VW Touran rear fog light
Tim Downie
pretty sure it has as there seems to be a bulb onn both sides but only one
of them is lighting up and the bulb failure warning light has come on.
Trouble is, it's not the bulb. :-( Is there a recognised failure point in
the wiring for these things? I did have to replace the brake light bulb on
the same side a week ago but was careful not to pull on any wires and there
are no obvious loose connections.
Could it pass an MOT with just one rear fog light or do they both have to
work if fitted?
Tim
Adrian
like they were saying:
Wild guess - the working one's on the driver's side?
The other side probably isn't wired up.
Mrcheerful
provided that the working one is on the driver's side then it would not fail
the mot. if it has worked in the past then the first check is that you have
actually changed the correct bulb and replaced it with a working one of the
correct type. I would check this by having a powered fly lead that I can
poke in the bulb live connector or wire and see that it actually lights in
situ. Many UK vehicles only actually have the wiring for one brake light
yet have bulb holders for two, so if the RH one works I would not worry too
much.
Tim Downie
> Tim Downie wrote:
>> One of the rear fog lights on my Touran has died (06 reg). At least,
>> I'm pretty sure it has as there seems to be a bulb onn both sides but
>> only one of them is lighting up and the bulb failure warning light
>> has come on.
>> Trouble is, it's not the bulb. :-( Is there a recognised failure
>> point in the wiring for these things? I did have to replace the
>> brake light bulb on the same side a week ago but was careful not to
>> pull on any wires and there are no obvious loose connections.
>>
>> Could it pass an MOT with just one rear fog light or do they both
>> have to work if fitted?
>>
>> Tim
>
> provided that the working one is on the driver's side then it would
> not fail the mot.
Alas it is the driver side one that's not working.
> if it has worked in the past then the first check
> is that you have actually changed the correct bulb and replaced it
> with a working one of the correct type. I would check this by having
> a powered fly lead that I can poke in the bulb live connector or wire
> and see that it actually lights in situ. Many UK vehicles only
> actually have the wiring for one brake light yet have bulb holders
> for two, so if the RH one works I would not worry too much.
I assume you meant fog light rather than brake light there. I've swapped
bulbs around with known working ones and the socket is definitely dead.
Tim
Adrian
like they were saying:
>> provided that the working one is on the driver's side then it would not
>> fail the mot.
> Alas it is the driver side one that's not working.
Ah.
Then it's time to have a prod about with a multimeter.
Chris Whelan
This is likely to be a multiplexed vehicle, so prod carefully...
Chris
--
Remove prejudice to reply.
Mrcheerful
yes, I intended fog !
If the left one works then it may be possible to temporarily just take a
lead from the wiring on the left to power the right hand one, I realise this
will leave the bulb warning light on, but it would pass an MoT. My guess is
that it is likely to be something silly such as bulb holder or wiring
connector fault close to the lamp.
Tim Downie
Yep. It's beginning to look like one of those small problems that's going
to be expensive to fix.
I don't really know how the multiplexing works but it does odd things if you
remove a bulb "live" and then replace it. The replaced bulb won't work until
the lights are turned off and then on again.
I'm wondering if it might be a computer fault. Does that sound possible?
Certainly the wiring looks sound and the plug to the light is well seated
(and re-seated).
Next question, main dealer or auto-electrician? I live in Ayr, SW Scotland
if anyone has any recommendations.
Tim
Tim Downie
"Mrcheerful" <nbk...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:M4Hhp.135799$ts7.1...@newsfe14.ams2...
That has crossed my mind!
> My guess is that it is likely to be something silly such as bulb holder or
> wiring connector fault close to the lamp.
Doesn't seem to be bulb holder or wiring connector fault and the wiring
*looks* good. This is turning out to be a bit of a pain. :-(
Tim
Adrian
like they were saying:
> Doesn't seem to be bulb holder or wiring connector fault and the wiring
> *looks* good. This is turning out to be a bit of a pain. :-(
Thought... Does it have a towbar?
Tim Downie
"Adrian" <tooma...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8uouoe...@mid.individual.net...
Yes it does have a detachable bar (which is current detached) and standard
trailer single electrics (7 pin socket). If it was a fault with the wiring
of that I would expect both fog lights to be knocked out though if the fault
was mimicking trailer electrics being plugged in.
Adrian
like they were saying:
>>> Doesn't seem to be bulb holder or wiring connector fault and the
>>> wiring *looks* good. This is turning out to be a bit of a pain. :-(
>> Thought... Does it have a towbar?
> Yes it does have a detachable bar (which is current detached) and
> standard trailer single electrics (7 pin socket). If it was a fault
> with the wiring of that I would expect both fog lights to be knocked out
> though if the fault was mimicking trailer electrics being plugged in.
Depends how the towbar's been wired...
Rob
You sure that its gone
I think there is one fog and the other reversing.??
Chris Whelan
Multiplexing uses a single electrical feed to a local electronic module,
which then distributes out to a number of items. A signal wire from an
ECU tells the electronics which output to turn on. (The signal wire can
carry two-way traffic, so can report back if a circuit isn't drawing
current, for example. This is how bulb failure alarm works.)
I've had a quick look at Autodata, but it has no wiring diagrams or
relevant component locations for your vehicle - sorry.
In your case, if you can check back for a voltage (using a meter or test
lamp) from the bulb holder contacts, through any connectors, to the
electronic module, then you will have done all an amateur can do. If
there is no output from the module, then module failure is a strong
possibility.
I personally would not entrust this type of work to an auto-electrician
unless they came recommended; if no one has any other suggestions, I can
only sympathise with the need to use a main dealer.
Adrian
much like they were saying:
> Multiplexing uses a single electrical feed to a local electronic module,
> which then distributes out to a number of items. A signal wire from an
> ECU tells the electronics which output to turn on.
Another thought...
Could the ECU have had a brain-fart and gone into "LHD tail-lights" mode?
Chris Bartram
> Chris Whelan wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 11:23:09 +0000, Adrian wrote:
>>
>>> "Tim Downie" <timdow...@yahoo.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding
>>> much like they were saying:
>>>
>>>>> provided that the working one is on the driver's side then it would
>>>>> not fail the mot.
>>>
>>>> Alas it is the driver side one that's not working.
>>>
>>> Ah.
>>>
>>> Then it's time to have a prod about with a multimeter.
>>
>> This is likely to be a multiplexed vehicle, so prod carefully...
>
> Yep. It's beginning to look like one of those small problems that's
> going to be expensive to fix.
>
> I don't really know how the multiplexing works but it does odd things if
> you remove a bulb "live" and then replace it. The replaced bulb won't
> work until the lights are turned off and then on again.
>
> I'm wondering if it might be a computer fault. Does that sound possible?
It is possible, yes, as you say, the lights can do weird things with CAN
cars like yours (or my Leon). I recently had my front bumper off, which
means disconnecting the foglamp, and the warning light was stubborn
until the DTC was cleared.
> Certainly the wiring looks sound and the plug to the light is well
> seated (and re-seated).
>
Broken wire at the plug, if you've tugged the wire a bit? Cables in
current VAG looms are quite thin, and the plugs very securely held on.
> Next question, main dealer or auto-electrician? I live in Ayr, SW
> Scotland if anyone has any recommendations.
>
> Tim
>
Get VCDS on it, if you can. I know it sounds OTT, but the Central
Electronics will give you a clue.
Chris Bartram
I wondered that- but I would it still throw the DTC for a failed bulb?
Chris Bartram
Tim Downie
Um, as it normally has two rear fog lights, I'm not sure why RHD or LHD is
relevant.
Tim
Tim Downie
> On 21/03/11 12:05, Tim Downie wrote:
>> Chris Whelan wrote:
>>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 11:23:09 +0000, Adrian wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Tim Downie" <timdow...@yahoo.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding
>>>> much like they were saying:
>>>>
>>>>>> provided that the working one is on the driver's side then it
>>>>>> would not fail the mot.
>>>>
>>>>> Alas it is the driver side one that's not working.
>>>>
>>>> Ah.
>>>>
>>>> Then it's time to have a prod about with a multimeter.
>>>
>>> This is likely to be a multiplexed vehicle, so prod carefully...
>>
>> Yep. It's beginning to look like one of those small problems that's
>> going to be expensive to fix.
>>
>> I don't really know how the multiplexing works but it does odd
>> things if you remove a bulb "live" and then replace it. The replaced
>> bulb won't work until the lights are turned off and then on again.
>>
>> I'm wondering if it might be a computer fault. Does that sound
>> possible?
>
> It is possible, yes, as you say, the lights can do weird things with
> CAN cars like yours (or my Leon). I recently had my front bumper off,
> which means disconnecting the foglamp, and the warning light was
> stubborn until the DTC was cleared.
Would disconnecting the battery clear it or would that open up a whole new
can of worms? ;-)
>
>> Certainly the wiring looks sound and the plug to the light is well
>> seated (and re-seated).
>>
>
> Broken wire at the plug, if you've tugged the wire a bit? Cables in
> current VAG looms are quite thin, and the plugs very securely held on.
Well I do try not to be too cack-handed when changing bulbs but it's not
impossible. The thing is, the feed to the fog light is the 3rd one (of six)
in a line in the plug and I would have thought that it would be the end
wires that would be the most likely to get strained and potentially broken.
Tim
Tim Downie
No idea. It wasn't fitted by the main dealer but by a local agent they
recommended. Same towbar but half the price of the VW one.
Tim
Chris Bartram
radio code (???)
Chris Bartram
something. Ask at one or more of the VAG forums.
Adrian
like they were saying:
>> Another thought...
>>
>> Could the ECU have had a brain-fart and gone into "LHD tail-lights"
>> mode?
> Um, as it normally has two rear fog lights, I'm not sure why RHD or LHD
> is relevant.
Do they? I've seen the "But it's safer to only have one" bollocks so many
times that it really wouldn't surprise me if VAG were actually fitting
everything for two but telling the computer to only use one...
Adrian
like they were saying:
>>>>> Thought... Does it have a towbar?
>>>> Yes it does have a detachable bar (which is current detached) and
>>>> standard trailer single electrics (7 pin socket). If it was a fault
>>>> with the wiring of that I would expect both fog lights to be knocked
>>>> out though if the fault was mimicking trailer electrics being plugged
>>>> in.
>>> Depends how the towbar's been wired...
>> Hmm.. good point. Does it have the pukka VAG harness and CAN
>> controller?
> No idea. It wasn't fitted by the main dealer but by a local agent they
> recommended. Same towbar but half the price of the VW one.
The same bar, p'raps - but they all have to pick up on the same points
anyway. The wiring kit is often sold separately from the bar, though.
Chris Bartram
Do you know, that may actually be the case. I've heard of people
enabling the other one on this platform with no mention of fitting a
bulb. Mind, if the ECU had dropped into LHD, it might not bother testing
the RH bulb. Don't know for sure.
I'm not convinced "But it's safer to only have one" bollocks is bollocks
though, but that's only IMO.
Adrian
much like they were saying:
> I'm not convinced "But it's safer to only have one" bollocks is bollocks
> though, but that's only IMO.
Perhaps if manufacturers didn't put fog lights so damn close to brake
lights... (and don't even start me on front indicators and headlights!)
Or if they remembered that there have been three brake lights for over a
decade...
Chris Bartram
> Chris Bartram<ne...@delete-me.piglet-net.net> gurgled happily, sounding
> much like they were saying:
>
>> I'm not convinced "But it's safer to only have one" bollocks is bollocks
>> though, but that's only IMO.
>
> Perhaps if manufacturers didn't put fog lights so damn close to brake
> lights... (and don't even start me on front indicators and headlights!)
>
inside brake lights' like the current Passat.
> Or if they remembered that there have been three brake lights for over a
> decade...
Good point, but also 'if people didn't use fogs in the rain' :-)
I do find the 'sea of red lights' dazzling at times.
Adrian
much like they were saying:
>>> I'm not convinced "But it's safer to only have one" bollocks is
>>> bollocks though, but that's only IMO.
>> Perhaps if manufacturers didn't put fog lights so damn close to brake
>> lights... (and don't even start me on front indicators and headlights!)
> Heh. With you on that, and my car is as bad as any. See also 'indicators
> inside brake lights' like the current Passat.
Good point, well made.
>> Or if they remembered that there have been three brake lights for over
>> a decade...
> Good point, but also 'if people didn't use fogs in the rain' :-)
Well, yes, but we can't blame the manufacturers for the stupidity of the
users...
Mrcheerful
it would be relatively easy to add a sensor that turned them off once a car
was at a suitable distance, after all there is only any point showing a fog
light when you cannot see the car behind you.
Adrian
they were saying:
>>> Good point, but also 'if people didn't use fogs in the rain' :-)
>> Well, yes, but we can't blame the manufacturers for the stupidity of
>> the users...
> it would be relatively easy to add a sensor that turned them off once a
> car was at a suitable distance, after all there is only any point
> showing a fog light when you cannot see the car behind you.
It'd be even easier for the driver to learn how to drive properly...
Mrcheerful
that is not the direction that cars (and everything else) is going. The
responsibility and skill of driving has been superceded by making almost
everything automatic thus requiring less attention to get a reasonable
result.
Adrian
they were saying:
>>>>> Good point, but also 'if people didn't use fogs in the rain' :-)
>>>> Well, yes, but we can't blame the manufacturers for the stupidity of
>>>> the users...
>>> it would be relatively easy to add a sensor that turned them off once
>>> a car was at a suitable distance, after all there is only any point
>>> showing a fog light when you cannot see the car behind you.
>> It'd be even easier for the driver to learn how to drive properly...
> that is not the direction that cars (and everything else) is going.
Depressing, isn't it?
> The responsibility and skill of driving has been superceded by making
> almost everything automatic thus requiring less attention to get a
> reasonable result.
The problem is that all the fripperies are automatic (albeit fallibly
so), but the really important stuff is still manual. And that's damn near
the worst possible combination for encouraging driver responsibility.
Duncan Wood
wrote:
> Chris Whelan wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 11:23:09 +0000, Adrian wrote:
>>
>>> "Tim Downie" <timdow...@yahoo.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding
>>> much like they were saying:
>>>
>>>>> provided that the working one is on the driver's side then it would
>>>>> not fail the mot.
>>>
>>>> Alas it is the driver side one that's not working.
>>>
>>> Ah.
>>>
>>> Then it's time to have a prod about with a multimeter.
>>
>> This is likely to be a multiplexed vehicle, so prod carefully...
>
> Yep. It's beginning to look like one of those small problems that's
> going to be expensive to fix.
>
> I don't really know how the multiplexing works but it does odd things if
> you remove a bulb "live" and then replace it. The replaced bulb won't
> work until the lights are turned off and then on again.
>
> I'm wondering if it might be a computer fault. Does that sound possible?
The usual answer occurs, yes the fault is that you've got a VAG & not a
copy of VCDS. Realistically it's going to be the holder, harness or if
you're unlucky the module.
> Certainly the wiring looks sound and the plug to the light is well
> seated (and re-seated).
>
> Next question, main dealer or auto-electrician? I live in Ayr, SW
> Scotland if anyone has any recommendations.
>
> Tim
>
Independent VW specialist or an autoelectrician.
Tim
It's been all downhill since self-cancelling indicators were invented.
Tim
Mrcheerful
ignition by spark plug surely?
Adrian
were saying:
> It's been all downhill since self-cancelling indicators were invented.
It's odd you should mention that - I much prefer non-self cancelling...
Tim
Me too. Learned to drive in a Renault 4.
Tim
Mrcheerful
the ones that are truly awful are the ones in later Vectras. I expect they
are fine, when you are used to them, but for someone that does not drive one
all the time they are very frustrating.
Adrian
they were saying:
>>>> It's been all downhill since self-cancelling indicators were
>>>> invented.
>>> It's odd you should mention that - I much prefer non-self
>>> cancelling...
>> Me too. Learned to drive in a Renault 4.
> the ones that are truly awful are the ones in later Vectras. I expect
> they are fine, when you are used to them, but for someone that does not
> drive one all the time they are very frustrating.
When I had a rentaGolf a couple of years ago, after the first journey in
it I spent some time rummaging through the "setup menu" (ffs) to figure
out how to turn the frigging "comfort indicators" off. Nudge the stalk,
three flashes. Except by the time they stopped, you'd gone "Shit, I've
turned 'em on" and nudged it back the other way. Three flashes the other
way. Rinse, repeat.
Chris Bartram
turn it off with VCDS.
Tim Downie
Golly I'd forgotten that my Touran had those too. I got that turned off at
the first service. What an appalling idea they were.
Tim
SteveH
> > When I had a rentaGolf a couple of years ago, after the first journey in
> > it I spent some time rummaging through the "setup menu" (ffs) to figure
> > out how to turn the frigging "comfort indicators" off. Nudge the stalk,
> > three flashes. Except by the time they stopped, you'd gone "Shit, I've
> > turned 'em on" and nudged it back the other way. Three flashes the other
> > way. Rinse, repeat.
> My Fabia had that. Fucking maddening, it was, and on that, you had to
> turn it off with VCDS.
Although I miss them now I have a car without them - they're great for
mindless, cruise-controlled motorway slogs.
--
SteveH
Tim Downie
In which case it should be user selectable for that purpose (like cruise
control), not imposed on you all the time. Fecking dangerous most of the
rest of the time IMO.
Tim
SteveH
> > Although I miss them now I have a car without them - they're great for
> > mindless, cruise-controlled motorway slogs.
>
> In which case it should be user selectable for that purpose (like cruise
> control), not imposed on you all the time. Fecking dangerous most of the
> rest of the time IMO.
I don't know how true this is, but a German colleague told me that it's
illegal to give fewer than 3 flashes before a lane change on the
Autobahn, which is why VAG have implemented the feature.
--
SteveH
David
>
> Although I miss them now I have a car without them - they're great for
> mindless, cruise-controlled motorway slogs.
I've had them on a few cars, and found them fine.
David
On BMWs, you can set them to flash once, or three times.
Tim
But how about giving three flashes in the wrong direction inadvertently and
then being unable to cancel the effing thing?
Spawn of bloody Satan that system is...
Tim
David
>
> But how about giving three flashes in the wrong direction inadvertently and
> then being unable to cancel the effing thing?
>
> Spawn of bloody Satan that system is...
>
> Tim
Push the stalk in the same direction to turn off the indicators, as one
did to activate them.
No confusion.
Adrian
>> But how about giving three flashes in the wrong direction inadvertently
>> and then being unable to cancel the effing thing?
>>
>> Spawn of bloody Satan that system is...
> Push the stalk in the same direction to turn off the indicators, as one
> did to activate them.
Oh, well, that's _so_ intuitive...
David
>
>> Push the stalk in the same direction to turn off the indicators, as one
>> did to activate them.
>
> Oh, well, that's _so_ intuitive...
Are you being dry, again... ;-)
Its worked on the (approx) 9 cars that have had that system I have (so
far) driven.
John Williamson
Click on the start button to shut down?
Early Citroen BX, can't beat it. A chunky rocker switch that falls
nicely to the finger while turning the wheel both ways.
--
Tciao for Now!
John.
Chris Bartram
Adrian
much like they were saying:
> Early Citroen BX, can't beat it. A chunky rocker switch that falls
> nicely to the finger while turning the wheel both ways.
Try a CX, especially an s1.
John Williamson
The same part as the BX, as far as I can see.
The self cancelling on my Land Rover doesn't work. Well, not since I
adjusted it so the wheel that drives the reset doesn't make contact with
the steering wheel any more......
Adrian
much like they were saying:
>>> Early Citroen BX, can't beat it. A chunky rocker switch that falls
>>> nicely to the finger while turning the wheel both ways.
>> Try a CX, especially an s1.
> The same part as the BX, as far as I can see.
Ah, but the rest of the PRN - Pluie, Route, Nuit - ergonomic concept in
its purest form. Without that godawful Lego Star Trek s1 BX dash...
<hides, as jihad now probably out from certain quarters>
Clint Sharp
<nbk...@hotmail.co.uk> writes
>
>the ones that are truly awful are the ones in later Vectras. I expect they
>are fine, when you are used to them, but for someone that does not drive one
>all the time they are very frustrating.
lot and they are also fitted to late model Astras too.
>
>
--
Clint Sharp
Tim Downie
Whatever, it seems to be fixed which is a relief.
Tim
Tim
I was out for a drive today when the fecking bulb failure light came on
again. I was not a happy man! I thought lots of evil thoughts about the
shysters who cocked up the repair yesterday.
Needless to say, when I pulled over to check my lights it was a completely
different bulb that had blown. Silent apologies mumbled in the direction
of the repairers... ;-)
Tim