T55 bolt stuck: Citroen c3, help!
Fred
You may remember I was asking about brake discs for the front of my
car. Well I managed to change the n/s without problems but when I
moved to the o/s I have got stuck. To save me the embarrassment of
having to get it towed to a garage please help!
The caliper is screwed on with two T55 bolts. These are stuck solid.
The car is jacked up on an axle stand. The problem is that the bolts
are on the back, facing away from you, which means it is not possible
to use a long lever because it would hit the wheel arch. I think if
the car was over a pit or lifted high on the ramps they use in a
garage, it might be easier to access the bolt and apply some force.
Any ideas what to do?
Interestingly haynes says you need to replace the bolts. I asked the
dealer about this and they have never heard of anyone doing this and
have never ordered the bolts in. IIRC Haynes says there is threadlock
on them. Is this why I can't move them?
On the other side they moved quite easily; I don't know why this side
is being so awkward. As far as I am aware, the discs are the
originals, so they should not have been touches by anyone.
Is penetrating oil going to help? I didn't like to use it so near to
the brakes. I think I am going to have to flood the bleed nipple with
oil because that is stuck too.
TIA
Mrcheerful
Penetrating oil won't help, heat would. Undo the nipple with the caliper
bolted on and a good quality socket, preferably with a T handle.
I did this exact job on a Picasso the other day. First off remove the bolt
you can, turn the steering to get max access. Check that the torx bit will
go right to the bottom of the bolt, some torx bits have a round nose that it
may well help to grind off flat, hammer the torx bit into the bolt, now you
need to do two things at the same time, turn the torx bit the right way AND
lever the caliper holder in the same direction, the caliper holder can only
move a few millimeters but that is enough to persuade the bolt to start
moving, after that there will be little difficulty undoing it the rest of
the way. New bolts is always a good idea and usual manfr. recommendations
on safety grounds, but I wouldn't be scared of re-using the old ones since
99.9 per cent of the time they are just put back, there is threadlock on new
ones, there will be some left on yours.
Chris Bartram
> Fred wrote:
>> IIRC Haynes says there is threadlock
>> on them. Is this why I can't move them?
>>
No, the correct threadlock should be shiftable with hand tools.
>
> Check that the torx bit will
> go right to the bottom of the bolt, some torx bits have a round nose that it
> may well help to grind off flat, hammer the torx bit into the bolt,
That's very good advice- Torx, allen or spline bolts usually only round
out if you use crap tools or there's dirt in the socket so the tool
doesn't fit properly.
> New bolts is always a good idea and usual manfr. recommendations
> on safety grounds, but I wouldn't be scared of re-using the old ones since
> 99.9 per cent of the time they are just put back, there is threadlock on new
> ones, there will be some left on yours.
>
>
The replacement bolt thing is usually because of the threadlock. The
manufacturer specifies new bolts with the correct locking compound on:
If reusing them I'd be tempted to get some low-strength threadlock on,
though I'm sure many don't bother. I'd get the bolts if they are in
stock, for peace of mind. If not, use threadlock.
Duncan Wood
PLus by the time you've sworn at them this much the head will be
knackered. Really walloping the bit in helps a lot!
Adrian
were saying:
> The car is jacked up on an axle stand. The problem is that the bolts are
> on the back, facing away from you, which means it is not possible to use
> a long lever because it would hit the wheel arch.
Have you tried putting a bit of steering lock on...?
Fred
wrote:
>Penetrating oil won't help, heat would.
When I got fed up of getting nowhere fast, I came indoors, posted my
message, and had a rest from it. A friend phoned and he suggested heat
too but I was reluctant to do that because there is a rubber gaiter
close by. Would a soldering mat like you use for plumbing help protect
the plastic? It seems counterintuitive to use heat; I would have
expected it to make the bolt expand and bed tighter.
Anyway, after an hour or so I went back outside and by adopting a
"press up" position, I was able to put enough weight on my arm to
finally move it.
The suggestions to turn the steering would have helped enormously; why
did I never think of that? I'll remember that for next time.
>go right to the bottom of the bolt, some torx bits have a round nose that it
>may well help to grind off flat, hammer the torx bit into the bolt
Without looking I'm not sure of the shape of it but I suspect it may
be rounded. I'm sure part of the problem was that there seemed to be a
bit of play in it. So I just need to grind it to a square edge? I
never thought of helping it in with a hammer: another good idea for
next time.
By the way, when removing the discs what hammer do you use? I used a
mallet, the idea being that it wouldn't damage the discs so if it all
went wrong I could put everything back together and drive for help.
However that didn't do the mallet any favours. If you are confident
there won't be problems can you hit it with a club hammer? I'm
thinking it will come off quicker with a heavier blow?
> New bolts is always a good idea and usual manfr. recommendations
>on safety grounds, but I wouldn't be scared of re-using the old ones since
>99.9 per cent of the time they are just put back, there is threadlock on new
>ones, there will be some left on yours.
I hadn't heard that before but I am an amateur ;)
Curiously the Citroen dealer had not heard of it either, which is why
I never bought any from him. I suppose could get him to order some
and change them over one afternoon.
The bolts looked very clean and had some blue on the end, which I
guess was the compound. If re-using, as I have done, is it best to
leave alone or should I have added more thread lock? If so which? The
other reply implied there were different grades to use.
Thanks everyone for your fast replies.
Chris Bartram
> By the way, when removing the discs what hammer do you use?
As big a fuck-off metal one as I have. I've never failed to get discs
off so I take the view that I don't care if they get a bit bent on the
way off.
Mrcheerful
A large copper hammer is the nicest for the job of removal.
Heat works on really stuck bolts, it almost seems to give a lubricant effect
at really high temps.
Mostly any threadlock will be fine, but I would not panic about not adding
any more to what was left, a new set of bolts would not hurt and could
easily be added at a later date.
Conor
Bartram says...
>
> Fred wrote:
>
> > By the way, when removing the discs what hammer do you use?
>
> As big a fuck-off metal one as I have.
Indeed. I constantly piss myself laughing watching people braying the
shit out of something with a friggin claw hammer when one tap with a
5lb lump hammer would have done the job.
A claw hammer is meant for joinery and building work and should stay
there.
--
Conor
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams
Willy Eckerslyke
> In article <WNXVl.38026$OO7....@text.news.virginmedia.com>, Chris
> Bartram says...
>> Fred wrote:
>>
>>> By the way, when removing the discs what hammer do you use?
>> As big a fuck-off metal one as I have.
>
> Indeed. I constantly piss myself laughing watching people braying the
> shit out of something with a friggin claw hammer when one tap with a
> 5lb lump hammer would have done the job.
>
> A claw hammer is meant for joinery and building work and should stay
> there.
Oh I dunno, it can be very useful for pushing back brake caliper
pistons. The claws are often just the right width to fit at an angle
between the protruding parts of the brake pads. Then swinging the handle
levers them back in a nice controlled way.
Fred
wrote:
>A large copper hammer is the nicest for the job of removal.
I think you were right, I should have used a metal hammer rather than
my mallet because there's not much mallet left now ;)
I find that discs sometimes need a bit of three-in-one sprayed to
loosen them because they rust on but a few whacks with a hammer and
there are off soon enough. I think, though I know some will disagree,
the tiniest amount of copper grease on the new ones might help to
prevent this next time.
It was silly of me really. I didn't want to whack the discs with a big
hammer so that I could keep the old discs on and drive the car if
something went wrong, but of course something did go wrong: the bolt
got stuck and having the old discs in pristine condition didn't help
with that. Like you say, nothing should go wrong removing the discs,
so next time I'll use a heavier hammer and get the job done quicker.
BTW, any reason it has to be copper?
>Mostly any threadlock will be fine, but I would not panic about not adding
>any more to what was left, a new set of bolts would not hurt and could
>easily be added at a later date.
I didn't add any but since the bottom of the bolt had an inch of blue,
I assume it has enough left on from before. I will order some new ones
to change another day, just in case they have been rounded out by my
efforts.
Thanks again everyone.
Mrcheerful
A copper mallet is nice to use for many reasons, the danger from flying
fragments is reduced, the grip of the copper reduces the likelihood of
bouncing off and hitting anything else, no danger from sparks. Just a nice
tool for the job all round.
rich
news:IH6Wl.38179$OO7....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
hammer. A shot hammer or leather-faced hammer good too.
Fred
wrote:
>A copper mallet is nice to use for many reasons, the danger from flying
>fragments is reduced, the grip of the copper reduces the likelihood of
>bouncing off and hitting anything else, no danger from sparks. Just a nice
>tool for the job all round.
I had heard that copper didn't spark. I didn't know that it didn't
bounce (why?). When you say less likely to cause fragments, is that
fragments from the hammer or fragments from the disc? Why is that?
Whatever the reasons, Ill add one to my shopping list for next time.
Thanks again.
Mrcheerful
The copper acts as a crumple zone and deforms around the harder steel of the
disc. For the same reason the risk of bits of disk coming off is less, the
bits of copper that do come off seem to be much less violent than steel.
The grippy effect means less bounce/rebound. Once you have one, a copper
hammer becomes the hammer of choice for most engineering tasks.