spanish central banker tells socialist subsidisers about real life...
abelard
http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/33663/story.htm
"The rise in the oil price is an external disturbance that the Spanish
economy must adapt to by accepting the loss of purchasing power that it
implies ... and allowing the relative rise in price of this raw material
to drive necessary adjustments in terms of a more efficient use of energy
in production and lower domestic consumption," he added.
regards....
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news and comment service, logic,
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,207 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crowley
abelard wrote:
> http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/33663/story.htm
> "The rise in the oil price is an external disturbance that the Spanish
> economy must adapt to by accepting the loss of purchasing power that it
> implies ... and allowing the relative rise in price of this raw material
> to drive necessary adjustments in terms of a more efficient use of energy
> in production and lower domestic consumption," he added.
Inflation up = interest rates up for the $ and (soon) the € , but
apparently not for the £.
Why not I wonder ?
abelard
typed:
my method:
www.abelard.org/inflation.htm
approximation
british inflation is soaring....10%
usa is well under control...3.7%
euro is in between.....7%
curbing interest rates in the uk will slow the housing
markets and tax takes...
labour is now running scared...
the tories look set to become electable
hummingbird
mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>On 25 Nov 2005 05:33:00 -0800, "Crowley" <crowley...@yahoo.co.uk>
>>abelard wrote:
>>> http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/33663/story.htm
>>> "The rise in the oil price is an external disturbance that the Spanish
>>> economy must adapt to by accepting the loss of purchasing power that it
>>> implies ... and allowing the relative rise in price of this raw material
>>> to drive necessary adjustments in terms of a more efficient use of energy
>>> in production and lower domestic consumption," he added.
>>
>>Inflation up = interest rates up for the $ and (soon) the € , but
>>apparently not for the £.
>>
>>Why not I wonder ?
>
>my method:
>www.abelard.org/inflation.htm
>approximation
>british inflation is soaring....10%
Can you explain simply what this figure of 10% represents.
>usa is well under control...3.7%
>euro is in between.....7%
>
>curbing interest rates in the uk will slow the housing
> markets and tax takes...
>labour is now running scared...
>the tories look set to become electable
--
"I fear that the Prime Minister has become unhinged.
He has always tended towards being messianic."
-- Michael Portillo on Blair / Sunday Times:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2088-1879986_1,00.html
abelard
<ZYLYDW...@spammotel.com>
typed:
>On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 18:24:53 +0100, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
> mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>
>>On 25 Nov 2005 05:33:00 -0800, "Crowley" <crowley...@yahoo.co.uk>
>
>>>abelard wrote:
>>>> http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/33663/story.htm
>>>> "The rise in the oil price is an external disturbance that the Spanish
>>>> economy must adapt to by accepting the loss of purchasing power that it
>>>> implies ... and allowing the relative rise in price of this raw material
>>>> to drive necessary adjustments in terms of a more efficient use of energy
>>>> in production and lower domestic consumption," he added.
>>>
>>>Inflation up = interest rates up for the $ and (soon) the € , but
>>>apparently not for the £.
>>>
>>>Why not I wonder ?
>>
>>my method:
>>www.abelard.org/inflation.htm
>>approximation
>>british inflation is soaring....10%
>
>Can you explain simply what this figure of 10% represents.
i don't think there are any red xs on that page!
if you beg i just may take mercy on you...then again i might not :-)
regards.
>>usa is well under control...3.7%
>>euro is in between.....7%
>>
>>curbing interest rates in the uk will slow the housing
>> markets and tax takes...
>>labour is now running scared...
>>the tories look set to become electable
--
hummingbird
mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 18:50:06 +0000, hummingbird
><ZYLYDW...@spammotel.com>
>>On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 18:24:53 +0100, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>> mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>>
>>>On 25 Nov 2005 05:33:00 -0800, "Crowley" <crowley...@yahoo.co.uk>
>>
>>>>abelard wrote:
>>>>> http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/33663/story.htm
>>>>> "The rise in the oil price is an external disturbance that the Spanish
>>>>> economy must adapt to by accepting the loss of purchasing power that it
>>>>> implies ... and allowing the relative rise in price of this raw material
>>>>> to drive necessary adjustments in terms of a more efficient use of energy
>>>>> in production and lower domestic consumption," he added.
>>>>
>>>>Inflation up = interest rates up for the $ and (soon) the € , but
>>>>apparently not for the £.
>>>>
>>>>Why not I wonder ?
>>>
>>>my method:
>>>www.abelard.org/inflation.htm
>>>approximation
>>>british inflation is soaring....10%
>>
>>Can you explain simply what this figure of 10% represents.
>
>i don't think there are any red xs on that page!
>if you beg i just may take mercy on you...then again i might not :-)
Seriously, can you explain 'here'? There's a good yak...
abelard
<ZYLYDW...@spammotel.com>
typed:
of course i can.....but will i!
will i.....
oh well....
keep on down!
further
still further....
persistence is good for you.....
going down.....
i take the gnp growth from the expansion of the broad money supply...
regards...
hummingbird
mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:51:35 +0000, hummingbird
><ZYLYDW...@spammotel.com>
>>>>On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 18:24:53 +0100, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>>>> mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>>>>
>>>>>On 25 Nov 2005 05:33:00 -0800, "Crowley" <crowley...@yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>
>>>>>>abelard wrote:
>>>>>>> http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/33663/story.htm
>>>>>>> "The rise in the oil price is an external disturbance that the Spanish
>>>>>>> economy must adapt to by accepting the loss of purchasing power that it
>>>>>>> implies ... and allowing the relative rise in price of this raw material
>>>>>>> to drive necessary adjustments in terms of a more efficient use of energy
>>>>>>> in production and lower domestic consumption," he added.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Inflation up = interest rates up for the $ and (soon) the € , but
>>>>>>apparently not for the £.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Why not I wonder ?
>>>>>
>>>>>my method:
>>>>>www.abelard.org/inflation.htm
>>>>>approximation
>>>>>british inflation is soaring....10%
>>>>
>>>>Can you explain simply what this figure of 10% represents.
>>>
>>>i don't think there are any red xs on that page!
>>>if you beg i just may take mercy on you...then again i might not :-)
>>
>>Seriously, can you explain 'here'? There's a good yak...
>
>of course i can.....but will i!
That's not certain...
>will i.....
>
>
>oh well....
>
>
>keep on down!
>
>
>
>further
>
>
>
>still further....
>
>
>
>persistence is good for you.....
>
>
>going down.....
>
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>i take the gnp growth from the expansion of the broad money supply...
I finally got here and then ... well actually I already knew that was
your definition. Can you describe what causes *the broad money supply*
to go up or down. Then, can you define GNP growth?
abelard
<ZYLYDW...@spammotel.com>
typed:
>On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:07:30 +0100, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>>i take the gnp growth from the expansion of the broad money supply...
>
>I finally got here and then ... well actually I already knew that was
>your definition. Can you describe what causes *the broad money supply*
>to go up or down. Then, can you define GNP growth?
it gets much more difficult at that point....
the main thing that expands the money supply is the printing of
money by government...
the gnp growth is done by vast collections of numbers by
the central stats office (or whatever they call themselves
this week)
you may look up the manner of calculation and extensive
details in government stats digests usually available at any
substantial local library....
as i have very little trust in government honesty or figures
you must take it that i regard my method as at best an
approximation....
but a vastly better approximation than the purposefully
dishonest lying rpi rubbish...
to understand an economy even approximately you must
have an array of approaches and data in your head
...or at least to hand....
if you have been listening up you will also realise there are
serious problems with notions of gnp....
www.abelard.org/briefings/quality_of_life.htm
and all the while everything is being measured with
fiat money...which is like trying to measure with an
elastic band...
quite apart from the deliberate obfuscations of gov'ts
James Hammerton
wrote:
>On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:34:55 +0000, hummingbird
><ZYLYDW...@spammotel.com>
>
> typed:
>
>>On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:07:30 +0100, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>
>>>i take the gnp growth from the expansion of the broad money supply...
>>
>>I finally got here and then ... well actually I already knew that was
>>your definition. Can you describe what causes *the broad money supply*
>>to go up or down. Then, can you define GNP growth?
>
>
>it gets much more difficult at that point....
>the main thing that expands the money supply is the printing of
> money by government...
How are you measuring the expansion of the broad money supply?
James
hummingbird
mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:34:55 +0000, hummingbird
><ZYLYDW...@spammotel.com>
>>On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:07:30 +0100, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>
>>>i take the gnp growth from the expansion of the broad money supply...
>>
>>I finally got here and then ... well actually I already knew that was
>>your definition. Can you describe what causes *the broad money supply*
>>to go up or down. Then, can you define GNP growth?
>
>it gets much more difficult at that point....
>the main thing that expands the money supply is the printing of
> money by government...
Thus do you have evidence that the government has printed 10%
more money in the past year? And if they are printing more money,
what evidence is there that this will feed through to prices?
>the gnp growth is done by vast collections of numbers by
> the central stats office (or whatever they call themselves
> this week)
>you may look up the manner of calculation and extensive
> details in government stats digests usually available at any
> substantial local library....
I'm a long time advocate that official GDP figs are v/inaccurate...
but the measurement is consistent year-on-year. To use it as a prime
input to calculate inflation doesn't seem like a very good idea to me.
>as i have very little trust in government honesty or figures
> you must take it that i regard my method as at best an
> approximation....
>but a vastly better approximation than the purposefully
> dishonest lying rpi rubbish...
Except that RPI purports to be a measurement of actual price changes
even though we know it's also not accurate and will differ from one
household to another and is v/likely subject to govt manipulation.
>to understand an economy even approximately you must
> have an array of approaches and data in your head
> ...or at least to hand....
>
>if you have been listening up you will also realise there are
> serious problems with notions of gnp....
>www.abelard.org/briefings/quality_of_life.htm
>
>and all the while everything is being measured with
> fiat money...which is like trying to measure with an
> elastic band...
>quite apart from the deliberate obfuscations of gov'ts
I get the impression that your own measurement of inflation is little
more accurate than what the govt spews out.
abelard
<jamesha...@yahoo.co.uk>
typed:
>On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:49:20 +0100, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:34:55 +0000, hummingbird
>><ZYLYDW...@spammotel.com>
>>
>> typed:
>>
>>>On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:07:30 +0100, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>>
>>>>i take the gnp growth from the expansion of the broad money supply...
>>>
>>>I finally got here and then ... well actually I already knew that was
>>>your definition. Can you describe what causes *the broad money supply*
>>>to go up or down. Then, can you define GNP growth?
>>
>>
>>it gets much more difficult at that point....
>>the main thing that expands the money supply is the printing of
>> money by government...
>
>How are you measuring the expansion of the broad money supply?
i'm using m4 in the case of the uk...
and m3 elsewhere....the definitions are ~similar
i usually use the tables in the back of the economist...
abelard
<ZYLYDW...@spammotel.com>
typed:
>On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:49:20 +0100, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
> mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>
>>On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:34:55 +0000, hummingbird
>><ZYLYDW...@spammotel.com>
>
>>>On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:07:30 +0100, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
>>
>>>>i take the gnp growth from the expansion of the broad money supply...
>>>
>>>I finally got here and then ... well actually I already knew that was
>>>your definition. Can you describe what causes *the broad money supply*
>>>to go up or down. Then, can you define GNP growth?
>>
>
>>it gets much more difficult at that point....
>>the main thing that expands the money supply is the printing of
>> money by government...
>
>Thus do you have evidence that the government has printed 10%
>more money in the past year?
bank of england issues regular reports....
i haven't looked at one recently....
as for 10%...to get 10% monetary expansion (the government...
otherwise known as their wholly owned subsidiary...the boe)...
will only print ~1%....
this is a fractional banking system....
there are other ways of expanding the money supply
go look at the document!!!
> And if they are printing more money,
>what evidence is there that this will feed through to prices?
common sense...cause and effect....understanding the real world...
again, see the document....
>>the gnp growth is done by vast collections of numbers by
>> the central stats office (or whatever they call themselves
>> this week)
>>you may look up the manner of calculation and extensive
>> details in government stats digests usually available at any
>> substantial local library....
>
>I'm a long time advocate that official GDP figs are v/inaccurate...
>but the measurement is consistent year-on-year. To use it as a prime
>input to calculate inflation doesn't seem like a very good idea to me.
how on earth would you know?
>>as i have very little trust in government honesty or figures
>> you must take it that i regard my method as at best an
>> approximation....
>>but a vastly better approximation than the purposefully
>> dishonest lying rpi rubbish...
>
>Except that RPI purports to be a measurement of actual price changes
you're starting to waste my time..go look at the document!!!!
>even though we know it's also not accurate and will differ from one
>household to another and is v/likely subject to govt manipulation.
not 'very likely'....*is*....massively....
>>to understand an economy even approximately you must
>> have an array of approaches and data in your head
>> ...or at least to hand....
>>
>>if you have been listening up you will also realise there are
>> serious problems with notions of gnp....
>>www.abelard.org/briefings/quality_of_life.htm
>>
>>and all the while everything is being measured with
>> fiat money...which is like trying to measure with an
>> elastic band...
>>quite apart from the deliberate obfuscations of gov'ts
>
>I get the impression that your own measurement of inflation is little
>more accurate than what the govt spews out.
that's because you know nothing!!
regards....
hummingbird
mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 00:38:47 +0000, hummingbird
><ZYLYDW...@spammotel.com>
>>Thus do you have evidence that the government has printed 10%
>>more money in the past year?
>
>bank of england issues regular reports....
>i haven't looked at one recently....
>
>as for 10%...to get 10% monetary expansion (the government...
> otherwise known as their wholly owned subsidiary...the boe)...
>will only print ~1%....
>this is a fractional banking system....
So what you are actually saying is that it's private banks who have
increased lending. That's different from saying the government has
created 10% inflation.
>there are other ways of expanding the money supply
Such as? List them here:
-
-
>go look at the document!!!
Go look at this: http://www.fjsmjs.com/IE/redx.htm I do not wish
to wade through pages of red xs to then learn that it's all tripe.
>> And if they are printing more money,
>>what evidence is there that this will feed through to prices?
>
>common sense...cause and effect....understanding the real world...
>again, see the document....
No, it's not automatically the case that increasing the money supply
will lead to higher inflation. You are focusing on *one* element.
Taxation and import costs etc etc have to be taken into account.
Brown-Stuff is obviously gambling on these other factors.
>>I'm a long time advocate that official GDP figs are v/inaccurate...
>>but the measurement is consistent year-on-year. To use it as a prime
>>input to calculate inflation doesn't seem like a very good idea to me.
>
>how on earth would you know?
Elementary my dear lardy, elementary.
If you add up a pile of beans with a malfunctioning calculator, you
won't get the right answer - but it might be consistent year/year.
Further if you include a pile of screws in your addition, the answer
will be even more wrong.
>>Except that RPI purports to be a measurement of actual price changes
>
>you're starting to waste my time..go look at the document!!!!
That's because you don't understand what RPI is claimed to be.
>>even though we know it's also not accurate and will differ from one
>>household to another and is v/likely subject to govt manipulation.
>
>not 'very likely'....*is*....massively....
Fine. I was being generous.
>>I get the impression that your own measurement of inflation is little
>>more accurate than what the govt spews out.
>
>that's because you know nothing!!
Your usual get-out clause rears its ugly head again.
Why am I not surprised?
abelard
<ZYLYDW...@spammotel.com>
typed:
>On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:41:22 +0100, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
> mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>
>>On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 00:38:47 +0000, hummingbird
>><ZYLYDW...@spammotel.com>
>
>>>Thus do you have evidence that the government has printed 10%
>>>more money in the past year?
>>
>>bank of england issues regular reports....
>>i haven't looked at one recently....
>>
>>as for 10%...to get 10% monetary expansion (the government...
>> otherwise known as their wholly owned subsidiary...the boe)...
>>will only print ~1%....
>>this is a fractional banking system....
>
>So what you are actually saying is that it's private banks who have
>increased lending. That's different from saying the government has
>created 10% inflation.
why do i bother...
the 'private banks' are under strict government control
and also act considerably as a cartel...
>>there are other ways of expanding the money supply
>
>Such as? List them here:
no...do some work for yourself
i do not choose to argue with fools
rest binned unread.
hummingbird
mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:59:35 +0000, hummingbird
><ZYLYDW...@spammotel.com>
>>>>Thus do you have evidence that the government has printed 10%
>>>>more money in the past year?
>>>
>>>bank of england issues regular reports....
>>>i haven't looked at one recently....
>>>
>>>as for 10%...to get 10% monetary expansion (the government...
>>> otherwise known as their wholly owned subsidiary...the boe)...
>>>will only print ~1%....
>>>this is a fractional banking system....
>>
>>So what you are actually saying is that it's private banks who have
>>increased lending. That's different from saying the government has
>>created 10% inflation.
>
>why do i bother...
>the 'private banks' are under strict government control
I agree with this to some extent.
> and also act considerably as a cartel...
Matt would totally disagree with this.
>>>there are other ways of expanding the money supply
>>
>>Such as? List them here:
>
>no...do some work for yourself
>
>
>i do not choose to argue with fools
>rest binned unread.
Another surrender from lardy accepted. If you are unable to provide
evidence of your claim w/r/t inflation and its definition, you should
stop spouting it lardy and take your Red X page down.
abelard
<ZYLYDW...@spammotel.com>
typed:
>On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 17:04:14 +0100, abelard <abel...@abelard.org>
> mysteriously appeared thru the usenet mist to inform us thus...
>
>>On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:59:35 +0000, hummingbird
>><ZYLYDW...@spammotel.com>
>
>>>>>Thus do you have evidence that the government has printed 10%
>>>>>more money in the past year?
>>>>
>>>>bank of england issues regular reports....
>>>>i haven't looked at one recently....
>>>>
>>>>as for 10%...to get 10% monetary expansion (the government...
>>>> otherwise known as their wholly owned subsidiary...the boe)...
>>>>will only print ~1%....
>>>>this is a fractional banking system....
>>>
>>>So what you are actually saying is that it's private banks who have
>>>increased lending. That's different from saying the government has
>>>created 10% inflation.
>>
>>why do i bother...
>>the 'private banks' are under strict government control
>
>I agree with this to some extent.
1)you have no choice...it is fact...
2)you are effectively contradicting your previous stt.
>> and also act considerably as a cartel...
>
>Matt would totally disagree with this.
matt is very capable of rowing his own canoe...
matt is not an idiot...
stop attempting to put words into the mouths of your superiors...
there is some competition between banks but it is on a management
and efficiency basis in a highly controlled (non) market....
it is also in an environment which encourages moral hazard and other
corruption.
>>>>there are other ways of expanding the money supply
>>>
>>>Such as? List them here:
>>
>>no...do some work for yourself
>>i do not choose to argue with fools
>>rest binned unread.
>
>Another surrender from lardy accepted.
that may work for you in the infant's playground....
it won't work with me.
>If you are unable to provide
>evidence of your claim w/r/t inflation and its definition, you should
>stop spouting it lardy and take your Red X page down.
--