Halfords DIY air con recharge kit
George Bray
ackits.com that Halfords has now started selling air con R134a
recharge kits in the UK. For an extortionate £29.95 you get a small
quantity of R134a and a charge hose, to enable a quick top-up.
Bad news indeed! The product includes leak-sealant which is quite
likely to block your system and lead to the need for ultra-expensive
repairs later on. Moreover, there's no mention of the almost essential
need to pull a vacuum or take other wise steps. So irresponsible.
The only good aspect may be that Halfords will presumably be lobbying
against the UK Government's expected attempt, soon to restrict
refigerant handling to 'approved' individuals.
Regards
George
Andy Hewitt
Yes I agree here, Halfords are being totally daft with this one. It's
not like its an emergency to top up your air/con, especially at this
time of year. They are obviously not advising customers that not only
should you pull a vacuum on the system, but also replenish the PAG oil
as well, and also use the correct type. It is also pretty dangerous
stuff too should you get the wrong weight of gas in the system.
I also noticed that they are pushing the Rip Speed products heavily too,
the one in Durham has easily 25% of its shop floor dedicated to it. For
a nationwide company such as Halfords, I find this rather irresponsible
to be encouraging modification, and implying that they think it OK to go
faster.
--
Andy Hewitt ** FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Concerto 16v: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://www.thehewitts.plus.com - now online
Paul Giverin
<hairy...@spamcop.net> writes
>
>I also noticed that they are pushing the Rip Speed products heavily too,
>the one in Durham has easily 25% of its shop floor dedicated to it. For
>a nationwide company such as Halfords, I find this rather irresponsible
>to be encouraging modification, and implying that they think it OK to go
>faster.
>
--
Paul Giverin
British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk
Mark Hewitt
"Andy Hewitt" <hairy...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:1gned74.19pvn5o7r7bkpN%hairy...@spamcop.net...
>
> I also noticed that they are pushing the Rip Speed products heavily too,
> the one in Durham has easily 25% of its shop floor dedicated to it. For
> a nationwide company such as Halfords, I find this rather irresponsible
> to be encouraging modification, and implying that they think it OK to go
> faster.
Yes but it's a big part of the market, especially considering all the
charvers with Novas and Corsas around here.
Is it the one in Pity Me?
Andy Hewitt
> In message <1gned74.19pvn5o7r7bkpN%hairy...@spamcop.net>, Andy Hewitt
> <hairy...@spamcop.net> writes
> >
> >I also noticed that they are pushing the Rip Speed products heavily too,
> >the one in Durham has easily 25% of its shop floor dedicated to it. For
> >a nationwide company such as Halfords, I find this rather irresponsible
> >to be encouraging modification, and implying that they think it OK to go
> >faster.
> >
> A bit like them selling radar detectors as safety devices then :)
Just the same. Don't get me wrong, I have no objection to people wanting
to upgrade and tune their cars, but they know they are building in
unreliability, increased costs and greater possibilities to break the
law.
What really worries me is the advise that Halfords are going to give, or
that someone is going to get this stuff fitted in their workshops.
Andy Hewitt
Indeed, so we know where their morals lie don't we.
> Is it the one in Pity Me?
Yup, just recently been refitted.
Mark Hewitt
>
>> Is it the one in Pity Me?
>
> Yup, just recently been refitted.
Planning to go to Arniston Centre tonight so I'll have a look in to see what
you mean ;-)
Andy Hewitt
All credit though, I've been looking for a little hand oil can for some
time, couldn't find one anywhere, finally found one in there a couple of
days ago.
Mark W
"George Bray" <GeorgeB...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f888ed61.0411...@posting.google.com...
I guess that air conditioning specialists will be rather worried about
this..... you aren't one, are you?
And why do you want to pull a vacuum on a system that only needs a top-up?
Pete M
George Bray <GeorgeB...@hotmail.com> decided to enlighten our sheltered
souls with a rant as follows
Oooh, lovely. Loads of "home mechanic" muppets discharging R134a into the
air.. Does it mention the £20k fine for doing that?
--
Pete M
Mercedes 260E
Ford Capri (ressurection starts soon)
COSOC #5
Scouse Git extraordinaire. Liverpool, Great Britain
Adrian
they were saying :
> It's not like its an emergency to top up your air/con, especially at this
> time of year.
While I'll agree about it not being an emergency, this is the time of year
- or soon will be - when aircon IS a safety aid AND at it's most useful.
It doesn't just make things cold. It makes things dry. Which means glass
you can see through.
Andy Hewitt
> On 17 Nov 2004 04:08:48 -0800, George Bray wrote:
>
> > I've recently learned from the excellent air conditioning forum at
> > ackits.com that Halfords has now started selling air con R134a
> > recharge kits in the UK. For an extortionate £29.95 you get a small
> > quantity of R134a and a charge hose, to enable a quick top-up.
> >
> > Bad news indeed! The product includes leak-sealant which is quite
> > likely to block your system and lead to the need for ultra-expensive
> > repairs later on. Moreover, there's no mention of the almost essential
> > need to pull a vacuum or take other wise steps. So irresponsible.
>
> Why would you need to apply vacuum when all you are doing is topping up the
> high pressure side of the system though?
For a start, it's the best way to see if you have a leak. You bung a
vacuum into the system, and hold the vacuum for a given time. If the
vacuum holds, then the system is sealed.
However, the fact that the system needs topping up might suggest there
is a leak, and simply topping up isn't going to help for long. Indeed,
you will have just bunged £30 into the atmosphere.
So you pop along to a dealer, or air/con specialist who then charge you
between £60 and £90 to test it and top it up again, and find the leak
for you.
In any case, with these kits how do you know how much gas you've put in,
and how do you know how much it needs?
There is such a variation on quanitities of gas used in the systems, you
could easily damage a system.
Andy Hewitt
> Andy Hewitt (hairy...@spamcop.net) gurgled happily, sounding much like
> they were saying :
>
> > It's not like its an emergency to top up your air/con, especially at this
> > time of year.
>
> While I'll agree about it not being an emergency, this is the time of year
> - or soon will be - when aircon IS a safety aid AND at it's most useful.
It's certainly useful, but not essential. Sometimes it can just mean you
get away quicker on a cold morning. It's a comfort aid in this country,
it isn't a safety feature.
> It doesn't just make things cold. It makes things dry. Which means glass
> you can see through.
Er yes, I can suck eggs too. Not having air/con doesn't mean the glass
won't clear, it just takes longer.
Colin Stamp
Actually, no. What you need for demisting is air that has a low
relative humidity - actual water content doesn't really matter. The
easiest way to get a low RH is to take cold air and then heat it up.
In warm weather, you need aircon to give you that cold starting air,
but if the outside air is cold to start with, aircon becomes
pointless. Once the outside temp gets near zero, the aircon won't run
anyway, to avoid icing up the condenser.
Colin.
Dave Plowman (News)
George Bray <GeorgeB...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I've recently learned from the excellent air conditioning forum at
> ackits.com that Halfords has now started selling air con R134a
> recharge kits in the UK. For an extortionate £29.95 you get a small
> quantity of R134a and a charge hose, to enable a quick top-up.
> Bad news indeed! The product includes leak-sealant which is quite
> likely to block your system and lead to the need for ultra-expensive
> repairs later on. Moreover, there's no mention of the almost essential
> need to pull a vacuum or take other wise steps. So irresponsible.
IIRC, DIY top up kits have been available in the US for ages. So what's
different about them?
--
*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Dave Plowman (News)
Andy Hewitt <hairy...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> So you pop along to a dealer, or air/con specialist who then charge you
> between £60 and £90 to test it and top it up again, and find the leak
> for you.
On the two occasions I've had this done on two different cars, it (I
assume) leaked out and reverted to as before within a couple of months. So
I'm not convinced the standard testing methods are much good.
--
*(on a baby-size shirt) "Party -- my crib -- two a.m
Guy King
from "Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> contains these words:
> IIRC, DIY top up kits have been available in the US for ages. So what's
> different about them?
The US has no concern for the environment? (certain amount of tongue in
cheek there).
--
Skipweasel.
In the beginning was the word.
And the word was Aardvark.
George Bray
> I guess that air conditioning specialists will be rather worried about
> this..... you aren't one, are you?
> And why do you want to pull a vacuum on a system that only needs a top-up?
I see a potential short term threat to air conditioning specialists,
of whom I am not one, not professionally at least. But I read up about
these systems because I don't trust UK specialists: poor diagnosis,
rampant over-pricing, telling people they need a new evaporator - most
unlikely but a great fee earner.
Back to the recharge kits...DIY top-up with the Halfords kit for
£29.95 or take it to an air conditioning specialist for £80 +VAT or
thereabouts. But for that, the specialist should do a proper
evacuation, do a leak check, weigh the charge, etc, etc. I don't
totally reject these top up kits or the top up approach, because I've
seen it work a treat at roadside garages in the Middle East, where
they connect gauges, confirm the pressure is a bit low, and top it up,
all for about ten quid. If you've lost, say, 20% of the charge,
wouldn't the outward pressure of the remaining R134a prevent air and
much moisture getting into the system? I simply don't know. It suits
the trade to say you need total evacuation and recharge (with someone
else's dirty R134a in many cases).
The kits have been available for years in the USA.
The biggest problems will arise from the leak sealant element jamming
up the system, and people who've lost 80-100% of their charge,
thinking that the little bit of R134a in the Halfords kit will solve
their problems. Instead, it will likely go straight into the
atmosphere. Also, there's no mention on the pack of the need to purge
air from the charge hose, use a vacuum pump, pressure gauges or many
other wise steps.
Regards
George
Andy Hewitt
> In article <1gnf2pg.1you6xc1hwtk7xN%hairy...@spamcop.net>,
> Andy Hewitt <hairy...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> > So you pop along to a dealer, or air/con specialist who then charge you
> > between £60 and £90 to test it and top it up again, and find the leak
> > for you.
>
> On the two occasions I've had this done on two different cars, it (I
> assume) leaked out and reverted to as before within a couple of months. So
> I'm not convinced the standard testing methods are much good.
Actually the only way to do it is to regas it and put a luminous dye in.
When it leaks you can see the dye with UV light.
Andy Hewitt
<Snipped Text>
> > For a start, it's the best way to see if you have a leak. You bung a
> > vacuum into the system, and hold the vacuum for a given time. If the
> > vacuum holds, then the system is sealed.
>
> And if the high pressure side is well above atmopsheric pressure...? Also a
> vacuum will load a seal with pressure the other way round which can have an
> effect.
Yes, a vacuum test is only one of the tests you do. If the vacuum test
fails, you know you have a leak. If it passes, then you need to do a
test under pressure, usually you'd put a dye into the system.
Either way it makes sense to find out why the gas level has dropped.
> > However, the fact that the system needs topping up might suggest there
> > is a leak, and simply topping up isn't going to help for long. Indeed,
> > you will have just bunged £30 into the atmosphere.
>
> Or it could just be a slow leak. I had my Mondeo topped off after four
> years and it went another four years before going off, so I'd consider £30
> over that time to be well spent.
It can happen. However, it's generally recommended now that the system
should be evacuated and refilled avery 2-3 years.
> > So you pop along to a dealer, or air/con specialist who then charge you
> > between £60 and £90 to test it and top it up again, and find the leak
> > for you.
> >
> > In any case, with these kits how do you know how much gas you've put in,
> > and how do you know how much it needs?
>
> I beleive you fill a system to the correct pressure, not quantity unless
> you are filling it from empty.
Nope.
<Snipped Text>
Tom Burton
> The only good aspect may be that Halfords will presumably be lobbying
> against the UK Government's expected attempt, soon to restrict
> refigerant handling to 'approved' individuals.
What happens to the refrigerant once it is vacuumed out by the specialists?
Just wondering? - Presumably it is recycled?
Tom
Mark W
I think Halfords will sooner or later stop stocking these kits. Either they
will get a stream of motorists claiming that the product ruined their car's
aircon system, or they simply won't sell enough to justify the shelf space,
because most consumers are scared of air conditioning and regard it as a
specialist job.
I haven't seen the kit but I'd guess it would have to say fairly prominently
No Guarantees!
George Spigot
> "Mark W" <s@o> wrote in message
news:<419b9...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>...
>
> > I guess that air conditioning specialists will be rather worried about
> > this..... you aren't one, are you?
> > And why do you want to pull a vacuum on a system that only needs a
top-up?
>
> I see a potential short term threat to air conditioning specialists,
> of whom I am not one, not professionally at least. But I read up about
> these systems because I don't trust UK specialists: poor diagnosis,
> rampant over-pricing, telling people they need a new evaporator - most
> unlikely but a great fee earner.
>
> Back to the recharge kits...DIY top-up with the Halfords kit for
> £29.95 or take it to an air conditioning specialist for £80 +VAT or
> thereabouts. But for that, the specialist should do a proper
> evacuation, do a leak check, weigh the charge, etc, etc. I don't
> totally reject these top up kits or the top up approach, because I've
> seen it work a treat at roadside garages in the Middle East, where
> they connect gauges, confirm the pressure is a bit low, and top it up,
> all for about ten quid.
pressure is dependant on temperature ,
too much gas is as bad as too little gas
George Spigot
"Tom Burton" <t...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:3044s8F...@uni-berlin.de...
yes, filtered, oil extracted and weighed.
Vacuuming also removes water from the system
RichardK-PB
> Er yes, I can suck eggs too. Not having air/con doesn't mean the glass
> won't clear, it just takes longer.
ISTR the A/C on my Volvo 480, and other cars perhaps, shut the A/C
system off below a certain ambient temperature.
Richard
--
RichardK - 1980s in a can. http://www.dmc12.demon.co.uk/music/
Retro computing - http://www.dmc12.demon.co.uk/retrotech/
Cars - 2004 Beetle Cabrio, 1990 Supra, 1990 Sera, 1990 Volvo 740
MidiGuitar, Enterprise 128, NeXT, AU/X. Apple 77-04. See links ;)
Andy Hewitt
> Andy Hewitt wrote:
>
> > Er yes, I can suck eggs too. Not having air/con doesn't mean the glass
> > won't clear, it just takes longer.
>
> ISTR the A/C on my Volvo 480, and other cars perhaps, shut the A/C
> system off below a certain ambient temperature.
That could certainly be the case.
Anything under 7c would be expected as car A/C only normally works to
that anyway.
George Bray
My understanding, but I haven't seen it done, is that your R134a will
be sucked into a recovery cylinder which may have some other R134a
still in it. Depending on the quality of the kit, there may be filters
to remove muck and any water. You also have to hope that the previous
chap's refrigerant wasn't contaminated with propane, R12, R22 or any
of the so-called 'drop in' blends. Again, the cautious garage will
test everyone's refrigerant to make sure it's pure R134a. But what
happens if it's not? I guess a proportion of your new fill could be
contaminated when it's put back into your vehicle, perhaps with a
squirt of brand new R134a to top it up.
Regards
George
DocDelete
> RichardK-PB <at...@NOSPAMbtconnect.com> wrote:
>
> > Andy Hewitt wrote:
> >
> > > Er yes, I can suck eggs too. Not having air/con doesn't mean the glass
> > > won't clear, it just takes longer.
> >
> > ISTR the A/C on my Volvo 480, and other cars perhaps, shut the A/C
> > system off below a certain ambient temperature.
>
> That could certainly be the case.
>
> Anything under 7c would be expected as car A/C only normally works to
> that anyway.
My 323f switches it on automatically as any demist configuration is
selected. A bit annoying since I believe I can remember to do this for
myself if in a hurry to demist, and really don't want the aircon later on in
the drive if I revert back to demist for some reason - I'd much prefer the
extra 2-3mpg thanks v. much.
--
Ken Davidson
DocDelete
Andy Hewitt
<Snipped Text>
> > Anything under 7c would be expected as car A/C only normally works to
> > that anyway.
>
>
> My 323f switches it on automatically as any demist configuration is
> selected. A bit annoying since I believe I can remember to do this for
> myself if in a hurry to demist, and really don't want the aircon later on in
> the drive if I revert back to demist for some reason - I'd much prefer the
> extra 2-3mpg thanks v. much.
Yes, a lot of cars do that now, I find it somewhat annoying too.
Chris
> >>> ackits.com that Halfords has now started selling air con R134a
> >>> recharge kits in the UK. For an extortionate £29.95 you get a small
> >>> quantity of R134a and a charge hose, to enable a quick top-up.
£29.95!!!!!!, wow in the usa these kits (presumably the same) retail nearer
£5-£10!!!!
Guy King
from "Chris" <spam_ch...@ntlworld.com> contains these words:
> £29.95!!!!!!, wow in the usa these kits (presumably the same) retail nearer
> £5-£10!!!!
Yeah, but then we're used to having prices transferred from the states
by changing the dollar sign to a pound sign but leaving the digits
alone.
Gouging, it's called.
George Bray
That's rip off Britain for us. I hate Halfords and other over-priced,
fat-cat managed high street stores, and only shop there when I'm
desperate.
Chris
nearer
> > Ł5-Ł10!!!!
>
> Yeah, but then we're used to having prices transferred from the states
> by changing the dollar sign to a pound sign but leaving the digits
> alone.
>
> Gouging, it's called.
>
> --
> Skipweasel.
> In the beginning was the word.
> And the word was Aardvark.
Yeah but iirc they were $10-$15 not $30!!!!
Paul Giverin
Bray <GeorgeB...@hotmail.com> writes
>
>That's rip off Britain for us. I hate Halfords and other over-priced,
>fat-cat managed high street stores, and only shop there when I'm
>desperate.
I walked into my local Halfords last week and was pleased to see that
the Kenwood head unit I had bought for my son for £85 at an online
retailer was selling for £150. When I saw a couple enquiring about the
same unit, I waited until the staff member had gone and I gave the
couple the web address :)
--
Paul Giverin
British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk
Paul Giverin
<venus...@chris-street.demon.co.uk> writes
>On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:55:22 +0000, Andy Hewitt wrote:
>
>>
>> It can happen. However, it's generally recommended now that the system
>> should be evacuated and refilled avery 2-3 years.
>
You'd lose your money.