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Ford Focus Clutch Noise - Result
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TheChief
Sep 8, 2017, 3:42:48 PM9/8/17
to
Hi all
For those following the issues I have experienced with a low
mileage Focus Estate.....
Took the car to EvansHalshaw (Ford agent) in Hull for
diagnosis
and have been told that the very rare noise on hill
starts is called "clutch whoop".
The good news is that they have Ford's authority to change the
clutch under warranty.
Will be interesting to see if this rectifies the problem.
Phil
--
----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
For those following the issues I have experienced with a low
mileage Focus Estate.....
Took the car to EvansHalshaw (Ford agent) in Hull for
diagnosis
and have been told that the very rare noise on hill
starts is called "clutch whoop".
The good news is that they have Ford's authority to change the
clutch under warranty.
Will be interesting to see if this rectifies the problem.
Phil
--
----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
MrCheerful
Sep 8, 2017, 4:05:03 PM9/8/17
to
On 08/09/2017 20:42, TheChief wrote:
> Hi all
>
> For those following the issues I have experienced with a low
> mileage Focus Estate.....
>
> Took the car to EvansHalshaw (Ford agent) in Hull for
> diagnosis
> and have been told that the very rare noise on hill
> starts is called "clutch whoop".
>
> The good news is that they have Ford's authority to change the
> clutch under warranty.
>
> Will be interesting to see if this rectifies the problem.
>
> Phil
>
A full explanation is here, I hope a new clutch sorts it out
> Hi all
>
> For those following the issues I have experienced with a low
> mileage Focus Estate.....
>
> Took the car to EvansHalshaw (Ford agent) in Hull for
> diagnosis
> and have been told that the very rare noise on hill
> starts is called "clutch whoop".
>
> The good news is that they have Ford's authority to change the
> clutch under warranty.
>
> Will be interesting to see if this rectifies the problem.
>
> Phil
>
permanently, from searching clutch whoop it seems a lot of focuses have it.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ANfdCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA1548-IA18&lpg=PA1548-IA18&dq=clutch+whoop&source=bl&ots=gzqjJaPmRd&sig=qJ0Zc312EvEI8uoOJavJ1vCb7e4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjN-cytsJbWAhUkAcAKHQ6fDvsQ6AEIaTAK#v=onepage&q=clutch%20whoop&f=false
TheChief
Sep 9, 2017, 4:11:27 PM9/9/17
to
MrCheerful <g.odon...@yahoo.co.uk> Wrote in message:
Thanks Mr C
I had a conversation with
the garage technician when I took the
car in for diagnosis. I had not heard this whoop term before,
but from the way he was talking it isn't so unusual.
I was given the impression that if the problem turns out to the d
m flywheel when the gearbox is removed they will replace that
too.
Strangely he was talking about the one litre ecoboost engines
(mine's 1.5) having very slightly concave flywheels which sounds
weird.
Anyhow thanks again for the insight
I had a conversation with
the garage technician when I took the
car in for diagnosis. I had not heard this whoop term before,
but from the way he was talking it isn't so unusual.
I was given the impression that if the problem turns out to the d
m flywheel when the gearbox is removed they will replace that
too.
Strangely he was talking about the one litre ecoboost engines
(mine's 1.5) having very slightly concave flywheels which sounds
weird.
Anyhow thanks again for the insight
Peter Hill
Sep 10, 2017, 3:29:57 AM9/10/17
to
be an almost exclusively Ford problem.
TheChief
Sep 10, 2017, 5:27:54 AM9/10/17
to
Peter Hill <peter...@skyshacknospam.demon.co.uk> Wrote in message:
Hi Peter
Dead right. Looking through some previous Facebook posts it looks
like I have been lucky to get a replacement offered without
having to threaten court action.
Disappointingly there are stories of replacements failing in a
short time and the original issue returning.
This can't be a universal Focus issue or they wouldn't sell so
well and product recalls would abound. Just hope that whatever
they do fixes the problem "for good".
Dead right. Looking through some previous Facebook posts it looks
like I have been lucky to get a replacement offered without
having to threaten court action.
Disappointingly there are stories of replacements failing in a
short time and the original issue returning.
This can't be a universal Focus issue or they wouldn't sell so
well and product recalls would abound. Just hope that whatever
they do fixes the problem "for good".
Fredxxx
Sep 10, 2017, 10:05:35 AM9/10/17
to
hope that have a modified mechanical arrangement so the problem stays away.
T i m
Sep 10, 2017, 10:47:12 AM9/10/17
to
On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 15:05:19 +0100, Fredxxx <fre...@nospam.com> wrote:
<snip>
>Given that changing a clutch on a Focus is not a 5 minute affair, I just
>hope that have a modified mechanical arrangement so the problem stays away.
And if it doesn't, then what?
Personally ... if it was one of those 'they all do that sir' type
situations and the likelihood of a strip and replace <whatever> not
*guaranteed* to fix it, I might just live with it as part of the
character of the car (depending on how loud it was etc). ;-)
Assuming the OP took the car for a test drive and the sound has only
been noticed since, I'm guessing it isn't 'that' loud?
As I mentioned elsewhere, after having the clutch changed on the
Meriva I (and only me, till I pointed it out to others) noticed a
'different noise' when the clutch pedal was fully depressed. I *think*
(without going out to check) the noise has gone now ... ;-)
If it hasn't, it's masked by all the other little noises and rattles
that have come in over a few years of using it as a general purpose
vehicle to transport us and anything we need to move that will fit in
the back. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
<snip>
>Given that changing a clutch on a Focus is not a 5 minute affair, I just
>hope that have a modified mechanical arrangement so the problem stays away.
Personally ... if it was one of those 'they all do that sir' type
situations and the likelihood of a strip and replace <whatever> not
*guaranteed* to fix it, I might just live with it as part of the
character of the car (depending on how loud it was etc). ;-)
Assuming the OP took the car for a test drive and the sound has only
been noticed since, I'm guessing it isn't 'that' loud?
As I mentioned elsewhere, after having the clutch changed on the
Meriva I (and only me, till I pointed it out to others) noticed a
'different noise' when the clutch pedal was fully depressed. I *think*
(without going out to check) the noise has gone now ... ;-)
If it hasn't, it's masked by all the other little noises and rattles
that have come in over a few years of using it as a general purpose
vehicle to transport us and anything we need to move that will fit in
the back. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
TheChief
Sep 11, 2017, 3:53:13 PM9/11/17
to
T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> Wrote in message:
Hi Tim
If I had been told "they all do that sir" by the garage I bought
the car from, I would have thought they were trying to right
royally fob me off.
The sound is that loud to be clearly heard above the engine.
Recorded by er-indoors on her phone while I drove.
But, it only occurs under serious load like steep hill start, so
not heard in test drive.
Of course I will only know after the reclutch whether it was the
right decision to have it changed, but at least I will know how
it has been treated.
If it recurs I might try to get the d m flywheel replaced as the
next most likely cause, then drive joints, wheel
bearings....
How much of the car can I get replaced in its remaining year of
warranty... Hhmmmmm.
If I had been told "they all do that sir" by the garage I bought
the car from, I would have thought they were trying to right
royally fob me off.
The sound is that loud to be clearly heard above the engine.
Recorded by er-indoors on her phone while I drove.
But, it only occurs under serious load like steep hill start, so
not heard in test drive.
Of course I will only know after the reclutch whether it was the
right decision to have it changed, but at least I will know how
it has been treated.
If it recurs I might try to get the d m flywheel replaced as the
next most likely cause, then drive joints, wheel
bearings....
How much of the car can I get replaced in its remaining year of
warranty... Hhmmmmm.
T i m
Sep 12, 2017, 6:59:16 AM9/12/17
to
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 20:53:10 +0100 (GMT+01:00), TheChief
<x.phi...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>If I had been told "they all do that sir" by the garage I bought
> the car from, I would have thought they were trying to right
> royally fob me off.
Well, sure, if it wasn't true, but it seems that in this case there
may be some truth to it?
;-)
>But, it only occurs under serious load like steep hill start, so
> not heard in test drive.
So not a constant noise then.
and who knows what other issues are then created by that process?
Any work I can't do myself is done by a mate that has run his own
garage, on his own for over 40 years. Because the Meriva clutch
replacement requires the subframe to be dropped it's more than one
person (without the right kit) can easily do on their own so he farmed
it out to a bigger / local garage he uses for tyres, MOT's and such
things.
When I got it back there were some marks on the top of one wing that
I'm pretty sure weren't there before, a cable tie about to fall into
the alternator and a small ring spanner actually hanging out of the
electric fan housing. Later on I discovered a 'klonk from underneath
that my mate found to be an engine steady bar that hadn't been fully
tightened.
The thing is the price was good, they did it fairly quickly and I
didn't want to make it more difficult for my mate by making a big
issue out of any of it (especially as he earnt nothing out of it
himself).
So I guess what I am saying is that you could go out of the frying pan
and into the fire and whilst you may be willing and able to persevere
getting it all sorted, do you want to risk all of that (for that
noise), especially *if* there aren't very good odds that it *will*
make a difference?
consequences, 'as much of it as you can'. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
<x.phi...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>If I had been told "they all do that sir" by the garage I bought
> the car from, I would have thought they were trying to right
> royally fob me off.
may be some truth to it?
>
>The sound is that loud to be clearly heard above the engine.
> Recorded by er-indoors on her phone while I drove.
Ok. I could hear it also but can you hear it over the radio as well.
>The sound is that loud to be clearly heard above the engine.
> Recorded by er-indoors on her phone while I drove.
;-)
>But, it only occurs under serious load like steep hill start, so
> not heard in test drive.
>
>Of course I will only know after the reclutch whether it was the
> right decision to have it changed, but at least I will know how
> it has been treated.
True ... but, you then have a car where the clutch has been replaced
>Of course I will only know after the reclutch whether it was the
> right decision to have it changed, but at least I will know how
> it has been treated.
and who knows what other issues are then created by that process?
Any work I can't do myself is done by a mate that has run his own
garage, on his own for over 40 years. Because the Meriva clutch
replacement requires the subframe to be dropped it's more than one
person (without the right kit) can easily do on their own so he farmed
it out to a bigger / local garage he uses for tyres, MOT's and such
things.
When I got it back there were some marks on the top of one wing that
I'm pretty sure weren't there before, a cable tie about to fall into
the alternator and a small ring spanner actually hanging out of the
electric fan housing. Later on I discovered a 'klonk from underneath
that my mate found to be an engine steady bar that hadn't been fully
tightened.
The thing is the price was good, they did it fairly quickly and I
didn't want to make it more difficult for my mate by making a big
issue out of any of it (especially as he earnt nothing out of it
himself).
So I guess what I am saying is that you could go out of the frying pan
and into the fire and whilst you may be willing and able to persevere
getting it all sorted, do you want to risk all of that (for that
noise), especially *if* there aren't very good odds that it *will*
make a difference?
>
>If it recurs I might try to get the d m flywheel replaced as the
> next most likely cause, then drive joints, wheel
> bearings....
LOL ... ;-)
>If it recurs I might try to get the d m flywheel replaced as the
> next most likely cause, then drive joints, wheel
> bearings....
>
>How much of the car can I get replaced in its remaining year of
> warranty... Hhmmmmm.
Quite ... well, if you are willing to deal with any unwanted
>How much of the car can I get replaced in its remaining year of
> warranty... Hhmmmmm.
consequences, 'as much of it as you can'. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
MrCheerful
Sep 12, 2017, 7:34:02 AM9/12/17
to
to avoid) I reject those that show any signs of 'amateur' or poor
quality repairs, ie if I can easily see that things have been apart it
is a no-no.
T i m
Sep 12, 2017, 4:55:01 PM9/12/17
to
On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 12:33:58 +0100, MrCheerful
<g.odon...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
>> True ... but, you then have a car where the clutch has been replaced
>> and who knows what other issues are then created by that process?
>>
<snip>
>I reject those that show any signs of 'amateur' or poor
>quality repairs, ie if I can easily see that things have been apart it
>is a no-no.
And missing / wrong bolts or washers.
I'd much prefer to take on an un-tampered vehicle (car or bike) that
just needs some TLC than have to find all the bodges someone else has
done.
I was helping a bit with his old Kawasaki the other day and the rear
brake drum arm was sticking on. We dropped the rear wheel out and
cleaned and lubed stuff but I noticed the sprocket side spacer didn't
seem to be the right diameter, not big enough to fit the seal? The
inner bearing was a sealed type so no real panic but my feeling were
that if the spacer was the wrong diameter, was it the right thickness?
If it was the correct spacer for that bike, had the wheels been
changed from stock?
If he buys a new seal and spacer, would it be the same as there now or
the right one?
Mind you, we have just been there with the number plate lights for
daughters 2004 Connect. I bought a pair of genuine lights (to fit the
new hd lamps), without looking at the van and was sent the wrong thing
(two individual lamps). On her van there is a black cowl that runs
over the both number plate lights and the lights have little windows
that slide and then pivot open to access the lamps. Googling about I
find we are not alone with the confusion and it seems that they were
only fitted for some of 2004 or to some models or somesuch? I've been
looking at lots of Connects of late and the only one I can remember
looking like hers is another 2004 model down our road. ;-)
But then aren't Ford know for fitting whatever is in the parts bin at
the time. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
<g.odon...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
>> True ... but, you then have a car where the clutch has been replaced
>> and who knows what other issues are then created by that process?
>>
>
>When asked to look at secondhand cars for other people (something I try
>to avoid)
(Me too)
>When asked to look at secondhand cars for other people (something I try
>to avoid)
>I reject those that show any signs of 'amateur' or poor
>quality repairs, ie if I can easily see that things have been apart it
>is a no-no.
I'd much prefer to take on an un-tampered vehicle (car or bike) that
just needs some TLC than have to find all the bodges someone else has
done.
I was helping a bit with his old Kawasaki the other day and the rear
brake drum arm was sticking on. We dropped the rear wheel out and
cleaned and lubed stuff but I noticed the sprocket side spacer didn't
seem to be the right diameter, not big enough to fit the seal? The
inner bearing was a sealed type so no real panic but my feeling were
that if the spacer was the wrong diameter, was it the right thickness?
If it was the correct spacer for that bike, had the wheels been
changed from stock?
If he buys a new seal and spacer, would it be the same as there now or
the right one?
Mind you, we have just been there with the number plate lights for
daughters 2004 Connect. I bought a pair of genuine lights (to fit the
new hd lamps), without looking at the van and was sent the wrong thing
(two individual lamps). On her van there is a black cowl that runs
over the both number plate lights and the lights have little windows
that slide and then pivot open to access the lamps. Googling about I
find we are not alone with the confusion and it seems that they were
only fitted for some of 2004 or to some models or somesuch? I've been
looking at lots of Connects of late and the only one I can remember
looking like hers is another 2004 model down our road. ;-)
But then aren't Ford know for fitting whatever is in the parts bin at
the time. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
Chris Whelan
Sep 13, 2017, 3:41:03 AM9/13/17
to
T i m wrote:
[...]
> But then aren't Ford know for fitting whatever is in the parts bin at
> the time. ;-)
Not in my experience; perhaps you were thinking of Peugeot...
Chris
--
Remove prejudice to reply.
[...]
> But then aren't Ford know for fitting whatever is in the parts bin at
> the time. ;-)
Chris
--
Remove prejudice to reply.
T i m
Sep 13, 2017, 9:08:22 AM9/13/17
to
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 08:41:01 +0100, Chris Whelan
<cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:
>T i m wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> But then aren't Ford know for fitting whatever is in the parts bin at
>> the time. ;-)
>
>Not in my experience; perhaps you were thinking of Peugeot...
>
No, it was deffo Ford in my mind but it may be any / all of them over
<cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:
>T i m wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> But then aren't Ford know for fitting whatever is in the parts bin at
>> the time. ;-)
>
>Not in my experience; perhaps you were thinking of Peugeot...
>
the years?
I know my mate running the garage often has to reject parts delivered,
even though all the databases and parts look-ups say it must be part X
bit it turns out it's not (and not because it's been modified etc).
He used to routinely fax scans of front brake pads as the wrong ones
were often sent and a straight picture match up fixed most instances
prior delivery.
I'll have to ask him if any make stands out as being 'difficult' to
pin down now or has been in the past (as he would be the one removing,
ordering and fitting the replacements for the last 40 years). ;-)
Cheers, T i m
Graham J
Sep 14, 2017, 3:42:13 AM9/14/17
to
always said: "Bring the old parts in so we can see whether they are
Lockheed or Girling so we can order the correct replacements." So such
work was always a 2-day job since the replacements would not arrive
until the next day.
The independent I use for some work always orders both sets in such
circumstances and sends back the wrong ones. I guess the admin aggro
means that they can complete the job for the customer the same day -
also they probably have a credit account with their supplier so they
refuse to pay if the supplier makes any sort of mistake - which from
what I've heard is fairly common.
--
Graham J
MrCheerful
Sep 14, 2017, 3:49:41 AM9/14/17
to
will have a choice of 4 sizes PLUS several makes and several variations.
T i m
Sep 14, 2017, 4:06:05 AM9/14/17
to
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 08:42:10 +0100, Graham J <gra...@invalid.com>
wrote:
<snip>
>> I'll have to ask him if any make stands out as being 'difficult' to
>> pin down now or has been in the past (as he would be the one removing,
>> ordering and fitting the replacements for the last 40 years). ;-)
>>
>
more brands of the same thing but where they require different parts
or brackets etc.
>So such
>work was always a 2-day job since the replacements would not arrive
>until the next day.
My garage mate is lucky to have multiple deliveries a day and if they
got something wrong will often make a special trip to sort it out.
When I've been working on something of mine in there you can say take
off the road wheels, note that you do need some new disks and pads and
have them arrive before you have the old ones off and the remaining
stuff cleaned up. ;-)
That makes a massive difference compared to doing stuff yourself in
the street as you have to clear everything up (tools etc) and use
another vehicle to go and get what you want (wasting time) and it's
doubly bad when the parts are then wrong or you forgot something (like
you assumed a 'kit' would come with everything required.
I think it was on the Meriva brakes I did recently you only got 1 new
bolt per side, presumably on the assumption that at least one of them
would come out undamaged?
(different bayonet layouts) but don't always get round to taking the
unwanted one back ... and then do the exact same thing the next time
round. ;-(
>I guess the admin aggro
>means that they can complete the job for the customer the same day -
>also they probably have a credit account with their supplier so they
>refuse to pay if the supplier makes any sort of mistake - which from
>what I've heard is fairly common.
My mate doesn't have an 'Accounts department' so only works with cash.
That way it's all sorted instantly whatever happens. ;-)
A while back his main supplier said they would be going to account
only so he said he would have to go elsewhere (and did). A couple of
months later they came back cap-in-hand and said they would accept
cash again. I wonder what bean counter their end thought doing that
wouldn't lose them any business?
Cheers, T i m
wrote:
<snip>
>> I'll have to ask him if any make stands out as being 'difficult' to
>> pin down now or has been in the past (as he would be the one removing,
>> ordering and fitting the replacements for the last 40 years). ;-)
>>
>
>A while ago I had a Vauxhall - when replacing brake parts the dealer
>always said: "Bring the old parts in so we can see whether they are
>Lockheed or Girling so we can order the correct replacements."
That's a good point ... the times were they could have used one or
>always said: "Bring the old parts in so we can see whether they are
>Lockheed or Girling so we can order the correct replacements."
more brands of the same thing but where they require different parts
or brackets etc.
>So such
>work was always a 2-day job since the replacements would not arrive
>until the next day.
got something wrong will often make a special trip to sort it out.
When I've been working on something of mine in there you can say take
off the road wheels, note that you do need some new disks and pads and
have them arrive before you have the old ones off and the remaining
stuff cleaned up. ;-)
That makes a massive difference compared to doing stuff yourself in
the street as you have to clear everything up (tools etc) and use
another vehicle to go and get what you want (wasting time) and it's
doubly bad when the parts are then wrong or you forgot something (like
you assumed a 'kit' would come with everything required.
I think it was on the Meriva brakes I did recently you only got 1 new
bolt per side, presumably on the assumption that at least one of them
would come out undamaged?
>
>The independent I use for some work always orders both sets in such
>circumstances and sends back the wrong ones.
I'll often do that with stuff like oil or air filters or lamps
>The independent I use for some work always orders both sets in such
>circumstances and sends back the wrong ones.
(different bayonet layouts) but don't always get round to taking the
unwanted one back ... and then do the exact same thing the next time
round. ;-(
>I guess the admin aggro
>means that they can complete the job for the customer the same day -
>also they probably have a credit account with their supplier so they
>refuse to pay if the supplier makes any sort of mistake - which from
>what I've heard is fairly common.
That way it's all sorted instantly whatever happens. ;-)
A while back his main supplier said they would be going to account
only so he said he would have to go elsewhere (and did). A couple of
months later they came back cap-in-hand and said they would accept
cash again. I wonder what bean counter their end thought doing that
wouldn't lose them any business?
Cheers, T i m
Chris Whelan
Sep 14, 2017, 4:34:39 AM9/14/17
to
MrCheerful wrote:
[...]
> having two different makes of brakes is not uncommon, but French cars
> will have a choice of 4 sizes PLUS several makes and several variations.
...and often no record of what was fitted to a given vehicle.
[...]
> having two different makes of brakes is not uncommon, but French cars
> will have a choice of 4 sizes PLUS several makes and several variations.
Graham J
Sep 14, 2017, 10:05:20 AM9/14/17
to
T i m wrote:
[snip]
>
> A while back his main supplier said they would be going to account
> only so he said he would have to go elsewhere (and did). A couple of
> months later they came back cap-in-hand and said they would accept
> cash again. I wonder what bean counter their end thought doing that
> wouldn't lose them any business?
Strange. When I ran a small computer support business suppliers would
ring me to try to get me to buy from them. If they gave me a credit
account I would do so, otherwise no.
Ove time I estimate a good 5% of all orders were either dead on arrrival
or failed within a few days of delivery, so having the credit account
gave me good leverage to get a faulty item replaced.
I learnt very quickly that you don't go to a customer site with a new
item still in the manufacturer's packaging, unopened. You always bench
test it for a few days before taking it ...
--
Graham J
[snip]
>
> A while back his main supplier said they would be going to account
> only so he said he would have to go elsewhere (and did). A couple of
> months later they came back cap-in-hand and said they would accept
> cash again. I wonder what bean counter their end thought doing that
> wouldn't lose them any business?
ring me to try to get me to buy from them. If they gave me a credit
account I would do so, otherwise no.
Ove time I estimate a good 5% of all orders were either dead on arrrival
or failed within a few days of delivery, so having the credit account
gave me good leverage to get a faulty item replaced.
I learnt very quickly that you don't go to a customer site with a new
item still in the manufacturer's packaging, unopened. You always bench
test it for a few days before taking it ...
--
Graham J
T i m
Sep 14, 2017, 11:02:35 AM9/14/17
to
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:05:17 +0100, Graham J <gra...@invalid.com>
wrote:
>T i m wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>
>> A while back his main supplier said they would be going to account
>> only so he said he would have to go elsewhere (and did). A couple of
>> months later they came back cap-in-hand and said they would accept
>> cash again. I wonder what bean counter their end thought doing that
>> wouldn't lose them any business?
>
>Strange. When I ran a small computer support business suppliers would
>ring me to try to get me to buy from them. If they gave me a credit
>account I would do so, otherwise no.
That's all very well if you don't mind the extra effort of keeping
track of such things?
and take it away and fix it or give him a new one / whatever. They
don't sort it out to his satisfaction he doesn't do any further
business with them. ;-)
But no, those aside <g>, I try to do the same with anything I get on
behalf of someone else, subject to me doing so to help them, rather
than just to save them a shopping trip etc.
I couldn't yesterday. Helping an older couple go from VM to TT
(don't), the TT TV box didn't seem to come with Wireless and the TV
was a fair way from the modem/router ... so I drove her up to Argos
and got her to buy a pair of TP-Link Powerline adaptors they did just
plug in and work (as they generally do I'd say). Had I got them for
her myself and not taken them straight there I'd generally run them at
home first.
Even then I tested the connectivity of the STB over the PL adaptors
away from the TV, rather than disturbing all that only to find the
replacement didn't work for some reason.
The number of times I hear that a garage had replaced several (and
often expensive) bits before replacing the right one yet the customer
still has to pay for (and the fitting of) everything.
If I buy a new hard drive because I believe that is the fault and
re-install say Windows on it and it turns out it isn't the fault ... I
put their drive back in and stomach the cost of the new drive myself
(unless it's better in some way, I find the real fault and offer it to
them as an upgrade).
Cheers, T i m
wrote:
>T i m wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>
>> A while back his main supplier said they would be going to account
>> only so he said he would have to go elsewhere (and did). A couple of
>> months later they came back cap-in-hand and said they would accept
>> cash again. I wonder what bean counter their end thought doing that
>> wouldn't lose them any business?
>
>Strange. When I ran a small computer support business suppliers would
>ring me to try to get me to buy from them. If they gave me a credit
>account I would do so, otherwise no.
track of such things?
>
>Ove time I estimate a good 5% of all orders were either dead on arrrival
>or failed within a few days of delivery, so having the credit account
>gave me good leverage to get a faulty item replaced.
For my mate it's a similar thing where he phones them up and the come
>Ove time I estimate a good 5% of all orders were either dead on arrrival
>or failed within a few days of delivery, so having the credit account
>gave me good leverage to get a faulty item replaced.
and take it away and fix it or give him a new one / whatever. They
don't sort it out to his satisfaction he doesn't do any further
business with them. ;-)
>
>I learnt very quickly that you don't go to a customer site with a new
>item still in the manufacturer's packaging, unopened. You always bench
>test it for a few days before taking it ...
Well, as long as you weren't supplying sex aids possibly ... ? <weg>
>I learnt very quickly that you don't go to a customer site with a new
>item still in the manufacturer's packaging, unopened. You always bench
>test it for a few days before taking it ...
But no, those aside <g>, I try to do the same with anything I get on
behalf of someone else, subject to me doing so to help them, rather
than just to save them a shopping trip etc.
I couldn't yesterday. Helping an older couple go from VM to TT
(don't), the TT TV box didn't seem to come with Wireless and the TV
was a fair way from the modem/router ... so I drove her up to Argos
and got her to buy a pair of TP-Link Powerline adaptors they did just
plug in and work (as they generally do I'd say). Had I got them for
her myself and not taken them straight there I'd generally run them at
home first.
Even then I tested the connectivity of the STB over the PL adaptors
away from the TV, rather than disturbing all that only to find the
replacement didn't work for some reason.
The number of times I hear that a garage had replaced several (and
often expensive) bits before replacing the right one yet the customer
still has to pay for (and the fitting of) everything.
If I buy a new hard drive because I believe that is the fault and
re-install say Windows on it and it turns out it isn't the fault ... I
put their drive back in and stomach the cost of the new drive myself
(unless it's better in some way, I find the real fault and offer it to
them as an upgrade).
Cheers, T i m
Graham J
Sep 14, 2017, 11:11:37 AM9/14/17
to
T i m wrote:
[snip]
[snip]
> If I buy a new hard drive because I believe that is the fault and
> re-install say Windows on it and it turns out it isn't the fault ... I
> put their drive back in and stomach the cost of the new drive myself
> (unless it's better in some way, I find the real fault and offer it to
> them as an upgrade).
With computers I reckon to diagnose virtually any fault without having
> re-install say Windows on it and it turns out it isn't the fault ... I
> put their drive back in and stomach the cost of the new drive myself
> (unless it's better in some way, I find the real fault and offer it to
> them as an upgrade).
to replace hardware; so I am pretty certain when I fit the new hardware
that the problem will be solved.
It surprises me that garages don't have the same skill. Mostly they say
"We will replace X and see if that cures the problem." Of course the
work involved in fitting the replacement is generally more costly than
the part itself, so getting them to re-fit the original part and not
charge for the work just doesn't happen.
--
Graham J
Chris Whelan
Sep 14, 2017, 11:25:49 AM9/14/17
to
Graham J wrote:
[...]
> It surprises me that garages don't have the same skill. Mostly they say
> "We will replace X and see if that cures the problem." Of course the
> work involved in fitting the replacement is generally more costly than
> the part itself, so getting them to re-fit the original part and not
> charge for the work just doesn't happen.
Cars are several orders of magnitude more complex than the average computer,
and there is a much wider skills base needed to fix them. Customers don't
want to pay the price they would need to if all mechanics were fully
trained.
[...]
> It surprises me that garages don't have the same skill. Mostly they say
> "We will replace X and see if that cures the problem." Of course the
> work involved in fitting the replacement is generally more costly than
> the part itself, so getting them to re-fit the original part and not
> charge for the work just doesn't happen.
and there is a much wider skills base needed to fix them. Customers don't
want to pay the price they would need to if all mechanics were fully
trained.
T i m
Sep 14, 2017, 12:07:30 PM9/14/17
to
On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 16:11:35 +0100, Graham J <gra...@invalid.com>
wrote:
>T i m wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> If I buy a new hard drive because I believe that is the fault and
>> re-install say Windows on it and it turns out it isn't the fault ... I
>> put their drive back in and stomach the cost of the new drive myself
>> (unless it's better in some way, I find the real fault and offer it to
>> them as an upgrade).
>
>With computers I reckon to diagnose virtually any fault without having
>to replace hardware;
Me too, but just sometimes, when it gets to straw clutching (or time
saving) time, substitution can be a good thing (like weird RAM
faults).
>so I am pretty certain when I fit the new hardware
>that the problem will be solved.
Of course, but 'pretty certain' isn't 'certain' is it. ;-)
doing diagnostics at £50 / hour then it could be cheaper for the
customer to fit a new thing for £100?
>Mostly they say
>"We will replace X and see if that cures the problem." Of course the
>work involved in fitting the replacement is generally more costly than
>the part itself, so getting them to re-fit the original part and not
>charge for the work just doesn't happen.
And that.
That's partly why when I got the diesel fuel pump ECU repaired I paid
to have it tested on the bench before paying to have it fitted and
*then* finding it failed.
Cheers, T i m
wrote:
>T i m wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> If I buy a new hard drive because I believe that is the fault and
>> re-install say Windows on it and it turns out it isn't the fault ... I
>> put their drive back in and stomach the cost of the new drive myself
>> (unless it's better in some way, I find the real fault and offer it to
>> them as an upgrade).
>
>With computers I reckon to diagnose virtually any fault without having
>to replace hardware;
saving) time, substitution can be a good thing (like weird RAM
faults).
>so I am pretty certain when I fit the new hardware
>that the problem will be solved.
>
>It surprises me that garages don't have the same skill.
I think it can be the same sort of thing, time. If they spend 3 hours
>It surprises me that garages don't have the same skill.
doing diagnostics at £50 / hour then it could be cheaper for the
customer to fit a new thing for £100?
>Mostly they say
>"We will replace X and see if that cures the problem." Of course the
>work involved in fitting the replacement is generally more costly than
>the part itself, so getting them to re-fit the original part and not
>charge for the work just doesn't happen.
That's partly why when I got the diesel fuel pump ECU repaired I paid
to have it tested on the bench before paying to have it fitted and
*then* finding it failed.
Cheers, T i m
Gordon H
Sep 16, 2017, 12:23:28 PM9/16/17
to
On 13/09/2017 08:41, Chris Whelan wrote:
> T i m wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> But then aren't Ford know for fitting whatever is in the parts bin at
>> the time. ;-)
>
> Not in my experience; perhaps you were thinking of Peugeot...
>
> Chris
>
For repair replacement parts on my 54 plate Mondeo the main dealer
> T i m wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> But then aren't Ford know for fitting whatever is in the parts bin at
>> the time. ;-)
>
> Not in my experience; perhaps you were thinking of Peugeot...
>
> Chris
>
offered a choice of genuine Ford parts or "acceptable" generic parts.
As it aged I chose generic parts.
My 3.7 y/old Focus hasn't required any parts thus far, and it doesn't
even have a clutch whoop.
;)
--
Gordon H
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