Volvo V70 D5 rough idle

[Alan Deane]

My Volvo 2004 V70 D5 diesel has developed a rough idle. It's got plenty
of miles on it (227k) but otherwise is running fine. I suspect this has
gradually got worse but I only noticed it yesterday for the first time,
and the engine cut out once while sitting in traffic with a 'Urgent
engine service required' (or similar) message on the dash. It restarted
fine and hasn't cut out since.

I've not been able to read the fault codes yet, as I'm away from home,
and the reader isn't with me.
I notice that the engine shakes more than it should when idling with the
bonnet open, and it sounds like the idle speed is wandering a little -
but not enough to show on the rev counter.

I notice a small puddle of liquid around one of the injectors and it's
more grubby than the rest (small leak?) but not enough to be worrying.

The car is serviced when it asks and generally is run on decent fuel,
however the previous tank was supermarket stuff.

I suspect the electronic throttle body may need cleaning, or a vacuum
leak. Apparently the vacuum engine mounts can leak on these.

I've cleaned up a throttle body on a petrol V70 recently which cured
it's idle issues, so hopefully this is the same.
I *do* have a tool kit with me so will get come carb cleaner later and
see what I can do in the hotel car park tonight!

Any other suggestions or things I should look at?

Alan.

[Tim..]

"Alan Deane" <alz_...@ajdeane.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c09e8$5018f095$d4b78084$14...@usenext.xennanews.com...

> My Volvo 2004 V70 D5 diesel has developed a rough idle. It's got plenty of
> miles on it (227k) but otherwise is running fine. I suspect this has
> gradually got worse but I only noticed it yesterday for the first time,
> and the engine cut out once while sitting in traffic with a 'Urgent engine
> service required' (or similar) message on the dash. It restarted fine and
> hasn't cut out since.
>
> I've not been able to read the fault codes yet, as I'm away from home, and
> the reader isn't with me.
> I notice that the engine shakes more than it should when idling with the
> bonnet open, and it sounds like the idle speed is wandering a little - but
> not enough to show on the rev counter.
>
> I notice a small puddle of liquid around one of the injectors and it's
> more grubby than the rest (small leak?) but not enough to be worrying.
>

Certainly clean the throttle body, and EGR valve, which at that mileage will
be very caked up....

How does it start from cold? The misfire could well be an injector on its
way out, which will be leaking back and often the tell tale sign is extended
cranking when cold, and/or a worse misfire for afew seconds....

Tim.

[Alan Deane]

>
> Certainly clean the throttle body, and EGR valve, which at that mileage
> will be very caked up....
>
> How does it start from cold? The misfire could well be an injector on
> its way out, which will be leaking back and often the tell tale sign is
> extended cranking when cold, and/or a worse misfire for afew seconds....
>
> Tim.
>

This evening I have removed the 'T' piece from the EGR valve output, and
the hose from there to the input manifold. Both were fairly caked in
black gunge, so I have cleaned them with carb cleaner (in Halfords car
park!) so both are now clean.
The EGR valve output is a bit dirty, but not as bad as I was expecting.
I've not attempted to remove that yet due to limited tools / facilities
where I am.

So far it seems much the same.

There doesn't appear to be a throttle valve - pipework appears to go:
Air filter > MAF sensor > Turbo > Intercooler > EGR 'T' piece > Manifold.

Cold start-up is usually fine, but occasionally (maybe once a month) I
get a rough start where it appears to only run on 2 or 3 cylinders for a
few seconds then dies. Always cured by switch-off and re-start.

Home tomorrow (~200 miles) so hopefully it's OK for the journey - but at
least this fault seems to only affect idle. It cut out again today
(before clean) when trying to pull away.
I'll read the codes tomorrow night and report back.

Would a restricted EGR valve cause idle issues?
Or maybe it's an injector or two getting tired?

[Tim..]

"Alan Deane" <alz_...@ajdeane.co.uk> wrote in message

news:b6229$50198a73$d4b78083$26...@usenext.xennanews.com...

Without looking at the car, I would suggest an injector getting tired,
however, I would also advise a compression test before you start flinging
injectors at it just to be sure of the overall condition of the engine- and
then an injector leak off test both hot and cold for both...

Tim..

[Alan Deane]

> Without looking at the car, I would suggest an injector getting tired,
> however, I would also advise a compression test before you start
> flinging injectors at it just to be sure of the overall condition of the
> engine- and then an injector leak off test both hot and cold for both...
>
> Tim..
>

OK, drove home with no issues and read the codes:

P0244 - Turbo wastegate solenoid
P0087 - Fuel Pressure too low
P0094 - Fuel leak detected

I cleared the codes and took it for a drive. On booting it it came up
with 'engine service required' and went into limp home mode (2500 rpm
max). Code P0244 returned but no others. Cleared code again and after
lots of booting no codes on return.

I've trawled the forums tonight, and it seems P0244 is the same as Volvo
code ECM6805, which can be caused by vacuum leak issues, especially in
the front vacuum damped engine mount. These are disabled past 1500 rpm
which certainly fits my previous symptoms.
The mount is easy to bypass, so will do that tomorrow, and see if the
issue re-occurs.
Next checks will be the turbo control solenoid and the turbo control
actuator - I believe it's a variable vane type.

No ideas on the fuel pressure issues, or how long those codes have been
there, so will ignore them for now, unless they return.

MPG is unchanged, and no oil being used, so don't think it's a
compression issue at this stage.

[Mrcheerful]

Alan Deane wrote:
>> Without looking at the car, I would suggest an injector getting
>> tired, however, I would also advise a compression test before you
>> start flinging injectors at it just to be sure of the overall
>> condition of the engine- and then an injector leak off test both hot
>> and cold for both... Tim..
>>
>
> OK, drove home with no issues and read the codes:
>
> P0244 - Turbo wastegate solenoid
> P0087 - Fuel Pressure too low
> P0094 - Fuel leak detected
>
> I cleared the codes and took it for a drive. On booting it it came up
> with 'engine service required' and went into limp home mode (2500 rpm
> max). Code P0244 returned but no others. Cleared code again and after
> lots of booting no codes on return.
>
> I've trawled the forums tonight, and it seems P0244 is the same as
> Volvo code ECM6805, which can be caused by vacuum leak issues,
> especially in the front vacuum damped engine mount. These are
> disabled past 1500 rpm which certainly fits my previous symptoms.
> The mount is easy to bypass, so will do that tomorrow, and see if the
> issue re-occurs.
> Next checks will be the turbo control solenoid and the turbo control
> actuator - I believe it's a variable vane type.
>

I had a Vectra in once that kept coming up with several codes (inc. waste
gate and egr valve), I eventually traced the fault to a crack in a vacuum
actuator for the inlet swirl flaps.
The way I traced it was to find out the level of vacuum with everything
bypassed (so right at the pump) then reconnect bits (the vacuum should stay
the same except for momentary drops when things operate) After narrowing
down which side of the engine the fault was, it was easy to find the dodgy
bit, and close examination actually showed the fault. Why they can't put in
a 'low vacuum' sensor and give it a fault code is beyond me, it would have
saved me quite a bit of time.

[Alan Deane]

> I had a Vectra in once that kept coming up with several codes (inc. waste
> gate and egr valve), I eventually traced the fault to a crack in a vacuum
> actuator for the inlet swirl flaps.
> The way I traced it was to find out the level of vacuum with everything
> bypassed (so right at the pump) then reconnect bits (the vacuum should stay
> the same except for momentary drops when things operate) After narrowing
> down which side of the engine the fault was, it was easy to find the dodgy
> bit, and close examination actually showed the fault. Why they can't put in
> a 'low vacuum' sensor and give it a fault code is beyond me, it would have
> saved me quite a bit of time.
>
>

I've found a localish stockist of a vacuum tester, so will get one of
those today which should help track down the issue, and prove if the
turbo actuator is working properly.

[Mrcheerful]

you do need a gauge, since it is impossible to judge by 'hiss', I had one
from the old days of carbs and distributors, first time I had used it in
years.

[Alan Deane]

It’s looking like my issue is defiantly the front engine mount.
I disconnected the vacuum line to it and blocked it, and have driven it
for a bit (including idling in traffic and booting it) and no further
issues, or codes logged.
Only side effect is more vibration transmitted to the car when idling.

Looks like an aftermarket one is about £85 delivered, waiting for Volvo
to call me back on a price for a real one. Tried GSF, they don’t stock it.

[Tim..]

"Alan Deane" <alz_...@nospam.ajdeane.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ee3af$501b047a$52130f1c$41...@usenext.xennanews.com...

Definately eliminate the front engine mount boost leak or whatever, the
plastic hose often breaks or rubs, giving a leak. I dont believe it is
disabled over 1500rpm, the whole idea of it is that turbo boost is fed to
the mount which stiffens up against the torque reaction of the engine under
power.

This still leaves your misfire etc... If the throttle body is VERY gunked up
with carbon, you could well be finding yourself removing the intake manifold
itself to clean out, as I have seen the actual ports 1/2 choked by carbon on
some engines...

Tim.

[Alan Deane]

On 03/08/2012 14:18, Alan Deane wrote:
> On 03/08/2012 11:42, Mrcheerful wrote:
>> Alan Deane wrote:
>>>> I had a Vectra in once that kept coming up with several codes (inc.
>>>> waste gate and egr valve), I eventually traced the fault to a crack
>>>> in a vacuum actuator for the inlet swirl flaps.
>>>> The way I traced it was to find out the level of vacuum with
>>>> everything bypassed (so right at the pump) then reconnect bits (the
>>>> vacuum should stay the same except for momentary drops when things
>>>> operate) After narrowing down which side of the engine the fault
>>>> was, it was easy to find the dodgy bit, and close examination
>>>> actually showed the fault. Why they can't put in a 'low vacuum'
>>>> sensor and give it a fault code is beyond me, it would have saved me
>>>> quite a bit of time.
>>>
>>> I've found a localish stockist of a vacuum tester, so will get one of
>>> those today which should help track down the issue, and prove if the
>>> turbo actuator is working properly.
>>
>> you do need a gauge, since it is impossible to judge by 'hiss', I had one
>> from the old days of carbs and distributors, first time I had used it in
>> years.
>>
>>

> It�s looking like my issue is defiantly the front engine mount.

> I disconnected the vacuum line to it and blocked it, and have driven it
> for a bit (including idling in traffic and booting it) and no further
> issues, or codes logged.
> Only side effect is more vibration transmitted to the car when idling.
>

> Looks like an aftermarket one is about �85 delivered, waiting for Volvo
> to call me back on a price for a real one. Tried GSF, they don�t stock it.
>

Follow-up:
Engine mount vacuum line plugged and no further faults logged during the
next 200 miles.
Ordered replacement mount from Volvo (�103). Fitted yesterday and driven
a further 50 miles today, no faults since, and back to a smooth idle.
800 mile drive coming up at the weekend (all towing) so that will give
it a decent test!

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 22:52:15 +0100, Alan Deane
<alz_...@nospam.ajdeane.co.uk> wrote:

>> It�s looking like my issue is defiantly the front engine mount.

Bastard sitting there waving its fist at you?

[Alan Deane]

On 08/08/2012 01:04, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 22:52:15 +0100, Alan Deane
> <alz_...@nospam.ajdeane.co.uk> wrote:
>

>>> It�s looking like my issue is defiantly the front engine mount.

>
> Bastard sitting there waving its fist at you?
>

Yep!