County Council Elections / UKIP

[Paul Hyett]

I happy to see a UKIP candidate standing for election in my local ward
this time.

I wonder how they'll do overall, though?
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

[Basil Jet]

On 2013\04\21 08:42, Paul Hyett wrote:
> I happy to see a UKIP candidate standing for election in my local ward
> this time.
>
> I wonder how they'll do overall, though?

They'll win most of the safest Tory seats and come close second in the
rest: they'll win a few Labour safe seats, but not do too well in the
Lab-Con marginals.

[Bill]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 08:42:29 +0100, Paul Hyett <p...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>I happy to see a UKIP candidate standing for election in my local ward
>this time.
>
>I wonder how they'll do overall, though?

What's interesting isn't who's standing, it's who isn't...

No BNP candidates opposing UKIP anywhere I can find, indeed, not many
Nazis at all.

UKIP seem to be very selective about which Tories they're facing as
well...

[Bill]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 08:45:07 +0100, Basil Jet <no...@none.spamspam.com>
wrote:

They'll pick up the BNP vote and get maybe 15% of Tory votes.

I doubt they'll get more than 50 or 60 council seats and no control
anywhere.

Much as the Greens do now...

Speaking of the 'fluffy bunny party', I wonder how the Greens will do?

They traditionally steal Lib Dem votes and the Lib Dems are under
something of a cloud at the moment...

[Ophelia]

"Bill" <black...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5lk7n8ljcokoj269e...@4ax.com...

Tactics?


--
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[Basil Jet]

On 2013\04\21 12:52, Bill wrote:
>
> UKIP seem to be very selective about which Tories they're facing as
> well...

Example?

UKIP don't have enough members willing to stand: if we did, we would be
standing in every division, regardless of which Tory we were facing.

[Bill]

Well the BNP/UKIP link seems to be well established.

As candidates names are not listed until after they've all committed
(You don't know if someone from a particular party is even standing
until after the details are published) it seems obvious that there's
some collusion there, even if it's only a chat down the pub between
like minded bigots...

UKIP and the Tories is something else.

Most Eurosceptic Tories wear their views on their sleeves. I imagine
it wouldn't be hard for UKIP to find out which are their friends,
except that I know of two Eurosceptic Tory county councilors who are
fighting a UKIP challenger...

So, it seems, there may be more going on than meets the eye, but I
really don't know.

Of course it's quite possible that Farage's boys aren't actually that
well organised as they don't actually seem to have any sort of proper
organisation, especially when it comes to doing basic stuff like
proof reading leaflets for simple typographical and grammatical
errors.

They may just be stumbling around in the dark with the BNP,
experienced players that they are, dodging out of the way and the
poor hapless Tories getting caught in the UKIP wringer no matter if
they're Eurosceptic or not.

[Bill]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 16:03:19 +0100, Basil Jet <no...@none.spamspam.com>
wrote:

>On 2013\04\21 12:52, Bill wrote:
>>
>> UKIP seem to be very selective about which Tories they're facing as
>> well...
>
>Example?
>

Where I live...

http://www.northyorks.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=10098

Very odd indeed.

Only two districts with no UKIP candidate and the BNP have disappeared
from their two usual places where they stand and who on earth are 'The
National Front'? Or is that the ghastly Brons' new bunch of Nazis?

[Optimist]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 16:11:47 +0100, Bill <black...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 15:28:12 +0100, "Ophelia"
><Oph...@elsinore.me.ku.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Bill" <black...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:5lk7n8ljcokoj269e...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 08:42:29 +0100, Paul Hyett <p...@invalid.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I happy to see a UKIP candidate standing for election in my local ward
>>>>this time.
>>>>
>>>>I wonder how they'll do overall, though?
>>>
>>> What's interesting isn't who's standing, it's who isn't...
>>>
>>> No BNP candidates opposing UKIP anywhere I can find, indeed, not many
>>> Nazis at all.
>>>
>>> UKIP seem to be very selective about which Tories they're facing as
>>> well...
>>
>>Tactics?
>>
>
>Well the BNP/UKIP link seems to be well established.

Rubbish. BNP / NF are connected to Labour -

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/8200722.Former_BNP_activist_made_Blackburn_with_Darwen_s_culture_boss/%5B/url/

http://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/local/former-nazi-wins-a-labour-council-seat-1-3826439

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2004/jun/14/localgovernment.politics

[Bill]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 18:42:57 +0100, Optimist
<v.me...@i.do.not.believe.it> wrote:

>On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 16:11:47 +0100, Bill <black...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 15:28:12 +0100, "Ophelia"
>><Oph...@elsinore.me.ku.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Bill" <black...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:5lk7n8ljcokoj269e...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 08:42:29 +0100, Paul Hyett <p...@invalid.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I happy to see a UKIP candidate standing for election in my local ward
>>>>>this time.
>>>>>
>>>>>I wonder how they'll do overall, though?
>>>>
>>>> What's interesting isn't who's standing, it's who isn't...
>>>>
>>>> No BNP candidates opposing UKIP anywhere I can find, indeed, not many
>>>> Nazis at all.
>>>>
>>>> UKIP seem to be very selective about which Tories they're facing as
>>>> well...
>>>
>>>Tactics?
>>>
>>
>>Well the BNP/UKIP link seems to be well established.
>
>Rubbish. BNP / NF are connected to Labour -

So why no BNP candidates in seats where UKIP are standing?

I notice there is the odd NF one though.

Have the Nazis had yet another split?

They're getting as bad as the Commies...

[aaa]

Parties surge and parties decline.
The decline in one party often results in the surge in another.

Hopefully the BNP are seriously in decline.
Presumably the NF are some sort of fringe from the old BNP trying to re-invent itself?

From Nigel Farage speaches, his main concern seems to be preserving democracy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGNoZfvRoA

Do you have any evidence that UKUP are linked with the nazi BNP?

[Basil Jet]

On 2013\04\21 20:33, aaa wrote:
>
> Hopefully the BNP are seriously in decline.

Of course they are. They are a manifestation of Labour government, and
always atrophy immediately when Labour lose power.

[Ophelia]

"Bill" <black...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:hna8n8lae76dl57ih...@4ax.com...

I don't believe UKIP and BNP are connected. Farage spoke most dismissively
of them. I doubt BNP would allow him in their ranks with his German wife:)

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[Basil Jet]

On 2013\04\21 19:08, Bill wrote:
>
> So why no BNP candidates in seats where UKIP are standing?
>
> I notice there is the odd NF one though.
>
> Have the Nazis had yet another split?
>
> They're getting as bad as the Commies...

The BNP has very limited resources, it would be foolish to stand against
UKIP in council elections while UKIP is not yet fielding candidates in
every ward. The BNP does however stand against UKIP in Westminster
by-elections, and in Rotherham in particular the BNP was not that far
off losing it for UKIP and handing victory to Labour.

[Bill]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 20:19:24 +0100, "Ophelia"

The BNP is easing up a bit in a desperate effort to appear almost
rational.

It now has a couple of Asian members.

Farage's German wife wouldn't be a problem for them, at least until
after they get power... <giggle>

I certainly don't think there's any formal contact, but there may
well be some informal contact of some kind.

[Bill]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 21:58:47 +0100, Basil Jet <no...@none.spamspam.com>
wrote:

>On 2013\04\21 19:08, Bill wrote:
>>
>> So why no BNP candidates in seats where UKIP are standing?
>>
>> I notice there is the odd NF one though.
>>
>> Have the Nazis had yet another split?
>>
>> They're getting as bad as the Commies...
>
>The BNP has very limited resources, it would be foolish to stand against
>UKIP in council elections while UKIP is not yet fielding candidates in
>every ward.

How do they get to know who's standing before the publication of the
list of candidates?

[Bill]

There are no BNP candidates facing UKIP candidates.

Lists of candidates are not published until everyone has put in their
papers.

Therefore at some level it looks like there is some collusion.

[Bill]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 21:22:43 +0100, Basil Jet <no...@none.spamspam.com>
wrote:

That's a very interesting point.

Parties of the right often fall away during a Tory government.

Usually because their paymasters know they can gain more influence by
speaking to the Tories.

However this time UKIP has kept on going.

[Ophelia]

"Bill" <black...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:h5l8n8lptvrhhnutb...@4ax.com...

>>I don't believe UKIP and BNP are connected. Farage spoke most
>>dismissively
>>of them. I doubt BNP would allow him in their ranks with his German
>>wife:)
>>
>
> The BNP is easing up a bit in a desperate effort to appear almost
> rational.
>
> It now has a couple of Asian members.
>
> Farage's German wife wouldn't be a problem for them, at least until
> after they get power... <giggle>

Heh I don't think we need to worry about that too much ...

> I certainly don't think there's any formal contact, but there may
> well be some informal contact of some kind.
>
>

--
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[aaa]

Obviously the following is anecdotal.
But I met a paid UKIP party researcher and she was a nazi / neo-nazi.
She was talking about the Titanic movie and how she thought that the grills to stop 3rd class passengers from escaping were a good idea.
Survival of the betters and all that.
Another (just to see how far she would go) suggested that wealth although a good indicator of past success was a little crude,
and that people who might contribute a lot in the future might be killed, would not genetics be a better measure?
i.e. a simple genetic test, and you are allocated your class of ticket to indicate whether you get trapped inside if the ship sinks.
She thought this was a brilliant idea!

Previously I assumed this was just a single chance individual / nutter etc, but you might be onto something,
after all you would expect some level of vetting before hiring someone to a party?

[Basil Jet]

The BNP are not right wing, that's leftist propaganda designed to
pretend that evil dictators like Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot are on both
ends of the political spectrum rather than all on the left. The BNP's
economic policies are similar to Labour, the only difference between
Labour and the BNP is the colour of their demonised group.

Who exactly are the BNP's paymasters anyway? They have a few paying
members and are scraping along inches from bankruptcy. Any company or
businessman who gave them a penny would be simultaneously sued for
discrimination by every single non-white who had ever been turned down
for a job or promotion.

Any discussion of Ukip's nature has to consider that Ukip membership is
growing so rapidly that existing members quickly become outnumbered by
new members. My local group grew by a sixth in March, if you keep that
going the membership will double every 4.5 months, so the membership of
13 months ago are outnumbered something like 7 to 1 by people who have
joined since.

[Bill]

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 01:32:51 +0100, Basil Jet <no...@none.spamspam.com>

wrote:

>On 2013\04\21 22:12, Bill wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 21:22:43 +0100, Basil Jet <no...@none.spamspam.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2013\04\21 20:33, aaa wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hopefully the BNP are seriously in decline.
>>>
>>> Of course they are. They are a manifestation of Labour government, and
>>> always atrophy immediately when Labour lose power.
>>
>> That's a very interesting point.
>>
>> Parties of the right often fall away during a Tory government.
> > Usually because their paymasters know they can gain more influence by
> > speaking to the Tories.
>
>The BNP are not right wing, that's leftist propaganda designed to
>pretend that evil dictators like Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot are on both
>ends of the political spectrum rather than all on the left. The BNP's
>economic policies are similar to Labour, the only difference between
>Labour and the BNP is the colour of their demonised group.

Oh, do try and wake up and smell the coffee...

>Who exactly are the BNP's paymasters anyway? They have a few paying
>members and are scraping along inches from bankruptcy. Any company or
>businessman who gave them a penny would be simultaneously sued for
>discrimination by every single non-white who had ever been turned down
>for a job or promotion.

I'm sure you can point to a couple of cases here...

[Bill]

I'm with David Cameron on this one, he said that he was sure there
were some people in UKIP who weren't racists...

[Optimist]

It looks like you are clutching at straws.

[Optimist]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 19:08:53 +0100, Bill <black...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>So why no BNP candidates in seats where UKIP are standing?
>

Because the BNP and NF have defected to Labour!

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/8200722.Former_BNP_activist_made_Blackburn_with_Darwen_s_culture_boss/%5B/url/

http://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/local/former-nazi-wins-a-labour-council-seat-1-3826439

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2004/jun/14/localgovernment.politics

Do try to keep up!

[Paul Hyett]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 at 19:08:53, Bill <black...@gmail.com> wrote in
uk.politics.electoral :

>>>
>>>Well the BNP/UKIP link seems to be well established.
>>
>>Rubbish. BNP / NF are connected to Labour -
>
>So why no BNP candidates in seats where UKIP are standing?

Because they realise that UKIP's recent converts aren't racist?
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

[Paul Hyett]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 at 22:12:05, Bill <black...@gmail.com> wrote in
uk.politics.electoral :

>On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 21:22:43 +0100, Basil Jet <no...@none.spamspam.com>
>wrote:
>
>>

>>Of course they are. They are a manifestation of Labour government, and
>>always atrophy immediately when Labour lose power.
>
>That's a very interesting point.
>
>Parties of the right often fall away during a Tory government.
>
>Usually because their paymasters know they can gain more influence by
>speaking to the Tories.
>
> However this time UKIP has kept on going.

Because opposition to the UK has always been party-neutral.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

[Basil Jet]

On 2013\04\22 02:16, Bill wrote:
>
> I'm with David Cameron on this one, he said that he was sure there
> were some people in UKIP who weren't racists...

There's a black woman in my local group. Although, she hasn't been to
the last three meetings. Perhaps we've gassed her.

[White Spirit]

On 22/04/13 01:32, Basil Jet wrote:

> Any discussion of Ukip's nature has to consider that Ukip membership is
> growing so rapidly that existing members quickly become outnumbered by
> new members. My local group grew by a sixth in March, if you keep that
> going the membership will double every 4.5 months, so the membership of
> 13 months ago are outnumbered something like 7 to 1 by people who have
> joined since.

You're assuming that the growth in membership is sustainable.

[Basil Jet]

I assumed nothing of the sort, clearly it will plateau at some point in
the future, or it might already have happened in the last fortnight for
all I know. But the point I incompletely made was that even if Ukip had
consisted of nothing but pure Nazis on the day the Rotherham fostering
scandal hit, those people would by now be outnumbered by new members. I
suspect that the majority of our MPs in the next parliament are not
members today. With growth like that, drawing any conclusions about Ukip
as if it is a fixed entity is fallacious. UKIP is becoming the people
who are joining, it is not the people who are already in it. The people
who are joining are largely motivated by Farage's speeches. So whatever
you think Farage is, that is what Ukip is becoming. This is quite
different to the situation with the other three parties.

[Bill]

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:12:56 +0100, Basil Jet <no...@none.spamspam.com>
wrote:

That's an optimistic view, I do hope you're right.

[Bill]

No.

Elections are run in a very formal and structured manner with very
strict rules.

The ONLY way the BNP can know if there's a UKIP candidate standing in
a district is if someone in UKIP told them.

[Paul Hyett]

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 at 07:28:07, Paul Hyett <p...@invalid.invalid> wrote
in uk.politics.electoral :

>>
>>Parties of the right often fall away during a Tory government.
>>
>>Usually because their paymasters know they can gain more influence by
>>speaking to the Tories.
>>
>> However this time UKIP has kept on going.
>
>Because opposition to the UK has always been party-neutral.

I meant 'to the EU', of course! :p
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

[Basil Jet]

No, someone in UKIP could have told a friend in the Tories who announced
it at a Tory meeting where a BNP spy was present. Since UKIP ban former
BNP/NF members from joining but the Tories don't, this is a more likely
route.

[Bill]

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 18:25:29 +0100, Basil Jet <no...@none.spamspam.com>

And you feel this is something that has happened everywhere in the
country where there's a BNP presence?

Have you heard of 'Occam's Razor'?

Since UKIP ban former
>BNP/NF members from joining but the Tories don't, this is a more likely
>route.

It might happen once, or even twice, but everywhere?

[Vidcapper]

On 21/04/2013 08:42, Paul Hyett wrote:

> I happy to see a UKIP candidate standing for election in my local ward
> this time.

(St Marks & St Peters)

> http://www.cheltenham.gov.uk/info/362/elections/906/gloucestershire_county_council_elections_and_warden_hill_by-election/2

A strong 2nd place - the best UKIP result in the town. :)

>
> I wonder how they'll do overall, though?

Very well, from what I've seen so far!

--
Regards,

Paul Hyett

[Basil Jet]

What time do the winning Tory candidates start defecting?

[Optimist]

On Fri, 03 May 2013 08:35:26 +0100, Basil Jet <no...@none.spamspam.com> wrote:

>What time do the winning Tory candidates start defecting?

If you put an "a" in that word, the Tory high command already are!

[Ophelia]

"Basil Jet" <no...@none.spamspam.com> wrote in message
news:518368be$0$23486$5b6a...@news.zen.co.uk...

> What time do the winning Tory candidates start defecting?

Ooops I first read that as 'defecating'. I was about to say it is probably
already happening:)

--
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http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[Basil Jet]

On 2013\05\03 11:00, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "Basil Jet" <no...@none.spamspam.com> wrote in message
> news:518368be$0$23486$5b6a...@news.zen.co.uk...
>> What time do the winning Tory candidates start defecting?
>
> Ooops I first read that as 'defecating'. I was about to say it is
> probably already happening:)

I love it when you talk dirty to me!
Just don't say "Lib Dems" or I may lose my deposit.

[Ophelia]

"Optimist" <v.me...@i.do.not.believe.it> wrote in message
news:shq6o81gm0udqk53h...@4ax.com...

lol you just beat me to it;)

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[Ophelia]

"Basil Jet" <no...@none.spamspam.com> wrote in message

news:51838b62$0$1140$5b6a...@news.zen.co.uk...

Filthy swine:)

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