Timing belt snapped - Bad?
paulfoel
Scenic. Bad news....
Whats the worst / best case scenario here?
Its V reg 1999 with 72000 miles so I'm wondering whether its worth it
economically....
A C
paulfoel
A C wrote:
> Which engine?
>
1600 petrol automatic.
A C
Any ideas of the cause? Broken tensioner / waterpump?
Maybe an idea (if you can), to remove the head & see what damage there is.
If only the valves are bent then replace them & refit (if this is beyond
you, get a garage to the work)
If the pistons are damaged then buy a replacement engine from a wrecked car.
paulfoel
> Any ideas of the cause? Broken tensioner / waterpump?
>
> Maybe an idea (if you can), to remove the head & see what damage there is.
> If only the valves are bent then replace them & refit (if this is beyond
> you, get a garage to the work)
> If the pistons are damaged then buy a replacement engine from a wrecked car.
I was wondering what sort of engine it was. It had to be the 'wrong'
type didnt it?
Dont know why it snapped. Havent seen it. Wife has got RAC to tow to
Nationwide autocentres for diagnosis.
Any idea of the cost if its only the valves?
If its the pistons is that deffo a new engine needed then? Wonder if
its even economically worth it...
Sandy Nuts
"paulfoel" <BertieB...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1156867162.6...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Well not 'deffo', but it's not worth the labour replacing the pistons when a
replacement engine would be so much more simple. I wouldn't even replace the
valves if they are bent as you're looking at a minimum of 4...then there's
no guarentee that there's been no damage to the guides, followers, camshaft
or even the head itself. Get a scrap head.
Doki
>
> A C wrote:
>> Which engine?
>>
>
> 1600 petrol automatic.
It's a Renault Auto. Scrap it now. You'll rebuild the top end of the engine
to have the autobox die within the next 30k. Get something with a decent
Autobox (ie, a BMW, Merc, Lexus or Jag).
Coyoteboy
Do the work yourself, knowing all the possible hidden damage etc?
300-400 approx including buying cam-belt tools. Getting it done
elsewhere probably nearer 1000 with a guarantee. it MAY be cheaper to
drop in a used engine if you know its in good condition.
J
Tim S Kemp
Another option - stick a new belt on, if it runs go and part-ex it for
something else.
It's a french car, so I'm not gonna ever come across it.
--
Someone left the cake out in the rain/I don't think that I can take
it/'cause it took so long to bake it/And I'll never have that recipe
again
PC Paul
> RAC just confirmed that timing belt snapped on my wifes Renault Megane
> Scenic. Bad news....
>
> Whats the worst / best case scenario here?
>
I'm really sorry to have to break it to you, but even best case it'll still
be a Renault.
David Hearn
Economically worth it at a "Nationwide Autocentres" place? No chance.
In my experience, they're overpriced and try to scam you.
Free brake check? I wish. ;) I went there because I had a sticking
rear brakes on a 306 when releasing the handbrake.
Went there for a free check (expecting new shoes being required). Got
told I had leaking rear cylinders ("they've exploded mate"). Fine -
I'll get them fixed. "Sorry, can't let you leave with them like that -
they're dangerous. Also, you need new front disks and pads." Basically
they refused to let me take the car away to my normal garage - which
potentially is right if it was dangerous.
Anyway - they worked out the cost - £465. This was a surprise to me so
I queried this, only to be told I had special brake cylinders in the
rear and were £110 each (so £220). This seemed expensive to me for what
is quite a simple device - but I was on my lunch break, needed the car
the next day, couldn't take it elsewhere for a second opinion/quote and
had to make a decision there and then. I reluctantly said okay.
They charged around £40 for "delipping the rear drums", which someone on
here pointed out was a quick run around with an angle grinder - nothing
difficult or time consuming. They also charged, I think, £40 for
flushing the brake fluid - even though they'd have to do that to replace
the cylinders, and had already charged for that in the pricing of that work.
The next day I phoned around my local garage and my Peugeot dealer.
Dealer wanted £400 for the work using genuine Peugeot parts and their
overpriced labour. My local garage couldn't give an accurate quote (but
did a low spec and high spec variant accurate quote) as they didn't know
the exact parts which were originally on the car (parts hadn't been kept
or offered, my mistake) - but if I had some high spec sports brake
system (vented discs etc) they said the amount charged might be fair,
but £350 to £400 was more likely for a basic spec.
I did manage to get them to price match the Peugeot dealer, and after
about 8 weeks got a cheque from their head office, and they also did
give me Tesco Clubcard points - but from my experience, they use
(probably common) dodgy tactics to force you to go ahead with their
work. £400 from a Peugeot dealer for the work is expected.
Just be careful, and don't be afraid to get a second opinion - don't
assume they're on your side, or that they're cheaper than a main dealer.
D
adde...@yahoo.co.uk
David Hearn wrote:
>
> Economically worth it at a "Nationwide Autocentres" place? No chance.
> In my experience, they're overpriced and try to scam you.
>
Every year at MoT time they quote me £350 for a recon propshaft when
all I need to do is get round to fitting the £10 rubber propshaft
bearing carrier, and they always tell me "get it done soon 'cos it's
dangerous mate" as they write/print out the pass certificate. They
also quoted stupid money to replace the wishbones.
Took a different car in recently and it seems like they decided to only
do half an MoT, failing the car on some items but not others which were
clearly failures. Then they decided that they didn't want to honour
the free-retest coupon that I had. I think they get fed-up 'cos I
never give them any work.
As for the OP, you could try fitting a new belt and seeing if the
engine will turn over (by hand). It still might not run though. You
need to look for a used head on ebay then pay a regular garage a few
hundred to fit it. ...but as others have said the best thing you can
do with a renault auto is scrap it :-)
paulfoel
Excuse my ignorance. So would a replacement head include everything
that has possibly been damaged ???
Or is this the new engine? Would I need to get a replacement engine and
gearbox? (Its an automatic).
Where would I get a scrap engine from? Scrap yard I presume. Roughly
how much? How much to fit?
paulfoel
Not a fan of Renault automatics then ? :-)
My car is a Merc auto which is great !
paulfoel
Nah. Dont think I could do it myself !
paulfoel
> In my experience, they're overpriced and try to scam you.
I find them OK.
>
> Free brake check? I wish. ;) I went there because I had a sticking
> rear brakes on a 306 when releasing the handbrake.
>
> Went there for a free check (expecting new shoes being required). Got
> told I had leaking rear cylinders ("they've exploded mate"). Fine -
> I'll get them fixed. "Sorry, can't let you leave with them like that -
> they're dangerous. Also, you need new front disks and pads." Basically
> they refused to let me take the car away to my normal garage - which
> potentially is right if it was dangerous.
Its your car. You could have told them to f**K off !
paulfoel
Tim S Kemp wrote:
> Coyoteboy <coyot...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > paulfoel wrote:
> >> RAC just confirmed that timing belt snapped on my wifes Renault
> >> Megane Scenic. Bad news....
> >>
> >> Whats the worst / best case scenario here?
> >>
> >> Its V reg 1999 with 72000 miles so I'm wondering whether its worth it
> >> economically....
> >
> > Do the work yourself, knowing all the possible hidden damage etc?
> > 300-400 approx including buying cam-belt tools. Getting it done
> > elsewhere probably nearer 1000 with a guarantee. it MAY be cheaper to
> > drop in a used engine if you know its in good condition.
>
> Another option - stick a new belt on, if it runs go and part-ex it for
> something else.
>
> It's a french car, so I'm not gonna ever come across it.
>
>
(wouldnt sell it privately though)...
Wife did say engine was still running after it happened. She heard a
pop and lost all power and pulled over. At the time the engine was
still running. Wouldnt restart though.
magicman
"David Hearn" <da...@NOswampieSPAM.org.uk> wrote in message
news:4ll0arF...@individual.net...
Hmmm can they legally keep your car there ?
Personally I would've taken it back and told them to sod off.
Adrian
like they were saying :
> Anyway - they worked out the cost - £465. This was a surprise to me
> so I queried this, only to be told I had special brake cylinders in
> the rear and were £110 each (so £220).
GSF list several 306 rear cylinders. The most expensive is £18.50 each.
Rear shoes - £15-20 set
Front pads - £15-30 set
Front disks - £12-30 each
You could get ALL the parts for the price they charged you for ONE
cylinder... Even a rear caliper would only be £60 if you had disks.
> They charged around £40 for "delipping the rear drums", which someone
> on here pointed out was a quick run around with an angle grinder
Or, preferably, a quick spin in a lathe. Keeps 'em round and helps not get
bits in the bearing. I had a pair of out-of-round drums machined for (IIRC)
about a tenner each by a local engineering firm.
FFS, NEW 306 drums are only £25-30 each...
> They also charged, I think, £40 for flushing the brake fluid
<boggle>
> - even though they'd have to do that to replace the cylinders
There's still the front to do, of course.
> and they also did give me Tesco Clubcard points
Woo.
> Just be careful, and don't be afraid to get a second opinion - don't
> assume they're on your side, or that they're cheaper than a main
> dealer.
More to the point, it IS safe to assume that any national chain fast-fit
centre is a total ripoff.
Sandy Nuts
>> Well not 'deffo', but it's not worth the labour replacing the pistons
>> when a
>> replacement engine would be so much more simple. I wouldn't even replace
>> the
>> valves if they are bent as you're looking at a minimum of 4...then
>> there's
>> no guarentee that there's been no damage to the guides, followers,
>> camshaft
>> or even the head itself. Get a scrap head.
>
> Excuse my ignorance. So would a replacement head include everything
> that has possibly been damaged ???
Providing that the pistons have not been holed then yes. The biggest weak
point in valve to piston contact is the valve train itself. There are the
odd occasions where valves will fight back and the valve will put a hole in
the piston - easily spotted. Naturally there will be a slight chip or pit in
the piston, but providing it's not too much it should be safe.
> Or is this the new engine? Would I need to get a replacement engine and
> gearbox? (Its an automatic).
A new engine would replace everything that can possibly fuck up. Your only
real option if the pistons are shagged. Ideally source an auto engine so you
can keep a spare gearbox (it's a Renault, you'll need one) and you don't
need to mess about with replacing the flywheel with your torque convertor.
There is also the issue that the torque convertor might not bolt to a manual
engines crank, but I doubt most mass produced engines would have custom
cranks for different transmissions.
> Where would I get a scrap engine from? Scrap yard I presume. Roughly
> how much? How much to fit?
Scrap yard is the best bet. If it's the 1.6 then I'd imagine most Megane's,
Laguna's etc of that vintage will share the same lump. If you source a
manual, double check to make sure the torque convertor will bolt to the
crank. Engines vary in price. You're only looking for the lump itself, so
don't waste money on alternator, PAS pumps, A/C pumps, electronics etc.
Talking perhaps £2-400, then about the same for fitting (depending on how
much your chosen mechanic likes engine swaps).
Good luck anyway!
CWatters
"Sandy Nuts" <p...@these.com> wrote in message
news:3WiJg.11187$r61....@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Providing that the pistons have not been holed then yes. The biggest weak
> point in valve to piston contact is the valve train itself. There are the
> odd occasions where valves will fight back and the valve will put a hole
in
> the piston - easily spotted.
Saw an engine once where the valve had snapped off. The valve had then
turned 90 degrees and the piston had put two flat spots on the circumference
of the valve. Then on the next stroke it had turned a further 90 to leave it
"growing" out of the top of the piston like a mushroom.
David Hearn
True. But when the drums are off, the car is on the ramp, and they're
claiming they can't reassemble the drums as the cylinders have
'exploded', there's little I can do short of getting another garage to
pick it up - but they'd still need to reassemble the rear wheels.
I also was silly enough to put it in when I needed it to the next day -
which meant I didn't have the time to get another garage to pick up and
fix. That'll be the last time I go for a "oh, I'll take it in during
lunch for a quick check..." type jobs. ;)
I've learnt my lesson I hope. These 'free brake tests' aren't for real,
they're an excuse to get your car on a ramp, take it apart, and then
hold you to ransom.
D
David Hearn
With 2 wheels off, 2 drums missing and 2 'exploded' rear cylinders, and
up on a ramp, I wasn't about to just drive off with it. They claimed it
would be impossible to put it back together safely as the fluid had
leaked onto the shoes. Whether they could stop me is another matter,
but without 2 rear wheels, I wasn't going anywhere.
D
Doki
Look on google groups for Renault Automatic. They really do break a *lot*.
Adrian
like they were saying :
> but without 2 rear wheels, I wasn't going anywhere.
Couple of scaffold poles under the back bumper, and imagine it's a
wheelbarrow...
paulfoel
National just got back to me - £1600 !!!
Bit steep methinks !
adde...@yahoo.co.uk
Sandy Nuts wrote:
> >
> > Excuse my ignorance. So would a replacement head include everything
> > that has possibly been damaged ???
>
> Providing that the pistons have not been holed then yes. The biggest weak
> point in valve to piston contact is the valve train itself. There are the
> odd occasions where valves will fight back and the valve will put a hole in
> the piston - easily spotted. Naturally there will be a slight chip or pit in
> the piston, but providing it's not too much it should be safe.
If you get a head from a breakers then generally they are complete with
valvetrain etc but you need to make sure. ..and you need to make sure
the reason the car isn't in the breakers is because of a knackered
head. Most places will offer a guarantee which only means that once
you've found that the item is faulty they'll give you another one.
Usually if you just specify "a head" then that's all you'll get - no
valvetrain etc.
In my younger days I used to pull and replace heads and it would take
between half and hour and a few hours depending on the car. I would
guess that if you sourced a repalcement head then it might cost maybe
300-400 quid for a more backstreet garage to fit it. Probably same
price for an engine/tranny in out job.
Look on ebay there's bound to be several renaults on there with good
engine's but knackered gearboxes :-)
Incidentally, my dad "fixed" his gearbox by using some lucas "auto
gearbox rejuvinator" after flushing the oil several times.
PC Paul
Or open the sunroof. It's a skip.
Sandy Nuts
National just got back to me - £1600 !!!
Bit steep methinks !
---------------
National are wankers. Wouldn't trust those spanner monkeys with an alarm
clock. Find a small independant, they'll be alot cheaper!
paulfoel
I've now found an independent engine specialist not too far from me
that will supply and fit a whole recon engine for £745 + VAT.
Sounds like a better deal than £1600 to 'repair' the old engine !!!