Ex-MI5 chief: Ministers scare public to pass terrorism laws

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Lee

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Feb 17, 2009, 7:07:46 AM2/17/09
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A FORMER MI5 chief today accused the Government of exploiting fears of
terrorism to pass draconian laws as fresh allegations emerged of Britain's
complicity in torture.
Dame Stella Rimington declared that ministers were playing into the hands of
terrorists by curbing civil liberties. In an interview with a Spanish
newspaper published today, Dame Stella said that the Government was
"frightening people in order to be able to pass laws which restrict civil
liberties, precisely one of the objects of terrorism: that we live in fear
and under a police state".

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23644654-details/Ex-MI5+chief:+Ministers+scare+public+to+pass+terrorism+laws/article.do


Big Les Wade

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Feb 17, 2009, 7:28:58 AM2/17/09
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Lee <m...@localhost.com> posted

>Dame Stella said that the Government was
>"frightening people in order to be able to pass laws which restrict civil
>liberties, precisely one of the objects of terrorism: that we live in fear
>and under a police state".

Is making us live under a police state really one of the objects of
terrorism? If you'd asked (say) a member of the IRA in 1921 what his
objects were, would he have replied (i) "Sure and it's ter make ye
English bastards live in a polis state begorrah", or (ii) "Irish
independence"?

--
Les
If people know by taking part in protests there is a danger of being searched,
they should think about not putting themselves in that position.

Lee

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Feb 17, 2009, 7:51:29 AM2/17/09
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"Big Les Wade" <L...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:glNCQcEK...@satan.hell...

> Lee <m...@localhost.com> posted
>>Dame Stella said that the Government was
>>"frightening people in order to be able to pass laws which restrict civil
>>liberties, precisely one of the objects of terrorism: that we live in fear
>>and under a police state".
>
> Is making us live under a police state really one of the objects of
> terrorism? If you'd asked (say) a member of the IRA in 1921 what his
> objects were, would he have replied (i) "Sure and it's ter make ye English
> bastards live in a polis state begorrah", or (ii) "Irish independence"?

Since 1921 asymmetrical warfare has come a long way, born in ww2 special ops
and honed in places like Vietnam, Indo China, Afghanistan and Angola the
average revolutionary is not a bog Irish peasant but rather uses
sophisticated and cost effective methods to subvert the target countries
economy, legal system, political infrastructure and any other weak point
that will provide a desired result.

Reducing the populations morale by manipulating it's naive, greedy and
unintelligent leadership into turning the place into a police state is
probably far more damaging than blowing up a train full of people.


Big Les Wade

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Feb 17, 2009, 10:03:16 AM2/17/09
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Lee <m...@localhost.com> posted

>"Big Les Wade" <L...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:glNCQcEK...@satan.hell...
>> Lee <m...@localhost.com> posted
>>>Dame Stella said that the Government was
>>>"frightening people in order to be able to pass laws which restrict civil
>>>liberties, precisely one of the objects of terrorism: that we live in fear
>>>and under a police state".
>>
>> Is making us live under a police state really one of the objects of
>> terrorism? If you'd asked (say) a member of the IRA in 1921 what his
>> objects were, would he have replied (i) "Sure and it's ter make ye English
>> bastards live in a polis state begorrah", or (ii) "Irish independence"?
>
>Since 1921 asymmetrical warfare has come a long way, born in ww2 special ops
>and honed in places like Vietnam, Indo China, Afghanistan and Angola the
>average revolutionary is not a bog Irish peasant but rather uses
>sophisticated and cost effective methods to subvert the target countries
>economy, legal system, political infrastructure and any other weak point
>that will provide a desired result.

Oh, I agree that the technical methods used by terrorists have
developed, but that's irrelevant. Rimington is discussing their
*objects*. Why would an Irish nationalist, or for that matter an Islamic
Jihadist, want England to become a police state?

>Reducing the populations morale by manipulating it's naive, greedy and
>unintelligent leadership into turning the place into a police state is
>probably far more damaging than blowing up a train full of people.

But the ultimate aim of terrorism is not to do damage; that's only the
means they have adopted to achieve their real end.

Lee

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Feb 17, 2009, 11:10:28 AM2/17/09
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"Big Les Wade" <L...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:xBSGpbK0...@satan.hell...

Consider any kind of warfare from stone-age clans yelling abuse at each
other prior to a fight to medieval armies firing rotting cattle or even
prisoners into a besieged cities with a trebuchet or the bombing of Dresden
in which no arms factories were hurt. It is all good for moral, in that it
lowers it.

Living in a police state is also bad for morale.

So how does low moral affect a modern industrial democratic country - well
we have a Faustian Prime Minister who will do anything for more money a bloc
of extermly rich Arabian countries run by religious zeolots who wish to
spread the faith and the British public that may ask awkward questions about
any deals that are struck of the sharia for cash variety.

We already have the first instalment of sharia I believe and many cities
with a mosque everywhere that you look.

Trespasser

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Feb 17, 2009, 1:28:10 PM2/17/09
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Yep.

Its going along nicely for the muslim pratts, the government are slowly taking our rights
away and the freedom that we now enjoy. Soon enough the muslims will be able to just take
over and half the work is already done for them.


------------
Regards

Trespasser
----------------

When I die, can I do a deal with god for a better place in hell?

I'm not paranoid, I use someone else's wireless network

I am not a free man, I am a number on someone's database

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Http://digitalgrudge.no-ip.org

----------------------------
"Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote in message news:kMxml.18355$Qq7....@newsfe25.ams2...

lorad

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Feb 17, 2009, 2:02:38 PM2/17/09
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> http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23644654-details/Ex-MI...

Manufactured terrorism produces handy cover to consolidate power in
the hands of autocrats - at the expense of freedoms for citizens.

The terrorist need not even be real.
The sheeple are too cowardly to even question the new restrictions
placed upon them.

A.G.McDowell

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Feb 18, 2009, 1:22:38 AM2/18/09
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In article <glNCQcEK...@satan.hell>, Big Les Wade <L...@nowhere.com>
writes

>Lee <m...@localhost.com> posted
>>Dame Stella said that the Government was
>>"frightening people in order to be able to pass laws which restrict civil
>>liberties, precisely one of the objects of terrorism: that we live in fear
>>and under a police state".
>
>Is making us live under a police state really one of the objects of
>terrorism? If you'd asked (say) a member of the IRA in 1921 what his
>objects were, would he have replied (i) "Sure and it's ter make ye
>English bastards live in a polis state begorrah", or (ii) "Irish
>independence"?
>
Deliberately making life worse for all in order to strengthen the
argument that the current government is making a mess of things is a
classic terrorist strategy. One example that comes to mind is the
targeting of Catholic members of the RUC by the IRA in order to
strengthen the (arguably already quite strong) argument that the RUC was
a tool of the Protestant/unionist establishment. Terrorist outrages
intended to provoke reprisals and overreaction or create a police state
fit that pattern.

However I believe that arguments of the form "Don't do X because that's
exactly what the terrorists want" are unreliable. It is difficult to
find out what the terrorists want, what they want is not necessarily in
their own best interests, and running a government, even one fighting a
terrorist insurgency, is not necessarily a zero sum game. It should be
sufficient to establish that police states are uncomfortable and
unpredictable places to live in, that they suppress dissent, and that by
this and other means they accumulate a growing frozen wasteland of bad
but unchangeable decisions that reduce productivity and gradually
impoverish everybody.
--
A.G.McDowell

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