car spraying
Steve
thxs
--
Steve
stev...@mail.com
SkodaPilot
says...
> Does anyone know of a good website for 2 pack spraying advise
>
Probabley not much help, but I think for an amateur, the general advice
is "Don't try this at home".
--
Carl Robson
http://www.bouncing-czechs.com
Gloomy Goblin
"SkodaPilot" <carl....@bouncing-czechs.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.16a3b54a3...@news.cis.dfn.de...
What you need to know? I have some experience with 2k materials.
GG
J.L.E
Steve <stev...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote in message
news:a1c3of$ivk$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Does anyone know of a good website for 2 pack spraying advise
>
>
Do a search using the key words like... Isocyanate (sp?) paint,
health and safety, Death.
In other words you should NOT be using this paint at home, in fact
anyone (even the trade) should not use this type of paint without the
proper filtered spray ovens and air feed masks.
Gloomy Goblin
"J.L.E" <ne...@scarts.fsnet.co.unitedkingdom> wrote in message
news:a1d2m9$jij$4...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
with no proper air fed masks. If you are doing a one-off job at home, then
its highly unlikely there would be any health risks whatsoever.
GG
SkodaPilot
says...
I suppose being in the trade, you could have access to the paint etc
through the company, but isn't it illegal for paint factors to sell
2pack to the general public?
st...@painting-pointers.co.uk
"Gloomy Goblin" <nove...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Been in the trade for quite a few years, and many sprayers use 2k
> materials with no proper air fed masks. If you are doing a one-off
> job at home, then its highly unlikely there would be any health risks
> whatsoever. GG
>
>
I'd not recommend 2pack for home use anyway because many 2pack paint
products still contain isocyanites and although some paints are
isocyanite free the activators or hardeners used in them are not.
Isocyanite builds up inside your body and can't be dispersed, I'd still
want to use a spray mask even for a one off spray job.
I knew a few sprayers who died in later life because of respiratory
related problems due to never wearing an air fed spray mask.
Steve.
--
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coachpainting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
StrongArm Powered Risc PC 600, 80Mb + 2MbVram, RISC OS 4
Gloomy Goblin
<st...@painting-pointers.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5304caf5...@btinternet.com...
Thought most people died in "later life"?...........lol
GG
J.L.E
Gloomy Goblin <nove...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a1firn$lt6$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
>
> "J.L.E" <ne...@scarts.fsnet.co.unitedkingdom> wrote in message
> news:a1d2m9$jij$4...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > Steve <stev...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:a1c3of$ivk$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > > Does anyone know of a good website for 2 pack spraying advise
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Do a search using the key words like... Isocyanate (sp?) paint,
> > health and safety, Death.
> >
> > In other words you should NOT be using this paint at home, in fact
> > anyone (even the trade) should not use this type of paint without
the
> > proper filtered spray ovens and air feed masks.
> >
> >
> Been in the trade for quite a few years, and many sprayers use 2k
materials
> with no proper air fed masks.
Well they are total TWATS then....
If you are doing a one-off job at home, then
> its highly unlikely there would be any health risks whatsoever.
> GG
>
>
In sort, BOLLOX.
J.L.E
And in which case, if you really do know what you are talking about,
you will know the Health & Safety equipments for 2k paint etc.....
J.L.E
> "Gloomy Goblin" <nove...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Been in the trade for quite a few years, and many sprayers use 2k
> > materials with no proper air fed masks. If you are doing a
one-off
> > job at home, then its highly unlikely there would be any health
risks
> > whatsoever. GG
> >
> >
> I'd not recommend 2pack for home use anyway because many 2pack paint
> products still contain isocyanites and although some paints are
> isocyanite free the activators or hardeners used in them are not.
>
> Isocyanite builds up inside your body and can't be dispersed, I'd
still
> want to use a spray mask even for a one off spray job.
>
> I knew a few sprayers who died in later life because of respiratory
> related problems due to never wearing an air fed spray mask.
>
> Steve.
>
Quite agree with you Steve.
Also, even when spraying Cellulose (sp?) you should really be using a
mask, who wants particles of paint in there lungs ?!...
J.L.E
Sounds like you are one who has been affected in your brain by 2k
paint... idiot.
st...@painting-pointers.co.uk
"J.L.E" <ne...@scarts.fsnet.co.unitedkingdom> wrote:
> >Gloomy Goblin <nove...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:a1h0or$laa$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
> Sounds like you are one who has been affected in your brain by 2k
> paint... idiot.
>
LOL!
st...@painting-pointers.co.uk
"Gloomy Goblin" <nove...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
> <st...@painting-pointers.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:5304caf5...@btinternet.com...
> >
> > I knew a few sprayers who died in later life because of respiratory
> > related problems due to never wearing an air fed spray mask.
> >
>
> Thought most people died in "later life"?...........lol
> GG
>
Yes they do obviously, but you have to give the 2 pack poisons a
few years to build up inside the sprayers lungs first.
st...@painting-pointers.co.uk
"J.L.E" <ne...@scarts.fsnet.co.unitedkingdom> wrote:
> <st...@painting-pointers.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:5304caf5...@btinternet.com...
> > I knew a few sprayers who died in later life because of respiratory
> > related problems due to never wearing an air fed spray mask.
> >
> > Steve.
> >
>
> Quite agree with you Steve.
>
> Also, even when spraying Cellulose (sp?) you should really be using a
> mask, who wants particles of paint in there lungs ?!...
>
Absolutely JLE,
Remembering that "lead" paint was banned thirty years ago and now they
use Cyanide based paints, albeit for different applications.
Makes you think though.
Geoff Mackenzie
"J.L.E" <ne...@scarts.fsnet.co.unitedkingdom> wrote in message
my mouth.... 40 years ago, or thereabouts. To quote someone (George
Woods?) "If I'd known I would live this long I would have looked after
myself better".
Geoff MacK
R. N. Robinson
"Geoff Mackenzie" <geoff_m...@acsysindia.com> wrote in message
news:a1icc2$558$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> >Loads of snip
> Oh, the litigious society - I recall spraying cellulose paint with a fag
in
> my mouth.... 40 years ago, or thereabouts.
Things weren't so inflammable in those days ;-) I used to wash engine parts
in petrol similarly equipped. I have now stopped smoking so I don't do it
any more :-)
>To quote someone (George
> Woods?) "If I'd known I would live this long I would have looked after
> myself better".
>
I heard it was said by Eubie Blake, ragtime/jazz pianist (contemporary of
Scott Joplin) and song writer (I'm Just Wild About Harry), in the small
hours of the morning in a Paris bar as his companions were subsiding under
the table. He was in his nineties at the time and made it through to a
hundred - just.
Ron Robinson
Gloomy Goblin
>
> >
> > Thought most people died in "later life"?...........lol
> > GG
> >
>
> Yes they do obviously, but you have to give the 2 pack poisons a
> few years to build up inside the sprayers lungs first.
>
> Steve.
>
to cause the type of thing you are talking about.
GG
SkodaPilot
ne...@scarts.fsnet.co.unitedkingdom says...
Got to agree with you on this one, Isocynates kill, quite often slowly
over years, just like Asbestos, and coal dust, just becuase people were
ignorant in the past, doesn't mean tey should pass on their ignorance as
sound advice, just because they didn't know it was dangerous at the
time.
SkodaPilot
says...
Problem is, depending on the size of the job, a one off job mind not do
any apparent damage now, but might cause merry hell later, like
asbestos.
J.L.E
You can't say that, unless the job is done in a proper filtered spray
booth, (just for example) what about the passer-by who has breathing
problems.....
Gloomy Goblin
Smokers dont seem to bother to much!
GG
Gloomy Goblin
"J.L.E" <ne...@scarts.fsnet.co.unitedkingdom> wrote in message
You could use exactly the same argument, regarding a smelly garden bonfire,
or creosoting a fence!
Its not a good idea to use 2k materials on a frequent basis, without the
correct equipment. However there is no evidence to suggest that a 1 off home
job, is any more harmful than sitting in a smoky pub for a couple of hours.
GG
Gloomy Goblin
Discussed all of this in some depth with a guy who installs filter systems
in spray booths, in actual fact the risks of a 1 off home job, are little
more than if you were to use cellulose materials.
I you had expert first hand knowledge of the subject, then perhaps your
posts, would be a little more sensible!
GG
J.L.E
Probably not, but then some people would not do it, and even less
would if there was a Health and Safety law saying not to....
J.L.E
>
<snip>
>
> I you had expert first hand knowledge of the subject, then perhaps
your
> posts, would be a little more sensible!
> GG
>
Gloomy Goblin talking to himself I think.....
st...@painting-pointers.co.uk
"Gloomy Goblin" <nove...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
>
> Discussed all of this in some depth with a guy who installs filter systems
> in spray booths, in actual fact the risks of a 1 off home job, are little
> more than if you were to use cellulose materials.
>
> I you had expert first hand knowledge of the subject, then perhaps your
> posts, would be a little more sensible!
> GG
>
That may be so but whichever way you look at it spraying "2pack" is
still a toxic substance and whether the risks are high or not i would
not advocate it's use in the home environment.
Unlike cellulose, 2pack isocyanites are absorbed through the skin and
don't breakdown they will slowly poison the body albeit over a period of
time. I personally would not attempt a spray job at home using this type
of material without taking precautionary skin protection even for one
off spraying.
Then you'd need to consider how to remove the overspray that will
contaminate everything it lands on, it is particularly heavy with 2pack
and synthetics although not life threatening it's still difficult to
remove because it gets everywhere.
SkodaPilot
says...
>
> Smokers dont seem to bother to much!
> GG
>
I know, I'm a smoker. But smoking is still legal, at least for this
week. As far as I'm aware, 2pack spraying at home, without proper safety
equipment isn't.
SkodaPilot
says...
> I you had expert first hand knowledge of the subject, then perhaps your
> posts, would be a little more sensible!
> GG
>
If I had a little first hand expert experience of this, I would have had
training the relevant HSE regulations, and access to some if not all of
the safety gear required. And then be in a position to maybe consider
it. But as an I'm an amateur classic enthusiast, and I don't have access
to training or filtration equipment, or to be honest even a garage, then
I'm not going to take on a potentially risky job with no knowledge.
If I balls up a brushed coach paint finish, I get paint on the flor, and
runs on the panels.
If I jump in to a 2 pack paint job and don't follow the rules, I suffer
later in life.
I'm not an expert, but I think I know enough to know I don't know
enough.
If I think that my lack of knowledge is insufficient to take enough
precautions I don't do it. I either do it a different way, or I pay
someone with the equipment and knowledge to do it.
Gloomy Goblin
law that prohibits 2k spraying at home? Personally I think smoking should
be banned in public places, as this causes far more health problems, than 2k
spraying is ever going to do.
GG
Gloomy Goblin
"J.L.E" <ne...@scarts.fsnet.co.unitedkingdom> wrote in message
Much like the health warning on the back of a fag packet.........wonder if
you are a smoker? If so maybe you are doing yourself far more harm by
smoking, than doing a one off 2k paint job!
GG
Gloomy Goblin
<st...@painting-pointers.co.uk> wrote in message
news:e670a4f7...@btinternet.com...
Yes all valid points Steve, but in all honesty could you say that doing a 1
off spray job was more risky than being a cigarette smoker say? I for one
would say it would be far less risky.
Perhaps similar to saying smoking 1 fag, is going to give you
cancer............however smoking 20 a day for 25 years may well do so.
GG
Gloomy Goblin
If you make posts which seem to suggesting that you have knowledge about a
certain subject, then you admit to having no first hand knowledge
whatsoever, does this not cast a certain doubt on the credibility of all of
your postings to some extent?
GG
SkodaPilot
says...
> Perhaps similar to saying smoking 1 fag, is going to give you
> cancer............however smoking 20 a day for 25 years may well do so.
> GG
>
>
cancer.
Gloomy Goblin
Yes perhaps.........just as one Mc Donalds could give you CJD.
GG
J.L.E
> In article <a1pnpf$aj9$1...@knossos.btinternet.com>,
nove...@hotmail.com
> says...
> > Perhaps similar to saying smoking 1 fag, is going to give you
> > cancer............however smoking 20 a day for 25 years may well
do so.
> > GG
> >
> >
> Actually, if you are really bloody unlucky, 1 cigarette could give
you
> cancer.
> --
And another point about smoking vs. the risk from 2k paint (one that
'GG' seems to miss or ignore), with smoking you HAVE to inhale unlike
2k paint were mere skin contact (ie. over spray) puts you at risk.
J.L.E
>
> "J.L.E" <ne...@scarts.fsnet.co.unitedkingdom> wrote in message
> news:a1otk5$pf3$7...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> >
> > Probably not, but then some people would not do it, and even less
> > would if there was a Health and Safety law saying not to....
>
>
> Much like the health warning on the back of a fag
packet.........wonder if
> you are a smoker? If so maybe you are doing yourself far more harm
by
> smoking, than doing a one off 2k paint job!
> GG
>
>
You are showing you ignorance, warning labels and H&S laws are not the
same, one is voluntary the other is mandatory.....
J.L.E
2k paint is governed by the Hazardous materials part of the Health &
Safety laws, you are personally responsible for your own and other
peoples safety, if you act in a way that could cause harm to others or
do not act to stop something that could cause harm to others (exp. you
see an open pit and do not report it you / could / be prosecuted,
especially if someone after you noticed it falls into the pit). It
makes not a jot of difference were you are. I would check up on H&S
laws, you sound well out of date.
As a matter of interest, smoking / can / be, in effect, made illegal
under H&S laws / regs if it could cause harm to others. Hence you get
offices, factories etc. were smoking is banned.
J.L.E
>
<snip>
>
> If you make posts which seem to suggesting that you have knowledge
about a
> certain subject, then you admit to having no first hand knowledge
> whatsoever, does this not cast a certain doubt on the credibility of
all of
> your postings to some extent?
> GG
>
>
Gloomy Goblin, you could almost be talking about yourself there...
SkodaPilot
says...
Thats not a possible, thats a given. :)
Sorry
SkodaPilot
says...
> If you make posts which seem to suggesting that you have knowledge about a
> certain subject, then you admit to having no first hand knowledge
> whatsoever, does this not cast a certain doubt on the credibility of all of
> your postings to some extent?
> GG
>
What I've posted has been based on facts and in some cases what I have
read in books, on the internet, and advice given from pro sprayers (who
admittedly do have a vested interest), regarding the suitability of 2k
spraying at home, and the necessary precautions to take when using 2k at
all.
I don't need to throw myself personally under a tube train to know that
it would hurt a lot, and would be a bloody horrible way to die.
SkodaPilot
ne...@scarts.fsnet.co.unitedkingdom says...
>
> Gloomy Goblin <nove...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:a1pn9p$bm8$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
> particular
> > law that prohibits 2k spraying at home? Personally I think smoking
> should
> > be banned in public places, as this causes far more health problems,
> than 2k
> > spraying is ever going to do.
> > GG
> >
> >
>
> 2k paint is governed by the Hazardous materials part of the Health &
> Safety laws, you are personally responsible for your own and other
> peoples safety, if you act in a way that could cause harm to others or
> do not act to stop something that could cause harm to others (exp. you
> see an open pit and do not report it you / could / be prosecuted,
> especially if someone after you noticed it falls into the pit). It
> makes not a jot of difference were you are. I would check up on H&S
> laws, you sound well out of date.
>
> As a matter of interest, smoking / can / be, in effect, made illegal
> under H&S laws / regs if it could cause harm to others. Hence you get
> offices, factories etc. were smoking is banned.
Cheers J.L.E I didn't have access to the HSE stuff at home, and wasn't
sure where to look for it on the web.
st...@painting-pointers.co.uk
"Gloomy Goblin" <nove...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
> > Then you'd need to consider how to remove the overspray that will
> > contaminate everything it lands on, it is particularly heavy with 2pack
> > and synthetics although not life threatening it's still difficult to
> > remove because it gets everywhere.
> >
> Yes all valid points Steve, but in all honesty could you say that doing a 1
> off spray job was more risky than being a cigarette smoker say? I for one
> would say it would be far less risky.
This answer would depend on the type of paint material your using.
I used to be a smoker but i never smoked when spraying any substance,
some solvents give off poisonous fumes which are bad enough and in some
circumstances a burning cigarette or will convert these airborne fumes
to "Phosgene Gas" (A highly poisonous gas similarly used in warfare).
Isocyanites also emit cyanide gas and can cause irreversible liver
damage and skin diseases.
In short if you wish to spray under such curcumstances and without any
ill effect then thats fine but but i wont.
I don't smoke but i'd rather have one cigarette than spray 2pack
without proper protection even for a one off paint job.
Samuel Clements
> I don't need to throw myself personally under a tube train to know that
> it would hurt a lot, and would be a bloody horrible way to die.
For the record this only works about 50% of the time. The other 50% often
end up horribly maimed (and still depressed I guess !)
J.L.E
> GG
>
>
I hope the McDonalds legal Department don't see you remarks.....that's
pure libel.
Gloomy Goblin <nove...@hotmail.com> , you are showing your self to
be an ignorant twat, shut up before your size 20 foot kicks your shit
into the fan.......
SkodaPilot
miwat...@madasafish.com says...
Gloomy Goblin
"J.L.E" <ne...@scarts.fsnet.co.unitedkingdom> wrote in message
If the law you mention is in fact mandatory, one wonders why there have been
few prosecutions, relating to the actions of the many thousands of people
who break this law daily?
Perhaps you are showing you ignorance by being a smoker? Such behaviour is
not only a filthy habit, but will certainly cause you far more serious
health problems, than doing a 1 off 2k paint job would!
GG
Gloomy Goblin
> > 2k paint is governed by the Hazardous materials part of the Health &
> > Safety laws, you are personally responsible for your own and other
> > peoples safety, if you act in a way that could cause harm to others or
> > do not act to stop something that could cause harm to others (exp. you
> > see an open pit and do not report it you / could / be prosecuted,
> > especially if someone after you noticed it falls into the pit). It
> > makes not a jot of difference were you are. I would check up on H&S
> > laws, you sound well out of date.
> >
> > As a matter of interest, smoking / can / be, in effect, made illegal
> > under H&S laws / regs if it could cause harm to others. Hence you get
> > offices, factories etc. were smoking is banned.
>
> Cheers J.L.E I didn't have access to the HSE stuff at home, and wasn't
> sure where to look for it on the web.
> --
> Carl Robson
> http://www.bouncing-czechs.com
Let us hope you will both take your own advice and give up smoking (which is
apparently illegal under HS laws), your friends will thank you for it, and
you will both live longer. It also might be a good idea to cease posting
material on here, about a subject you clearly have only the most cursory
understanding of.
However if you have evidence to support your contention that 2k painting can
be damaging, on a 1 off basis, then obviously you have every right to your
opinions........if not perhaps best just to go and get some anti smoking
patches, and keep quiet!
GG
Gloomy Goblin
>
> Gloomy Goblin <nove...@hotmail.com> , you are showing your self to
> be an ignorant twat, shut up before your size 20 foot kicks your shit
> into the fan.......
Perhaps many would feel that someone who posts on the basis of little
understanding or knowledge of a subject, other than a wholly subjective
interpretation of Health and Safety legislation intended for commercial
operations, is also certainly an 'ignorant twat'!
GG
Gloomy Goblin
"J.L.E" <ne...@scarts.fsnet.co.unitedkingdom> wrote in message
I wonder have you noticed that I have not in fact repeated nonsense about
Health and Safety laws, which in the case of a 1 off job at home have little
bearing.
GG
Gloomy Goblin
If we all believe what we are told or read wouldnt we be in a sorry
state?.............but looking at the apalling state of the country, the
war on terror etc etc etc, it would seem there are many like you!
GG
Gloomy Goblin
"Samuel Clements" <miwat...@madasafish.com> wrote in message
news:u419s9r...@corp.supernews.com...
Guess if Rail Track had had any part in running the tube, it wouldnt have
been wholly necessary to throw yourself under the trains!
GG
J.L.E
Only were it is declared as a H&S mater in the work place, 2k paint is
declared a H&S Hazardous material anywhere (just like asbestos is, but
unlike asbestos 2k paint is not [at the moment] back up by law
( ).
your friends will thank you for it, and
> you will both live longer. It also might be a good idea to cease
posting
> material on here, about a subject you clearly have only the most
cursory
> understanding of.
Mr Gloomy Goblin, are you talking to yourself again ?....
J.L.E
Yes you are !
Go away you idiot halfwit, you have had no support for your view
regarding 2k paint, does that not tell you something (but then you are
obviously as thick as two short planks so that's not surprising, is
it) ?
J.L.E
You should check up on that... If you are causing a potential health
hazard by your spraying to others you will come under health and
safety reg, just like you would if you dug a 15ft hole in your front
garden and didn't fence it.
J.L.E
Your ignorance is amazing.....
SkodaPilot
says...
> If we all believe what we are told or read wouldnt we be in a sorry
> state?.............but looking at the apalling state of the country, the
> war on terror etc etc etc, it would seem there are many like you!
> GG
>
where free thought comes into it. I hope we aren't turning into a nation
of Sheeple.
I reserve the right to have a choice in how I kill myself, Nicotine and
Tar are my choice. Gradual build up of Isocynate poisoning isn't.
I see you point about how one job won't necessarily do you any harm. But
the problem with a lot of people is they will use a lot of paint till
they get it right.
And when they do get it right, people will see the wonderful job they
did, and ask, "who did that for you" and the reply will be "did it
meself", usually followed by "Oh how much to do one for me?" and then
suddenly this one off has turned into a weekend job, but still with no
safety knowledge, or equipment. You have to admit that that sort of
thing happens regularly.
SkodaPilot
says...
> If the law you mention is in fact mandatory, one wonders why there have been
> few prosecutions, relating to the actions of the many thousands of people
> who break this law daily?
>
It's the new government insentive "fear in the work place".
Basically, not many firms have full safety reps or union men anymore.
So not many people see the safety guidlines and laws, and when a boss
tells you to do something, and you know it may be dangerous, he tells
you, if you want to keep your job, you do it.
Just remember the 80's and mass unemployment are still strong on
everyones who is old enough to remember them. I wa sin my late teens
during much of the eighties, and wondering how the hell I would get a
decent job after school/College. The answer is I couldn't I worked in
every kind of crap job that would take me, till I couldn't take it no
more. At one point I was a warehouseman in a Loft insulation fitting
firm. The rolls would be layed on the floor sideways on, and stacked
from wall to wall, and to the ceiling. We had no hoist, or fork. If we
wanted rolls from the top, we had to climb up another stack of wobbly,
unsecured insulation, and drag and throw the rolls we wanted to the
floor 20 odd feet below. All this time you would be breathing glassfibre
dust, and getting the dust into your skin. no masks or gloves were
provided for the warehouse only fitting teams on the van. Why did I do
this? because I needed the money, and I was young and stupid.
If anyone complained they were sacked. If they were sacked they went to
trading standards, and health and safety, and were told that they had to
phone HSE went the events were happening, as they had to catch them in
the act, but there was no phone in the warehouse, only the bosses
office, the reply was "Not much we can do then"
Laws will only be upheld if breaches are reported, and if the choice is
feed you children through a crap job, or sit on the dole in the
knowledge that fibreglass is being safely stcked. Guess which choice
people take?
Gloomy Goblin
Yes I would agree entirely with what you say.......thing is though as a
smoker, you are in fact forcing non-smokers to inhale your smoke, therefore
putting their health at risk.
2k spraying on a regular basis without the proper equipment is perhaps, not
any more dangerous to the health of the sprayer than being a heavy smoker.
Your points are valid, but as I say smoking is a far more likely way to
screw ones health, than a one off 2k job. Guess if you want to take the
risks involved with being a smoker, then its a matter of choice if someone
wants to take the lesser risk of a 1off 2k spray job.
I would say that its is extremely foolish to spray 2k on a regular basis
without the proper equipment, just as it is to be a smoker (the risks of
which are known and well documented).
GG
Gloomy Goblin
"J.L.E" <ne...@scarts.fsnet.co.unitedkingdom> wrote in message
Perhaps having to result to crude personal insults, suggests that it is in
fact you, that have no evidence to support the alarmist nonsense, you have
posted on this subject?
If you do have anything wahtsoever in the way of objective fact to support
your contentions, then perhaps you could let us all know what this might be?
GG
Gloomy Goblin
"J.L.E" <ne...@scarts.fsnet.co.unitedkingdom> wrote in message
I can understand that point, but fail to see how a vague and simplistic
reference to general health and health and safety regualtions, can in any
way indicate whether a 1off 2k job is safe or otherwise...........which is
after all the subject of this thread.
GG
Gloomy Goblin
Sadly health and safety at work legislation is nowadays very poorly
enforced, and even the deaths of employees at work due to breaches of these
regulations often does not result in any action being taken.
However this is beside the point, which is under discussion, which is the
safety or otherwise of a 1 off 2k job at home.
GG
SkodaPilot
says...
> Yes I would agree entirely with what you say.......thing is though as a
> smoker, you are in fact forcing non-smokers to inhale your smoke, therefore
> putting their health at risk.
>
the NHS or what is left of it. If I'm a place where someone says, would
you mind not smoking, I will do the curtesy of putting it out.
Our work place is a smoke free environment, due to a lot of computer
equipment, and none smokers, we have a covered area outside.
I don't break the no smoking laws on buses and trains, even though a lot
of people do.
If I'm visiting a non-smoking friend, if they haven't already put out an
ash tray, I will ask if it is ok to smoke, if they say no, I go outside.
The main difference between 2k and smoking is that 2k isn't addictive,
smoking is. I know it is possible to give up, but at this point in time,
after trying several times, I feel that I am too weak willed to manage
it. I did as a teenager have a very expensive fruit machine addiction
(sounds stupid, but that is what GA is for, stupid gambling addictions).
i managed to kick that through cold turkey, and not going anyhwere where
a one arm bandit would be. Eventually I was able to go into pubs, and
clubs, and even put a few quid in a machine, without being stuck there
all night, and losing everything I was carrying. I have this horrible
feeling that stopping smoking would be much much harder.
Gloomy Goblin
I am very grateful that I have never smoked........but can understand how
difficult it must be to give up. There again if you drive a Skoda, you
probably need something to steady your nerves.........lol
GG
SkodaPilot
says...
> I am very grateful that I have never smoked........but can understand how
> difficult it must be to give up. There again if you drive a Skoda, you
> probably need something to steady your nerves.........lol
>
Very true. They tend to weave a bit under motorway conditions.
Not enough to leave a lane, but enough for you to need to keep both
hands on the wheel. With no engine at the front, and the very precise
light steering, it is very easy to over correct.
SkodaPilot
says...
> Sadly health and safety at work legislation is nowadays very poorly
> enforced, and even the deaths of employees at work due to breaches of these
> regulations often does not result in any action being taken.
>
> However this is beside the point, which is under discussion, which is the
> safety or otherwise of a 1 off 2k job at home.
>
Fair enough, I concede this, but the original post didn't ask about a
one off job, it was asking for advice on 2 pack spraying (i.e no
knowledge of the techniques or risks). General advice surely still has
to be, if you have to ask, don't do it. if you have had training in 2
pack, then fair enough, you know the risks, and any precautions you can
take at home. Then fair enough a one off should be OK, but not as a
complete novice surely.
Gloomy Goblin
It seemed to me the originator of the post was asking about a one off job. I
wouldnt really think that someone who intended to spray cars, on a
commercial basis would have to ask questions about materials on here.
If you are carrying out a one off job at home with 2k, and take the same
precautions you would with cellulose paint, then the risks involved would be
minimal.
However if you intend to operate a business using 2k materials on a frequent
basis, then I would wholly agree with the points you have raised regarding
proper equipment.
GG
SkodaPilot
says...
> Guess if Rail Track had had any part in running the tube, it wouldnt have
> been wholly necessary to throw yourself under the trains!
> GG
>
running to jump under. Just as you landed on th third rail, and started
to fry, the announcement would come over, "due to delays on the
line...", Oh Bugger
SkodaPilot
says...
> If you are carrying out a one off job at home with 2k, and take the same
> precautions you would with cellulose paint, then the risks involved would be
> minimal.
>
> However if you intend to operate a business using 2k materials on a frequent
> basis, then I would wholly agree with the points you have raised regarding
> proper equipment.
>
Looks like we are starting agree but on a difference of interpretation.
:)
J.L.E
>
<snip>
>
> It seemed to me the originator of the post was asking about a one
off job. I
> wouldnt really think that someone who intended to spray cars, on a
> commercial basis would have to ask questions about materials on
here.
>
> If you are carrying out a one off job at home with 2k, and take the
same
> precautions you would with cellulose paint, then the risks involved
would be
> minimal.
And you are the expert here are you.....
Go way idiot.
J.L.E
Idiot ! Read what I said again, this time the correct way around.....
J.L.E
The point is that you have been told that you are wrong but you wont
accept it, even though you have had no support from anyone else.
J.L.E
So you defence if someone fell down your 15ft hole would be "It was
only a one-off hole"......
Gloomy Goblin
Looks like it..........your Skoda would look nice with a shiny 2k
paintjob..........have I persuaded you it wouldnt be immediately fatal (as
JLE would have us believe)?
GG
Gloomy Goblin
"J.L.E" <ne...@scarts.fsnet.co.unitedkingdom> wrote in message
If I am wrong, perhaps you would be good enough to direct everyone, to the
source of the information, that brings you to such a conclusion..........If
you are not able to do so, then perhaps it may be fruitful to STFU!
GG
Gloomy Goblin
> > > You should check up on that... If you are causing a potential
> health
> > > hazard by your spraying to others you will come under health and
> > > safety reg, just like you would if you dug a 15ft hole in your
> front
> > > garden and didn't fence it.
> >
> > I can understand that point, but fail to see how a vague and
> simplistic
> > reference to general health and health and safety regualtions, can
> in any
> > way indicate whether a 1off 2k job is safe or
> otherwise...........which is
> > after all the subject of this thread.
> > GG
> >
> >
>
> So you defence if someone fell down your 15ft hole would be "It was
> only a one-off hole"......
You seem to be prevaricating......such considerations are beside the point,
when you are talking about a specitice subject. If you are forced to qualify
your hysterical rants, by reference to this type of thing, then perhaps they
have little objectivity or value?
GG
Gloomy Goblin
Exactly............lol
GG
Dave Plowman
Gloomy Goblin <nove...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> If I am wrong, perhaps you would be good enough to direct everyone, to
> the source of the information, that brings you to such a
> conclusion..........If you are not able to do so, then perhaps it may be
> fruitful to STFU!
I'd suggest you read the likes of Practical Classics. They give quite
reasonable advice on practical safety matters for the DIY market, and they
constantly state the dangers of 2 pack.
So I'd rather believe them *and* JLE, who after all once actually worked
in just this trade, rather than someone with a bee in his bonnet...
--
* Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites? *
Dave Plowman dave....@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn
Dave Plowman
Gloomy Goblin <nove...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> If you are carrying out a one off job at home with 2k, and take the same
> precautions you would with cellulose paint, then the risks involved
> would be minimal.
It's very unlikely someone would have the skills and equipment to use two
pack on a one off basis. Cellulose is far more suited to the beginner -
observing sensible safety precautions.
Saying one off use of two pack without the correct ventilation and
breathing equipment won't cause any health problems is therefore a bit of
a red herring.
FWIW, I wouldn't dream of using it, and I'm a smoker.
--
* If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? *
st...@painting-pointers.co.uk
"Gloomy Goblin" <nove...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
> I can understand that point, but fail to see how a vague and simplistic
> reference to general health and health and safety regualtions, can in any
> way indicate whether a 1off 2k job is safe or otherwise...........which is
> after all the subject of this thread.
> GG
>
2pack may not cause an immediate health problem by a one off paint job,
but whether it does or not is totally irrelevant anyway because home
users would not be encouraged to use 2pack paint by reputable paint
factors and in many cases would not be able to purchase it.
Why?.... Because the special working environment and breathing apparatus
required to use 2pack paint suggests otherwise.
If you choose to ignore overwhelming advice and decide to use 2pack
without protection (even as a one off) then carry on!,
We don't really care,
The majority of people are more educated on the use of 2pack now and in
most circumstances will avoid using it.
Again whether it's harmful or not as a one off paint job is irrelevant,
It's still nasty stuff.
Steve.
--
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coachpainting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
StrongArm Powered Risc PC 600, 80Mb + 2MbVram, RISC OS 4
SkodaPilot
says...
Possibly, but I've already bought the paint to learn how to coach paint
it.
Sean
> Not enough to leave a lane, but enough for you to need to keep both
> hands on the wheel.
So how d'you manage to even light a fag then, never mind smoke it?
Malcolm Ray
<dave....@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <a1u2ln$s9p$1...@knossos.btinternet.com>,
> Gloomy Goblin <nove...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> If you are carrying out a one off job at home with 2k, and take the same
>> precautions you would with cellulose paint, then the risks involved
>> would be minimal.
>
> It's very unlikely someone would have the skills and equipment to use two
>pack on a one off basis. Cellulose is far more suited to the beginner -
>observing sensible safety precautions.
I'm not sure I agree with you about the skills. I've used two-pack, and,
safety precautions aside, it's not difficult. In some ways it's easier
than cellulose, in that you can get good results with less coats than
with cellulose. But I speak from little experience, and I don't have
the facilities to use either at home, so make of this what you will.
--
Malcolm Ray University of London Computer Centre
Matt
I think I have just read the longest thread on painting and read all the
rants from various places. I've just completed a re-spray of a car in
cellulose and though I can't really point you in the right direction as
far as spraying Isocyanate paints I can tell you what I did when i
sprayed a lacquer containing Isocyanates.
The smell in a professional spray booth from overspray/chemical reaction
within the paints would not be nearly as strong as a homespray attempt
because of the ventilation in the booth itself.
I sprayed the lacquer in an enclosed space and looked at every
imaginable source regarding the safe use of Isocyanates.
Fresh air feed though highly advisable is not absolutely necessary, but,
under no circumstance should you breath the vapours directly. Consider
everytime you smell the vapour as being dangerous. I used industrial
breathing equipment, full face mask with organic solvent canister
filtration. The mask cost 80 pounds. The canister is sufficient to
remove the nasties for about 24 hours of exposure. Probably enough for
spraying a car.
Clothing out to be protected too and latex gloves sufficed for my hands.
Isocyanates and the effects that they have on the body are not fully
understood but levels of exposure before becoming seriously (and
incurably) ill vary from person to person. It is very toxic and it's
chemical combination with other airbourne solvents and particles can
end up in the formation of some particularly nasty carcinogens.
You can definitely spray at home with Isocyanate products because out of
necessity I had to use them. However the risks involved are significant
and the precautions to limit exposure to the vapour must be kept to a
minimum.
The techniques to spraying Isocyanates I cannot really comment on as I
only used a lacquer without an activator and a hardener.
Hope this helps.
Matt
Steve wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of a good website for 2 pack spraying advise
>
> thxs
> --
>
> Steve
> stev...@mail.com
Gloomy Goblin
Have seen some proper coach painting, it looked very good, and I would
imagine would be very satisfying to do.
GG
Gloomy Goblin
"Dave Plowman" <dave....@argonet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4af92907f0...@argonet.co.uk...
2k is a little more difficult to use than cellulose, but certainly not that
much harder.
Its major advantages, are that it covers far better than cellulose
materials, results in a far more durable finish, and you can often get a
good gun finish, without having to mop afterwards.
GG
Dave Plowman
Malcolm Ray <M....@ulcc.ac.uk> wrote:
> I'm not sure I agree with you about the skills. I've used two-pack, and,
> safety precautions aside, it's not difficult. In some ways it's easier
> than cellulose, in that you can get good results with less coats than
> with cellulose. But I speak from little experience, and I don't have
> the facilities to use either at home, so make of this what you will.
Exactly. Few would buy a decent compressor and spray gun to use just the
once. And cheap gear is far more likely to give runs etc, which are
possible to sort with cellulose, but not so easy with two pack.
--
* Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm *
SkodaPilot
says...
I have a smofe while it is warming up, and another as soon as I stop.
I can only smoke while drving it it is below 40 on a quiet road, so that
leaves the motorway out. The weave only really comes in above 60 so
motorway speeds only. The owners club know all about it, it is commonly
known as wind surfing. Sometimes, if a wagon passes, or you hit an
exposed patch, you might be correcting a slight drift, when it will feel
as if the whole car has been lifted, and twisted slightly, almost
exagerating the steering correction. Yet on nice twisty lanes, not a
problem, blast along just as quickly as you can down most busy motorways
(obviously with the speed limits), the steering is super light when
moving, and very accurate, and the brakes are excellent. Even a basic
120 gets 2pot discs at the front, with huge drums at the rear, while the
Rapids, and 130 Estelles get four Discs at the front , with the same
drums.
You really can throw it around at speed if you can put up with the
machine gun engine, and creaky suspension/body panels.
J.L.E
>
<snip>
>
> Looks like it..........your Skoda would look nice with a shiny 2k
> paintjob..........have I persuaded you it wouldnt be immediately
fatal (as
> JLE would have us believe)?
> GG
>
>
And how can you say that ?.....
J.L.E
>
> "J.L.E" <ne...@scarts.fsnet.co.unitedkingdom> wrote in message
> news:a1vhe9$uut$5...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> >
> > The point is that you have been told that you are wrong but you
wont
> > accept it, even though you have had no support from anyone else.
>
> If I am wrong, perhaps you would be good enough to direct everyone,
to the
> source of the information, that brings you to such a
conclusion..........If
> you are not able to do so, then perhaps it may be fruitful to STFU!
> GG
>
>
Read the tech. info that the paint makers / suppliers HAVE to supply
if asked. They are hardly going to say there is health risk if there
aren't any, seeing it's in there vested interest to sell as much of
the stuff as possible.
J.L.E
> > > >
> > >
<snip>
> >
> > So you defence if someone fell down your 15ft hole would be "It
was
> > only a one-off hole"......
>
> You seem to be prevaricating......such considerations are beside the
point,
> when you are talking about a specitice subject. If you are forced to
qualify
> your hysterical rants, by reference to this type of thing, then
perhaps they
> have little objectivity or value?
> GG
>
>
Who started on about spraying 2k paint being no worse than Smoking
?....
Pot, Kettle, Black.
J.L.E
Matt <matthew...@exeter.ox.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3C446A45...@exeter.ox.ac.uk...
<snip>
>
> You can definitely spray at home with Isocyanate products because
out of
> necessity I had to use them. However the risks involved are
significant
> and the precautions to limit exposure to the vapour must be kept to
a
> minimum.
>
You could also build a nuclear reactor at home if you wish..... !
My point is, you can do what you like at home but something's are best
avoided unless you can use / do it with the correct safety measures in
place, spraying two pack paint needs the correct ventilation /
filtration for the sprayer as well as the correct filtration for the
public [1] who otherwise can suffer from the spray fumes.
[1] public as in anyone living other than the person spraying, even
your pet dog or cat.
Dave Plowman
Gloomy Goblin <nove...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Its major advantages, are that it covers far better than cellulose
> materials, results in a far more durable finish, and you can often get a
> good gun finish, without having to mop afterwards.
I realise that, but it needs good equipment to produce such results from
the gun - as does cellulose. And if you pay for such equipment you're
likely to use it a fair bit, so should follow safety advice.
--
* There's two theories to arguing with a woman. Neither one works *
SkodaPilot
says...
> Have seen some proper coach painting, it looked very good, and I would
> imagine would be very satisfying to do.
> GG
That is what I'm hoping eventually to achieve. Even if it takes me all
summer :)
Chris
"J.L.E" <ne...@scarts.fsnet.co.unitedkingdom> wrote in message
A quite sensible and considered post from Matt........sadly more of the same
old prattle from JLE. Once again if you have the evidence, to support what
you are contending then put it on here!
GG
Sean
>
>
> I have a smofe while it is warming up
<huge snip>
errr... OK, only asking :)
J.L.E
Chris <nove...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a239v6$8j4$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
I have told you were the evidence is, you are just to thick to
understand, probably from spraying 2k paint without the correct safety
equipment.
Go away you idiot tosser and kill yourself, but don't encourage others
to do so......
Nice to see you have tried to give yourself more credence by changing
you alias.....
SkodaPilot
says...
Yep, takes a while to warm up properly, just like an old car should.
none of this jump in and go auto choke, and engine management malarky.
Gloomy Goblin
commercial operations, does not perhaps indicate unequivocally, that your
point of view, is any more or less valid than my own.
GG
J.L.E <ne...@scarts.fsnet.co.unitedkingdom> wrote in message
J.L.E
Gloomy Goblin <nove...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a24k9h$g6h$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
> Misinterpretation of Health and Safety legislation, intended
primarily for
> commercial operations, does not perhaps indicate unequivocally, that
your
> point of view, is any more or less valid than my own.
> GG
I would suggest you re-familiarize yourself with modern H&S regs, you
seem to be about 15 years out of date, judging on what you have said
above.
H&S regs don't not separate non commercial from commercial use if
there are dangers involved someone at home is just a liable as someone
in a factory (ie. if you lend your electric drill to your next door
neighbour and it has not been inspected to make sure it's safe, thus
having an inspection sticker, an it then kills your next door
neighbour you are liable and could be prosecuted by the HSE, even
though you were just doing your neighbour a favour by lending him the
drill).