04 1.6 Meriva indicators. 'Common problem'?

[T i m]

Hi All,

The Mrs just came back with the Meriva and said the indicators weren't
working properly / at all.

When you apply the indicator, the instrument panel repeater flashes
faster than normal but no sign of any indicator lamps outside (tested
both sides). Similar with the hazard flashers, although they seemed to
'flash' at the right frequency internally, no lamps externally.

A quick Google seems to suggest it's 'just' the indicator relay (in
the box in the scuttle <grrr>) so before I bark my knuckles again (I
had to get the BCM out when the ECU was re-manufactured), would anyone
be so kind and confirm we are (most likely) just looking at the
indicator relay please?

Cheers, T i m

[rp]

This reminds me of a problem Vauxhalls used to have with the hazard
switch. The indicators were wired through it and when it failed so did
the indicators. Did she use the hazards immediately before the
indicators failed? The repeater will flash rapidly if the external
lamps aren't flashing.

--
Faster, cheaper, quieter than HS2
and built in 5 years;
UKUltraspeed <http://www.500kmh.com/>

[Adrian]

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 15:02:20 +0000, rp wrote:

> This reminds me of a problem Vauxhalls used to have with the hazard
> switch. The indicators were wired through it and when it failed so did
> the indicators.

Like probably EVERY SINGLE car with hazards before multiplexing.

[Mrcheerful]

ah yes, happy memories of stabbing the switch repeatedly at the MoT station.

[snot]

Yes, had the same on the ex's '55 plate Corsa.
Changed the relay and all was well.

--
Blow my nose to email me

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[T i m]

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 15:02:20 +0000 (GMT), "rp"
<r.p...@infohit.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 13:12:13 +0000, T i m wrote:
>
>>Hi All,
>>
>>The Mrs just came back with the Meriva and said the indicators weren't
>>working properly / at all.
>>
>>When you apply the indicator, the instrument panel repeater flashes
>>faster than normal but no sign of any indicator lamps outside (tested
>>both sides). Similar with the hazard flashers, although they seemed to
>>'flash' at the right frequency internally, no lamps externally.
>>
>>A quick Google seems to suggest it's 'just' the indicator relay (in
>>the box in the scuttle <grrr>) so before I bark my knuckles again (I
>>had to get the BCM out when the ECU was re-manufactured), would anyone
>>be so kind and confirm we are (most likely) just looking at the
>>indicator relay please?
>
>This reminds me of a problem Vauxhalls used to have with the hazard
>switch. The indicators were wired through it and when it failed so did
>the indicators. Did she use the hazards immediately before the
>indicators failed?

Not knowingly she didn't (and didn't cancel them after putting them on
accidentally).

>The repeater will flash rapidly if the external
>lamps aren't flashing.

I'm used to the typical 'one lamp blown' type fast flash but there is
no sign of any indicators at all in this case and that would generally
only apply to the side with the missing lamp.

One though has just come to mind though is that a good while back I
fitted a towbar and electrics and I have used it to tow a few times
since but the ball is of one of the 'swan-neck' detachable types and
the electrics tuck up out of the way (and weather). We haven't used
the car in any bad weather nor been though any floods or fords. ;-)

<checks in any case> Nope, all clean and dry. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 15:40:35 +0000, snot

<"kellerman(snot)2007"@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 10/11/2014 13:12, T i m wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> The Mrs just came back with the Meriva and said the indicators weren't
>> working properly / at all.
>>
>> When you apply the indicator, the instrument panel repeater flashes
>> faster than normal but no sign of any indicator lamps outside (tested
>> both sides). Similar with the hazard flashers, although they seemed to
>> 'flash' at the right frequency internally, no lamps externally.
>>
>> A quick Google seems to suggest it's 'just' the indicator relay (in
>> the box in the scuttle <grrr>) so before I bark my knuckles again (I
>> had to get the BCM out when the ECU was re-manufactured), would anyone
>> be so kind and confirm we are (most likely) just looking at the
>> indicator relay please?
>>
>> Cheers, T i m
>>
>Yes, had the same on the ex's '55 plate Corsa.
>Changed the relay and all was well.

Excellent, thanks for the feedback.

OOI, can you remember if it failed in both directions as I understand
the 'relay' is in fact two relays in the same casing, allowing some
l/r separation (or so I have read)?

Cheers, T i m

[Adrian]

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 16:00:58 +0000, T i m wrote:

> OOI, can you remember if it failed in both directions as I understand
> the 'relay' is in fact two relays in the same casing, allowing some l/r
> separation (or so I have read)?

Not usually. Back in pre-multiplex days, it was usually just one relay,
the output of which was directed to left or right by the stalk, or both
using the hazard switch to cut the stalk out.

These days, it's probably just software.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <uH48w.387513$Qu6.1...@fx24.am4>,

If a true switch where the circuits go through it - rather than relays or
solid state - they are actually quite complex. And often not much used. A
good clean restored many to health.

--
*When I'm not in my right mind, my left mind gets pretty crowded *

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[T i m]

Understood.

>
>These days, it's probably just software.

Sure, doing the logic, reading the input switches and driving the
output switches but aren't there are still switches (as you say above,
solid state or electro/magnetic), doing the actual work of turning the
lamps on / off (centrally or remotely)?

Or are you saying that it's the software that is broken? ;-)

I have the replacement relay (£19.95 + Vat) and I hope my mate can
find me a bit of space and time in his (heated) garage tomorrow for me
to fit it.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

So, I changed the indicator relay and the fault was exactly the same.

I then removed the 'trailer' audible warning indicator as that is
connected to both indicators and ground (thinking if that had failed
it could be shorting all indicator lamps to earth), no difference.

Then, not knowing what else to do I checked the fuse for the
indicators ... and guess what, it was blown ...

Replaced the fuse and the indicators were fine again (doh!).

Now, I haven't re-connected the audible indicator but I will, to test
if it was that that caused the fuse to blow (and because it's supposed
to be there) but whilst I'm glad it is sorted, I'm frustrated I didn't
check the fuse first, that there didn't seem to be loads of Google
hits saying 'it was just a fuse on mine ...' as it looked like it had
power as it was all working (albeit fast etc) on the inside of the
car?

Anyway, I'm posting this update just in case anyone else forgets to do
the basics first ... ;-(

Cheers and thanks to all who replied etc.

T i m

[snot]

On her flavour of Corsa (55 plate pre fancy electronics) it's quite a
large box with lots of pins - it was not working on one side.

[snot]

Interesting.
Defo the relay on the ex's Corsa, fuse was OK (one side worked fine
anyway) and the replacement relay fixed it.

[T i m]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:02:51 +0000, snot
<"kellerman(snot)2007"@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

>> OOI, can you remember if it failed in both directions as I understand
>> the 'relay' is in fact two relays in the same casing, allowing some
>> l/r separation (or so I have read)?
>>
>>

>On her flavour of Corsa (55 plate pre fancy electronics) it's quite a
>large box with lots of pins - it was not working on one side.

Thanks for that.

I read elsewhere that is was in fact two relays in one and when I
popped the top off that's exactly what I found.

I think the key between what you saw and what I did was yours was
still working on one side (meaning the fuse was ok).

The long post near the middle here seems to suggest that the relay
could affect both sides (at once):

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=61754

and

http://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/index.php?threads/meriva-indicators-acting-funny.203417/

and no mention of a fuse anywhere. ;-)

I've bought a 5 pin plug and socket and will plug the towing sounder
back in (rather than having it hard wired) so I can isolate it easily
if the fuse blows again.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:06:32 +0000, snot
<"kellerman(snot)2007"@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

>> Replaced the fuse and the indicators were fine again (doh!).
>>
>> Now, I haven't re-connected the audible indicator but I will, to test
>> if it was that that caused the fuse to blow (and because it's supposed
>> to be there) but whilst I'm glad it is sorted, I'm frustrated I didn't
>> check the fuse first, that there didn't seem to be loads of Google
>> hits saying 'it was just a fuse on mine ...' as it looked like it had
>> power as it was all working (albeit fast etc) on the inside of the
>> car?
>>
>> Anyway, I'm posting this update just in case anyone else forgets to do
>> the basics first ... ;-(
>>
>> Cheers and thanks to all who replied etc.
>>

>Interesting.

Well, sort of. ;-)

>Defo the relay on the ex's Corsa, fuse was OK (one side worked fine
>anyway) and the replacement relay fixed it.

Yes, as I have since said elsewhere, I think that was a (very) key
difference. Unless there is any way the 'relay' (which is in fact two
relays in one pot) could cause it to fail on both sides
simultaneously, it still working on just one side rules out the fuse
and points towards the relay (or 3 lamps going on the same side at
once). ;-)

I was trying to link the semi recent use of the trailer with the
failing of the indicators but I know the indicators were working with
the trailer (because the audible indicator is pretty loud) and have
been working afterwards as well. It might have just been one of those
things but I guess time will tell. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[snot]

Have a good look around the trailer wiring both in the car and on the
trailer. Look inside the plug and socket for exposed wiring. You've
probably got an intermittent short.

[T i m]

On Sun, 16 Nov 2014 09:23:20 +0000, snot
<"kellerman(snot)2007"@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>
>>

>> I was trying to link the semi recent use of the trailer with the
>> failing of the indicators but I know the indicators were working with
>> the trailer (because the audible indicator is pretty loud) and have
>> been working afterwards as well. It might have just been one of those
>> things but I guess time will tell. ;-)
>>
>>

>Have a good look around the trailer wiring both in the car and on the
>trailer. Look inside the plug and socket for exposed wiring. You've
>probably got an intermittent short.

Whilst it's not impossible, *I* have wired all that up and have a
reputation for doing so neatly and without compromise.

One error, cutting one wire too short or nicking some insulation and
it all comes out (or I cut it back if I can) and I start again. ;-)

The Mrs has also questioned me when doing domestic plumbing etc.

Her. And what is wrong with that section of waste pipe?

Me. It's a couple of mm too short.

Her. So, will it leak or something?

Me. I doubt it.

Her. So why are you replacing it?

Me. Because it's not right ... ;-)

Given the Meriva indicators were working after I last used the trailer
and daughter has used it several times since, I think we can (now /
further) rule out (solid) issues with the trailer (and she has a
similarly aged Corsa that is still fine). ;-)

I've since put one of the Tyco 5 pin plugs on the trailer repeater
audible indicator and if the weather holds up for a bit tomorrow, will
solder a mating connector to the car loom inside the o/s rear light
area. That way I can easily test / isolate / replace that module, in
case the fuse blows again.

Of course, time will tell on all of it and now my eyes aren't what
they were ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2014 22:02:11 +0000, T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:

<snip>

>I've bought a 5 pin plug and socket and will plug the towing sounder
>back in (rather than having it hard wired) so I can isolate it easily
>if the fuse blows again.
>

Which I have now done ... plugged it all back together and the
indicators worked fine (no blown fuse).

So I hooked the trailer wiring up and checked again, still A-Ok,
trailer connected 'audible repeater' also doing it's thing.

So, it's either something intermittent (remembering it went many days
after using the trailer and daughter has used it behind her Corsa a
few times since with no issues), or just one of those
fuse_becoming_weakened_over_time ... like if when an indicator lamp
fails maybe?

Anyway, thanks for the replies guys.

Cheers, T i m