MOT fail on wheelbearing
Dave Plowman (News)
It's not noisy and doesn't show in driving. Having looked at the various
MOT sites I can't find a definition of 'excessive play'. So what is it?
My SD1 workshop manual gives the amount of free play they specify - but it
has adjustable taper bearings.
So is it *any* free play detected by hand?
--
*If you don't pay your exorcist you get repossessed.*
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Adrian
much like they were saying :
> So is it *any* free play detected by hand?
Tester's opinion.
Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot
> My BMW 528 has just failed on 'excessive play in front wheel bearing'
> It's not noisy and doesn't show in driving. Having looked at the
> various MOT sites I can't find a definition of 'excessive play'. So
> what is it?
>
> My SD1 workshop manual gives the amount of free play they specify -
> but it has adjustable taper bearings.
>
> So is it *any* free play detected by hand?
Have you jacked it up and given it a wobble, Dave? Is it one of those wot
can be adjusted up a bit?
Si
John Greystrong
> My BMW 528 has just failed on 'excessive play in front wheel bearing'
> It's not noisy and doesn't show in driving. Having looked at the various
> MOT sites I can't find a definition of 'excessive play'. So what is it?
>
> My SD1 workshop manual gives the amount of free play they specify - but it
> has adjustable taper bearings.
>
> So is it *any* free play detected by hand?
Nope, at least that's not what I was taught on my MOT testers course
last year. However 'excessive' is so vague that you'll probably get
nowhere complaining. Our instructor was of the opinion that 'excessive'
meant the wheel was likely to fall off in the next few weeks, his
favourite saying was if the vehicle managed to drive to the MOT station
it should probably pass. It's all about minimum standards and not
servicing standards.
John
Adrian
> his favourite saying was if the vehicle managed to drive to the MOT
> station it should probably pass
Where's he work? I think I need to go see him.
John Greystrong
<g> His opinion was there was should be a lot more pass and advise. Too
many testers are using standards that they would on a car they were
servicing rather than the minimum standards set by VOSA.
John
reg
"John Greystrong" <john.gr...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:sntGf.56245$0N1....@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
same advise i got as well, we need to take off our servicing hat & put our
MOT hat on, we need to issue more PANDA's, but not on some of the bag's of
shite ive seen come through lately !!
Cicero
"John Greystrong" <john.gr...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:sntGf.56245$0N1....@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
==============
The new computerised Test Certificate (VT20) has a box entitled "Advisory
Notice Issued". It seems clear that the intention is to offer advice about
potential problems rather than failing cars on minor defects. I think that
slight play in a wheel bearing should come under this heading.
Another interesting item in the investigation section is that concerning
accident damage. Mine showed up as having serious accident damage but the
only actual damage has been a dented nearside wing. I think that this is
likely to generate some heated arguments about what constitutes 'serious
damage' especially as it is likely to affect the resale value of a car.
Cic.
reg
"Cicero" <shel...@hellfire.co.uk> wrote in message
news:HJtGf.17202$wl.1...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
the " serious" accident marker is only viewable on the VT40 ( checklist)
top right corner, its to aid the tester, to alert him to any damage serious
or not, the customer doesn't receive this checklist & its not printed on any
other paperwork that the customer receives.
in fact I had one today with a serious damage marker, I talked to the
customer about it & the only damaged the car had sustained was a front end
bump, I guess its all interested parties i.e. insurance companies, dvla all
talking together now, which in one respect is good.
reg
put all the details in thats required and it will show the pass, fail or
advises that were issued to the vehicle your inquiring about.
Mike G
"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4df61a7...@davenoise.co.uk...
> My BMW 528 has just failed on 'excessive play in front wheel bearing'
> It's not noisy and doesn't show in driving. Having looked at the various
> MOT sites I can't find a definition of 'excessive play'. So what is it?
>
> My SD1 workshop manual gives the amount of free play they specify - but it
> has adjustable taper bearings.
>
> So is it *any* free play detected by hand?
When new, non adjustable wheel bearings have virtually no play. It usually
takes many thousands of miles before any play becomes easily noticed. It
could be argued that at that point the bearing should be replaced.
I would to agree with that, even though the bearing could last for many more
thousands of miles before it actually started to break up. Maybe the
examiner thaught the same.
Ball bearing races, like the non adjustable types fitted to many front
axles, indeed ball bearings, do not tolerate any noticeable play, unlike the
taper roller bearings fitted to an SD1.
Taper roller bearings have a greater contact area, so can take heavier
loads, and easily cope with play or preloading, which would overstress a
ball bearing.
Mike.
Dave Plowman (News)
at the top of the wheel or whatever.
My experience of worn wheel bearings is they go noisy first - but can
still pass an MOT. Not that they're quiet but have too much play - unless
adjustable. Any sites that give definitive guidelines?
--
*If they arrest the Energizer Bunny, would they charge it with battery? *
Mike G
> Interesting that no one has given a definitive answer - like 3mm movement
> at the top of the wheel or whatever.
>
> My experience of worn wheel bearings is they go noisy first - but can
> still pass an MOT. Not that they're quiet but have too much play - unless
> adjustable. Any sites that give definitive guidelines?
Maybe there isn't one. It's hard to define a small amount of play that might
just be felt, but is too small to be accurately measured. A very little play
might be the only guideline given to MOT inspectors for ball race front
wheel bearings. In that case it would depend on the examiners judgement, but
how much is very little?
You say it failed on 'excessive play' but how much play has the wheel
bearing actually got?
As for a noisy bearing, that should be a fail every time IMO. It's the
first sign of a bearing breaking up.
Of course you could always try taking it somewhere else. :-)
Mike.
Baker@nowhere.com Dave Baker
Mike G <met...@lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
news:43ea7ae4$0$1451$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
> When new, non adjustable wheel bearings have virtually no play. It usually
> takes many thousands of miles before any play becomes easily noticed. It
> could be argued that at that point the bearing should be replaced.
> I would to agree with that, even though the bearing could last for many
more
> thousands of miles before it actually started to break up. Maybe the
> examiner thaught the same.
>
> Ball bearing races, like the non adjustable types fitted to many front
> axles, indeed ball bearings, do not tolerate any noticeable play, unlike
the
> taper roller bearings fitted to an SD1.
> Taper roller bearings have a greater contact area, so can take heavier
> loads, and easily cope with play or preloading, which would overstress a
> ball bearing.
> Mike.
Oh dear, I think we need a wheel bearing 101 here. Most wheel bearings on
modern cars, especially fwd cars, are not ball bearings but taper roller
bearings whether they be the "torque them up to 150 ft lbs plus" type or the
"hand tighten them and stick a split pin through the axle" type. Neither
type run with any preload.
The difference is that the torque them up type have two sets of rollers
facing opposite ways in each sealed unit with a factory fitted shim between
the inner races which sets the free play. When you heave on that socket bar
with a length of scaffold pole over it you aren't tightening the bearings at
all, you're just transmitting the clamping force through the front bearing
and its shim down the axle to the back bearing unit, through its shim and on
to the rear of the hub. The free play in each bearing is factory set by its
shim and when the wheel starts to rock the only cure is a new bearing. The
double sealed type generally have to be press fitted into the wheel hub.
The hand tighten type of bearing is also a taper roller but with only one
set of rollers in each unit. The rollers will come staked into a plastic or
metal cage on the inner cone and the outer cone will be a separate piece.
You tighten those to maybe 20 ft lbs while rotating the wheel and then back
off a tad until the split pin fits through the axle into the nearest hole in
the nut cage. That gives the bearing its free play which the sealed double
type gets from its internal shim. You can regrease and readjust these to
eliminate wheel rock provided the rollers and cones are still in good
condition. You can ignore any car specific tightening specs as being gospel
because the aim is only to get a small amount of free play and there are
many ways to achieve this.
Ball bearings are now pretty rare. You'll generally only find them on a live
rear axle on an old rwd car like Capris and Escorts. They will also be
lightly hand tightened like the single taper roller type.
Modern FWD cars will normally have sealed shimmed double taper roller units
on the front and single adjustable taper roller units on the back. Modern
RWD cars will tend to be the reverse. However there are no strict rules and
a designer can put either type in at either end.
So both types of taper roller bearings and also ball bearings will have the
same amount of free play at the wheel rim when they are new and properly
adjusted. This free play is minimal. A couple of mm at most, ideally less.
Ideally the free play will be as close to zero as possible while still
allowing the bearing some slack which it needs to operate correctly without
overheating. 'NO' type of wheel bearing has preloading even if you think it
must have because you have to do the hub nut up very tight. Any bearing that
started life with a heavy preload would burn itself out in no time flat.
So on to the MOT requirements. A bad bearing will usually give itself away
by displaying roughness or rumbling as you turn the wheel. Free play doesn't
necessarily mean the bearing is bad unless it's a double sealed type. Even
then it could be a good bearing with a shim that's a bit too thin. However
to set a wheel rock limit would be nigh on impossible because of the
different types of bearing and the variation in wheel rim diameters. It's
something that has to be left to the tester's discretion and that means
sometimes a good bearing will get failed and a bad one passed.
I hope this has dispelled some myths or misinformation about how bearings
work. I know that a lot of people think that some types of bearing need a
heavy preload whereas others need free play when in fact all types need free
play. If only I knew as much about boilers as I do about cars (in joke for
Mr P).
--
Dave Baker
Baker@nowhere.com Dave Baker
Dave Baker <Dave Ba...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:43eafa21$0$27792$6d36...@titian.nntpserver.com...
> So on to the MOT requirements. A bad bearing will usually give itself away
> by displaying roughness or rumbling as you turn the wheel. Free play
doesn't
> necessarily mean the bearing is bad unless it's a double sealed type. Even
> then it could be a good bearing with a shim that's a bit too thin.
Edit - a shim that's a bit too thick.
--
Dave Baker
Zzzzzz......
I then took my car to a non-garage MOT centre that does no reapris.. no
faults.
Worth trying a non-repair MOT centre?
"Mike G" <met...@lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
news:43eab3bb$0$1448$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
Mike G
"Dave Baker" <Dave Ba...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:43eafa21$0$27792$6d36...@titian.nntpserver.com...
>
> news:43ea7ae4$0$1451$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
> > When new, non adjustable wheel bearings have virtually no play. It
usually
> > takes many thousands of miles before any play becomes easily noticed. It
> > could be argued that at that point the bearing should be replaced.
> > I would to agree with that, even though the bearing could last for many
> more
> > thousands of miles before it actually started to break up. Maybe the
> > examiner thaught the same.
> >
> > Ball bearing races, like the non adjustable types fitted to many front
> > axles, indeed ball bearings, do not tolerate any noticeable play, unlike
> the
> > taper roller bearings fitted to an SD1.
> > Taper roller bearings have a greater contact area, so can take heavier
> > loads, and easily cope with play or preloading, which would overstress a
> > ball bearing.
> > Mike.
>
> Oh dear, I think we need a wheel bearing 101 here. Most wheel bearings on
> modern cars, especially fwd cars, are not ball bearings but taper roller
> bearings whether they be the "torque them up to 150 ft lbs plus" type or
the
> "hand tighten them and stick a split pin through the axle" type. Neither
> type run with any preload.
I wasn't suggesting that front wheel bearings were fitted with preload, only
that in some applications taper roller bearings are.
> The difference is that the torque them up type have two sets of rollers
> facing opposite ways in each sealed unit with a factory fitted shim
between
> the inner races which sets the free play.
The same can apply when the wheel bearings are supplied as matched set of 2
side and thrust ball bearings, without a spacer by the bearing manufacturer.
Such a pair of bearings are fitted to my Celica GT4 front axle.
The 2 inner races are torqued together by the axle nut. with the outer races
a press fit in the hub.
When you heave on that socket bar
> with a length of scaffold pole over it you aren't tightening the bearings
at
> all, you're just transmitting the clamping force through the front bearing
> and its shim down the axle to the back bearing unit, through its shim and
on
> to the rear of the hub.
The same as for when they are a pair of matched ball bearings without shim
or spacer.
The free play in each bearing is factory set by its
> shim and when the wheel starts to rock the only cure is a new bearing.
At least we agree on that. :-)
Mike.
Adrian
like they were saying :
> Interesting that no one has given a definitive answer - like 3mm movement
> at the top of the wheel or whatever.
Because there isn't one.
"Excessive" is in the tester's opinion.
Conor
Greystrong says...
> Adrian wrote:
> > John Greystrong (john.gr...@ntlworld.com) gurgled happily, sounding
> > much like they were saying :
> >
> >
> >>his favourite saying was if the vehicle managed to drive to the MOT
> >>station it should probably pass
> >
> > Where's he work? I think I need to go see him.
>
> <g> His opinion was there was should be a lot more pass and advise.
Especially on blown bulbs, wiper blades, horns, broken numberplates etc
etc.
--
Conor,
Same shit, different day.
Conor
> Worth trying a non-repair MOT centre?
>
Always.
Chris Bacon
> [ concerning free play in taper roller bearings ]
Very good, and well done.
AOL.
If taper roller bearings have no play, they will quickly become fsck'd.
The recommended amount always used to be "just perceptible (SP? I've
been at it) rim rock. If it's 3mm, on a car wheel, I'd say it's
"excessive".
Tim Anderson
Damn, didn't realise that and just looked up mine that failed today
hoping it would tell me where the rust was that it failed on and it
although it doesn't tell me (handy that eh?) does this message mean that
now you can't test for things that are wrong early to give you chance to
fix it?
Warning: All passes for this vehicle have expired.
There are no later tests for this vehicle.
From what I gather, that means I can't use the car now until it's
passed another MOT even though it was MOT'd till June
Stephen Chalmers
Conor wrote:
> > <g> His opinion was there was should be a lot more pass and advise.
>
> Especially on blown bulbs, wiper blades, horns, broken numberplates etc
> etc.
>
>
Which naturally the owner would repair diligently as soon as he got
home.....or not.
--
S.C.
Stephen Chalmers
Mike G wrote:
> When you heave on that socket bar with a length of scaffold pole over it
Is there anyone still doing that? With the availability of low-cost 12V
(corded) impact wrenches and hub nut sized impact sockets, that
particular nightmare should be a thing of the past.
Around UKP 20 on ebay including P&P, and no need to have anyone
standing on the brakes or whatever.
--
S.C.
John Greystrong
> reg wrote:
>
>> and dont forget you can go here http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/html/home.html
>> put all the details in thats required and it will show the pass, fail or
>> advises that were issued to the vehicle your inquiring about.
>>
>>
>
> Damn, didn't realise that and just looked up mine that failed today
> hoping it would tell me where the rust was that it failed on and it
> although it doesn't tell me (handy that eh?) does this message mean that
> now you can't test for things that are wrong early to give you chance to
> fix it?
>
> Warning: All passes for this vehicle have expired.
> There are no later tests for this vehicle.
It may be the current MOT wasn't from a computerised station?
>
> From what I gather, that means I can't use the car now until it's
> passed another MOT even though it was MOT'd till June
No. The old MOT is still valid. You are driving an unroadworthy
(according to the law in case that thread starts again) vehicle but then
again so are lots of people. It just happens in this case you're more
aware of the fact.
John
Mike G
"Stephen Chalmers" <igno...@lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1139530633.9...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I have one, and whilst they are useful for undoing wheel nuts, dismantling
etc, IME they are incapable of reaching the high torque figures needed for
most front driveshaft nuts.
BTW your reply should have been directed at Dave Baker. I didn't make the
comment you queried.
Mike.
Dave Plowman (News)
I took the car to AMC in Garret Lane who are the local BMW specialist. On
leaving it with them they said these things are to a certain extent a
matter of judgment, and it's easy to confuse wheel bearing wear with other
things. (I'm not so sure on that one, IMHO. ;-))
Now I know the common thing to wear first is the bottom balljoints on
these cars, and often at the sort of mileage that mine's done, but this
shows up as wheel wobble at speed, and mine doesn't.
They've just phoned up. No wear or play anywhere - apart from a *tiny*
amount on one inner track rod end swivel - the one on the rack. Not a fail
and not likely to need relacment for another 50,000 miles (their words).
The other fails were rear brake pads worn to less than 1.5 mm thick.
They're all better than 3mm.
Parking brake lever has no reserve. Rubbish, says the specialist.
Advisory. Both read discs worn. Within maker's tolerance says the
specialist.
They're going to MOT it and change the brake fluid as the 'clock' symbol
on the dash indicates. For 75 quid.
Sound I complain to VOSA? I've used the same MOT place many times before,
but it's changed hands recently. And they did quickly offer to do the work
needed after it failed...
A wheel bearing change costs about 300 quid on this car and it's not a
common failure. Chances are they'd have claimed to 'adjust' it.
I'm first going to phone them and ask for my money back. I'll post the
result.
--
*Keep honking...I'm reloading.
Baker@nowhere.com Dave Baker
> An update.
>
> I took the car to AMC in Garret Lane who are the local BMW specialist. On
> leaving it with them they said these things are to a certain extent a
> matter of judgment, and it's easy to confuse wheel bearing wear with other
> things. (I'm not so sure on that one, IMHO. ;-))
>
> Now I know the common thing to wear first is the bottom balljoints on
> these cars, and often at the sort of mileage that mine's done, but this
> shows up as wheel wobble at speed, and mine doesn't.
>
> They've just phoned up. No wear or play anywhere - apart from a *tiny*
> amount on one inner track rod end swivel - the one on the rack. Not a fail
> and not likely to need relacment for another 50,000 miles (their words).
>
> The other fails were rear brake pads worn to less than 1.5 mm thick.
> They're all better than 3mm.
>
> Parking brake lever has no reserve. Rubbish, says the specialist.
>
> Advisory. Both read discs worn. Within maker's tolerance says the
> specialist.
>
> They're going to MOT it and change the brake fluid as the 'clock' symbol
> on the dash indicates. For 75 quid.
>
> Sound I complain to VOSA? I've used the same MOT place many times before,
> but it's changed hands recently. And they did quickly offer to do the work
> needed after it failed...
I certainly would. The rear brake pad wear at least is a matter of
measurement not opinion so that should be a cut and dried matter for VOSA.
So should the brake disk thickness. Sounds like a very poor MOT station.
Adrian
much like they were saying :
> They're going to MOT it
Why not get them to MOT it anyway?
> Sound I complain to VOSA?
Too late. They'd want to inspect the car, but if you've now had the work
done...
> I've used the same MOT place many times
> before, but it's changed hands recently. And they did quickly offer to
> do the work needed after it failed...
Aha...
BMW driver = clueless but far from skint.
> I'm first going to phone them and ask for my money back. I'll post the
> result.
Please record the call and post the MP3/WAV...
Adrian
like they were saying :
>> Warning: All passes for this vehicle have expired.
>> There are no later tests for this vehicle.
> It may be the current MOT wasn't from a computerised station?
I'd say that was the very likely cause.
>> From what I gather, that means I can't use the car now until it's
>> passed another MOT even though it was MOT'd till June
> No. The old MOT is still valid. You are driving an unroadworthy
> (according to the law in case that thread starts again) vehicle but
> then again so are lots of people.
Is he? I missed seeing the list of points it'd failed on in his post.
Dave Plowman (News)
> Why not get them to MOT it anyway?
'Cause the other place does a free re-test within 5 days.
> > Sound I complain to VOSA?
> Too late. They'd want to inspect the car, but if you've now had the work
> done...
But they haven't done anything, as nothing was needed...
> > I've used the same MOT place many times
> > before, but it's changed hands recently. And they did quickly offer to
> > do the work needed after it failed...
> Aha...
> BMW driver = clueless but far from skint.
They've obviously never come across an Aberdonian one. ;-)
> > I'm first going to phone them and ask for my money back. I'll post the
> > result.
> Please record the call and post the MP3/WAV...
They're going to refunded the fee. But couldn't 'get to the bottom of the
matter as the actual tester isn't in today'.
--
*Happiness is seeing your mother-in-law on a milk carton
Dave Plowman (News)
Dave Baker <Dave Ba...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > Sound I complain to VOSA? I've used the same MOT place many times
> > before, but it's changed hands recently. And they did quickly offer to
> > do the work needed after it failed...
> I certainly would. The rear brake pad wear at least is a matter of
> measurement not opinion so that should be a cut and dried matter for
> VOSA. So should the brake disk thickness. Sounds like a very poor MOT
> station.
Sad in that I've used them for many years on both cars. But discovered the
business changed hands a few months ago.
--
Chris Bolus
wrote:
There are still planty of nuts that need the scafford pole treatment - I
have a really big compressor and air impact guns, but I still find some
that need the 4 foot scaffold pole to crack.
--
Regards, Chris (Please take out my car to reply by email)
----1961 Austin A40 Farina----1966 Triumph Herald Estate---
---1967 Riley Elf---1965 Hillman Minx---1969 Morris Minor--
-1972 Mini Clubman estate--1957 Standard 8--1979 Ford Capri
--------1966 Triumph 1300 FWD-----1978 Mini 1000-----------
********** Please don't email in HTML! **********
Mike G
> In article <43ecaca5$0$27805$6d36...@titian.nntpserver.com>,
> Dave Baker <Dave Ba...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > > Sound I complain to VOSA? I've used the same MOT place many times
> > > before, but it's changed hands recently. And they did quickly offer to
> > > do the work needed after it failed.
Well, that's one way of getting business.
> > I certainly would. The rear brake pad wear at least is a matter of
> > measurement not opinion so that should be a cut and dried matter for
> > VOSA. So should the brake disk thickness. Sounds like a very poor MOT
> > station.
>
> Sad in that I've used them for many years on both cars. But discovered the
> business changed hands a few months ago.
Sounds like they now have an incompetent examiner.
Maybe one previously employed by Kwik-Fit. :-)
Mike.
Dave Plowman (News)
Mike G <met...@lycos.co.uk> wrote:
> > Sad in that I've used them for many years on both cars. But discovered
> > the business changed hands a few months ago.
> Sounds like they now have an incompetent examiner.
They have 4 qualified testers.
> Maybe one previously employed by Kwik-Fit. :-)
Incompetence is one thing. Stinks to me of fraud.
--
*Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
Baker@nowhere.com Dave Baker
> In article <43ecd168$0$9248$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>,
> Mike G <met...@lycos.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Sad in that I've used them for many years on both cars. But discovered
> > > the business changed hands a few months ago.
>
> > Sounds like they now have an incompetent examiner.
>
> They have 4 qualified testers.
>
> > Maybe one previously employed by Kwik-Fit. :-)
>
> Incompetence is one thing. Stinks to me of fraud.
Like the local garage that MOT'd my Sierra 18 or so years ago. I was still
doing accountancy work back then with the engine design more as a hobby and
dropped the car off in the morning wearing a suit which I guess they took as
meaning rip-off fodder. Came to pick it up in the evening and the bastard
said it passed but there's an extra £15 charge for adjusting the headlights
and the idle mixture. Bear in mind the whole MOT was only £20 or so then. I
went effing ballistic, told the guy what I actually did for a living,
exactly how long each of those adjustments took which is basically 30
seconds per headlight and maybe a minute to tweak an idle screw and that
there was nothing wrong with either anyway.
Then he got very shamefaced and said they were only trying to help rather
than have to fail it and how about £7. I thought how about my boot up your
effing arse and a complaint to the MOT standards people about unauthorised
repair work which I bet they tried on with every private customer who came
through the door and didn't look too mechanically minded. I paid it though
rather than have a huge fight and he still had my car keys behind the
counter. Never been back there though and as it's only a mile up the road
they've done themselves out of 18 more MOT's in the years since.
--
Dave Baker
Tim Anderson
> John Greystrong (john...@ntlworld.com) gurgled happily, sounding much
> like they were saying :
>
>>> Warning: All passes for this vehicle have expired.
>>> There are no later tests for this vehicle.
>
>> It may be the current MOT wasn't from a computerised station?
>
> I'd say that was the very likely cause.
Bing! Suddenly all makes sense :) I can confirm that the old MOT was
from the old school.
>>> From what I gather, that means I can't use the car now until it's
>>> passed another MOT even though it was MOT'd till June
>
>> No. The old MOT is still valid. You are driving an unroadworthy
>> (according to the law in case that thread starts again) vehicle but
>> then again so are lots of people.
>
> Is he? I missed seeing the list of points it'd failed on in his post.
I think so, it actually failed on two patches of corrosion jacking point
and floor in the back, it's getting done next Fri anyhow so nothing that
going to cause problems, but I assume that now the computerised stuff
has come in that although it would have voided the current MOT that now
it is that much easier to check :(
Oh well, looks like I wont be bothering to MOT my other car so early.....
Guy King
from "Dave Baker" <Dave Ba...@nowhere.com> contains these words:
> Never been back there though and as it's only a mile up the road
> they've done themselves out of 18 more MOT's in the years since.
This is the bit that amazes me. Do these wankers not understand that a
happy customer will return again and again but one that feels ripped off
will stay away and do his best to make sure others do as well?
I know I've posted it before, but this seems appropriate...
http://www.compfused.com/directlink/1127/
--
Skipweasel
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
Stu
news:43ecea74$0$8573$6d36...@titian.nntpserver.com:
> Bear in mind the whole MOT was only £20 or so then.
>
>
'Then'? Blimey - where do you live? I paid £20 for an MOT last month!
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Mike G
> In article <43ecd168$0$9248$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>,
> Mike G <met...@lycos.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Sad in that I've used them for many years on both cars. But discovered
> > > the business changed hands a few months ago.
>
> > Sounds like they now have an incompetent examiner.
>
> They have 4 qualified testers.
>
> > Maybe one previously employed by Kwik-Fit. :-)
>
> Incompetence is one thing. Stinks to me of fraud.
Certainly seems fishy.
Makes one wonder if the original garage would have charged for replacing the
bearing without doing anything apart from maybe cleaning the area to suggest
the axle had been worked on.
The MOT inspectors in the garage I've been using for many year's seems to
play fair.
I've never had occasion to disagree with the failure points they've found.
My BM failed last November for a leaking rear shock. The previous year he'd
given it an advisory, so this years failure was not unexpected. I'd even
baught a pair of shocks, but hadn't got round to fitting them.
Might be an idea to look for an MOT only testing station.
AIUI some VOSA council testing stations are open to the public. They
certainly wouldn't be interested in failing vehicles to get work. :-)
Mike
Chris Bolus
>
>I think so, it actually failed on two patches of corrosion jacking point
>and floor in the back, it's getting done next Fri anyhow
Hope you trust the person doing the welding, as IME most "mot welding"
is shite. My sister had someone do her Ka - bloke recommended by the
garage (Ha!) - and it failed again. She brought it to me, and after
cleaning it and seaming it properly, I also did a second 2" patch that
hadn't even been touched. It passed the next time (though like a fool
she took it to a different garage who found different things to fail it
for...)
Chris Bolus
>"Dave Baker" <Dave Ba...@nowhere.com> wrote in
>news:43ecea74$0$8573$6d36...@titian.nntpserver.com:
>
>> Bear in mind the whole MOT was only £20 or so then.
>>
>>
>'Then'? Blimey - where do you live? I paid £20 for an MOT last month!
>
So you were lucky. I know of a garage that advertises £25 MOTs, but the
norm is £40ish. The places that do cheap MOTs are usually those that
make money out of the consequential repairs. The MOT-only station that I
use hasn't failed any of my 5 running cars for about 3 years.
Tim Anderson
> On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 19:51:24 +0000, Tim Anderson <s...@t.com> wrote:
>
>
>> I think so, it actually failed on two patches of corrosion jacking point
>> and floor in the back, it's getting done next Fri anyhow
>
> Hope you trust the person doing the welding, as IME most "mot welding"
> is shite. My sister had someone do her Ka - bloke recommended by the
> garage (Ha!) - and it failed again. She brought it to me, and after
> cleaning it and seaming it properly, I also did a second 2" patch that
> hadn't even been touched. It passed the next time (though like a fool
> she took it to a different garage who found different things to fail it
> for...)
Nope, don't trust him, never had welding done to a car before so didn't
know anybody who could do it, don't even know what I should be paying...
it's a 50p sized hole at the back with clean metal round it (already
prepped the area for him and the one at the front is a patch about 2"
long by 1" wide.... he reckons £75
Chris Bolus
>long by 1" wide.... he reckons Ł75
Sounds bloody expensive to me. I'd expect invisible butt welds for that!
If it really is clean metal and accessible it's an hour's work, tops. In
the case of my sister's Ka(k) I had to unhook the exhaust, clean off the
underseal that the previous prat had put on without priming first, and
grind out in a fairly tight spot, and it still only took me a morning.
Stu
news:r80qu1hn7vu79luff...@4ax.com:
> On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 14:26:45 -0600, Stu <nos...@thanks.com> wrote:
>
>>"Dave Baker" <Dave Ba...@nowhere.com> wrote in
>>news:43ecea74$0$8573$6d36...@titian.nntpserver.com:
>>
>>> Bear in mind the whole MOT was only £20 or so then.
>>>
>>>
>>'Then'? Blimey - where do you live? I paid £20 for an MOT last month!
>>
> So you were lucky. I know of a garage that advertises £25 MOTs, but the
> norm is £40ish. The places that do cheap MOTs are usually those that
> make money out of the consequential repairs. The MOT-only station that I
> use hasn't failed any of my 5 running cars for about 3 years.
£25 was the going rate around here until very recently, when they all
switched to the new computerised system. It has now risen to £40
everywhere. 18 years ago, I would have expected the price to be half of
that (half of £20, that is), but I suppose it depends where you live.
Perhaps the prices in my area are driven by good old-fashioned Yorkshire
tight-fistedness :-)
Regarding the price of honesty, I have 2 local test centres and have used
both a few times, as have others who I know. The dearer (£25) one is by far
the most inclined to fail a car and never issues advisories, whereas the
one who (until very recently) charged £20 is far more lenient, preferring
to pass a sound car with minor faults and issue an advisory note. I do
agree that many other establishments are far less honest, though.
--
Stu
Baker@nowhere.com Dave Baker
Tim Anderson <s...@t.com> wrote in message
news:43ed058e$0$29560$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
Struth. It'll take someone 10 or 15 minutes tops. Ł20 or Ł30 ought to be
plenty. It's the prep work that takes the time, not the welding. Ideally you
want to clean back to bright metal for 2" all round each hole because rust
has a nasty habit of spreading a lot further than you first think. If
there's any rust pits where the weld needs to go it'll blow right through
the old metal and then you need to start again with a bigger patch.
My intro to MIG welding came a few years ago when the MOT guy found a hole
in the inner wing of my vile, horrible but not particularly old Mk3 Fester.
Unfortunately when I took the plastic wheelarch liner out to have a look at
it the bloody rust spread for miles. I kept grinding back, finding another
paper thin bit or hole, grinding back more etc etc. I chased the rust all
the way down the inner wing and then it started to go up the passenger
footwell. Nightmare.
I already had a gasless (i.e. crappy) MIG which I bought years ago on the
basis it might come in handy one day and when I got a roundtuit I'd teach
myself how to use it. Trying to learn on crappy rusty car panels is really
getting thrown in at the deep end though but I got some offcuts of sheet
metal from a mate's workshop and got stuck in one day. Bent double under the
wheelarch, trying to hold the welder with one hand, the awful little plastic
face shield that MIG sets come with with the other and jamming the bits of
new plate into place with mole grips and bits of wood and screwdrivers
wedged against the outer wing. Not fun especially when you really have no
clue what you're doing.
I ended up plating about 18 inches along that bloody inner wing, constantly
blowing holes right through the old metal, fiddling aimlessly with the
current and feed rate on the welder and slapping more sheet over those. Aim
for a sizzling bacon sound says the manual. Yeah right, under a wheelarch in
the middle of winter freezing my nuts off any bloody sound that sticks two
bits of thin rusty metal together without blowing them into molten scrap
will do me under the circumstances.
Then I found a structural turret which the suspension bolts to was pretty
bad as well which is not good news. No way of really repairing it properly
so I disguised it and beefed it up as best I could with scraps of plate
stuck round it and covered the lot with thick coats of hammerite. I also
fixed a torn driveshaft gaitor which the guy had missed during the MOT and
then went back there hoping to god he didn't look too closely at my godawful
pigeon shit welds or the dodgy turret although the wheelarch liner hid a lot
of it.
He already knew I was in the trade in some capacity or other although he
wouldn't have realised I was an engine designer with close to zero skills in
body repair. Anyway I fired straight off about how much work the bloody job
had been and about the torn gaitor he'd missed so he'd realise I'd got stuck
into it properly and he must have just assumed I knew what I was doing
because he never even bothered to reinspect it. Just glanced at the car as
he walked past and filled in the pass cert. I kept as straight a face as I
could while he signed the cert and fecked off out of there as fast as
possible. Got that one last year out of the car and then next time round it
went off to the crusher.
At least on the bright side I was fairly beginning to get the hang of the
welder by the end of it. Never used it again since though and absolutely no
desire to ever have to. I just buy newer cars now.
--
Dave Baker
Chris Bolus
Ba...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>At least on the bright side I was fairly beginning to get the hang of the
>welder by the end of it. Never used it again since though and absolutely no
>desire to ever have to. I just buy newer cars now.
I learned to weld so that I could restore classic cars. I set myself
high standards on my first resto and by the time I'd done I could weld
in my sleep!
Now it's the first tool I think of when something needs repairing -
filler is just not even contemplated!
Last week I had the tracking done on my Omega. Now anyone who has done
the job will tell you they're bastards to do, so the tyre depot I use
charges more for doing them. As it happened the lad doing the job was an
ex-pupil of mine, and having checked them and ascertained they were too
tight for him to do, he suggested I free them off and come back.
I looked at the (cheapo) design, split the ball joints, unscrewed the
joints from the tube then got the welder out and welded ridges to the
tubes so that the garage boys could get some purchase with the grips!
Greased & reassembled, went back to get it adjusted. They were so
pleased that I'd made it so easy for them they knocked a tenner off the
price!
Adrian
they were saying :
>>> Bear in mind the whole MOT was only £20 or so then.
>>'Then'? Blimey - where do you live? I paid £20 for an MOT last month!
> So you were lucky. I know of a garage that advertises £25 MOTs, but the
> norm is £40ish. The places that do cheap MOTs are usually those that
> make money out of the consequential repairs. The MOT-only station that I
> use hasn't failed any of my 5 running cars for about 3 years.
The small village garage that does my tickets does 'em all for the local
BMW dealer, too - because they just won't even attempt 'em at that price.
£40 for 3/4hr of ramp time? HA!
Chris Bolus
Proabably the same reason why the Merc dealer uses the same test station
as me.
Dave Plowman (News)
Adrian <tooma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The small village garage that does my tickets does 'em all for the local
> BMW dealer, too - because they just won't even attempt 'em at that
> price. £40 for 3/4hr of ramp time? HA!
BMW dealers usually also farm out bodywork for the same reason - no
insurance company will pay their hourly rate.
My BMW specialist does a discount rate MOT for BMWs. ;-)
--
*Money isn‘t everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch
Baker@nowhere.com Dave Baker
> In article <Xns97669AA386B7Bad...@204.153.244.170>,
> Adrian <tooma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > They're going to MOT it
>
> > Why not get them to MOT it anyway?
>
> 'Cause the other place does a free re-test within 5 days.
>
> > > Sound I complain to VOSA?
>
> > Too late. They'd want to inspect the car, but if you've now had the work
> > done...
>
> But they haven't done anything, as nothing was needed...
>
> > > I've used the same MOT place many times
> > > before, but it's changed hands recently. And they did quickly offer to
> > > do the work needed after it failed...
>
> > Aha...
>
> > BMW driver = clueless but far from skint.
>
> They've obviously never come across an Aberdonian one. ;-)
I've just heard that my Focus has passed its MOT :) Well it certainly seemed
to be driving fine while I was out to the shops today in it.
It's so much nicer getting MOT's when they're done by a mate in Aberdeen
than a rip off merchant in the village. Ok so it's a bit inconvenient having
your MOT tester 500 miles away but ummm certain factors make this less of an
imposition than it might otherwise be :)
That's about all I'm going to say on a public forum.
--
Dave Baker
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Adrian
they were saying :
> I've just heard that my Focus has passed its MOT :) Well it certainly
> seemed to be driving fine while I was out to the shops today in it.
>
> It's so much nicer getting MOT's when they're done by a mate in
> Aberdeen than a rip off merchant in the village. Ok so it's a bit
> inconvenient having your MOT tester 500 miles away but ummm certain
> factors make this less of an imposition than it might otherwise be :)
Certain factors like not actually having to take the car to them?
> That's about all I'm going to say on a public forum.
Mmmm.
Baker@nowhere.com Dave Baker
Adrian <tooma...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns976862FD9929Bad...@204.153.244.170...
Heavens to betsy no. I umm just mean I can visit all my friends up there at
the same time. Cough.
Adrian
they were saying :
>> > It's so much nicer getting MOT's when they're done by a mate in
>> > Aberdeen than a rip off merchant in the village. Ok so it's a bit
>> > inconvenient having your MOT tester 500 miles away but ummm certain
>> > factors make this less of an imposition than it might otherwise be
>> > :)
>> Certain factors like not actually having to take the car to them?
>> > That's about all I'm going to say on a public forum.
>> Mmmm.
> Heavens to betsy no. I umm just mean I can visit all my friends up
> there at the same time. Cough.
Mmmm.