How to Checking for stolen caravans
Karl Grabe
Is there a phone number in the UK for checking if a caravan is stolen?
I've seen some caravans here (in Ireland) for sale with serial numbers
starting with 91 (and so I presume the caravan was manufactured after '91)
but with now CRIS number on the windows. Is this normal?
-Karl
--
Karl Grabe, Apple Comuter Cork Ltd.
Not the views of my company etc.
Remove the _spamless_ from my email address if you want to contact me.
Tone
>Is there a phone number in the UK for checking if a caravan is stolen?
>
>I've seen some caravans here (in Ireland) for sale with serial numbers
>starting with 91 (and so I presume the caravan was manufactured after '91)
>but with now CRIS number on the windows. Is this normal?
>
I bought some small stencils and stencilled the Reg No of the van on
the roof of mr Tranny. Then mixed up some some Fibreglass resin and
painted it over the top.
Easy Peasy
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Simon Speight
It's 30-Jun-97 08:48:37, and Karl Grabe (grabe_s...@apple.com) is talking about "How to Checking for stolen caravans"...
> I've seen some caravans here (in Ireland) for sale with serial numbers
> starting with 91 (and so I presume the caravan was manufactured after '91)
> but with now CRIS number on the windows. Is this normal?
That does sound suspicious. I wasn't aware that caravans with CRIS numbers
had separate serial numbers. Of the makes I'm familiar with (Elddis and
Bailey) the serial numbers are usually derived from the CRIS number, though
I suppose this needn't necessarily be the case.
If you see any more, make a note of the CRIS numbers. Besides being
traceable through that number, it's possible to tell a lot about the
original owner of the CRIS number from the number itself.
--
==== Simon Speight ====
Christina Cazalet
In article <grabe_spamless_-...@17.65.41.52>,
grabe_s...@apple.com (Karl Grabe) wrote:
> Is there a phone number in the UK for checking if a caravan is stolen?
>
> I've seen some caravans here (in Ireland) for sale with serial numbers
> starting with 91 (and so I presume the caravan was manufactured after '91)
> but with now CRIS number on the windows. Is this normal?
>
> -Karl
>
> --
> Karl Grabe, Apple Comuter Cork Ltd.
> Not the views of my company etc.
> Remove the _spamless_ from my email address if you want to contact me.
Karl Grabe asks about the significance of CRiS numbers he has seen on post
1991 caravans in the Republic of Ireland. CRiS (it stands for Caravan
Registrations and Identification Scheme) was created by the National
Caravan Council in response to a perceived problem identifying caravans
which might have been stolen.
The problem was that caravans (and trailer tents, camping trailers and
garden trailers) aren't legally required to have a chassis plate - and
there is no Government record linking any chassis number to an owner in
the same way car registration numbers can be linked with a registered
keeper.
By the late 1980's we were seeing a serious situation develop where a few
misguided people where talking about prosecuting caravanners for having
over-weight caravans - based on the information about weights recorded on
the chassis plate. We saw something similar in 1994 when Devon County
Council's Trading Standards Office (with the help of Devon Police) were
pulling in caravans and issuing their own notice of possible prosecution
based on weights shown on the chassis plate.
What was misleading is that chassis plate weight figures had no relation
to reality. Manufacturers were building caravans which could be up to 10%
heavier (or in theory lighter) than the published weights. To make it
worse the maximum quoted allowable weights often had no relationship to
any mechanical consideration.
I remember once being in the office of the Marketing Director of a major
manufacturer when they decided to take 1 cwt of the maximum laden weight
of a particular caravan so it would appeal to potential customers driving
Sierras. Another caravan in their range had the same running gear but had
a maximum laden weight 2 cwt more.
Understandably many caravanners removed their chassis plates - which they
were legally entitled to do. Remember that a caravan doesn't have to have
a chassis plate. All this added up to a situation where the Police (and
dealers) were finding it impossible to identify caravans which might have
been stolen.
The CRiS scheme was an answer to this problem. The scheme is administered
by HPI (who also keep records of outstanding finance) and is based round a
17 character unique identifying number identical to the Vehicle
Identification Number (VIN) number given to cars.
Initially the number was only etched on the inside of the inner pane of
newly manufactured caravans.
There are three problems with the CRiS number. Firstly it is easy for
anyone to remove in minutes, and secondly many Police officers don't seem
to know what the CRiS number means or where you check the number. And
finally there is some doubt if second purchasers of a CRiS marked caravan
are bothering to notify CRiS when they buy a caravan from a private
seller.
The CRiS number is now starting to appear on caravan chassis which makes
it harder for the thief, but the second and third problems identified
above still exist.
Anyone can check a CRiS number by calling 01722 411430. You should check
that the CRiS number you quote was supplied to a caravan of the same make
and model as the one you want to buy, and that the seller is the person
registered with CRiS. I understand they charge just over £3 for the
service - so you'll need to have a credit card with you.
In addition I would suggest that if you are a member of the Caravan Club
you check CRiS and chassis number against their Theft Check register. Dial
01342 326944 and ask for the Theft Check department.
I was told by one Police officer that private individuals can check if a
particular caravan has been reported as stolen to the Police. Presumably
all stolen caravans are logged on the Police National Computer. However on
the two known occasions people have attempted to check a caravan with the
Police, they weren't very helpful. One Police Officer claimed they only
had records of caravans stolen in their area, and another said they
wouldn't help.
Does any Police Officer know what the Law is on this?
Karl Grabe is quite right to be suspicious of caravans being offered for
sale in the Republic of Ireland. Last year 3 men were convicted in Bedford
for stealing 33 touring caravans, and some of them were believed to have
ended up in the Republic.
The Caravan Club believe that £2M worth of touring caravans are stolen
every year. The RAC believe the figure is £4M. Who ever is right, it still
adds up to a major problem. Because we must start to fight back against
caravan thieves I'll repeat the advice on checking a second-hand caravan
I've given in my various articles in the caravan magazines.
When you are thinking of buying a second-hand caravan - even if it is from
a dealer - look for:
1. (Possibly) slight distortion of the inner window pane where the backing
sticker for the CRiS number has been removed.
2. (Possibly) slight parallel or vertical scratches on the inner window
pane where the etched numbers have been removed. You will probably only
see these from the inside and on a bright day.
3. No CRiS document with CRiS registered caravan, or different name and
address on the document to that of the seller.
4. No chassis plate and no good explanation of why it has been removed. If
the chassis plate was riveted to the bodywork (most are) the rivet holes
should have been well sealed against water ingression. Any owner who knows
enough to remove the plate to stay clear of any weight check should also
know enough to seal the holes.
5. Missing essential items like sink plugs, water pump and upholstery.
Many owners remove these when they park their caravans so the thief might
not have them when he comes to sell the caravan.
6. Appearance of the owner doesn't match the value of the caravan.
7. An owner who doesn't have stories to tell about where he has used the
caravan.
8. If the caravan is a late model which should have single key locking be
very suspicious if he has a bunch of keys. It is very difficult to break
through a caravan door or battery box lid without damaging the lock.
9. Be very suspicious of any seller who doesn't know his way round the
caravan, or who doesn't know how everything works. Every caravan has its
peculiarities (like a sticky wardrobe catch) and the real owner should
know about them.
10. Where a stabiliser bracket (for blade type stabilisers) is fitted to
the caravan and looks like it has been used recently, the seller should
have the rest of the stabiliser. Most of us don't leave the blade part of
the stabiliser in the caravan when we store it.
11. Only buy a privately sold caravan from the sellers house. If you
have to view the caravan in a storage compound ask the compound owner how
long that caravan has been in store. We can't prove it, but we suspect
that a lot of stolen caravans are hidden away in storage compounds before
being offered for sale.
12. When you look round the caravan keep an eye open for identification
marks. We advise owners of CRiS registered caravans to mark the CRiS
number on the raw wood interior of all furniture using a spirit based felt
tip pen. CRiS numbers may also have been engraved on metal surfaces like
the axle, hubs, underside of hob, corner steadies.
13. I would be very suspicious of any caravan which has no (car)
registration plate fitted, or a number plate made out of cardboard or a
stick-on plate over another number plate.
14. Try and get a good look down on the roof of the caravan. Some owners
are using stick on postcode letters and numbers or (my own caravan) stick
another registration plate on the roof where it can only be seen from
above.
15. If you see a DATATAG sticker get the caravan checked by the Police.
All forces should have a Datatag scanner and it is virtually impossible
for the thief to find all the hidden transponders.
16. Ask the seller why he is getting rid of the caravan. A genuine
seller should have a genuine sounding reason.
17. If you have any doubts about anything ask the seller. A genuine
seller will understand.
The only (reasonably) safe way of buying a second-hand caravan is from a
caravan dealer. That doesn't mean a car dealer who just has a few caravans
on his forecourt or a caravan dealer who is selling a caravan on behalf of
a customer (brokerage) Under British Law (I don't know about Irish Law)
if a dealer sells you a caravan which is stolen he has to give you your
money back. BUT dealers tell me that there have been so many caravans
stolen over the years it is inevitable that some of them must have found
their way back into the trade.
Message to all POLICE OFFICERS reading this piece. Please don't use the
Home Office advice about securing a caravan against theft. The copy we
have been seen is hopelessly out of date. If you want advice about
anti-theft measures, identifying stolen caravans etc please call The
Caravan Writers' Guild Technical Committee c/o 0116 2862007 during office
hours.
--
Christina Cazalet