Fridge not Cold Enough
Simon
cold enough on any of the three inputs. I can only get the temp down to
about 14 deg C despite the ice box feeling pretty cold, I put my wet
hand in and it stuck to the bottom.
I have taken the vents off and the back of the fridge is only warm not
hot. (you can hold your hand on any of the pipes no problem) The burner
section seems to be getting hot (its a litte hidden so its hard to tell
how hot). When on gas the flue gets hot.
Any idea on what could be wrong or what tests could be done. BTW It has
never worked properly in the two and half years I have had it. It went
back under second hand warranty of the van and came back with a 2 deg C
measured temp in the fridge section so they say.
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Len Blann
news:a0a6c39489550bb7b71...@mygate.mailgate.org
Have you tried taking it out and inverting it for a couple of hours this
should get rid of any airlocks in the refrigerant, you don’t usually get
problems in tourers but does happen sometimes.
Lenny
Steve Shuttleworth
Perhaps you are expecting too much from your fridge. The 3 way fridges
fitted to vans (and boats) do not work in the same way as the domestic
fridge you would buy for your kitchen.
Normal household fridges work by compressing a refrigerant gas, condensing
it into a liquid (this is done in the coils on the back of the fridge) and
then letting the pressure drop. This creates a super cool refrigerant
liquid which absorbs heat from within the fridge. The heat it absorbs boils
the refrigerant and turns it back into a gas. The gas is fed back to the
compressor and the process starts again.
This may sound like gobbledy gook but the essential point to note is that
the heat is removed from the fridge by a mechanical process. If there is
more heat to be removed, the process provides more refrigerant to remove it.
Once the temperature in the fridge has fallen, the thermostat stops the
compressor and the process is halted until the fridge starts to warm up.
A 3 way fridge works on an entirely different principle. I'm no expert on
this, but from what I can remember, it uses a mixture of ammonia and water
as the refrigerant and has no compressor. Apparently, when ammonia meets
water, some sort of phenomena occurs and a heat transfer takes place. The
opposite is also true, in that if heat is applied to the mixture, it
separates back into its 2 constituent parts. The refrigeration cycle uses a
circuit of the mixture which move around the system by convection, being
heated by the heat source which powers the fridge (either mains, 12V or a
gas pilot light in the case of a caravan fridge). At one point of the
circuit, heat is absorbed by the mixture (this is the coil inside the
fridge) and at another point, heat is added to create convection (this is
the pilot light or electrical heater input)
If too much convection heat is added, the process breaks down and if not
enough heat is added, the process simply can't keep up with the load placed
on it and the fridge warms up.
The key point is that the refrigeration circuit only runs at one speed has
no spare capacity to cool the fridge quickly on start up. Unlike your
fridge at home, the thermostat doesn't stop a compressor when the
compartment is cold, it just reduces the heat supplied to the process and
tries to slow it down a bit. If it removed the heat source completely, the
convection process would stop and so would the fridge. Re-starting the
convection process is not instant and the fridge would be ineffective.
My experience with these fridges is that it normally takes about 24 hours to
bring the compartment down to temperature (don't forget it has to remove all
the heat from the insulation of the fridge, plus the heat from the
contents). Once the fridge is down to temperature, it stays there, in fact
I normally leave the thermostat on full for the first day away and then
reduce the setting to 2 or 3 on the second day before the temp falls low
enough to freeze the wife's salad gear!
In the past, I have run our fridge for a day on gas before we have set off,
switched to car power for the journey and then on mains or gas on arrival.
It just gives the thing a head start and ensures a plentiful supply of ice
for the gin.
Incidentally, running a fridge on gas uses little more than a pilot lights
worth so no need to worry too much about huge expenditure.
I hope this is helpful and has not completely baffled you. If there is any
part you don't follow, please let me know and I'll try and explain it
better.
Stevieshutts
"Simon" <s.sli...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:a0a6c39489550bb7b71...@mygate.mailgate.org...
Aunty Sandy
"Steve Shuttleworth" <sandj.shu...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:cvSL8.42310$g63.7...@news11-gui.server.ntli.net...
> Simon
>
> Perhaps you are expecting too much from your fridge. The 3 way
fridges
> fitted to vans (and boats) do not work in the same way as the domestic
> fridge you would buy for your kitchen.
>
I turned my fridge up to 3 and forgot, leaving it on overnight only to
find my milk partially frozen in the morning! The kids thought it was
great to have chunks of milk on their cereal!
Mines not a 3 way by the way, just gas but it certainly gets cold!
--
Sandy
put the KAT out to reply!
Howard
confirms 100% that my fridge is working just as it should.
I'm new to the carvan/camping world and the past week I've been getting used
to the appliances in my camper van and the fridge did exactly as you
described. It took about a day to get down to temperature and after that
semi froze the milk !! I've left it on gas for about 4 days now as I
suspected it didn't use much and good to hear this confirmed - I can't get
it on mains power yet as not finished the new drive to get the vehicle off
the road. After setting it to minimum gas level its running nicely and even
the themomenter I put in there is reading about 5 C. I guess I could have
been lucky when I took this reading though and it probably fluctuates wildly
compared to compressor fridges as the outside temperature effects its
convection action.
There is also an explanation on Gazz's site about camping fridges
http://www.garysbeachbuggy.co.uk/Some%20electrickery.htm#fridge
Also covers it here
http://www.howstuffworks.com/refrigerator5.htm
and in great detail here
http://www.nh3tech.org/absorption.html
Stuey
news:adou1q$t5o$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Steve Shuttleworth" <sandj.shu...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:cvSL8.42310$g63.7...@news11-gui.server.ntli.net...
> > Simon
> >
> > Perhaps you are expecting too much from your fridge. The 3 way
> fridges
> > fitted to vans (and boats) do not work in the same way as the domestic
> > fridge you would buy for your kitchen.
> >
> They may not work in the same way but on my first ever outing last year,
> I turned my fridge up to 3 and forgot, leaving it on overnight only to
> find my milk partially frozen in the morning! The kids thought it was
> great to have chunks of milk on their cereal!
Yep, similar story.... last weekend was the first time we used our caravan.
Had some baked beans on Saturday evening, put the rest in a bowl in the
fridge. By Sunday morning, the baked beans were a frozen solid! Running on
gas as we didn't bother with a hook-up this time.
Thanks for the description Steve... very interesting.
Stuey :o)
T.P.
>There is also an explanation on Gazz's site about camping fridges
>http://www.garysbeachbuggy.co.uk/Some%20electrickery.htm#fridge
>Also covers it here
>http://www.howstuffworks.com/refrigerator5.htm
>and in great detail here
>http://www.nh3tech.org/absorption.html
One of the best explanations is on the Electrolux website:
http://www.electrolux.com/node882.asp
Nobody should subscribe to the nonsense that absorption fridges are in
any way less efficient at cooling than compressor fridges. The latter
have only one advantage, and that is that they consume less power than
absorption fridges.
Gazz
fridge not being cold enough :))
"Aunty Sandy" <sa...@KATalex-reynolds.co.uk> wrote in message
news:adou1q$t5o$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
Steve Shuttleworth
worse than the other. Absorption fridges don't cool down as fast as vapour
compression fridges but vapour compression fridges wont run on a pilot
light. It's horses for courses really.
Stevieshutts
"T.P." <t...@No-mail.com> wrote in message
news:vdd1gu4pgp2qvvqqi...@4ax.com...
Michael Leete
Hello, my name is Michael and I work for Dometic. We manufacture and sell
Electrolux Caravan Products.
I have published a lot of stuff on fridge fault finding on the NG over the
years.
You can find the posts by going to www.google.com
Then into "Groups" and search for "Electrolux Michael Leete"
I have made a simple summary of the main fault finding route on the web at
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MLeete/carafri.htm
If you follow this stuff through you should be able to establish if the
fridge is fixable or not. If you get stuck come back and I will see if I can
help any more. To do so it is helpfull to know the model (RM XXXX - you can
find this on the data plate) and the manufacturer and age of the caravan or
motorhome.
Michael
I
"Simon" <s.sli...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:a0a6c39489550bb7b71...@mygate.mailgate.org...
Simon Slingsby
> I have a problem with my Electrolux three way fridge it does not get
The problem seems to be cured. As far as I can make out it was the ice
box door not closing properly, the spring has come off. Why this would
prevent the fridge from cooling down is beyond me. I would have thought
this would have tried to turn the whole fridge into a ice box
consequently cooling it down. Anyway I'm off to put the fridge back and
try on gas.
Aunty Sandy
"Gazz" <N@_spam_ta_ill_read_replies_on.here> wrote in message
news:adratk$e7u$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
> I bet they wouldn't be so enthusiastic if the lumps were caused by the
> fridge not being cold enough :))
>
me a cup of tea with lumps in it before!
Sandy
bowtiejim
temperatures - above 27 degrees. On five vans I have fitted a small radial
fan (From Maplin Electronics)just behind the top external grill plate
controlled by a manual switch. The additional draught seems to get over the
problem.
Jimmy
"Gazz" <N@_spam_ta_ill_read_replies_on.here> wrote in message
news:adratk$e7u$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
Michael Leete
Check out the posts I have made over on Google Groups regarding sealing the
fridge (hot work-top sydrome). and the notes at
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MLeete/carafri.htm
9 times out of 10 this will sort your problem.
Michael
"bowtiejim" <j...@bowtiejim.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ae19q1$79b$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
chris@net
<URL:mailto:j...@bowtiejim.co.uk> wrote:
> I have never had a van fridge which worked well in high ambient
> temperatures - above 27 degrees. On five vans I have fitted a small radial
> fan (From Maplin Electronics)just behind the top external grill plate
> controlled by a manual switch. The additional draught seems to get over the
> problem.
>
Best wishes, Chris.
The Virtual Caravan Site:- http://freespace.virgin.net/c.n.l.f/
Latest update: 'Return to Slovakia': 6/12/2001
RISC OS/Strongarm/ANT
T.P.
>I have never had a van fridge which worked well in high ambient
>temperatures - above 27 degrees. On five vans I have fitted a small radial
>fan (From Maplin Electronics)just behind the top external grill plate
>controlled by a manual switch. The additional draught seems to get over the
>problem.
Back in 1978 I drove my 1972 LHD VW 'Bay Window' camper van from Doha,
Qatar to the UK via Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Syria
(again) and Turkey. My trip started in mid-May and I was still in
Turkey in late June.
Daily maximum ambient temperatures exceeded 30 Celsius for the trip as
far as Belgrade almost every single day. In Saudi Arabia, travelling
the road alongside the Trans-Arabia Pipeline (TAPline) the daily
maximum ambient was never less than 40 Celsius and rose as high as 43
Celsius on one day, which it held for over three hours.
The van had no air conditioning and the only concessions to the
tropical conditions were a roof painted white and a small roof vent.
The interior temperatures would have far exceeded the ambient.
Yet my trusty Electrolux 12V DC/gas fridge coped extremely well,
running on 12V when travelling and gas when stopped for more than a
quarter of an hour. I even had an adequate supply of ice cubes
throughout the trip for my daily gin and tonic before the evening
meal. <g>
The key to this efficiency, which I found amazing, was that I myself
made the vents for the 'fridge, using 20mm x 20mm anodised aluminium
angle for the frames and 3mm zinc mesh for the grilles. These gave a
good flow of air.
I fitted vents with a 5" x 3" aperture (IIRC) a few weeks before the
start of my trip, and tested the fridge during the day at work (in
Qatar). The fridge only just coped in Spring (daily maximum ambient
of 30 Celsius in April) so I enlarged, or rather re-made the vents to
7" x 4", and that worked much better.
The zinc mesh gave a very free flow of air whilst keeping out the
spiders, scorpions and cockroaches that plague this region. I think
that the mesh was probably the most important feature enabling the
'fridge to work as well as it did. The modern Electrolux/Dometic
grilles (in plastic) are huge and monstrously ugly, yet I would wager
that they are far less effective than my simple, low-tech solution,
hence the need for your fan.
I sold the van in 1979, to an Australian who "did Europe" in five days
over a Bank Holiday weekend. He then sold it on to a New Zealander.
Soon after, I started to miss it, and wanted it back. It proved
impossible to trace. I would be curious to find out if it survived.
It was originally painted blue, and was the works minibus for the
Frankfurt (M) Glue Factory. This had been sign written on the van
sides and was only partly hidden by a re-spray. I purchased the van
from a Palestinian who had been working in Germany and who bought it
and used it to make the Hajj, the pilgrimage to Mecca that every
Muslim should make at least once on their lives.
The TuV certificates showed the van had covered over 440,000 km while
still in Germany and by the time I sold it, it was approaching the
fifth passing of 99,999.9km on the odometer. By then it was painted
blue with a white roof and upper sides.
I had rebuilt the engine from a 1600cc twin port to a 1500cc single
port using the original 1600cc crankcase and fitted the usual Bosch
"Blue" coil. Oil was Castrol 30 monograde and it ran well on the
local 91 octane fuel at the equivalent of 14 pence a gallon.
Inside, it had a three-quarter width rock and roll bed and dark "wood"
sink/fridge unit and a tall wardrobe. I used a Camping Gaz portable
cooker and light, and the van had only the one 54AH battery, but
carried no less than four spare wheels with brand new Michelin ZX 185
R14 radials for the very bad roads ...
After a few months in England on Qatar number plates ("011.." in
Arabic, or "51100" in our number system) I registered it with the
DVLC. I paid about £70 import duty and VAT and obtained a
then-current registration number AJH 276T (Slough and Reading area),
making the van look six or seven years newer than it was.
If anyone knows the whereabouts of this camper van (assuming it is not
all ferrous oxide by now) I would be very keen to see it again.
Tony
(cross posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans)
Bruce and Nikki
fridge, the more efficiently it will run i.e. gets colder. I have a little
freezer box in mine which I keep ice packs in. Ours is a three way, but we
also have the connecter on the towbar to run the fridge on 12v whilst
driving. I have tested this theory out by the way and load mine up the
night before with as much as possible, even if it's some tins and bottles of
ketchup. Don't forget to put the pin in the door though. I had e big mess
one year when we arrived on site when I had forgotten to do so!
Nikki
chris@net
<URL:mailto:c.n...@virgin.net> wrote:
> It's the door opening which exchanges the cold air for warm instantly.
Your food - being more dense - doesn't warm-up as fast. Putting a pile of
old newspapers in a freezer now too big (since the kids have left home)
reduces it's electricity consumption for the same reason.
Best wishes, Chris.
The Virtual Caravan Site:- http://freespace.virgin.net/c.n.l.f/
Latest update:- 6/12/2001 - RISC OS/Strongarm/ANT
HN
>
>Nobody should subscribe to the nonsense that absorption fridges are in
>any way less efficient at cooling than compressor fridges. The latter
>have only one advantage, and that is that they consume less power than
>absorption fridges.
Errmmm...isn't that the definition of efficiency?
Neil
T.P.
It might be *your* definition, or a scientifically precise definition
of efficiency, but the differences in power consumption between
absorption compressor 'fridges of the small sizes fitted to caravans
must be tiny, as must the cost of providing that power.
*My* definition of efficiency is a caravan fridge that gets the beer
cold, keeps the beer cold and doesn't wake me up at night, in a wide
range of ambient temperatures. Whether it uses 10 Watts or 70 Watts
of power just isn't relevant.
The Electrolux (Dometic) absorption 'fridges fit the bill, perfectly,
and frankly that is all that matters.
HN
It's not MY definition, it's THE definition, but if you meant
EFFECTIVE, then I WILL grant you that absorption fridges work, have no
moving parts, are inherently reliable and are silent.
But they ARE very inefficient.
In direct comparison between a small absorption fridge and a small
12/24v compressor fridge(I now have and use both), has shown me that
the absorption fridge consumes a fixed 125w at 12v, whereas the
compressor fridge requires only 30-40w depending on ambient
temperature. That is NOT a "tiny" difference.
The absorption fridge takes a few hours to reach 5C whereas the
compressor fridge(well mine at any rate) takes only a matter of
minutes.
The degree(excuse pun) of control available over the internal
temperature of the compressor fridge is MUCH better due to the speed
at which cooling takes place.
Most, if not all overland vehicle based expeditions now rely on
compressor fridges. Check any expedition vehicle prep company if you
don't believe me!
Your original statement is flawed.
"Nobody should subscribe to the nonsense that absorption fridges are
in any way less efficient at cooling than compressor fridges. The
latter have only one advantage, and that is that they consume less
power than absorption fridges."
In fact absorption fridges really only have one advantage, and that is
that it is a simple matter to buy the energy required to run them
directly; the gas!
When I was a wee sprog, my parents had an Electrolux absorption fridge
in the kitchen - complete with the dark streak up the wall above the
flue ;o)
Neil
Paul Cohen
har...@btinternet.com (HN) uttered these words:
> In fact absorption fridges really only have one advantage, and that is
> that it is a simple matter to buy the energy required to run them
> directly; the gas!
And the silence.
Paul. (Remove nojunk to email.)
Mos Zibby
>I can't rememebr where I read this bit of information, but the fuller the
>fridge, the more efficiently it will run i.e. gets colder. I have a little
>freezer box in mine which I keep ice packs in. Ours is a three way, but we
>also have the connecter on the towbar to run the fridge on 12v whilst
>driving. I have tested this theory out by the way and load mine up the
>night before with as much as possible, even if it's some tins and bottles of
>ketchup. Don't forget to put the pin in the door though. I had a big mess
>one year when we arrived on site when I had forgotten to do so!
>Nikki
Please be careful when bulking your fridge up. I know that this may
seem a bit OTT and anal. One bout of 'real' food poisioning would, I
am sure, change your mind about this. The Elecrolux site has the
following sage advice about using your fridge and freezer safely at
http://www.electrolux.co.uk/node662.asp , it says:
THE DO’S AND DON’TS OF FRIDGE STORAGE
The golden rule is not to overstock your fridge. Air needs to
circulate freely around food in order that it can cool it effectively.
Do not store raw meat and dairy products together or raw and cooked
meats as this could result in the cross contamination of food – the
transfer of micro-organisms. These foods must be kept covered and kept
in separate containers.
Store raw meat on the bottom shelf to stop the juices of raw meat
dripping onto other food.
Keep vegetables in the salad drawers as this has been especially
designed for them and they protect items from damage as they are in a
rigid container.
Store dairy products on the top shelf, cooked meats on the middle
shelf and raw meat on the bottom shelf. Convenience foods can be
stored either on the top or middle shelves. This is because the
temperature in the fridge varies from top to bottom and some food
items need cooler temperatures than others. It is also less cool in
the door, so it is best to put things like jams and beers in the door.
FOOD TIPS FOR FRIDGES
Perishables like dairy products, meat and vegetables can all be kept
in the fridge. However, there are some exceptions.
Certain vegetables and fruit can suffer from chilling injury leading
to changes in their appearance, flavour and texture if kept at too low
temperatures. For example apples shouldn’t be less than 2-3°C, bananas
less than 12-13°C and lemons less than 14°C, whereas melons,
pineapples and tomatoes shouldn’t be kept at less than 7-10°C.
Jams and sauces once opened should be kept in the fridge. Less
preservatives are being used today which means they do not last as
long. If mould is found on jams or cheeses such as cheddar (not blue
cheeses), throw them away. Do not just scrape off the mould as
aflatoxins (natural forming toxic chemicals) can spread throughout
without being apparent to the naked eye.
Do not keep bread in the fridge. While bread might appear to last
longer in a fridge because it doesn’t go mouldy, in effect it is going
off just as fast. The only difference is that when it does go off it
does not display the normal warning signs such as going stale or
mouldy.
Don’t keep melon in the fridge for long as it loses its flavour. Chill
for a maximum of one hour before serving.
Store eggs with the pointed end down. This keeps the yolk in position
so it doesn’t break when the egg is cracked.
GETTING YOUR FREEZER STORAGE RIGHT
It is key to remove air from packaging when freezing food, as oxygen
destroys the vitamin content and natural colouring of food, as well as
being responsible for fat going rancid. So squeeze out any air and
seal the bag if you are freezing food. Wrapping food in tin foil or
using freezer bags, which provide an air tight seal, is best for
insulating food in the freezer.
Water acts as an effective form of protection for fish. You can either
freeze the fish in a container of water or freeze the fish first and
then dip it in water and continue to freeze it. Again this provides
insulation from air.
Beware of swollen packaging or water droplets on the outside of
packages as these could be evidence that food has been stored at too
high a temperature. Packages looking like this should be discarded as
this is in effect partial thaw.
Do not put fresh food in a freezer next to frozen food as it could
raise the temperature of the food that is already frozen. If possible,
rearrange the contents so that fresh food is in a separate drawer. Use
the Fast Freeze compartment if your freezer has one or the bottom
drawer if it does not as this will be the coldest place.
Understand your stars. Both freezers and frozen food carry star
ratings. It is important to understand what these mean.
FOOD TIPS FOR FREEZERS
Freezing food enables you to conserve food without losing the vitamins
and nutrients. In fact, pre frozen food can be fresher than fresh food
as it is preserved at an earlier stage in its life.
Some foods need to be prepared before being frozen for best results:
Meat and fish can be frozen raw and without preparation, as can herbs,
cheese and butter.
Vegetables need to be blanched first to ensure they retain their
texture and flavour.
Fruit with stones and berries can be frozen raw, while apples and
pears should be blanched first.
Freeze fresh herbs in ice cubes in the summer to use in the winter in
stews or casseroles.
Fast freeze fruit and vegetables to maintain their shape and texture
when they are defrosted.
Cook tomatoes if they lose their firmness then store in the freezer to
use at a later date in casseroles or soups.
THAWING FACTS…
Never refreeze thawed food. Thawed food can go off more quickly than
fresh food as the micro-organisms are breeding more rapidly. For that
reason cook it and consume it within 24 hours. Some foods can be
refrozen after cooking.
Defrosting food is best done slowly as it allows the food to reabsorb
the water that has been dried out of it during the freezing process.
The ideal way to defrost is in the fridge as it is a slow form of
defrosting and thereby preserves the texture of the food. It is also
better for energy efficiency as the cold air aids the refrigeration
process.
The microwave is the fastest method of defrosting though food should
be cooked immediately as the food can start to cook.
You can defrost in some fan ovens that offer a defrost function. This
is an option for the fan to work with no heat and is particularly good
for cream gateaux.
Defrosting in cold water is two to three times faster than in air and
in running water is even faster again. However, don’t defrost in hot
water as taste, nutrition and looks can be lost. If in a hurry use
lukewarm water.
On no account should the defrost liquid (melted ice) be used, as this
can harbour salmonella.
TEMPERATURE CHECK
National research by Electrolux revealed that two thirds of the
population do not know the correct temperature for their fridge or
freezer and a third that it varies from the top to the bottom of the
fridge.
Fridges should be set at between 0 to 5°C and freezers at -18°C or
below.
Temperatures in fridges can vary as much as 6°C from the top to the
bottom, with the fridges being cooler at the bottom than the top
(unless a freezer compartment is located at the top of the fridge).
Both low and high temperatures can damage food and too low
temperatures can be a waste of energy and money.
Temperatures can vary between day and night as you tend to open the
fridge more in the day which raises the temperature inside. It can
take up to half an hour for a fridge to regain its correct
temperature, so do not leave the door open while you unpack all the
rest of your groceries.
HOW TO USE A FRIDGE/FREEZER THERMOMETER PROPERLY
If using in the fridge, put it in a glass of cold water and leave for
a few hours at least, as measuring the temperature of the water rather
than the air temperature gives you a better idea of what the food
temperature is likely to be. Similarly, with a freezer, embed the
thermometer in something like a bag of peas.
LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION…
Fridges and fridge freezers should ideally be located away from
extreme temperatures in order that they can work efficiently.
Don’t locate a fridge freezer in a garage. If the ambient temperature
is lower than the fridge is set at, it thinks it doesn’t have to do
any work. If it doesn’t have a separate freezer thermostat it will
mean the freezer also stops working.
Don’t locate a fridge next to a heat source such as a radiator, cooker
or in direct sunlight as it will have to over compensate, using more
energy.
Regards
Mos Zibby
--
Kopyright (k) 3163 Gold & Apple Transfers, Inc.
All rites reversed. Reprint what you like.