Is 18 volts dangerous?
Rambo
Ian Jackson
<Ra...@thisaintreal.org> writes
>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335609/Jealous-husband-booby-tr
>aps-house-Taser-stop-wifes-lover-calling-round.html
It's a little low. However, as long ago as 1970, I realised that 36VAC
was potentially lethal - especially if you're standing 30' up an
aluminium ladder on a wet day.
--
Ian
Chris
It's the Daily Wail - you expect accuracy?
Where do you draw the line between a proper taser, and say a proper output
stage for a 136kHz tranmitter driving a very high Z antenna one wonders....
Reg
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335609/Jealous-husband-booby-traps-house-Taser-stop-wifes-lover-calling-round.html
I can't see that it was a Taser
Brian Reay.
news:q1ekf61hi5rmdidae...@4ax.com...
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335609/Jealous-husband-booby-traps-house-Taser-stop-wifes-lover-calling-round.html
>
Dangerous it terms pf giving a lethal shock, probably not. Enough to give
you a "tingle", especially if your skin was wet (sweat etc). I recall
getting quite an unpleasant "shock" from the 24V battery of on M48 tank
while working in a very hot country. If you had an existing heart condition
etc. it is just conceivable it could be serious, I suppose.
As ever, one wonders how accurate the report is. 11.8 -18V as a Taser
"output" or as a "visible discharge" isn't exactly consistent.
--
73
Brian G8OSN/W8OSN
www.g8osn.net
Brian Howie
<Ra...@thisaintreal.org> writes
>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335609/Jealous-husband-booby-tr
>aps-house-Taser-stop-wifes-lover-calling-round.html
Depends where you put it .
"Mr Gobir added: 'It had been positioned just below shoulder height by
the front door to dissuade people from going into his home to have sex
with his wife."
I suppose they could just have used the back entrance.
B
--
Brian Howie
freepo
>
> I can't see that it was a Taser
I guess there is a legal definition of a 'taser' somewhere in law in
order to make it illegal to possess one.
A device which has a designed purpose to give electrical shock to a
person or persons unknown would appear to cover it. (I just made
that up BTW)
Rasta Pickles
It's not volts that kill you, it's amps.
My physics teacher told me that so it must be true.
martin
It sounds a bit weird to me - some of it might be typical DM reporting.
"Nuhu Gobir, prosecuting at Merthyr Tydfil Crown Court, said: 'It was
hooked up to the mains power supply at Fletcher's home. Anyone who
touched it would get a painful electric shock of between 11.8 and 18 volts."
...
"Mr Hywel Hughes, defending, said: 'The weapon was defensive rather than
offensive and would deliver a shock with a tingling sensation.'"
So which is it? painful electric shock or a tingle. At 18v I'm amazed
they could feel it at all As for the buzzing sound, that was probably
just the transformer.
It all sounds a bit bollocks to me, it's certainly not a taser.
Brian Howie
<b0024f19-aed9-4817...@c17g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
Rasta Pickles <rasta....@gmx.co.uk> writes
It's the volts that jolts and the mills that kills.
Death is just natures way of telling you not to do something again .
B
--
Brian Howie
Gareth
It is true but you need a fairly high voltage to force a dangerous
current though the body, which is a poor conductor (think of voltage
like pressure and electric current like the rate of flow of water).
John F
pete
ITYM "It's Volts that jolts, but mils [milliamps] that kills."
Which is probably factually correct. However it presumes the
voltage comes from a high impedance source and is current-
limited to a very low level. Now we know from gnome's law
that you need a high voltage to push those milliamps through
a high resistance, such as the human body. So to get the "mils"
you generally need either quite a high voltage, or a large
contact area PLUS a highly conductive connection PLUS the
current to be applied to just the right part of the body.
IMHO the biggest hazard from a 12V or 18V power suppliy is
if you drop it on your foot.
Now RF burns: they _are_ nasty.
--
http://thisreallyismyhost.99k.org/0420101210525932044.php
Custos Custodum
howie.demon.co.uk:
Maybe they did. Don't knock it if you haven't tried it. :-)
Gareth
As you said, I would be surprised if anyone could even feel 18V, unless
they licked both electrodes.
Gareth
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
To reply to me directly:
Replace privacy.net with: totalise DOT co DOT uk and replace me with
gareth.harris
freepo
The DM must have it wrong, 11 - 18V won't pop and crackle as a
deterrant, 11,000V would so I reckon the Telegraph has it right.
John F
> On 04/12/2010 14:26, John F wrote:
>> The Telegraph have upped the voltage a bit: http://tinyurl.com/37wyjot
>>
> 18,000V, that makes more sense. The DM was only out by a factor of
> 1000.
Not bad for the Mail, shirley :O)
Ray Joham
18v DC).
It also depends on the internal impedance/resistance of the 18v source.
If the source internal resistance is low, and the load impedance is low,
then the current
flowing though the load will be high.
If the load impedance/resistance is higher than the source, the current
flowing through the load will be low.
Remember, its volts that jolts, but its the mills that kills!
So in conclusion, if your body resistance/impedance is low enough to drag
the lethal current regardless of the source voltage, then its half a day out
with the undertaker!
I think the minimum lethal current through the human body is around 30mA.
martin
Mrcheerful
but if it was installed with the express intention of hurting someone else
then it is illegal, same as when TM booby trapped his stairs, it would have
been unlikely to kill anyone, but it was still illegal.
M0WYM
> unless they licked both electrodes.
Usual way of testing 9V batteries - just gives an unpleasant tingle.
--
M0WYM
www.radiowymsey.org
Sales @ radiowymsey
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/gnome7763/m.html?
lu...@eternal-flames.gov
wrote:
>> > So which is it? painful electric shock or a tingle. At 18v I'm amazed
>> > they could feel it at all As for the buzzing sound, that was probably
>> > just the transformer.
>>
>> > It all sounds a bit bollocks to me, it's certainly not a taser.
>>
>> The Telegraph have upped the voltage a bit:http://tinyurl.com/37wyjot
>
>The DM must have it wrong, 11 - 18V won't pop and crackle as a
>deterrant, 11,000V would so I reckon the Telegraph has it right.
You don't need much voltage. A cattle fence (with a battery of
4.5-10.8V) will put something between 0.5 and 1.25 Joules on the
fence, certainly enough to be unpleasant on the nose/mouth of cattle.
Nick.
Phil Stovell
Ah! 11-18KV. The DM is as accurate at usual.
Gareth
news:Ybednf1lM8oRzGfR...@brightview.co.uk...
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> To reply to me directly:
>
> Replace privacy.net with: totalise DOT co DOT uk and replace me with
> gareth.harris
>
Say, "Hello!" to Lindsay for me!
Bill
lu...@eternal-flames.gov writes
Not to mention various parts of the anatomy when climbing over one. Once
done, never repeated.
--
Bill
joe
No just missed a k off it.
--
martin
So they were out by a factor of 1000. WTF do you think that 'k' means?
Custos Custodum
news:7_-dnWlJ6_rK0mfR...@brightview.co.uk:
That's really only true of the skin, especially when dry. Beneath the
skin, the body is actually a very good conductor (think of solutions of
ionic salts). If the live conductors puncture the skin, then heart-
stoppingly large currents can flow quite readily. I believe there are
recorded fatalities from the 32 VDC mains that once existed in some
rural areas in the USA.
Chris
> On Sat, 4 Dec 2010 06:08:57 -0800 (PST), Rasta Pickles wrote:
>> On Dec 4, 1:55 pm, freepo <freepo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Dec 4, 1:26 pm, Reg <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> > On 04/12/2010 12:47, Rambo wrote:
>>>
>>> > >http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335609/Jealous-husband-booby...
>>>
>>> > I can't see that it was a Taser
>>>
>>> I guess there is a legal definition of a 'taser' somewhere in law in
>>> order to make it illegal to possess one.
>>>
>>> A device which has a designed purpose to give electrical shock to a
>>> person or persons unknown would appear to cover it. (I just made
>>> that up BTW)
>>
>> It's not volts that kill you, it's amps.
>>
>> My physics teacher told me that so it must be true.
>
> ITYM "It's Volts that jolts, but mils [milliamps] that kills."
>
> Which is probably factually correct. However it presumes the
> voltage comes from a high impedance source and is current-
> limited to a very low level. Now we know from gnome's law
> that you need a high voltage to push those milliamps through
> a high resistance, such as the human body. So to get the "mils"
> you generally need either quite a high voltage, or a large
> contact area PLUS a highly conductive connection PLUS the
> current to be applied to just the right part of the body.
I seem to recall that the current to disrupt the sinoatrial node is of the
order of 65mA in the general region of the heart, or a few mA actually
flowing across the nodes itself. Not sure what the current to disrupt the
bundle of His is though/
I must get the defibrillator kit out at work and make some measurements. I
have some disposable project managers we don't need so I can do real world
tests...:-)
AlanG
If powered from the mains it could be lethal. But unless it was
capable of being carried around and was behind a locked door then I
cannot see how it could be illegal.
A.Lee
> I seem to recall that the current to disrupt the sinoatrial node is of the
> order of 65mA in the general region of the heart, or a few mA actually
> flowing across the nodes itself.
Thats about right.
30mA is the general current required to trip a household RCD. This has
been tested, so that the average human would not die if that amperage
went through them at 230 volts.
I was taught that anything over 50mA is dangerous, and under 50 volts AC
is not dangerous for the average person in normal conditions.
So, 18 volts is very unlikely to damage anyone.
Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.
Lordgnome
"A.Lee" <alan@darkroom.+.com> wrote in message
news:1jszhta.1cbir9cjco2b8N%alan@darkroom.+.com...
.
>
> So, 18 volts is very unlikely to damage anyone.
>
this. Mind you, he was using bare hands in a plating bath and was thus very
well connected!
Les.
Lordgnome
<lu...@eternal-flames.gov> wrote in message
news:sqlkf65hcrhtkr5is...@4ax.com...
>>>The DM must have it wrong, 11 - 18V won't pop and crackle as a
>>deterrant, 11,000V would so I reckon the Telegraph has it right.
>
> You don't need much voltage. A cattle fence (with a battery of
> 4.5-10.8V) will put something between 0.5 and 1.25 Joules on the
> fence, certainly enough to be unpleasant on the nose/mouth of cattle.
While living in the Australian bush, I made a very effective fox deterrent.
The chook run was surrounded by chicken wire insulated by milk bottles. This
was connected to an 8mFd 20kV wkg. capacitor (ex TV tx.). This was kept
charged to around 15kV by an old portable TV e.h.t. supply. It would
probably have killed a cow.
I used to discharge each morning by throwing some wire against the fence.
The sizzles on one occasion set light to the grass.
We had no neighbours at the time....
Les.
Chris
If you have a pacemaker wired across the nodes with well connected plates I
suspect that you would be very much more susceptible to problems,
especially since the current will tend to run down the low resistance wires
of course! There was at Uni a case of a Bitter coil upsetting someones
pacemaker by inducing such a large current in it that the poor thing gave
an audible beep and begged the unfortunate wearer to go see the hosptial
before it packed up completely...
When I was a lad at school we were allowed to play with 5kV in the physics
lab if we were deemed "sensible" for things like e/m experiments.[1]
Normally the safe limit was held to be 48V (actually 50 but our lab PSU's
only went to 48) and we were told this was "half" the lethal voltage if you
were stood on a wet concrete floor - presumably with bare feet. Our physics
master remarked on the fact that Japan and the US picked mains "at about
lethal voltage" in the bathroom, and we had voltages in the bathroom that
were much more civilised - ie faster in despatching you if you were
unfortunate. How true this was I don't know.
[1] No one died, but a physics teacher under training (aka cannon fodder)
incautiosly poked around my kit not realising it was live and got a good
belt. The real physics master dryly remarked that he should learn from his
students and invited me to set him homework on the benefits of a good thick
rubber mat if you wore shoes with segs in.
Bill
<l...@nospam.null> writes
Not surprised!
I wouldn't want to live next door to that either.
--
Bill
harry
>
> I can't see that it was a Taser
You wouldn't feel 18 volts. Thirty or forty volts might give a slight
tingle in optimum circumstances. The lowest voltage anyone has been
killed with was forty volts. But that was in ideal conditions (for
death).
harry
> On 04/12/2010 13:26, Reg wrote:
>
> > On 04/12/2010 12:47, Rambo wrote:
> >>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335609/Jealous-husband-booby...
>
> > I can't see that it was a Taser
>
>
> "Nuhu Gobir, prosecuting at Merthyr Tydfil Crown Court, said: 'It was
> hooked up to the mains power supply at Fletcher's home. Anyone who
> touched it would get a painful electric shock of between 11.8 and 18 volts."
> ...
> "Mr Hywel Hughes, defending, said: 'The weapon was defensive rather than
> offensive and would deliver a shock with a tingling sensation.'"
>
> So which is it? painful electric shock or a tingle. At 18v I'm amazed
> they could feel it at all As for the buzzing sound, that was probably
> just the transformer.
>
> It all sounds a bit bollocks to me, it's certainly not a taser.
Mains voltage is 240 to earth. That could kill no problem. Assuming
there were no RCCD devices in the house. The 18volts is probably
press bullshit.
We are talking DM here.
M0WWS
"Ray Joham" <rayj...@knob.twiddle.com> wrote in message
news:4psKo.44$fn1...@newsfe15.ams2...
> It all depends on the load impedance (if its 18v AC) or resistance (if its
> 18v DC).
No it doesn't their was a typo they missed out the K - Killer volts ;-)
AlanG
You been reading Simon Travaglia again :)
M0WWS
not something to do with the vibrator and step up transformer in them then
M0WWS
"martin" <use...@etiqa.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cfa68e6$0$12162$fa0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
> On 04/12/2010 15:57, joe wrote:
>> Gareth wrote:
>>
> So they were out by a factor of 1000. WTF do you think that 'k' means?
killer?
M0WWS
"Lordgnome" <l...@nospam.null> wrote in message
news:iddrdt$13i$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
It probably caught fire due to a short and set his clothes alight. You can
easily melt a knitting needle with the current supplied just from a car
battery. People are not made of metal fortunately so the current is
inherantly limited due to the combination of low voltage and high resistance
presented.
M0WWS
"harry" <harol...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4c7dce19-b8fc-4c25...@j32g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Ideal conditions being directly across a beating heart bathed in saline
presumably
lu...@eternal-flames.gov
wrote:
>> You don't need much voltage. A cattle fence (with a battery of
>> 4.5-10.8V) will put something between 0.5 and 1.25 Joules on the
>> fence, certainly enough to be unpleasant on the nose/mouth of cattle.
>
> not something to do with the vibrator and step up transformer in them then
Who told you that?
I never mentioned how it was done and what external - to the battery -
circuitry was used. But then the OP's newspaper article mentions
external circuitry too.
For those who care about such things, the TASER model as authorised
for use by UK police forces, uses a 12V battery pack to produce
50,000V at 18W.
That's about 1.8 Joules over a 4-5 second discharge cycle.
Nick.
lu...@eternal-flames.gov
wrote:
>It probably caught fire due to a short and set his clothes alight. You can
>easily melt a knitting needle with the current supplied just from a car
>battery.
COBBLERS!
Plastic knitting-needles don't conduct.
Nick.
Rasta Pickles
> On Sat, 4 Dec 2010 16:49:00 -0000, Lordgnome wrote:
I wanted to wire my garage door up to the mains to send a message to
the scum who think it acceptable to cause damage to other people's
property and then remove my property that I've worked bloody hard for.
No-one has had the courage to tell me how to do it............make of
that what you will.
(My email address is valid if anyone has the cojones.......metal door,
plastic handle)
There has to be a way surely?
Christopher Bowlas
> On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 14:16:16 +0000, martin wrote:
> > On 04/12/2010 13:26, Reg wrote:
> >> On 04/12/2010 12:47, Rambo wrote:
>
> traps-house-Taser-stop-wifes-lover-calling-round.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >> I can't see that it was a Taser
>
>
> > "Nuhu Gobir, prosecuting at Merthyr Tydfil Crown Court, said: 'It was
> > hooked up to the mains power supply at Fletcher's home. Anyone who
> > touched it would get a painful electric shock of between 11.8 and 18
> > volts." ...
> > "Mr Hywel Hughes, defending, said: 'The weapon was defensive rather than
> > offensive and would deliver a shock with a tingling sensation.'"
>
> > they could feel it at all As for the buzzing sound, that was probably
> > just the transformer.
>
> > It all sounds a bit bollocks to me, it's certainly not a taser.
>
> The Telegraph have upped the voltage a bit:http://tinyurl.com/37wyjot
That's much more like it - think Violet Wand
Christopher Bowlas
Perhaps the Daily Wail was trying to make up for their inflation of
immigration data?
martin
/me perks
AlanG
You commit a criminal offence if you do that. And if anyone is injured
or killed you would go to prison possibly for life leaving your family
to fend for themselves
Steve Terry
> While living in the Australian bush, I made a very effective fox
> deterrent. The chook run was surrounded by chicken wire insulated by milk
> bottles. This was connected to an 8mFd 20kV wkg. capacitor (ex TV tx.).
> This was kept charged to around 15kV by an old portable TV e.h.t. supply.
> It would probably have killed a cow.
> I used to discharge each morning by throwing some wire against the fence.
> The sizzles on one occasion set light to the grass.
>
> We had no neighbours at the time....
> Les.
>
Steve Terry
--
Quidco cashback Sign-up Bonus of £1.25 when you signup at:
http://www.quidco.com/user/613515/55307
Gareth
On 04/12/2010 14:38, John F wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 14:34:54 +0000, Gareth wrote:
>
>> On 04/12/2010 14:26, John F wrote:
>
>>> The Telegraph have upped the voltage a bit: http://tinyurl.com/37wyjot
>>>
>> 1000.
>
> Not bad for the Mail, shirley :O)
May Leslie Nielsen rest in peace
Mike Ross
Oh yes, they're a lot of fun.
Mike
--
http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'
Periander
news:jrilf6p1tqcf5mn83...@4ax.com:
>>> The Telegraph have upped the voltage a bit:http://tinyurl.com/37wyjot
>>
>>That's much more like it - think Violet Wand
>
> Oh yes, they're a lot of fun.
I never thought you had it in you ... ooo err ... perhaps the wrong thing
to say ;-)
--
Regards,
Periander
joe
> On 04/12/2010 15:57, joe wrote:
> > Gareth wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On 04/12/2010 14:26, John F wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 14:16:16 +0000, martin wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 04/12/2010 13:26, Reg wrote:
> > > > > > On 04/12/2010 12:47, Rambo wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335609/Jealous-husband-bo
> > > oby-
> > > > traps-house-Taser-stop-wifes-lover-calling-round.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > I can't see that it was a Taser
> > > > >
> > > > > It sounds a bit weird to me - some of it might be typical DM
> > > reporting.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Nuhu Gobir, prosecuting at Merthyr Tydfil Crown Court, said:
> > > > > 'It
> >>was>> hooked up to the mains power supply at Fletcher's home.
> Anyone >>who>> touched it would get a painful electric shock of
> between 11.8 >>and 18>> volts." ...
> > > > > "Mr Hywel Hughes, defending, said: 'The weapon was defensive
> >>rather than>> offensive and would deliver a shock with a tingling
> > > sensation.'"
> > > > >
> > > > > So which is it? painful electric shock or a tingle. At 18v I'm
> >>amazed>> they could feel it at all As for the buzzing sound, that
> >>was probably>> just the transformer.
> > > > >
> > > > > It all sounds a bit bollocks to me, it's certainly not a
> > > > > taser.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The Telegraph have upped the voltage a bit:
> > > > http://tinyurl.com/37wyjot
> > > >
> > > 18,000V, that makes more sense. The DM was only out by a factor
> > > of 1000.
> >
> > No just missed a k off it.
>
> So they were out by a factor of 1000. WTF do you think that 'k' means?
1000, what do you think the "k" means?
I meant the only error was that someone missed the letter "K" out.
I think you need therapy.
--
martin
So it looks like we are both agreed they were out by a factor of 1000.
Great.
> I meant the only error was that someone missed the letter "K" out.
All well and good, but I don't see what kelvins has to do with anything.
Steve Terry
news:yorKo.16409$uH5....@newsfe27.ams2...
> "Rambo" <Ra...@thisaintreal.org> wrote in message
> news:q1ekf61hi5rmdidae...@4ax.com...
>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335609/Jealous-husband-booby-traps-house-Taser-stop-wifes-lover-calling-round.html
>
> Dangerous it terms pf giving a lethal shock, probably not. Enough to give
> you a "tingle", especially if your skin was wet (sweat etc). I recall
> getting quite an unpleasant "shock" from the 24V battery of on M48 tank
> while working in a very hot country. If you had an existing heart
> condition etc. it is just conceivable it could be serious, I suppose.
>
>
A few years ago there was a proposal from car manufactures to create
a new standard of 48v for car electrics.
The idea being they could then use a lot less copper in wiring looms.
Maybe not a good idea if you have wet hands
Electric Peugeot 106 (now out of production) used 20 x 6v 120amp/h
batteries in series giving 120vdc at 120amp/h
Now that could give a nasty shock, not that the owner would have
any reason to get near them
Chris
You can still buy metal ones you know....
harry
> "Lordgnome" <l...@nospam.null> wrote in message
>
> news:iddrdt$13i$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
> >news:1jszhta.1cbir9cjco2b8N%alan@darkroom.+.com...
> > .
>
> >> So, 18 volts is very unlikely to damage anyone.
>
> > I seem to recall years ago some poor soul being killed by a voltage around
> > this. Mind you, he was using bare hands in a plating bath and was thus
> > very well connected!
>
> It probably caught fire due to a short and set his clothes alight. You can
> easily melt a knitting needle with the current supplied just from a car
> battery. People are not made of metal fortunately so the current is
> inherantly limited due to the combination of low voltage and high resistance
> presented.
Never wear a metal strapped wrist watch near a car battery either. I
saw somwone get a really bad burn years ago.
harry
>
> - Show quoted text -
Metal door knob and fake metal doormat :-)
GB
> Metal door knob and fake metal doormat :-)
Despite the smiley, that's probably conspiracy to murder. :-)
--
Murphy's ultimate law is that if something that could go wrong doesn't,
it turns out that it would have been better if it had gone wrong.
Ian Jackson
<bd05edfd-9aa0-4bdf...@v23g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
harry <harol...@aol.com> writes
Isn't it good practice (or even mandatory) to remove watches, rings,
bracelets, necklaces and the like when working on electrical equipment?
I had a works colleague who, when wiring up racks etc, always removed
his watch and wedding ring. The problem was that he invariably 'put them
somewhere safe', like on the top shelf of some stepladders, or on the
top of a rack. When he had finished work, he could never find them -
either because he couldn't remember where he put them or, quite
frequently, because they had got knocked off (especially from the
stepladder). After everyone (who usually wanted to pack up and go home)
spending a considerable time hunting for them, were usually found quite
some distance from where he put them.
--
Ian
Gareth
news:UpadnUzOfP7tHmfR...@bt.com...
>
> It probably caught fire due to a short and set his clothes alight. You can
> easily melt a knitting needle with the current supplied just from a car
> battery.
A few years ago at a Landy club meeting on a bright sunny day from the
other side of the field, the white-hot glare from a spanner shorting out
a vehicle battery was nevertheless easily visible. The battery then exploded
coating
the bare chest (The weather was hot enough to be working without
a shirt) of the would-be mechanic with hot acid necessitating the
calling for an ambulance.
joe
> > > > > > The Telegraph have upped the voltage a bit:
> > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/37wyjot
> > > > > >
> > > > > 18,000V, that makes more sense. The DM was only out by a
> > > > > factor of 1000.
> > > >
> > > > No just missed a k off it.
> > >
> > > So they were out by a factor of 1000. WTF do you think that 'k'
> > > means?
> >
> > 1000, what do you think the "k" means?
>
> So it looks like we are both agreed they were out by a factor of
> 1000. Great.
No, you are wrong, I think they made the mistake of missing a k out.
One is a mistake in intention, the other could be a typo, or a mistake
in print.
> > I meant the only error was that someone missed the letter "K" out.
>
> All well and good, but I don't see what kelvins has to do with
> anything.
As my first mention, it was a k.
--
Francis Burton
Chris <ng...@chris-street.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>I seem to recall that the current to disrupt the sinoatrial node is of the
>order of 65mA in the general region of the heart, or a few mA actually
>flowing across the nodes itself. Not sure what the current to disrupt the
>bundle of His is though/
The SA node doesn't have to be disrupted at all for fibrillation
to occur. A suitably large shock across the ventricles, well timed,
will cause them to stop pumping blood round the body. The SA node
can go generating its pacemaker signal as if nothing had happened,
but the ventricles won't be able to follow that beat because they
are now driven by their own intrisic, chaotic rhythm (which is much
more rapid than the sinus rhythm).
>I must get the defibrillator kit out at work and make some measurements. I
>have some disposable project managers we don't need so I can do real world
>tests...:-)
You are, of course, aware that a defibrillator can also *cause*
fibrillation (hence the instruction to "stand clear")...? ;-)
Francis
lu...@eternal-flames.gov
"Stand clear" ... Damned spoilsports!
Francis Burton
joe <joep...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> So they were out by a factor of 1000. WTF do you think that 'k' means?
>
>1000, what do you think the "k" means?
>
>I meant the only error was that someone missed the letter "K" out.
Nowadays, "k" is preferred because "K" is used as a binary prefix
meaning a multiple of 1024 rather than 1000. (The IEC recommendation
of using Ki for this hasn't yet been adopted widely.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix
Francis
FranK Turner-Smith G3VKI
news:idg0mo$6r3$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
I can see it clearly:
Mechanic: "Help, call me an ambulance!"
Beanie: "OK boyo, you're an ambulance."
--
;-)
.
73 de Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI - mine's a pint.
.
http://turner-smith.co.uk
Francis Burton
M0WYM <nospa...@radiowymsey.org> wrote:
>On 04/12/10 14:30, Gareth wrote:
>> unless they licked both electrodes.
>
>Usual way of testing 9V batteries - just gives an unpleasant tingle.
But not 12V batteries... ;-)
Francis
FranK Turner-Smith G3VKI
news:8m1gre...@mid.individual.net...
Gareth
news:12915556...@irys.nyx.net...
Also, "K" is widely used by the directorate of the RSCB when discussing
Sampling Theory in DSP.
Ray Joham
Why not?
Just because the internal resistance of a 12v (car) battery is sufficiently
low enough to generate the hundreds of amps required to energise a starter
motor, some people believe
if they put their fingers across said battery, it will give them an enormous
shock!
M0WWS
"Ray Joham" <rayj...@knob.twiddle.com> wrote in message
news:51PKo.235$sY4...@newsfe25.ams2...
>
> "Francis Burton" <fbu...@nyx.net> wrote in message
> news:12915557...@irys.nyx.net...
>> In article <iddkr6$utt$2...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> M0WYM <nospa...@radiowymsey.org> wrote:
>>>On 04/12/10 14:30, Gareth wrote:
>>>> unless they licked both electrodes.
>>>
>>>Usual way of testing 9V batteries - just gives an unpleasant tingle.
>>
>> But not 12V batteries... ;-)
>
lu...@eternal-flames.gov
wrote:
>
>"Ray Joham" <rayj...@knob.twiddle.com> wrote in message
>news:51PKo.235$sY4...@newsfe25.ams2...
>>>
>>> But not 12V batteries... ;-)
>>
>Your tongue is not big enough perhaps.
You'd need to be a bit of an idiot to connect your tongue up to the
terminals of a fully-charged 12V car-battery. Best left for FLs to
experiment with.
Nick.
Francis Burton
Ray Joham <rayj...@knob.twiddle.com> wrote:
>>>Usual way of testing 9V batteries - just gives an unpleasant tingle.
>>
>> But not 12V batteries... ;-)
>
>Why not?
>
>Just because the internal resistance of a 12v (car) battery is sufficiently
>low enough to generate the hundreds of amps required to energise a starter
>motor, some people believe
>if they put their fingers across said battery, it will give them an enormous
>shock!
I thought we were talking tongues, not fingers.
Francis
lu...@eternal-flames.gov
Probably doesn't do tongues on the first date.
Nick.
Rasta Pickles
> On Sat, 4 Dec 2010 10:57:24 -0800 (PST), Rasta Pickles
>
>
>
>
>
> <rasta.pick...@gmx.co.uk> wrote:
> >On Dec 4, 5:07 pm, Chris <n...@chris-street.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 4 Dec 2010 16:49:00 -0000, Lordgnome wrote:
> >> >news:1jszhta.1cbir9cjco2b8N%alan@darkroom.+.com...
> >> > .
>
> >> >> So, 18 volts is very unlikely to damage anyone.
>
> >> > I seem to recall years ago some poor soul being killed by a voltage around
> >> > this. Mind you, he was using bare hands in a plating bath and was thus very
> >> > well connected!
>
> or killed you would go to prison possibly for life leaving your family
> to fend for themselves
>
>
>
>
>
> >No-one has had the courage to tell me how to do it............make of
> >that what you will.
>
> >(My email address is valid if anyone has the cojones.......metal door,
> >plastic handle)
>
> >There has to be a way surely?- Hide quoted text -
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
But there has to be a way?
M0WWS
Steve Walker
> On Sat, 4 Dec 2010 16:23:30 +0000, Chris
> <ng...@chris-street.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> I must get the defibrillator kit out at work and make some
>> measurements. I have some disposable project managers we don't
>> need so I can do real world tests...:-)
>
> You been reading Simon Travaglia again :)
Love the BOFH... :o)
Steve Walker
>
> The Telegraph have upped the voltage a bit:
> http://tinyurl.com/37wyjot
Mr Gobir said: "It had been positioned just below shoulder height by the
front door to dissuade people from going into his home to have sex with his
wife.
ROFLcopters....
Barry OGrady
<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>Gareth <m...@privacy.net> wrote in
>news:7_-dnWlJ6_rK0mfR...@brightview.co.uk:
>
>>
>> On 04/12/2010 14:08, Rasta Pickles wrote:
>>> On Dec 4, 1:55 pm, freepo <freepo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Dec 4, 1:26 pm, Reg <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 04/12/2010 12:47, Rambo wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335609/Jealous-husband-
>boo
>>>>>> by...
>>>>
>>>>> I can't see that it was a Taser
>>>>
>>>> I guess there is a legal definition of a 'taser' somewhere in law in
>>>> order to make it illegal to possess one.
>>>>
>>>> A device which has a designed purpose to give electrical shock to a
>>>> person or persons unknown would appear to cover it. (I just made
>>>> that up BTW)
>>>
>>> It's not volts that kill you, it's amps.
>>>
>>> My physics teacher told me that so it must be true.
>>
>> It is true but you need a fairly high voltage to force a dangerous
>> current though the body, which is a poor conductor (think of voltage
>> like pressure and electric current like the rate of flow of water).
>>
>
>That's really only true of the skin, especially when dry. Beneath the
>skin, the body is actually a very good conductor (think of solutions of
>ionic salts). If the live conductors puncture the skin, then heart-
>stoppingly large currents can flow quite readily. I believe there are
>recorded fatalities from the 32 VDC mains that once existed in some
>rural areas in the USA.
50 volts DC is considered the highest voltage that is safe to work on
live equipment.
Ray Joham
"harry" <harol...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4c7dce19-b8fc-4c25...@j32g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 4, 1:26 pm, Reg <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 04/12/2010 12:47, Rambo wrote:
>
> >http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335609/Jealous-husband-booby...
>
> I can't see that it was a Taser
You wouldn't feel 18 volts. Thirty or forty volts might give a slight
tingle in optimum circumstances. The lowest voltage anyone has been
killed with was forty volts. But that was in ideal conditions (for
death).
Then the victim must have had a body resistance equal to or less than 1333
ohms for
40 volts to prove fatal. 40/1333 = 30mA.
Veritas
<rasta....@gmx.co.uk> wrote:
>But there has to be a way?
A flip-flop circuit using a couple of transistors running off a 9 volt
battery and coupled to a transformer which stepped up the voltage to a
couple of hundred volts or so could be fed into a diode bridge and
used to charge a 16 or 32 MFD capacitor.
The capacitor in turn would be connected across the metal surfaces you
want to electrify. The capacitor would take a bit of time to reach
full charge, but one charged would give a kick like a mule to someone
touching the metal surfaces.
The kick would be short and sharp and the capacitor would take a bit
of time to build up a new charge.
harry
> "M0WWS" <gareth.pa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
That was probably a hydrogen gas explosion. I've seen that too. Always
switch off the battery charger before disconnecting the crocodile
clips.
harry
> "Francis Burton" <fbur...@nyx.net> wrote in message
>
> news:12915557...@irys.nyx.net...
>
> > In article <iddkr6$ut...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > M0WYM <nospamm...@radiowymsey.org> wrote:
> >>On 04/12/10 14:30, Gareth wrote:
> >>> unless they licked both electrodes.
>
> >>Usual way of testing 9V batteries - just gives an unpleasant tingle.
>
> > But not 12V batteries... ;-)
>
> Why not?
>
> Just because the internal resistance of a 12v (car) battery is sufficiently
> low enough to generate the hundreds of amps required to energise a starter
> motor, some people believe
> if they put their fingers across said battery, it will give them an enormous
> shock!
I saw a Yank film where someone was purportedly tortured by connecting
a twelve volt batteriy with jump leads to parts of his anatomy.
Talk about a Hollywood education.
harry
>
> - Show quoted text -
What you need to do is go out and buy an agricultural electric fence
pulse generator. Nasty but not usually fatal unless you have a pre-
existing condition.You will only test it out the once I guarantee.
Heh Heh.
harry
> "harry" <haroldhr...@aol.com> wrote in message
True but not all that goes throught the heart. Most of the body
resistance is concentrated in the skin. Hence any electrical burns
are concentrated in this area. The actual resistance of the skin is
very variable. If you're a sweaty git, obviously, it's less. Suntan
lotion might increase it.
Hey, I wonder if suntan lotion protects from lightening strikes? :-)
harry
> On Sun, 5 Dec 2010 11:27:23 -0800 (PST), Rasta Pickles
>
As apprentices we used to charge a capacitor with the megger and toss
it to someone. When they caught it.................. Heh Heh.
Jim GM4DHJ ...
>True but not all that goes throught the heart. Most of the body
>resistance is concentrated in the skin. Hence any electrical burns
>are concentrated in this area. The actual resistance of the skin is
>very variable. If you're a sweaty git, obviously, it's less.
you know brian then ...?
AlanG
The law forbids the use of devices which can harm a trespasser. They
are illegal. Setting them is a criminal offence.
The most you are permitted to use are alarms.
One of these should scare the shit out of anyone
http://www.airpistol.co.uk/alarm_gun_tripwire_activated.htm
Jim GM4DHJ ...
> The law forbids the use of devices which can harm a trespasser. They
> are illegal. Setting them is a criminal offence.
>
Catweazel
wrote:
> > The law forbids the use of devices which can harm a trespasser. They
> > are illegal. Setting them is a criminal offence.
>
> what about poisoned milk ? ......
That is illegal Jim. The alternative would be nice cold milk laced
with a very powerful laxative - something like a chocolate milk shake.
You know it makes sense.
Gareth
> Hey, I wonder if suntan lotion protects from lightening strikes?
I think that you will find that the opposite applies.
Suntan lotion protects against darkening.
lu...@eternal-flames.gov
>One of these should scare the shit out of anyone
>http://www.airpistol.co.uk/alarm_gun_tripwire_activated.htm
The basics are there to home-brew a shot-gun (and ammunition). It's
astonishing what you can still legally buy.
Nick.
lu...@eternal-flames.gov
That's not a 'man-trap' as such, since it almost certainly doesn't
fall within the legal definition.
But as your intention would be to cause physical harm/death to any
person drinking it, it would still be an offence under The Offences
against the Person Act of 1861.
That would be the case if the poison was a lethal form, or some lesser
substance intended to make the drinker ill.
Nick.
lu...@eternal-flames.gov
ROTFL
Nick.
Francis Burton
AlanG <inv...@invalid.com> wrote:
>The law forbids the use of devices which can harm a trespasser. They
>are illegal. Setting them is a criminal offence.
Electric fence for livestock? I've been harmed by one of them -
I bruised a testicle when I was climbing through a fence between
two high tensile steel wires and my back accidentally brushed
the electric line above the upper steel wire causing me to lurch
violently sideways pinging my gonads against the lower wire. (I
wasn't trespassing and I knew the fence was live.)
So what counts as "harm"?
Francis
Francis Burton
harry <harol...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >>Usual way of testing 9V batteries - just gives an unpleasant tingle.
>>
>> > But not 12V batteries... ;-)
>>
>> Why not?
>>
>> Just because the internal resistance of a 12v (car) battery is sufficiently
>> low enough to generate the hundreds of amps required to energise a starter
>> motor, some people believe
>> if they put their fingers across said battery, it will give them an enormous
>> shock!
>
>I saw a Yank film where someone was purportedly tortured by connecting
>a twelve volt batteriy with jump leads to parts of his anatomy.
Presumably not his tongue. I imagine that would be very unpleasant.
Francis