Which air compressor?
Skirrow
confused, I was hoping someone could help me out.
The main reason I'm buying one is to spray cellulose paint although it
would be handy if it could run some other air tools also. It's for
home/hobby use only but I imagine that once I've sprayed one car I'll
get bitten by the bug and want to spray loads so I want a half decent
one.
Can anyone recommend a good, value for money compressor or at least
tell me what features are essential and what to avoid? The
manufacturers names that are cropping up in my searches and so on are
Clarke, Sip and ABAC. The ABAC ones are looking rather attractive due
to their price but Im wary of buying cheap stuff cos it usually means
its crap. Does anyone have experience eith the ABAC models?
Cheers
Dave
k
I would suggest you visit Machine Mart. They have a wide range of
compressors from hobby to industrial ans the prices are good. I would
reccomend buying one of at least 11/2 HP. Most towns have a branch and your
local phone book or yellow pages will put you right. I did all my spraying
at the Mini Centre in Southampton with 11/2 HP and I had no problems.
Keith
"Skirrow" <daves...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:e7b84ff9.02121...@posting.google.com...
Steve68s
1997, the one I have is made by krebbs but have seen similar in b+q for
around 30 quid,
http://minipark.lantis.co.uk/cars/bigcars/120/wetpaint.jpg
Steve.
"Skirrow" <daves...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:e7b84ff9.02121...@posting.google.com...
k
I have used an airless spray system, and the results do not compare with
proper air fed systems. The airless system just squirts the paint, the
compressor properly atomises it and gives far better results.
Keith
"Steve68s" <Steve68s(remove)@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:3dfd2925$0$230$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
Greg Dobson
helpful disscussing different size for different applications, also talk to
teacher at college's or TAFE's (thats what there called in Australia) about
it too, basically talk to as many people as possible, advice is invaluable
before you shell out you cash.
Doogie
"k" <cow...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Austin Shackles
(Skirrow) enlightened us thusly:
>Im currently in the market for an air compressor but Im getting rather
>confused, I was hoping someone could help me out.
>
>The main reason I'm buying one is to spray cellulose paint although it
>would be handy if it could run some other air tools also. It's for
>home/hobby use only but I imagine that once I've sprayed one car I'll
>get bitten by the bug and want to spray loads so I want a half decent
>one.
>
Clarke/Machine mart are generally cheap.
in general terms, the things to note about compressors are the cfm and tank
sizes. cfm is how much air the pump can deliver. Check out the things
you're likely to want to do, and find out how many cfm they need. You need
a compressor with more cfm than this. How much more will be decide by your
budget and by how much you're going to do with it. If you get a 6cfm
machine and use 5.5 cfm, the pump will run nearly all the time. For
occasional use, this won't matter, but in the long term it'll wear out too
quickly. tank size is another thing to look at, too big a tank takes ages
to fill, if you don't need lots of air, but too small a tank gives you less
reserve before the pump cuts in again.
looking in a couple of catalogs...
Screwfix Big Stuff has compressors from 60l/12cfm (FAD7.9cfm) at £380 up to
150l/15cfm (FAD 10.1cfm) at £460, all with 3hp motor
someone seems to have hidden the ordinary screwfix book.
Machine Mart: loads of compressors. some say "oil free" and others don't -
oil free is nice for spraying. cheapest ones (small) are around 90 quid.
I'd recommend getting hold of the machine mart book and studying the
compressors and the air tools etc, of which they have a multitude. has all
the data about how much air required etc.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Something there is that doesn't love a wall."
Robert Frost (1874-1963)
Andrew Todd
> confused, I was hoping someone could help me out.
Basically buy the biggest you can. If you want the best paint finish, you're
best off using a pro gun, which will use a lot of air. The smaller 1HP
compressors will not be able to keep up.
Also belt driven is best if you can afford it, they are quiter and reduce
wear on the motor. A motor with twin capacitors is also a boon, since it
reduces current surge on startup, which blows fuses. (v. annoying,
especially when you've just mixed your paint ;-))
As others have posted, Machine Mart have a good selection, but it's also
worthwhile keeping your eyes on Loot/eBay. Often industrial folk sell off
old machines, which can be a bargain. I bought my Ingersoll Rand 3HP (14cfm,
10cfm FAD) machine from Loot for £200; all it needed was a service and has
worked very well ever since.
Good luck, I know it can be a minefield!
Andrew
--------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Todd
www.citroen-restoration.co.uk
and...@citroen-restoration.co.uk
Graeme
> confused, I was hoping someone could help me out.
>
bigger than your most hungry tool, probably a DA sander if you intend
getting one. 9 or 10 cfm fad will probably be about right. Should cost you
around £320 from Machine Mart.
Graeme
Matt
Bought one about 2 years ago. 2HP I think, 8.5CFM, 50 litre tank. It is
the service that I love though. Any problems and they are very helpful,
to the point of sending spares for free.
I happily sprayed a car and have done numerous other bits and pieces, I
suspect that for the more demanding tools though it will flag. You need
10+ CFM to run DA sanders and grit blasting effectively. You can do bits
in shorted bursts with both of those tools but it might get a little
frustrating.
Hope it helps,
Matt
fragged
mine came from machine mart and from memory i think its 14cfm ( cubic feet
per min ) and a 150ltr air tank.
Go for the biggest cfm you can afford.. then you can run anything...14 cfm
is just right for my home use.
fragged
"Skirrow" <daves...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:e7b84ff9.02121...@posting.google.com...
J
motors = big current draw. If you plug a 3HP motor into a 13amp socket the
best that will happen is that the fuse will blow, the worst is your wiring
may melt!
I've just acquired a compressor from www.compressormart.com it was a
clearance line but 2HP and 10cfm with a 50 litre tank and will run off
13amps - it's about as big as you can go without a 20 amp supply (which for
me meant rewiring to the garage and a new distribution panel in the house!)
I wanted to do some sand blasting and it's barely up to the job. I will run
some air tools of it and when I get the confidence up I'll try a bit of
spraying.
J
"Skirrow" <daves...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:e7b84ff9.02121...@posting.google.com...
MrT
is that the fuse will blow, the worst is your wiring may melt!...""
Aarghh!
I too will be looking to purchase a compressor in the new year, for
occasional spraying, air saw, waxoyl gun, underseal gun, DA sander, etc, so
I'm watching this thread with interest!
I've almost decided on a belt-driven compressor, with a 50-100 litre tank. I
haven't yet decided what CFM or HP ratings I need though. As I'm about to
start wiring up my new garage (4 way MCB consumer unit in the garage fed
from the consumer unit in the house by 24 amp armoured cable), will my
armoured cable cope, and should I provide a separate circuit (in the garage)
for the compressor alone?
Dale
k
"MrT" <practica...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:atlfl6$4fg$2...@venus.btinternet.com...
> ""...If you plug a 3HP motor into a 13amp socket the best that will happen
> is that the fuse will blow, the worst is your wiring may melt!...""
>
A 3 HP motor should not draw more than about 11 amps from the mains at 240
volts. 1 HP is approximately equivalent to 750 watts which for 3HP would be
2250 watts divided by the voltage gives 9.375 amps, well within the rating
of a domestic ring main. so even 11 amps is within ratings.
You would be looking at over about 4.75HP before your ringmain would be
overloaded
Keith
Graeme
>
> "MrT" <practica...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:atlfl6$4fg$2...@venus.btinternet.com...
> > ""...If you plug a 3HP motor into a 13amp socket the best that will
happen
> > is that the fuse will blow, the worst is your wiring may melt!...""
> >
> Hi.
> A 3 HP motor should not draw more than about 11 amps from the mains at 240
> volts. 1 HP is approximately equivalent to 750 watts which for 3HP would
be
> 2250 watts divided by the voltage gives 9.375 amps, well within the
rating
> of a domestic ring main. so even 11 amps is within ratings.
> You would be looking at over about 4.75HP before your ringmain would be
> overloaded
> Keith
I run my 3hp comp from domestic supply quite happily. There are now 4hp
comps that run from it too. Soft start electronics or something. It is the
initial start current that causes the problem, esp against a part charged
tank. Many have a relief system which means the motor never starts against a
load. It dumps pressure until the motor is up to speed.
Graeme
Charles Hamilton Snr.
you have 40 amps capability!
"Graeme" <gra...@adaptivedesign.co.uk> wrote in message
news:atlrmn$nlj$1...@venus.btinternet.com...
Andy Dingley
<practica...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>will my armoured cable cope,
Easily - it's a motor.
The problem with compressors is the current surge on startup. This
takes out fast breakers (you might want to fit a C curve MCB) or even
fuses, but it's not a major heating problem for reasonably sized
cables.
Make sure there's an unloader valve (pretty common nowadays). This
allows the compressor to pump into an initially low pressure.
Andy Dingley
wrote:
>Im currently in the market for an air compressor
An SIP from Axminster. Much better machines than Machine Mart, and the
prices are better too.
14 cfm (displacement) is sensible for a domestic.
If you buy a random orbital sander, get a good one. The cheapies are
enormously wasteful of air, and they're one of the hungriest tools
you'll use.
A 3/8" air ratchet is cheap, and surprisingly useful for winding long
bolts in and out.
Forget grit blasting. The spot guns are only useful for spots. A
pressure pot can work for small stuff (up to a wheel in a cabinet),
but it'll tax any single phase compressor. Body panels are best taken
to someone with a booth and suit.
Dave Skirrow
models significantly quieter than others? I work nights and so I might end
up having a few late nights in the garage, I live in a built up area. Is you
average belt driven compressor too noisy for the neighbours at 4am??
"Skirrow" <daves...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:e7b84ff9.02121...@posting.google.com...
Graeme
"Dave Skirrow" <dski...@nospamntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:AWDL9.1182$594.83003@newsfep2-gui...
> Thanks for the help everyone. I do have another question though. Are any
> models significantly quieter than others? I work nights and so I might end
> up having a few late nights in the garage, I live in a built up area. Is
you
> average belt driven compressor too noisy for the neighbours at 4am??
>
is also a source of noise, bodging a silencer onto your intake will help a
lot.
Graeme
Perman
been woken up by it kicking in at two in the morning so if I can hear it so
can neighbours.
You could build a fibre board box around it to kill some of the noise but
then you would need ventilation for cooling also.
Martin P
--
replace my jumbled email with martin...@btopenworld.com. May the force
be with you, if she isn't you're on a hiding to nothing.
"Dave Skirrow" <dski...@nospamntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:AWDL9.1182$594.83003@newsfep2-gui...
Graham
> Some give a db level. In any case you can just build a box around it.
Those who are old enough to remember when the "paperless office" was
"just around the corner" will also remember the very noisy devices used
to ensure that it wasn't, printers which depended on impact to make
their mark. In the 1980's every office had at least one printer cabinet
carefully designed to shield the rest of the office from the racket made
by the printer. If you can find one to look at, most of the principles
of sound proof enclosure are there. In particular note the sound
deadening lining and the convoluted path of any openings to the outside.
> Intake is also a source of noise, bodging a silencer onto your intake
> will help a lot.
In this case the people who have already solved the problems for you are
of course the car manufacturers.
We fitted an air cleaner assembly from a Vauxhall Viva (an HA, not the
new fangled HB which was called a Torana here) to an air compressor with
a surprising reduction in induction noise. Something a little more
modern might do an even better job. The original air cleaner was a
simple pancake design exposed around the edges of the element.
Since your compressor is likely to be down in the 10 to 20 cubic feet
per minute range and even a Vauxhall Viva probably draws about 70 cfm
going flat out, an air cleaner assembly off even a small car (did
someone say 848) is entirely adequate.
I think David Vizard has something to say about induction noise in one
of his books - his suggestions would be equally applicable to a 12cfm
compressor, which is about what a Mini draws cruising at moderate speed.
k
There is a make of compressor called Hydrovane. This is a rotary
compressor,and is very quiet and gives instant full pressure as soon as it
starts. The pressure is smooth and continuous,ie it does not pulse like a
piston compressor. It does not need a tank. However, these are primarily
industrial types and may not be available for operation on domestic mains.
Another big thing in their favour is that they are very much smaller than an
equivalent piston type.
Keith
"Perman" <nit.ma...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:atn3fp$muiv$1...@ID-134860.news.dfncis.de...
Perman
Another thought regarding Air storage is to purchase a 50 litre Truck brake
tank, I keep mine charged as extra air with the compressor or when getting
the comp out of the garage is not always easy charge the Auxiliary and take
that to the car etc for pumping up tyres etc.
My tank will look after 8 x wheels before I needs filling again.
Martin P
--
replace my jumbled email with martin...@btopenworld.com. May the force
be with you, if she isn't you're on a hiding to nothing.
"Perman" <nit.ma...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:atn3fp$muiv$1...@ID-134860.news.dfncis.de...
Perman
use they still have tanks for storage unless your willing to pay out for a
large unit.
Martin P
--
replace my jumbled email with martin...@btopenworld.com. May the force
be with you, if she isn't you're on a hiding to nothing.
"k" <cow...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:atnva6$mhj$1...@venus.btinternet.com...
Dave Skirrow
>
> >
> Dont be fooled by cfm figures. The fad figure is the one you want. Make it
> bigger than your most hungry tool, probably a DA sander if you intend
> getting one. 9 or 10 cfm fad will probably be about right. Should cost you
> around £320 from Machine Mart.
>
> Graeme
>
>
I was fooled so thanks for pointing this out to me. I'll be going for
something cheaper than the size you suggest though, probably around the 6cfm
fad mark. It seems that this will run a small spray gun (I don't need a £400
DeVilbiss yet) and a few other bits like drills and nibblers and the like.
The DA Sander will just have to be run on lecky instead of air.
Cheers
Dave
Dave Skirrow
able to run the DA Sander but I'm hoping it'll be alright for spraying and
the odd bit of use with a drill and wrenches.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2082011316
Dave
"Skirrow" <daves...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:e7b84ff9.02121...@posting.google.com...
Austin Shackles
<and...@citroen-restoration.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>
>"Skirrow" <daves...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>news:e7b84ff9.02121...@posting.google.com...
>> Im currently in the market for an air compressor but Im getting rather
>> confused, I was hoping someone could help me out.
>
>
>Basically buy the biggest you can. If you want the best paint finish, you're
>best off using a pro gun, which will use a lot of air. The smaller 1HP
>compressors will not be able to keep up.
>
>Also belt driven is best if you can afford it, they are quiter and reduce
>wear on the motor. A motor with twin capacitors is also a boon, since it
>reduces current surge on startup, which blows fuses. (v. annoying,
>especially when you've just mixed your paint ;-))
>
>As others have posted, Machine Mart have a good selection, but it's also
>worthwhile keeping your eyes on Loot/eBay. Often industrial folk sell off
>old machines, which can be a bargain. I bought my Ingersoll Rand 3HP (14cfm,
>10cfm FAD) machine from Loot for £200; all it needed was a service and has
>worked very well ever since.
Just been thinking about FAD, and I think it stands for Free Air Delivery or
some such, (could be wrong there) and is the rate which the pump will keep
up with long-term, or something, whereas the cfm rating is normally based on
the swept volume of the pump and the nominal speed of the motor.
but worth looking into how much air the tools you're apt to want to use need
- as Andrew says, a decent spray gun needs quite a bit of air, and a small
compressor won't keep up, meaning you have to spray in fits and starts,
which doesn't work.
Just looking at the Northern Tool catalogue here...
Prices starting around £140 inc vat for a tiddler (5cfm, 25litre) and going
up from there... you can buy Ingersoll-Rand from them, but not cheaply -
3hp, 200l, 10.8cfm FAD = £528-odd inc vat.
One thing I noticed about Clarke/Machine Mart is they do a 2X3hp with 2
pumps, which gets you a decent-sized (28 cfm displacement) machine which
will run on a 240V supply. Most of the big ones are 3-phase.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt"
(confound the men who have made our remarks before us.)
Aelius Donatus (4th Cent.) [St. Jerome, Commentary on Ecclesiastes]
Austin Shackles
<practica...@btinternet.com> enlightened us thusly:
>""...If you plug a 3HP motor into a 13amp socket the best that will happen
>is that the fuse will blow, the worst is your wiring may melt!...""
>
you can run a 3HP motor from a 30A supply, provided you're not running
anything else at the time. 3HP motor, once running, will draw about 10-12A
I should think.
I have a pressure washer which is 3HP, and it runs on a single 13A plug -
BUT, you have to depressurise it (by pulling the trigger) in order to start
it - the start-up load is much higher than 13A. If you just turn it on, it
blows the fuse in the plug.
your compressor should be OK for starting, as it's not *really* under load
in the same way as the pressure washer is.
You might find it needs 2 plugs - I'm sure the electrical types would have a
fit at this. I have a 140A arc welder which is stuck at full output and
takes considerably more than 13A when it's actually working. Do any
significant amount of welding with it, and it blows the fuse. It used to
cut out all the time, 'til I fitted a cooling fan to it, then it started
blowing the fuse. It now has 2 13A plugs, on identical-length wires. You
have to be careful where you plug it in, mind - it has to go on a double
socket on a direct 30A fuse, which fortunately is what I have in the
workshop. It can be run on an extension, if you have 2 identical
extensions. Like I say, I bet the electrical types would have a fit, but it
works, and it's not blown anything up yet. 's only the same as wiring it
into a 30A switched spur, really.
This solution ought to work for a compressor, too, if you want it to be
mobile. If you want to install it in one place, fit a 30A switched spur and
wire it into that - just make sure that you have a genuine 30A supply on the
line.
Andrew Todd
"Charles Hamilton Snr." <putt...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:atlui6$c3q$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
> You could always use the cooker socket in the kitchen then
> you have 40 amps capability!
Mine is currently running off the cooker outlet. I will eventually be
re-wiring the garage with a dedicated 40amp supply from the house inlet, and
a seperate circuit in the garage solely for the compressor. The line to the
garage is heavy duty armoured cable, which is fine and never gets remotely
warm.
Interestingly, the Ingersoll Rand manual actually states that you should fit
a slow-blow type fuse, to avoid it blowing every time you start the unit up.
Generally it's fine, but if as a precaution I usually limit the amount of
things I have running in the garage when the compressor is on.
It's a 3HP Ingersoll (10cfm FAD) btw.
Cheers
Andrew
Austin Shackles
<dski...@nospamntlworld.com> enlightened us thusly:
>Thanks for the help everyone. I do have another question though. Are any
>models significantly quieter than others? I work nights and so I might end
>up having a few late nights in the garage, I live in a built up area. Is you
>average belt driven compressor too noisy for the neighbours at 4am??
Clarke/Machine Mart do a range called shhh...air which are "super quiet,
virtually silent" (yeah, right...).
However, they do this partly by being a small pump. The largest one has 3
pumps, and totals only 6.5cfm displacement. Low power input, mind, only
1.37 HP. sound level is quoted as 40dB at 1M, which isn't bad at all. I
know that a small direct drive one at a place I worked was bloody noisy.
no-one else seems to admit any noise levels.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Brevis esse laboro, Obscurus fio" (it is when I struggle to be
brief that I become obscure) Horace (65 - 8 BC) Ars Poetica, 25
k
"Austin Shackles" <aus...@ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:38ttvuc2bgcakbhou...@4ax.com...
>
> Just looking at the Northern Tool catalogue here...
>
> Prices starting around £140 inc vat for a tiddler (5cfm, 25litre) and
going
> up from there... you can buy Ingersoll-Rand from them, but not cheaply -
> 3hp, 200l, 10.8cfm FAD = £528-odd inc vat.
>
> One thing I noticed about Clarke/Machine Mart is they do a 2X3hp with 2
> pumps, which gets you a decent-sized (28 cfm displacement) machine which
> will run on a 240V supply. Most of the big ones are 3-phase.
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
> "Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt"
> (confound the men who have made our remarks before us.)
> Aelius Donatus (4th Cent.) [St. Jerome, Commentary on Ecclesiastes]
Hi, I have also been looking at Northern Tool and equip catalogue today and
there are some interesting units on sale.
All at 2HP rating: 7CFM, 5CFM (free air) 10 litre tank £105 (inc vat)
8CFM, 6CFM (free air) 25 litre tank £129.24
9CFM, 6CFM (free air) 50 litre tank, £164.49.
And all free delivery
One of these might suit?
Phone number: 0800 169 2266
Keith
Dave Plowman
k <cow...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> I have used an airless spray system, and the results do not compare with
> proper air fed systems. The airless system just squirts the paint, the
> compressor properly atomises it and gives far better results.
I'd agree with that after having a fair old play with one. If you need a
cheap portable setup get an Apollo HVLP type - they give excellent results.
--
*Bills travel through the mail at twice the speed of cheques *
Dave Plowman dave....@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn
Andrew Marshall
<aus...@ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>your compressor should be OK for starting, as it's not *really* under load
>in the same way as the pressure washer is.
>You might find it needs 2 plugs - I'm sure the electrical types would have a
>fit at this.
> I have a 140A arc welder which is stuck at full output and
>takes considerably more than 13A when it's actually working. Do any
>significant amount of welding with it, and it blows the fuse. It used to
>cut out all the time, 'til I fitted a cooling fan to it, then it started
>blowing the fuse. It now has 2 13A plugs, on identical-length wires.
I used to have a 3KW isolation transformer which I used on my
electronics workbench when servicing equipment. It blew 13A fuses when
switched on, even off-load, so I put in a separate fusebox with a 15A
rewirable fuse, and fitted a 15A 3-pin socket and plug - end of problem.
I suspect the same might well work for portable pressure washers, air
compressors, and similar kit required to work at one location, but on
the end of a flex.
Our electric oven is also similarly wired - at full load it takes 15A at
240v, and a 15A plug and socket, wired to its own breaker, connects its
supply. IIRC in South Africa, British-pattern 15A plugs were/are used,
and there they are rated at '15/20A'; they certainly look very capable
of handling the higher current safely.
Regards,
Andrew.
--
Andrew Marshall
Unsolicited advertising matter unwelcome. Offenders may be blacklisted.
Dave Plowman
Austin Shackles <aus...@ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> You might find it needs 2 plugs - I'm sure the electrical types would
> have a fit at this.
Well, yes. If you unplug only one of them it will have a live line pin.
> I have a 140A arc welder which is stuck at full output and takes
> considerably more than 13A when it's actually working. Do any
> significant amount of welding with it, and it blows the fuse. It used
> to cut out all the time, 'til I fitted a cooling fan to it, then it
> started blowing the fuse. It now has 2 13A plugs, on identical-length
> wires. You have to be careful where you plug it in, mind - it has to go
> on a double socket on a direct 30A fuse, which fortunately is what I
> have in the workshop. It can be run on an extension, if you have 2
> identical extensions. Like I say, I bet the electrical types would have
> a fit, but it works, and it's not blown anything up yet. 's only the
> same as wiring it into a 30A switched spur, really.
Not quite. The theory about how ring mains work is quite involved, IIRC.
--
*Gargling is a good way to see if your throat leaks.
Austin Shackles
<grimlycur...@hotmail.com> enlightened us thusly:
>On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 07:31:18 +0000, Austin Shackles
><aus...@ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>It now has 2 13A plugs, on identical-length wires. You
>>have to be careful where you plug it in, mind - it has to go on a double
>>socket on a direct 30A fuse, which fortunately is what I have in the
>>workshop. It can be run on an extension, if you have 2 identical
>>extensions. Like I say, I bet the electrical types would have a fit, but it
>>works, and it's not blown anything up yet. 's only the same as wiring it
>>into a 30A switched spur, really.
>
>Kerist. Why not just wire a proper HD supply for it?
'cos then it'll only work in the one place - like this, it's mobile.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then
something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination -
we learned to talk." Pink Floyd (1994)
Austin Shackles
<dave....@argonet.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
yebbut, I don't plug it into a ring main. as I said, it needs to go into a
double socket with enough amps in it. I'd have thought that a 30A switched
spur outlet on a wall wouldn't be on a ring either.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Dave Plowman
Austin Shackles <aus...@ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > Not quite. The theory about how ring mains work is quite involved, IIRC.
> yebbut, I don't plug it into a ring main. as I said, it needs to go
> into a double socket with enough amps in it. I'd have thought that a
> 30A switched spur outlet on a wall wouldn't be on a ring either.
No - rings are only used for 13 amp sockets. The fact that you take it out
and about makes it even more dangerous. I'd actually prefer you replaced
the fuse in one plug with a length of copper rod. The idea of having this
second plug accidentally removed while it's still live frightens me.
--
*There's no place like www.home.com *
Graham
> >>It now has 2 13A plugs, on identical-length wires.
> >Kerist. Why not just wire a proper HD supply for it?
Austin Shackles wrote:
> 'cos then it'll only work in the one place - like this, it's mobile.
Like this it is a mobile death trap.
Perman
bodied plug and socket which are rated higher than 13 amps.
Martin P
--
replace my jumbled email with martin...@btopenworld.com. May the force
be with you, if she isn't you're on a hiding to nothing.
"Dave Plowman" <dave....@argonet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4ba700329b...@argonet.co.uk...
Dave Plowman
Perman <nit.ma...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
> Just a thought but has no body considered an Industrial, blue, 3 pin
> round bodied plug and socket which are rated higher than 13 amps.
Trouble is these can't be used with a ring main - they have no fuse in
the plug. They'd be fine on a suitable radial circuit, and indeed are
designed for this sort of use.
--
*I must always remember that I'm unique, just like everyone else. *
Perman
so that between house breakers and appliance I have another fuse to cover
the cable.
Martin P
--
replace my jumbled email with martin...@btopenworld.com. May the force
be with you, if she isn't you're on a hiding to nothing.
"Dave Plowman" <dave....@argonet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4ba8e7a4bb...@argonet.co.uk...
Austin Shackles
<dave....@argonet.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>In article <au4j7k$4apem$1...@ID-134860.news.dfncis.de>,
> Perman <nit.ma...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>> Just a thought but has no body considered an Industrial, blue, 3 pin
>> round bodied plug and socket which are rated higher than 13 amps.
>
> Trouble is these can't be used with a ring main - they have no fuse in
>the plug. They'd be fine on a suitable radial circuit, and indeed are
>designed for this sort of use.
I'd not be inclined to put garage/workshop type things on a ring anyway.
but industrial plugs would be a good solution, yeah, for mobile plant that
needs more than 13A.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; and
therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee"
John Donne (1571? - 1631) Devotions, XVII
Austin Shackles
<zeb...@alphalink.com.au> enlightened us thusly:
not really. It's only a potential problem if you run it with only one of
it's plugs in a socket, whereupon the other one will be live.
with both plugs plugged in, the worst you can do is blow a fuse somewhere
else - after all, 2X13A is what you're supposed to be able to get from a
double 13A socket, if you can't, there's something seriously wrong with the
wiring upstream of it.
I did consider the potential for one cable to carry all the current, but
since the 2 cables and plugs are identical, and the same length, the
difference in resistance between the 2 can only be very small.
In a crap installation, it could overheat the wiring leading to the socket,
but only if that wiring isn't up to spec.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Austin Shackles
<dave....@argonet.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>In article <7s0b0vg5lc9q0thm2...@4ax.com>,
> Austin Shackles <aus...@ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>> > Not quite. The theory about how ring mains work is quite involved, IIRC.
>
>> yebbut, I don't plug it into a ring main. as I said, it needs to go
>> into a double socket with enough amps in it. I'd have thought that a
>> 30A switched spur outlet on a wall wouldn't be on a ring either.
>
>No - rings are only used for 13 amp sockets. The fact that you take it out
>and about makes it even more dangerous. I'd actually prefer you replaced
>the fuse in one plug with a length of copper rod. The idea of having this
>second plug accidentally removed while it's still live frightens me.
yeah, well, I tend to know where it's plugged in. If I thought someone
might come and unplug it, I'd either take steps to prevent this or not use
it there. Nearly all the time it's on the welding bench here, and *I* know
not to unplug one plug. Obviously it requires a little care in using it.
Putting a copper bar in one plug wouldn't give the same answer. This way,
it's still fused, and if for example it shorts out internally or something,
it should blow the fuses in the plugs, rather than incinerating the flex,
the machine or the house. I suspect it actually draws about 20A or so,
though I've not actually measured it.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero" (sieze today, and put
as little trust as you can in tomorrow) Horace (65 - 8 BC) Odes, I.xi.8
Dave Plowman
Perman <nit.ma...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
> It wouldn't take much to put in a small fuse box as I have done in my
> garage so that between house breakers and appliance I have another fuse
> to cover the cable.
The best way is to run in a dedicated feed to the garage from the house
meter and not going through the house CU. Preferably around 60 amps. Cable
is cheap.
--
*If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried *
Dave Plowman
Austin Shackles <aus...@ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> Putting a copper bar in one plug wouldn't give the same answer. This
> way, it's still fused, and if for example it shorts out internally or
> something, it should blow the fuses in the plugs, rather than
> incinerating the flex, the machine or the house. I suspect it actually
> draws about 20A or so, though I've not actually measured it.
In a serious fault condition, 2x13 amp fuses would take longer to blow
than a 30 amp MCB to trip, IMHO.
--
*Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.
Perman
in parallel so would be greater.
Martin P
--
replace my jumbled email with martin...@btopenworld.com. May the force
be with you, if she isn't you're on a hiding to nothing.
"Dave Plowman" <dave....@argonet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4ba905d2c3...@argonet.co.uk...
Austin Shackles
<dave....@argonet.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>In article <h59c0vsml57hg6bg5...@4ax.com>,
> Austin Shackles <aus...@ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Putting a copper bar in one plug wouldn't give the same answer. This
>> way, it's still fused, and if for example it shorts out internally or
>> something, it should blow the fuses in the plugs, rather than
>> incinerating the flex, the machine or the house. I suspect it actually
>> draws about 20A or so, though I've not actually measured it.
>
>In a serious fault condition, 2x13 amp fuses would take longer to blow
>than a 30 amp MCB to trip, IMHO.
yeah, well, if the 30A (and generally, they seem to be 32A) trip kicks out,
then it's done it's job, hasn't it, and nothing goes on fire. The only
thing that's really potentially dangerous is the ability to have a live plug
floating around, and I take care to avoid that.
The 2x13A will probably take about 50A between 'em for a few minutes,
without blowing, true. and so, I expect, will a traditional 30A fuse,
unless fuse wire for putting in rewirable fuses is less tolerant. I once
had a 3KW heater plugged into an extension which, unknown to me, had a 5A
fuse fitted. it took about 5 minutes to blow the 5A fuse, running at about
12A...
The welder, however, doesn't blow 30A fuses, even in extended use, nor does
it blow the 2x13A in extended use, so I conclude that it doesn't, in fact,
draw more'n about 20A.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
Alphonse Karr (1808 - 1890) Les Guêpes, Jan 1849
John Manders
was to solder a piece of 15A fuse wire across a blown 13A fuse. the wire
took suge loads better and was just enough more to take the load.
One word of caution. The modern type of 13A plug with insulated pins may be
safer but the conductor area of the pins under the insulation is quite small
and can overheat. For large loads, try to use an older type of plug with
solid pins. I also soft soldered across the rivetted conections on the fuse
clips to give better conductivity.
This thread seems to have moved off the original question. Still interesting
though.
Merry Christmas John
Austin Shackles
<j.ma...@rl.ac.uk> enlightened us thusly:
the problems with the square-pin 3-pin BS1363 plugs are most often with the
sockets, in fact. Cheap sockets have poorly-aligned connectors, which only
make a point contact on the pin. Decent sockets make good contact and thus
don't overheat.
really good sockets have a solid metal part and a spring part, so that it
makes face contact on one side. some cheap ones just have a 2-sided spring,
which at best makes a line contact on each side of the pin.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"For when the One Great Scorer comes to write against your name,
He marks - not that you won or lost - but how you played the game"
Grantland Rice (1880-1954). my opinions are just that