Shogun coolant problem
TMC
I have a problem with the coolant on my Shogun. It is the 2.5 turbo diesel
1991 model
Over about 100 miles the level in the expansion tank rises by at least 3cm
and sometimes to the top of the tank. Longer journeys cause the tank to
overflow.
I have changed the radiator cap and the thermostat, and flushed the cooling
system
The engine temperature gauge does not rise above its normal position.
There is no sludge in the oil, no steam from the exhaust and no loss of
power.
The movement of water seems greater after cruising at higher revs for some
time.
I fear that the head gasket is the cause but wonder if there could be any
other reason as there are no other head gasket symptoms
Any thoughts appreciated
Tony
Huw
"TMC" <to...@rubbish.digby01.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1025951760.24618....@news.demon.co.uk...
You may have a leak in the pipe from the rad top to the bottom of your
expansion tank. Possibly the coolant expands into the tank but cannot
be sucked back into the rad when cooling occurs.
There may be a fault in the rad cap or there may be a slight head
gasket or other gas leak into the coolant.
Huw
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.373 / Virus Database: 208 - Release Date: 01/07/02
Henk
The dealer put the cooling-system under pressure and couldn't find anything
wrong. The problem stayed.
Later they removed the head and checked out the head-gasket but failed to
check the head itself. The problem stayed.
So they lifted the head again and had the head tested.
There was a crack at the 4th cylinder at the injection (don't know the
corect word in english) not visible without proper testing. (happens more
according stories, mine went at 199000Km's)
They put on a revised head.
Next problem a engine which ran hot when towing a caravan.
They probably put pills in the radiator at the first repair.
In the mean time they went bankrupt, so I put in a new radiator myself.
Problem gone.
About 6000Km later the head fell apart (all glowchambers where lose and
some came down on the pistons) so the engine died.
The company who delivered the head revised the engine at there expence after
applying some pressure as they give i year guarantee on there products.
Nice, but it took several months before they did this.
So if you check out the engine yourself, or the dealer, make sure they test
the head also.
Let them check out the injectionplugs as well as the have to be removed for
the test anyway.
good luck
Henk
"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> schreef in bericht
news:3d2b5...@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
Huw
"Henk" <hpisuiss...@wish.net> wrote in message
news:aggv9a$7f6$1...@reader1.tiscali.nl...
> I had the exactly the same with my 1993 Pajero 2,5TDi.
> The dealer put the cooling-system under pressure and couldn't find
anything
> wrong. The problem stayed.
> Later they removed the head and checked out the head-gasket but
failed to
> check the head itself. The problem stayed.
> So they lifted the head again and had the head tested.
> There was a crack at the 4th cylinder at the injection (don't know
the
> corect word in english) not visible without proper testing. (happens
more
> according stories, mine went at 199000Km's)
> They put on a revised head.
> Next problem a engine which ran hot when towing a caravan.
> They probably put pills in the radiator at the first repair.
> In the mean time they went bankrupt, so I put in a new radiator
myself.
> Problem gone.
> About 6000Km later the head fell apart (all glowchambers where lose
and
> some came down on the pistons) so the engine died.
I hate to say it but the 2.5 has a poor reputation for head and head
gasket problems. Check the simple things first though.
Richard Sanderson
The mitsubishi shogun/pajero 2.5TDI isthe worst engine i have ever owned. I
had a 92 and the cam belt snaped taking cyclinder head out with it i have
had to put new main shells on the bottom (beacuse they werte on the way
out) the silent shaft sezied on me the engine sezied on me twice but had
more than enough oil at the time and it has had new alternator starter and
host of other problems. I suppose this is why mitsubishi removed the 2.5
very quickly and replaced it with a chain driven 2.8 diesel. 2.5 is a very
underpowed engine for the size of the car 98bhp is just enough for a fiesta
never mind a shogun the 2.8tdi has 128bhp quite a big increase but best of
all the new 3.2DID have wait for it 160 somthing of bhp mitsubishi it seemes
has learnt to not make its diesel engines work to hard to ensure a longer
life and happieer customers. Now all they have to do is to bolt another 2
cyclinders on to make it a 6 cyclinder isnted of a 4.
CPF
It could be a head gasket, but you should be getting creaming of the oil.
Get the system pressure tested and get a good flush done. See if you can
blast out any old shit.
You could be getting a vapour lock around the back-end of the block, with
the pump squeezing out the coolant, rather than circulating it.
The 2.5's weren't that bad, but very low-power.
"TMC" <to...@rubbish.digby01.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1025951760.24618....@news.demon.co.uk...
pete rowland
the same problem.... runs cool but looses coolant etc.
In my case I'm convinced that the issues is exhaust gases getting into
the coolant.... these raise the pressure and push the coolant through
the rad cap (I can actually see the top-hose 'bloating' under
pressure!)
If I take hose to the expansion tank, and immerse it in water, I can
see bubbles & coolant coming from the radiator. If I run the engine
with the rad cap off, then after an initial displacement of coolant, I
can see the bubbles venting to the top of the coolant - just like
lemonade.
Futhermore, where the coolant was once a nice clear blue, it's now
turning to an inky-blue.
The next question is how much ?!!...
Is it just a blown head gasket?..
or is it a cracked head ?
I guess a strip-down and pressure test is the only way to find out.
Does anyone known if these engines have a reputation ?
Cheers
Pete Rowland.
"CPF" <chri...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message news:<3d44d...@news.iprimus.com.au>...
vince
had - it is offroad all the time - in his garage!
He had a loss of coolant and a cloud of stem in cold weather from his
exhaust - it turned out the head had cracked in 4 places - cost of a
replacement head was £1500 so he bought a Range Rover instead!
There is supposed to be a bit of a problem with these but how true it is I
don't know. More likely just the head gasket
A pressure test don't always tell you what you need to know - stripdown only
real solution - as i said prob just the headgasket - let us know how you get
on!
chris
could simply be the coolant boiling..
"pete rowland" <peter_r...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e9549ddc.02082...@posting.google.com...
pete rowland
I only had the rad cap off for testing.... it can still produces a
stream of bubbles past the rad cap, with the temp guage at normal.....
I was only trying to point out that I think the excess pressure is not
due to overheating.
and
By pressure testing, I meant taking the head off for pressure testing
:-(.
Pete.
"chris" <chris4...@spamcsmith25.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<INSa9.5859$JZ5.1...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>...
TMC
pressure test by a specialist company.
Had to have a new head.
Incidentally when the engine was stripped to do this we found that 2 of the
pistons were cracked and the other two showing signs. Ended up with a new
short engine as well
Regards
Tony
TMC
Mine cost £450
Tony
TMC <to...@rubbish.digby01.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:aklnv4$9k9$1$830f...@news.demon.co.uk...
vince
> Just read other posts £1500 for a new head seems a bit expensive
>
> Mine cost £450
>
> Tony
Where the hell did you get it from? My mate would be very interested in a
head at that price - he has a 1993 swb 2,5td intercooler
TMC
supplied a new head fitted with the serviceable bits from my old one. Welham
are a long established and well thought of company who do mostly commercial
vehicle engine rebuilds.
Checked with mechanic today as yet to pay him (car is only just finished)
Cost was £445 including vat. He said that later engines had recessed valves
but that the head for these he thought was only about £100 more.
Mitsubishi said £699 plus vat for a bare head for my 1991 model
Regards
Tony
vince <cyclops.tech...@tesco.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:dVub9.2317$S51.1...@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net...
vince
have changed. At that price he will get the job done!
pete rowland
I've stripped mine down and can see some evidence of the problem. The
block has a narrow slit machine between the bores... (presumably to
vent stop vapour/air locks the water jacket ?) From the burned gasket,
I can see that the gasses have crosses into this slot (between 1 & 2)
and into coolant.... plus the closest head bolt was carbonned up too
;-(.
The head/block/pistons 'look' ok, but I won't do any more until I get
the head tested for cracks and distortion.
I let you know what they find.
Pete.
BTW Milner Conversions (http://www.milnerconv.co.uk/) look pretty good
for bits.
"TMC" <to...@rubbish.digby01.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<aklnv4$9k9$1$830f...@news.demon.co.uk>...
pete rowland
skimming. Still, a lot cheaper that a new casting.
The folk-lore seems to be that you can skim the 2.5TD (4D56) but not
the 2.8 (4M40).
I'll see what happens.
Pete.
peter_r...@hotmail.com (pete rowland) wrote in message news:<e9549ddc.02090...@posting.google.com>...
TMC
Hope its Ok
Mine is running a dream now
Tony
pete rowland <peter_r...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e9549ddc.02090...@posting.google.com...
Davey
engines behind me i'd say U just kissed goodbye to a nice Wedge of cash
mate.
If the top hose is "Bloating" as you out it, then it is pressurised
beyond the normal 6psi or so you would expect to see. The "bubbles"
thing in your text is not really significant, because of a little
phenomena called "Cavitation", the water pump will cause this bubbling
to occur even IF the head gasket is inbtact.
The BEST test item you can use, Is Glued to the front of your face matey
!...........With the engine "warm" but NOT hot, remove the cap and SNIFF
the Header tank, Exhaust gases give off a very different aroma to
regular anti-freeze, and its quite easy to spot the pong of an exhaust
in the header.
As to whether these engines have a habit of popping their Head Gaskets,
its not so much a case of that, as a "habit" by diesels to burn their
heads at the site of the blow (if the gasket has blown) so............
ummm Dont keep running it mate ! (this is primarilly down to the higher
temperature in the combusion chamber of a diesel causing the unprotected
(coz the gasket isn't there any more) Alloy to become heat damaged.
Have it checked if your not sure, but fer gawds sake dont continue to
run it or you can pretty much kiss the head goodbye, as by the time the
'blow' is bad enough to actually "halt" the engine you are basically
looking at a hydraulic lock happening in one of the cylinders and a
Major rebuild.
If the worst comes to pass, check with your rebuild shop if they can
skim the head to get it flat, and then use a Shim (looks like a thick
non-flexible head gasket) to recover the normal Piston X Valve gaps,
thus saving you the cost of a replacement head ;-)
I have run a Disco' with a shim in place for years and it runs fine,
they ARE available.........Check.
Finally, for the cost of a few pounds most mobile tuners can call out to
you and "pump" up the cooling system with a pressure unit and after
observing the pressure for any drop over an hour or so pretty much give
you a 100% answer as to if its blown or not.
Good Luck
Davey
Dave Bee's Auto's
pete rowland
Yep...the head was pretty warped, but not cracked, so it seems (so
far) that I got away with a head test & skim. Still, clocked up about
200 quid (and 2 days work) after adding gasket set, filters, belts and
a couple of (16 squid!) heater plugs.
Not a nice machine to work on at all.... can't say I enjoyed it one
bit, especially as the end of the crankshaft pulley bolt snapped-off
inside the crank. Mercifully only a hollow plug was left and I managed
to get it out with a stud-extractor.
I had bought this thing to replace a very tired 1985 LR 2.5 diesel
110.... but now I'm not so sure which one I'll keep !
thanks again.
Pete.
Davey <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<3D80F766...@ntlworld.com>...