Hot water problems

[Kevin Dempsey]

Hi all, I've got a 1990ish Coachman 640/2 VIP with hot water problems. The cold water runs well but the hot doesn't. Thr can is fitted with the carver ge2 and isn't filling up when the pump is running.
There's a white valve (I assume) from the cold inlet with a couple of electrical connectors on it and a screw piece on top. What is it? There's power supply from the wires which I've checked with a voltmeter. The three warning lights on the Carver control panel are working and show green in a few seconds but the heater just won't fill up for some reason.
Can anyone help?

Here's a link to a photo I've taken of it.

http://tinypic.com/?t=postupload


Many thanks.

[DavidP]

Sounds similar to a problem I had a few years ago in the old van; it
turned out that a one-way valve had given up the ghost on the inlet
supply to the hot water. pop into a dealer and I'm sure they will be
able to point you in the right direction and supply the part you need to
fit yourself.

I can't open the photo.



--
David

[bert]

In article <geOdnZwKb5t8IZPL...@brightview.co.uk>, DavidP
<nob...@nowhere.net> writes

Neither can I
--
bert

[Kevin Dempsey]

Thanks for the help guys. Here's the image again. Water isn't getting past this point at all.
Hopefully the link works.

[IMG]http://i58.tinypic.com/n6vmso.jpg[/IMG]

Mck.

[DavidP]

Is there any water at all coming through the hot water *tap* in either
kitchen or washroom?

If not try disconnecting the outlet hose from the pressure switch
(between pressure switch and water heater) and check that you have a flow
from there (into a jug or something obviously!).

If you have a flow from there to the heater I still reckon its a one-way
valve that is at fault at the point where the feed enters the heater unit.

The white screw top on the pressure switch is used to adjust the pump so
that it cuts off when the pressure is high enough and doesn't keep
working. You can fine tune this (and will need to do so periodically
AIR)so that the correct flow is maintained when a tap is turned on but
the pump is not running all the time.

I'm a bit rusty on that now but from memory when the taps have been used
and then switched off you should hear a clicking from the pressure switch
which stops when the right pressure is reached in hot and cold supplies.
Adjustment is done by turning the white head one way or the other until
its 'just right' and cuts off without running too long.



--
David

[Kevin Dempsey]

This is excellent advice David. I should have been more specific about the problem. Hence, the problem is this; "there is no water filling the carver water heating unit".
I'm new to caravanning but not 12v electrics.
There is a live feed to the pressure switch, as you say, the switch must be knacked in the OFF position hence no flow into the heater.
I'll order a new pressure unit this week and keep this thread updated with the progress.
One of the reasons that I insist on hot water is that I'm an all seasons caravan net and am at the age where I'm insisting on a warm shower first thing in the morning.

Many thanks.

Kev.

[DavidP]

On Sun, 04 Oct 2015 12:14:47 -0700, Kevin Dempsey wrote:

> I'll order a new pressure unit this week and keep this thread updated
> with the progress.
> One of the reasons that I insist on hot water is that I'm an all seasons
> caravan net and am at the age where I'm insisting on a warm shower first
> thing in the morning.
>
> Many thanks.

You're welcome - hope you get it working.
--
David

[Kevin Dempsey]

I'll have time at the weekend to sort it out and post the results.

Many thanks.

[Chris J Dixon]

I don't know the detail of your system, but in general the
arrangement is that the inlet water pipe goes first to the
pressure switch you have now identified. From there the cold
water pipe supplies, in parallel, the cold water taps and
provided the feed into the water heater. If the pump is running
and cold taps working, then the pressure switch sounds OK.

The water heater works much like a domestic immersion cylinder
system. On initial filling you open the hot tap at the sink, and
this allows air out and water in. After a while, the air is
displaced and water flows from the tap, which you then close, and
the pressure becomes sufficient to stop the pump.

If your cold water flows, but hot doesn't presumably the pressure
switch is stopping the pump as it is up to pressure.

I'm not aware of any water control valve within the heater which
could stop flow, though there is a fusible link which could dump
water if it has been overheated.

If you are convinced that the hot output is open, and no water is
flowing in, I would be tempted to pull off a pipe connector or
two just to confirm that there are no unexpected physical
blockages.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
ch...@cdixon.me.uk

Plant amazing Acers.

[Bob Douglas]

>"Kevin Dempsey" wrote in message
>news:1505cc57-2406-4f3a...@googlegroups.com...

>
>I'll have time at the weekend to sort it out and post the results.
>
>Many thanks.

I'm assuming a Carver Mk1 or Mk2 water heater.

If you have (cold) water being delivered to the taps on demand, then it is
unlikely you have a problem with either the pressure switch or the pump.

Failure to fill the Carver heater (whilst other cold-water outlets work) is
a relatively common problem caused by a sticking non-return valve on the
cold water input at the heater.

It can sometimes be resolved by poking an item into the valve, but if not,
it requires replacement of the valve (which, depending on location, may be a
bit of a pig).

Google "Carver non return valve" and lots of information is out there.

[Kevin Dempsey]

Many thanks for the replies. This is exactly the problem - no hot water while the cold worjs perfectly well. This is my first caravan with hot running water so I probably didn't leave enough time for the heater (Carver GE 2) to fill up.
I've already bought a new pressure switch on eBay this morning and I'll buy a no return valve now. The caravan was built in 1991 so I don't expect everything to run like clockwork.

Kev.

[Bob Douglas]

>"Kevin Dempsey" wrote in message

>news:4d04127a-f414-4ef1...@googlegroups.com...

Then note that the non-return valve is an integral part of the Cascade
heater, and may be difficult to source (since the units are obsolescent).

The best source for information (and possibly parts - though some can be
sourced elsewhere) may well be http://www.arcsystems.biz/

....and the link from here points to
http://community.preloved.co.uk/forums/discussion/8909

where problems with the non-return valve are referred to (no need to go
beyond the first page of discussion).

[Kevin Dempsey]

Aaaaahhhhhh! Ok, got it all now (I hope!).
This is where I fell down; "he Carver Cascade 2 is a 9 litre storage water heater, which when running on gas will heat the water to 65deg c in about 45 minutes".
Ok, so I did say that I was new to caravanning and hot running water. What I did when I first parked up was open the gas bottle valve, turn the hot tap on and expect hot water instantly as if I was in a house. I did hear a gentle noise when I opened the hot tap so I assume (from reading this thread) that it was the heater filling up.
Now does the gas light the heater only when it's full? If so then how does it know it's full?
9 litres is quite a capacity. That's 2 gallons, enough for a good hot shower after kayaking on the chilling lochs during winter which is my intention.

I really appreciate everyone's help on this matter - it's making life so much clearer.

Thanks.

Kev.

[Bob Douglas]

>"Kevin Dempsey" wrote in message

>news:aecc808c-3bf5-48cf...@googlegroups.com...

..as it's a "stored water" rather than instantaneous heater it's
conventional to pre-fill the heater by opening the hot tap until (cold)
water flows freely (i.e. without spluttering) before use. This may take a
few minutes depending on the plumbing geography.

The gas *should* light whatever the state, but it is not a good idea to try
this without filling first (the heater has some form of thermal protection
to shut an unfilled unit down - I had a recollection of rather inconvenient
fusible plugs being used, but can't find any reference to that). (note that
the lighting is achieved by setting the wall controls to the appropriate
setting)

As you are new to these, and winter is coming on - a word of warning - they
are very prone to frost damage if left off, but full of water. There is a
drain plug at the lower corner of the external cowl, this should be used to
drain the unit whilst laid up, and it is a good idea to open the hot tap and
blow through to remove as much water as possible.

[Kevin Dempsey]

Yup, I'll be using it all through winter except in snow so I'll empty it out every time the van is idle. M
Thanks.

[bert]

In article <gai41b54drs1bjh5e...@4ax.com>, Chris J Dixon
<ch...@cdixon.me.uk> writes

>Kevin Dempsey wrote:
>
>>This is excellent advice David. I should have been more specific about
>>the problem. Hence, the problem is this; "there is no water filling
>>the carver water heating unit".
>>I'm new to caravanning but not 12v electrics.
>>There is a live feed to the pressure switch, as you say, the switch
>>must be knacked in the OFF position hence no flow into the heater.
>>I'll order a new pressure unit this week and keep this thread updated
>>with the progress.
>>One of the reasons that I insist on hot water is that I'm an all
>>seasons caravan net and am at the age where I'm insisting on a warm
>>shower first thing in the morning.
>
>I don't know the detail of your system, but in general the
>arrangement is that the inlet water pipe goes first to the
>pressure switch you have now identified. From there the cold
>water pipe supplies, in parallel, the cold water taps and
>provided the feed into the water heater. If the pump is running
>and cold taps working, then the pressure switch sounds OK.
>
>The water heater works much like a domestic immersion cylinder
>system. On initial filling you open the hot tap at the sink, and
>this allows air out and water in. After a while, the air is
>displaced and water flows from the tap, which you then close, and
>the pressure becomes sufficient to stop the pump.
>

You will also need to repeat this at each hot water outlet including the
shower.
<Snip>
--
bert

[Kevin Dempsey]

Thanks Bert.
I managed to spend a while at it last night and the pressure switch is working perfectly well. I couldn't see the one-way valve due to the mass of wiring from the charging unit in the vicinity. Unfortunately for me to investigate further I'll have to remove the fridge which I suppose is no small job. No wonder the hot water wasn't working when I bought the carvan...

Kev

[Kevin Dempsey]

Here's the latest update; I spoke to a local caravan mechanic and he told me the problem would lie in the water inlet valve and I'd have to to take out the Carver unit and it won't be easy. He wasn't wrong.
I eventually replaced the valve whole the unit was half out of the van and ran the hot taps. I could hear the immersion filling up and got water from the hot taps but then it stopped. When I looked at the unit I could see why. The gasketted join between the gas half and the immersion tank had not been sealed correctly and was hence pissing water. So I emptied and dried the halves, reseated and joined them, mounted it all back in and I'll wait a few days before filling it up again.
Fingers crossed XXx

Kev.

[Kevin Dempsey]

Finally!!! I have hot water 😊 I didn't run the immersion heater until it cut out so I'll leave that for tomorrow, but after coming from a background of wild camping, hot running water and a shower is abject luxury. I'm away this weeken up north for three days so I'll find out how it's all running.

Many thanks for everyone's help. It's very much appreciated.

Kev.