Celestion 600si versus Celestion 7000
ro...@my-deja.com
I am currently using a pair of Celestion 600si with the 6000 subwoofer
system. Can anyone tell me the differences between the Celestion 7000
and my Celestion 600si/6000 system? Which one consider a much higher
performance than the other? Any comment will be appreciate.
Regards,
Ron
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Salman Hussain
They could not be more different. I owned the MARK2 (and that is
important) 5000s, which were standmount versions of the 7000s. Both
Mark1 and Mark2s had relatively poor integration between bass and the
superb ribbon tweeter, although things were much improved in the mark 2.
The bass units are relatively cheap ones in either case - whereas the
ribbons were absolutely exceptional. For 1kHz upwards, I would say that
(from audio memory, which is notoriously troublesome!) the Celestions
driven by Audiolab monoblocks were better than my current ATC50actives.
But the midbass/low bass were weak, making the speaker incoherent
overall. Still a great secondhand buy, nonetheless. Just be aware of
the fact that, like Apogees, the ribbon tweeters might be hard to come
by should they 'go'.
The mark 1 had a silver metal plate in front of the ribbon panels; the
mark 2s had a black metal plate.
I don't think that Celestion ever got the sub/satellite system perfect
in terms of integration -so the 7000s are worth trying at least in a
head-to-head with the 600/6000s.
cheerio
salman
Anton Meyer
If memory serves, weren't you changing your SCM50As to WB ACT Ones ?
Regards
Anton Meyer
In article <3986FF...@ed.sac.ac.uk>,
Salman Hussain <s.hu...@ed.sac.ac.uk> wrote:
<snip>
For 1kHz upwards, I would say that (from audio memory, which is
notoriously troublesome!) the Celestions
driven by Audiolab monoblocks were better than my current ATC50actives.
<snip>
Salman Hussain
Memory does serve indeed! But the Act Ones that I wanted to buy
secondhand (actually from a dealer in Germany) have been sold. I could
not afford to buy them until I had sold my 50s.
I am now in a conundrum as I have placed an ad in Hifi World this month
and have a buyer waiting to buy the 50s, but I am not quite sure if I
can get anything that sounds anywhere near as good for circa £4000
secondhand (power amp plus speakers), which is already £800 more than I
am going to get for my actives. I sat down yesterday and listened to
the remastered 'Blue' by Joni Mitchell, followed by 'Swordfishtrombones'
(Tom Waits) and thought 'what are you doing changing this?' The set-up
really does sound spot on now, to my tastes.
What are you using yourself?
kind regards
salman
Anton Meyer
In article <39873E...@ed.sac.ac.uk>,
Salman Hussain <s.hu...@ed.sac.ac.uk> wrote:
> hi Anton
>
> Memory does serve indeed! But the Act Ones that I wanted to buy
> secondhand (actually from a dealer in Germany) have been sold. I could
> not afford to buy them until I had sold my 50s.
>
> I am now in a conundrum as I have placed an ad in Hifi World this
month
> and have a buyer waiting to buy the 50s, but I am not quite sure if I
> can get anything that sounds anywhere near as good for circa £4000
> secondhand (power amp plus speakers), which is already £800 more than
I
> am going to get for my actives. I sat down yesterday and listened to
> the remastered 'Blue' by Joni Mitchell, followed
by 'Swordfishtrombones'
> (Tom Waits) and thought 'what are you doing changing this?' The set-
up
> really does sound spot on now, to my tastes.
>
I understand your dilemma; perhaps a case of "If it ain't broke, don't
fix it". I think it might be worth hanging on to the 50s until you can
afford to spend the amount required to significantly improve on them.
> What are you using yourself?
I have a Teac P-30 transport, feeding an Audio Synthesis DAX-2 (via a
Nordost Silver Shadow AES/EBU cable) modified to run at 48kHz to match
the transport. Amplifier is Chord Electronics CPA2200 pre and two
bridged SPM600 monoblocks. Speakers are the aforementioned ACT Ones
(latest version with proprietary drive units). Interconnects and
speaker cables are Nordost SPM; mains cables Campaign Audio Design. The
system sits on a Mana 7-tier stand with sound bases under the speakers.
I auditioned the ATC SCM50 and 100 passives around the same time as the
ACT Ones. I also tried the JM Lab Mezzo Utopia and B&W Nautilus 802.
I can understand why you like the 50s, in fact I nearly ordered a pair,
but once I had grown accustomed to the ACT One's complete freedom from
box colouration and smearing, there was no going back. Of course,
speakers are hugely room, system and taste dependant, but for me these
were the best - albeit at a price ! Happy listening.
Regards
Anton Meyer
Salman Hussain
Thanks for the post.
>
> I understand your dilemma; perhaps a case of "If it ain't broke, don't
> fix it". I think it might be worth hanging on to the 50s until you can
> afford to spend the amount required to significantly improve on them.
Yes; it is just a question of aesthetics really.
>
> > What are you using yourself?
>
> I have a Teac P-30 transport, feeding an Audio Synthesis DAX-2 (via a
> Nordost Silver Shadow AES/EBU cable) modified to run at 48kHz to match
> the transport.
Dave Heaton seems to think that the P30 combo with the AS stuff is
superb. This is a commonly used combo in mainland Europe, apparently.
Amplifier is Chord Electronics CPA2200 pre and two
> bridged SPM600 monoblocks.
I used to own a Chord 1200b going into ATC20Ts (pre-SL). The 50 active
SLs secondhand cost me about the same amount of money as what i got for
the 1200b/20T/van den Hul Revelation, and were a large sonic
improvement.
One very cheap option ('cheap'in the context of your system) that i
could not recommend highly enough is the Meridian 518 as a digital
preamp. (You might have read me harking on about this before...) Even
though the active 2200 pre is, I am sure, good like all Chord products,
the £1100 retail 518 I think would reap a huge sonic improvement used as
a digital pre. Just make sure that you try it unbalanced first - the 7
volt output of the DAX2 balanced would be too high for the digital pre
to work properly. If you like the set-up, Dave Heaton can reduce the
output level of the DAX2 for a nominal sum. I have my DAX1 balanced set
to 1 volt balanced, 0.5volts unbalanced. I sometimes go above the 0db
ref point on the Meridian - but digital clipping is by and large
innocuous (sp?).
Speakers are the aforementioned ACT Ones
> (latest version with proprietary drive units). Interconnects and
> speaker cables are Nordost SPM; mains cables Campaign Audio Design. The
> system sits on a Mana 7-tier stand with sound bases under the speakers.
'Referencing' the Mana under the stand would also probably be a
fantastically good £200 investment. I am currently on 'Phase 3' in Mana
jargon (stand plus two soundstages). They are hyped; they are worthy of
the hype (is that a contradiction in terms?!).
>
> I auditioned the ATC SCM50 and 100 passives around the same time as the
> ACT Ones. I also tried the JM Lab Mezzo Utopia and B&W Nautilus 802.
> I can understand why you like the 50s, in fact I nearly ordered a pair,
> but once I had grown accustomed to the ACT One's complete freedom from
> box colouration and smearing, there was no going back.
I also understand your point re: the Act Ones. Did you ever try the
*active* 50s/100s by the way?
kind regards
salman
Anton Meyer
In article <3989A6...@ed.sac.ac.uk>,
Quite - although superbly constructed, ATCs are not renowned for their
visual appeal.
> > > What are you using yourself?
> >
> > I have a Teac P-30 transport, feeding an Audio Synthesis DAX-2 (via
a
> > Nordost Silver Shadow AES/EBU cable) modified to run at 48kHz to
match
> > the transport.
>
> Dave Heaton seems to think that the P30 combo with the AS stuff is
> superb. This is a commonly used combo in mainland Europe, apparently.
I can believe it - I think this transport is one of the best kept
secrets in audio. The P-0 is reputed to be better still, but it's only
available in Japan.
>
> Amplifier is Chord Electronics CPA2200 pre and two
> > bridged SPM600 monoblocks.
>
> I used to own a Chord 1200b going into ATC20Ts (pre-SL). The 50
active
> SLs secondhand cost me about the same amount of money as what i got
for
> the 1200b/20T/van den Hul Revelation, and were a large sonic
> improvement.
I listened to the active SCM20T (SL version) back-to-back with the
active 50SL; and yes, there is no comparison. I think the improvements
you heard were largely down to the speakers. Unfortunately, my
comparisons of the active 50SL with the passive 50SL driven by an
SPM1200C (quite an improvement over the 1200B evidently, which I have
never heard) were months apart in entirely different settings with
different music. Oh well, c'est la vie !
>
> One very cheap option ('cheap'in the context of your system) that i
> could not recommend highly enough is the Meridian 518 as a digital
> preamp. (You might have read me harking on about this before...) Even
> though the active 2200 pre is, I am sure, good like all Chord
products,
> the £1100 retail 518 I think would reap a huge sonic improvement used
as
> a digital pre. Just make sure that you try it unbalanced first - the
7
> volt output of the DAX2 balanced would be too high for the digital pre
> to work properly. If you like the set-up, Dave Heaton can reduce the
> output level of the DAX2 for a nominal sum. I have my DAX1 balanced
set
> to 1 volt balanced, 0.5volts unbalanced. I sometimes go above the 0db
> ref point on the Meridian - but digital clipping is by and large
> innocuous (sp?).
Yes, I've seen you mention the 518 before (apparently the preamp stage
of the DAX Decade is based on it); I also seem to remember reading some
articles about it in HFN/RR and HFW a while back. Am I right in
assuming it converts analogue inputs to digital? Presumably the volume
control also operates in the digital domain? I am quite willing to
investigate alternatives such as this (as well as the Decade and the
Chord DSC1500E), but the 2200 is one of the best two or three active
preamps I have ever heard, and much has been written about the obvious
synergy between it and the SPM600, 1000 and 1200 series power amps. As
always I guess it's a case of careful auditioning.
>
> Speakers are the aforementioned ACT Ones
> > (latest version with proprietary drive units). Interconnects and
> > speaker cables are Nordost SPM; mains cables Campaign Audio Design.
The
> > system sits on a Mana 7-tier stand with sound bases under the
speakers.
>
> 'Referencing' the Mana under the stand would also probably be a
> fantastically good £200 investment. I am currently on 'Phase 3' in
Mana
> jargon (stand plus two soundstages). They are hyped; they are worthy
of
> the hype (is that a contradiction in terms?!).
I cannot agree more. Due to an impending house move I am staring
impoverishment in the face, so this will almost certainly be the only
upgrade for the foreseeable future. The most cost-effective step Mana-
wise now appears to be a Sound Stage under the stand, according to
other Mana users (yourself included!) I agree that they are hyped, but
as you say the hype is justified, and one area where the dimishing
returns law does not apply.
> >
> > I auditioned the ATC SCM50 and 100 passives around the same time as
the
> > ACT Ones. I also tried the JM Lab Mezzo Utopia and B&W Nautilus
802.
> > I can understand why you like the 50s, in fact I nearly ordered a
pair,
> > but once I had grown accustomed to the ACT One's complete freedom
from
> > box colouration and smearing, there was no going back.
>
> I also understand your point re: the Act Ones. Did you ever try the
> *active* 50s/100s by the way?
Yes - but again in different circumstances. There's something in the
bass region (also heard with the passives) which I can't quite put my
finger on - a sort of 'wooden' quality. Very, very slight but
noticeable. This applied more with the 100 if memory serves. Don't
get me wrong - these are stunning in terms of cohesion and resolution,
and together with the aforementioned Mezzos, 802s and WBs are among the
very best speakers I have ever heard at any price, together with one or
two ProAcs. Had I not heard the ACT One which (when properly driven)
remains utterly convincing right down into the lowest octave, I could
happily live with either. In my opinion, the WB also images slightly
better, and sounds a tad more refined without any loss of resolution.
I look forward to your comments - have you had any experience with
mains conditioners?
Regards
Anton Meyer
Salman Hussain
(I've 'snipped' for brevity and copied to Anton privately and the
newsgroup.)
> I listened to the active SCM20T (SL version) back-to-back with the
> active 50SL; and yes, there is no comparison. I think the improvements
> you heard were largely down to the speakers. Unfortunately, my
> comparisons of the active 50SL with the passive 50SL driven by an
> SPM1200C (quite an improvement over the 1200B evidently, which I have
> never heard) were months apart in entirely different settings with
> different music. Oh well, c'est la vie !
I actually bought a pair of 20TASLs from a dealer quite cheaply; my
intention was to keep them and sell the 50ASls owing to the aesthetics.
I therefore would agree with you from first-hand experience that the 50
'minces' the 20; speaking to ATC about this, Kevin Butlin said that the
20 in all guises (although good) lacks the hallmark midrange dome that
really make the 50 (and 100s, 70s etc) so good. Interestingly, he was
also very anti-integrating an active sub with the 20TSls, which is what
i was (amd am still) thinking of doing.
>
> Yes, I've seen you mention the 518 before (apparently the preamp stage
> of the DAX Decade is based on it); I also seem to remember reading some
> articles about it in HFN/RR and HFW a while back. Am I right in
> assuming it converts analogue inputs to digital?
No; you have to buy a separate Analogue to Digital convertor. For
someone all-digital like myself this is no loss. If you have vinyl,
reports [I do not have first-hand experience) suggest that the losses
from digitising are audible.
so, it is a digital to digital precessor/attenuator.
Presumably the volume
> control also operates in the digital domain? I am quite willing to
> investigate alternatives such as this (as well as the Decade and the
> Chord DSC1500E),
the Chord (IFAIK) has an analogue volume control. Aside from loosing
one cable connection (which is probably a good thing) there is little
benefit in having the DAC and the pre in one box in this case.
The beauty of the Meridian is its relatively low cost, and the fact that
you can then retain the DAX2 which is superb, without paying the
trade-up/sell-up penalty. It'd probably be worth it just for
word-length (16 to 20/22 bit) and dither functions in your set-up, let
alone as a digital pre.
> >
> > 'Referencing' the Mana under the stand would also probably be a
> > fantastically good £200 investment. I am currently on 'Phase 3' in
> Mana
> > jargon (stand plus two soundstages). They are hyped; they are worthy
> of
> > the hype (is that a contradiction in terms?!).
>
> I cannot agree more. Due to an impending house move I am staring
> impoverishment in the face, so this will almost certainly be the only
> upgrade for the foreseeable future. The most cost-effective step Mana-
> wise now appears to be a Sound Stage under the stand, according to
> other Mana users (yourself included!) I agree that they are hyped, but
> as you say the hype is justified, and one area where the dimishing
> returns law does not apply.
I am, as I said before, on 'phase 3', but will go to 'phase four' (three
soundstages plus a rack) quite soon; I'll let you know of my
experiences.
> >
> > I also understand your point re: the Act Ones. Did you ever try the
> > *active* 50s/100s by the way?
>
> Yes - but again in different circumstances. There's something in the
> bass region (also heard with the passives) which I can't quite put my
> finger on - a sort of 'wooden' quality. Very, very slight but
> noticeable.
I know that Billy Woodman would not agree with me on this, but having a
slate stand fabricated really helped reduce what I thought was a slight
midbass colouration. Of course, I have not A/Bed properly owing to
weight/practicality, but these are my impressions. I have been in touch
with another long-term 50ASl user who, quote 'could have kicked myself
for not having ordered the Slate Audio stands years ago.' I had mine
fabricated locally for circa £200.
In my opinion, the WB also images slightly
> better, and sounds a tad more refined without any loss of resolution.
I'd agree about the imaging; this is not the 50s strongest suit, and it
is important to me. i'm sure that the wide baffle with its sharp
(non-rounded) edges (I don't use the grills) which might cause
diffraction don't help.
>
> I look forward to your comments - have you had any experience with
> mains conditioners?
>
ah, yes.
I have ended up with Kimber mains throughout, which i made myself out of
8TC by sticking an earth lead through the middle, which is by and large
what 8TCM is. I had 8TC from my Audiolab/105.3 pre-VDH Revelation days;
at the time, noone wanted to buy it. I rang Russ Andrews, and he
described how 8TC and 8TCM are very similar, and how to convert the
leads. Since it would be illegal for me to sell this stuff (the wire is
not colour-coded correctly; I made it up myself), I am ill inclined to
try soemthing else, as I'd have to bin my 8TCM.
I have heard very good reports about the Blackcurrant cables that are
distributed by Alistair Gardner at Signals hi-fi. The designer is an
academic physicist who cannot understand theoretically why they work
(they shouldn't), but work they do (to his and many happy customers'
ears). I will definately try this option (it is cheap!) at some point.
I used to use two large 3kva isolating transformers in my old flat to
good effect; they actually *degraded* the sound in my current flat, and
I thus sold them. The guy who bought them off me found them absolutely
revelatory - in the context of a £15k OTL/ESL system. Maybe the Pure
Power would be worth a try in your system post-cashflow crisis!
cheerio
salman