Tokyo 144mhz HL160V
barett
its working correctly.
If I switch the amp to 3w input and run 1W in from the radio I get 20w out
on low output and 80w out on high output. If I run anything over 1w in from
the radio then I lose all power output from the amp. Its just drops off to
nothing.
If I switch the amp to 10w input and run 2W in from the radio I get 20w out
on low output and 80w out on high output. If I run anything over 2w in from
the radio then I lose all power output from the amp. Its just drops off to
nothing.
The amps drawn from the power supply does not drop off when the Tokyo loses
output power.
What could be the problem with this HL160V and is it an easy fix , or
should I return it?
Thanks
Arthur Fallowfield
> I have just purchased a second-hand Tokyo 144mhz HL160V and I don't think
> its working correctly.
Hi om, from the symptoms as described I'm sure one of the output pair
of transistors; Motorola type MRF247 is not working.
If you bought it from a dealer return it asap, as they should have
checked it and obviously did not.
Not so easy for ebay purchases as the seller should have known the
fault and may tell you he's not interested or you could be lucky and
they might agree to take it back.
If you're stuck with it Google for MRF247 and you'll find some
suppliers
Here's the circuit diagram link on the Tokyo hypower site:
http://www.thp.co.jp/english/manual_download_e.html
You can also fit the 2SC2782 instead available from RF parts in the
usa and other suppliers
Castle electronics in the uk can fix it if you don't have the
facilities
The HL160 is a really good tough amplifier and only idiots blow them
up.
73 and good luck
John G8KHS
barett
mistake, because my IC-706 mrk 1 only runs at 10 watts. There's also a
problem with the preamp. Switch it on, and one minute its 3 s points
difference and then the next time its 6 s points difference. The time after
that it won't work at all. Just switched it on again and its sounds like one
of the relays is chattering away every time I key. I was going to send it
off to get it fixed but not now.
I have no choice but to send it back.
Thanks for your advice.
"Brian Morrison" <b...@fenrir.org.uk> wrote in message
news:20090718174...@peterson.fenrir.org.uk...
> On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 08:02:12 -0700 (PDT)
> Arthur Fallowfield <g8...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The HL160 is a really good tough amplifier and only idiots blow them
>> up.
>
> Sadly there are some real quality idiots about. Overdriving "linears"
> is almost a sport in some parts of the country.
>
> --
>
> Brian Morrison
>
> bdm at fenrir dot org dot uk
>
> "Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in the mud;
> after a while you realize you are muddy and the pig is enjoying it."
>
> GnuPG key ID DE32E5C5 - http://wwwkeys.uk.pgp.net/pgpnet/wwwkeys.html
>
>
Arthur Fallowfield
HL180 is also a good one to go for s/hand.
73
Robin
"barett" <bar...@blueyounder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:jpn8m.39795$tU4....@newsfe19.ams2...
> Its a shame they have done that. Its a nice linear. I know it wasn't my
> mistake, because my IC-706 mrk 1 only runs at 10 watts. There's also a
> problem with the preamp. Switch it on, and one minute its 3 s points
> difference and then the next time its 6 s points difference. The time
> after that it won't work at all. Just switched it on again and its sounds
> like one of the relays is chattering away every time I key. I was going to
> send it off to get it fixed but not now.
> I have no choice but to send it back.
>
> Thanks for your advice.
>
barett
I paid �60 for the one I have here. I know why now.
Just wondering if it would be cheaper to get this one fixed by Castle
Electronics rather than hunt another one down. Don't know what they would
charge to repair this one.
This linear seems to be a rarity now days. What do you think?
Thanks
"Arthur Fallowfield" <g8...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:00034e54-db85-4f5a...@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
Steve Terry
> mistake, because my IC-706 mrk 1 only runs at 10 watts. There's also a
> problem with the preamp. Switch it on, and one minute its 3 s points
> difference and then the next time its 6 s points difference. The time
> after that it won't work at all. Just switched it on again and its sounds
> like one of the relays is chattering away every time I key. I was going to
> send it off to get it fixed but not now.
> I have no choice but to send it back.
> Thanks for your advice.
>
>
Is the PSU man enough?
The chattering relays sounds like serious voltage drop
Steve Terry
Chris Kirby
Are you sure? How are you measuring your output power?
Is it with a cheap in-line SWR meter with PL259s on each end?
One problem with many low-cost in-line SWR meters is that above a
certain power, the diodes saturate and the through power indication
drops to zero. It may be that the amp is continuing to produce plenty
of rf, but your meter is saturating and reading almost nothing.
Just a thought.
--
73, Chris
G4FZN
barett
"Steve Terry" <gFOU...@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:h3t8cj$r5t$1...@news.albasani.net...
Arthur Fallowfield
"The amps drawn from the power supply does not drop off when the
Tokyo loses
output power".
Really looks like a shorting o/p transistor, if the current drawn is
about 10A when the amp is not being driven.
Max current on tx with 10W drive should be about 20A for a healthy
HL160.
The quiescent current in standby mode should be <1amp easily.
The dealer should have spotted this before they sold it and the twit
who damaged it should be banned from owning good gear.
It really does take a lot of abuse to damage an MRF247
Steve Terry
> On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:38:51 +0100
> "Steve Terry" <gFOU...@tesco.net> wrote:
>
>> The chattering relays sounds like serious voltage drop
>
> decoupling cap perhaps?
> Brian Morrison
>
>
Yes i had that with my Standard CBP510 amp if i had the mag mount
too close to it, so check the amps decoupling, put nice big chokes on power
lead
Not clear if the high current drawn is at quiescent or at apparent output
collapse
If at quiescent then shorted PA tranny or cap, if a output collapse
then probably decoupling problem.
Steve Terry
Arthur Fallowfield
> > The chattering relays sounds like serious voltage drop
>
> decoupling cap perhaps?
snip
Internal voltage distribution will be compromised by a shorted o/p
device and hence the chattering
Chattering on tx with amp being driven normally would be symptomatic
of rf getting into the relay circuits due to either decoupling
problems or poor rf node distribution because of the damaged
transistor and spilling into the adjacent relay circuit
I think it would be a good move to get castle to repair it but a
device would cost about £50 and you may need to replace both as a
matched pair.
Then there is the repair fee on top of the parts cost - Could be about
£100
Give castle an email and see what they say - a suitable device may be
sitting in their stock just waiting to be used
You may get lucky and find cheaper parts on the net
Fixing it yourself is very straightforward if you are good with
soldering and have a little skill with the mechanics of amplifiers
The duff device will be the one getting hot with the amp on standby
£60 is about the top price for one of these amps in the same condition
as this one, £120 is what I would expect to pay for one in good
working order.
If it were new old stock boxed and not used by the owner I'd go for a
max of £160 as long as I could check it out at the sellers qth.
Rule of thumb for a 2nd hand amp price is about a quid a watt if the
unit has been well cared for.
If it were me and I did not want to get my hands dirty then I'd out it
on ebay declaring the fault for £60 inc postage and then start looking
for a good one.
Steve Terry
snip
>> > The chattering relays sounds like serious voltage drop
>>
>> Or maybe RF getting into the relay drive circuitry, so a failed
>> decoupling cap perhaps?
>
>snip
>
>Internal voltage distribution will be compromised by a shorted o/p
>device and hence the chattering
>Chattering on tx with amp being driven normally would be symptomatic
>of rf getting into the relay circuits due to either decoupling
>problems or poor rf node distribution because of the damaged
>transistor and spilling into the adjacent relay circuit
>
>
If not being repaired under guarantee then use a good constant
temperature iron and lift both PA transistors Base and Collectors,
and measure all the way around resistance on both with an AVO
Usually they fail collector emitter, anyway if one is good and the other not
the differing resistance readings will be obvious.
Steve Terry
Arthur Fallowfield
> If not being repaired under guarantee then use a good constant
> temperature iron and lift both PA transistors Base and Collectors,
> and measure all the way around resistance on both with an AVO
>
> Usually they fail collector emitter, anyway if one is good and the other not
> the differing resistance readings will be obvious.
Hi Steve
Yes, that's pretty standard for bipolar rf devices to short C to E -
agreed
I would bin both devices and put a new pair in.
You could pick up some 247s from a rally cheap if lady luck is with
you.
Toshiba 2SC2782 work well in this amp and can be bought new from
plenty of suppliers.
I've got a pair of these amps and rate them highly,
Cheers J
Steve Terry
>
>> If not being repaired under guarantee then use a good constant
>> temperature iron and lift both PA transistors Base and Collectors,
>> and measure all the way around resistance on both with an AVO
>>
>> Usually they fail collector emitter, anyway if one is good and the other
>> not
>> the differing resistance readings will be obvious.
>
> Hi Steve
>
> Yes, that's pretty standard for bipolar rf devices to short C to E -
> agreed
> I would bin both devices and put a new pair in.
> You could pick up some 247s from a rally cheap if lady luck is with
> you.
>
>
Stornomatic 900, you'll find the equivalent to a 247 in it's PA,
but as you say a matched pair would be better
Steve Terry
Arthur Fallowfield
-snip-
>
> Yep for a cheap repair if you can pick up something like a scrap
> Stornomatic 900, you'll find the equivalent to a 247 in it's PA,
> but as you say a matched pair would be better
>
> Steve Terry
At least you may get lucky with a device from the same manufacturer
preferably in the same batch
Mixing makes is not advised if you value linearity on ssb
barett
YM-1X. It was given to me by a neighbour who's father was a fellow ham. I've
never heard of it before, but it is made well.
I had a look inside the unit and re-soldered some suspect joints near the
back. The chattering relays have stopped. The power meter is still going to
zero when I key. The meter on the front of the amp is reading 140 watts. If
its accurate. If I adjust the power up and down on the radio I can see the
amp meter and here the power supply adjusting to suite the draw it needs.
So I decide to take the dummy load out of line and connect it up to the
Ariel and see what happens. The report I got on ssb was 0 on 10 watts from
the radio, S 3-5 on low output and 5-7 on hi from the amp.
Does this sound about right for this amp?
If this is correct it looks like Chris G4FZN might be right.
I still have no way of telling what the amp is putting out though or if it
100% OK.
What would be a good make and model, but cheap as possible power/watt meter
to get that would not overload?
Thanks
"Chris Kirby" <g4...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rtb4655qefj0cpn36...@4ax.com...
Jimbo ...
> I still have no way of telling what the amp is putting out
w0ops CB alert! .......
barett
thread!
"Jimbo ..." <jim.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:oiJ8m.58434$OO7....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
Jimbo's VHF/UHF radio shack ...
> If you know the answer why not share and add something positive to the
> thread!
>
because we must all do what we are best at....and I am best at not getting
involved with technical discussions ......
Jimbo's VHF/UHF radio shack ...
"Jimbo's VHF/UHF radio shack ..." <jim.g...@googlemail.com> wrote in
message news:h3vr5q$v04$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Chris Kirby
>I'm not sure if its a cheap power meter or not. The name and model is a Toyo
>YM-1X. It was given to me by a neighbour who's father was a fellow ham. I've
>never heard of it before, but it is made well.
>I had a look inside the unit and re-soldered some suspect joints near the
>back. The chattering relays have stopped. The power meter is still going to
>zero when I key. The meter on the front of the amp is reading 140 watts. If
>its accurate. If I adjust the power up and down on the radio I can see the
>amp meter and here the power supply adjusting to suite the draw it needs.
>
>So I decide to take the dummy load out of line and connect it up to the
>Ariel and see what happens. The report I got on ssb was 0 on 10 watts from
>the radio, S 3-5 on low output and 5-7 on hi from the amp.
>Does this sound about right for this amp?
>
>If this is correct it looks like Chris G4FZN might be right.
>
>I still have no way of telling what the amp is putting out though or if it
>100% OK.
>
>What would be a good make and model, but cheap as possible power/watt meter
>to get that would not overload?
>
Having read the above, I'm 100% convinced there is no problem with
your amp and it is your in-line power meter dying with rf saturation!
A good power meter is the Bird 43 Thruline but these do not come
cheaply. I picked one up second-hand at a rally with various elements
for different frequencies. If you can borrow one it would give you a
definitive answer and a more accurate power reading than you presently
have.
If you stick a quarter wave whip in one end of the power meter, and
turn the sensitivity up to maximum, it will serve as an uncalibrated
field strength meter providing the antenna is not too far away from
it. That would give you a positive indication that your rf output is
ok. Don't get too close to the antenna when you're pushing 140 watts
up it though.
I used to run a Lunar 160w amplifier from the car. An interesting
"party piece" I used to do was to strike up a florescent tube by
holding it close to the the mobile whip. I suppose some will say it
was a silly thing to do, but it made an interesting demonstration!
--
73, Chris
G4FZN
Arthur Fallowfield
Ian Jackson
<g4...@yahoo.com> writes
>barett wrote:
>
>>I'm not sure if its a cheap power meter or not. The name and model is a Toyo
>>YM-1X. It was given to me by a neighbour who's father was a fellow ham. I've
>>never heard of it before, but it is made well.
>>I had a look inside the unit and re-soldered some suspect joints near the
>>back. The chattering relays have stopped. The power meter is still going to
>>zero when I key. The meter on the front of the amp is reading 140 watts. If
>>its accurate. If I adjust the power up and down on the radio I can see the
>>amp meter and here the power supply adjusting to suite the draw it needs.
>>
>>So I decide to take the dummy load out of line and connect it up to the
>>Ariel and see what happens. The report I got on ssb was 0 on 10 watts from
>>the radio, S 3-5 on low output and 5-7 on hi from the amp.
>>Does this sound about right for this amp?
>>
>>If this is correct it looks like Chris G4FZN might be right.
>>
>>I still have no way of telling what the amp is putting out though or if it
>>100% OK.
>>
>>What would be a good make and model, but cheap as possible power/watt meter
>>to get that would not overload?
>>
>
>
>Having read the above, I'm 100% convinced there is no problem with
>your amp and it is your in-line power meter dying with rf saturation!
>
RF detector diodes ('backward' diodes) do have unusual V-I
characteristics, but they are not normally found in SWR meters.
>
>
--
Ian
barett
the power supply just moves slightly. Its not very accurate down that low.
Thanks for the info on the Bird 43. I will check it out.
"Arthur Fallowfield" <g8...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b5483f45-e761-46a6...@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Jimbo ...
> If my multi meter is calibrated correctly 0.25amp on standby. The needle
> on the power supply just moves slightly. Its not very accurate down that
> low.
>
> Thanks for the info on the Bird 43. I will check it out.
>
>
better with a nice model 110 .....
Chris Kirby
>What is the mechanism of the saturation? I know that some sensitive UHF
>RF detector diodes ('backward' diodes) do have unusual V-I
>characteristics, but they are not normally found in SWR meters.
I don't know why it does it - I am just going from experience. Even
back to 1973 when I converted my Pye AM base station into a QQVO6-40
linear amplifier (for my Liner II as it happens). I didn't have a
decent power meter in those days, and I discovered that if I got more
than about 50 watts out, the forward rf indication on my cheap little
SWR meter almost "faded out" after a few seconds. The reverse power
indication (little as it was) remained constant.
I have seen this effect on more than one SWR meter. It may be related
to the diode's rf detection ability changing as its temperature
increases.
--
73, Chris
G4FZN
barett
Thanks
"Chris Kirby" <g4...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f09765drrfgn2695t...@4ax.com...
Mark Harper
> Anyone using the Avair AV-601 and sre they any good?
I've got the AV-600 (only difference is the switches, AFAIK!) - and its
a good meter, solidly built, seen a fair bit of use at home, and in the
field...the light is optional...but is pretty bright..you'll probably be
able to log with it!
But yeah..I'd recommend it!
73
Mark
Jimbo's VHF/UHF radio shack ...
> Anyone using the Avair AV-601 and sre they any good?
>
> Thanks
>
Jimbo ...
Mark Harper
Mark Harper
Dunno - I'll admit, the Daiwa's are built like a brick outhouse, but the
Avair are pretty solidly built too!..unless they've had some QA issues
recently then the one I had (bought in 2002 IIRC) is still going strong :)
Mark
barett
China and was not as good as the Japanese parts used prior to that. This is
what I was told about the AV-1000. So it's probably true for all there range
now.
I can only find the newer AV-601. Has anyone used one of these are they any
good?
"Mark Harper" <emwoneem...@gotadsl.co.uk> wrote in message
news:duadnakFrpzdLPjX...@pipex.net...
Mark Harper
> I've heard that after 2003 or there about they sourced there parts from
> China and was not as good as the Japanese parts used prior to that. This is
> what I was told about the AV-1000. So it's probably true for all there range
> now.
>
> I can only find the newer AV-601. Has anyone used one of these are they any
> good?
Having used the 601, the only real difference is that the 600 (and the
200/400) all needed at least 10W for full deflection - the 601 only
needs something like 2W - so its great with an 817/703 etc.
Wasnt aware that the parts were differently sourced - I know mines got
different switches, but thought the newer models, it was a design thing
(MHO!)...perhaps its worth holding onto my 600 then :)
73
Mark
Jimbo's VHF/UHF radio shack ...
and they are JUNK....
barett
does it seem fairly accurate?
Jimbo. Its all well and good saying a thing is rubbish but explaining why it
is, would be of more help!
"Mark Harper" <emwoneem...@gotadsl.co.uk> wrote in message
news:IeednV3YM-IMTPjX...@pipex.net...
Jimbo ...
> Jimbo. Its all well and good saying a thing is rubbish but explaining why
> it is, would be of more help!
>
>
nobody takes my word for ANYTHING ... you will be sorry ... don't say I
didn't warn you.........go on then buy one...see if I care.......HTH
Mark Harper
> Thanks Mark. What is the maximum power that you have run through yours and
> does it seem fairly accurate?
I've only run 100W through it personally - and it seems pretty accurate,
probably more accurate than my ATU, tbh :)
I know the newer ones are rated upto 1kW...but have seen the AV-600
handle 400w quite happily!
73
Mark
barett
73
Barett
"Mark Harper" <emwoneem...@gotadsl.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9-qdnWNGteQadPjX...@pipex.net...
barett
The pre/amp relay is still playing up.
I did decide to keep the amp come the end, for what I paid for it.
Interesting how the pre/amp actually works for better than the one on my
IC-706 mrk 1. Amazing.
"Jimbo's VHF/UHF radio shack ..." <jim.g...@googlemail.com> wrote in
message news:h44m4t$6n2$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
barett
Thanks
"barett" <bar...@blueyounder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Jbj8m.13677$GX7....@newsfe23.ams2...
>I have just purchased a second-hand Tokyo 144mhz HL160V and I don't think
>its working correctly.
>
> If I switch the amp to 3w input and run 1W in from the radio I get 20w out
> on low output and 80w out on high output. If I run anything over 1w in
> from the radio then I lose all power output from the amp. Its just drops
> off to nothing.
>
> If I switch the amp to 10w input and run 2W in from the radio I get 20w
> out on low output and 80w out on high output. If I run anything over 2w in
> from the radio then I lose all power output from the amp. Its just drops
James Stewart
> Where can I get some replacement relays too?
>
> Thanks
>
>
Pass ......
Robin
> Where can I get some replacement relays too?
>
What are they? probably Omron, try RS or CPC/Farnell,
Steve Terry
"Robin" <m...@here.com> wrote in message
news:4a6de3a1$0$2477$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
CPC, the radio constructors lifeline
http://cpc.farnell.com/
That's if i can't get what i want at Cricklewood electronics
http://www.cricklewoodelectronics.com/Cricklewood/home.php
189 bus from Brent Cross
Steve Terry
barett
I have another question.
When I apply 10 watts input through the 10 watt switch on the low setting I
get 110 watts out.
When I apply 10 watts input through the 10 watt switch on the high setting I
get 155 watts out.
Is there an adjustment for the low power output to be turned down/set to the
50 watts output as it should be?
I would like it set to. 50 watts low and 155 watts on high.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
"Steve Terry" <gFOU...@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:h4ksg2$nvv$1...@news.albasani.net...