New generic radio and CANBUS issues?

[Tim Watts]

Hi,

Not done this yet - but my research is ambiguous and I'm stuck...

The stock radio (Blaupunkt RCD300) on my 2006 VW Touran is wired into
the CANBUS - I've seen it on the diag unit.

I want to chuck that radio out and put a decent generic Sony (or
similar) one in that has media capabilities (eg Bluetooth, AUX in, USB).

I do not have any fancy steering radio control knobs fitted and I do not
want to fit a radio with GPS which is a good reason why the CANBUS might
be needed (speed signals for one).


Anyone with any VW experience should be able to comment - I don't think
there's much special about a 2006 Touran vs any other VW of similar age.




There appear to be 2 ways:

1) Simple wiring adaptor - this needs a switched ignition feed brought
in from the fusebox (not on the VW harness) and also (though more
optionally) something wired to the sidelights to feed the "illumination"
control line on the new radio.

2) Buy a CANBUS equipped wiring harness adpator that presents switched-
Ignition (effectively) and illumination signals from the CANBUS data -
which is how the RCD300 deals with these.


And lastly:

3) Is an antenna booster needed?



I've seen a alot of information that is inconsistent:

a) For (1) above, some say that ripping the factory radio off the CANBUS
causes the main battery to go flat as "the system constantly probes for
the missing radio".

b) A professional fitter said he never used CANBUS adaptors as they were
expensive, and he'd heard of them causing problems. He always added a
fused lead to the ignition via the fusebox (you know what I mean) and
did not bother with the illumination signal though

c) Which CANBUS adaptor is any good - they cost between £40 to £100+


Which is the safest way that actually works? It used to be so simple :(

Cheers,

Tim

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal
coverage

[Adrian C]

On 14/01/2014 15:22, Tim Watts wrote:
>
>
> Which is the safest way that actually works? It used to be so simple :(
>

Simples, find space to mount the old radio hidden behind the dash and
pinch an illumination signal from its internal lighting ...

--
A Bodger

[Tim Watts]

On Tuesday 14 January 2014 16:36 Adrian C wrote in
uk.rec.cars.maintenance:

Haha...

[Duncan Wood]

It's not removing it, it's the VW non-standard wiring means if you don't
use a VW harness it pulls the power aerial feed to ground

> b) A professional fitter said he never used CANBUS adaptors as they were
> expensive, and he'd heard of them causing problems. He always added a
> fused lead to the ignition via the fusebox (you know what I mean) and
> did not bother with the illumination signal though
>

You probably want a more professional fitter!

[Tim Watts]

On Wednesday 15 January 2014 09:01 Duncan Wood wrote in
uk.rec.cars.maintenance:


Hi Duncan,

> It's not removing it, it's the VW non-standard wiring means if you
> don't use a VW harness it pulls the power aerial feed to ground

Ah - thank you for that. Is this by any chance the "yellow/red wire"
thing? (or similar colours - can't remember exactly - I came across
something on google about certain older wiring adaptors needing a wire
or pair of wires modified)?

>> b) A professional fitter said he never used CANBUS adaptors as they
>> were expensive, and he'd heard of them causing problems. He always
>> added a fused lead to the ignition via the fusebox (you know what I
>> mean) and did not bother with the illumination signal though
>>
>
> You probably want a more professional fitter!

This is the bane of my life - nearly every "professional" I employ[1]
needs something fixed up afterwards. Everyone's happy with "just good
enough" rather than "properly done".

[1] Which isn't that many because it's actually easier in many cass to
DIY it as I know I'll take more care...


I'm tempted to fit the thing myself - I was hoping to avoid the endless
research, but it looks like I'll have to do that just to check them out!

I did ask VW if they'd do it - Nope. But they would sell me a VW
approved Kenwood for £1000!

>> c) Which CANBUS adaptor is any good - they cost between £40 to £100+

Would you recommend a CANBUS adaptor or just a decent wiring adaptor
(with mods made as necessary)? Either way am I likely to need VAGCOM or
someone with VAGCOM to recode anything?


All the best!

[Adrian C]

On 15/01/2014 10:11, Tim Watts wrote:
> On Wednesday 15 January 2014 09:01 Duncan Wood wrote in
> uk.rec.cars.maintenance:

>> It's not removing it, it's the VW non-standard wiring means if you
>> don't use a VW harness it pulls the power aerial feed to ground

??

> Ah - thank you for that. Is this by any chance the "yellow/red wire"
> thing? (or similar colours - can't remember exactly - I came across
> something on google about certain older wiring adaptors needing a wire
> or pair of wires modified)?
>
>>> b) A professional fitter said he never used CANBUS adaptors as they
>>> were expensive, and he'd heard of them causing problems. He always
>>> added a fused lead to the ignition via the fusebox (you know what I
>>> mean) and did not bother with the illumination signal though

Ok, me serious hat on.

Not VW, but I've got a 2004 Skoda Octavia that I've replaced the stock
Symphony radio with a Kenwood. Previous to the install I was aware of
the CANBUS connection on the car's ISO connector and verified that on
the new set it don't connect anywhere, I'd no interest in features from
that - and really didn't want to connect unnecessary things there that
could later cause expensive problems with the ECU. This car is
complicated enough with my other unecessary things... ;-)

FWIW My vagcom does log a fault code -

01304 - Radio
49-00 - No Communications

But I've not had a flat battery from ECU polling that fact.

I can understand flat batterys from not switching the red/yellow leads
as ye are instructed to do for VW family vehicles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connectors_for_car_audio

One lead is switched live, the other is unswitched live. The latter is
used (still?) to keep the radio's memory contents and power close
connected electric aerials after ignition off. If wired the wrong way,
the radio will not turn off when the ignition keys are removed - and
that will be a flat battery (eventually...).

>> You probably want a more professional fitter!
>
> This is the bane of my life - nearly every "professional" I employ[1]
> needs something fixed up afterwards. Everyone's happy with "just good
> enough" rather than "properly done".

+1!

--
Adrian C

[Tim Watts]

Hi adrian,

On Wednesday 15 January 2014 12:16 Adrian C wrote in
uk.rec.cars.maintenance:

>

> Not VW, but I've got a 2004 Skoda Octavia that I've replaced the stock
> Symphony radio with a Kenwood. Previous to the install I was aware of
> the CANBUS connection on the car's ISO connector and verified that on
> the new set it don't connect anywhere, I'd no interest in features
> from that - and really didn't want to connect unnecessary things there
> that could later cause expensive problems with the ECU. This car is
> complicated enough with my other unecessary things... ;-)
>
> FWIW My vagcom does log a fault code -
>
> 01304 - Radio
> 49-00 - No Communications
>
> But I've not had a flat battery from ECU polling that fact.

Ah - OK - that's good to know...

> I can understand flat batterys from not switching the red/yellow leads
> as ye are instructed to do for VW family vehicles.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connectors_for_car_audio

That is useful - thanks. Feels more "old school" now. I do know that
mine has the Quadlock connector and that that needs an adaptor to fit
the back of most radios.

I think, armed with that knowledge, I feel competant to make the
required checks.

> One lead is switched live, the other is unswitched live. The latter is
> used (still?) to keep the radio's memory contents and power close
> connected electric aerials after ignition off. If wired the wrong way,
> the radio will not turn off when the ignition keys are removed - and
> that will be a flat battery (eventually...).

I wonder how it came about that those ot reversed on some setups?

There does seem to be a consensus that some Tourans (at least) do not
have the illumination or switched +12V - did you find that on your
Octavia?

>>> You probably want a more professional fitter!
>>
>> This is the bane of my life - nearly every "professional" I employ[1]
>> needs something fixed up afterwards. Everyone's happy with "just good
>> enough" rather than "properly done".
>
> +1!
>

This is starting to feel like DIY time. Why pay £85 to a fitter that I
have no confidence in...

Cheers - and thanks!

[Chris Bartram]

I've done that on my Skoda fabia, turned out as you described. However,
things may be different on a 2006 Touran. ISTR that the battery issue
was caused by an earlier CAN gateway, and upgrading to the latest cures
that.

*searches*

Ah. Found it. It's if you fit an OEM Satnav unit to an earlier car:

www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/184742-can-gateways

Anyway, is this any help?

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=393618

It suggests that you'll need to mod the wiring to supply switched 12v,
but also suggests a cable for the wheel controls, which seems to take
care of the power too?

http://www.connects2downloads.co.uk/c2/files/InstallationGuides/CTSST001.2.pdf

Obviously this is for a 1P Leon, but I'll bet there's one for the
Touran, it's all PQ35 platform.

Also have a look at

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=378927

[Tim Watts]

On Wednesday 15 January 2014 19:41 Chris Bartram wrote in
uk.rec.cars.maintenance:

> I've done that on my Skoda fabia, turned out as you described.
> However, things may be different on a 2006 Touran. ISTR that the
> battery issue was caused by an earlier CAN gateway, and upgrading to
> the latest cures that.
>

Thanks for all that. I chanced upon the Connects2 website (they make
CANBUS radio adaptors) and their link of resellers led me to these guys:

http://www.autosolutions-ltd.co.uk/

They're quite near me. Had a chat and they sound like they know what
they are about. They say they are VAGCOM equipped so coding stuff in is
not a problem. They did relate one horror story where they had to
upgrade firmware in the car (gateway thingy I assume). But they said
they were equipped to sort out weirdnesses properly and had VW expertise
- and absolutely recommended using a CANBUS adaptor rather than hacking
wires into the fusebox.

They cautioned against me buying a random head as the problem above was
due to a certain make and model of radio not playing nicely.

So I told them my requirements (AUX in, USB with Android support and USB
MP3, and Bluetooth) and asked what they would recommend. The answer was
a Pioneer DEH4600BT.

The all in fitting cost including supply of the head and parts would be
about the same as me supplying my original choice of Sony head and
someone bodging it in.

I need to read some reviews of that Pioneer, but I'm fairly sold on Auto
Solutions - having studied the subject matter, they seem to take the
problems seriously.

If anyone has an opinion on the Pioneer heads, I'd welcome that...

In all probablity, I may take the route of buying several cheap USB
flashkeys and loading each one with a theme of tracks - it removes the
temptation to keep poking the phone (mounted on the dash as a GPS) while
driving and picking up a USB key and shoving it in is more natural to
me.

Having said that, BT is still useful.

Cheers!