Densen DeMagic CD: Snake Oil ?
Rory
From hificables.co.uk:
This Gold CD is a must for all music and hi-fi enthusiasts. Simply place
this disc into your CD player, set the volume to normal listening levels
and press play. In approximately 3 minutes your system will sound a
million dollars.How does the Densen DeMagic work? All electronic parts
(resistors, capacitors etc) contain a small amount of magnets. Due to
the DC leakage from all electronic equipment, these magnets will
gradually be orientated in one direction. Over time this affects the
signal transfer through the whole system and lowers the quality of the
reproduced sound. DeMagic sends a series of complex algorithm signals
through your system, which relocates the magnets and thereby breaks the
magnetic field and its negative effects on sound. Over 100,000
audiophiles worldwide have benefited from this Stereophile recommended
component.
Is this snake oil ?
Rgds
Rory...
Terry
"Rory" <rorym@stop~spam.games-world.net> wrote in message
news:atpmv9$4i8$1...@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...
Sounds like bull****.
Regards
Arny Krueger
> This Gold CD is a must for all music and hi-fi enthusiasts.
Do you even have to ask?
;-)
Densen's web site mouths other common snake-oil mantras:
(1) Zero feedback (a claim they make and shortly contradict at
http://www.densen.dk/Articles/zero.htm )
(2) Digital word length extension
http://www.densen.dk/Articles/plusbit.htm
(3) AC power pseudo-science
http://www.densen.dk/Articles/perfect_sound.htm
I mean like Stereophile hypes it, isn't that enough?
Simian
I suppose it could be a Late April Fools joke, but otherwise, pure snake
oil made to an ancient Atlantian recipe, distilled by Virgin Essex Girls,
bottled by Tibetan monks at full moon, and finally left under a magnetic
pyramid surrounded by semi-precious stones and a copper bracelet for 6 months.
Keith G
news:v00s9u7...@news.supernews.com...
What are *you* wibbling about?
;-)
(PS. Leave the trolls alone and they'll go away.......)
>
Serge Auckland
Firstly, not all components contain magnets, in fact, I can't think of any
save mechanical components. Secondly, even if there were magnetic elements
to any components, so what. How can permanent magnets affect the sound?
Thirdly, Complex algorithms don't move magnets. Trucks move magnets, even a
pickup arm will move a magnet, but an algorithm?
Finally, even if, by some obscure magic, demagnetising the mythical magnets
improved the sound, the magnets would reform in a very short time from the
same DC that formed them in the first place, so the sound would degrade
immediately.
No, this one goes into the same pile as the pyramid into which you placed
your cartridge, and it would stop the stylus going blunt!
Serge
"Rory" <rorym@stop~spam.games-world.net> wrote in message
news:atpmv9$4i8$1...@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...
Simian
>> oil made to an ancient Atlantian recipe, distilled by Virgin Essex Girls,
>> bottled by Tibetan monks at full moon, and finally left under a magnetic
>> pyramid surrounded by semi-precious stones and a copper bracelet for 6
>> months.
>
> What are *you* wibbling about? ;-)
It's called 'humour', it's kind of a tricky concept, but many people,
even some Americans, manage to grasp the basics eventually.
> (PS. Leave the trolls alone and they'll go away.......)
Seemed like an innocent (if dumb) question to me, but I bow to your
superior trollwissen.
Triffid
Prob from the same line as hi-fi mains cables.
Keith G
> Keith G :
> > "Simian" <Sim...@simian.org.uk> wrote in message
> >>
> >> I suppose it could be a Late April Fools joke, but otherwise, pure
snake
> >> oil made to an ancient Atlantian recipe, distilled by Virgin Essex
Girls,
> >> bottled by Tibetan monks at full moon, and finally left under a
magnetic
> >> pyramid surrounded by semi-precious stones and a copper bracelet for 6
> >> months.
> >
> > What are *you* wibbling about? ;-)
>
> It's called 'humour', it's kind of a tricky concept, but many people,
> even some Americans, manage to grasp the basics eventually.
It's not that. You managed to significantly omit that if the above procedure
is not performed at an intersection of two leylines it is rendered
*entirely* ineffective...........
> > (PS. Leave the trolls alone and they'll go away.......)
>
> Seemed like an innocent (if dumb) question to me, but I bow to your
> superior trollwissen.
Well, *my* 'troll warning' light came on. (Perhaps it needs
re-biasing.......)
TCS
TCS
> From hificables.co.uk:
wanna buy a tice clock? I can make you an exact copy (after all it's only
a $20 radio shack clock) and sell it to you for 1/2 price: $250. It can be
plugged in anywhere near your hifi system and it'll rearange the electrons
in your power source to make your system sound better!
Allen RENY
>
>
HA HA HA !!! :-)
--
Allen Reny.
http://www.a-reny.com
Andrew Rose
<rorym@stop~spam.games-world.net> writes
>
>Is this snake oil ?
>
--
Andrew Rose
Pristine Audio - specialists in audio transfer and digital restoration
www.pristineaudio.co.uk
tel. 01227 750079
Andrew Rose
I'd like to see that substantiated!!!!!
Kurt Hamster
<resto...@pristineaudio.co.uk> borrowed
<dbInshFvcOA+Ewi$@ajrose.fsnet.co.uk> to say...
>In message <atpmv9$4i8$1...@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Rory
><rorym@stop~spam.games-world.net> writes
>>
>> Over 100,000 audiophiles worldwide have benefited from this
>
>I'd like to see that substantiated!!!!!
Are they all mates of Max?
CraigM
news:atpmv9$4i8$1...@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...
>
>
Well I might be the only one on here who thinks this, but I have to say it
does work. I have been using one for several years and it does really make
quite a big difference to the sound - lots more clarity/detail.
My Dad and brother also use them on their Audiolab and Marantz/Audiolab
systems and also notice a big difference in the sound.
I can't say that they will work for every system, but every system I've used
them in (even the CD player in the car) I have noticed an improvement in the
sound.
Regards,
Craig.
TCS
Don't forget to follow the instructions exactly. Mine didn't work
until I did the dance while strangling a live chicken in a
counterclockwise direction. Do it clockwise and you're system will sound
worse.
Thomas
"Rory" <rorym@stop~spam.games-world.net> wrote in message
news:atpmv9$4i8$1...@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...
>
>
> Is this snake oil ?
>
Not sure about the Densen, but I have a Bedini CD demagnetiser, which
de-mags the CD's (rather than the player). Treatment takes about 10 seconds
and lasts approx 6 months. Only consumable is a 9v battery, which lasts for
ages.
The Bedini DOES work very well, especially on female vocals and orchestral
works, although most other genres of music also show improvement, mainly in
terms of mid-band quality.
Not cheap at £69, but worth while to people with large CD collections, it's
one portion of "Snake oil" that gets my vote.
Thomas
Don Pearce
NURSE! He's got out again...
d
_____________________________
Telecommunications consultant
http://www.pearce.uk.com
Rory
Just because I asked a question that provoked a discussion it doesn't
mean I'm a troll.
I just thought maybe I was missing something....so I put it to the
wisdom of the group.
Rgds
Rory...
Rory
Don Pearce wrote
>NURSE! He's got out again...
>
>d
>
>
>
If people are happy with their purchases then that's their perogative (sp?).
> Denson:Is this snake oil ?
If it is so certain then you have to wonder why a portion of our tax bucks go towards running 'Trading Standards' and these things can still be sold openly.
Rgds
Rory...
Keith G
Sorry Rory - my mistake! (It was my 'top poster' light, after all........)
;-)
Simian
>
>> Is this snake oil ?
>
> Not sure about the Densen, but I have a Bedini CD demagnetiser, which
> de-mags the CD's (rather than the player). Treatment takes about 10 seconds
> and lasts approx 6 months. Only consumable is a 9v battery, which lasts for
> ages.
Yes, that thin-to-the-point-of-transparency aluminium foil must become
heavily magnetised over time, and that will obviously strongly affect
the speed and stability of the spinning disc and also the reflectivity
of it's surface, not to mention the massive alteration of the IR laser
beam.
> Not cheap at £69, but worth while to people with large CD collections, it's
> one portion of "Snake oil" that gets my vote.
They let you vote?
trotsky
Pearce, why not actually grow some bollocks and try the product?
Simian
> Don Pearce wrote:
>>>Not sure about the Densen, but I have a Bedini CD demagnetiser, which
>>>de-mags the CD's (rather than the player). Treatment takes about 10 seconds
>>>and lasts approx 6 months. Only consumable is a 9v battery, which lasts for
>>>ages.
>>>
>>>one portion of "Snake oil" that gets my vote.
>>
>
> Pearce, why not actually grow some bollocks and try the product?
Perhaps he doesn't feel like wasting 70 quid, or maybe he just likes the
sound of magnetized plastic.
Don Pearce
Just how good is it, Trots?
TCS
>"Rory" <rorym@stop~spam.games-world.net> wrote in message
>news:atpmv9$4i8$1...@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...
>>
>>
><snip>
>> Is this snake oil ?
>>
>Not sure about the Densen, but I have a Bedini CD demagnetiser, which
>de-mags the CD's (rather than the player). Treatment takes about 10 seconds
>and lasts approx 6 months. Only consumable is a 9v battery, which lasts for
>ages.
>The Bedini DOES work very well, especially on female vocals and orchestral
>works, although most other genres of music also show improvement, mainly in
>terms of mid-band quality.
It's amazing how it changes the digital data and even gets the checksums to
match the new digital data, all to make female vocals sound better!
Wanna buy a bridge?
Kurt Hamster
borrowed <v03dkvb...@news.supernews.com> to say...
>Perhaps he doesn't feel like wasting 70 quid, or maybe he just likes the
>sound of magnetized plastic.
At least vinyl doesn't get magnetised!
<grdfc>
yuletide rambo
"Rory" <rorym@stop~spam.games-world.net> wrote in message
news:atpmv9$4i8$1...@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...
>
>
>
> This Gold CD is a must for all music and hi-fi enthusiasts. Simply place
> this disc into your CD player, set the volume to normal listening levels
> and press play. In approximately 3 minutes your system will sound a
> million dollars.How does the Densen DeMagic work? All electronic parts
> (resistors, capacitors etc) contain a small amount of magnets. Due to
> the DC leakage from all electronic equipment, these magnets will
> gradually be orientated in one direction. Over time this affects the
> signal transfer through the whole system and lowers the quality of the
> reproduced sound. DeMagic sends a series of complex algorithm signals
> through your system, which relocates the magnets and thereby breaks the
> magnetic field and its negative effects on sound. Over 100,000
> audiophiles worldwide have benefited from this Stereophile recommended
> component.
>
>
>
> Rory...
If I demagnetize my hard disk will my mp3s sound beter??
Kurt Hamster
<att1po$o7g$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk> to say...
>If I demagnetize my hard disk will my mp3s sound beter??
It all depends if any of them are by Britney Spears :)
CraigM
"TCS" <The.Central...@p.o.b.o.x...c.o.m> wrote in message
news:slrnb025tt.mt5.The....@flatland.dimensional.com...
>
> Don't forget to follow the instructions exactly. Mine didn't work
> until I did the dance while strangling a live chicken in a
> counterclockwise direction. Do it clockwise and you're system will sound
> worse.
Hmm, I really thought it was a load of rubbish until I tried it. Clearly you
haven't tried one - your loss.
Regards,
Craig.
TCS
I told you I tried it. Works great. You just have to remember to do
the dance thing with the live chicken properly.
Thomas
"TCS" <The.Central...@p.o.b.o.x...c.o.m> wrote in message
to
> match the new digital data, all to make female vocals sound better!
>
> Wanna buy a bridge?
Got one thanks (in my mouth...I'm that old..!)
As for "amazing changes" - yes it does. Not so sure it (the Bedini) changes
the "digital data" (which very clearly it doesn't). But it (the Bedini
again) does seem to affect the way in which the laser assembly focuses on
the CD in the first place.
And it doesn't just make the female vocals sound better. ALL vocals sound
better, it's just more noticeable on the female singers voices in
particular.
Thomas
Thomas
Yup, been voting for years and proud of it (unlike a good percentage of the
population who fail to use their democratic right to elect the fools who
govern us...!)
Thomas
TCS
simple placebo effect.
Thomas
More like because he doesn't believe it works, therefore it cannot work and
therefora anyone who uses it and knows it works must be talking rubbish.
Sounds like the old "Linn" philosphy coming out again.
It's not make in Drakemire Drive, Casltemilk, therefore it cannot sound
good.
I remember Alvin Gold spouting this for years before he got some earbuds,
dewaxed his ears and heard a Audio Research/Krell pre-power jobby.
Thomas
PS If you don't try something, you'll never actually know whether something
is good or bad.
Arny Krueger
news:5dtM9.16929$k7.131...@news-text.cableinet.net...
> More like because he doesn't believe it works, therefore it cannot
work and
> therefore anyone who uses it and knows it works must be talking
rubbish.
More like the situation is that Pinkerton appreciates the obvious
futility of *demagnetizing* a CD. This has something to do with the
fact that CDs contain zero magnetic materials.
trotsky
Don Pearce wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 06:00:50 -0600, trotsky <gms...@email.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Don Pearce wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:37:09 GMT, "Thomas"
>>><nospa...@blueyonder.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Rory" <rorym@stop~spam.games-world.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:atpmv9$4i8$1...@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>><snip>
>>>>
>>>>>Is this snake oil ?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Not sure about the Densen, but I have a Bedini CD demagnetiser, which
>>>>de-mags the CD's (rather than the player). Treatment takes about 10 seconds
>>>>and lasts approx 6 months. Only consumable is a 9v battery, which lasts for
>>>>ages.
>>>>
>>>>The Bedini DOES work very well, especially on female vocals and orchestral
>>>>works, although most other genres of music also show improvement, mainly in
>>>>terms of mid-band quality.
>>>>
>>>>Not cheap at £69, but worth while to people with large CD collections, it's
>>>>one portion of "Snake oil" that gets my vote.
>>>>
>>>>Thomas
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>NURSE! He's got out again...
>>
>>
>>Pearce, why not actually grow some bollocks and try the product?
>
>
> Just how good is it, Trots?
I have no idea. But I have heard lots of tweaks that make a difference
in CD sound--not always for the better.
Arny Krueger
"Thomas" <nospa...@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
> As for "amazing changes" - yes it does.
It changes your money into Bedini's money.
>Not so sure it (the Bedini) changes
> the "digital data" (which very clearly it doesn't).
So far so good.
>But it (the Bedini
> again) does seem to affect the way in which the laser assembly
focuses on
> the CD in the first place.
...which is the same as changing digital data.
> And it doesn't just make the female vocals sound better. ALL vocals
sound
> better, it's just more noticeable on the female singers voices in
> particular.
Placebo effect or what?
If you understood how digital audio works, you'd never be fooled this
way, Thomas.
trotsky
Sounds like Pinkerton appreciates the obvious futility of doing DBTs, too.
trotsky
Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Thomas" <nospa...@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
> news:G7tM9.16922$%Y7.131...@news-text.cableinet.net...
>
>
>>As for "amazing changes" - yes it does.
>
>
> It changes your money into Bedini's money.
>
>
>>Not so sure it (the Bedini) changes
>>the "digital data" (which very clearly it doesn't).
>
>
> So far so good.
>
>
>>But it (the Bedini
>>again) does seem to affect the way in which the laser assembly
>
> focuses on
>
>>the CD in the first place.
>
>
> ...which is the same as changing digital data.
>
>
>>And it doesn't just make the female vocals sound better. ALL vocals
>
> sound
>
>>better, it's just more noticeable on the female singers voices in
>>particular.
>
>
> Placebo effect or what?
Jeez, Arny, I thought it was already explained to you that the word
"placebo" has no connection with audio experiences. What happened to
your brain, did it freeze when you were fixing radars in the snow in
Barvaria (sic)?
> If you understood how digital audio works, you'd never be fooled this
> way, Thomas.
Go thump your Bible somewhere else.
Stewart Pinkerton
<nospa...@blueyonder.invalid> wrote:
>Sounds like the old "Linn" philosphy coming out again.
>
>It's not make in Drakemire Drive, Casltemilk, therefore it cannot sound
>good.
No, if it *is* made in Eaglesham, then it can't sound good........
--
Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:
Well, a CD contains a tiny amount of paramagnetic material, but OTOH,
all these magical mystical CD treatments certainly do *not* work in
the real physical world. What happens inside the head of a 'true
believer' is of course anyone's guess!
Don Pearce
Incest and Morris Dancing come to mind here.
Viking
> CraigM wrote:
> >
> >"TCS" <The.Central...@p.o.b.o.x...c.o.m> wrote
> >>
> >> Don't forget to follow the instructions exactly. Mine
> >> didn't work until I did the dance while strangling a live
> >> chicken in a counterclockwise direction. Do it clockwise
> >> and you're system will sound worse.
> >
> >Hmm, I really thought it was a load of rubbish until I tried
> >it. Clearly you haven't tried one - your loss.
>
> I told you I tried it. Works great. You just have to
remember
> to do the dance thing with the live chicken properly.
Searching the fridge, I could only find a turkey - stuffed you
will note. Will that work too ?
-Eric-
Jim Lesurf
<pat...@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Dec 2002 00:53:26 GMT, "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com>
> wrote:
> >"Thomas" <nospa...@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:5dtM9.16929$k7.131...@news-text.cableinet.net...
> >
> >> More like because he doesn't believe it works, therefore it cannot
> >work and
> >> therefore anyone who uses it and knows it works must be talking
> >rubbish.
> >
> >More like the situation is that Pinkerton appreciates the obvious
> >futility of *demagnetizing* a CD. This has something to do with the
> >fact that CDs contain zero magnetic materials.
> Well, a CD contains a tiny amount of paramagnetic material,
Are you referring to the thin metal layer?
We've just been been doing some BH measurements on ferrites up to a Tesla.
Maybe after xmas we should experiment on some CDs. :-) Anyone want to
cough up 100 quid for the liquid Helium? ;->
> but OTOH, all these magical mystical CD treatments certainly do *not*
> work in the real physical world. What happens inside the head of a 'true
> believer' is of course anyone's guess!
Well, if a 'CD demagnetiser' *does* actually affect the physical state of
a CD and change the resulting output, I would assume the makers would find
it easy to show proof. All they have to do is record the channel data
streams from a chosen CD 'before' and 'after' and compare them. If they are
the same, then the recovered data has not been affected. If they *do*
differ, the differences can be analysed to see what audible effect (if any)
this might produce. If it does anything, this would presumably show up
irrespective of it being a 'magnetic' change or something more humble and
less magic-sounding, like simply damping vibrations.
Has any maker carried out such a fairly simple test and published the
results? If positive I would that thought they would find them excellent PR
and publicity matter. Well worth their effort.
Similarly, if the magnetic properties/state of the CD have been changed, I
assume they could also provide measurements of this as well. If nothing
else, they could send us a few hundred quid and some CDs to test. ;->
I must admit to having become puzzled by 'demagnetisers' for cartridges as
well. Just seen a 'review' <sic> of one in HiFi plus. I assume this does
*not* actually demagnetise the cartridge as this might mean it stopped
giving any output at all! So anyone know the details of the signals these
devices actually apply?
Slainte,
Jim
--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
MMWaves http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/MMWave/Index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html
Dave Plowman
Thomas <nospa...@blueyonder.invalid> wrote:
> As for "amazing changes" - yes it does. Not so sure it (the Bedini)
> changes the "digital data" (which very clearly it doesn't). But it (the
> Bedini again) does seem to affect the way in which the laser assembly
> focuses on the CD in the first place.
And why should that make a difference in a digital system?
BTW, if it is how it works it would be very easy to see on a scope.
--
*I wish the buck stopped here. I could use a few.
Dave Plowman dave....@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn
Dave Plowman
Thomas <nospa...@blueyonder.invalid> wrote:
> PS If you don't try something, you'll never actually know whether
> something is good or bad.
The makers of such products rely on this. Even although you can't
persuade yourself the money was well spent - and you will otherwise you
wouldn't buy it - they rely on the fact that most can't be bothered to
send it back for a refund. See also magnetic water softeners and petrol
conditioners. Non of which can ever be shown to work in tests, but
thousands swear by them.
--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?
Keith G
"Jim Lesurf" <jc...@st-and.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4ba7b9b...@st-and.demon.co.uk...
HiFi Plus?
For me, a quasi-religious expererience. (Like, I *want* to believe
but.........)
Keith G
news:svm50vkvh226319is...@4ax.com...
That's *very* interesting Don. I've been thinking of going down the very
same route..........
Kurt Hamster
borrowed <atuvkm$2udts$2...@ID-174693.news.dfncis.de> to say...
>> Incest and Morris Dancing come to mind here.
>
>
>That's *very* interesting Don. I've been thinking of going down the very
>same route..........
Do you have family who are into Morris Dancing then? ;)
Don Pearce
Then I hope your handkerchiefs are nice and clean.
trotsky
Some people have the balls to subject themselves to legitimate listening
experiences. This is just an offshoot of the high end cable market:
these products don't continue to sell because of some "mass hypnosis",
and your inability to address this rather obvious empirical evidence
shows just how much of a fraud you are. YOU HAVE NO EXPLANATION FOR
THIS OCURRENCE. I do: people hear differences and vote with their
wallets. Naturally, there is going to be a faction of people chewing on
sour grapes screaming "I don't get it!", and it's all too obvious that
you certainly don't.
trotsky
Don Pearce wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 18:55:42 -0600, trotsky <gms...@email.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Don Pearce wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 06:00:50 -0600, trotsky <gms...@email.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Don Pearce wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:37:09 GMT, "Thomas"
>>>>><nospa...@blueyonder.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>Not sure about the Densen, but I have a Bedini CD demagnetiser, which
>>>>>>de-mags the CD's (rather than the player). Treatment takes about 10 seconds
>>>>>>and lasts approx 6 months. Only consumable is a 9v battery, which lasts for
>>>>>>ages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The Bedini DOES work very well, especially on female vocals and orchestral
>>>>>>works, although most other genres of music also show improvement, mainly in
>>>>>>terms of mid-band quality.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Not cheap at £69, but worth while to people with large CD collections, it's
>>>>>>one portion of "Snake oil" that gets my vote.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thomas
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>NURSE! He's got out again...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Pearce, why not actually grow some bollocks and try the product?
>>>
>>>
>>>Just how good is it, Trots?
>>
>>
>>I have no idea. But I have heard lots of tweaks that make a difference
>>in CD sound--not always for the better.
>
>
> Incest and Morris Dancing come to mind here.
I have no idea what that means. Perhaps this is your personal brand of
intellectual bankruptcy. I think my earlier response to Stew should
suffice.
Don Pearce
I thought you might pick up the reference. Arnold Bax, in the late
1800s said, apropos of keeping an open mind:
"You should make a point of trying everything once, excepting incest
and folk-dancing".
I am quite prepared to add a CD demagnetiser to this little list.
Arny Krueger
"Dave Plowman" <dave....@argonet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4ba7c3b651...@argonet.co.uk...
> In article <G7tM9.16922$%Y7.131...@news-text.cableinet.net>,
> Thomas <nospa...@blueyonder.invalid> wrote:
> > As for "amazing changes" - yes it does. Not so sure it (the
Bedini)
> > changes the "digital data" (which very clearly it doesn't). But
it (the
> > Bedini again) does seem to affect the way in which the laser
assembly
> > focuses on the CD in the first place.
> And why should that make a difference in a digital system?
The theory goes something like this:
(1) Better focusing
(2) Lower error rates
(3) Better sound
> BTW, if it is how it works it would be very easy to see on a scope.
I've spent a lot of time looking at eye patterns, and I'd say maybe,
maybe not.
However, as some of us know, the only errors that matter are
uncorrected errors, and uncorrected errors stick out like sore
thumbs, when you analyze digital data streams.
Analysis of digital data streams from audio CDs in fair or better
condition typically show zero uncorrected errors per recorded musical
work, from UNtreated media.
Therefore, there is no lack of clarity for the *Clarifier* to
clarify.
If it's not broke...
;-)
Simian
>> sound of magnetized plastic.
>
> More like because he doesn't believe it works, therefore it cannot work and
> therefora anyone who uses it and knows it works must be talking rubbish.
> is good or bad.
But there's nothing in CDs that will act as a ferro magnet, so there's
nothing to de-magnetise, so it's not de-magnetizing anything.
I don't need to try it to know that.
TCS
>In article <G7tM9.16922$%Y7.131...@news-text.cableinet.net>,
> Thomas <nospa...@blueyonder.invalid> wrote:
>> As for "amazing changes" - yes it does. Not so sure it (the Bedini)
>> changes the "digital data" (which very clearly it doesn't). But it (the
>> Bedini again) does seem to affect the way in which the laser assembly
>> focuses on the CD in the first place.
>And why should that make a difference in a digital system?
It's *magic*.
>BTW, if it is how it works it would be very easy to see on a scope.
Only if you use probes made of magic wire and a magic antiglare screen.
Scenario one: person has paid a ton of money for not the slightest gain
in sound quality. Shrugs it off.
Scenario two: person has paid a ton of money for not the slightest gain
in sound quality. Says it make some kind fo subtle improvement.
Which do you think is more likely?
The funny part is that when the novely of buying this cable/green pen/etc.
wears off in a year or so, it'll also lose it's sonic abilities. It becomes
completely inert and it becomes time to buy another tweak.
Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:
Quite so. Trots is of course just being his usual dishonest sales
droid self here, as he knows perfectly well that I and some friends
conducted a rigorous DBT of the 'green pen' some years ago. As you
might predict, it had no audible effect whatever.
Stewart Pinkerton
>
>
>Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Dec 2002 00:53:26 GMT, "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Thomas" <nospa...@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
>>>news:5dtM9.16929$k7.131...@news-text.cableinet.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>More like because he doesn't believe it works, therefore it cannot
>>>
>>>work and
>>>
>>>>therefore anyone who uses it and knows it works must be talking
>>>
>>>rubbish.
>>>
>>>More like the situation is that Pinkerton appreciates the obvious
>>>futility of *demagnetizing* a CD. This has something to do with the
>>>fact that CDs contain zero magnetic materials.
>>
>>
>> Well, a CD contains a tiny amount of paramagnetic material, but OTOH,
>> all these magical mystical CD treatments certainly do *not* work in
>> the real physical world. What happens inside the head of a 'true
>> believer' is of course anyone's guess!
>
>
>Some people have the balls to subject themselves to legitimate listening
>experiences.
Yup, and other crooks like you sell stuff on the basis of illegitimate
sighted demos.
> This is just an offshoot of the high end cable market:
Correct.
>these products don't continue to sell because of some "mass hypnosis",
Depends what you call bullshit..................
>and your inability to address this rather obvious empirical evidence
>shows just how much of a fraud you are. YOU HAVE NO EXPLANATION FOR
>THIS OCURRENCE.
Sure I do: expectation effects and the Emperor's new clothes.
> I do: people hear differences and vote with their
>wallets. Naturally, there is going to be a faction of people chewing on
>sour grapes screaming "I don't get it!", and it's all too obvious that
>you certainly don't.
Oh, I get it, all right - you're just another crooked sales droid.
Don Pearce
Ah, but did you demagnetise the green pen first? If you had, you
know.... but do you have the balls to buy the demagnetiser, green pen
(and all of the hundred and one other pieces of paraphernalia
associated with the incantations)?
And do please understand that this stuff can only possibly work if you
are honest enough to conduct all your tests sighed, so that the
pressure of DBT is absent. After all, even cables known to be superior
fail to reveal their true differences under such pressure (must be
awful for them!).
Thomas
>
> Has any maker carried out such a fairly simple test and published the
> results? If positive I would that thought they would find them excellent
PR
> and publicity matter. Well worth their effort.
>
> Similarly, if the magnetic properties/state of the CD have been changed, I
> assume they could also provide measurements of this as well. If nothing
> else, they could send us a few hundred quid and some CDs to test. ;->
>
> I must admit to having become puzzled by 'demagnetisers' for cartridges as
> well. Just seen a 'review' <sic> of one in HiFi plus. I assume this does
> *not* actually demagnetise the cartridge as this might mean it stopped
> giving any output at all! So anyone know the details of the signals these
> devices actually apply?
Just found this...!
http://www.bedini.com/dual.htm
Thomas
PS Apologies to all - I should mention here that the Bedini is not called a
demagnetiser by it's makers - that was my misuse of the term - it's called a
"Clarifier". The link above shows the extent of their own testing with
regards to the claims they make.
Glenn Booth
In message <OxKM9.17887$_y.138...@news-text.cableinet.net>, Thomas
<nospa...@blueyonder.invalid> writes
>Just found this...!
>
>http://www.bedini.com/dual.htm
Well that was a larf. I took a quick look at the B.A.S.E page, and the
first thing I read was this:
" It makes normal stereo sound like mono " Trevor Wyatt A&R manager
Island Life.
He's obviously got gold (plated) ears, then. That isn't a quote I'd want
on my web page, even if it was true. Taken in context it actually makes
more sense, but it caught my eye before the header.
Oh, and that bloody midi the site plays at you is just awful.
They don't say much about *how* the 'clarifier' is supposed to work, but
they do claim:
"With its patented Electro Magnetic Beam Configuration, the Clarifier
polarizes the polymer in such a way as to maximize the laser's ability
to retrieve stored data"
My vague and failing engineers brain tells me there is no reason that an
em beam could not cause polarisation (I don't know if polymers can be
polarised, however... any long chain molecule specialists in the
house?). However, it seems academic to me, since it claims to improve
data that will be corrected anyway. If there are no errors in the error
corrected signal without this device, then I don't care two hoots if the
error rate of the data coming off the laser gets reduced when I
'clarify' the disc. It solves a problem that has already been solved.
Unless of course somebody out there happens to know that error
correction algorithms sound bad when they are working hard?
It won't be on my Christmas list.
Regards,
Glenn.
>
>Thomas
>
>PS Apologies to all - I should mention here that the Bedini is not called a
>demagnetiser by it's makers - that was my misuse of the term - it's called a
>"Clarifier". The link above shows the extent of their own testing with
>regards to the claims they make.
>
>
--
Glenn Booth
Simian
"polarizes the polymer" with an "Electro Magnetic Beam Configuration".
*snort*
Dave Plowman
Glenn Booth <glenn...@qtlg.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> "With its patented Electro Magnetic Beam Configuration, the Clarifier
> polarizes the polymer in such a way as to maximize the laser's ability
> to retrieve stored data"
Wonder if they obtained the patent and from where? It's not usually that
easy to patent an idea that doesn't work.
--
*Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill.
Simian
> Glenn Booth <glenn...@qtlg.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> "With its patented Electro Magnetic Beam Configuration, the Clarifier
>> polarizes the polymer in such a way as to maximize the laser's ability
>> to retrieve stored data"
>
>
> Wonder if they obtained the patent and from where? It's not usually that
> easy to patent an idea that doesn't work.
There are at least 3 current US patents for perpetual motion machines
so it can't be that hard.
trotsky
Pearce, you know what pisses me off? I've already bested you in this
discussion, and then you come back with this shit. I can't believe you
fucking robots keep on coming back and regrouping even though you just
get smashed like cockroaches every time. Next time you post this
bullshit I'll just post the two words "empirical evidence" and then you
can do your little Morriss Dance back into the woodwork where you belong.
trotsky
I did a sighted test with a green pen on a Patricia Barber CD a couple
of years ago, and it sounded noticeably worse. Your "science" stinks,
as usual.
trotsky
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Dec 2002 07:11:57 -0600, trotsky <gms...@email.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 20 Dec 2002 00:53:26 GMT, "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Thomas" <nospa...@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>news:5dtM9.16929$k7.131...@news-text.cableinet.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>More like because he doesn't believe it works, therefore it cannot
>>>>
>>>>work and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>therefore anyone who uses it and knows it works must be talking
>>>>
>>>>rubbish.
>>>>
>>>>More like the situation is that Pinkerton appreciates the obvious
>>>>futility of *demagnetizing* a CD. This has something to do with the
>>>>fact that CDs contain zero magnetic materials.
>>>
>>>
>>>Well, a CD contains a tiny amount of paramagnetic material, but OTOH,
>>>all these magical mystical CD treatments certainly do *not* work in
>>>the real physical world. What happens inside the head of a 'true
>>>believer' is of course anyone's guess!
>>
>>
>>Some people have the balls to subject themselves to legitimate listening
>>experiences.
>
>
> Yup, and other crooks like you sell stuff on the basis of illegitimate
> sighted demos.
Why aren't we in prison then, you psychotic bastard? You have invented
a reality that doesn't exist.
>> This is just an offshoot of the high end cable market:
>
>
> Correct.
>
>
>>these products don't continue to sell because of some "mass hypnosis",
>
>
> Depends what you call bullshit..................
What does that mean, besides yet another declaration of intellectual
bankruptcy?
>>and your inability to address this rather obvious empirical evidence
>>shows just how much of a fraud you are. YOU HAVE NO EXPLANATION FOR
>>THIS OCURRENCE.
>
>
> Sure I do: expectation effects and the Emperor's new clothes.
Oh, right: what Krueger used to trumpet until he was totally discredited
as the "placebo effect" has now transmogrified into the "expectation
effect." And when one of my customers compares Van den Hul cables to
Audioquest cables the "expectation effect" spins in what direction, you
lying fucking bastard? If you could just come up with even an *iota* of
science, Stew, I wouldn't have to be so profane.
>> I do: people hear differences and vote with their
>>wallets. Naturally, there is going to be a faction of people chewing on
>>sour grapes screaming "I don't get it!", and it's all too obvious that
>>you certainly don't.
>
>
> Oh, I get it, all right - you're just another crooked sales droid.
Intellectual bankruptcy--I'm right again. At least Pearce had enough
class to admit he was bested.
trotsky
Empirical evidence. Crawl back into your shithole, Pearce. Oh, and I
was only trolling when I told Stinkie that you had "class."
trotsky
Perhaps a pile of cow dung, then.
trotsky
Dave Plowman wrote:
> In article <mJ4nfYIh...@qtlg.demon.co.uk>,
> Glenn Booth <glenn...@qtlg.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>"With its patented Electro Magnetic Beam Configuration, the Clarifier
>>polarizes the polymer in such a way as to maximize the laser's ability
>>to retrieve stored data"
>
>
>
> Wonder if they obtained the patent and from where? It's not usually that
> easy to patent an idea that doesn't work.
That sounds like the voice of experience.
trotsky
How bad is your hi-fi, anonymouse?
Don Pearce
Sorry to hear you are still pissed off, Trots. It seems to be a
permanent condition these days. Me? full of the joys of spring! Almost
Christmas and I'm no longer yellow from Hep "A".
And of course thanks for the advice on empirical evidence, which
always sits well coming from a man who has just admitted he has never
tried the item either. Of course if you want to buy one and send i to
me, I would be happy to oblige; I just won't spend any of my own money
on it (any more than I would on a jester's cap and bells to go Morris
dancing).
Arny Krueger
> In article <mJ4nfYIh...@qtlg.demon.co.uk>,
> Glenn Booth <glenn...@qtlg.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> "With its patented Electro Magnetic Beam Configuration, the
>> Clarifier polarizes the polymer in such a way as to maximize the
>> laser's ability to retrieve stored data"
>
> Wonder if they obtained the patent and from where?
There are one or more U.S. patents that cover this device.
>It's not usually that easy to patent an idea that doesn't work.
I don't know if its easy, but it clearly done many times, these days.
Arny Krueger
news:3E03E20F...@email.com
Singh is cornered. This question is a true sign.
Jim Lesurf
I thought the USA had added a specific rule to their patent laws
specifically to exclude any attempts to patent this as they were getting
fed up with having to reject them on an individual basis.
Slainte,
Jim
--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
MMWaves http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/MMWave/Index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html
Jim Lesurf
> They don't say much about *how* the 'clarifier' is supposed to work, but
> they do claim:
> "With its patented Electro Magnetic Beam Configuration, the Clarifier
> polarizes the polymer in such a way as to maximize the laser's ability
> to retrieve stored data"
> My vague and failing engineers brain tells me there is no reason that an
> em beam could not cause polarisation (I don't know if polymers can be
> polarised, however... any long chain molecule specialists in the
> house?).
So far as I am aware, Cds are made of a polycarb which is essentially 'non
magnetic'. Being a dielectric, it is *electrically* polarisable, but this
would require an E-field not an H-field. However I'd expect any such
polarisation to vanish as soon as you cease applying a field. Unless of
course they are warming up the CD and applying a *large* E-field in order
to electrically polarise the material.
Not clear how applying either H-fields or E-fields would alter the polycarb
in a way that would have any effect upon readability with a laser.
Not read the site yet, so have no idea what buzz-phrases like "Electro
Magnetic Beam Configuration" may mean here. I'll have a look when I get a
chance, but if what you say is a fair representation it sounds like the
site may not say much that is helpful.
Jim Lesurf
<dave....@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <mJ4nfYIh...@qtlg.demon.co.uk>, Glenn Booth
> <glenn...@qtlg.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > "With its patented Electro Magnetic Beam Configuration, the Clarifier
> > polarizes the polymer in such a way as to maximize the laser's ability
> > to retrieve stored data"
> Wonder if they obtained the patent and from where? It's not usually that
> easy to patent an idea that doesn't work.
Depends upon how the patent application defined what is meant by "work".
:-) For example: It might just establish the device applies an E-field to
successfully (temporarily) polarise the dielectric. Of course, any applied
E-field would do this, so they would need to add something 'novel' like
applying a specific shape of field. Hence they could get a patent even if
what they described was not actually useful for the purpose for which it
ended up being sold.
It is possible to do a websearch of issued patents. I have done this in the
past, but have forgotten the relevant web-addresses. Anyone recall them, or
has already tried a search for this company or its products / brand names?
Jim Lesurf
> Not read the site yet, so have no idea what buzz-phrases like "Electro
> Magnetic Beam Configuration" may mean here. I'll have a look when I get
> a chance
I have now had a chance to visit the website. Unfortunately, I have some
difficulty navigating around it as it seems the inter-page links tend to be
via a Java applet which does not work with my JVM. I have managed to read
the "dual.htm" and root page served by www.bedini.com, but not the other
pages.
Could someone perhaps post the names of the other relevant webpages on the
bedini site so I can look at them? If I try the usual tricks I just get a
404 page from the server, not a list of files in the main directory.
The "dual" page talks about how the device "polarizes the polymer" but does
not explain how it does this, or why this should have any effect upon
reading via a laser. It is described as an "electromagnetic product" but
this isn't much help as the same description could be applied to a
transistor radio or a hand torch! Hence I have as yet no idea what the
device is doing. The "dual beam" implies some kind of illumination, but I
have seen no details.
There is an "experience the difference" image on the "dual.htm" page.
However this is quite small and hard to read. It seems to be a pair of
"before" and "after" plots which do not look the same. However they do
prompt some questions in my mind;
1) The wording says "10 second excerpt from Mike Oldfield's Portsmouth".
However it does not state that both plots are of precisely the same 10
second period, so that they should show the same pattern if the device has
no effect.
2) No vertical scales are given, nor are we told if every data sample is
plotted in each case and can be resolved. (Given that there would be nearly
half a million samples for a single channel at CD rate in 10 secs this
seems doubtful for such a small graphic.)
3) Only one line per plot, but we are not told if these are left channel
only, or right channel only, or a mono sum, or what.
4) The plots are just referred to by the term "waveform", but it is not
clear if these have been processed in some way.
5) The two patterns do look very different. Assuming they *are* of the same
set of samples, this is curious. Unless either the "before" or "after"
suffered from *very* high rates of data loss/error, I'd expect any changes
to be far more subtle. This implies that a serious problem was present that
radically altered the waveform. If so, this seems unusual as most people
report/measure quite low uncorrected bit error rates with CD systems.
However no information seems to be provided about the conditions under
which the test was done, or what equipment was used.
6) The text in the image refers to "electronic relaxation noise" but gives
no definition of this term. Nor does it offer any explanation which shows
why the apparent change *is* due to this rather than something else, or by
why a laser read system should be affected in any way.
It is sometimes possible to induce or remove excited electrons from 'trap
states' in dielectrics. However IIRC to do this usually requires something
like UV illumination. The reference they make to electronic relaxation
brings this to mind, but I assume the device is *not* doing this as such
illumination might damage the polymer structure and lead in the long term
to breakdown of the polymer. Again, though, even if it *is* doing this, it
isn't clear why this would significantly affect reading with a normal CD
laser system.
At first glance, therefore, the statements on the page I have seen look a
bit like techno-babble. However they may have a more sensible meaning which
will become apparent if I can get more information. Hence my request for
the names of other pages on the site.
If I can have a look at some of the other pages on the site I may then have
more info. If this does not resolve the questions I have I can then perhaps
email them to ask if they could perhaps clarify <pun> their evidence and
the physics they believe is involved. At present what I have seen seems
quite odd...
trotsky
Don Pearce wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Dec 2002 21:16:32 -0600, trotsky <gms...@email.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Don Pearce wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 20 Dec 2002 07:13:35 -0600, trotsky <gms...@email.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Don Pearce wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Incest and Morris Dancing come to mind here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I have no idea what that means. Perhaps this is your personal brand of
>>>>intellectual bankruptcy. I think my earlier response to Stew should
>>>>suffice.
>>>
>>>
>>>I thought you might pick up the reference. Arnold Bax, in the late
>>>1800s said, apropos of keeping an open mind:
>>>
>>>"You should make a point of trying everything once, excepting incest
>>>and folk-dancing".
>>>
>>>I am quite prepared to add a CD demagnetiser to this little list.
>>
>>
>>
>>Pearce, you know what pisses me off? I've already bested you in this
>>discussion, and then you come back with this shit. I can't believe you
>>fucking robots keep on coming back and regrouping even though you just
>>get smashed like cockroaches every time. Next time you post this
>>bullshit I'll just post the two words "empirical evidence" and then you
>>can do your little Morriss Dance back into the woodwork where you belong.
>
>
> Sorry to hear you are still pissed off, Trots. It seems to be a
> permanent condition these days. Me? full of the joys of spring! Almost
> Christmas and I'm no longer yellow from Hep "A".
You're just as yellow if you as me.
> And of course thanks for the advice on empirical evidence, which
> always sits well coming from a man who has just admitted he has never
> tried the item either. Of course if you want to buy one and send i to
> me, I would be happy to oblige; I just won't spend any of my own money
> on it (any more than I would on a jester's cap and bells to go Morris
> dancing).
No, I've never tried the item, but used to sell Bedini CD Clarifiers and
know that they work well. I've also tried green pens and have gotten
questionable results. You might want to consider peddling your religion
elsewhere.
trotsky
I'm cornered by recognizing that these kind of people hate hi-fi? It
reminds me of the age-old question:
Q: How can you tell me when Krueger is lying?
A: The lights on his modem are blinking.
Don Pearce
But not of pink as were it be! So but...
>
>> And of course thanks for the advice on empirical evidence, which
>> always sits well coming from a man who has just admitted he has never
>> tried the item either. Of course if you want to buy one and send i to
>> me, I would be happy to oblige; I just won't spend any of my own money
>> on it (any more than I would on a jester's cap and bells to go Morris
>> dancing).
>
>
>No, I've never tried the item, but used to sell Bedini CD Clarifiers and
>know that they work well. I've also tried green pens and have gotten
>questionable results. You might want to consider peddling your religion
>elsewhere.
NURSE!
Glenn Booth
writes
>
>
>Glenn Booth wrote:
[Snip]
>> Unless of course somebody out there happens to know that error
>>correction algorithms sound bad when they are working hard?
>> It won't be on my Christmas list.
>
>
>Perhaps a pile of cow dung, then.
Perhaps it is a pile of cow dung; I haven't heard it.
Glenn.
--
Glenn Booth
Chesney Christ
>
>"Rory" <rorym@stop~spam.games-world.net> wrote in message
>news:atpmv9$4i8$1...@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...
>>
>>
><snip>
>
>> Is this snake oil ?
>>
>
>Not sure about the Densen, but I have a Bedini CD demagnetiser, which
>de-mags the CD's (rather than the player). Treatment takes about 10 seconds
>and lasts approx 6 months. Only consumable is a 9v battery, which lasts for
>ages.
CDs (plastic) have magnetic fields these days ? That's a new one on me.
--
George H.W. Bush, as Presidential Nominee for the Republican party;
1987-AUG-27: "No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as
citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation
under God."
Chesney Christ
>Hmm, I really thought it was a load of rubbish until I tried it. Clearly you
>haven't tried one - your loss.
If it is possible for the sound in any CD player (the product does not
seem to discriminate) to be degraded in this way, don't you think the
manufacturers would by now have included some kind of circuit to
compensate ? Of course they would have. The manufacturers of this CD are
lying to you about these alleged "defects", and they've fooled you into
believing that they are there.
Chesney Christ
>
>
>From hificables.co.uk:
>
>This Gold CD is a must for all music and hi-fi enthusiasts. Simply
>place this disc into your CD player, set the volume to normal listening
>levels and press play. In approximately 3 minutes your system will
>sound a million dollars.How does the Densen DeMagic work? All
>electronic parts (resistors, capacitors etc) contain a small amount of
>magnets. Due to the DC leakage from all electronic equipment, these
>magnets will gradually be orientated in one direction.
Rubbish. Stay well clear.
Chesney Christ
>In article <mJ4nfYIh...@qtlg.demon.co.uk>,
> Glenn Booth <glenn...@qtlg.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> "With its patented Electro Magnetic Beam Configuration, the Clarifier
>> polarizes the polymer in such a way as to maximize the laser's ability
>> to retrieve stored data"
>
>
>Wonder if they obtained the patent and from where? It's not usually that
>easy to patent an idea that doesn't work.
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but it's very easy to
patent things that don't work. The problem is usually that the patent
office do not understand what is being patented very well. In the USA,
people up until recently were patenting perpetual-energy machines and
algorithms capable of compressing random data.
Chesney Christ
>Some people have the balls to subject themselves to legitimate
>listening experiences.
If anyone ever once to get into the business of selling stuff that can
never possibly work to fool the more ignorant hi-fi addicts, this is a
great place to tell everyone about them. Because you'll always know that
Trotsky here is ready to defend your products to the death - even
without trying them out.
Dave Plowman
trotsky <gms...@email.com> wrote:
> No, I've never tried the item, but used to sell Bedini CD Clarifiers and
> know that they work well.
So all it needs is a brand name to convince you?
> I've also tried green pens and have gotten
> questionable results.
Of course - it's a low cost item. Poor commission.
> You might want to consider peddling your religion
> elsewhere.
Hmm. Nice stereotype of a Merkin who thinks he owns the net. I presume
you're killfiled on all the US audio newsgroups?
--
*Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy *
Dave Plowman
trotsky <gms...@email.com> wrote:
> > Wonder if they obtained the patent and from where? It's not usually
> > that easy to patent an idea that doesn't work.
> That sounds like the voice of experience.
No - I'm happy to leave the invention to you.
--
*42.7% of statistics are made up. Sorry, that should read 47.2% *
Dave Plowman
Chesney Christ <thegreat...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Because you'll always know that Trotsky here is ready to defend your
> products to the death - even without trying them out.
If only - then he'd just be an honest salesman. But he appears to believe
these things work *after* listening to them. Of course he's barking.
--
*It's not hard to meet expenses... they're everywhere.
jo...@coedana.plus.com
<rorym@stop~spam.games-world.net> wrote:
>
> From hificables.co.uk:
>
>This Gold CD is a must for all music and hi-fi enthusiasts. Simply place
>this disc into your CD player, set the volume to normal listening levels
>and press play. In approximately 3 minutes your system will sound a
>million dollars.How does the Densen DeMagic work? All electronic parts
>(resistors, capacitors etc) contain a small amount of magnets. Due to
>the DC leakage from all electronic equipment, these magnets will
>signal transfer through the whole system and lowers the quality of the
>reproduced sound. DeMagic sends a series of complex algorithm signals
>through your system, which relocates the magnets and thereby breaks the
>magnetic field and its negative effects on sound. Over 100,000
>audiophiles worldwide have benefited from this Stereophile recommended
>component.
>
>Is this snake oil ?
Like so many "wonder gadgets" dressed up in pseudo-scientific crap,
this is yet just another con. The whole scene is aided and abetted by
the fundamentally dishonest hi-fi magazines whose so called experts
seem to have no qualification to judge the so-called science behind
these fairy stories. These "journo's" are no better than the so-called
science experts who write for the Fleet Steet gutter. Gone are the
good old days of George Tillett, James Moir and their well informed
and truly knowledgeable ilk.
Before I retired as a research scientist (dealing with electromagnetic
induction and dielectric heating) we used to laugh ourselves hoarse at
some of these claims.
Obviously if some poor soul has just paid loadsamoney for one of these
cons, what's he (and it invariably is a he) going to tell the wife
when she sees the bank statement? ;-) Hardly to say that he's been
well and truly parted from his money to no purpose, is he?
Although these claims were a source of amusement to us, the serious
side is that these companies are making a lot of money from conning
people with "scientific" clap-trap that they know will not be
understood (or challenged) by the great majority of the scientifically
ignorant public but who are truly impressed by the big words.
Just look at the prices charged for extremely ordinary (arguably
non-contentious) items when sold by "audiophile" companies. Can they
really justify charging 20 or 30 times more for cable ties that would
be charged by Maplins or B&Q? Any suggestion that they would make any
difference to the sound is preposterous - but I'm sure they would!
I've even seen the suggestion that cheap power cables need running in,
explained by some sort of "micro-welding" phenomenon. Of course this
won't happen with the very expensive cables costing hundreds of pounds
for a couple of metres of 3-core cable with a 13A plug on one end and
IEC connector on the other.
But then, what would I know? I only worked with currents up to 25kA
and frequencies up to 27MHz. Perhaps the magnetic fields have zapped
my brain. That's why I think my set up including Audiolab 8000P, Quad
303 amplifier and LS3/5a speakers with AB1 subs sounds rather good.
--
John Gruffydd (Mold, Wales, UK)
Fleetie
stupid"?
Martin
--
"It's an old wall, Avon. It waits. I hope you don't die before you reach it."
http://www.fleetie.demon.co.uk - Servalan
CraigM
"Chesney Christ" <thegreat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4RvgP4Pn$IB+...@ntlworld.com...
> A certain CraigM, of uk.rec.audio "fame", writes :
>
> >Hmm, I really thought it was a load of rubbish until I tried it. Clearly
you
> >haven't tried one - your loss.
>
> If it is possible for the sound in any CD player (the product does not
> seem to discriminate) to be degraded in this way, don't you think the
> manufacturers would by now have included some kind of circuit to
> compensate ? Of course they would have. The manufacturers of this CD are
> lying to you about these alleged "defects", and they've fooled you into
> believing that they are there.
They have not fooled me into believing anything - it does make a big
difference to the quality of the sound after it has been played, I don't
know how it does it, but it does. Perhaps you might actually consider trying
one before you say they are trying to fool people.
Even What Hi-Fi magazine gave it a 5 star rating when they tested it.
As I said before, I didn't think it would do anything - just like I didn't
think changing cables on a system would make any difference to the sound,
but I was wrong.
Regards,
Craig.
CraigM
>
> Rubbish. Stay well clear.
So you've tried one then??
Regards,
Craig.
Chesney Christ
>They have not fooled me into believing anything - it does make a big
>difference to the quality of the sound after it has been played, I don't
>know how it does it, but it does. Perhaps you might actually consider trying
>one before you say they are trying to fool people.
I don't need to, because I understand how a CD player works.
Likewise, I don't need to see a cold fusion machine in operation. I
didn't even have to listen to the initial reports for more than five
minutes in order to decide that it was rubbish. Why ? Because here's a
bunch of people telling us that they really can give the world something
for nothing. IT wasn't terribly surprising when it all transpired to be
a hoax designed to extract funding from government agencies.
Not intending to be offensive, but this product exists to exploit those
who do not understand how a CD player works. The way the brain
interprets sound is very much open to being interfered with - if you're
told that you *should* expect a difference (particularly if you paid 70
quid) then you will expect one. A double-blind test is of course the
only way to know for sure.
>Even What Hi-Fi magazine gave it a 5 star rating when they tested it.
Then their credibility is completely questionable - it was anyway, as
I've seen them rate the perceived sound quality from different brands of
minidisc (again - impossible).
Dave Plowman
CraigM <cra...@news-nospam.co.uk> wrote:
> They have not fooled me into believing anything - it does make a big
> difference to the quality of the sound after it has been played, I don't
> know how it does it, but it does. Perhaps you might actually consider
> trying one before you say they are trying to fool people.
> Even What Hi-Fi magazine gave it a 5 star rating when they tested it.
And that's proof?
> As I said before, I didn't think it would do anything - just like I
> didn't think changing cables on a system would make any difference to
> the sound, but I was wrong.
Did you know there's a cash prize waiting for anyone who can reliably tell
the difference between properly specified cables in a genuine test? And
that no-one has succeeded in winning it?
--
*Who is this General Failure chap anyway - and why is he reading my HD? *
CraigM
>
> I don't need to, because I understand how a CD player works.
I also know how a CD player works.
> Not intending to be offensive, but this product exists to exploit those
> who do not understand how a CD player works. The way the brain
> interprets sound is very much open to being interfered with - if you're
> told that you *should* expect a difference (particularly if you paid 70
> quid) then you will expect one. A double-blind test is of course the
> only way to know for sure.
Were talking about a £10 CD not £70. When I first heard the effects of the
Densen disc it was done as a blind test and I was able to notice a vast
improvement in sound quality. And if I do buy anything, no matter what the
price, and it doesn't do what it is supposed to I don't kid myself into
believing that it does work. Instead I will usually advertise the fact that
it is crap.
> >Even What Hi-Fi magazine gave it a 5 star rating when they tested it.
>
> Then their credibility is completely questionable - it was anyway, as
> I've seen them rate the perceived sound quality from different brands of
> minidisc (again - impossible).
I can't comment on this as I haven't tried different brands.
Regards,
Craig.
Arny Krueger
news:h64a0vghraqae5hqe...@4ax.com
> Firstly, do you feel that it has enriched your listening
> experiences, or detracted from them?
Yes, being ripped-off definitely enriches my listening experiences.
> Secondly, how do you feel these gains or losses, relate to the
> cost of the product?
I love to waste money. It makes me feel like I'm rich. See you at the
casino!
> Finally - consider a situation where it is proven to *your*
> satisfaction that this product introduces no change to the
> physical properties of the sound whatsoever, but that it
> *heightens your awareness* - for whatever reason.
Oh, knowing that I've been ripped-off by snake-oil merchants gives me
a warm fuzzy feeling.
> Furthermore,
> that your comprehension of the mechanism involved in this effect,
> has absolutely no bearing on it's impact.
Dormer, you can write better sentences than this.
>How do you think you would then answer the two questions above?
Sarcastically.