Halfords Dispute - Advice Needed
Dave
I'm about to go into dispute with Halfords over a snapped cambelt and
need some help here.
Basically, mid-1999 Halfords replaced the cambelt on my 1993 Ford
Escort 1.8 diesel (non-turbo). Setting off from some traffic lights
today there was an unusal noise from the engine for about 1 second
before it just died. Somehow I just knew it was the cambelt that had
snapped so I pushed it to the road side and sure enough, it had indeed
snapped.
The belt has snapped after only 18,000 miles (half the recommended
mileage). I immediately got on the phone to Halfords and asked what
warranty they put on their cambelts and was told that if the
manufacturers warranty stated 36,000 miles then that was what the
warranty covered.
I told him the situation and he said to get it towed in (thank you
Green Flag!) and they would take a look at it. If it was a duff pulley
or something, that would be my fault. However, if the belt was
defective then they would accept responsibility. I got the Green Flag
mechanic to take a look before he carted the car off and he seemed to
think the pulley's were okay.
Phoned them up at 4.20pm to be told the service manager had gone home.
I asked how poorly it was and was told the crankshaft was snapped in 4
places (a few bent valves there then)!!!
Here comes the crunch! I asked him what had caused the belt to fail.
He said their first impression was that a small oil-leak had developed
on the crankshaft oil-seal. He said he believed that this had
contaminated the belt and consequently weakened it eventually causing
it to snap.
There's no oil on the path so it must be a damned slow leak! He said I
would need to speak to the service manager to determine where we go
from here and I'd missed him by 10 minutes. "He'll phone you first
thing in the morning". Brilliant, no car and no idea what's coming
next. Well actually, I can see what's coming next - a huge repair
bill!
My question is :-
Is what they are saying feasible or should I be looking for an
independent mechanic to give his views?
Regards,
Dave
**.**
"Dave" <da...@parva4.clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qt801ts8qj2c4jhqb...@4ax.com...
Get an indipendant (mobile for example) mechanic to look at it. If he agrees
its the belt get that in writing. Then if Halfords try and slink out of
responsibility get a solicitor to write a letter and include a copy of the
mechanics report with it. Then sit back and wait for your car to be fixed in
record time and masses of apologies to flow your way.
Matt
Dave
On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:57:22 +0300, "**.**" <the....@virgin.net>
wrote:
>Get an indipendant (mobile for example) mechanic to look at it. If he agrees
>its the belt get that in writing. Then if Halfords try and slink out of
>responsibility get a solicitor to write a letter and include a copy of the
>mechanics report with it. Then sit back and wait for your car to be fixed in
>record time and masses of apologies to flow your way.
It looks like I may have a £500 bill coming and I can ill-afford to
pay for an independent mechanic on top of that unless I'm pretty
confident that he's going to agree that oil contamination was not the
cause (which is why I posted the original message). I had the snapped
cambelt in my hands and certainly didn't end up with oily fingers. The
belt was very clean in fact.
Regards,
Dave
Steve Walker
> It looks like I may have a £500 bill coming and I can ill-afford to
> pay for an independent mechanic on top of that unless I'm pretty
> confident that he's going to agree that oil contamination was not the
> cause (which is why I posted the original message). I had the snapped
> cambelt in my hands and certainly didn't end up with oily fingers. The
> belt was very clean in fact.
No-one can guarantee you'll win, without coming over and looking at it
themself. But your instinct sounds right - if there's no evidence of
oil-leakage then it's more likely that either the belt had a production
fault, or it was unduly twisted/levered during fitting.
For a £500 bill it's worth gambling £50 on a mechanic, IMHO.
Good Luck.
adventurer
about every one i have ever put a belt on you find there is a small leak
coming from the oilseal,but it is very rare to find one leaking that badly
that it has contaminated the belt with oil.
I would get an independant report done on this car i beleive the rac.do this
steve
Dave <da...@parva4.clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hoc01tcggkg3gss33...@4ax.com...
> Hi Matt,
>
> On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:57:22 +0300, "**.**" <the....@virgin.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Get an indipendant (mobile for example) mechanic to look at it. If he
agrees
> >its the belt get that in writing. Then if Halfords try and slink out of
> >responsibility get a solicitor to write a letter and include a copy of
the
> >mechanics report with it. Then sit back and wait for your car to be fixed
in
> >record time and masses of apologies to flow your way.
>
> It looks like I may have a £500 bill coming and I can ill-afford to
> pay for an independent mechanic on top of that unless I'm pretty
> confident that he's going to agree that oil contamination was not the
> cause (which is why I posted the original message). I had the snapped
> cambelt in my hands and certainly didn't end up with oily fingers. The
> belt was very clean in fact.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
Andy Hewitt
<snipped text>
> > Is what they are saying feasible or should I be looking for an
> > independent mechanic to give his views?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dave
>
>
> Get an indipendant (mobile for example) mechanic to look at it. If he agrees
> its the belt get that in writing. Then if Halfords try and slink out of
> responsibility get a solicitor to write a letter and include a copy of the
> mechanics report with it. Then sit back and wait for your car to be fixed in
> record time and masses of apologies to flow your way.
>
> Matt
It is my observation in recent times that cambelts very rarely snap due
to a failure of the belt itself. The exception to this is perhaps these
Ford Diesels were they are prone to breakage early, although they do
usually get nearer to the 36,000.
More often than not though, it is usually a siezing water pump, of
failing tensioner bearing that causes these failures - or indeed, an oil
leak which will weaken the belt.
By all means get an independent report, but be aware that any expenses
are down to yourself - at least until liability is established.
I presume that you can also prove full servicing since the belt was
replaced?
--
** Andy Hewitt ** FAF#1 'It's better burn out, than fade away'
Mac G3/400, Diversion 600s, Trekky, Honda Concerto EX
*Web page update - 10/00* http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ahewitt/index.htm
Dave
On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 19:35:38 +0000, ahe...@ntlworld.com (Andy Hewitt)
wrote:
Thanks for all your comments guys. I'm sceptical that it was an
oil-leak problem as I certainly didn't see any oil when the Green Flag
guy took the cowling off around the top end of the belt and as I
already stated, my hands were still clean after handling the belt. I
guess I'm just gonna have to play it by ear when the Manager phones me
tommorrow but I'm expecting the worst.
Andy :-
>It is my observation in recent times that cambelts very rarely snap due
>to a failure of the belt itself. The exception to this is perhaps these
>Ford Diesels were they are prone to breakage early, although they do
>usually get nearer to the 36,000.
Well this was precisely half way there and had been fitted June/July
1999. Can't find receipt off-hand but know I have it somewhere and
also know they have it on computer.
>More often than not though, it is usually a siezing water pump, of
>failing tensioner bearing that causes these failures - or indeed, an oil
>leak which will weaken the belt.
Uh oh! All pulley's were fine, they are going for the oil leak angle.
Would you expect a leak bad enough to cause belt failure to show up on
the path? I ask because I had a leak from the vacuum pump fairly
recently which I cured and I've been checking the path almost daily
for oil to make sure I did effect a cure for that so I know it's
definitely not dripping oil on the path. The vacuum pump is well away
from the cambelt of course. :)
>By all means get an independent report, but be aware that any expenses
>are down to yourself - at least until liability is established.
Which is why I'm reluctant to sanction one unless I stand a better
than average chance of being correct. Here's hoping the
grease-monkey's at Halfords play fair since they have the car in
question in their possesion.....
>I presume that you can also prove full servicing since the belt was
>replaced?
Hmmmmm, tricky! I had a full service done by Halfords themselves
Mid-November '99, an intermediate service by a local garage in June
(oil and filter basically) and it is just now due it's MOT and full
service once again. I do have receipts. :)
By the tone of the call tonight with one of the Halfords underdogs I'm
pretty sure they are going to labour the oil-leak defence.
Based on what I've told you, would you risk further cost (and delay)
with an independent examination or just bite the bullet and pay the
bill?
Incidentally, what's a reasonable bill for a cambelt (cost about £120
when I had it done - including water pump belt), camshaft and say four
valves? Does £500 sound close?
Stuck with a car that's 2nd hand value has depreciated faster than a
falling brick! Can't afford to fix it, can't afford not to! New brakes
all round, wheel cylinders, wheel bearings, full exhaust.... the list
goes on and on..... Never a Ford again!
Regards,
Dave
theceilingman
by a vat reg. mec/garage or some organisation such as the AA or the RAC.
by letting Halfords touch the car you take away the reason of the failure
because the cause can not be obtained after the part is replaced.
the service by the AA?RAC will cost you some money but it could money well
spent
Stephen
Steve
kay
But on a slightly different note, if it is oil contamination the belt would
slip before, if at all, snapping? If the belt did slip first then damage
would occur at this point causing the engine to stop, therefore the belt
would'nt snap. I could be wrong but if not then the oil excuse is a bit of
bull.
Andy Hewitt
> Hi Andy, Steve and Adventurer,
>
> On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 19:35:38 +0000, ahe...@ntlworld.com (Andy Hewitt)
> wrote:
>
> Thanks for all your comments guys. I'm sceptical that it was an
> oil-leak problem as I certainly didn't see any oil when the Green Flag
> guy took the cowling off around the top end of the belt and as I
> already stated, my hands were still clean after handling the belt. I
> guess I'm just gonna have to play it by ear when the Manager phones me
> tommorrow but I'm expecting the worst.
If the belt is clean of oil, then you might stand a chance. What make is
the belt? Why not send a part of it to them directly and ask them if it
is contaminated or not.
<snipped text>
> >More often than not though, it is usually a siezing water pump, of
> >failing tensioner bearing that causes these failures - or indeed, an oil
> >leak which will weaken the belt.
>
> Uh oh! All pulley's were fine, they are going for the oil leak angle.
> Would you expect a leak bad enough to cause belt failure to show up on
> the path? I ask because I had a leak from the vacuum pump fairly
> recently which I cured and I've been checking the path almost daily
> for oil to make sure I did effect a cure for that so I know it's
> definitely not dripping oil on the path. The vacuum pump is well away
> from the cambelt of course. :)
I have seen oil leaks such as you have. Very often the covers prevent a
lot of it dripping when stationary, and trap it around the belt.
> >By all means get an independent report, but be aware that any expenses
> >are down to yourself - at least until liability is established.
>
> Which is why I'm reluctant to sanction one unless I stand a better
> than average chance of being correct. Here's hoping the
> grease-monkey's at Halfords play fair since they have the car in
> question in their possesion.....
I would go to the car yourself and get a piece of the belt as a sample.
> >I presume that you can also prove full servicing since the belt was
> >replaced?
>
> Hmmmmm, tricky! I had a full service done by Halfords themselves
> Mid-November '99, an intermediate service by a local garage in June
> (oil and filter basically) and it is just now due it's MOT and full
> service once again. I do have receipts. :)
You should be OK then, although they might get out of this if you have
any extended intervals between services.
> By the tone of the call tonight with one of the Halfords underdogs I'm
> pretty sure they are going to labour the oil-leak defence.
In which case you may be wise to get a sample of the belt tested.
> Based on what I've told you, would you risk further cost (and delay)
> with an independent examination or just bite the bullet and pay the
> bill?
You may have to go that way for now. If you keep a sample of the belt,
you can continue the dispute later.
> Incidentally, what's a reasonable bill for a cambelt (cost about £120
> when I had it done - including water pump belt), camshaft and say four
> valves? Does £500 sound close?
Hmmmm, if the camshaft is broken, then you could be looking at a new
head. You sometimes can't remove the valves at all. Otherwise, £500
would be a good price.
> Stuck with a car that's 2nd hand value has depreciated faster than a
> falling brick! Can't afford to fix it, can't afford not to! New brakes
> all round, wheel cylinders, wheel bearings, full exhaust.... the list
> goes on and on..... Never a Ford again!
Mmmmmm, 2nd hand value is something that has affected everybody.
Ben Harvey
>
> Hi Andy, Steve and Adventurer,
>
> oil-leak problem as I certainly didn't see any oil when the Green Flag
> guy took the cowling off around the top end of the belt and as I
> already stated, my hands were still clean after handling the belt. I
> guess I'm just gonna have to play it by ear when the Manager phones me
> tommorrow but I'm expecting the worst.
>
>
> >It is my observation in recent times that cambelts very rarely snap due
> >to a failure of the belt itself. The exception to this is perhaps these
> >Ford Diesels were they are prone to breakage early, although they do
> >usually get nearer to the 36,000.
>
> Well this was precisely half way there and had been fitted June/July
> 1999. Can't find receipt off-hand but know I have it somewhere and
> also know they have it on computer.
>
> >failing tensioner bearing that causes these failures - or indeed, an oil
> >leak which will weaken the belt.
>
> Uh oh! All pulley's were fine, they are going for the oil leak angle.
> Would you expect a leak bad enough to cause belt failure to show up on
> the path? I ask because I had a leak from the vacuum pump fairly
> recently which I cured and I've been checking the path almost daily
> for oil to make sure I did effect a cure for that so I know it's
> definitely not dripping oil on the path. The vacuum pump is well away
> from the cambelt of course. :)
>
> >are down to yourself - at least until liability is established.
>
> Which is why I'm reluctant to sanction one unless I stand a better
> than average chance of being correct. Here's hoping the
> grease-monkey's at Halfords play fair since they have the car in
> question in their possesion.....
<snip>
> By the tone of the call tonight with one of the Halfords underdogs I'm
> pretty sure they are going to labour the oil-leak defence.
>
> Based on what I've told you, would you risk further cost (and delay)
> with an independent examination or just bite the bullet and pay the
> bill?
>
> Incidentally, what's a reasonable bill for a cambelt (cost about £120
> when I had it done - including water pump belt), camshaft and say four
> valves? Does £500 sound close?
If I can add my advice to this, I would recommend that you have a look at the small print on your receipt, and the guarantee that Halfords provides for this sort of work. You may find that they refuse all consequential losses, which they might take to include the consequential damage to the engine of the belt's failure. If they DO refuse this sort of expense, then any compensation you get towards the cost of the repair will be purely goodwill, and they're not legally obliged to pay this, although a good solicitor may be able to convice them otherwise. ;)
Secondly, they may argue that since you've run 18k miles on the belt, the problem can't be in fitting (because it would have shown up earlier). Dunno if you can damage belts in fitting and reduce their longevity. Anyone? If the problem can't be in fitting then it must be either a manufactured weakness in the belt or something outside their control (like an oil leak). In either case, you can't really blame Halfords, but must rely on their guarantee or goodwill. 18k may not be the 'usual' running period of 36k miles, but I bet they don't *guarantee* 36k miles' service. A court may decide that you're just unlucky, and that 18k miles is within the order of magnitude of acceptable life. In this case, Halfords would be blameless.
Finally, if the worst comes to the worst and they simply won't pay, how about you bargain with them over the repair costs? You could offer to split the bill 50/50 (since you've had 18k miles out of the normal 36k) and see whether this compromise can be reached. If you give them the repair job to do then they may be happier to bargain like this. However, don't offer this compromise unless you're sure you've exhausted all other options (such as threatening legal action, sacrificing their first-born etc.). If you offer it too early they may take it as a sign of you accepting liability and immediately refuse to talk further. Don't make the offer in writing unless you put somewhere on the page "Without prejudice." Your solicitor would be able to do this better than I can.
I'm not a legal chap, but I used to handle warranty claims for the manufacturer of industrial turbochargers, and I used to bargain with shipping companies over busted equipment every day. My comments above are based on my experiences in doing that from the 'Halfords' viewpoint. We were always far more reasonable with people who trusted us and gave us the repair job than with those who went elsewhere to get a repair, then just got nasty with us. It's all about communication; your Halfords manager doesn't want to fall out with a customer and you don't want the hassle of legal action. Talk to them and negotiate to find areas of compromise. The minute you start shouting they'll fight you all the way! We used to! They're only going to lose one customer in the end.
--
Regards,
Ben
ben -at- gingertom.demon.co.uk
John Beynon
Dave <da...@parva4.clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qt801ts8qj2c4jhqb...@4ax.com...
> Hi All,
>
> I'm about to go into dispute with Halfords over a snapped cambelt and
> need some help here.
>
> Basically, mid-1999 Halfords replaced the cambelt on my 1993 Ford
> Escort 1.8 diesel (non-turbo). Setting off from some traffic lights
> today there was an unusal noise from the engine for about 1 second
> before it just died. Somehow I just knew it was the cambelt that had
> snapped so I pushed it to the road side and sure enough, it had indeed
> snapped.
>
> The belt has snapped after only 18,000 miles (half the recommended
> mileage). I immediately got on the phone to Halfords and asked what
> warranty they put on their cambelts and was told that if the
> manufacturers warranty stated 36,000 miles then that was what the
> warranty covered.
>
I'm surprised that they say that the belt is covered to 36,000 miles.
Whilst the "recommended change point" is 36,000 that does not imply that the
part is warranted for the whole of that mileage. I would have thought that
it would be 12,000 or 12 months as are other parts. Also whilst covering
the belt, they may not cover workmanship for the same timespan, some only
cover 3 months. I think you would be hard pressed to persue a claim after
12 months. We have a fleet of Transits which allegedly had new cambelts
fitted by the main dealer at 50,000. 4 vans broke their belts before
reaching 100,000 miles and the 5th was nearly gone when we took it off
early. Ford didn't want to know and refused any kind of warranty.
Hope this is of help,
John
Don Elkington
A sideways thought - on cars like the Vauxhall Corsa it is possible to fit
the belt tensionner the wrong way up, which results in overtensionning when
used. This wears out the belt which then snaps.
Have someone look at your vehicle.
----
don
"John Beynon" <j.be...@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:qE0Q5.11860$Fi.53659@NewsReader...
Dave Plowman
Ben Harvey <see.b...@of.message> wrote:
> If I can add my advice to this, I would recommend that you have a look
> at the small print on your receipt, and the guarantee that Halfords
> provides for this sort of work. You may find that they refuse all
> consequential losses, which they might take to include the consequential
> damage to the engine of the belt's failure. If they DO refuse this sort
> of expense, then any compensation you get towards the cost of the repair
> will be purely goodwill, and they're not legally obliged to pay this,
> although a good solicitor may be able to convice them otherwise. ;)
You get all sorts of exclusion clauses in things like receipts. Many have
no bearing in law - but this might mean suing them to prove.
--
* Sherlock Holmes never said "Elementary, my dear Watson" *
Dave Plowman dave....@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn
Bill Brockbank
insurance which would cover any such component failures?
Bill
--
badger5
http://www.badger5.demon.co.uk
Ben Harvey <see.b...@of.message> wrote in message
news:3A109270...@of.message...
Eric Chowanietz
I remember about 10 years ago a colleague bought a new Escort. The belt
snapped at 14000 miles /18 months. He'd not long had the car serviced at
a Ford dealer and Ford didn't want to know about a claim.
After all these years they still haven't sorted the belt out - what about
the fuse boxes that go duff at ŁŁŁŁ's a time and the dodgy ignition switch
connectors? They keep making them, treating customers badly, and people
keep buying them!
Don't buy these cars - there are better designed and more reliable cars
available for the same money.
Eric
Dave wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'm about to go into dispute with Halfords over a snapped cambelt and
> need some help here.
>
> Basically, mid-1999 Halfords replaced the cambelt on my 1993 Ford
> Escort 1.8 diesel (non-turbo). Setting off from some traffic lights
> today there was an unusal noise from the engine for about 1 second
> before it just died. Somehow I just knew it was the cambelt that had
> snapped so I pushed it to the road side and sure enough, it had indeed
> snapped.
>
> The belt has snapped after only 18,000 miles (half the recommended
> mileage). I immediately got on the phone to Halfords and asked what
> warranty they put on their cambelts and was told that if the
> manufacturers warranty stated 36,000 miles then that was what the
> warranty covered.
>
Guy King
from "John Beynon" <j.be...@btconnect.com> contains these words:
> We have a fleet of Transits which allegedly had new cambelts
> fitted by the main dealer at 50,000.
Which is why I do our own!
--
Skipweasel...
I must down to the shed again,
to the joyful sheddy life,
To the last’s way and the pie’s way
where life’s like a lost Stanley knife;
Ben Harvey
>
> Does'nt any company or supplier of good/products carry a 3rd party indemnity
> insurance which would cover any such component failures?
> Bill
It's not a legal requirement for companies to insure themselves against warranty claims like this, so many don't. I don't know whether Halfords will have insurance covering repairs they've screwed up, or whether they just suffer the cost of doing the repair (if costs arise and Halfords admits liability). I would guess the latter, which is why they'll be reluctant to pay out.
However, they will (*must*?) have professional indemnity insurance. This covers them against claims by people who have suffered huge losses (personal injury, death etc.) as a result of Halfords' mistakes or defective work. (This would swing into play if your brakes failed, you ploughed into a tree and were paralysed, for example.)
Ben
Dave
On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 00:01:29 +0000, ahe...@ntlworld.com (Andy Hewitt)
wrote:
<Snip>
>If the belt is clean of oil, then you might stand a chance. What make is
>the belt? Why not send a part of it to them directly and ask them if it
>is contaminated or not.
Good questions! :) The belt is with the car in Halfords servicing bay
unfortunately. They tell me it's made by Goodyear and I didn't pay
enough attention when I actually had it in my hands. The reason it was
sent with the Green Flag man and the car was simply because I knew
they would need it to ascertain warranty implications so I didn't keep
it for myself. Bad move maybe.... However, myself and the mechanic had
a damned good look at it as did my works van driver who saw me
stranded and kindly gave me a lift home. The belt was that clean that
I literally threw it onto the passenger seat - not something I would
do with an oily belt!
<Snip>
>> Uh oh! All pulley's were fine, they are going for the oil leak angle.
>I have seen oil leaks such as you have. Very often the covers prevent a
>lot of it dripping when stationary, and trap it around the belt.
The inside of the top end of the cover was spotless and not a single
drip of oil on the path. I've watched the path very carefully after I
cured the leaking vacuum pump and had to scrub the oil away with
washing-up liquid and a sweeping brush. The smallest drip would have
been immediately apparent!
<Snip>
>> Hmmmmm, tricky! I had a full service done by Halfords themselves
>> Mid-November '99, an intermediate service by a local garage in June
>> (oil and filter basically) and it is just now due it's MOT and full
>> service once again. I do have receipts. :)
>You should be OK then, although they might get out of this if you have
>any extended intervals between services.
Definitely not! Last major service done November last year by
themselves and intermediate service (as in oil/filter change) done by
another garage June/July. Now due it's next major service with approx.
13,000 miles under it's belt (ouch - bad choice of words!) since the
last one.
>> By the tone of the call tonight with one of the Halfords underdogs I'm
>> pretty sure they are going to labour the oil-leak defence.
>In which case you may be wise to get a sample of the belt tested.
I'm sure I can get hold of that easily enough if necessary.
>> Incidentally, what's a reasonable bill for a cambelt (cost about £120
>> when I had it done - including water pump belt), camshaft and say four
>> valves? Does £500 sound close?
>Hmmmm, if the camshaft is broken, then you could be looking at a new
>head. You sometimes can't remove the valves at all. Otherwise, £500
>would be a good price.
Oh dear, recon engine's looking a better prospect now.....
See later in this thread for the latest Andy (saves me repeating
myself). :)
Thanks for the help,
Regards,
Dave
Dave
On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 01:16:32 +0000, Ben Harvey <see.b...@of.message>
wrote:
>If I can add my advice to this, I would recommend that you have a look at the small print on your receipt, and the guarantee that Halfords provides for this sort of work. You may find that they refuse all consequential losses, which they might take to include the consequential damage to the engine of the belt's failure. If they DO refuse this sort of expense, then any compensation you get towards the cost of the repair will be purely goodwill, and they're not legally obliged to pay this, although a good solicitor may be able to convice them otherwise. ;)
I've snipped the rest to save bandwidth but thanks for the tips Ben.
:) My plan of action was basically :-
1) Insist the belt was faulty (I'm convinced it was) *
2) Get an independent examination
3) Try to get the price down as a gesture of goodwill on their part -
they've had many hundreds of pounds of business out of me!
The Service Manager did say that if the belt had failed due to
defective manufacturing then they would put right ALL consequential
damage.
See later in the thread for the latest.
Thanks Ben,
Regards,
Dave
Dave
On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 09:35:51 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman
<dave....@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> You get all sorts of exclusion clauses in things like receipts. Many have
>no bearing in law - but this might mean suing them to prove.
I think I'm pretty safe on that one. He said, "If the belt failed
before the manufacturers recommended mileage/age then we will be
responsible for any repairs". He went on to say that he couldn't be
blamed for siezed pulleys et al but that's been discounted anyway.
Latest update later in the thread.
Cheers Dave,
Regards,
Dave (Another one!)
Dave
<REMOVETHI...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I agree with all other posts about getting an independant vehicle examiner.
That's my next weapon depending on what they say tommorrow.....
>But on a slightly different note, if it is oil contamination the belt would
>slip before, if at all, snapping? If the belt did slip first then damage
>would occur at this point causing the engine to stop, therefore the belt
>would'nt snap. I could be wrong but if not then the oil excuse is a bit of
>bull.
Tricky one that! :) Not sure it would actually slip before breaking
due to the teeth on the belt and pulley's. However, I would expect an
oil-weakened belt to at least leave a small mark on my hands/passenger
seat? No oil in sight! Update later in thread.....
Regards,
Dave
Dave
On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 01:28:10 -0000, "John Beynon"
<j.be...@btconnect.com> wrote:
>I'm surprised that they say that the belt is covered to 36,000 miles.
Well I phoned from the mobile whilst sat in a very poorly Escort and
they assured me that if the manufacturer recommended a 36,000 mile
cambelt change they would warrant their own replacements to that. :)
The only exception was if they found another cause of belt failure
such as pulley seizure or oil contamination - which is the point they
mentioned yesterday.
Regards,
Dave
Dave
On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:04:21 +0000, Eric Chowanietz <e...@dmu.ac.uk>
wrote:
>Why on Earth do people keep buying these Fords?
After the Ford Cortina of many years ago and swearing that I'd never
do it again, I now realise why I said that at the time! :)
Regards,
Dave
Dave
Latest update :-
Wife phoned Halfords this morning to be told the Service Manager has a
day off. Brill! <Not> Anyway, the guy tells her that someone who was
dealing with the car when it went in would phone after 10am.
The wife diverted calls from my BT line to my mobile since she was off
to work. Surprise, no calls right up till 3pm. I called them up and
asked what the hell was happening.
I was told that they were dismantling the engine to assess the damage
in order to better inform the Service Manager on his return tommorrow
as to the extent of the damage. I once again asked where the bill was
going to lie and was told that I would need to speak to the Service
Manager tommorrow. I protested about being left in limbo with it and
the guy was very understanding and apologetic and since I've secured a
loan works Mondeo I was prepared to accept that. :)
The plot thickens! They haven't admitted liability or given any
inkling that they may contribute towards the cost. Why then are they
stripping the engine to check the damage? I have not given them any
authorisation to do so and am puzzled as to why they are going to
these lengths when they clearly know that the liabilty factor is
disputed....
I already knew that they had taken the rocker-box cover off to
discover the broken camshaft and I would consider that pretty normal
in a warranty claim I guess but why are they now stripping the head
(from what I'm lead to believe) when there's still no decision on who
is liable?
Tommorrow could be very interesting if they proclaim it's a fault
other than the cambelt and I tell them I want to get it repaired
elsewhere and it's in bits!
Some strange goings on at Halfords! I'll let you know what happens
tommorrow.....
Regards,
Dave
Andy Hewitt
> Hi Andy,
>
> On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 00:01:29 +0000, ahe...@ntlworld.com (Andy Hewitt)
> wrote:
>
> <Snip>
> >If the belt is clean of oil, then you might stand a chance. What make is
> >the belt? Why not send a part of it to them directly and ask them if it
> >is contaminated or not.
>
> Good questions! :) The belt is with the car in Halfords servicing bay
> unfortunately. They tell me it's made by Goodyear and I didn't pay
> enough attention when I actually had it in my hands. The reason it was
> sent with the Green Flag man and the car was simply because I knew
> they would need it to ascertain warranty implications so I didn't keep
> it for myself. Bad move maybe.... However, myself and the mechanic had
> a damned good look at it as did my works van driver who saw me
> stranded and kindly gave me a lift home. The belt was that clean that
> I literally threw it onto the passenger seat - not something I would
> do with an oily belt!
Fair enough. It does sound very much like a belt failure then. It helps
to get matters clear when advising on anything like this.
In this case It would appear to be the liability of Halfords. If they
continue to refuse to accept this liability, then calling on an
independent assessor would seem to be the next course of action.
If you're a member of either the AA or RAC, then I'd start with them.
> <Snip>
> >> Uh oh! All pulley's were fine, they are going for the oil leak angle.
> >I have seen oil leaks such as you have. Very often the covers prevent a
> >lot of it dripping when stationary, and trap it around the belt.
>
> The inside of the top end of the cover was spotless and not a single
> drip of oil on the path. I've watched the path very carefully after I
> cured the leaking vacuum pump and had to scrub the oil away with
> washing-up liquid and a sweeping brush. The smallest drip would have
> been immediately apparent!
Fine, but the oil can weep under a timing cover and contaminate a belt
long before you notice it.
> <Snip>
> >> Hmmmmm, tricky! I had a full service done by Halfords themselves
> >> Mid-November '99, an intermediate service by a local garage in June
> >> (oil and filter basically) and it is just now due it's MOT and full
> >> service once again. I do have receipts. :)
> >You should be OK then, although they might get out of this if you have
> >any extended intervals between services.
>
> Definitely not! Last major service done November last year by
> themselves and intermediate service (as in oil/filter change) done by
> another garage June/July. Now due it's next major service with approx.
> 13,000 miles under it's belt (ouch - bad choice of words!) since the
> last one.
Hmmm, could be what I'd call extended. I'd still recommend servicing
these at at least 6000 miles intervals, especially as you don't state
what oil has been used.
> >> By the tone of the call tonight with one of the Halfords underdogs I'm
> >> pretty sure they are going to labour the oil-leak defence.
> >In which case you may be wise to get a sample of the belt tested.
>
> I'm sure I can get hold of that easily enough if necessary.
I would at least get a piece of it.
> >> Incidentally, what's a reasonable bill for a cambelt (cost about £120
> >> when I had it done - including water pump belt), camshaft and say four
> >> valves? Does £500 sound close?
> >Hmmmm, if the camshaft is broken, then you could be looking at a new
> >head. You sometimes can't remove the valves at all. Otherwise, £500
> >would be a good price.
>
> Oh dear, recon engine's looking a better prospect now.....
Yes. We had one go under warranty, and when we spoke to the technical
department, they recommended replacing the engine as the impact required
to break the shaft would most likely have caused damage to the crank
bearings.
A lot of people just rebuild, and do get away with it, the choice is
yours.
> See later in this thread for the latest Andy (saves me repeating
> myself). :)
>
Yes, I've read some of it. Just wanted to clear up a couple of matters.
I would pay particular attention to the possible get out clauses
mentioned by Ben. I know a lot of extended warranty companies don't pay
for 'consequential' damage, although that is really a different matter.
They are giving a warranty against the failure of a given component. Any
liability for the failure of that part should really be down to the
manufacturer of that part.
The manufacturer of the belt has to be liable for the failure of that
belt, and any damage it causes through faulty manufacture. If they say
that their belt is capable of performing as the original belt did, then
it should at least be able to be used for the same mileage.
That brings about another argument too, and I do know this one for a
fact. Ford do state in their owners service books. Cambelts should be
changed at 36000 miles on Diesel engines (except Endura DE and E). There
is a footnote marked against that though that says (or very near to) 'or
earlier under harsh driving conditions'.
Of course that does open up the whole argument to interpretation.
All I can say is, call the RAC/AA, and the best of luck.
Andy Hewitt
<snipped text>
> I was told that they were dismantling the engine to assess the damage
> in order to better inform the Service Manager on his return tommorrow
> as to the extent of the damage. I once again asked where the bill was
> going to lie and was told that I would need to speak to the Service
> Manager tommorrow. I protested about being left in limbo with it and
> the guy was very understanding and apologetic and since I've secured a
> loan works Mondeo I was prepared to accept that. :)
>
> The plot thickens! They haven't admitted liability or given any
> inkling that they may contribute towards the cost. Why then are they
> stripping the engine to check the damage? I have not given them any
> authorisation to do so and am puzzled as to why they are going to
> these lengths when they clearly know that the liabilty factor is
> disputed....
They are now clearly in the wrong. They should not have started
stripping this engine, unless they are prepared to accept liability for
the costs, or you have given express permission to do so - It's still
*you're* car!
> I already knew that they had taken the rocker-box cover off to
> discover the broken camshaft and I would consider that pretty normal
> in a warranty claim I guess but why are they now stripping the head
> (from what I'm lead to believe) when there's still no decision on who
> is liable?
They are liable for any costs incurred now.
> Tommorrow could be very interesting if they proclaim it's a fault
> other than the cambelt and I tell them I want to get it repaired
> elsewhere and it's in bits!
It's their tough luck, you might have even saved some labour costs :-)
> Some strange goings on at Halfords! I'll let you know what happens
> tommorrow.....
Stick by your guns, this stinks, and it does all look to being their
liability. Get the manufacturer of the belt involved if at all possible.
Dave Plowman
Dave <da...@parva4.clara.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm about to go into dispute with Halfords over a snapped cambelt and
> need some help here.
> Basically, mid-1999 Halfords replaced the cambelt on my 1993 Ford
> Escort 1.8 diesel (non-turbo). Setting off from some traffic lights
> today there was an unusal noise from the engine for about 1 second
> before it just died. Somehow I just knew it was the cambelt that had
> snapped so I pushed it to the road side and sure enough, it had indeed
> snapped.
Just reading this again, I see it was more than a year ago. Some *new*
cars only come with a one year warranty..
--
* Black holes are where God divided by zero *
Ben Harvey
>
> Hi All,
>
> Latest update :-
>
> in order to better inform the Service Manager on his return tommorrow
> as to the extent of the damage. I once again asked where the bill was
> going to lie and was told that I would need to speak to the Service
> Manager tommorrow. I protested about being left in limbo with it and
> the guy was very understanding and apologetic and since I've secured a
> loan works Mondeo I was prepared to accept that. :)
>
> The plot thickens! They haven't admitted liability or given any
> inkling that they may contribute towards the cost. Why then are they
> stripping the engine to check the damage? I have not given them any
> authorisation to do so and am puzzled as to why they are going to
> these lengths when they clearly know that the liabilty factor is
> disputed....
>
> discover the broken camshaft and I would consider that pretty normal
> in a warranty claim I guess but why are they now stripping the head
> (from what I'm lead to believe) when there's still no decision on who
> is liable?
>
> other than the cambelt and I tell them I want to get it repaired
> elsewhere and it's in bits!
Sounds to me like they're getting nervous about this one. My gut reaction is that if you're reasonable with them now and make it easy for them to agree, they'll admit that it's not your fault and they'll repair it. If you get argumentative or confrontational about why they've started stripping the engine they'll start getting defensive and refuse to accept anything, including the costs of the repair.
Softly, softly etc. Go and have a quiet chat with the grease monkey doing the job, if you can, or (even better) ask a mate to go down and engage one of the lads in general (non-related) conversation to see what comments are dropped about your car.
Dunno how you stand (legally) with them stripping your engine without authorisation. It's unacceptable, really. You could certainly ask them to rebuild it before you take the car away to get fixed (if it comes to that). I'm sure you could also refuse to pay any of the costs of stripping the engine, since you didn't agree to it.
Make it clear to the service manager that you disagree with them stripping the engine without authorisation, but acknowledge that by starting immediately they can get you back on the road earlier. In this way you're being a 'good' customer rather than a stroppy bugger. Good customers always get better service!
Incidentally, you should (if you're not already) be keeping a written record of everything that happens with this. Who said what to whom, who did what and when, and what's happening. Should it all get nasty, then this sort of record is vital to establish the facts. When did you discover that they had started stripping the engine? Did you make it clear immediately that you didn't authorise the work? To whom did you say this? When? Keep this sort of record.
Sorry if it's Granny sucking eggs time, but you asked for advice!
Dave
Firstly, many thanks to everyone who replied. There was lots of useful
suggestions and advice and I was well armed with the info to tackle
Halfords if they decided that I was the one at fault!
The wife phoned up this morning at 11am since she hadn't heard
anything from them (I was at work). The Service Manager (he really
does exist afterall!) has admitted that they are indeed liable for the
cambelt breakage and all subsequent damage. Phew! :-)
They are fitting a new cylinder-head (though it's unclear whether this
is actually new or reconditioned but I aren't complaining) and
obviously a new camshaft and various other bits. The downside is that
it's gonna be the weekend before I get the car back but I've got use
of the works Mondeo till then. I could've been cheeky and gave them
some more bills for taxi's and other consequential losses I guess but
at the end of the day I've got a free 'hire' car from work and don't
feel it's worth pressing for any more than I'm already getting. :)
There was no mention of oil-contamination this morning and I'm
beginning to feel that they were trying it on. Had I been less
clued-up on the workings of an engine I strongly suspect that they
would've played on the contamination aspect and I'd have had a huge
bill..... Fortunately, telling them the belt was clean when I handled
it and clean enough to throw onto the passenger seat seems to have had
the desired effect.
Hold on! Halfords just phoned as I was writing! Apparently, the
water-pump was leaking. He said he could've attributed cambelt failure
to contamination from the anti-freeze leaking from the pump but he
isn't going to - he's still doing it as a warranty job (and the head
is a reconditioned one from Bradford Grinders). He said it could've
possibly caused it but he would've expected the teeth to strip off
first as opposed to a complete breakage. However, I'm now faced with a
bill for £120 for a replacement water-pump. He said he would hapilly
replace the old one if that's what I wanted but strongly recommended
replacing it now rather than later when the leak gets worse and costs
nearly double due to having to remove the cambelt again.
Herein lies a story!
--------------------
About 6 weeks ago I replaced the vacuum-pump due to an oil-leak (the
pump's miles away from the cambelt so I knew they couldn't attribute
that as the cause). Whilst replacing the pump I noticed that the
expansion tank water level had dropped well below the minimum mark.
This was unusual because it had never moved before in two years of
ownership. I immediately suspected the water-pump and began looking
for leaks but saw nothing.
About four weeks ago I decided to put a marker line on the water level
and on a recent check it appeared to have dropped extremely slightly
but I figured that this could be because I didn't have the car at
exactly the same angle as when I first put the mark on (the car's half
on a kerb, half on the path due to living in a narrow street).
I'm now wondering whether the cambelt breaking could indeed have been
due to anti-freeze contamination?
As I said, he's still proceeding with the work as a warranty job (£700
was quoted!) so I guess paying £120 to have the waterpump fixed could
have turned into a bargain. :)
He also said that he's got new cylinder-head bolts and various other
bits so he's not trying to cut corners and save a few quid.
I still have my reservations about Halfords but they have gone a long
way towards passifying <Sp?> me. In fact they've gone so far that I've
also asked them to MOT it (due at the end of the month). They did it
last year and failed it on an 11mm crack that had passed for the two
previous years at other garages). Yup, I know the limit is 10mm but I
was still pissed off at having to fork out £50 for a new screen (thank
heavens I'm fully comp.!). The exhaust, brake pads, discs, shoes and
wheel cylinders were all done last month, suspension is fine as are CV
boots and exhaust replaced last month so I'm hopeful that it'll pass!
There's an ulterior motive to this. THEY get to rev the engine right
up to the limit with the new head on it as part of the test. If it's
gonna go bang, it'll be them that it does it on! lol
Sorry for the length of this post and thanks once again for the help
and advice.
Regards,
Dave
Mike Bees
> I'm now wondering whether the cambelt breaking could indeed have been
> due to anti-freeze contamination?
I'd very much expect cambelts to be reasonably resistant to the
various fluids that might might find flying around in an engine bay.
But if a cambelt-driven water pump siezes...
Mike
Mike B
They're not resistant to oil though - and that's probably the most common
fluid to be lying about the place since it doesn't run off or dry out like
water does...
Mike
Dave
On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:51:11 -0000, "Mike B"
<m.bur...@bigfoot.obvious.com> wrote:
>> > I'm now wondering whether the cambelt breaking could indeed have been
>> > due to anti-freeze contamination?
>>
>> I'd very much expect cambelts to be reasonably resistant to the
>> various fluids that might might find flying around in an engine bay.
>> But if a cambelt-driven water pump siezes...
>
>They're not resistant to oil though - and that's probably the most common
>fluid to be lying about the place since it doesn't run off or dry out like
>water does...
Water-pump definitely not siezed, got the Green Flag guy to check that
before it was taken into Halfords since I knew that was a possible
get-out clause.
Oil-contamination? Nope, already explained that one. :)
The car has lost an estimated 2 litres of coolant at some point but
over the course of six weeks (4 weeks watching very closely!) it
didn't appear to lose any more. If it did, it was miniscule amounts.
I can't say one way or the other whether the alleged leak was the
cause of an early cambelt failure (I say 'alleged' because I know
water disappeared but never found the cause).
I would say that even by Halfords standards the cambelt should last
significantly longer than half its life. I'm happy with the eventual
outcome. :)
Regards,
Dave
Ben Harvey
> The wife phoned up this morning at 11am since she hadn't heard
> anything from them (I was at work). The Service Manager (he really
> does exist afterall!) has admitted that they are indeed liable for the
> cambelt breakage and all subsequent damage. Phew! :-)
Nice one, Dave. Congratulations on breaking the code of the major corporation in handling pushover customers! Power to the people! Together
we will beat them!
Oh, hello nurse. It's time now, is it? I'll just get me coat.
Dan
> Hold on! Halfords just phoned as I was writing! Apparently, the
> water-pump was leaking. He said he could've attributed cambelt failure
> to contamination from the anti-freeze leaking from the pump but he
> isn't going to - he's still doing it as a warranty job (and the head
> is a reconditioned one from Bradford Grinders). He said it could've
> possibly caused it but he would've expected the teeth to strip off
> first as opposed to a complete breakage. However, I'm now faced with a
I can't see antifreeze snapping a belt, but you never know. I didn't think
they were sensitive to oil, either, but apparently they are.
> bill for £120 for a replacement water-pump. He said he would hapilly
> replace the old one if that's what I wanted but strongly recommended
> replacing it now rather than later when the leak gets worse and costs
> nearly double due to having to remove the cambelt again.
What's it made of, solid gold? That's not cheap. I'd make sure the pump
itself is leaking as opposed to the seal against the engine. But, even if
they are trying it on again here, I think you've come out of this quite
well in the circumstances.
Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells
wrote:
>Dave wrote:
>> Hold on! Halfords just phoned as I was writing! Apparently, the
>> water-pump was leaking. He said he could've attributed cambelt failure
>> to contamination from the anti-freeze leaking from the pump but he
>> isn't going to - he's still doing it as a warranty job (and the head
>> is a reconditioned one from Bradford Grinders). He said it could've
>> possibly caused it but he would've expected the teeth to strip off
>> first as opposed to a complete breakage. However, I'm now faced with a
>
>I can't see antifreeze snapping a belt, but you never know. I didn't think
>they were sensitive to oil, either, but apparently they are.
>
I've seen oil strip the teeth of several cambelts. Cambelts are
uniquely placed where oil can leak onto them from one of several seals
(aside from someone not replacing the oil filler cap like my missus
did). You would think that with today's technology someone could come
up with an oil-resistant material that would do the job.
Willy Eckerslyke
> I've seen oil strip the teeth of several cambelts. Cambelts are
> uniquely placed where oil can leak onto them from one of several seals
> (aside from someone not replacing the oil filler cap like my missus
> did). You would think that with today's technology someone could come
> up with an oil-resistant material that would do the job.
But why would they bother?
Car manufacturers wouldn't want to know as the service interval
wouldn't be increased. Belt manufacturers would gain nothing as
they wouldn't be able to sell more of them and few people would
be willing to pay a higher price. Repairers certainly wouldn't
gain anything.
--
Regards, Willy. | "Is there anywhere in this damned
| place where I can get a decent
ku.ca.rognab@801sso :liam-E | bottle of Bass?" Tennyson 1862
Fergus Duncan
bought an old Audi 100 2.3 for very little, it had a number of problems (one
being a broken piston - hence the misfire and 'bad' noises), but a relevant
one here was a front crankshaft oil leak (groove worn on the shaft - loads
of miles), leaking onto the lower cam belt drive pulley . . . it had been
like this for 2 years and the previous owner (my father - hence I know the
history) had just topped the oil up (how he broke the piston I'll never
know - lots of caravan towing perhaps, overheating probably) . . . when the
engine got stripped for rebuild the cambelt was absolutely SOAKED in engine
oil (like dripping, I kid you not), the entire cam belt casing was full of
oil contaminated dust/dirt/muck and I was amazed that there hadn't been a
problem with the belt . . . but it had done 30Kmiles in this state with no
belt problems whatsoever (well not belt ones) . . . so I wouldn't
necessarily put too much faith in the oil on your belt causes instant belt
death . . . I'm sure it isn't good for the rubber part of it (the teeth
primarily), but the strength in the belt is kevlar, which AFAIK is pretty
bombproof w.r.t OIL . . .
Fd
"Mike B" <m.bur...@bigfoot.obvious.com> wrote in message
news:CZAQ5.13769$8F2.1...@nnrp4.clara.net...
> "Mike Bees" <junk...@not.wel.com> wrote in message
news:8uuj7u$199$1...@avon.europe.sco.com...
> > "Dave" <da...@parva4.clara.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:5ae51tksfacl8tnnt...@4ax.com...
> > > I'm now wondering whether the cambelt breaking could indeed have been
> > > due to anti-freeze contamination?
> >
> > I'd very much expect cambelts to be reasonably resistant to the
> > various fluids that might might find flying around in an engine bay.
> > But if a cambelt-driven water pump siezes...
>
> They're not resistant to oil though - and that's probably the most common
> fluid to be lying about the place since it doesn't run off or dry out like
> water does...
>
> Mike
>
>
Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells
<nospa...@mam.nospam> wrote:
>Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells wrote:
>
>> I've seen oil strip the teeth of several cambelts. Cambelts are
>> uniquely placed where oil can leak onto them from one of several seals
>> (aside from someone not replacing the oil filler cap like my missus
>> did). You would think that with today's technology someone could come
>> up with an oil-resistant material that would do the job.
>
>But why would they bother?
>Car manufacturers wouldn't want to know as the service interval
>wouldn't be increased. Belt manufacturers would gain nothing as
>they wouldn't be able to sell more of them and few people would
>be willing to pay a higher price. Repairers certainly wouldn't
>gain anything.
Cambelts don't cost much anyway. I would be happy to pay twice the
price for a belt that could withstand an accidental oil contamination
in between service intervals.
Paul Beech
What's wrong with cogs and push-rods etc?
Seems to me now they've stopped 'em going rusty they need to find something
else to go wrong.
Next they'll be putting some electronic bits in that you can't see - let
alone mend...........
"Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" <disg...@tunbridge.wells> wrote in message
news:3a13e39...@news.ukgateway.net...
> On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 09:22:24 +0000, Willy Eckerslyke
> <nospa...@mam.nospam> wrote:
>
> >Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells wrote:
> >
> >> I've seen oil strip the teeth of several cambelts. Cambelts are
> >> uniquely placed where oil can leak onto them from one of several seals
> >> (aside from someone not replacing the oil filler cap like my missus
> >> did). You would think that with today's technology someone could come
> >> up with an oil-resistant material that would do the job.
> >
Dan
> uniquely placed where oil can leak onto them from one of several seals
> (aside from someone not replacing the oil filler cap like my missus
> did). You would think that with today's technology someone could come
> up with an oil-resistant material that would do the job.
I always assumed they had! But, as they say, never assume... Given that
most of the engine bay in a car of a certain age is usually coated, I
credited them with common sense when it wasn't due, I guess. I've had
belts coated with oily dirt before and replaced them, but more as a matter
of course than specifically because they were dirty.
Mike Bees
> Why do we need a bit of rubber doing such an important job?
There isn't any strength in the rubber. Your tyres do a pretty
important job...
> What's wrong with cogs and push-rods etc?
Cost of production probably. Some cars have chains (e.g. Saab)
but these are noisier and they still break (albeit later). The new
Ford 2 litre engine (confusingly still called a Zetec but this time
all alloy) uses either a chain or gears IIRC, so maybe there is
some 'progress'.
Mike
Dan
> Why do we need a bit of rubber doing such an important job?
It's not exactly a bit of rubber. I don't know what material it is, but
they're also reinforced by strong fibres which bear most of the load.
> What's wrong with cogs and push-rods etc?
> Seems to me now they've stopped 'em going rusty they need to find something
> else to go wrong.
> Next they'll be putting some electronic bits in that you can't see - let
> alone mend...........
Pushrod engines are horrible things. I'd take OHC any day, and belt drive
over chain drive. Chains last longer before they go but they're much more
expensive, difficult to fix, and preventive maintenance and inspection is
more tiresome. I think most pushrod engine camshafts are also chain, not
gear, driven.
Dave
messages on....
Hi All,
Final comments......
Phoned Halfords and the car is now ready (Friday evening as I type -
they've had it since Monday). I asked them to MOT it so they could
listen to the engine go bang if it was going to after so much
heart-surgery. :)
I expected them to find something to fail it on to try and reclaim a
bit of the £700 it's cost them to sort the engine out but they didn't!
The car is now ready to collect having passed the MOT with flying
colours. :-)
The whole episode has cost me £150 (water-pump, anti-freeze and MOT)
but I'm happy with the final outcome. I could've been looking at
nearly £1000 if they denied liability and/or stated a 12 month
guarentee.
Andy :-
I realise I was slightly over with the 13,000 mile major service, I
don't normally overrun services. However, I'm using fully-synthetic
oil so that should offer a better degree of protection. :)
Thanks once again to everyone who offered advice. I'm still a bit
weary of Halfords but they've done the right thing here and it does
instill some confidence in me that they have repaired the damage that
most garages would've run away from.
All in all, a happy ending.
Regards,
Dave
Guy King
from Dan <d.c.b...@durham.ac.uk> contains these words:
> I think most pushrod engine camshafts are also chain, not gear, driven.
2CVs are gear driven...if that helps!
--
Skipweasel...
I must down to the shed again,
to the joyful sheddy life,
To the last’s way and the pie’s way
where life’s like a lost Stanley knife;
Mike B
> Hi All,
>
> Final comments......
>
> Phoned Halfords and the car is now ready (Friday evening as I type -
> they've had it since Monday). I asked them to MOT it so they could
> listen to the engine go bang if it was going to after so much
> heart-surgery. :)
>
> I expected them to find something to fail it on to try and reclaim a
> bit of the £700 it's cost them to sort the engine out but they didn't!
> The car is now ready to collect having passed the MOT with flying
> colours. :-)
This, of course, assumes that they actually did the MOT and didn't just
sign the form and give the whole thing a cursory once-over...
> I realise I was slightly over with the 13,000 mile major service, I
> don't normally overrun services. However, I'm using fully-synthetic
> oil so that should offer a better degree of protection. :)
There's more to servicing than changing the oil. In fact, an oil change
is probably one of the things that's not desperately needed after a specific
mileage. Worn brake pads which can consequently wreck the discs
too being one component which really should be inspected on-time.
Have fun when you get the car back!
Cheers
Mike
Bertie
>Hi All,
>
>I'm about to go into dispute with Halfords over a snapped cambelt and
>need some help here.
>
Nearly a year ago (just after Christmas) They serviced my car. About
500 miles later (one journey) the brakes failed. I took it to a local
garage (car under warranty) and they said the master cylinder had failed
due to there being oily contamination in the brake fluid!!!!!
Halfords refused to look at the car (against their customer relations
policy) and have refused to have anything to do with it. They
eventually agreed to test the brake fluid. They then reported that the
contamination wasn't oil so they weren't to blame!!! They refused to
test to find out what the contaminant was.
I have been through the full complaints procedure with them, right up to
head office. They keep referring it back to the local branch. The
manager there was extremely rude to me and slammed the phone down on me.
In my opinion Halfords are the worst company I have EVER dealt with as
they are not interested in listening or finding out what really did
happen.
I am hoping to be able to have the fluid tested myself, but it is very
expensive.
GOOD LUCK!
--
Bertie
Bertie
<da...@parva4.clara.co.uk> writes
>Hi All,
>
>Latest update :-
>
>Wife phoned Halfords this morning to be told the Service Manager has a
>day off. Brill! <Not> Anyway, the guy tells her that someone who was
>dealing with the car when it went in would phone after 10am.
>
>The wife diverted calls from my BT line to my mobile since she was off
>to work. Surprise, no calls right up till 3pm. I called them up and
>asked what the hell was happening.
>
opinion lying), hoping I would give up!
>
>Some strange goings on at Halfords!
Seems standard policy!
--
Bertie
Dave
On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 22:27:04 -0000, "Mike B"
<m.bur...@bigfoot.obvious.com> wrote:
>> Phoned Halfords and the car is now ready (Friday evening as I type -
>> they've had it since Monday). I asked them to MOT it so they could
>> listen to the engine go bang if it was going to after so much
>> heart-surgery. :)
>>
>> I expected them to find something to fail it on to try and reclaim a
>> bit of the £700 it's cost them to sort the engine out but they didn't!
>> The car is now ready to collect having passed the MOT with flying
>> colours. :-)
>
>This, of course, assumes that they actually did the MOT and didn't just
>sign the form and give the whole thing a cursory once-over...
Oh yes, they did it alright. They remarked that a brake hose was
kinked, n/s/r seatbelt was frayed, n/s/r shocker 'damp' and front
indicators 'faded'. Funny that, they remarked on the same indicators
last year. :)
>> I realise I was slightly over with the 13,000 mile major service, I
>> don't normally overrun services. However, I'm using fully-synthetic
>> oil so that should offer a better degree of protection. :)
>
>There's more to servicing than changing the oil. In fact, an oil change
>is probably one of the things that's not desperately needed after a specific
>mileage. Worn brake pads which can consequently wreck the discs
>too being one component which really should be inspected on-time.
I appreciate there's much more to it than the oil. I have a major
service once a year and the intermediate 6 month service is basically
an oil and filter job. I'm well aware of brakes and such like and take
no chances where safety is concerned. I also know the brakes are fine
since I've just spent £100 on two wheel-cylinders, brake disks and
pads within the last 8 weeks or so.....
I've had quite a few cars over the last 15 years from old bangers to
fairly recent models and each has presented its own problems. I've got
a pretty well-tuned ear with regards to any car problems that may crop
up. :) I knew that I had no suspension or braking problems with the
Escort before it did the MOT so I guess I was confident it would pass
but I was still surprised that they didn't manage to find something.
:)
Regards,
Dave
Dan
> from Dan <d.c.b...@durham.ac.uk> contains these words:
>> I think most pushrod engine camshafts are also chain, not gear, driven.
> 2CVs are gear driven...if that helps!
2CVs are weird, though. :-) Inboard disc brakes indeed. Who left their
umbrella in the dash anyway?