Bleeding drum brakes
Marinaman
brakes) and it is very difficult to bleed them properly. I had this trouble
with a drum brake Herald some years ago and ended up wrapping thick wire
around the wheel cylinders and then bleeding them, it worked but is there a
better way?
--
Cheers Andy Jones
1959 Austin A40
1971 Morris Marina 1.3 Coupe' (2)
1972 Morris Marina 1.3 Coupe' automatic
1972 Morris Marina 1.3 Saloon
1972 Morris Marina 1.8 TC Coupe'
1974 Morris Marina 1.3 Coupe'
1975 Morris Marina 1.8 SDL Estate
mac
you could make such a device with a large veterinary syringe and
appropriately sized vinyl tubing. crack the bleed screw open and withdraw
the plunger, sucking fluid out.
--
Mac Townsend,
Adcom Graphics, Fairfield, CA:
Electronic Prepress
www.adcomgraphics.com
AWM
(1) adjust up the brakes
(2) bleed with slow pumps -- even more slowly on the return stroke (a
slightly worn master cylinder seal can suck air in on the return stroke --
a slow return stroke reduces this) --- about 4 to 7 trokes per wheel is
usually all that is required.
(3) hold the pedal to the floor pleis closed.
If pedal stil not firm check for leaks
"Marinaman" <an...@marinaman.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a8a5pr$278$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
R. N. Robinson
(drum
> brakes) and it is very difficult to bleed them properly. I had this
trouble
> with a drum brake Herald some years ago and ended up wrapping thick wire
> around the wheel cylinders and then bleeding them, it worked but is there
a
> better way?
>
Is there anything the wire trick does that couldn't be achieved by adjusting
the brakes right up? I have usually found that if you have a bleeding
problem, then every time you have the pedal on the floor, close the bleeder
valve before you release the pedal. The theory being that it stops air
being sucked in around the threads of the bleeder valve.
Ron Robinson
Marinaman
thanks for replies, I had a go today again using Mac's idea with the syringe
which was partly successful, but still there is about 2 '' movement on
the pedal. I think it is ok for the mot but it was much better before! I
don't usually have a problem bleeding brakes apart from 2 Heralds and this
Marina all with a very similar front drum set up!
--
Cheers Andy Jones
1959 Austin A40
1971 Morris Marina 1.3 Coupe' (2)
John Shepherd
1. Try an Eezibleed pressurised brake bleeder (it runs off the spare
tyre)
2. Are the seals in the master/slave cylinders perfect? I once had
similar problems with an unbleedable clutch. The slave cylinder wasn't
worn enough to leak fluid out, but it *was* worn enough to let air in.
3. If a hose or any other joint in the system were cross-threaded this
could result in a similarly imperfect seal.
4. Are the hoses genuinely new? If new/old stock they may have perished
in storage.
5.On the bright side you do have quite a few other Marinas to blast
around in until it's fixed.
Try not to crash into anything
John Shepherd
1972 Marina 1.3 Coupe - just the one.
In article <a8a5pr$278$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>,
Samuel Clements
> 1. Try an Eezibleed pressurised brake bleeder (it runs off the spare
> tyre)
>
but lower the pressure in the tyre right down first !
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Dave Plowman
Samuel Clements <miwat...@madasafish.com> wrote:
> > 1. Try an Eezibleed pressurised brake bleeder (it runs off the spare
> > tyre)
> >
> but lower the pressure in the tyre right down first !
Ahh. So you've done it too, then? ;-)
--
* I have plenty of talent and vision. I just don't care.
Dave Plowman dave....@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn
Marinaman
"John Shepherd" <johnsh...@freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:johnshepherd-2A38...@eurus.uk.clara.net...
> Dear Andy
>
> 1. Try an Eezibleed pressurised brake bleeder (it runs off the spare
> tyre)
>
> 2. Are the seals in the master/slave cylinders perfect? I once had
> similar problems with an unbleedable clutch. The slave cylinder wasn't
> worn enough to leak fluid out, but it *was* worn enough to let air in.
>
> 3. If a hose or any other joint in the system were cross-threaded this
> could result in a similarly imperfect seal.
>
> 4. Are the hoses genuinely new? If new/old stock they may have perished
> in storage.
>
> 5.On the bright side you do have quite a few other Marinas to blast
> around in until it's fixed.
>
> Try not to crash into anything
>
> John Shepherd
>
> 1972 Marina 1.3 Coupe - just the one.
>
>
> Hi John, I did try an Eezibleed, the brake hoses were about 3 years old
and the problem seems to be in the front drum brakes.
--
Cheers Andy Jones
1959 Austin A40
1971 Morris Marina 1.3 Coupe' (2)
William Davies
> > Hi John, I did try an Eezibleed, the brake hoses were about 3 years old
> and the problem seems to be in the front drum brakes.
Isn't it always the fronts! I'm sure Andy'll remember that I've had the same
problem on certain Heralds, while other (apparently identical) cars have
been no problem. About 10 years ago I ended up selling a 948 Saloon with all
new hoses, slave cylinders and a rebuilt master - I never got the brakes as
good as I wanted them and selling the car cheap was a better option than
having it sat outside depressing me forever!
Wish me luck as today's job is rebuilding the brakes and front
suspension on my "new" 1200 Coupe,
Cheers,
Bill.
--
Rarebits4classics
.......just what you've been looking for
PO Box 1232
Calne
Wiltshire
SN11 8WA
United Kingdom
http://www.rarebits4classics.co.uk
AWM
clamping each hose in turn trick to try and narrow it down.
"Marinaman" <an...@marinaman.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a8gmti$gqh$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
>
>
AWM
"William Davies" <w.da...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:FISq8.3277$8q1.4...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
mounted absolutely true to the disc surface, this causes a lot of springy
travel in the pedal. This usually isn't a problem with production cars but
on cars conveted to discs with bolt on brackets it can cause a lot of head
scratching.
Dave Plowman
William Davies <w.da...@virgin.net> wrote:
> Isn't it always the fronts! I'm sure Andy'll remember that I've had the
> same problem on certain Heralds, while other (apparently identical) cars
> have been no problem. About 10 years ago I ended up selling a 948 Saloon
> with all new hoses, slave cylinders and a rebuilt master - I never got
> the brakes as good as I wanted them and selling the car cheap was a
> better option than having it sat outside depressing me forever! Wish me
> luck as today's job is rebuilding the brakes and front suspension on my
> "new" 1200 Coupe,
Did you try adjusting *all* the shoes back and front up *tight* before
bleeding? Then after normal bleeding a few savage pumps of the pedal with
the bleed nipple tightened between each one? And only putting new fluid
out of a fresh can in - not re-using even clean stuff?
--
* When the going gets tough, the tough take a coffee break *
Samuel Clements
>
> Ahh. So you've done it too, then? ;-)
>
... but yes, I have. :-O
Dave Plowman
Samuel Clements <miwat...@madasafish.com> wrote:
> > > but lower the pressure in the tyre right down first !
> >
> > Ahh. So you've done it too, then? ;-)
> >
> Score one for RTFM ! It is there in the instructions ...
> ... but yes, I have. :-O
The other one is if your master cylinder is in an awkward place, check and
double check you've not cross threaded the cap they supply and that it's
airtight. Messy stuff, brake fluid. ;-)
--
* I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it *
William Davies
AWM <am...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:a8gtie$5hd$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
> I am starting to suspect a leak they can be difficult to find, try the old
> clamping each hose in turn trick to try and narrow it down.
Ha! I tried that on the problem Herald - I could clamp any single hose and
get a rock hard pedal, but as soon as all 4 were unclamped, it went soft
again...... very frustrating!
PJML
> AWM <am...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:a8gtie$5hd$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
> > I am starting to suspect a leak they can be difficult to find, try the old
> > clamping each hose in turn trick to try and narrow it down.
>
> Ha! I tried that on the problem Herald - I could clamp any single hose and
> get a rock hard pedal, but as soon as all 4 were unclamped, it went soft
> again...... very frustrating!
> Cheers,
> Bill.
>
One trick I have had some succes with is as follows:
Bleed the brakes as usual.
Press the pedal down *hard* and then wedge it down with
a piece of wood or something.
Leave overnight.
Bleed brakes again.
The theory is that, under sustained pressure, any small
bubbles of air trapped in the system will be more likely
to dissolve into the fluid itself - you then expel the
now-aerated fluid by bleeding.
This was the only way I eventually managed to get the
clutch to work on my old Escort after I'd fitted a hydraulic
bellhousing conversion and 2000E gearbox.
robw...@wxs.nl
wrote:
>>
>> 4. Are the hoses genuinely new? If new/old stock they may have perished
>> in storage.
>>
>> 5.On the bright side you do have quite a few other Marinas to blast
>> around in until it's fixed.
>>
>> Try not to crash into anything
>>
>> John Shepherd
>>
>> 1972 Marina 1.3 Coupe - just the one.
>>
>>
>> Hi John, I did try an Eezibleed, the brake hoses were about 3 years old
>and the problem seems to be in the front drum brakes.
Andy,
I have read elasticity in the hoses could introduce a soft pedal
too...: they're widening up under pressure!
Braided hoses (metal wire covered) didn't have this problem...
HTH
rob
NL
robw...@wxs.nl
wrote:
>I bleed my MG with a gadget that sucks the fluid out from the bleed nipple.
>you could make such a device with a large veterinary syringe and
>appropriately sized vinyl tubing. crack the bleed screw open and withdraw
>the plunger, sucking fluid out.
>
>--
>Mac Townsend,
Mac,
How do you prevent entering air passing the thread of the opened bleed
valve and so making difficult/impossible to see if the air extracted
by the syringe or gadget is from the system of from leakage????
I noticed this leaking in pressure-bleeding to (maybe the thread of
the bleedvalves don't seal very good, some teflon tape will not do (as
intended to seal only once: when you close the screw), and
cu-grease... - I was hesistating to use that on the screw!
Would be nice to know how you do overcome this..
rob
NL
Jon Tilson
the brakes were adjusted correctly.
Aeroquip hoses do give a firmer peddle too.
The Master cylinder input shaft clevis pin can also give some play.
Also the spring in the master cylinder could be broken and not cause the
piston to come all the way back....hard to spot unless the cylinder is off
the car.
Make sure the bleed nipple is above all fluid pipe inlets too, else its
impossible to bleed out all the air.
Jonners
AWM
<robw...@wxs.nl> wrote in message news:3cad8d48...@news.wxs.
>
> I have read elasticity in the hoses could introduce a soft pedal
> too...: they're widening up under pressure!
> Braided hoses (metal wire covered) didn't have this problem...
>
> HTH
>
> rob
> NL
>
less stiff than Aeroequip hoses BUT on a drum braked car the effect would be
so small compared to the in built travel I doubt if it would even be
detectable.
Strictly speaking aircraft style steel reinforced teflon hoses are not legal
in the EU, and they have a number of disadvantages over OEM hoses, so unless
you have a good reason for using them it is better not too.
AWM
not again !"
"PJML" <pj...@nerc.ac.uk.loopback> wrote in message
news:3CAD811C...@nerc.ac.uk.loopback...
Marinaman
"AWM" <am...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:a8reqa$kr9$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
> And before I had to change both front hoses the brake pedal was fine!
there is definately still air in the system.
AndrewMacFadyen
the end and let air in on the return stroke -- but I have only ever seen
this twice both times on Imp slave cylinders. If the spongeyness is caused
by air and not a leak I suspect the master cylinder seal drawing air in on
the return stroke of the pedal.
"Marinaman" <an...@marinaman.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a8sj7b$45h$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
AWM
or Girling master cylinder but usually Lockheed --- the generic Lockheed
type master cylinder has the tapered spring inside the cylinder which often
breaks through fatigue near the narrow end. It could be bleeding the brakes
was just enough to make the spring fail. If this is the case the spring
salvaged from a mini clutch master cylider will fit.
Ian Johnston
wrote:
: The one sure way of bleeding Marina brakes is with a pressure bleeder.
: Works every time.
I have a pressure bleeder. Every so often I think to myself "It can't
be as bad as I remember. If I clean everything carefully and get the
joints well sealed, it must work." So I clean everything carefully,
make sure the joints are as well sealed as I can, get a nicely
almost-flat tyre to give just a hint of pressure ... and invariably
end up pissing brake fluid out of a) the reservoir b) the reservoir to
hose join c) the hose to master cylinder join and d) the master
cylinder lid.
I strongly supect those who claim to have had any success with the
things to be part of a Worldwide Conspiracy (TM) organised and funded
jointly by brake fluid and paint manufacturers.
Ian
Marinaman
"AWM" <am...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:a8v1f0$lt2$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
> Just had a look to make sure, its the Girling 0.7in
cast alloy master cyl. When we were bleeding the piston stuck in it so I
fitted a new (old stock) master cyl, but it made no difference. I suspect
the old master cyl stuck as it was being pushed well beyond it's normal
range of movement during bleeding!
AWM
"Ian Johnston" <engs...@ermine.ox.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-dcwGq0nyiwWy@localhost...
> On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 21:13:37, Grimly Curmudgeon <sh...@themoon.org>
> wrote:
>
> : The one sure way of bleeding Marina brakes is with a pressure bleeder.
> : Works every time.
>
If you find need a pressure bleeder on a Girling or Lockheed system
something is wrong -- the only advantage of a pressure bleeder is it keeps
the seals expanded against the bore hence stops air getting drawn in as the
master cylinder piston returns. If the seals are in good condition and the
pedal is returned slowly with ther bleed nipple fully open this isn't a
problem on any UK made hydraulic systems. However some continental Teeves
and Bendix brake and clutch systems are very prone to this and for these a
pressue bleeder is the only way -- a vacum bleeder will only draw more air
in. The use of "one way" one man bleed nipples will also cause more air to
be drawn in past the seals.
Jim Warren
<snip>
> The use of "one way" one man bleed nipples will also cause more air to
> be drawn in past the seals.
>
>
I have had good results with "one way" bleed tubes - but there were two
different types some years ago when I last bought one, and they weren't
equally useful. One type was plastic with a gravity or returning fluid
activated ball in a housing at the end. This type was useless. The other
was rubber with a ball bearing in the tube and a split near the end, and
relied on pressure stretching the rubber to get fluid out. This type worked
perfectly. The trick to avoid drawing air in is to jam the pedal down on
the last bleed stroke and close do up the nipple before letting the pedal
return.
PJML
Whatever happened to the "ABV" bleed-nipples-with-little-
spring-loaded-valves-in them that you used to be able to
buy? I had them on my Escort, and they seemed to work
OK!
//PJML//
Ian Johnston
: In article <cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-dcwGq0nyiwWy@localhost>, Ian Johnston
: <URL:mailto:engs...@ermine.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
: >
: > I strongly supect those who claim to have had any success with the
: > things to be part of a Worldwide Conspiracy (TM) organised and funded
: > jointly by brake fluid and paint manufacturers.
:
: Worked perfectly with my P100 brakes earlier today...
Then you are a witch.
Burn him!
Ian
Dave Plowman
Ian Johnston <engs...@ermine.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> I have a pressure bleeder. Every so often I think to myself "It can't
> be as bad as I remember. If I clean everything carefully and get the
> joints well sealed, it must work." So I clean everything carefully,
> make sure the joints are as well sealed as I can, get a nicely
> almost-flat tyre to give just a hint of pressure ... and invariably
> end up pissing brake fluid out of a) the reservoir b) the reservoir to
> hose join c) the hose to master cylinder join and d) the master
> cylinder lid.
I've only once had this with a cross threaded master cylinder cap - my own
fault. It could be your polythene tubing has gone hard - try cutting the
ends off and re-making the connections, or just replacing it.
--
* How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost? *
Jim Warren
PJML <pj...@nerc.ac.uk.loopback> wrote in message
>
> Whatever happened to the "ABV" bleed-nipples-with-little-
> spring-loaded-valves-in them that you used to be able to
> buy? I had them on my Escort, and they seemed to work
> OK!
>
I fitted them to one car I had - a Mayflower, I think. They worked fine for
a while, but eventually the springs rusted and didn't spring load the valve
anymore. A good idea, spoiled by the wrong choice of materials.