5th wheel trailers legal in the UK?
rob w
Does anyone know if American 5th wheel campers are legal in the UK and
if so is there restrictions on the lenght / width , weight etc.
Cheers
Rob
Andy R
"rob w" <robw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e63bb3bf.04060...@posting.google.com...
> Hi
> Does anyone know if American 5th wheel campers are legal in the UK and
> if so is there restrictions on the lenght / width , weight etc.
Yep, they're legal. A good place to start looking for restrictions is
http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/law/dimensions.htm. Depending on when you passed
your car test, the size of the trailer and/or the vehicle weights involved
you may need a different licence to drive one.
Rgds
Andy R
Philip Stokes
<and...@ukhome.net> writes
Any articulated vehicle of any size or weight requires a category C+E
licence (equivalent to the old HGV Class 1) to drive it.
Phil
Terry
"Philip Stokes" <ne...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:hSDueqNA...@stokes.nildram.co.uk...
OK. But for a visiting tourist driver 'passing through' using their own
national licence, would that apply? In other words; let's say you are a
Canadian or US service person, licensed to drive a 5th wheeler from say, for
example, Turkey or Spain or Egypt? What would you have to do to qualify?
e.g. We (Canada) or the US at the border while they check identities, even
more so now, don't check the driver's licence of recreational
camper/caravan/boat towing/5th wheel vehicle drivers. And 5th wheelers
trailers (caravans) are extremely common; as are personal motorhomes the
size of tour coaches towing another full size car behind them either on a
'dolly' or on it's own road wheels! Recreational vehicles (RVs) range from
Alaska, Newfoundland-Labrador to many parts of S.America including (after a
short boat ride) Chile and to the bottom of S.America!
It would take forever surely if every articulated recreational vehicle
driver arriving at say Folkestone/Dover had to take a test to qualify for
another licence. And at 04.00h say in the morning how would it be arranged?
When I visited UK in 2000 I wondered if I'd have to get an EU or
International licence to drive an ordinary non towing, non articulated
vehicle, on the left side of the road.
But no. My regular licence issued by a province of Canada was OK.
AFIK if I have my regular driving licence and motor vehicle and attachments
registered/licensed in my province or state I can venture anywhere in North
or South America, as a visitor, that roads take me.
If I become resident, anywhere, after certain conditions are met that's
another matter.
But local authorities are pretty reasonable, don't want to affect tourism
you know! And also not in position to know how long someone has visited
unless vehicle is stopped for some reason. There again many local
authorities are pretty reasonable about visitors 'not knowing' minor local
road rules and many a 'visitor' will wait until something or themselves have
reached the annual licence renewal date, to introduce them selves to local
motor registration.
Big Daddy Governments in North America seems to be pretty reasonably in this
regard.
It's the truckers (lorry drivers) hauling 100,000 pounds and more with extra
trailers, they give a hard time. Strange, because they are professionals
earning their living and depending for their lives on driving safely, heavy
articulateds every day from northern Canada to Mexico, Panama and further.
Puzzling?
Christian McArdle
> licence (equivalent to the old HGV Class 1) to drive it.
http://www.dvla.gov.uk/drivers/special_licensing_arrangements_f.htm
Exempted Goods Vehicles
Holders of a full category B (car) driving licence may drive any of the
large vehicles listed below:
(m) articulated goods vehicles not exceeding 3.05 tonnes unladen weight;
Christian.
Philip Stokes
Jun 2004, Terry <tsan...@nf.sympatico.ca> writes
>
>"Philip Stokes" <ne...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>news:hSDueqNA...@stokes.nildram.co.uk...
>>
>> licence (equivalent to the old HGV Class 1) to drive it.
>
>national licence, would that apply? In other words; let's say you are a
>Canadian or US service person, licensed to drive a 5th wheeler from say, for
>example, Turkey or Spain or Egypt? What would you have to do to qualify?
Http://www.dvla.gov.uk/drivers/drvingb.htm
(Easier to give you the link, than to explain, since it varies according
to where you are from, how long you are here, and depending on the type
of vehicle, whether or not you bought it with you from outside the UK.)
Phil
Terry
"Christian McArdle" <cmcar...@nospam.yahooxxxx.co.uk> wrote in message
news:40c5e000$0$25329$ed9e...@reading.news.pipex.net...
"Goods" vehicle. In other words I could rent a 'U haul' large moving
van/truck and move my household effects from say, Leeds to Brighton?
BTW I recall the word 'pantechnion'; correct? Terry.
Andy_R
"Philip Stokes" <ne...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:hSDueqNA...@stokes.nildram.co.uk...
Where on earth did you get that idea? Pls provide an authoratitive source.
Rgds
Andy R
Alex Heney
wrote:
That is simply not true.
So far as driving licences are concerned, articulated is treated as
towing a trailer.
And a B licence is sufficient provided the total MAM of towing vehicle
+ trailer is no more than 3500Kg. A B+E entitlement is sufficient if
that limit is not met, but the towing vehicle has a MAM of no more
than 3500Kg.
A C1+E entitlement is only necessary if the towing vehicle has a MAM
of > 3500Kg.
See <http://www.dvla.gov.uk/drivers/vehicle_cat_desc.htm> for details.
Or here for the fully authoritative version:
<http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1999/19992864.htm#sch2>
Christian McArdle
I would think that goods vehicle refers to anything over 3500kg MAM that
isn't a bus or some other special category, and plenty of vehicles below
3500kg, too. I might be very wrong. Any articulated vehicle 3050kg unladen
will be well over 3500kg MAM. Probably around the 5000-7500kg region.
> In other words I could rent a 'U haul' large moving van/truck and
> move my household effects from say, Leeds to Brighton?
I would think so. I have rented a rigid 7.5 tonner to move house before,
although that is on a C1 licence, not a B.
Christian.
Geoff Lane
> Any articulated vehicle of any size or weight requires a category C+E
> licence (equivalent to the old HGV Class 1) to drive it.
Not so. For example, a car and caravan combination is an articulated
vehicle. The bit behind the point of articulation is treated as a
trailer.
Depending on when you passed your test and the dimensions, you may be
able to drive a 5th wheeler in this country. However, there are
transpondian braking and lighting requirements differences that mean most
left-pondian 5th wheelers need modifying for use in this country.
Take care with the weights, lengths, and widths. Most 5th wheelers are
too heavy and/or too long to tow legally behind UK pick-ups. However,
some ranges (like Forest River's Rockwood Superlite seven and a half
footers) are reasonable (around 4,000lb dry; 5200lb GVW), but the
majority (like Forest River's Cardinal series) are over 30' long with dry
weight and GVW at least twice that of the superlites. There are two
common widths of US 5th wheelers (as with travel trailers): 7' 6" and
8' 0". The narrower width is legal in this country behind a normal pick-
up; the latter are too wide. Unfortunately, 8' 0" is the more common
width. FWIW, I've found very few 5th wheelers within the UK legal limit
(most start at about 24' -- and even the smallest Rockwood is 22' 4"
long!)
Anything over 22' 9" (7 metres) long or 7' 6" (2.3 metres) wide or
heavier than the tug manufacturer's recommended limit can't be legally
towed behind a normal pick-up. This means that most US 5th wheelers will
need a 7.5 tonner and you'll need C1E, C1+E, or C+E to drive it. If
you're using "grandfather's rights" from a pre-1997 license, don't forget
that C1E only gives you entitlement to 8.25 tonnes, not the 12 tonnes
you'd have from C1+E -- and that's the MAM not the actual mass on the
road. Given that the lowest MAM for the tug must exceed 3.5 tonnes, that
means you probably won't be able to tow a 5th wheeler with MGW more than
about 4 tonnes (or about 8800 lb) on "grandfather's rights", which would
still exclude most 5th wheelers.
HTH,
--
Geoff Lane
Cornwall, UK
Andy R
"Geoff Lane" <ge...@nospam.gjctech.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns950374EED22...@212.159.13.1...
Not a bad thing really. I'd rather not see somebody with no large vehicle
experience trying to navigate an artic around the streets and campsites of
Britain. Most reasonably competent drivers should be able to get through a
cat C test with about 12 hours training plus another 12 hours for the C&E
licence. Although this'll cost about £1000 it's only a small percentage of
what the trailer will cost and it'll get their driving up to a reasonable
standard.
I wonder how many normal caravans would never move again if their owners had
to pass a B+E test before they could tow them on the roads.
Rgds
Andy R
Christian McArdle
> vehicle. The bit behind the point of articulation is treated as a
> trailer.
Not so. An articulated vehicle must have 20% of the trailer load borne by
the tractor unit (i.e. 5th wheel coupling). An articulated bus must be able
to walk from one half to the other and require workshop tools to separate.
A car/caravan is not an articulated vehicle. It is a rigid vehicle towing a
trailer.
The difference, however, is academic. Both articulated and rigid/trailer
combinations require the "+E" version of the licence for the towing vehicle.
Christian.
SI 1998 No. 3111 ROAD TRAFFIC
The Road Vehicles (Authorised Weight) Regulations 1998
"articulated bus or coach" means a single vehicle which is a bus or coach
consisting of 2 or more rigid sections which-
(a) articulate relative to one another;
(b) are intercommunicating so that passengers can move freely between them;
and
(c) are permanently connected so that they can only be separated by an
operation using facilities normally found only in a workshop;
"articulated vehicle" means a tractor unit to which a semi-trailer is
attached;
"tractor unit" means a motor vehicle by which a trailer partially
superimposed on it may be drawn so that, when the trailer is fully loaded,
not less than 20 per cent of its load is borne by the drawing vehicle;
Terry
"> Http://www.dvla.gov.uk/drivers/drvingb.htm
>
> (Easier to give you the link, than to explain, since it varies according
> to where you are from, how long you are here, and depending on the type
> of vehicle, whether or not you bought it with you from outside the UK.)
Terry says thank you and I've bookmarked it.
Interestingly it says "Exchanging a Canadian Licence for a UK one will only
be for automatic transmissions"! A comment on the penchant here for auto
transmissions.
Here in Canada during the last 48 years I've only had one automatic
transmission vehicle! That was a 1976 Chevrolet V8; a company provided
vehicle.
Again, oddly, it was the only one we towed a caravan with! Since then it's
been 5 speed manuals.
Strangely the towing capacity of the automatic version of one of our present
5spd. Nissan V6 pickups is significantly greater than the manual version.
Something to do with how well one uses the clutch versus the ability of the
automatic transmission I s'pose?
Thank you Phil that reference makes interesting reading.
Philip Stokes
<and...@ukhome.net> writes
>
>Where on earth did you get that idea? Pls provide an authoratitive source.
I'm sure it was the case for a while prior to the introduction of the
"new" licence categories, after the Class 4 HGV licence was scrapped.
I thought it was still the case, but I admit I was wrong.
Phil
Philip Stokes
2004, Geoff Lane <ge...@nospam.gjctech.co.uk> writes
>Philip Stokes <ne...@nospam.invalid> wrote in
>news:hSDueqNA...@stokes.nildram.co.uk:
>
>> Any articulated vehicle of any size or weight requires a category C+E
>> licence (equivalent to the old HGV Class 1) to drive it.
>
>Not so. For example, a car and caravan combination is an articulated
>vehicle. The bit behind the point of articulation is treated as a
>trailer.
I was wrong about the licence, but you are wrong about the car and
caravan combination. It is a straightforward rigid vehicle towing a
trailer.
An articulated vehicle must have at least 20 per cent of the weight of
the trailer superimposed on the towing vehicle when evenly loaded.
Phil
Peter Milnes
legal in UK but very costly (approx £25,000 to £30,000).
Cheers, Peter.
"rob w" <robw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e63bb3bf.04060...@posting.google.com...
: Hi
Geoff Lane
news:caa32n$lv7$1...@titan.btinternet.com:
> There is an English firm making them for the European market and these
> ones are legal in UK but very costly (approx œ25,000 to œ30,000).
Would that be the Welsh company, Mervyn Parry-Jones' "Fifth Wheel Company"
(website http://www.fifthwheelco.co.uk/)?
rob w
Thanks for all the replys, I have a pickup with more than enough
towing capacity for a 5th wheel its just the sizes so i will have a
look at 71/2 feet wide ones.
On the same note would the length be measured from the hitch or from
the start of the van, as a caravan does not count lenght of the
drawbar, surely the overhang over the pick up bed will not count in
the 7 m lenth. Any thoughts?
Rob
ROBIN DUMPLETON
Supply all mounts for fifth wheel and much more
Robin
"rob w" <robw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e63bb3bf.04061...@posting.google.com...
