Al-ko spare wheel holder

[Chris J Dixon]

Having dutifully renewed all three caravan tyres on grounds of
age (It was a shame to see so much unused rubber, but it just
isn't worth the risk) I had to get the spare wheel holder back in
place.

I am about as far from a muscle man as could be, and I ended up
having to use my trolley jack to lift it high enough to secure
properly.

Is there a particular knack to this task, or do I just have to
start weight training ;-)

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
ch...@cdixon.me.uk

Plant amazing Acers.

[Roger Mills]

On 10/04/2013 19:49, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> Having dutifully renewed all three caravan tyres on grounds of
> age (It was a shame to see so much unused rubber, but it just
> isn't worth the risk) I had to get the spare wheel holder back in
> place.
>
> I am about as far from a muscle man as could be, and I ended up
> having to use my trolley jack to lift it high enough to secure
> properly.
>
> Is there a particular knack to this task, or do I just have to
> start weight training ;-)
>
> Chris

You mean the sort which slide in from the side?

I had one on my 1991 Bailey caravan which I owned until last year. They
are extremely fiddly, and the sliding tubes of mine seized up on a
couple of occasions and didn't want to slide in at any price.

Assuming that it *will* slide ok, you need to be on hands and knees, and
slide it in most of the way with the outer end only just off the ground.
If you lift too early, the spare wheel fouls on the chassis - so the
whole wheel needs to be inboard of the chassis before fully lifting it.
On the other hand, if you push it in too far before lifting, the metal
bits foul and prevent lifting.

The main problem is that when you are in a suitable lifting position,
you can't actually see what you're doing, in order to get the slot in
the plate lined up with the bolt which extends out from the chassis. I
could usually do it after much cursing and swearing, but once or twice I
had to lie down for the final lift in order to see what was happening.

The only time I ever exercised it was when checking the tyre pressure
and/or removing the spare for the winter - both in the relative comfort
of my drive. I dread to think what would have happened if I had ever
needed to use it in anger in the pouring rain in a muddy field!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

[John Miller]

On 10/04/2013 19:49, Chris J Dixon wrote:

> Having dutifully renewed all three caravan tyres on grounds of
> age (It was a shame to see so much unused rubber, but it just
> isn't worth the risk) I had to get the spare wheel holder back in
> place.
>
> I am about as far from a muscle man as could be, and I ended up
> having to use my trolley jack to lift it high enough to secure
> properly.
>
> Is there a particular knack to this task, or do I just have to
> start weight training ;-)
>
> Chris
>

I had exactly the same experience when I changed my tyres - used a bit
of board as a lever to lift the carrier. If I ever have to change a
wheel in anger at the side of the road, I would simply put the wheel
inside the caravan and replace the carrier empty. They are the work of
the devil, but unfortunately there is no other suitable place to carry
the spare on my caravan.

John M

[Tim+]

I wonder why makers don't fit a moulded "spare wheel well" accessible
through a floor hatch inside the van?

Tim

[Chris J Dixon]

Tim+ wrote:

>John Miller <millerhous...@talktalk.net> wrote:

>> I had exactly the same experience when I changed my tyres - used a bit of
>> board as a lever to lift the carrier. If I ever have to change a wheel in
>> anger at the side of the road, I would simply put the wheel inside the
>> caravan and replace the carrier empty. They are the work of the devil,
>> but unfortunately there is no other suitable place to carry the spare on my caravan.
>

>I wonder why makers don't fit a moulded "spare wheel well" accessible
>through a floor hatch inside the van?
>

I believe that it has been done on some models, but I guess that
it all comes down to cost. Perhaps there is also the issue of
meeting increasingly rigorous insulation standards for the floor
structure.

[Harry Bloomfield]

Chris J Dixon was thinking very hard :

> Having dutifully renewed all three caravan tyres on grounds of
> age (It was a shame to see so much unused rubber, but it just
> isn't worth the risk) I had to get the spare wheel holder back in
> place.
>
> I am about as far from a muscle man as could be, and I ended up
> having to use my trolley jack to lift it high enough to secure
> properly.
>
> Is there a particular knack to this task, or do I just have to
> start weight training ;-)
>
> Chris

I tried to check my spare's condition and pressure on the van I bought
at Christmas. Despite is having 6 service stamps in the book, it had
obviously not been touched since Bailey originally fitted it. The only
way I could get it to slide out, was with a lot of heaving and the help
of a sledge hammer tied to it.

Once slide out I thoroughly greased the sliding tubes with copper
grease, it then worked reasonably well. I managed to lift it all back
into place with brute force, but I suppose a jack would have made it
easier. Maybe a bit of rope through the chassis might have worked too,
to take the weight with each attempt at lifting it. I would hate to
have to try it at the side of a busy road :-[

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

[Harry Bloomfield]

Tim+ was thinking very hard :

I understand Avondale did. There was a lift up floor panel inside the
caravan to access it, but I thought I read that there were issues with
that.

[harry]

On Apr 11, 7:38 am, Tim+ <timdownie2...@nospampleaseyahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

Well you could make your own. Even sell them!

[Nightjar]

Following this thread, it seems to be a remarkably complicated way to do
things. The spare wheel on my box trailer is simply held onto a large
stud with a bar that spans the central hole and is secured with a nylock
nut.

Colin Bignell

[Tim+]

And how long is your trailer? On a caravan, putting the spare wheel at
either end of the van would not be good for weight distribution. Putting it
under the floor near the axle is the best place from that point of view.
It's just not the most convenient!

Tim

[Nightjar]

About 4m

> On a caravan, putting the spare wheel at
> either end of the van would not be good for weight distribution.

Is it really that much of a factor, given that I've seen plenty of
caravans with gas bottles and batteries over the tow bar?

> Putting it
> under the floor near the axle is the best place from that point of view.
> It's just not the most convenient!

If by best, you mean it save the designer having to think too much about
the design, then possibly, but is that a good enough reason to have a
complex system that seems to be of dubious practical value?

Colin Bignell

[Tim+]

So, shorter than most caravans. Length matters when it comes to weight
distribution.

>> On a caravan, putting the spare wheel at
>> either end of the van would not be good for weight distribution.
>
> Is it really that much of a factor, given that I've seen plenty of
> caravans with gas bottles and batteries over the tow bar?

Many car caravan combos already struggle with noseweight limits imposed by
car makers. Adding more weight than necessary there isn't a good idea.

>
>> Putting it
>> under the floor near the axle is the best place from that point of
>> view. It's just not the most convenient!
>
> If by best, you mean it save the designer having to think too much
> about the design, then possibly, but is that a good enough reason to
> have a complex system that seems to be of dubious practical value?

As I said, it's best for weight distribution. I'm not defending the crap
storage solutions offered at present though. A "through the floor" access
panel would be much better.

Tim

[Nightjar]

Distributing up to a couple of tonnes of internal load within a 4m
trailer length is not something to be ignored either.

>>> On a caravan, putting the spare wheel at
>>> either end of the van would not be good for weight distribution.
>>
>> Is it really that much of a factor, given that I've seen plenty of
>> caravans with gas bottles and batteries over the tow bar?
>
> Many car caravan combos already struggle with noseweight limits imposed
> by car makers. Adding more weight than necessary there isn't a good idea.

If putting it there is a problem, then it would seem that putting it at
the back would be an advantage.

>>> Putting it
>>> under the floor near the axle is the best place from that point of
>>> view. It's just not the most convenient!
>>
>> If by best, you mean it save the designer having to think too much
>> about the design, then possibly, but is that a good enough reason to
>> have a complex system that seems to be of dubious practical value?
>
> As I said, it's best for weight distribution.

The only way I can see it being 'best' is that it does not involve a lot
of thought by the designer and it would have a neutral effect if the
spare wheel is not carried.

> I'm not defending the
> crap storage solutions offered at present though. A "through the floor"
> access panel would be much better.

That is assuming that having it under the floor is the optimal position.

Colin Bignell

[Chris J Dixon]

Nightjar wrote:

>On 11/04/2013 13:24, Tim+ wrote:

>> Many car caravan combos already struggle with noseweight limits imposed
>> by car makers. Adding more weight than necessary there isn't a good idea.
>
>If putting it there is a problem, then it would seem that putting it at
>the back would be an advantage.
>

It is not simply weight, also rotational inertia, which has an
effect on stability and susceptibility to snaking.

Ideally, heavy components should be nearer the axle.

Batteries were once in the front locker, with the gas, but
current safety rules mean they must be separate. Even the gas
bottles are no longer always at the front

Additionally, providing a sufficiently strong rear mounting for a
spare wheel would be significant - caravan bodies aren't very
beefy.

[Nightjar]

On 11/04/2013 16:53, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> Nightjar wrote:
>
>> On 11/04/2013 13:24, Tim+ wrote:
>
>>> Many car caravan combos already struggle with noseweight limits imposed
>>> by car makers. Adding more weight than necessary there isn't a good idea.
>>
>> If putting it there is a problem, then it would seem that putting it at
>> the back would be an advantage.
>>
> It is not simply weight, also rotational inertia, which has an
> effect on stability and susceptibility to snaking.
>
> Ideally, heavy components should be nearer the axle.

Thank you. That is a much more comprehensible reason than simply saying
it is 'best'.

> Batteries were once in the front locker, with the gas, but
> current safety rules mean they must be separate. Even the gas
> bottles are no longer always at the front
>
> Additionally, providing a sufficiently strong rear mounting for a
> spare wheel would be significant - caravan bodies aren't very
> beefy.

My box trailer body is only a sheet of plastic, admittedly fairly thick
plastic.

Colin Bignell

[Paul Edwards]

Harry Bloomfield formulated on Thursday :

Yes the hatch is covered in carpet and by the time the whole family
have marched over it for a season you cannot get it open with the
finger sized pull ring they fit. Managed to break mine (the ring not
finger) a couple of weeks ago by levering the thing up with a
screwdriver through the pull ring.

The spare wheel is dry and rust free in there though.

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <kk4t5a$tu$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
millerhous...@talktalk.net says...

My van has a mounting-point for the spare in the front locker. It's
fine when the caravan is stationary, but puts too much downforce on the
towing hitch.

So I put the spare wheel in the van (over the axle) when towing, & move
it back to the front locker once we've pitched.

It's a shame someone hasn't developed an under-floor carrier which also
acts as a jack for wheel changing[1].


[1] But doesn't add more than 4 Kg to the van's weight[2].
[2] And doesn't cost more than £25.

--
Sam

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <aPSdnQX-AI79bfvM...@giganews.com>,
c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk says...

My caravan has a mounting-point for the spare in the front locket - and
mountings for two gas bottles.

With only one gas bottle fitted, I cannot get an acceptable towing hitch
downforce[1] with the spare wheel in place - I have to move it inside
the van, over the axle.

[1] OK. I _could_ balance it with heavy weights at the very back of the
van, but that would be very silly.


--
Sam

[Tim+]

"Nightjar" <c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk> wrote in message news:aPSdnQX-AI79bfvM...@giganews.com...

> On 11/04/2013 16:53, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>> Nightjar wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/04/2013 13:24, Tim+ wrote:
>>
>>>> Many car caravan combos already struggle with noseweight limits imposed
>>>> by car makers. Adding more weight than necessary there isn't a good idea.
>>>
>>> If putting it there is a problem, then it would seem that putting it at
>>> the back would be an advantage.
>>>
>> It is not simply weight, also rotational inertia, which has an
>> effect on stability and susceptibility to snaking.
>>
>> Ideally, heavy components should be nearer the axle.
>
> Thank you. That is a much more comprehensible reason than simply saying
> it is 'best'.

Sorry for not making myself clear but I thought this was common knowledge.

Tim