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Seagull behaviour
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Darkside
Apr 15, 2013, 12:08:28 PM4/15/13
to
While the proper birders were trying to persuade themselves that one of
a pair of terns might be an arctic tern, I watched one of several
juvenile herring gulls picking up stones from the fake shingle bank,
carrying them about ten metres into the air then dropping them and
swooping to catch them before they hit the water.
I've seen many gulls of different species hassling a bird until it drops
its lunch then competing to snatch the food, but I've never seen one
practising for it before. Is this normal?
PS spring has sprung, swallows and sandmartins are in and chiffchaffs
still haven't learnt the words: "Chiff chaff chiff chaff chiff chiff
chiff how does it go again?"
--
Sue ]:(:)
a pair of terns might be an arctic tern, I watched one of several
juvenile herring gulls picking up stones from the fake shingle bank,
carrying them about ten metres into the air then dropping them and
swooping to catch them before they hit the water.
I've seen many gulls of different species hassling a bird until it drops
its lunch then competing to snatch the food, but I've never seen one
practising for it before. Is this normal?
PS spring has sprung, swallows and sandmartins are in and chiffchaffs
still haven't learnt the words: "Chiff chaff chiff chaff chiff chiff
chiff how does it go again?"
--
Sue ]:(:)
Message has been deleted
Darkside
Apr 15, 2013, 5:33:29 PM4/15/13
to
In article <25h8LqzX...@indaal.demon.co.uk>, Malcolm
<Mal...@indaal.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>In article <CBPPtiB8...@mashtub.demon.co.uk>, Darkside
><s...@blackhole.invalid> writes
>height in order to break them open. If they were doing it with stones,
>then this is practice by juveniles learning how to do it. Mind you, some
>gulls here regularly drop shells on sand, which suggests it's a bit hit
>and miss at the best of times.
>
Yes, it does! Interesting suggestion.
Hmmm... the gull was dropping the stones over water, not over the
barely-submerged shingle bank where they'd have hit another bird. And
it did seem to be trying to catch them in mid-air, as it succeeded about
half the time. When it failed it returned to the bank and dabbled like
a duck to get another one.
I wonder how much of its skill set is innate to a gull and how much is
learned from other birds? Is there any evidence of gulls learning from
other species?
No wonder the bank has to be topped up with fresh gravel from time to
time!
--
Sue ]:(:)
<Mal...@indaal.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>In article <CBPPtiB8...@mashtub.demon.co.uk>, Darkside
><s...@blackhole.invalid> writes
>>While the proper birders were trying to persuade themselves that one of
>>a pair of terns might be an arctic tern, I watched one of several
>>juvenile herring gulls picking up stones from the fake shingle bank,
>>carrying them about ten metres into the air then dropping them and
>>swooping to catch them before they hit the water.
>>I've seen many gulls of different species hassling a bird until it drops
>>its lunch then competing to snatch the food, but I've never seen one
>>practising for it before. Is this normal?
>
>Gulls regularly pick up cockle and other shells and drop them from a
>>a pair of terns might be an arctic tern, I watched one of several
>>juvenile herring gulls picking up stones from the fake shingle bank,
>>carrying them about ten metres into the air then dropping them and
>>swooping to catch them before they hit the water.
>>I've seen many gulls of different species hassling a bird until it drops
>>its lunch then competing to snatch the food, but I've never seen one
>>practising for it before. Is this normal?
>
>height in order to break them open. If they were doing it with stones,
>then this is practice by juveniles learning how to do it. Mind you, some
>gulls here regularly drop shells on sand, which suggests it's a bit hit
>and miss at the best of times.
>
Yes, it does! Interesting suggestion.
Hmmm... the gull was dropping the stones over water, not over the
barely-submerged shingle bank where they'd have hit another bird. And
it did seem to be trying to catch them in mid-air, as it succeeded about
half the time. When it failed it returned to the bank and dabbled like
a duck to get another one.
I wonder how much of its skill set is innate to a gull and how much is
learned from other birds? Is there any evidence of gulls learning from
other species?
No wonder the bank has to be topped up with fresh gravel from time to
time!
--
Sue ]:(:)
Mike
Apr 15, 2013, 5:50:40 PM4/15/13
to
"Darkside" wrote in message news:eUKY4vBp...@mashtub.demon.co.uk...
Perhaps it had read the antics of Jonathan Livingstone Seagull
Mike
Mike Coon
Apr 15, 2013, 6:44:54 PM4/15/13
to
Darkside wrote:
> Hmmm... the gull was dropping the stones over water, not over the
> barely-submerged shingle bank where they'd have hit another bird. And
> it did seem to be trying to catch them in mid-air, as it succeeded
> about half the time. When it failed it returned to the bank and
> dabbled like a duck to get another one.
> I wonder how much of its skill set is innate to a gull and how much is
> learned from other birds? Is there any evidence of gulls learning
> from other species?
>
> No wonder the bank has to be topped up with fresh gravel from time to
> time!
My only nearly-relevant observation is of seeing a frigate bird picking up a
> Hmmm... the gull was dropping the stones over water, not over the
> barely-submerged shingle bank where they'd have hit another bird. And
> it did seem to be trying to catch them in mid-air, as it succeeded
> about half the time. When it failed it returned to the bank and
> dabbled like a duck to get another one.
> I wonder how much of its skill set is innate to a gull and how much is
> learned from other birds? Is there any evidence of gulls learning
> from other species?
>
> No wonder the bank has to be topped up with fresh gravel from time to
> time!
bit of stick from the surface of the Caribbean (during my sole visit there)
in order to fly up, drop it and catch it in mid-air again...
Mike.
--
If reply address is Mike@@mjcoon.+.com (invalid), remove spurious "@"
and substitute "plus" for +.
Darkside
Apr 16, 2013, 4:04:47 AM4/16/13
to
In article <PeSdnTPFcMQ3H_HM...@brightview.co.uk>, Mike
Coon <Mike@?.+.com> writes
makes them sound very interesting. You'd expect them to need a similar
range of skills to seagulls.
--
Sue ]:(:)
Coon <Mike@?.+.com> writes
>Darkside wrote:
>> Hmmm... the gull was dropping the stones over water, not over the
>> barely-submerged shingle bank where they'd have hit another bird. And
>> it did seem to be trying to catch them in mid-air, as it succeeded
>> about half the time. When it failed it returned to the bank and
>> dabbled like a duck to get another one.
>> I wonder how much of its skill set is innate to a gull and how much is
>> learned from other birds? Is there any evidence of gulls learning
>> from other species?
>
>> Hmmm... the gull was dropping the stones over water, not over the
>> barely-submerged shingle bank where they'd have hit another bird. And
>> it did seem to be trying to catch them in mid-air, as it succeeded
>> about half the time. When it failed it returned to the bank and
>> dabbled like a duck to get another one.
>> I wonder how much of its skill set is innate to a gull and how much is
>> learned from other birds? Is there any evidence of gulls learning
>> from other species?
>
>My only nearly-relevant observation is of seeing a frigate bird picking up a
>bit of stick from the surface of the Caribbean (during my sole visit there)
>in order to fly up, drop it and catch it in mid-air again...
>
Sounds similar. I don't know anything about frigate birds but Wikipedia
>bit of stick from the surface of the Caribbean (during my sole visit there)
>in order to fly up, drop it and catch it in mid-air again...
>
makes them sound very interesting. You'd expect them to need a similar
range of skills to seagulls.
--
Sue ]:(:)
Message has been deleted
Darkside
Apr 16, 2013, 7:08:53 AM4/16/13
to
In article <EJBwHy5V...@indaal.demon.co.uk>, Malcolm
<Mal...@indaal.demon.co.uk> writes
>but that performance improves with age! They then have some interesting
>stats about drop success: 1st-years averaged 2.3 drops before a scallop
>shell was broken, while 43% broke the shell at first drop; for
>2nd-years, the figures were 2.1 and 60%; 3rd-years, 1.7 and 62%; and
>adults, 1.6 and 65%. Somebody must have spent a few hours watching
>them!
>
And knew their seagull plumages intimately before they even started.
Do the gulls actually break the shells by impact with the water?
--
Sue ]:(:)
<Mal...@indaal.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>
>>Yes, it does! Interesting suggestion. Hmmm... the gull was dropping
>>the stones over water, not over the
>>barely-submerged shingle bank where they'd have hit another bird. And
>>it did seem to be trying to catch them in mid-air, as it succeeded about
>>half the time. When it failed it returned to the bank and dabbled like
>>a duck to get another one. I wonder how much of its skill set is
>>innate to a gull and how much is
>>learned from other birds? Is there any evidence of gulls learning from
>>other species?
>
>BWP says that young gulls often drop items unsuccessfully over water,
>>Yes, it does! Interesting suggestion. Hmmm... the gull was dropping
>>the stones over water, not over the
>>barely-submerged shingle bank where they'd have hit another bird. And
>>it did seem to be trying to catch them in mid-air, as it succeeded about
>>half the time. When it failed it returned to the bank and dabbled like
>>a duck to get another one. I wonder how much of its skill set is
>>innate to a gull and how much is
>>learned from other birds? Is there any evidence of gulls learning from
>>other species?
>
>but that performance improves with age! They then have some interesting
>stats about drop success: 1st-years averaged 2.3 drops before a scallop
>shell was broken, while 43% broke the shell at first drop; for
>2nd-years, the figures were 2.1 and 60%; 3rd-years, 1.7 and 62%; and
>adults, 1.6 and 65%. Somebody must have spent a few hours watching
>them!
>
And knew their seagull plumages intimately before they even started.
Do the gulls actually break the shells by impact with the water?
--
Sue ]:(:)
Mike Coon
Apr 16, 2013, 7:58:36 AM4/16/13
to
Darkside wrote:
> And knew their seagull plumages intimately before they even started.
> Do the gulls actually break the shells by impact with the water?
Surely they are just competing to get the most skips before the stones sink,
> And knew their seagull plumages intimately before they even started.
> Do the gulls actually break the shells by impact with the water?
like any other teenager...
Message has been deleted
Darkside
Apr 17, 2013, 3:19:15 AM4/17/13
to
In article <sCPKlRBt...@indaal.demon.co.uk>, Malcolm
<Mal...@indaal.demon.co.uk> writes
>substrates. It only mentions young, inexperienced birds dropping them
>over over water.
>
That makes better sense. I'm not sure the terminal velocity of a cockle
would be high enough to injure the animal on impact, let alone break the
shell.
There's a nuthatch outside...
--
Sue ]:(:)
<Mal...@indaal.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>>Do the gulls actually break the shells by impact with the water?
>
>No, never, I would think. This was all about dropping onto hard
>>Do the gulls actually break the shells by impact with the water?
>
>substrates. It only mentions young, inexperienced birds dropping them
>over over water.
>
That makes better sense. I'm not sure the terminal velocity of a cockle
would be high enough to injure the animal on impact, let alone break the
shell.
There's a nuthatch outside...
--
Sue ]:(:)
Christina Websell
Apr 17, 2013, 2:44:32 PM4/17/13
to
"Darkside" <s...@blackhole.invalid> wrote in message
news:CBPPtiB8...@mashtub.demon.co.uk...
minutes." No-one knows.
Tina
Message has been deleted
Christina Websell
Apr 17, 2013, 11:40:03 PM4/17/13
to
"Malcolm" <Mal...@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:LJ$znNHuB...@indaal.demon.co.uk...
>
> In article <at88sh...@mid.individual.net>, Christina Websell
> <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> writes
>
> It's attacking its reflection in the glass.
>
> --
> Malcolm
But why? I've lived here for 25+ years, lots of blue tits and never had one
leap up & down on my windowsill like it was on a trampoline for 3 minutes
before.
There must be a reason, unless it's one of those that Darwin missed.
Luckily my cat was asleep upstairs otherwise it might have been an
ex-bluetit. He rarely bothers with birds - too much trouble - but he might
have had a go at that one.
He's an ace catcher of small rats though and I always say it stops them
getting big.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Mike Coon
Apr 18, 2013, 4:05:04 AM4/18/13
to
Malcolm wrote:
> Perhaps the blue tit was winding up your cat, knowing it was safe
> behand the glass. Probably not Darwinian, though.
But that does sound like the famous "Darwin Awards"!
MIke.
> Perhaps the blue tit was winding up your cat, knowing it was safe
> behand the glass. Probably not Darwinian, though.
But that does sound like the famous "Darwin Awards"!
MIke.
Bertie Doe
Apr 18, 2013, 4:24:27 AM4/18/13
to
"Malcolm" wrote in message news:+urOu4H9...@indaal.demon.co.uk...
In article <at988j...@mid.individual.net>, Christina Websell
<spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> writes
>>>
Because it sees its reflection as a rival.
> I've lived here for 25+ years, lots of blue tits and never had one
>leap up & down on my windowsill like it was on a trampoline for 3 minutes
>before.
I have a more plausible theory: I think Christina is jumping up and down on
a trampoline and is seeing her own reflection in the window.
Maybe it's time to change to something less strenuous - like a rowing
machine?
In article <at988j...@mid.individual.net>, Christina Websell
<spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> writes
>>>
>>>Much like "why is a blue tit jumping up and down on my windowsill for 3
>>>minutes." No-one knows.
>>
>> I do :-)
>>
>> It's attacking its reflection in the glass.
>
>But why?
>>>minutes." No-one knows.
>>
>> I do :-)
>>
>> It's attacking its reflection in the glass.
>
Because it sees its reflection as a rival.
> I've lived here for 25+ years, lots of blue tits and never had one
>leap up & down on my windowsill like it was on a trampoline for 3 minutes
>before.
a trampoline and is seeing her own reflection in the window.
Maybe it's time to change to something less strenuous - like a rowing
machine?
Christina Websell
Apr 21, 2013, 2:54:03 PM4/21/13
to
news:+urOu4H9...@indaal.demon.co.uk...
>
> In article <at988j...@mid.individual.net>, Christina Websell
> room/curtains/etc might have produed a better reflection this year.
>
> It is a common practice among birds. They have also been known to attack
> their reflections in hubcaps, when lots of cars had shiny ones.
He's here every day now, jumping up and down and flinging himself against my
window. I'm afraid in case he will kill himself and I don't know how to
prevent it.
> --
> Malcolm
>
> In article <at988j...@mid.individual.net>, Christina Websell
>>But why?
>
> Because it sees its reflection as a rival.
>
>
> Because it sees its reflection as a rival.
>
>> I've lived here for 25+ years, lots of blue tits and never had one
>>leap up & down on my windowsill like it was on a trampoline for 3 minutes
>>before.
>
> Birds are individuals and don't all behave the same. Some change in the
>>leap up & down on my windowsill like it was on a trampoline for 3 minutes
>>before.
>
> room/curtains/etc might have produed a better reflection this year.
>
> It is a common practice among birds. They have also been known to attack
> their reflections in hubcaps, when lots of cars had shiny ones.
He's here every day now, jumping up and down and flinging himself against my
window. I'm afraid in case he will kill himself and I don't know how to
prevent it.
> --
> Malcolm
Mike Coon
Apr 21, 2013, 3:00:14 PM4/21/13
to
Christina Websell wrote:
> He's here every day now, jumping up and down and flinging himself
> against my window. I'm afraid in case he will kill himself and I
> don't know how to prevent it.
Stick a bit of bubble-wrap on the outside of the window where he performs.
> He's here every day now, jumping up and down and flinging himself
> against my window. I'm afraid in case he will kill himself and I
> don't know how to prevent it.
Either it will dull the reflection and/or make him bounce off...
Mike.
Christina Websell
Apr 21, 2013, 4:07:16 PM4/21/13
to
news:IsAjeyKR...@indaal.demon.co.uk...
>
> In article <+urOu4H9...@indaal.demon.co.uk>, Malcolm
> <Mal...@indaal.demon.co.uk> writes
>>
>>In article <at988j...@mid.individual.net>, Christina Websell
>><spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> writes
>>>
asleep when this happened.
I cannot say he has never caught a bird but he is fabulous with killing
small rats - which I always say stops them getting big.
If he sees a big rat with brown chisel teeth, he washes himself and pretends
he didn't see it.
I call that sensible. Big rats are a terrier thing.
I have stopped most of the rats by feeding my chickens in the morning as
much as they will eat and again at night before they go to bed. I couldn't
do that when I was working. I filled the hopper and of course I got rats.
I exercised them with terriers. They were not poisoned which is a slow and
cruel death IMO and some got away and some didn't.
Rats are amazingly intelligent, some jumped up into the trees when they saw
the terriers and some were not so bright and decided to take the terriers
on. Bad luck for those ones, eh? snap, RB.
>
> In article <+urOu4H9...@indaal.demon.co.uk>, Malcolm
> <Mal...@indaal.demon.co.uk> writes
>>
>>In article <at988j...@mid.individual.net>, Christina Websell
>><spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> writes
>>>
>>>"Malcolm" <Mal...@indaal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>news:LJ$znNHuB...@indaal.demon.co.uk...
>>>news:LJ$znNHuB...@indaal.demon.co.uk...
>>>Luckily my cat was asleep upstairs otherwise it might have been an
>>>ex-bluetit. He rarely bothers with birds - too much trouble - but he
>>>might
>>>have had a go at that one.
>>
>>>ex-bluetit. He rarely bothers with birds - too much trouble - but he
>>>might
>>>have had a go at that one.
>>
>>Perhaps the blue tit was winding up your cat, knowing it was safe behand
>>the glass. Probably not Darwinian, though.
Nope, my cat rarely catches birds and would have been on his duvet fast
>>the glass. Probably not Darwinian, though.
asleep when this happened.
I cannot say he has never caught a bird but he is fabulous with killing
small rats - which I always say stops them getting big.
If he sees a big rat with brown chisel teeth, he washes himself and pretends
he didn't see it.
I call that sensible. Big rats are a terrier thing.
I have stopped most of the rats by feeding my chickens in the morning as
much as they will eat and again at night before they go to bed. I couldn't
do that when I was working. I filled the hopper and of course I got rats.
I exercised them with terriers. They were not poisoned which is a slow and
cruel death IMO and some got away and some didn't.
Rats are amazingly intelligent, some jumped up into the trees when they saw
the terriers and some were not so bright and decided to take the terriers
on. Bad luck for those ones, eh? snap, RB.
Message has been deleted
Christina Websell
Apr 21, 2013, 4:32:32 PM4/21/13
to
"Mike Coon" <Mike@@mjcoon.+.com> wrote in message
news:L4mdnTra-vatqunM...@brightview.co.uk...
> Christina Websell wrote:
>> He's here every day now, jumping up and down and flinging himself
>> against my window. I'm afraid in case he will kill himself and I
>> don't know how to prevent it.
>
> Stick a bit of bubble-wrap on the outside of the window where he performs.
> Either it will dull the reflection and/or make him bounce off...
>
> Mike.
I will try that, thanks for the idea.
>> He's here every day now, jumping up and down and flinging himself
>> against my window. I'm afraid in case he will kill himself and I
>> don't know how to prevent it.
>
> Stick a bit of bubble-wrap on the outside of the window where he performs.
> Either it will dull the reflection and/or make him bounce off...
>
> Mike.
.
pink...@gmail.com
Mar 16, 2019, 3:34:57 PM3/16/19
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