Ford Focus Clutch Noise

[TheChief]

Hi all

Two weeks ago I became the now notsoproud owner of a 2015 Focus
estate 1.5 ecoboost (petrol), to replace my 2009 Ford Focus
estate 1.8 diesel.

Although I am generally very happy with the purchase, I have
noticed an unwanted noise very occasionally when setting off,
particularly when starting on an upward incline.

The noise is something like a mechanical hoot, that's the best way
I can describe it. One problem is that it is so intermittent
that it will be difficult to demonstrate to the dealer wot sold
it to me. It certainly occurs as power is transferred through
the operation of the clutch.

My understanding of clutch mechanisms dates back to in line
engines with spring plates, release bearings and friction disks.
The technology has probably changed completely since
then.

The noise I have heard did not sound like the old clutch slip of
yore which I remember as more of a screech.

Can anyone suggest the likely cause of this please?

I am very distrusting of garages (rightly or wrongly) so would
like to go with a list of possibilities that I can specifically
quiz them on when they claim to have "investigated" the
issue.

Many thanks

Phil




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[Chris Whelan]

Might be worth videoing it to show to the garage?

Chris

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Remove prejudice to reply.

[TheChief]

Chris Whelan <cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> Wrote in message:

Good call Chris

Might have to spend the majority of tomorrow pootling around to
catch the sound though!

Just need some pointers now on what might be causing this.

[MrCheerful]

The most likely cause is the spring cush drive in the friction plate,
the dual mass flywheel can also make the noise you describe. You can
force the noise by being a bit harsh on pull away.

[TheChief]

MrCheerful <g.odon...@yahoo.co.uk> Wrote in message:

Thanks Mr C

I've tried being harsh on pull away, even on an uphill, but don't
seem to be able to repeat the noise at will.
Have to try harder tomorrow!

I knew my old diesel had d m flywheel, but didn't realise they had
made their way into petrol vehicles.

Any idea of the likely cost of fixing each of these?

[MrCheerful]

This is likely the thick end of a thousand at a ford dealer and maybe
two hundred less at an independent place with pattern parts. The
groaning clutch problem may gone on for years without getting
significantly worse, so if it is not under guarantee 'let it develop'

[TheChief]

Thanks Mr C

The car is supposed to be covered by the dealer's 3 month warranty
and also has one year left on the manufacturer's
warranty.
If the dealer tries to wriggle out, how likely are Ford to sort this?
The car is 2 years old but only 12500 miles on it.

[Robin]

On 02/09/2017 20:15, Tim+ wrote:
>> The car is supposed to be covered by the dealer's 3 month warranty
>> and also has one year left on the manufacturer's
>> warranty.
>> If the dealer tries to wriggle out, how likely are Ford to sort this?
>> The car is 2 years old but only 12500 miles on it.
>>
>

> At that age/mileage it f*cking well ought to be covered by
> warranty. Sadly European warranties suck compared to US
> ones.
You'd need to check the precise terms of the warranty on that car at
the time it was sold but Ford's base warranty generally provides:

"Note: Brake pads, brake shoes, brake discs,
clutch disc and any other friction
components are not covered when
replacement is due to wear and tear."

So when it's more than 6 months old the burden of proof is on the owner
to show it's not wear and tear.

Similar provision is made in US warranties.

12,500 miles is indeed low for a clutch. But we don't _know_ the pv
owner didn't consider neutral to be something to be used only at the
beginning and end of a journey.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

[Ted]

Sale of goods act. Reject the car as unfit.

[TheChief]

Ted <edwardcu...@btinternet.com> Wrote in message:

Doubt that would hold water, as the car does exactly what it
should, just occasionally makes unwanted noise.

[Ted]

Which indicates a fault.



> Phil
>

[Robin]

On 02/09/2017 21:18, Ted wrote:
>
>>> Sale of goods act. Reject the car as unfit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Doubt that would hold water, as the car does exactly what it
>>   should, just occasionally makes unwanted noise.
>>
>
> Which indicates a fault.
>

You may be right but if the dealer disagrees what _evidence_ of that
would the OP be able to offer a court? Do you know - without even
hearing the noise - that an expert witness would agree?

NB

The OP should bear in mind that the in the "small claims expert evidence
is an exception, you have to ask the court for permission to use one,
and you may not be able to recover the full cost of paying one. But
that just about exhausts my knowledge so seek better advice if you get
that far.

[Ted]

Would the dealer be able to refute there is an intermittent fault which
is causing a noise?

I had a year old company car (MKII Escort) once which made a noise every
so often. Dealer (Main Ford) couldn't find the problem.

Found out quite by accident that the gear lever boot gaiter was lifting
up and allowing engine noise into the car.

The dealer claimed no fault and the shop manager paid the bill but I'm
fucked if I would have especially as it was claimed the car had just had
a service.

[Fredxxx]

On 02/09/2017 15:45, TheChief wrote:

On a very old Ford Cortina, it was the thrust bearing that was making
this type of noise, but generally only in the cold.

Can you confirm this noise only occurs when there is 'slippage'?

[TheChief]

Fredxxx <fre...@nospam.com> Wrote in message:

Hi Fred

I am not noticing slippage. Also I would expect the noise to be
far more frequent from the release bearing.
I've had those fail before and the noise I experienced was more
whirring.

I'm going to try to post an audio file of the problem in a "part
2" thread.

[Fredxxx]

I meant, does the noise occur when the clutch is being slipped, or it
after the slip has stopped.

> I've had those fail before and the noise I experienced was more
> whirring.
>
> I'm going to try to post an audio file of the problem in a "part
> 2" thread.

I have listened to the recording and it's a characteristic resonance
caused by some excitation. It sounds reminiscent of the noise I heard,
albeit under very different conditions. Do you feel anything on the
clutch? If not then Mr Cheerful has as just a good explanation as any.

Has this Focus got a Concentric Slave Cylinder?

Sometimes the weirdest thing can give seeming strange symptoms.

On one occasions I got a vibration at 40-45mph, a low frequency
resonance. I was convinced it was the propshaft. Took it off and had it
checked. Then took the diff apart, saw a blued bearing, even though it
was full of oil. Replaced the bearing. In the end someone suggested I
remove/move a roof bar. Problem solved.

I had put roofbars on for a ladder which I lugged around for a few
weeks. Of course the problems started when I took the ladder off but I
didn't tumble.

[Ted]

On 03/09/2017 20:01, Fredxxx wrote:

>
> I have listened to the recording and it's a characteristic resonance
> caused by some excitation.

My thoughts too. Does the noise stop if the clutch is depressed?

[TheChief]

Hi Fred

The noise occurs as part of the slipping/power take up process and
will stop if the clutch is redepressed.
It also stops once the clutch is fully released.
So it is only heard during the set off from stationary.
Not sure whether vibration was transmitted back through the pedal.
Will have to concentrate on that next time it happens.

No idea about the concentric slave cylinder to be honest.

[Fredxxx]

You mean by placing pressure on the pedal the noise continues?

> It also stops once the clutch is fully released.

I thought you said the noise was during heavy load, whilst taking up the
slip.

Does the noise only occur during slip? You said there was noticeable
slippage but the whole point of the clutch is to 'slip'.

> So it is only heard during the set off from stationary.

So the initial takeup of slip. If you maintain pressure on the pedal
does it still make a noise.

I'm trying (badly) to ascertain if the noise only occurs during slip.

> Not sure whether vibration was transmitted back through the pedal.

Most clutch, flwheel and some engine bearing issues can be felt on the
clutch pedal.

> Will have to concentrate on that next time it happens.
>
> No idea about the concentric slave cylinder to be honest.

Just a thought as the 'feel' would be more direct, and the mass of the
thrust bearing assembly much lighter.

[MrCheerful]

Everything now has a concentric slave, but noise from them is less
likely than the thrust bearings of old.

[MrCheerful]

It may even have the new type of self adjusting clutch, goodness knows
what problems those will have.

[TheChief]

The noise occurs in first gear, as the clutch pedal is lifted and
I make the transition from clutch pedal full to the floor and

clutch pedal with no foot pressure at all. Effectively the
noise occurs through the bite point (or bite phase) of the clutch
pedal operation. I have tried to "ride" the clutch through this
process and the noise duration is extended a little.

As noted earlier, I did not fully focus on the pedal "feel" so
can't confirm whether vibration was returning to me via that
route, though in hindsight I believe it probably
was.

[MrCheerful]

that is when creaking clutch noise I am familiar with would appear, but
I have never heard it so extended as it is in your recording.

[Harry Bloomfield]

MrCheerful brought next idea :

> It may even have the new type of self adjusting clutch, goodness knows what
> problems those will have.

Could this simply be a creaking clutch pedal pivot? Only creaks when
released slowly, not when released faster as you would once rolling.

My car does it (not a Focus), a quick spray of WD40 cures it - when I
can be bothered.

[TheChief]

Harry Bloomfield <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> Wrote in message:

I'll check that out this morning Harry, but I'm 99% certain that
is not the cause unfortunately.

[rp]

On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 22:59:55 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

>Could this simply be a creaking clutch pedal pivot? Only creaks when
>released slowly, not when released faster as you would once rolling.
>
>My car does it (not a Focus), a quick spray of WD40 cures it - when I
>can be bothered.

Wouldn't it be better with a spray of oil instead of wax?

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and built in 5 years;
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[Peter Hill]

> Phil
>
>
>
>

Sounds like you have a humpback whale in your clutch and it's singing to
you.

Is this just first use of the day or does it do this after the first
time you pull off in the morning?

Could be a brake releasing.