1979 Alfa Romeo Alfasud, 1500cc
Andy Dingley
wrote:
>I have the chance to get an 1979 1500cc Alfa Romeo Alfasud coupe at a
>great price (Ie. Very cheap).
No price is too much for a good one, no price too low for a bad one.
>It's full of rust and body filler
Run Away !!!!
It's an Alfasud - all the rust stories are true, only rather worse
than you've heard. Personally I have an '83 2 door Alfasud, not the
Sprint body. I bought it because nearly every panel was repalced a few
years ago, at considerable expense.
Engine - Beautiful, only look after it well. Change the timing belts
when they need it and keep the oil clean. Engine extraction is one of
the easiest I've ever done, especially with practice.
Gearbox - Unrepairable, but generally reliable. Synchro fades with age
and isn't repairable. Gear linkage fails and goes vague owing to wear
in a plethora of cheap rubber bushes in the linkage. Easy to fix, but
needs the engine removing.
Engine mounts are underspecified for the forces applied and don't last
well. Unusual clunks and bangs (sounding very serious), or a "loose
exhaust pipe" noise are often caused by the rear mount behind the
gearbox being worn (which isn't serious). Requires engine removal to
replace (maybe not on an old 4 speed)
Handling is the car's best feature. They're light and well balanced,
which makes them a dream to drive on winding country roads. They're
very nearly the most fun car to drive I've ever owned. Last year I had
both my own well-worn and tatty Alfasud, and a company supplied
brand-new Golf VR6. I _much_ preferred driving the Alfa !
Brakes are excellent, but definitely weird. They need to be in good
condition to work well, and usually aren't. The backs are standard
drums, but the fronts are inboard disks. These disks are mounted
directly on the transaxle, with the brake calipers mounted above. The
handbrake also works on the front, not the rear. Changine brake pads
is the only car I've seen where it's easier to swap disks than pads !
Re-adjusting the pads afterwards is not automatic (unusually for disk
brakes) and requires a 7mm socket and a small socket set handle (a
1/4" drive "palm ratchet" is ideal). It's easy enough to do with
practice, but it does need doing every few thousand miles (depending
on your enthusiasm for braking hard).
Driveshafts are dangerous. They're fastened by some undersized Allen
bolts at the inboard end and I know far too many stories of them
breaking in use. Be _very_ concerned about any front wheel vibration.
Fortunately it's easy to replace them; either by Alfa spares or some
high-tensile Allen head setscrews with lockwire through the heads.
It's vital to replace them, with a hex bit and torque wrench, not
just an Allen key - I AM NOT KIDDING !!
Tyres are fussy, as you need to stick with the original sizes if the
handling isn't to go very peculiar indeed. Stick with 165/70 13 for
most purposes, or go to 185 _maximum_ if you change all 4 together.
As the 165/70 13 is now unusual as a good quality tyre; then you have
the following choices: Goodyear NCT (deleted, but there is still a
little old stock around), Michelin MXV (expensive, but what I ended up
using), Yokohamas (good, but few stockists) or Eastern European
wheelbarrow wheels. Please don't economise on the tyres, as the car
isn't anything like so much fun on poor tyres.
Late model Cloverleaf variants use a peculiar metric wheel size for
which tyres are unavailable. Unless you can find the tyres (try
importing Michelin directly from France - seems to be the only way),
replace the wheels with an older Alfasud set. Alloys are generally
nice looking and well protected against corrosion.
Interior trim is nasty '70s hard black plastic, with poor quality
upholstery. The gauges and other electrics generally keep working well
enough.
The Haynes manual is good and accurate (for once !). It's also quite
an amusing read, as it was clearly written by the good Mr Haynes on a
day when he was feeling extremely timid -- the description of why you
shouldn't approach the gearbox internals is a gem !
Bodywork is just a total rot-box. Dear me, but they got it badly wrong
on this one 8-( Watch out for the nightmarish repairs around the
front struts.
Nasty jobs:
Removing the handbrake cable from the front calipers - replacing it is
even worse. Make sure you slack the lever adjustment off COMPLETELY.
Fixing rust, especially around the front suspension turrets, the
windscreen surround, behind the steering rack, or at the bottom of the
firewall, just above the gearbox (check for cracking here too)
Moving a stripped bodyshell with the engine removed - you lose the
front wheels, steering and the handbrake too.
Extracting a steering rack, unless the engine is already out.
Replacing front wheelbearings. The hubs come off easily, but only an
Alfa garage can get the bearings in and out.
Enjoy it anyway -- There's nothing like a good one.
--
Smert' Spamionem
Chris Wilson
din...@codesmiths.com says...
<snip>
> Handling is the car's best feature. They're light and well balanced,
> which makes them a dream to drive on winding country roads. They're
> very nearly the most fun car to drive I've ever owned. Last year I had
> both my own well-worn and tatty Alfasud, and a company supplied
> brand-new Golf VR6. I _much_ preferred driving the Alfa !
How very,very true.They were,and still are on of the best sorted FWD
chassis around.They were just *right* in every
respect.Light,responsive,minimal understeer,and enough lift off
oversteer to allow a sporting driver to drive on the throttle through
open bends.The ride was supple,and the damping perfect.Zero bump
steer,by seat of pants,and measurement.Stiff monocoque,(when new :-
)),with wonderful space usage.
Youngsters say how well their Astras and things handle,on big wheels
and tyres,and hard springs and shocks.They don't know what they are
missing.Such a crying shame they have nearly all rotted to oblivion.A
true classic,in their own way.
--
Best Regards,
Chris Wilson
http://www.f3.u-net.com
mailto:ch...@f3.u-net.com
Hanne Buhl & Peder Sterll
drums at rear, which the later Sprints had, as they inheritaged the 33
platform, it is bound to have the brakediscs placed (conventionally) at the
front wheels.
If the car has inboard frontdiscs (up to 1983-84 - as it used the Alfasud
platform) then it has discs at the rearwheel.
Otherwise I very much agree in Your comments about the car.
I run one myself, fitted with a 33 1.7 QV engine, and completely modified
for club-racing.
Best regards
Peder Sterll, AROC Denmark
Andy Dingley skrev i meddelelsen <366c3a89...@news.demon.co.uk>...
Chris Holbrook
Sud-based kit which had the same qualities? might have lasted better.
Chris
On Wed, 9 Dec 1998 22:00:50 -0000, ch...@f3.u-net.com (Chris Wilson)
wrote:
>In article <366c3a89...@news.demon.co.uk>,
>din...@codesmiths.com says...
>
><snip>
>> Handling is the car's best feature. They're light and well balanced,
>> which makes them a dream to drive on winding country roads. They're
>> very nearly the most fun car to drive I've ever owned. Last year I had
>> both my own well-worn and tatty Alfasud, and a company supplied
>> brand-new Golf VR6. I _much_ preferred driving the Alfa !
>
>How very,very true.They were,and still are on of the best sorted FWD
>chassis around.They were just *right* in every
>respect.Light,responsive,minimal understeer,and enough lift off
>oversteer to allow a sporting driver to drive on the throttle through
>open bends.The ride was supple,and the damping perfect.Zero bump
>steer,by seat of pants,and measurement.Stiff monocoque,(when new :-
>)),with wonderful space usage.
>
>Youngsters say how well their Astras and things handle,on big wheels
>and tyres,and hard springs and shocks.They don't know what they are
>missing.Such a crying shame they have nearly all rotted to oblivion.A
>true classic,in their own way.
>
>--
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Chris Wilson
> http://www.f3.u-net.com
> mailto:ch...@f3.u-net.com
Chris Holbrook
ch...@cfactory.co.uk
tel +44 (1) 633 244906
Jerry Parker
an 82) both had rear disc brakes.
Andy Dingley
<je...@alfa164.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>Andy Dingley is right about almost everything
Oh, that one's going to come back and haunt me.... 8-)
>but the two Suds I had (a 79 &
>an 82) both had rear disc brakes.
Yeah, whatever -- I guess you can infer from this that my own rear
brakes are so little trouble that I've forgotten what sort they were.
I still have nightmares about suspension turret rust though.
--
Do whales have krillfiles ?
Jerry Parker
Markk
Andy Dingley wrote in message <366c3a89...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>Gear linkage fails and goes vague owing to wear
>in a plethora of cheap rubber bushes in the linkage. Easy to fix, but
>needs the engine removing.
Much of what you say is right, but this is nonsense. All the bushes can be
changed with the engine in situ. There is one that requires you to LOWER the
engine a little. The bushes are nylon, cheap and one of them only lasts a
few thousand miles.
>Engine mounts are underspecified for the forces applied and don't last
>well. Unusual clunks and bangs (sounding very serious), or a "loose
>exhaust pipe" noise are often caused by the rear mount behind the
>gearbox being worn (which isn't serious). Requires engine removal to
>replace (maybe not on an old 4 speed)
Any excuse to drop that engine out... Again, unecessary. I've never had any
problems with my engine or gearbox mountings on the 3 'Suds I've had.
Getting the height of the engine right when re-fitting helps prevent the
gearbox tail touching the underbody and making the noises you describe.
>Handling is the car's best feature. They're light and well balanced,
>which makes them a dream to drive on winding country roads. They're
>very nearly the most fun car to drive I've ever owned. Last year I had
>both my own well-worn and tatty Alfasud, and a company supplied
>brand-new Golf VR6. I _much_ preferred driving the Alfa !
Now that's what I like to hear!
>Driveshafts are dangerous. They're fastened by some undersized Allen
>bolts at the inboard end and I know far too many stories of them
>breaking in use. Be _very_ concerned about any front wheel vibration.
>Fortunately it's easy to replace them; either by Alfa spares or some
>high-tensile Allen head setscrews with lockwire through the heads.
>It's vital to replace them, with a hex bit and torque wrench, not
>just an Allen key - I AM NOT KIDDING !!
I had this problem once after a mechanic didn't torque them up properly.
I've re-fitted 'Sud driveshafts myself numerous times since, always taking
care to torque them up properly with the correct tools. I've never had this
problem since. I've only done about 70k miles in 'Suds, though.
>Bodywork is just a total rot-box. Dear me, but they got it badly wrong
>on this one 8-( Watch out for the nightmarish repairs around the
>front struts.
>
>
>Nasty jobs:
>
>Removing the handbrake cable from the front calipers - replacing it is
>even worse. Make sure you slack the lever adjustment off COMPLETELY.
Now this is definitely a job best done with the engine out, though I have
successfully replaced a handbrake cable with the engine in situ. You do have
to leave the old cable in situ as it's impossible to get at the nut holding
the middle of the cable to the gearbox. You just have to tie it up until you
next pop out the engine...
>Enjoy it anyway -- There's nothing like a good one.
Agreed, I've had a good one for the last 9 years. I'm loathe to part with
it, but if someone offered me, say 1600 quid I might be tempted.
Cheers,
Mark
Andy Dingley
<mark.k...@easynet.DELIBERATE-MISTAKE.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Andy Dingley wrote in message <366c3a89...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>>Gear linkage [...] bushes in the linkage.
>Much of what you say is right, but this is nonsense. All the bushes can be
>changed with the engine in situ.
Hmmmm...... I hope you're right here, but I certainly wouldn't like
to do them myself without dropping the engine. I don't think they're
difficult, just that pulling the engine is the quickest route.
>There is one that requires you to LOWER the
>engine a little.
So how do you do it ? When you say "lower" the engine, I assume that
you're releasing the rear mount completely, but how much can you leave
attached up front ? Both front bushes ? The side steady bar ?
Water hoses ? Driveshafts ?
>Any excuse to drop that engine out...
Well, yes - Why not ? It's the easiest engine pull I've done this
side of a Formula Ford.
> Again, unecessary. I've never had any
>problems with my engine or gearbox mountings on the 3 'Suds I've had.
_Every_ older Sud I've seen has a worn rear mounting. It's a steel bar
bonded into a large rubber block, in turn pressed into a tube in the
rear gearbox tail bracket. With age the pin comes loose from the
rubber, then after that it's a pretty rapid process for the pin
hammering back-and-forth to wear the hole in the rubber well oversize.
Like most Metalastik bushes, I suspect that avoiding any torque on the
centre pin when mounted in the normal position is crucial to getting a
long service life - ie. don't twist it when you press the bush in.
>Now this is definitely a job best done with the engine out, though I have
>successfully replaced a handbrake cable with the engine in situ.
I've replaced a tired old handbrake cable by cutting it to get the
engine out quickly, removing the ends with the engine out, then
replacing it with the engine back in place. We needed to replace the
engine quickly and make the car wheelable again and the new cable
hadn't been delivered yet.
Where do you find are the best sources for Alfasud spares in the UK ?
--
Smert' Spamionem
Markk
>On Sat, 19 Dec 1998 22:27:36 -0000, "Markk"
><mark.k...@easynet.DELIBERATE-MISTAKE.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>Andy Dingley wrote in message <366c3a89...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>>>Gear linkage [...] bushes in the linkage.
>
>>Much of what you say is right, but this is nonsense. All the bushes can be
>>changed with the engine in situ.
>
>Hmmmm...... I hope you're right here, but I certainly wouldn't like
>to do them myself without dropping the engine. I don't think they're
>difficult, just that pulling the engine is the quickest route.
Honestly, I did the job on my own car 2 years ago. If this is all you need
to do it's way easier to leave the engine in. You get at the top bushes from
inside the car, through the gear lever hole.
>>There is one that requires you to LOWER the
>>engine a little.
>
>So how do you do it ? When you say "lower" the engine, I assume that
>you're releasing the rear mount completely, but how much can you leave
>attached up front ? Both front bushes ? The side steady bar ?
>Water hoses ? Driveshafts ?
OK. I did this 2 years ago, so forgive me if I miss a minor detail. Here
goes:
Raise car. Support weight of engine+gearbox on trolley jack. Unbolt gearbox
tail mounting from body. Undo and remove main central engine mount bolt.
Lower engine (using trolley jack) 1 or 2 cm very carefully, ensuring you
don't stretch anything - particularly the front brake hoses. This gives you
_just_ enough room to remove the bolt that passes through the lower pivot of
the gearlever assembly, enabling you to replace the metal bush. So, yes, you
can leave all the bits you mentioned attached.
>_Every_ older Sud I've seen has a worn rear mounting. It's a steel bar
>bonded into a large rubber block, in turn pressed into a tube in the
>rear gearbox tail bracket. With age the pin comes loose from the
>rubber, then after that it's a pretty rapid process for the pin
>hammering back-and-forth to wear the hole in the rubber well oversize.
You're absolutely right. I've never seen this mounting intact, even on my
lowest mileage 'Sud, which I think had done only 36k when I got it. However,
I don't get the knocking noises you mentioned, even with a knackered
mounting. This is probably because I carefully adjust the height (using the
central mounting and a trolley jack, as above) of the engine/gearbox when
re-installing it such that the metal bar passes through the centre of the
rear bush, without touching it or taking any weight. This seems to work
fine. Are there any other benefits from having a new bush?
>Where do you find are the best sources for Alfasud spares in the UK ?
Undoubtedly AROC (see http://www.pncl.co.uk/aroc/index.html to join) events,
such as the Alfajumble and National Alfa Day. Loads of new and (very cheap)
second hand bits. Also the garage clearout ads in the AROC club mags and
newsletters. A few years back you could get parts from run-of-the-mill motor
factors, but the need hasn't arisen lately, so I don't know if you still
can. For new parts you could try Justsuds on 01932 222967 (eves/weekends) or
01932 400330 (days) Fax 01932 403099 (09:00-18:30). I believe Justsuds is
run by enthusiasts in their spare time. Also there's Alfashop in Norwich on
01603 426277 - a specialist motor factors and workshop outfit.
Have fun!
Mark