milradio VRM-5080, clansman compatible?

[Mans Nilsson]

Greetings,

I'm pondering buying a VRM-5080
(http://www.greenradio.de/htm2/e_vrm5080.htm) to use on 69 MHz, which
is license-free in Sweden. I've got some investments in Clansman gear,
like remote boxes, a PRC-320, etc.

It does look, a lot, like the various audio acessories, the harness
connector and perhaps also the remote (over pair cable) might be pin
compatible with corresponding Clansman gear.

Can anyone shed some light over this?

Thanks,
--
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668
-- I have seen the FUN --

[Tim Hague]

Hi Mans

You are probably better in asking the Vintage and Military Amateur Radio Society (VMARS), they are a wealth of knowledge

73

Tim M0AFJ

[Mans Nilsson]

Den 2016-11-25 skrev Jeff <je...@ukra.com>:

> It is almost certain that the audio gear will be Clansman compatible,
> the harness connections may not be.

Thanks. Worth trying, then.

> That said, I am not familiar with the rules in Sweden, but it is highly
> likely that even though 69MHz may be licence free it will almost
> certainly have some specification that the equipment must meet, and it
> is very very likely that the 5080 will not meet it, and so would be
> illegal to use.

Switching into the highest power mode is likely to be illegal. The rules
are written wrt ERP, not what the transmitter can do. Other than that,
since I'm not on the west coast of Sweden, I should be pretty safe. Some
counties facing Denmark have even tougher power restrictions.

--
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668

... this must be what it's like to be a COLLEGE GRADUATE!!

[mm0fmf]

On 25/11/2016 16:52, Jeff wrote:

> On 25/11/2016 14:07, Mans Nilsson wrote:
>> Den 2016-11-25 skrev Jeff <je...@ukra.com>:
>>
>>> It is almost certain that the audio gear will be Clansman compatible,
>>> the harness connections may not be.
>>
>> Thanks. Worth trying, then.
>>
>>> That said, I am not familiar with the rules in Sweden, but it is highly
>>> likely that even though 69MHz may be licence free it will almost
>>> certainly have some specification that the equipment must meet, and it
>>> is very very likely that the 5080 will not meet it, and so would be
>>> illegal to use.
>>
>> Switching into the highest power mode is likely to be illegal. The rules
>> are written wrt ERP, not what the transmitter can do. Other than that,
>> since I'm not on the west coast of Sweden, I should be pretty safe. Some
>> counties facing Denmark have even tougher power restrictions.
>>
>

> However, it would bet that the rules contain more than just ERP!! (
> which this set may not meet).
>
> Jeff

What are these rules you speak off? It's a CB band. :-)

[Mans Nilsson]

Den 2016-11-25 skrev mm0fmf <no...@invalid.com>:

>> However, it would bet that the rules contain more than just ERP!! (
>> which this set may not meet).

They do. These are the rules: (This is for Sweden exclusively, so might
not make sense anywhere else. Also, my translation. Caveat emptor.)

69,0 - 69,2 MHz: Radio transmitter for ground mobile traffic.
Carrier frequencies in MHz:
69,0125 69,0375 69,0625 69,0875
69,1125 69,1375 69,1625 69,1875
Maximum power: 25 W e.r.p.
Duty cycle: <10%
Channel width: 25 kHz.
At carrier frequency 69,0125 MHz only mobile transmitters are allowed
within Västra Götalands and Hallands counties.

There are a further 10 channels limited to 5 watts e.r.p, and 12,5KHz
channel width:

69,60625 69,63125 69,65625 69,68125 69,70625
69,61875 69,64375 69,66875 69,69375 69,71875

> What are these rules you speak off? It's a CB band. :-)

Actually, the term is PMR. Judging from what I can pick up on the 446MHz
PMR channels, (kids screaming on vox and russian construction workers)
the difference might be mostly academic, though.

Tongue in cheek, as always.

--
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668

Somewhere in Tenafly, New Jersey, a chiropractor is viewing "Leave it
to Beaver"!

[David Woolley]

On 25/11/16 20:22, Mans Nilsson wrote:
>>> >> However, it would bet that the rules contain more than just ERP!! (
>>> >> which this set may not meet).
> They do. These are the rules: (This is for Sweden exclusively, so might
> not make sense anywhere else. Also, my translation. Caveat emptor.)
>
> 69,0 - 69,2 MHz: Radio transmitter for ground mobile traffic.
> Carrier frequencies in MHz:
> 69,0125 69,0375 69,0625 69,0875
> 69,1125 69,1375 69,1625 69,1875
> Maximum power: 25 W e.r.p.
> Duty cycle: <10%

Normally such license free frequencies are intended for use only by type
approved devices and the Clansman won't be type approved for that purpose.

Amateur radio licences normally allow non-type approved equipment, but
only in amateur radio bands.

[Brian Howie]

In message <slrno3g2o3....@jaja.besserwisser.org>, Mans Nilsson
<mans...@besserwisser.org> writes

>Greetings,
>
>I'm pondering buying a VRM-5080
>(http://www.greenradio.de/htm2/e_vrm5080.htm) to use on 69 MHz, which
>is license-free in Sweden. I've got some investments in Clansman gear,
>like remote boxes, a PRC-320, etc.
>
>It does look, a lot, like the various audio acessories, the harness
>connector and perhaps also the remote (over pair cable) might be pin
>compatible with corresponding Clansman gear.
>
>Can anyone shed some light over this?
>
>Thanks,

I've a friend who collects this sort of military hardware including
Clansmen. I've passed on the query.

http://www.lothiansradiosociety.com/lrs-members-and-their-shacks/19-gm8kc
s-mike-brunsdon-sr

Brian

--
Brian Howie

[Mans Nilsson]

Den 2016-11-26 skrev Jeff <je...@ukra.com>:

> Yes, but I am sure that there are other technical specifications that
> the equipment must meet such as an ETSI spec or similar. That is the
> case for 446MHz equipment.

As far as I can tell, no. The 69MHz allocation is specific to Sweden,
and we normally do not have any specific approval or certification
process for transcievers, beyond CE marking, which, for a 1980s radio
is not applicable. There are rules, of course, like "must have integral bad
antenna" for 446MHz and as I wrote upthread, limitations on e.r.p. are
in place . Some bands, like the amateur ones, are internationally aligned
(at least to ITU region level) but not all.

At http://www.pts.se/sv/Bransch/Radio/Utrustning/ there is swedish text
stating that:

Vendors selling equipment for non-aligned bands are no longer required
to notify the regulator that this is taking place.

Again, the quality rules apply, but that is dealt with post facto,
not with a certification process. Thus, it is perfectly OK to import
a Baofeng and sell it as suitable for the hunter frequency 156 MHz,
where anyone may transmit up to 5W e.r.p. with 10% duty cycle. Same
applies to 69, where a lot of fire brigade mobile transcievers ended
up after the emergency services were dragged into Tetra. (somewhat
kicking and screaming, I might add.) Fire brigade, ambulance and police
were using between 70 and 86 MHz and a lot of the mobiles from that
epoch can be tuned to 69MHz.

So: The end user may put anything on air as long as it is complying with
the rules. If not, the regulator will Have Words.

I'm quite certain a well-built 80s army transciever will pass. As long as it
works, and the antenna does not have too much gain.

--
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668

Being a BALD HERO is almost as FESTIVE as a TATTOOED KNOCKWURST.

[Brian Howie]

In message <odr+o6BE...@b-howie.demon.co.uk>, Brian Howie
<br...@b-howie.demon.co.uk> writes

I got a reply, but it doesn't shed any light:-

" Hi Brian,

I have not heard of this one and as far as I know it's not one of the
Clansman range. Looking at the spec it seems to be a push button
equivalent of the VRC353 and is certainly Clansman compatible as far as
communications are concerned. The accessories on the other hand may not
be although the same connectors are used. Some RACAL stuff made for
other countries have different accessory wiring but usually have spigot
differences to avoid damage. Best to check though.

Cheers

Mike"
--
Brian Howie

[Brian Reay]

On 25/11/2016 14:07, Mans Nilsson wrote:

> Den 2016-11-25 skrev Jeff <je...@ukra.com>:
>
>> It is almost certain that the audio gear will be Clansman compatible,
>> the harness connections may not be.
>
> Thanks. Worth trying, then.
>
>> That said, I am not familiar with the rules in Sweden, but it is highly
>> likely that even though 69MHz may be licence free it will almost
>> certainly have some specification that the equipment must meet, and it
>> is very very likely that the 5080 will not meet it, and so would be
>> illegal to use.
>
> Switching into the highest power mode is likely to be illegal. The rules
> are written wrt ERP, not what the transmitter can do. Other than that,
> since I'm not on the west coast of Sweden, I should be pretty safe. Some
> counties facing Denmark have even tougher power restrictions.
>

As Tim pointed out, it is probably illegal to use it on a licence free
allocation. I would think that the Swedish rules for licence free
allocations are similar to ours which require that the equipment is
built to a particular spec. For example, we have a licence free
allocation at 446, PMR446 (I expect you have something similar).

Using, say, an amateur radio on the 446 frequencies, even with the
'correct' power etc. would be illegal here. The same would be true if we
used an amateur radio transceiver on our licence free CB frequencies,
even with the correct power etc.

I'm not sure if Sweden has a 70MHz amateur allocation (we do) but, if it
does and you have a suitable amateur licence, it may of course be
possible to use it there- assuming it will 'stretch' to cover 70MHz.

Kit for 70MHz was generally something of a problem here in the past.
There was little commercial kit around so you had to build something or
convert something. More recently a number of 'Chinese' radios have
become availabe and several of the amateur manufacturers have started to
include 70MHz as more countries have alotted allocations. Even so, 70MHz
remains a very under used band.