Ford V6 Timing gear
A C Moorcroft
gear. I'm aware that steel gears are available as replacements but are there
any disadvantages to fitting one? (The engine is standard and for normal
road use.)
I'm not finding much ford V6 info on web searches. Anyone got some useful
links to companies selling parts, on-line or otherwise, preferably in UK or
IRL.
Thanks
Al
MrCheerful
the metal ones are noisier. in real terms the original ones are quite
long lived. burton performance sell parts. specialised engines also
do parts
http://www.burtonpower.com/system/index.html
http://www.specialisedengines.co.uk/
MrCheerful
Ashley (UK)
"Huge" <hu...@ukmisc.org.uk> wrote in message
news:ava25q$okm$3...@anubis.demon.co.uk...
> "A C Moorcroft" <alistair.moo...@btinternet.com> writes:
> >My Dad's Essex V6 engine has just stripped the plastic teeth off the
timing
> >gear. I'm aware that steel gears are available as replacements but are
there
> >any disadvantages to fitting one?
>
>
>
But surely its worth sacrificing a little noise for the fact that you have a
metal timing gear instead of a plastic one?
I think the modern Vauxhall engine suffers the same fate with plastic pulley
wheels. The literally break up and destroy your engine :-(
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release Date: 12/25/02
AWM
"Ashley (UK)" <asvnor...@9wilton.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:avbnp7$fd7$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Huge" <hu...@ukmisc.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:ava25q$okm$3...@anubis.demon.co.uk...
> > "A C Moorcroft" <alistair.moo...@btinternet.com> writes:
> > >My Dad's Essex V6 engine has just stripped the plastic teeth off the
> timing
> > >gear. I'm aware that steel gears are available as replacements but are
> there
> > >any disadvantages to fitting one?
> >
> > Noise.
> >
> >
>
> But surely its worth sacrificing a little noise for the fact that you have
a
> metal timing gear instead of a plastic one?
>
> I think the modern Vauxhall engine suffers the same fate with plastic
pulley
> wheels. The literally break up and destroy your engine :-(
>
Found a few Rovers with the locating dowl hole on scintered steel cam belt
sprockets doing similar things.
Going back to the Essex this always was a problem on these engines on the
Zodiac Mk4 the fibre wheels only lasted about 25kmiles, the steel gears are
noisier but willl do the job.
PJML
>
> In article <avbnp7$fd7$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> Ashley \(UK\) <asvnor...@9wilton.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > But surely its worth sacrificing a little noise for the fact that you
> > have a metal timing gear instead of a plastic one?
>
> reasons. And it's perfectly satisfactory for the standard engine - even at
> Vitesse levels of tune. Nothing wrong with using plastic if it's properly
> designed.
Indeed. Most of the *recent* failures of the fibre-type
camgears on Ford V6s, I feel, can be related to prolonged
overheating. V6 Scimitars are prone to gear-failure, and
also prone to cooling maladies. However, I know of
several V6 Transits that were seriously overloaded and
thrashed mercilessly [as rally-car service-barges]
but never suffered cam-gear failure. They didn't
overheat either - which I put down to the huge radiators
in those things.
Boiling a fibre gear in oil for a few months isn't
good for it. My Scimitar still runs the fibre-type
gear, and doesn't overheat!
AWM
"Dave Plowman" <dave....@argonet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4bb090409c...@argonet.co.uk...
> In article <avbnp7$fd7$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> Ashley \(UK\) <asvnor...@9wilton.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > have a metal timing gear instead of a plastic one?
>
> reasons. And it's perfectly satisfactory for the standard engine - even at
> Vitesse levels of tune. Nothing wrong with using plastic if it's properly
> designed.
>
Yes on the Ford V6 the problems were due to nasty torsional vibrations, the
Colonge V6 suffers from it also (to a lesser extent), usual Ford engine
design -- first make a couple of million units then try sort out the
problems.
AWM
"PJML" <pj...@nerc.ac.uk.loopback> wrote in message
news:3E1987F5...@nerc.ac.uk.loopback...
Its a vibration problem, if the engine operates in the particular rev band
where the vibration occurs the gear teeth through fatigue, the tall gearing
of the Scimmitar "might" be working against it because it allows cruising at
lower rpm.
Adrian Stapley
> Philip Stokes <ne...@nospam.invalid> writes:
>>X-No-Archive: Yes
>>
>>Hello Huge, in message <ava25q$okm$3...@anubis.demon.co.uk> on Sun, 5 Jan
>>2003 you wrote:
>>>"A C Moorcroft" <alistair.moo...@btinternet.com> writes:
>>>>My Dad's Essex V6 engine has just stripped the plastic teeth off the
>>>>timing gear. I'm aware that steel gears are available as replacements
>>>>but are there any disadvantages to fitting one?
>>>
>>>Noise.
>>
>>So it is said,
>
> Indeed. My Essex was so old it had the fibre ones. Corrosion of the
> enclosing
> vehicle (*) was a much bigger problem than timing wheels. :o)
>
> (* Mk1 Capri 3000 E)
>
Shame indeed. THe only 3-litre Capri's I have seen recently were two JP
specials at the Wesssex car show, frayed at the edges.
Adrian
--
Getting wight to the filthy stuff
Adrian Stapley
I have steel wheels in two of my cars, and you wouldn't know it by the
noise level. One is a Burton wheel, and the other a J W Dvelopments wheel.
The JW wheel has 4 keyways cut in it allowig you to vary the cam timing in
3 degree increments should you decide that you don't need so much clearance
between valves and pistons :)
PJML
> "PJML" <pj...@nerc.ac.uk.loopback> wrote in message
> > camgears on Ford V6s, I feel, can be related to prolonged
> > overheating. V6 Scimitars are prone to gear-failure, and
> > also prone to cooling maladies. However, I know of
> > several V6 Transits that were seriously overloaded and
> > thrashed mercilessly [as rally-car service-barges]
> > but never suffered cam-gear failure. They didn't
> > overheat either - which I put down to the huge radiators
> > in those things.
> >
> > Boiling a fibre gear in oil for a few months isn't
> > good for it. My Scimitar still runs the fibre-type
> > gear, and doesn't overheat!
>
> Its a vibration problem, if the engine operates in the particular rev band
> where the vibration occurs the gear teeth through fatigue, the tall gearing
> of the Scimmitar "might" be working against it because it allows cruising at
> lower rpm.
Mine tends to get cruised at something between 3500
and 4000RPM, with regular excursions to much higher
revs in the lower gears [I have a rev-limiter set to
6100RPM to moderate my exuberance].
I wonder - given the seriously-strange gear-load-pattern
that must be created by the V4-versions of these
engines, were they worse eaters-of-cam-gears than
the V6 versions? My only experiences of the V4 were
in a Transit and a Corsair 2000E.
Ashley (UK)
> Ashley \(UK\) <asvnor...@9wilton.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > have a metal timing gear instead of a plastic one?
>
> reasons. And it's perfectly satisfactory for the standard engine - even at
> Vitesse levels of tune. Nothing wrong with using plastic if it's properly
> designed.
>
Interesting. Its a plastic 'jockey' wheel set up on the m50/m52 BMW engine
as I'm sure you are aware Dave. Mine has done 114k and they 'seem' okay. As
they are only 15 quid each I might change them as a precaution soon though.
Do you think that plastic components in the timing set up on cars will age
as well as a metal one?
I guess its all a question of good maintenance.
Dave Plowman
Ashley \(UK\) <asvnor...@9wilton.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> Interesting. Its a plastic 'jockey' wheel set up on the m50/m52 BMW
> engine as I'm sure you are aware Dave. Mine has done 114k and they
> 'seem' okay. As they are only 15 quid each I might change them as a
> precaution soon though.
Is that cam chain jockeys? My 525 had done 135,000 by the time I sold it
and had no chain noise at all when warm. So I don't know.
> Do you think that plastic components in the timing set up on cars will
> age as well as a metal one?
It would depend on the spec of the plastic, I'd guess. The one on my SD1
looked as new at a high mileage, although the camshaft itself was worn.
But I got a new one as part of the kit from Rimmers, so fitted it anyway.
> I guess its all a question of good maintenance.
Lots of plastics don't like UV or whatever the sun puts out - not a
problem with timing gears. Plastic in BMW cooling systems seems to give
trouble as well.
--
*Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.
Dave Plowman dave....@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn
Ashley (UK)
> In article <avf40s$fmd$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> Ashley \(UK\) <asvnor...@9wilton.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > Interesting. Its a plastic 'jockey' wheel set up on the m50/m52 BMW
> > engine as I'm sure you are aware Dave. Mine has done 114k and they
> > 'seem' okay. As they are only 15 quid each I might change them as a
> > precaution soon though.
>
> Is that cam chain jockeys? My 525 had done 135,000 by the time I sold it
> and had no chain noise at all when warm. So I don't know.
Applogies. Its not the timing jockeys but the ones that are part of the '
Fan V Belt route' for the cooling and Power steering systems. There are two
support wheels made from plastic, although they must have bearings inside i
would presume. Just out of curiosity what year was your 525? Any problems
over the mileage/time you owned the car mechanically?
> Lots of plastics don't like UV or whatever the sun puts out - not a
> problem with timing gears. Plastic in BMW cooling systems seems to give
> trouble as well.
Mine is pretty brittal. Just had problems with the radiator bleed screw.
Luckily only a pound from the dealer. A lot of the plastic surrounding the
radiator is also brital, have to see what goes next..............
> --
> *Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.
>
> Dave Plowman dave....@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
> RIP Acorn
Dave Plowman
Ashley \(UK\) <asvnor...@9wilton.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > Is that cam chain jockeys? My 525 had done 135,000 by the time I sold
> > it and had no chain noise at all when warm. So I don't know.
> Applogies. Its not the timing jockeys but the ones that are part of the
> ' Fan V Belt route' for the cooling and Power steering systems. There
> are two support wheels made from plastic, although they must have
> bearings inside i would presume. Just out of curiosity what year was
> your 525? Any problems over the mileage/time you owned the car
> mechanically?
Ah. I don't know if I'd bother changing them as a precaution as a fan belt
coming off isn't in the same class as a timing belt or chain doing the
same.
It was a '92 - the first 24 valve, non VANOS. Nothing with the power
train, but rear subframe bushes and alternator had to be replaced apart
from normal service items. The engine, if anything, was up on power from
normal judging by the performance, and didn't need any oil between
services. The gearbox would occasionally 'thump' when kicking down into
second, but did that all the time I had the car and didn't get any worse.
> > Lots of plastics don't like UV or whatever the sun puts out - not a
> > problem with timing gears. Plastic in BMW cooling systems seems to
> > give trouble as well.
> Mine is pretty brittal. Just had problems with the radiator bleed screw.
> Luckily only a pound from the dealer. A lot of the plastic surrounding
> the radiator is also brital, have to see what goes next..............
Yes, I took the fan cowling off my E39 to change the serpentine belts and
discovered it was cracked at one of the fixing holes. Perhaps the fact
that the normal press studs had been replaced by cable ties on this FMDSH
car had something to do with it...
--
*Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life *
Ashley (UK)
> In article <avfg27$m6o$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> Ashley \(UK\) <asvnor...@9wilton.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Is that cam chain jockeys? My 525 had done 135,000 by the time I sold
> > > it and had no chain noise at all when warm. So I don't know.
>
> > Applogies. Its not the timing jockeys but the ones that are part of the
> > ' Fan V Belt route' for the cooling and Power steering systems. There
> > are two support wheels made from plastic, although they must have
> > bearings inside i would presume. Just out of curiosity what year was
> > your 525? Any problems over the mileage/time you owned the car
> > mechanically?
>
> Ah. I don't know if I'd bother changing them as a precaution as a fan belt
> coming off isn't in the same class as a timing belt or chain doing the
> same.
>
> It was a '92 - the first 24 valve, non VANOS. Nothing with the power
> train, but rear subframe bushes and alternator had to be replaced apart
> from normal service items. The engine, if anything, was up on power from
> normal judging by the performance, and didn't need any oil between
> services. The gearbox would occasionally 'thump' when kicking down into
> second, but did that all the time I had the car and didn't get any worse.
My Auto does this when its cold. Id assume its the same gearbox that was in
yours. If i let it get into second gear before i get to the bottom of the
road it clunks back into first. Also there is a little noise on first gear,
dissapears when she changes up. Not got any worse since ive owned the car
and got the dealer to check the gearbox oil level which i was assured is
fine.
> Yes, I took the fan cowling off my E39 to change the serpentine belts and
> discovered it was cracked at one of the fixing holes. Perhaps the fact
> that the normal press studs had been replaced by cable ties on this FMDSH
> car had something to do with it...
Ouch! Thats quite shocking. mine shattered too and they cost 15p each. Also
i spoke to soon as to what was going to 'go' next. Ive discovered a crack in
my thermostat housing today..................
> --
> *Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life *
>
> Dave Plowman dave....@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
> RIP Acorn
Chris Bolus
<adr...@semleystation.spammed-to-hell.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Shame indeed. THe only 3-litre Capri's I have seen recently were two JP
>specials at the Wesssex car show, frayed at the edges.
>
Not many of those left. Last year I saw a S Yorks Capri Club member
selling a white one, who told me white versions were now in single
figures.
--
Regards, Chris (Please take out my car to reply by email)
----1961 Austin A40 Farina----1966 Triumph Herald Estate---
--1969 Riley Elf--1965 Wolseley 16/60--1965 Hillman Minx---
-------1972 Mini Clubman estate------1957 Standard 8-------
---- Website at www.b0lus.com ----
********** Please don't email in HTML! **********