Douglas Britten G3KFL

[Graham.]

Who remembers the Douglas Britten case?
His trial was when I was a young SWL, a couple of years before I got
my licence, I remember it was quite a big story at the time and it was
said that Amateur Radio was not directly used to pass secrets, and I
thought "yeah, right".

I revisited the case on the web recently and had to laugh at a bit of
the story I did not know.

The initial approach by the Russians was to ask him to photograph the
manuals for the T1154 & R1155 at a time when the Army surplus shops
were full of them. The manuals still had a "secret" stamp so still a
OSA matter.

https://www.kissack.co.uk/index.php?page=britten-arrested-for-spying

http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/russian-spies-in-cold-war-lincolnshire

My friend was in the RAF and worked at Digby and was a newly licensed
Amateur at the time, I must ask him what the attitude of the RAF was
to that.

As for Britten, I wonder if he's still alive?

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[A. non Eyemouse]

On 20/08/2018 11:46, Graham. wrote:
> Who remembers the Douglas Britten case?
> His trial was when I was a young SWL, a couple of years before I got
> my licence, I remember it was quite a big story at the time and it was
> said that Amateur Radio was not directly used to pass secrets, and I
> thought "yeah, right".
>

When I was first licenced all you got from any Soviet (or eastern bloc)
QSO was 59, qsl via box 88 Moscow - so anything else would no doubt have
raised suspicion on either side.

> I revisited the case on the web recently and had to laugh at a bit of
> the story I did not know.
>
> The initial approach by the Russians was to ask him to photograph the
> manuals for the T1154 & R1155 at a time when the Army surplus shops
> were full of them. The manuals still had a "secret" stamp so still a
> OSA matter.
>
> https://www.kissack.co.uk/index.php?page=britten-arrested-for-spying
>
> http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/russian-spies-in-cold-war-lincolnshire
>
> My friend was in the RAF and worked at Digby and was a newly licensed
> Amateur at the time, I must ask him what the attitude of the RAF was
> to that.
>
> As for Britten, I wonder if he's still alive?
>

In 1964 he is listed as Cpl. D. R. Britten (Abroad). I wonder which
part of "abroad" - maybe W. Germany?

--
Mouse.
Where Morse meets House.

[Graham.]

I think "Abroad" was often a euphemism for posted servicemen. Quite
probably recommended by the MOD.

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[brian]

In message <ms5lnddei37ftkrmr...@4ax.com>, Graham.
<graham...@mail.com> writes

He died in 1990

http://family.hoseasons.co.nz/getperson.php?personID=I6549&tree=HOS1

Brian
--
Brian Howie

[Brian Reay]

In one of the various books I've read over the years related to the
'Cold War', Radio, etc. the story I recall is that he was approached in
the Science Museum, addressed by his callsign, as asked if he could
obtain an R1155. At the time, these were readily available in places
like Lisle street. Of course, how he was really recruited may not have
yet been released.

He was, of course, a G3. So much for Morse and 'moral fibre'. There was
also the G3 involved in the major fraud- I can't recall his callsign.



--


Remarkable Coincidences:
The Stock Market Crashes of 1929 and 2008 happened on the same
date in October. In Oct 1907, a run on the Knickerbocker Trust
Company led to the Great Depression.

[Paul Cummins]

In article <plesiq$i18$2...@dont-email.me>, no...@m.com (Brian Reay) wrote:

> There was
> also the G3 involved in the major fraud- I can't recall his
> callsign.

Who was the M3 that these comments relate to?

he is not a very good teacher and mumbles alot.

he is harsh and doesnt teach you anything

he is strict and does sometimes get very angry

hes mean and hold grudges

moody and needs to lose weight though plus hes from up north

Too tough on uniform rules. "Don't come into my classroom looking like
that!"

A very bad teacher, I am a new Year 7 and he made half of the class get a
full detention for being 2 minutes late.

he is very unclear at teaching.



--
Are you an Inadequate Kentish Defective?
Do you need help shuffling off your mortal coil?
http://www.dignitas.ch might be willing to help.
Don't delay, call them today - trade in on Smart Car offered.

[Graham.]

>In article <plesiq$i18$2...@dont-email.me>, no...@m.com (Brian Reay) wrote:
>
>> There was
>> also the G3 involved in the major fraud- I can't recall his
>> callsign.
>
>Who was the M3 that these comments relate to?
>
>he is not a very good teacher and mumbles alot.
>
>he is harsh and doesnt teach you anything
>
>he is strict and does sometimes get very angry
>
>hes mean and hold grudges
>
>moody and needs to lose weight though plus hes from up north
>
>Too tough on uniform rules. "Don't come into my classroom looking like
>that!"
>
>A very bad teacher, I am a new Year 7 and he made half of the class get a
>full detention for being 2 minutes late.
>
>he is very unclear at teaching.

Credit where it's due Paul; credit where it's due.

https://uk.ratemyteachers.com/brian-reay/22189-t
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[Graham.]

Digby and Cyprus. The original Lincolnshire Poacher.

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[brian]

In message <plesiq$i18$2...@dont-email.me>, Brian Reay <no...@m.com> writes

>On 20/08/18 11:46, Graham. wrote:
>> Who remembers the Douglas Britten case?
>> His trial was when I was a young SWL, a couple of years before I got
>> my licence, I remember it was quite a big story at the time and it was
>> said that Amateur Radio was not directly used to pass secrets, and I
>> thought "yeah, right".
>> I revisited the case on the web recently and had to laugh at a bit
>>of
>> the story I did not know.
>> The initial approach by the Russians was to ask him to photograph
>>the
>> manuals for the T1154 & R1155 at a time when the Army surplus shops
>> were full of them. The manuals still had a "secret" stamp so still a
>> OSA matter.
>> https://www.kissack.co.uk/index.php?page=britten-arrested-for-spying
>>
>>http://www.rodcollins.com/wordpress/russian-spies-in-cold-war-lincolnsh
>>

>> My friend was in the RAF and worked at Digby and was a newly
>>licensed
>> Amateur at the time, I must ask him what the attitude of the RAF was
>> to that.
>> As for Britten, I wonder if he's still alive?
>>
>
>In one of the various books I've read over the years related to the
>'Cold War', Radio, etc. the story I recall is that he was approached in
>the Science Museum, addressed by his callsign, as asked if he could
>obtain an R1155. At the time, these were readily available in places
>like Lisle street. Of course, how he was really recruited may not have
>yet been released.
>
>He was, of course, a G3. So much for Morse and 'moral fibre'. There was
>also the G3 involved in the major fraud- I can't recall his callsign.

Emil Savundra G3SDN .


Being no stranger to bribery and corruption, he may well have " brown
enveloped" his Morse test. Maybe that's unfair.

http://richardlattymegaonemusic.com/ham_radio_celebrity__calls/

Nowadays he;'d have got a knighthood and be invited to join the board of
an investment bank.

Brian

--
Brian Howie

[Paul Cummins]

In article <7bulnd9okfi4auuin...@4ax.com>,

graham...@mail.com (Graham.) wrote:

> Credit where it's due Paul; credit where it's due.

The day he reciprocates.

[Graham.]

>In article <7bulnd9okfi4auuin...@4ax.com>,
>graham...@mail.com (Graham.) wrote:
>
>> Credit where it's due Paul; credit where it's due.
>
>The day he reciprocates.

You both give as good as you get.

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[Rambo]

On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 21:06 +0100 (BST), agree2...@spam.vlaad.co.uk
(Paul Cummins) wrote:

>In article <7bulnd9okfi4auuin...@4ax.com>,
>graham...@mail.com (Graham.) wrote:
>
>> Credit where it's due Paul; credit where it's due.
>
>The day he reciprocates.

That'll be a frosty day in Hell...

[Stephen Thomas Troll]

Hambozo, or a Full Licence day in certain parts of Derby, Hambozo.


Hambozo, Thanks, Hambozo.

[Brian Reay]

On 20/08/2018 20:10, brian wrote:
>
> Emil Savundra G3SDN .
>

Another one fond the title Dr it seems.

What is it with people who can't actually obtain qualifications
legitimately that they feel the need to use then under false pretences,
invent grandiose and misleading job titles for themselves, falsely claim
qualifications, or just generally go into 'Walter Mitty mode'?

Don't they know that, sooner or later, the truth will come out?
Sometimes in a dramatic fashion.

Getting a clean sheet is important:


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/brentfords-buyer-insists-on-a-clean-sheet-1589944.html

;-)

[Spike]

On 20/08/2018 17:08, Brian Reay wrote:

> In one of the various books I've read over the years related to the

> 'Cold War', Radio, etc. the story I recall is that he [Douglas Britten] was

> approached in the Science Museum, addressed by his callsign, as
> asked if he could obtain an R1155. At the time, these were readily available
> in places like Lisle street. Of course, how he was really recruited may
> not have yet been released.

> He was, of course, a G3. So much for Morse and 'moral fibre'. There was
> also the G3 involved in the major fraud- I can't recall his callsign.

More bluffing and blustering, with a reductio ad absurdum for good measure.

And you cripple your own argument with the phrase you used: "...Of
course, how he was really recruited may not have yet been released", so
you are piling supposition upon supposition as you go along. As a
teacher might have said: Disappointing. Must try harder.

Heaven forfend that it is all part of an attention seeking, spiral
decline by of one of
life's monumental under achievers.


--
Spike

"RSGBTech is meant for everyone!", trumpets the RSGB. Moderated
'to keep the questions on topic', an admissions policy imposes a pre-vet
for 'known' 'trouble' 'maker(s).' None of this is mentioned by the RSGB,
see http://rsgb.org/main/internet-guidelines/ for fewer details about this.
The RSGB should be ashamed to be associated with the group,
and to stop claiming what is in fact not the case.

[Brian Reay]

On 21/08/18 09:39, Spike wrote:
> On 20/08/2018 17:08, Brian Reay wrote:
>
>> In one of the various books I've read over the years related to the
>> 'Cold War', Radio, etc. the story I recall is that he [Douglas Britten] was
>> approached in the Science Museum, addressed by his callsign, as
>> asked if he could obtain an R1155. At the time, these were readily available
>> in places like Lisle street. Of course, how he was really recruited may
>> not have yet been released.
>
>> He was, of course, a G3. So much for Morse and 'moral fibre'. There was
>> also the G3 involved in the major fraud- I can't recall his callsign.
>
> More bluffing and blustering, with a reductio ad absurdum for good measure.
>
> And you cripple your own argument with the phrase you used: "...Of
> course, how he was really recruited may not have yet been released", so
> you are piling supposition upon supposition as you go along.

ROTFL, how soon you've forgotten your 'description' of Dr Kelly's
interview after he was accused of 'speaking out of turn' to a
journalist- complete with details of his (supposedly) reaching into his
briefcase.

Of course, you would want to sweep that 'phase' under the table, it
marked your 'transition' into a wannabe Mycroft Holmes/007/super
agent/..... , complete with John Bull printing set Diplomatic Passport,
etc.


However, returning to the G3RKL story. Do really believe someone would
believe the Russians didn't know the R1155 (or T1154 perhaps) was
readily available in places like Lisle St? 19 sets, of a similar
vintage, were manufactured with Russian markings and shipped to Russia
during WW2. Some ended up on the UK surplus market. I knew this as a
teenager. It is most unlikely G3RKL didn't. It won't be a surprise if
R1155/T1154s were also supplied as part of the West's support to Russia.

[A. non Eyemouse]

On 21/08/2018 10:42, Brian Reay wrote:

<snip>

> However, returning to the G3RKL story. Do really believe someone would
> believe the Russians didn't know the R1155 (or T1154 perhaps) was
> readily available in places like Lisle St?  19 sets, of a similar
> vintage, were manufactured with Russian markings and shipped to Russia
> during WW2. Some ended up on the UK surplus market. I knew this as a
> teenager. It is most unlikely G3RKL didn't. It won't be a surprise if
> R1155/T1154s were also supplied as part of the West's support to Russia.
>

What's Dr. Tony Whitaker got to do with this thread?

[Brian Reay]

Good point. G3KFL Story.

[Rambo]

On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 23:56:31 +0100, Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:

>On 20/08/2018 20:10, brian wrote:
>>
>> Emil Savundra G3SDN .
>>
>
>Another one fond the title Dr it seems.
>
>What is it with people who can't actually obtain qualifications
>legitimately that they feel the need to use then under false pretences,
>invent grandiose and misleading job titles for themselves, falsely claim
>qualifications, or just generally go into 'Walter Mitty mode'?
>
>Don't they know that, sooner or later, the truth will come out?
>Sometimes in a dramatic fashion.
>
>Getting a clean sheet is important:
>
>
>https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/brentfords-buyer-insists-on-a-clean-sheet-1589944.html
>
>;-)

Why.... have you (to use one of you chum's favourite phrases) "shat
the bed"?

[Gareth's Downstairs Computer]

Perhaps an exemplar of a grandiose false pretence is the passing off a
Yank extra class licence when the 12 WPM and 5 WPM Morse tests were
never passed, not to mention a private pilot's licence?

Oops. Forgot not topost again!

[Graham.]

>
>However, returning to the G3RKL story. Do really believe someone would
>believe the Russians didn't know the R1155 (or T1154 perhaps) was
>readily available in places like Lisle St? 19 sets, of a similar
>vintage, were manufactured with Russian markings and shipped to Russia
>during WW2. Some ended up on the UK surplus market. I knew this as a
>teenager. It is most unlikely G3RKL didn't. It won't be a surprise if
>R1155/T1154s were also supplied as part of the West's support to Russia.

Some sources have him handing over the actual boat-anchors, but others
say it was the manuals, or photographs thereof. The manuals he had
access to were not de-classified (that much I can believe), so I
suppose it was risky enough to prove his loyalty for his first job.

The real answer we will never know, but possibly lies with the fact he
fully cooperated once he was caught. Perhaps deals were done to
substitute some innocuous equipment for the really secret stuff he
passed over so as to keep it out of the courtroom.
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

On 20/08/2018 18:15, Paul Cummins wrote:
> In article <plesiq$i18$2...@dont-email.me>, no...@m.com (Brian Reay) wrote:
>
>> There was
>> also the G3 involved in the major fraud- I can't recall his
>> callsign.
>
> Who was the M3 that these comments relate to?
>
> he is not a very good teacher and mumbles alot.
>
> he is harsh and doesnt teach you anything
>
> he is strict and does sometimes get very angry
>
> hes mean and hold grudges
>
> moody and needs to lose weight though plus hes from up north
>
> Too tough on uniform rules. "Don't come into my classroom looking like
> that!"
>
> A very bad teacher, I am a new Year 7 and he made half of the class get a
> full detention for being 2 minutes late.
>
> he is very unclear at teaching.
>
>
>

shocking

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

On 21/08/2018 10:42, Brian Reay wrote:

I had a rusky one.....

[Brian Reay]

On 21/08/2018 21:14, Graham. wrote:
>
>>
>> However, returning to the G3KFL story. Do really believe someone would

>> believe the Russians didn't know the R1155 (or T1154 perhaps) was
>> readily available in places like Lisle St? 19 sets, of a similar
>> vintage, were manufactured with Russian markings and shipped to Russia
>> during WW2. Some ended up on the UK surplus market. I knew this as a

>> teenager. It is most unlikely G3KFL didn't. It won't be a surprise if

>> R1155/T1154s were also supplied as part of the West's support to Russia.
>
>
> Some sources have him handing over the actual boat-anchors, but others
> say it was the manuals, or photographs thereof. The manuals he had
> access to were not de-classified (that much I can believe), so I
> suppose it was risky enough to prove his loyalty for his first job.
>

It seems a bit unlikely he would even need to use his 'work contacts' to
get R1155/T1154 manuals, they were around on the surplus market.

While some parts of the RAF etc may still have been using such old kit,
I rather doubt the specialist areas Britten worked in were- assuming he
even got that close to a radio (rather than simply decoding, remote
operating etc). By 1968, the 1155 was already way past its sell by
date. (I believe the Shackleton was the last a/c to use them but even
that ended by '68.)

> The real answer we will never know, but possibly lies with the fact he
> fully cooperated once he was caught. Perhaps deals were done to
> substitute some innocuous equipment for the really secret stuff he
> passed over so as to keep it out of the courtroom.
>

Certainly the stories as published don't quite ring true. Of course, at
the time people tended to be more prepared to believe such simple
explanations.

The story behind the 'escape' of Philby after he'd been confronted
doesn't really ring true. He'd been suspected several times, been
cleared, etc, finally 'outed' and a public trial- or even a closed one-
would have raised too many questions.

As for Blake's escape......

[Brian Reay]

Ssh, Spike will tell his chums at MI5 and you will be water boarded
until you hand over the missing pages from the manual ;-)

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

yes it came with a manual....nice it was too....brown cover as I
remember...

[Spike]

On 21/08/2018 09:42, Brian Reay wrote:
> On 21/08/18 09:39, Spike wrote:
>> On 20/08/2018 17:08, Brian Reay wrote:

>>> In one of the various books I've read over the years related to the
>>> 'Cold War', Radio, etc. the story I recall is that he [Douglas Britten] was
>>> approached in the Science Museum, addressed by his callsign, as
>>> asked if he could obtain an R1155. At the time, these were readily available
>>> in places like Lisle street. Of course, how he was really recruited may
>>> not have yet been released.

>>> He was, of course, a G3. So much for Morse and 'moral fibre'. There was
>>> also the G3 involved in the major fraud- I can't recall his callsign.

>> More bluffing and blustering, with a reductio ad absurdum for good measure.

>> And you cripple your own argument with the phrase you used: "...Of
>> course, how he was really recruited may not have yet been released", so
>> you are piling supposition upon supposition as you go along.

> ROTFL, how soon you've forgotten your 'description' of Dr Kelly's
> interview after he was accused of 'speaking out of turn' to a
> journalist- complete with details of his (supposedly) reaching into his
> briefcase.

People who turn up for a disciplinary hearing without bringing the
appropriate paperwork with them tend to find themselves looking for a
new career.

> Of course, you would want to sweep that 'phase' under the table, it
> marked your 'transition' into a wannabe Mycroft Holmes/007/super
> agent/..... , complete with John Bull printing set Diplomatic Passport,
> etc.

What a strange world you live in. It seems to be one where you are
constantly haunted by visions of those who did better than you. Have you
tried growing up?

> However, returning to the G3RKL story. Do really believe someone would
> believe the Russians didn't know the R1155 (or T1154 perhaps) was
> readily available in places like Lisle St? 19 sets, of a similar
> vintage, were manufactured with Russian markings and shipped to Russia
> during WW2. Some ended up on the UK surplus market. I knew this as a
> teenager. It is most unlikely G3RKL didn't. It won't be a surprise if
> R1155/T1154s were also supplied as part of the West's support to Russia.

Our allies were supplied with full technical details of all our military
equipment. We even sent all the drawings, etc for Barnes Wallis'
bouncing bomb to the Russians.

[Brian Reay]

On 22/08/2018 09:47, Spike wrote:
> On 21/08/2018 09:42, Brian Reay wrote:
>> On 21/08/18 09:39, Spike wrote:
>>> On 20/08/2018 17:08, Brian Reay wrote:
>
>>>> In one of the various books I've read over the years related to the
>>>> 'Cold War', Radio, etc. the story I recall is that he [Douglas Britten] was
>>>> approached in the Science Museum, addressed by his callsign, as
>>>> asked if he could obtain an R1155. At the time, these were readily available
>>>> in places like Lisle street. Of course, how he was really recruited may
>>>> not have yet been released.
>
>>>> He was, of course, a G3. So much for Morse and 'moral fibre'. There was
>>>> also the G3 involved in the major fraud- I can't recall his callsign.
>
>>> More bluffing and blustering, with a reductio ad absurdum for good measure.
>
>>> And you cripple your own argument with the phrase you used: "...Of
>>> course, how he was really recruited may not have yet been released", so
>>> you are piling supposition upon supposition as you go along.
>
>> ROTFL, how soon you've forgotten your 'description' of Dr Kelly's
>> interview after he was accused of 'speaking out of turn' to a
>> journalist- complete with details of his (supposedly) reaching into his
>> briefcase.
>
> People who turn up for a disciplinary hearing without bringing the
> appropriate paperwork with them tend to find themselves looking for a
> new career.

Is that the voice of experience?

[Spike]

I was going to suggest the same thing to you, but was too polite to do so.

[Ian Jackson]

In message <fu4m96...@mid.individual.net>, Spike
<Aero....@mail.invalid> writes

Getting him to supply something already in free circulation (and
therefore doing nothing illegal) was probably just a test - and a
prelude to then asking for information which was increasingly more
dodgy. [I believe this is a common form of grooming for spies etc.]
>
>

--
Ian

[Brian Reay]

That would, on the face of it, seem plausible. Whether it is actually
used, who knows.

As for Spike's claim that we shared full details of all our military kit
with our allies, that must rank as one of his stupidest claims ever.




--
https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

https://www.jobcentreguide.org/claiming-benefits/30/reporting-benefit-fraud

[Brian Reay]

On 23/08/2018 15:18, Brian Morrison wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 14:03:13 +0100
> Brian Reay wrote:
>
>> As for Spike's claim that we shared full details of all our military
>> kit with our allies, that must rank as one of his stupidest claims
>> ever.
>

> The post war Labour government handed over a lot of technology to the
> Soviet Union, including the current jet engines of the time, the RR
> Nene engine became the VK750 with a 50% thrust increase and that was
> what made the Mig 15 such a tough opponent.
>

No one disputes some data was handed over, just that full details of all
our military kit was.

In particular, there is the infamous case of the 'kidnapped' radar which
had been set to Moscow under the care of UK personal. It was to be only
operated etc. by them but the Russians 'diverted it'.

[Brian Reay]

On 23/08/2018 15:39, Brian Morrison wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 15:25:22 +0100
> Brian Reay wrote:
>
>> In particular, there is the infamous case of the 'kidnapped' radar
>> which had been set to Moscow under the care of UK personal. It was to
>> be only operated etc. by them but the Russians 'diverted it'.
>

> There's a lot of Soviet/Russian kit in Nevada.
>
> The Israelis have been known to borrow kit parked on their air bases
> overnight.
>
> Makes a lot of sense.
>

I don't doubt it.

However, there is a difference between allies handing over details and
stealing them.

[Spike]

On 23/08/2018 13:03, Brian Reay wrote:
> On 23/08/2018 13:41, Ian Jackson wrote:

>> In message <fu4m96...@mid.individual.net>, Spike writes

>> Getting him to supply something already in free circulation (and
>> therefore doing nothing illegal) was probably just a test - and a
>> prelude to then asking for information which was increasingly more
>> dodgy. [I believe this is a common form of grooming for spies etc.]

> That would, on the face of it, seem plausible. Whether it is actually
> used, who knows.

> As for Spike's claim that we shared full details of all our military kit
> with our allies, that must rank as one of his stupidest claims ever.

Ah, yet another vapourclaim from a sore loser.

[Spike]

On 23/08/2018 14:56, Brian Reay wrote:
> On 23/08/2018 15:39, Brian Morrison wrote:
>> Brian Reay wrote:

>>> In particular, there is the infamous case of the 'kidnapped' radar
>>> which had been set to Moscow under the care of UK personal. It was to
>>> be only operated etc. by them but the Russians 'diverted it'.

>> There's a lot of Soviet/Russian kit in Nevada.

>> The Israelis have been known to borrow kit parked on their air bases
>> overnight.

>> Makes a lot of sense.

> I don't doubt it.

> However, there is a difference between allies handing over details and
> stealing them.

<groan>

Due to what is obviously your unfamiliarity with the area, you clearly
haven't considered the possibility of such behaviour being an easy way
to transfer technology without having to go through the balls-aching
export licensing system.

[Brian Reay]

On 23/08/2018 17:00, Spike wrote:
> On 23/08/2018 14:56, Brian Reay wrote:
>> On 23/08/2018 15:39, Brian Morrison wrote:
>>> Brian Reay wrote:
>
>>>> In particular, there is the infamous case of the 'kidnapped' radar
>>>> which had been set to Moscow under the care of UK personal. It was to
>>>> be only operated etc. by them but the Russians 'diverted it'.
>
>>> There's a lot of Soviet/Russian kit in Nevada.
>
>>> The Israelis have been known to borrow kit parked on their air bases
>>> overnight.
>
>>> Makes a lot of sense.
>
>> I don't doubt it.
>
>> However, there is a difference between allies handing over details and
>> stealing them.
>
> <groan>
>
> Due to what is obviously your unfamiliarity with the area, you clearly
> haven't considered the possibility of such behaviour being an easy way
> to transfer technology without having to go through the balls-aching
> export licensing system.
>
>

ROTFL.

Even by your standards, that is stupid beyond belief.

[Spike]

On 23/08/2018 16:08, Brian Reay wrote:
> On 23/08/2018 17:00, Spike wrote:
>> On 23/08/2018 14:56, Brian Reay wrote:
>>> On 23/08/2018 15:39, Brian Morrison wrote:
>>>> Brian Reay wrote:

>>>>> In particular, there is the infamous case of the 'kidnapped' radar
>>>>> which had been set to Moscow under the care of UK personal. It was to
>>>>> be only operated etc. by them but the Russians 'diverted it'.

>>>> There's a lot of Soviet/Russian kit in Nevada.

>>>> The Israelis have been known to borrow kit parked on their air bases
>>>> overnight.

>>>> Makes a lot of sense.

>>> I don't doubt it.

>>> However, there is a difference between allies handing over details and
>>> stealing them.

>> <groan>

>> Due to what is obviously your unfamiliarity with the area, you clearly
>> haven't considered the possibility of such behaviour being an easy way
>> to transfer technology without having to go through the balls-aching
>> export licensing system.

> ROTFL.

> Even by your standards, that is stupid beyond belief.

I think the depth and breadth of your school-teacher experience is well
and truly on display.

Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach.

[Rambo]

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 16:20:25 +0000, Spike <Aero....@mail.invalid>
wrote:

Gawd... Remember the rigmarole about travel to communist counties,
with that annual statement we had to sign.

Wonder if Reay ever signed the official secrets act?

[Rambo]

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 17:08:31 +0100, Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:

>On 23/08/2018 17:00, Spike wrote:
>> On 23/08/2018 14:56, Brian Reay wrote:
>>> On 23/08/2018 15:39, Brian Morrison wrote:
>>>> Brian Reay wrote:
>>
>>>>> In particular, there is the infamous case of the 'kidnapped' radar
>>>>> which had been set to Moscow under the care of UK personal. It was to
>>>>> be only operated etc. by them but the Russians 'diverted it'.
>>
>>>> There's a lot of Soviet/Russian kit in Nevada.
>>
>>>> The Israelis have been known to borrow kit parked on their air bases
>>>> overnight.
>>
>>>> Makes a lot of sense.
>>
>>> I don't doubt it.
>>
>>> However, there is a difference between allies handing over details and
>>> stealing them.
>>
>> <groan>
>>
>> Due to what is obviously your unfamiliarity with the area, you clearly
>> haven't considered the possibility of such behaviour being an easy way
>> to transfer technology without having to go through the balls-aching
>> export licensing system.
>>
>>
>
>ROTFL.
>
>Even by your standards, that is stupid beyond belief.

Certanly with regard to WW2 he is quite correct, military equipment in
use was duplicated between the allies.

[brian]

In message <ekqtnddu325ac1lgt...@4ax.com>, Rambo
<Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes

>Wonder if Reay ever signed the official secrets act?
>

I had to sign it as a temporary Xmas postie.

Brian
--
Brian Howie

[Rambo]

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:44:57 +0100, brian <nos...@b-howie.co.uk>
wrote:

I think all the GPO staff had to back then..............

[Ian Jackson]

In message <up1und9bhhgghsgh6...@4ax.com>, Rambo
<Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes

Forestry Commission workers too. [Probably all government departments.]
I guess it wouldn't do to let our enemies know how much acreage of
pit-props we were producing. There is a certain logic to this.
--
Ian

[Rambo]

Thing is.... it's for life.....

[Ian Jackson]

In message <ip5unddf450fpa81f...@4ax.com>, Rambo

<Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes
>On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 21:18:11 +0100, Ian Jackson
><ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <up1und9bhhgghsgh6...@4ax.com>, Rambo
>><Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes
>>>On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:44:57 +0100, brian <nos...@b-howie.co.uk>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <ekqtnddu325ac1lgt...@4ax.com>, Rambo
>>>><Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes
>>>>>Wonder if Reay ever signed the official secrets act?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I had to sign it as a temporary Xmas postie.
>>>>
>>>>Brian
>>>
>>>I think all the GPO staff had to back then..............
>>
>>Forestry Commission workers too. [Probably all government departments.]
>>I guess it wouldn't do to let our enemies know how much acreage of
>>pit-props we were producing. There is a certain logic to this.
>
>Thing is.... it's for life.....

What's for life?
--
Ian

[Rambo]

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 22:27:18 +0100, Ian Jackson

<ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <ip5unddf450fpa81f...@4ax.com>, Rambo
><Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes
>>On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 21:18:11 +0100, Ian Jackson
>><ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>In message <up1und9bhhgghsgh6...@4ax.com>, Rambo
>>><Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes
>>>>On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:44:57 +0100, brian <nos...@b-howie.co.uk>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In message <ekqtnddu325ac1lgt...@4ax.com>, Rambo
>>>>><Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes
>>>>>>Wonder if Reay ever signed the official secrets act?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I had to sign it as a temporary Xmas postie.
>>>>>
>>>>>Brian
>>>>
>>>>I think all the GPO staff had to back then..............
>>>
>>>Forestry Commission workers too. [Probably all government departments.]
>>>I guess it wouldn't do to let our enemies know how much acreage of
>>>pit-props we were producing. There is a certain logic to this.
>>
>>Thing is.... it's for life.....
>
>What's for life?

You are bound by it till one snuffs it.

[Rambo]

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 22:27:18 +0100, Ian Jackson

[Rambo]

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 22:29:17 +0100, Rambo <Ra...@thisaintreal.rog>
wrote:

The official secrets act I meant to say.

[Bernie]

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 22:27:18 +0100

Ian Jackson <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <ip5unddf450fpa81f...@4ax.com>, Rambo
> <Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes
> >On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 21:18:11 +0100, Ian Jackson
> ><ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >>In message <up1und9bhhgghsgh6...@4ax.com>, Rambo
> >><Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes
> >>>On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:44:57 +0100, brian <nos...@b-howie.co.uk>
> >>>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>In message <ekqtnddu325ac1lgt...@4ax.com>, Rambo
> >>>><Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes
> >>>>>Wonder if Reay ever signed the official secrets act?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>I had to sign it as a temporary Xmas postie.
> >>>>
> >>>>Brian
> >>>
> >>>I think all the GPO staff had to back then..............
> >>
> >>Forestry Commission workers too. [Probably all government
> >>departments.] I guess it wouldn't do to let our enemies know how
> >>much acreage of pit-props we were producing. There is a certain
> >>logic to this.
> >
> >Thing is.... it's for life.....
>
> What's for life?

A dog.

Burt's had problems with catching fleas from his, but I've
always found their sleep kicking to be more of an issue
.

[Brian Howie]

On 23/08/2018 22:37, Bernie wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 22:27:18 +0100
> Ian Jackson <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <ip5unddf450fpa81f...@4ax.com>, Rambo
>> <Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes
>>> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 21:18:11 +0100, Ian Jackson
>>> <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <up1und9bhhgghsgh6...@4ax.com>, Rambo
>>>> <Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes
>>>>> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:44:57 +0100, brian <nos...@b-howie.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <ekqtnddu325ac1lgt...@4ax.com>, Rambo
>>>>>> <Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes
>>>>>>> Wonder if Reay ever signed the official secrets act?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had to sign it as a temporary Xmas postie.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brian
>>>>>
>>>>> I think all the GPO staff had to back then..............
>>>>
>>>> Forestry Commission workers too. [Probably all government
>>>> departments.] I guess it wouldn't do to let our enemies know how
>>>> much acreage of pit-props we were producing. There is a certain
>>>> logic to this.
>>>
>>> Thing is.... it's for life.....
>>
>> What's for life?
>
>
> A dog.

The OSA is not just for Xmas.

Brian

--
Brian

[Ian Jackson]

In message <7n9undd1b5dl6rohs...@4ax.com>, Rambo

<Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes
>On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 22:27:18 +0100, Ian Jackson
><ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <ip5unddf450fpa81f...@4ax.com>, Rambo
>><Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes
>>>On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 21:18:11 +0100, Ian Jackson
>>><ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <up1und9bhhgghsgh6...@4ax.com>, Rambo
>>>><Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes
>>>>>On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:44:57 +0100, brian <nos...@b-howie.co.uk>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>In message <ekqtnddu325ac1lgt...@4ax.com>, Rambo
>>>>>><Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes
>>>>>>>Wonder if Reay ever signed the official secrets act?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I had to sign it as a temporary Xmas postie.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Brian
>>>>>
>>>>>I think all the GPO staff had to back then..............
>>>>
>>>>Forestry Commission workers too. [Probably all government departments.]
>>>>I guess it wouldn't do to let our enemies know how much acreage of
>>>>pit-props we were producing. There is a certain logic to this.
>>>
>>>Thing is.... it's for life.....
>>
>>What's for life?
>
>You are bound by it till one snuffs it.

It's never optional. Like all laws, you are bound by it from the moment
of your birth to the moment of your death. Ignorance of The Law is no
defence, and signing it simply ensures that you can't even think of
claiming ignorance of its existence.
--
Ian

[Paul Cummins]

In article <ekqtnddu325ac1lgt...@4ax.com>,

Ra...@thisaintreal.rog (Rambo) wrote:

> Wonder if Reay ever signed the official secrets act?

I remember the difficulties my mother had, in her Civil Service MOD role
after my visit to the Eastern Bloc in 1993, despite the fall of the wall
by then.

I still have a small piece of the Berlin Wall somewhere, from the first
legal demolition job I did.

--
Are you an Inadequate Kentish Defective?
Do you need help shuffling off your mortal coil?
http://www.dignitas.ch might be willing to help.
Don't delay, call them today - trade in on Smart Car offered.

[Brian Reay]

On 23/08/2018 22:37, Bernie wrote:

One of his chums had his taken away.

[Brian Reay]

Yet they still didn't trust you enough to tell you what a telegraph pole
is.........

[Rambo]

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 00:08:48 +0100, Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:

>On 23/08/2018 20:13, Rambo wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:44:57 +0100, brian <nos...@b-howie.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <ekqtnddu325ac1lgt...@4ax.com>, Rambo
>>> <Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes
>>>> Wonder if Reay ever signed the official secrets act?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I had to sign it as a temporary Xmas postie.
>>>
>>> Brian
>>
>> I think all the GPO staff had to back then..............
>>
>
>Yet they still didn't trust you enough to tell you what a telegraph pole
>is.........

You'll never know. Still making things up as you always do.

You sad individual....

[Brian Reay]

So you supposedly worked for BT but don't know what a telegraph pole is.
You've let the cat out of the bag Dumbo.

[Spike]

On 24/08/2018 06:15, Brian Reay wrote:
> On 24/08/2018 00:33, Rambo wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 00:08:48 +0100, Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:
>>> On 23/08/2018 20:13, Rambo wrote:

>>>> brian <nos...@b-howie.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> <Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes

>>>>>> Wonder if Reay ever signed the official secrets act?

>>>>> I had to sign it as a temporary Xmas postie.

>>>> I think all the GPO staff had to back then..............

>>> Yet they still didn't trust you enough to tell you what a telegraph pole
>>> is.........

>> You'll never know. Still making things up as you always do.

> So you supposedly worked for BT but don't know what a telegraph pole is.

> You've let the cat out of the bag Dumbo.

Do stop whining, it makes you look petty. Try Amateur Radio for a hobby
- it might broaden your mind.

[Spike]

On 23/08/2018 17:19, Rambo wrote:

> Wonder if Reay ever signed the official secrets act?

It doesn't matter, he's 'bound' by it anyway, and his 'Britten' posts
'prove' he knows about it so he can't even claim the 'ignorance' defence.

One wonders if he is aware of is the 'famous' case of the 1970s, where
it was 'held' that a collection of 'published' information fulfilled
the 'conditions' for the OSA to apply. I'll leave it to him to 'goggle'
the 'details'.

[Brian Reay]

On 24/08/2018 09:08, Spike wrote:
> On 23/08/2018 17:19, Rambo wrote:
>
>> Wonder if Reay ever signed the official secrets act?
>
> It doesn't matter, he's 'bound' by it anyway, and his 'Britten' posts
> 'prove' he knows about it so he can't even claim the 'ignorance' defence.
>
> One wonders if he is aware of is the 'famous' case of the 1970s, where
> it was 'held' that a collection of 'published' information fulfilled
> the 'conditions' for the OSA to apply. I'll leave it to him to 'goggle'
> the 'details'.

Spike, you are babbling, again....

[Gareth's Downstairs Computer]

On 23/08/2018 22:31, Rambo wrote:
>>>
>>> What's for life?
>
> The official secrets act I meant to say.
>

Under the regime of the spawn of the Norman Invaders
(which is tolerant of democracy in name only; MPs have
to swear allegiance to The Great Parasite of Windsor)
one becomes subject to all laws, independently of whether
or not one has put one's signature to a piece of monarchist
bog paper.

[Spike]

On 24/08/2018 08:33, Brian Reay wrote:
> On 24/08/2018 09:08, Spike wrote:
>> On 23/08/2018 17:19, Rambo wrote:

>>> Wonder if Reay ever signed the official secrets act?

>> It doesn't matter, he's 'bound' by it anyway, and his 'Britten' posts
>> 'prove' he knows about it so he can't even claim the 'ignorance' defence.

>> One wonders if he is aware of is the 'famous' case of the 1970s, where
>> it was 'held' that a collection of 'published' information fulfilled
>> the 'conditions' for the OSA to apply. I'll leave it to him to 'goggle'
>> the 'details'.

> Spike, you are babbling, again....

Just telling you what the law says...

[Gareth's Downstairs Computer]

On 24/08/2018 08:50, Spike wrote:
> On 24/08/2018 06:15, Brian Reay wrote:
>> On 24/08/2018 00:33, Rambo wrote:
>>> On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 00:08:48 +0100, Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:
>>>> On 23/08/2018 20:13, Rambo wrote:
>>>>> brian <nos...@b-howie.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> <Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes
>>>>>>> Wonder if Reay ever signed the official secrets act?
>>>>>> I had to sign it as a temporary Xmas postie.
>>>>> I think all the GPO staff had to back then..............
>>>> Yet they still didn't trust you enough to tell you what a telegraph pole
>>>> is.........
>>> You'll never know. Still making things up as you always do.
>> So you supposedly worked for BT but don't know what a telegraph pole is.
>> You've let the cat out of the bag Dumbo.
>
> Do stop whining, it makes you look petty. Try Amateur Radio for a hobby
> - it might broaden your mind.

+1

Q. What's the difference between M3OSN and a loser in the school
playground shouting insults at his betters?

A. No, I don't know either.

[Rambo]

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 07:15:49 +0100, Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:

>On 24/08/2018 00:33, Rambo wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 00:08:48 +0100, Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 23/08/2018 20:13, Rambo wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:44:57 +0100, brian <nos...@b-howie.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <ekqtnddu325ac1lgt...@4ax.com>, Rambo
>>>>> <Ra...@thisaintreal.rog> writes
>>>>>> Wonder if Reay ever signed the official secrets act?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I had to sign it as a temporary Xmas postie.
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>> I think all the GPO staff had to back then..............
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yet they still didn't trust you enough to tell you what a telegraph pole
>>> is.........
>>
>> You'll never know. Still making things up as you always do.
>
>So you supposedly worked for BT but don't know what a telegraph pole is.
> You've let the cat out of the bag Dumbo.

Tell me about telegraph poles then since you claim to know all about
them.

[Rambo]

I think Jim's nailed it, he's seriously mentally ill.

[Paul Cummins]

In article <plo7ql$cdk$2...@dont-email.me>, no...@m.com (Brian Reay) wrote:

> So you supposedly worked for BT but don't know what a telegraph
> pole is.

BT has never used telegraph poles. In the same way that DVLA has never
charged Road Tax.

Throughout the 1960s and 1970s the use of telegrams in the UK had dropped
significantly, with around 10 million sent annually in the mid-1960s.
Consequently, the *Post Office* took the decision in *1977* to abolish
the service.

British Telecom, company number 1800000 was incorporaed on *1 April 1984*
which means that BT NEVER operated a Telegraph service.

But then as a teacher you'd know this.

[Graham.]

>In article <plo7ql$cdk$2...@dont-email.me>, no...@m.com (Brian Reay) wrote:
>
>> So you supposedly worked for BT but don't know what a telegraph
>> pole is.
>
>BT has never used telegraph poles. In the same way that DVLA has never
>charged Road Tax.
>
>Throughout the 1960s and 1970s the use of telegrams in the UK had dropped
>significantly, with around 10 million sent annually in the mid-1960s.
>Consequently, the *Post Office* took the decision in *1977* to abolish
>the service.
>
>British Telecom, company number 1800000 was incorporaed on *1 April 1984*
>which means that BT NEVER operated a Telegraph service.
>
>But then as a teacher you'd know this.

I always call them telegraph poles, telephone pole sounds wrong. I
also occasionly see a film at my local cinema, even though no
celluloid is involved.

My GDO has no grid,

I take my car for an MOT

I could go on.
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[Gareth's Downstairs Computer]

On 24/08/2018 14:20, Graham. wrote:
>
> I could go on.

You do, rather, but you've a long way to go
before overaking M3OSN.

[Stephen Thomas Troll]

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 14:26:57 +0100

Gareth's Downstairs Computer
<headstone255.but.n...@yahoo.com> wrote:

GAreth, O H THE I R O N Y, GaReth.


Garruth, Diolch, AlUn.

[Brian Reay]

On 24/08/2018 14:20, Graham. wrote:

Indeed.

We've such poles in our road. Having a decent sized drive (the road is
narrow), when the BT/Open Reach people need to work on the one near us,
they sometimes ask if they can park on our drive 'while they work on the
telegraph pole'.
Obviously we don't mind, I've said they don't need to ask if we aren't
around but it seems they must get permission each time.





--
https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

https://www.jobcentreguide.org/claiming-benefits/30/reporting-benefit-fraud

[RETRO HAM]

"Graham." <graham...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:ih00odlk5khht1ldp...@4ax.com...

go on go on go on go on ...

[RETRO HAM]

"Brian Reay" <no...@m.com> wrote in message
news:plp1no$v2u$1...@dont-email.me...

yes your reputation precedes you ....

[Graham.]

>On 23/08/2018 17:19, Rambo wrote:
>
>> Wonder if Reay ever signed the official secrets act?
>
>It doesn't matter, he's 'bound' by it anyway, and his 'Britten' posts
>'prove' he knows about it so he can't even claim the 'ignorance' defence.
>
>One wonders if he is aware of is the 'famous' case of the 1970s, where
>it was 'held' that a collection of 'published' information fulfilled
>the 'conditions' for the OSA to apply. I'll leave it to him to 'goggle'
>the 'details'.

Too early for it to be this then

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spycatcher

which led me to this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_RAFTER
which would explain all the black helicopters buzzing my QTH when I
was an SWL
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[Graham.]

>On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 17:08:31 +0100, Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:
>
>>On 23/08/2018 17:00, Spike wrote:
>>> On 23/08/2018 14:56, Brian Reay wrote:
>>>> On 23/08/2018 15:39, Brian Morrison wrote:
>>>>> Brian Reay wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> In particular, there is the infamous case of the 'kidnapped' radar
>>>>>> which had been set to Moscow under the care of UK personal. It was to
>>>>>> be only operated etc. by them but the Russians 'diverted it'.
>>>
>>>>> There's a lot of Soviet/Russian kit in Nevada.
>>>
>>>>> The Israelis have been known to borrow kit parked on their air bases
>>>>> overnight.
>>>
>>>>> Makes a lot of sense.
>>>
>>>> I don't doubt it.
>>>
>>>> However, there is a difference between allies handing over details and
>>>> stealing them.
>>>
>>> <groan>
>>>
>>> Due to what is obviously your unfamiliarity with the area, you clearly
>>> haven't considered the possibility of such behaviour being an easy way
>>> to transfer technology without having to go through the balls-aching
>>> export licensing system.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>ROTFL.
>>
>>Even by your standards, that is stupid beyond belief.
>
>Certanly with regard to WW2 he is quite correct, military equipment in
>use was duplicated between the allies.

Most WS No 19 that I have seen carried Russian decals.
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[Brian Reay]

I've never seen other, ie besides the 19 set, British radios with
Russian dials but it wouldn't surprise me to learn others were supplied.
If nothing else, aircraft were supplied and, presumably, they had radios
installed. We simply got to see the 19 sets which were never shipped.

While other sets may well have been left over, perhaps there weren't
enough to make disposal economic etc, may be they just are so rare we've
not sen them. Without evidence it is just speculation.

Perhaps post WW2 Russian amateurs were able to buy surplus western built
radios, with Russian dials, supplied via the Arctic Convoys.

[Paul Cummins]

In article <ih00odlk5khht1ldp...@4ax.com>,

graham...@mail.com (Graham.) wrote:

> I always call them telegraph poles, telephone pole sounds wrong.

Openreach DP poles, apparently.

BT PLC has never provided a Telegraph/Telegram sevice.

The modern telephone poles are completely different to historic Telegraph
poles in terms of the way they work and distribute lines.

[Brian Reay]

On 25/08/18 10:36, Jeff wrote:

> On 24/08/2018 23:52, Paul Cummins wrote:
>> In article <ih00odlk5khht1ldp...@4ax.com>,
>> graham...@mail.com (Graham.) wrote:
>>
>>> I always call them telegraph poles, telephone pole sounds wrong.
>>
>> Openreach DP poles, apparently.
>>
>> BT PLC has never provided a Telegraph/Telegram sevice.
>>
>> The modern telephone poles are completely different to historic Telegraph
>> poles in terms of the way they work and distribute lines.
>>
>

> How can wooden poles holding up bits of wire be that different???
> The configuration of the wire may be different but the concept is
> identical.


Don't forget, the pole which started this diversion was already disused
in late 60s/early 70s. It, and a few others, had stood on an empty patch
of ground near where we lived (within a few hundred yds, if that). There
were often used as on end of a goal etc. by the local youngsters. A new
batch of houses and flats were built on the land and left in place. We
moved into one of the flats in mid 1968, shortly after they were
completed. Back then, people rarely had phones at home, at least not on
council estates.

There were other poles in odd places, another friend had one at the end
of their garden his mother used to tie her washing line to. I suspect
they'd been in place even before the original estate was built, I
suspect in the 1950s or so. Thinking about the geography, they may have
linked somewhere near the coast to perhaps Newcastle in the past,
possibly even a link from Sunderland. The 'line' must have been almost
parallel to the Rail line from Sunderland to Newcastle but a bit north
of it.

Dumbo tried to be 'clever' and ended up revealing his GPO/BT charade.
Simple as that. Quite funny really, I wasn't even trying to catch him out.

[Roger Hayter]

Jeff <je...@ukra.com> wrote:

> On 24/08/2018 23:52, Paul Cummins wrote:

> > In article <ih00odlk5khht1ldp...@4ax.com>,
> > graham...@mail.com (Graham.) wrote:
> >
> >> I always call them telegraph poles, telephone pole sounds wrong.
> >
> > Openreach DP poles, apparently.
> >
> > BT PLC has never provided a Telegraph/Telegram sevice.
> >
> > The modern telephone poles are completely different to historic Telegraph
> > poles in terms of the way they work and distribute lines.
> >
>

> How can wooden poles holding up bits of wire be that different???
> The configuration of the wire may be different but the concept is identical.
>

> Jeff

They used to have really nice ceramic insulators, though; as well as
one or more cross-pieces to mount them on. They really don't look the
same any more.

--

Roger Hayter

[Gareth's Downstairs Computer]

On 25/08/2018 11:04, Brian Reay wrote:
>
> Dumbo

Any chance that you'll grow up soon, Sonny?

[Spike]

On 24/08/2018 17:17, Brian Reay wrote:

> Perhaps post WW2 Russian amateurs were able to buy surplus western built
> radios, with Russian dials, supplied via the Arctic Convoys.

You need to do some serious reading about Stalin's Soviet Union. It
might help stop your silly speculation about those times.

[Rambo]

On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 10:36:23 +0100, Jeff <je...@ukra.com> wrote:

>On 24/08/2018 23:52, Paul Cummins wrote:

>> In article <ih00odlk5khht1ldp...@4ax.com>,
>> graham...@mail.com (Graham.) wrote:
>>
>>> I always call them telegraph poles, telephone pole sounds wrong.
>>
>> Openreach DP poles, apparently.
>>
>> BT PLC has never provided a Telegraph/Telegram sevice.
>>
>> The modern telephone poles are completely different to historic Telegraph
>> poles in terms of the way they work and distribute lines.
>>
>

>How can wooden poles holding up bits of wire be that different???
>The configuration of the wire may be different but the concept is identical.
>
>Jeff

The current wooden poles are used in a completely diffent way from
those that to used carry old 40lb open telegraph wire. A look at the
labelling on one will give a clue.

[Rambo]

What are you babbling about?

[Brian Reay]

On 25/08/2018 11:12, Spike wrote:
> On 24/08/2018 17:17, Brian Reay wrote:
>
>> Perhaps post WW2 Russian amateurs were able to buy surplus western built
>> radios, with Russian dials, supplied via the Arctic Convoys.
>
> You need to do some serious reading about Stalin's Soviet Union. It
> might help stop your silly speculation about those times.
>

Stalin died in 1953.

[Spike]

On 25/08/2018 13:03, Brian Reay wrote:
> On 25/08/2018 11:12, Spike wrote:
>> On 24/08/2018 17:17, Brian Reay wrote:

>>> Perhaps post WW2 Russian amateurs were able to buy surplus western built
>>> radios, with Russian dials, supplied via the Arctic Convoys.

>> You need to do some serious reading about Stalin's Soviet Union. It
>> might help stop your silly speculation about those times.

> Stalin died in 1953.

He was General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union from
1922 to 1952.

[A. non Eyemouse]

On 24/08/2018 17:56, Graham. wrote:

>
> which led me to this
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_RAFTER
> which would explain all the black helicopters buzzing my QTH when I
> was an SWL

Sounds like the kind of equipment they might disguise as a TV detector
van. Probably not much use for the later double-conversion receivers and
up converters such as the Sony ICF2010 (2001D) that Ana Montes was using.

--
Mouse.
Where Morse meets House.

[A. non Eyemouse]

On 23/08/2018 16:59, Spike wrote:
> On 23/08/2018 13:03, Brian Reay wrote:
>> On 23/08/2018 13:41, Ian Jackson wrote:
>>> In message <fu4m96...@mid.individual.net>, Spike writes
>
>>> Getting him to supply something already in free circulation (and
>>> therefore doing nothing illegal) was probably just a test - and a
>>> prelude to then asking for information which was increasingly more
>>> dodgy. [I believe this is a common form of grooming for spies etc.]
>
>> That would, on the face of it, seem plausible. Whether it is actually
>> used, who knows.
>
>> As for Spike's claim that we shared full details of all our military kit
>> with our allies, that must rank as one of his stupidest claims ever.
>
> Ah, yet another vapourclaim from a sore loser.
>

Not the Tizard mission then - where we sent the Americans the cavity
magnetron amongst other things.

[Spike]

RAFTER operations were also carried out over London by the RAF.

[Spike]

Wasn't it described as 'the greatest gift ever to be brought to these
shores'?

[Brian Reay]

On 25/08/2018 15:19, Spike wrote:
> On 25/08/2018 14:14, A. non Eyemouse wrote:
>> On 24/08/2018 17:56, Graham. wrote:
>
>>> which led me to this
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_RAFTER
>>> which would explain all the black helicopters buzzing my QTH when I
>>> was an SWL
>
>> Sounds like the kind of equipment they might disguise as a TV detector
>> van. Probably not much use for the later double-conversion receivers and
>> up converters such as the Sony ICF2010 (2001D) that Ana Montes was using.
>
> RAFTER operations were also carried out over London by the RAF.

What was it you posted about the OSA the other day .....

[A. non Eyemouse]

On 25/08/2018 15:22, Spike wrote:
> On 25/08/2018 14:18, A. non Eyemouse wrote:
>> On 23/08/2018 16:59, Spike wrote:
>>> On 23/08/2018 13:03, Brian Reay wrote:
>>>> On 23/08/2018 13:41, Ian Jackson wrote:
>>>>> In message <fu4m96...@mid.individual.net>, Spike writes
>
>>>>> Getting him to supply something already in free circulation (and
>>>>> therefore doing nothing illegal) was probably just a test - and a
>>>>> prelude to then asking for information which was increasingly more
>>>>> dodgy. [I believe this is a common form of grooming for spies etc.]
>
>>>> That would, on the face of it, seem plausible. Whether it is actually
>>>> used, who knows.
>
>>>> As for Spike's claim that we shared full details of all our military kit
>>>> with our allies, that must rank as one of his stupidest claims ever.
>
>>> Ah, yet another vapourclaim from a sore loser.
>
>> Not the Tizard mission then - where we sent the Americans the cavity
>> magnetron amongst other things.
>
> Wasn't it described as 'the greatest gift ever to be brought to these
> shores'?
>
>

“They carried the most valuable cargo ever brought to our shores.”—JAMES
PHINNEY BAXTER III, Office of Scientific Research and Development

(Tks Amazon).

[Spike]

On 25/08/2018 14:24, Brian Reay wrote:
> On 25/08/2018 15:19, Spike wrote:
>> On 25/08/2018 14:14, A. non Eyemouse wrote:
>>> On 24/08/2018 17:56, Graham. wrote:

>>>> which led me to this
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_RAFTER
>>>> which would explain all the black helicopters buzzing my QTH when I
>>>> was an SWL

>>> Sounds like the kind of equipment they might disguise as a TV detector
>>> van. Probably not much use for the later double-conversion receivers and
>>> up converters such as the Sony ICF2010 (2001D) that Ana Montes was using.

>> RAFTER operations were also carried out over London by the RAF.

> What was it you posted about the OSA the other day .....

And there was I thinking that you were up to speed on court cases. What
a disappointment you are.

[Spike]

On 25/08/2018 14:39, A. non Eyemouse wrote:
> On 25/08/2018 15:22, Spike wrote:
>> On 25/08/2018 14:18, A. non Eyemouse wrote:
>>> On 23/08/2018 16:59, Spike wrote:
>>>> On 23/08/2018 13:03, Brian Reay wrote:
>>>>> On 23/08/2018 13:41, Ian Jackson wrote:
>>>>>> In message <fu4m96...@mid.individual.net>, Spike writes

>>>>>> Getting him to supply something already in free circulation (and
>>>>>> therefore doing nothing illegal) was probably just a test - and a
>>>>>> prelude to then asking for information which was increasingly more
>>>>>> dodgy. [I believe this is a common form of grooming for spies etc.]

>>>>> That would, on the face of it, seem plausible. Whether it is actually
>>>>> used, who knows.

>>>>> As for Spike's claim that we shared full details of all our military kit
>>>>> with our allies, that must rank as one of his stupidest claims ever.

>>>> Ah, yet another vapourclaim from a sore loser.

>>> Not the Tizard mission then - where we sent the Americans the cavity
>>> magnetron amongst other things.

>> Wasn't it described as 'the greatest gift ever to be brought to these
>> shores'?

> "They carried the most valuable cargo ever brought to our shores”JAMES

> PHINNEY BAXTER III, Office of Scientific Research and Development

> (Tks Amazon).

Thanks!

"The shared technology included radar (in particular the greatly
improved cavity magnetron which the American historian James Phinney
Baxter III later called "the most valuable cargo ever brought to our
shores"), the design for the proximity VT fuse, details of Frank
Whittle's jet engine and the Frisch–Peierls memorandum describing the
feasibility of an atomic bomb. Though these may be considered the most
significant, many other items were also transported, including designs
for rockets, superchargers, gyroscopic gunsights, submarine detection
devices, self-sealing fuel tanks and plastic explosives."

Quite a list.

[Rambo]

On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 14:43:32 +0000, Spike <Aero....@mail.invalid>
wrote:

>On 25/08/2018 14:24, Brian Reay wrote:
>> On 25/08/2018 15:19, Spike wrote:
>>> On 25/08/2018 14:14, A. non Eyemouse wrote:
>>>> On 24/08/2018 17:56, Graham. wrote:
>
>>>>> which led me to this
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_RAFTER
>>>>> which would explain all the black helicopters buzzing my QTH when I
>>>>> was an SWL
>
>>>> Sounds like the kind of equipment they might disguise as a TV detector
>>>> van. Probably not much use for the later double-conversion receivers and
>>>> up converters such as the Sony ICF2010 (2001D) that Ana Montes was using.
>
>>> RAFTER operations were also carried out over London by the RAF.
>
>> What was it you posted about the OSA the other day .....
>
>And there was I thinking that you were up to speed on court cases. What
>a disappointment you are.

He's probably spent the last coulpe of days looking at wooden poles
hoping to find a reference to "telegraph"......

[Honest Jim ...]

"Jeff" <je...@ukra.com> wrote in message news:pltsj4$1qto$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

> ..but still a wooden pole holding up the cable, exactly the same concept,
> not completely different in any way.
>
> Jeff

what about the hollow aluminum ones ?....where the telephone wires can go
any direction when they emerge from the top....can't be a telegraph pole....

[brian]

In message <pltsj4$1qto$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Jeff <je...@ukra.com> writes

>On 25/08/2018 12:32, Rambo wrote:

> ..but still a wooden pole holding up the cable, exactly the same
>concept, not completely different in any way.
>
>Jeff

A proper telegraph pole - not many left

<https://www.google.com/maps/@57.6327221,-3.2138702,3a,17.9y,268.91h,89.5
t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s9fkD9WdvdZcQHYTxEYRFHg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2
Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D9fkD9WdvdZcQHYTxEYRFHg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3
Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D59.170933%26
pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656>

Brian
--
Brian Howie

[Brian Reay]

And, oddly, it looks very like the one I attached one end of my antenna
to over 40 years ago- which Dumbo reacted to.

[Roger Hayter]

Excuse my ignorance, but in the days when each insulator bore a single,
bare wire did subscribers get two wires all the way from the exchange
(as now) or was a more-or-less local earth used for the return from a
single wire?

--

Roger Hayter

[Brian Reay]

On 26/08/2018 19:31, Roger Hayter wrote:

>
> Excuse my ignorance, but in the days when each insulator bore a single,
> bare wire did subscribers get two wires all the way from the exchange
> (as now) or was a more-or-less local earth used for the return from a
> single wire?
>

Your question is strangely phrased but there was the 'party line' system.

Normally, people had two wires to their home.

However, if there was a shortage, the line was 'split' (note quotes). As
I recall, one used the A wire and one the B with both using the earth
for ringing. When they wanted to call, or pick up, they were switched to
use both lines.

I remember a relative- the only one who had a phone- having a 'party
line' initially and there being issues with it.

[Rambo]

On Sun, 26 Aug 2018 19:31:59 +0100, ro...@hayter.org (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

Yes they did have 2 open wires from the pole, but the distribution was
from the pole via underground cable as it is now. The poles are known
as Distribution Poles not Telegraph Poles, if you look at one it will
be labeled DP ***. The horizontal line is 10feet from the base to show
how far the pole is in the ground, the year of installation and pole
grade are stamped into the wood.The there is also another punched
label to show when the pole was last inspected. A D label means the
pole is dangerous, an S label means suspect. A 1024 label means that
there is a defect lodged against that pole, which could be anything.

[Rambo]

On Sun, 26 Aug 2018 19:57:15 +0100, Brian Reay <no...@m.com> wrote:

>On 26/08/2018 19:31, Roger Hayter wrote:
>
>>
>> Excuse my ignorance, but in the days when each insulator bore a single,
>> bare wire did subscribers get two wires all the way from the exchange
>> (as now) or was a more-or-less local earth used for the return from a
>> single wire?
>>
>
>
>Your question is strangely phrased but there was the 'party line' system.
>
>Normally, people had two wires to their home.
>
>However, if there was a shortage, the line was 'split' (note quotes). As
>I recall, one used the A wire and one the B with both using the earth
>for ringing. When they wanted to call, or pick up, they were switched to
>use both lines.
>
>I remember a relative- the only one who had a phone- having a 'party
>line' initially and there being issues with it.

Ha Ha Ha Ha !! goodbye

[Brian Reay]

https://www.btplc.com/Thegroup/ContactBT/Responsiblebusiness/index.htm

About 4 lines from the bottom.

;-)

[Brian Reay]

On 26/08/2018 22:31, Rambo wrote:

https://www.btwholesale.com/pages/static/products-services/managed-wayleave.htm