Is Hammerite all it's cracked up to be?
Leslie B Rose
Like so many people I have been using Hammerite since it first appeared
on the market, and this is long enough to assess its true performance.
15 years ago I rebuilt the front end of my 1959 Sprite, using the
customary black Hammerite on all the rusted bits and pieces (heater
casing, mudguard brackets, suspension bits etc.). Following
instructions, all the bits were descaled, but not otherwise treated or
primed. I am now doing the rebuild again (properly this time), and have
had to strip all the paint, and a much worse layer of rust underneath.
Two years after the previous front end rebuild, the rear was done,
including an extremely rusty axle casing. By then I had some suspicions,
and I primed the axle and other bits with zinc paint before spraying
with Hammerite. The result is that the rear suspension remains almost
perfect.
I am now descaling, and spending many hours with Jenolite and wire brush
to remove as much rust as possible, before zinc priming. I'm still using
Hammerite because I haven't found anything better. I'm not completely
convinced about its adhesion to zinc primer, but at least if it chips
off (and it does) there's something underneath. Yes, I know blasting is
the way to get rid of all the rust and muck, but it's not very practical
on small parts, and in any case I can't justify the cost of a pukka
blasting system - unless anyone knows of a really good value one. Hiring
is not suitable as the car is being done bit by bit.
I am reminded of my laboratory days, when we used to salvage the
phosphorus pentoxide sludge from desiccators. This was a demon rust
remover, many time better than Jenolite, but presumably so concentrated
that no-one will sell anything so potent. Pity.
--
Leslie B Rose
Gavin Walker
In article <5at7ss$2...@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>,
I Johnston <ia...@tattoo.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>I have found Finnegan's No 1 and excellent primer and anti rust
>treatmenat. I normally use two coats of it, followed by three of
>Hammerite.
I use Finnegan's No 1 a bit as well, but don't rate it's adhesion
much. It flaked the jacking points of my car far too easily for my
liking.
Gavin
Andrew Holder
In article <y2OgzFAc...@lesrose.demon.co.uk>, Leslie B Rose
<les...@lesrose.demon.co.uk> writes
>Like so many people I have been using Hammerite since it first appeared
>on the market, and this is long enough to assess its true performance.
Les, fancy meeting you here !
I've almost got the entire collection of half used tins of every
possible colour of Hammerite in the shed (that reminds me, you might
want to take a look at the uk.rec.sheds newsgroup - interesting if a
little bizzarre sometimes)
However, I was horrified to find that my Rostyle wheels which I painted
in the summer with black Hammerite and silver Hammerite have started
rusting already. (No primer, just straight onto the cleaned,sanded
metal)
I have wondered whether zinc primer is better than red lead. Have you
any experience with lead primers ?
Bye for now.
Andrew.
--
Andrew Holder
Ben Mack
In article <y2OgzFAc...@lesrose.demon.co.uk>, Leslie B Rose
<les...@lesrose.demon.co.uk> writes
>Like so many people I have been using Hammerite since it first appeared
>on the market, and this is long enough to assess its true performance.
I've also found Hammerite pretty useless. As you said, it chips easily
and doesn't bond well, allowing rust to develop under it. Having said
that, it's still the best one-coat paint I've come across for when
you're in a hurry.
I'd stick to Jenolite followed by zinc primer and any old top coat
(something cheaper than Hammerite!)
What I do find works is the Waxoyl mixed with underseal stuff that
Finnigans do. I tend to slap it on anything you can't see... ;)
--
Ben [plagiarised sig]
"Never hit a man with glasses. Hit him with a baseball bat."
Gavin Walker
I Johnston <ia...@tattoo.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>I have found Finnegan's No 1 and excellent primer and anti rust
>treatmenat. I normally use two coats of it, followed by three of
>Hammerite.
I use Finnegan's No 1 a bit as well, but don't rate it's adhesion
much. It flaked off the jacking points of my car far too easily for my
liking.
Gavin
I Johnston
I have found Finnegan's No 1 and excellent primer and anti rust
treatmenat. I normally use two coats of it, followed by three of
Hammerite.
Ian
Graham Parker
In article <5at920$5...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>,
g...@eng.cam.ac.uk (Gavin Walker) wrote:
>much. It flaked off the jacking points of my car far too easily for my
>liking.
>
>Gavin
>
best results from using a) "Galvafroid" which is a cold galvanizing process
(If you file it down after three days you can see it really is galvanzing) and
b) twin pack etching primer. The later though needs good spray gear plus good
breathing app. but the former is applied by brush.
GRaham
Graham Parker
Senior Systems Engineer
Augusta Technology Limited
Aberystwyth
Dyfed.
Tel: 01970 626001, E-mail: g...@aber.ac.uk, Web:www.augusta.co.uk/~grp
Andy Dingley
The moving finger of Leslie B Rose <les...@lesrose.demon.co.uk> having
written:
>I'm still using Hammerite because I haven't found anything better.
Smoothrite is much better. You don't get the pinhole problems that you
do with non-sprayed Hammerite.
--
Smersh Spamionem
Chris Wilson
On Tue, 07 Jan 97 16:47:49 GMT g...@augusta.co.uk (Graham Parker) apparently
said in uk.rec.cars.classic:
> If you really do remove the rust (which you should be) on steel I have had my
> best results from using a) "Galvafroid" which is a cold galvanizing process
> (If you file it down after three days you can see it really is galvanzing) >
and
> b) twin pack etching primer. The later though needs good spray gear plus good
> breathing app. but the former is applied by brush.
>
Galvafroid is *superb*,really tremendous stuff.I painted some angle iron fence
posts with it 12 years ago,and they are as new still.Expensive,but a truly
great product.Be aware that cellulose does react terribly on top of it,so it's
automotive uses have to be carefully considered.
Just what occurs with 2 Pack on top of it,I'm not sure...
--
Chris Wilson Wed, 08 Jan 1997 20:45 GMT
Gatesgarth Racing Developments
Gatley,Cheshire,U.K.
Race Car Preparation and Development
mailto:ch...@maximum-bhp.u-net.com
Leslie B Rose
In article <b9lZgDAm...@resmon.demon.co.uk>, Andrew Holder
<And...@resmon.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <y2OgzFAc...@lesrose.demon.co.uk>, Leslie B Rose
><les...@lesrose.demon.co.uk> writes
>>Like so many people I have been using Hammerite since it first appeared
>>on the market, and this is long enough to assess its true performance.
>
>
>
>any experience with lead primers ?
>
>Bye for now.
>
>Andrew.
>
>
I have not used red lead much. The Sprite doors I primed a couple of
years ago, and stored in the loft, are reasonably OK. I mainly use zinc
because I'm not convinced that anything else is dramatically better, and
it's quite cheap bought in 1 litre tins. Finnegan's No 1 has been used
where it was difficult to remove all the rust (inaccessible corners of
cockpit etc), but interestingly rust did break through in places. I have
sprayed zinc on top after sanding down, and so far no further rusting.
I do not believe all these claims about painting over rust with primers.
You have to remove all the scale. Also, thick glutinous coats are no
better than thin smooth ones. Thick coats seem to chip more easily. My
back axle was sprayed with a thin coat of zinc and Hammerite 14 years
ago and is still OK.
--
Leslie B Rose
mike
>I have found Finnegan's No 1 and excellent primer and anti rust
>treatmenat. I normally use two coats of it, followed by three of
>Hammerite.
>
last year i took a photo of MY tin of Finnegan No1. It was less than 8
months old, the lid always replaced and in a garage where you can leave
mild steel sheet laying around and it doesn't rust....but the inside of
the No1 paint tin did !!!
I have NO confidence in the stuff.....if your interested (and very sad,
like me) i'll e-mail a scan of the tin to you. (40K ish)
--
mike
cenemc
Leslie B Rose wrote:
>
> In article <32D3D1...@sos.bangor.ac.uk>, David Roberts
> <oss...@sos.bangor.ac.uk> writes
>
> >Have you noticed it's now called "Smooth Hammerite"?
> >It's easier to clean the brushes than the original
> >Hammerite too.
> >
> >David
>
> Yes, I actually meant the smooth one. Thanks everyone for the feedback -
> some interesting ideas here. I remember Galvafroid from the 1960s and
> didn't know it was still available. It's also interesting to see that
> the classic car magazines still endorse Hammerite in their rebuild
> sagas, yet lots of us are less than impressed.
> --
> Leslie B Rose
A friend of mine has a bead blasting and painting company and his comments on
Hammerite are unprintable but deeply negitive.
Euan
Carl Eggleston
A good wire brush prep and a coat of Zinc Rich primer and then acoat of
MIO plus a finish enamel will keep the rust away for around ten years.
My company are coatings contractors. the above spec is used by BR on
bridge refurb projects.
Epoxy aluminium is also good as this paint has aleafing effect which
repels water. I have a few tins of this if you would like to try it.
£20.00 per can delivered.
Duncan Allison
Pete Morgan-Lucas wrote:
>
> Ben Mack wrote:
> > I've also found Hammerite pretty useless. As you said, it chips easily
> > and doesn't bond well, allowing rust to develop under it.
>
> when dry, and lacks the elasticity to resist impacts.
>
> > I'd stick to Jenolite followed by zinc primer and any old top coat
> > (something cheaper than Hammerite!)
>
> it whenever I’m painting any metal (except aluminium and its
> alloys which need a different treatment altogether).
>
> > What I do find works is the Waxoyl mixed with underseal stuff that
> > Finnigans do. I tend to slap it on anything you can't see... ;)
>
> can cope with stone-impacts, small amounts of flexing of panels and
> joints etc. without splitting or cracking.
>
> For "general" use on parts like suspension arms and panhard-rods
> etc, i find cheap gloss-paint, applied thickly (and forgetting the
> runs) is a very good rust-suppresser too... am I the only person
> with a car whose Watts-linkage is painted "New Canary Yellow"?
> [it was 'going cheep' at the local DIY store, so i bought a litre
> of the stuff for 99p...]
>
> //Pete M-L//
> "Do not disengage overdrive at road speeds above 120MPH"
For similar money to Hammerite you can get hold of military spec
aircraft paint. I believe this stuff is a polyester resin, but whatever
complex chemistry is used, it is designed to flex (presumably to keep
the paint job good after the fuselage has been riddled with bullets). I
got hold of it through Browns after a bit of talking to the storeman.
It's from a company in Cambridge that deals in aircraft materials, sorry
but memory has failed over the name.
Pete: My Watts linkage is flame red (arrows?), but the body awaits good
spraying weather before anyone gets to see good ship "Rainbow Scimitar".
=================================================================
|Duncan Allison - me0...@Cranfield.ac.uk |
| |
|Research Assistant / Hedges are there to prevent |
|Auto Studies Group \ you worrying about what |
|Cranfield University / happens when the road stops. |
|01234 754652 \ |
=================================================================
Leslie B Rose
Graham Parker
In article <VA.00000b7b.0015eb59@komondor>,
Chris Wilson <ch...@komondor.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On Tue, 07 Jan 97 16:47:49 GMT g...@augusta.co.uk (Graham Parker) apparently
>said in uk.rec.cars.classic:
>
>> If you really do remove the rust (which you should be) on steel I have had
my
>> best results from using a) "Galvafroid" which is a cold galvanizing process
>> (If you file it down after three days you can see it really is galvanzing)
>
>and
>> b) twin pack etching primer. The later though needs good spray gear plus
good
>> breathing app. but the former is applied by brush.
>>
>
>
>Galvafroid is *superb*,really tremendous stuff.I painted some angle iron
fence
>posts with it 12 years ago,and they are as new still.Expensive,but a truly
>great product.Be aware that cellulose does react terribly on top of it,so
it's
>automotive uses have to be carefully considered.
>
>Just what occurs with 2 Pack on top of it,I'm not sure...
Don't for ***** sake put twin pack etcher on top of the Galvafroid!!
The Twin pack etcher must go on top of bear metal (Steel) so it is an
alternative to Galvafroid - if you have the right gear for application.
I know cellulose can crack when applied on top of Galvafroid, I have always
used the ICI transport series (Synthetic - I think) of paints on top of the
galvafroid and had NO problems. The transport range is expensive, but quite
safe in terms of sparying and is very tough/durable.
Fred
Pete Morgan-Lucas
Graham Parker wrote:
>
> > I remember Galvafroid from the 1960s and
> >didn't know it was still available.
>
The best things usually are. I'd rather paint once and
do it properly, than do it on the cheap and have to repeat
the whole thing a few years down the line.
Galvafroid or Bondaprimer, followed by a good coat of
cheap gloss paint, or tractor enamel (available in a
good range of colours - John Deere Green isn't too harsh
on the eye) is my favourite therapy on all except aluminium.
Graham Parker
I Johnston
Graham Parker (g...@augusta.co.uk) wrote:
: > I remember Galvafroid from the 1960s and
: >didn't know it was still available.
: Sure is - but it is expensive
It's also not the nicest stuff in the world to use - it really needs
stringent safety precautions which most users blithely omit. It is also
difficult to overcoat and can cause problems if you ever want to weld
on or near the painted area.
Nice stuff, but I wouldn't use it myself.
Ian
Keith R Baker
Ben Mack wrote:
> I've also found Hammerite pretty useless. As you said, it chips easily
> and doesn't bond well, allowing rust to develop under it. Having said
> that, it's still the best one-coat paint I've come across for when
> you're in a hurry.
I aggree - however I have just used a chassis black which has similar,
"you dont need primer" properties, and the result is great. (and its cheep!
about 12 pound for 5 ltrs).
> I'd stick to Jenolite followed by zinc primer and any old top coat
> (something cheaper than Hammerite!)
I still prefer the old idea of getting off the old rust rather than converting
it to something else.
In another threadette someone said that blasting was no good for small
components - but I am finding it to be the best thing for complex
shapes - you still need to wire brush the bits first.
Then I use two pack etch primer (bonda.. something?) which incidently is
not the nasty two pack stuff so can be used at home without expensive
breathing stuff.
By the way my blaster cost 20 pounds (Sealley (thats not spelt right!)).
The grit was 25 pounds for 20kg.
> What I do find works is the Waxoyl mixed with underseal stuff that
> Finnigans do. I tend to slap it on anything you can't see... ;)
Yes, I do to; both Waxoyl and their underseal are great. Underseal can be
a bit thin though, so it needs a few coats.
> "Never hit a man with glasses. Hit him with a baseball bat."
Great sig!
Cheers
Keith
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
Dr Keith R Baker Southampton University
email: k...@ecs.soton.ac.uk
WWW: http://diana.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~krb/cv.html
Hairy One Kenobi
I've noticed that Hammerite & Smoothrite don't seem to last anything
like as long since they changed to a non-toxic formula to meet EC
regulations.
I now only use it for small patch-up work. My advice is to go along to
your local paint mixers and ask for single-coat chassis paint for
agricultural use. I have painted my Midtec chassis in preferance to
the epoxy/smoothrite combination on my Westfield; dropping tools on
the chassis while trying to install the lump produced only a single,
small chip. It is designed for tractors, JCBs, etc.
Hairy
Note: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
represent the opinions of the opinionated person expressing the
opinion. Or something.
Andrew Holder
JD TURNER <turn...@aston.ac.uk> wrote in article
> Shame that as a chemistry PG I have access to the chemicals, but not to
the
> money to get the car to work on.
>
> Hum.
>
>
Kon
How come you're lurking here then? You must have something in mind. Do you
have a favourite type of car. Mine would be an original Shelby Cobra but I
have slightly more chance of flying to the moon than ever owning one!
Cheers.
Andrew.
p.s. phosphoric stuff is also excellent for removing the blue stains around
nails in old oak timbers.
pps. I know your name is really Kon but my keyboard has a fault and I can't
get any Ks, they all come out as Ks, look ASDFGHKKL
bye.
Andrew Holder
In article <v$rBBDAKK...@guzzi.demon.co.uk>, mike
<mi...@guzzi.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>I have NO confidence in the stuff.....if your interested (and very sad,
>like me) i'll e-mail a scan of the tin to you. (40K ish)
>
Mike, this is absolutely amazing. I have never before heard of anyone
sending pictures of the inside of a paint tin lid ! This could be a
world first.
I think the people at uk.rec.sheds would be extremely interested in it.
I wouldn't recommend sending it unsolicited but I'm sure you would get a
lot of takers on a private basis.
Good luck
Andrew.
--
Andrew Holder
A. Greening
Yes please send this picture to uk.rec.sheds its just the sort of thing
we find interesting!
Andi
A Shedder