Please help Rover 25 intermittent starting problem

[John Woodhall]

Hi folks,

my other halfs rover 25 is having a problem starting. Its a 3 year old 1.4
104 bhp rover 25. Most times when she starts it, it takes at least 5 tries
to start it, sometimes at least 20. When you turn the key to the last
position nothing at all happens in the engine department, no click of the
solenoid on the starter, nothing. The dash lights however are going dim as
is the radio but not the headlights. Its as if the ignition switch is
working but just not getting through to the starter.

A friend with a rover 200 has the same problem, I am reluctant to pay for a
dealer to test it on the diagnostics, apart from the obvious checking all
connections etc. What else can I do?

Is this a known fault on the 25?

TIA

John

[SteveH]

John Woodhall <jwoo...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

Take a large hammer and hit the starter solenoid.

--
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300
VW Golf GL Cabrio - Alfa 75 TS - Alfa 155 TS Lusso - COSOC KOTL
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[John Woodhall]

"SteveH" <st...@italiancar.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1ge9lxj.1dwlse16w1blqN%st...@italiancar.co.uk...

> John Woodhall <jwoo...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > my other halfs rover 25 is having a problem starting. Its a 3 year old
1.4
> > 104 bhp rover 25. Most times when she starts it, it takes at least 5
tries
> > to start it, sometimes at least 20. When you turn the key to the last
> > position nothing at all happens in the engine department, no click of
the
> > solenoid on the starter, nothing. The dash lights however are going dim
as
> > is the radio but not the headlights. Its as if the ignition switch is
> > working but just not getting through to the starter.
> >
> > A friend with a rover 200 has the same problem, I am reluctant to pay
for a
> > dealer to test it on the diagnostics, apart from the obvious checking
all
> > connections etc. What else can I do?
>
> Take a large hammer and hit the starter solenoid.
>

Tried that, to no avail.:-(

[Mr Greenstone]

"John Woodhall" <jwoo...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:xvasc.3569$V67....@nurse.blueyonder.net...

John,

Don't know if it's a common fault, but I bought my P-reg Rover 214Si a
couple of years ago and noticed in the service history that the starter
motor had been replaced once. During the first year of my ownership the car
fired up immediately - no spluttering or anything like that. Last year the
car suddenly developed the sort of problem you describe but not as extreme.
On some occasions I killed the battery in the attempt to start the engine.
It started very reluctantly if it started at all. As the car needed a couple
of other minor things putting right, I left it in the hands of the
conscientious local mechanic. He said he couldn't find anything wrong when
he disassembled the starter, but he cleaned up all the parts before
reassembling it - and that seems to have done the trick. He reckons all the
muck may have been taking away the battery juice.

Worth a shot?

Paul

[John Woodhall]

"Mr Greenstone" <pe...@removethisbit.totalise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:40b3...@news.greennet.net...

Thanks Paul, will give that a try then.

[mrdea...@gmail.com]

Hi I had the same problem with mine after turning the key to position no.3 wait for 10-15 sec then it fires up, just make sure the relays and all pushed in properly as driving over speed bumps etc.can dislodge them, especially no.2 relay as this is your starter relay then try turning it over.It starts every time now for me.Good luck 🍀.

[S G]

replying to John Woodhall, S G wrote:
OKay my Rover 25 (pretty old 2006) started doing this last October. It did it
3 times. Lights worked great, radio fine, just nothing when ignition was
turned on, not even a sound. I called the mechanic out, he turned the key, it
fired up -no problem. We had to laugh, and he wouldn't charge me a call out
fee! (Go to Heaven Mr Mechanic!) Since then, it worked fine. Right, it did it
again 2 weeks ago. I kept turning the key, and great -it fired. But I wasn't
confident about driving it anywhere, parking, then wanting to start it again
to come home! I went only within walking distance of home (8 miles) just in
case. Once, I had trouble starting it when I was parked at the village store
(3 miles) but after I kept turning the key 3-4 times, it was fine. The car
runs great by the way. The starter issue doen't affect how it runs when going.
Now 3 days ago it happened again. I gave up on it and was staring to walk to
the mechanic's shop, when I thought I'd give it another shot. No such luck,
though radio, and lights were perfect. Then I tried again and it fired just
fine. I drove it around the block to just give the battery a bit of a boost as
it had stood idle for days.
Now I feel I can't trust it. If I drive say -20 miles, I'm unsure if I'll be
able to get home. I'm hard headed, so would just walk back but wouldn't much
like it.
The mechanic didn't find any fault with it but think I shall have to go to him
anyway even though it does work fine, once it starts!

--
for full context, visit http://www.motorsforum.com/maintenance-uk/punto-annoyance-47689-.htm

[Peter Hill]

Started doing WHAT? Because you have deleted all the original post no
one has any clue what you are going on about.

The link in your post goes to some idiot problem with an 11 month old
Fiat Punto from 2005. As the average age of cars when scrapped in the UK
is 13.9 years it's due to be crushed soon. As this is average and I have
2 cars from 1993 that are both going to go to 2025, some have to go
before they are 13.9 years old. 12 years old is about right for a Rover 25.

Post you appear to have replied to.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/uk.rec.cars.maintenance/Woodhall/uk.rec.cars.maintenance/1VN1Kbwmw5U/YXQuKpD1CbMJ

On 21/07/2004 John Woodhall said
> I am a member of the emergency services and sorry but these stickers
> don`t say look for a baby. They say I am a fuckwit. If anyone of
> you is wondering why sometimes we miss people, try dealing with a
> seriously injured person in the pissing down rain, dark and cold
> with lots of blue flashing strobes blinding you, baby sticker or not,
> if a passenger has been flung 20 metres over a hedge, we ain`t gonna
> see ya. Sorry. :-(

What does the presence of "baby on board" sign and emergency services
searching for it, have to do with your problem?

Does it crank but not start? What lights are showing on the dash? The
original post was about a Rover 111gsi and advice for 214/216 with Honda
engine. So it's unlikely you have any parts in common.

Does it bump start? Always park facing down the slope.

If it doesn't crank. It could be the switch. Get a fairly high wattage
(21w) test lamp between the starter solenoid wire and earth and check
you can light it repeatedly. If you don't hear a clunk of the solenoid
making contact and throwing the pinion into mesh then it's also possible
the starter motor brushes are worn. But that shouldn't happen until
about 150-200k miles.

[Scott M]

S G wrote:
> replying to John Woodhall, S G wrote:
> OKay my Rover 25 (pretty old 2006) started doing this last October. It
> did it
> 3 times. Lights worked great, radio fine, just nothing when ignition was
> turned on, not even a sound. I called the mechanic out, he turned the
> key, it
> fired up -no problem.

Find a better mechanic. If the starter clunks but doesn't spin it's
likely a sticky starter motor. If it doesn't clunk then either a dodgy
ignition switch or some sort of immobiliser problem (tho IIRC they have
an immobiliser light on the dash which will eliminate that.)

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

[vany...@gmail.com]

Since this is a 2004 thread that has been resurrected, I think we can safely assume that this car is either fixed or scrapped! (My money's on scrapped).
Ian.

[efa...@gmail.com]

I’m not catholic but I do love a good Easter joke, so in the spirit of resurrection, I’m bring this back. Mostly because I’ve had some progress ruling out what this is, because that guy above was right not to trust what I’ve experienced to be a rapidly deteriorating problem.

Within 2-3 days of the silent starte peovken showing up I completely lost the ability to turn the car on. However, because I have a job that requires a lot of driving, death was not an option!

The roadside mechanic who got it going again was more of a doctor Frankenstein than a Lazarus, (see what I did there?! 😂), in that i still have the problem but he taught me how to effectively hot wire it with a (well insulated!) screwdriver. I’ve actually settled on a pair of needle nose pliers, which fit nicely between the 2 unsheathed cables that connect the starter to the engine..? All I know is this cable seems to run through all sorts of areas around the engine, and looked like a nightmare to replace.

That, or he was overplaying the complexity of the fix because it was roadside assistance and I’d already had him clean off the cable connections - which did nothing.

So today I had the pleasure of getting under the bonnet to stock a pair of nn pliers between the live cable to the right, and the dead starter cable on the left, to carry the current from red to dead, which works like a redneck charm.

Now if only I knew how much it’ll cost to repair it so I can do a banger cost/benefit assessment 🤣

[RJH]

On 18/04/2019 04:08, efa...@gmail.com wrote:

snip

IIUC started the car by attaching . . .]

pliers between the live cable to the right, and the dead starter cable
on the left, to carry the current from red to dead, which works

snip

Sounds like the starter solenoid, or whatever it's connected to. At
worst, a new starter motor? At best, connections at the motor/solenoid
need a clean.

--
Cheers, Rob

[Peter Hill]

On 18/04/2019 04:08, efa...@gmail.com wrote:

> I’m not catholic but I do love a good Easter joke, so in the spirit of resurrection, I’m bring this back. Mostly because I’ve had some progress ruling out what this is, because that guy above was right not to trust what I’ve experienced to be a rapidly deteriorating problem.
>
> Within 2-3 days of the silent starte peovken showing up I completely lost the ability to turn the car on. However, because I have a job that requires a lot of driving, death was not an option!
>

<snip>

>
> So today I had the pleasure of getting under the bonnet to stock a pair of nn pliers between the live cable to the right, and the dead starter cable on the left, to carry the current from red to dead, which works like a redneck charm.
>
> Now if only I knew how much it’ll cost to repair it so I can do a banger cost/benefit assessment 🤣
>

If you can't "turn the car on", jumping the solenoid terminals wouldn't
start it as the ignition would be dead.

When turn the car on do the dash lights come on?

Starter cable isn't dead, you jumped the terminals and starter runs.

Feed to solenoid from ignition switch or as RJH says solenoid.

You test this by getting a bit of cable, jam one end in the +ve battery
terminal and the other in the back of the 1/4" spade connector that is
on the solenoid. Careful with this as if you touch anything earthed it
will be like an arc welder. If the starter runs then you need an auto
electrician to find the fault between ignition switch and solenoid. If
the starter doesn't turn then it the solenoid and a new starter is
usually easier than replacing the solenoid.

If the fault is in ignition switch circuit it could be the immobilizer
and most often the relay for this. This is always the number 1 isolated
circuit in an alarm system. Sometimes there is a 2nd, which would be
fuel pump or ignition but they are working as you can start the car.

[Roger Mills]

On 18/04/2019 04:08, efa...@gmail.com wrote:

I had a Rover 600 with a similar problem which the garage fixed (it was
a company car) by replacing the ignition switch.

Prior to the fix I could start it by hot wiring between the battery and
starter solenoid - which I guess is what you're doing. [having turned
the ignition on first, of course]

If that works, the starter motor and solenoid are ok, and the problem is
in the ignition switch or maybe in a relay in the starter circuit.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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