Guilty until proven innocent - new government policy
alan
>MINISTERS are considering proposals to make it
>harder for men to defend themselves against rape
>claims by saying that the woman consented to sex.
>Alleged rapists would have to offer proof that their
>victims participated "freely" in sex under the
>proposals, contained in a review set up by the
>Home Office.
Someone in here will undoubtedly know more than I do about the law, but
surely this would have to be a breach of human rights under the European
Convention thereon?
"Guilty until proven innocent" - I always thought that that was restricted
to petty dictators. I hadn't realised that New Labour was trying to join
that particular club.
regards,
/alan
Russell Horn
writes
>
>"Guilty until proven innocent" - I always thought that that was restricted
>to petty dictators. I hadn't realised that New Labour was trying to join
>that particular club.
You jest, surely?
New Labour have made quite a name for themselves in this league. In
fact, I'm sure they lead the rest of Europe from the front in this
matter.
Did you miss the move to abolish trial by jury - one of the most
fundamental rights being the right to be judged by one's peers. Or how
about the legislation so that the Police can tap your phone without a
warrant if you're a member of a trade union or political party. Part of
that legislation will also mean that if you use encryption software and
refuse to hand over your private key on request will leave you subject
to a two year prison term. A presumption of guilt, combined with
throwing the right not to incriminate oneself into the waste-bin.
--
Russell Horn
This edition of my .sig has been shortened due to industrial inaction.
Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible.
Cliff Morrison
<ne...@alba1314.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <8chspl$h3t$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, alan <a...@my-deja.com>
> writes
> >
> >"Guilty until proven innocent" - I always thought that that was restricted
> >to petty dictators. I hadn't realised that New Labour was trying to join
> >that particular club.
>
> You jest, surely?
>
> New Labour have made quite a name for themselves in this league. In
> fact, I'm sure they lead the rest of Europe from the front in this
> matter.
>
> Did you miss the move to abolish trial by jury - one of the most
> fundamental rights being the right to be judged by one's peers. Or how
> about the legislation so that the Police can tap your phone without a
> warrant if you're a member of a trade union or political party. Part of
> that legislation will also mean that if you use encryption software and
> refuse to hand over your private key on request will leave you subject
> to a two year prison term. A presumption of guilt, combined with
> throwing the right not to incriminate oneself into the waste-bin.
It isn't the *petty* dictators' club that NuLab aspire to....
Marco Biagi
services to track e-mails, mobile phone calls and probably even what you're
cooking in your microwave.
Hmm, maybe it would be fun to send lots of e-mails, filling them with
interesting keywords like "revolution", "Marxism", "republicanism",
"proletariat", or "Tony Blair's a giant girl's blouse" and hope they have
fun reading them all down in Whitehall.
Marco.
Cliff Morrison
<Ma...@biagi.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
But who doesn't do that anyway?
jdc
> >MINISTERS are considering proposals to make it
> >harder for men to defend themselves against rape
> >claims by saying that the woman consented to sex.
> >Alleged rapists would have to offer proof that their
> >victims participated "freely" in sex under the
> >proposals, contained in a review set up by the
> >Home Office.
>
> Someone in here will undoubtedly know more than I do about the law, but
> surely this would have to be a breach of human rights under the European
> Convention thereon?
Dunno. I think it works that way in New Zealand. We have other 'strict
liability' crimes, which is different from saying "guilty until proven
innocent". Receiving stolen goods for instance.
Fairly reasonable principle, problem of the actual proof, as ever.
jdcxxx
Russell Horn
Hash: SHA1
In article <8co6he$2ru$2...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, Marco Biagi
<Ma...@biagi.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>Hmm, maybe it would be fun to send lots of e-mails, filling them with
>interesting keywords like "revolution", "Marxism", "republicanism",
>"proletariat", or "Tony Blair's a giant girl's blouse" and hope they have
>fun reading them all down in Whitehall.
This list appeared over on a Demon newsgroup, it should do the trick. We
can now safely assume that this newsgroup is being monitored ;-)
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- --
Russell Horn
This edition of my .sig has been shortened due to industrial inaction.
Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible.
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Gareth Jones
>You forget the infamous Echelon system, which allows the UK/US secret
>services to track e-mails, mobile phone calls and probably even what you're
>cooking in your microwave.
>Hmm, maybe it would be fun to send lots of e-mails, filling them with
>interesting keywords like "revolution", "Marxism", "republicanism",
>"proletariat", or "Tony Blair's a giant girl's blouse" and hope they have
>fun reading them all down in Whitehall.
I suspect that echelon uses something slightly more sophisticated then
grep for filtering email.
Gareth
Matthew M. Huntbach
Someone told me that a leading commercially available "net nanny" product
flagged my academic website as one which could not be accessed. Hard to
see why - all it does is list my research interests, what I teach and ...
ah ... a little bit at the bottom which mentions my other interests
including the word "liberal". I guess this net-nanny regards any page
with the word "liberal" on it as suspect, since "liberal" is a swear-word
in the USA.
Matthew Huntbach
alan
Scary - I had thought that New Zealand was a fairly reasonable place, with
laws based on the generally more reasonable Scots legal system rather than
England's abominations...
Sounds a good place to steer clear of
regards,
/alan
anybody
'Livingstone'
Guaranteed to set off every alarm in Millbank :-)
Russell Horn <ne...@alba1314.demon.co.uk>
We
> can now safely assume that this newsgroup is being monitored ;-)
>
>
> Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators,
etc...etc...
<snip method of upsetting GCHQ>
jdc
> >Dunno. I think it works that way in New Zealand. We have other 'strict
> >liability' crimes, which is different from saying "guilty until proven
> >innocent". Receiving stolen goods for instance.
>
> Scary - I had thought that New Zealand was a fairly reasonable place, with
> laws based on the generally more reasonable Scots legal system rather
> than England's abominations...
>
> Sounds a good place to steer clear of
The New Zealand Men's Rights Association refer to the current rape law as
defining rape as "anything a woman later wishes she hadn't done", but I
think that's beyond parody, in fact. The whole area is a rather complex one,
and someone's going to be hard done by whatever law you face - the best
thing is to have a fairly vague law and ensure juries decide what is just by
the standards of ordinary people - then you run into the problem of what
evidence it is legitimate to present.
jdcxxx
Roger Dewhurst
>
>The New Zealand Men's Rights Association refer to the current rape law as
>defining rape as "anything a woman later wishes she hadn't done", but I
>think that's beyond parody, in fact. The whole area is a rather complex one,
>and someone's going to be hard done by whatever law you face - the best
>thing is to have a fairly vague law and ensure juries decide what is just by
>the standards of ordinary people - then you run into the problem of what
>evidence it is legitimate to present.
> then you run into the problem of what
>evidence it is legitimate to present.
Exactly. The judges can fuck up anything.
Kippa
Matthew M. Huntbach <m...@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:8cs253$pj0$5...@beta.qmw.ac.uk...
Michael Beckwith:
One of my concerns is that the secret services are doing work which should
be carried out by the police. I think that this may be a result of the
police being
constantly grilled by the media about breaches in their procedures, and as a
result the work is being shifted to the security services so that there will
be
less "media grillings". If this is true then it means that legislation like
PACE
and the data protection act go out of the window, and that the citizens of
the
state have less rights as a result.
My opinion is that the definition of what a "terrorist" is has been dumbed
down
to include corperate fraud and lesser criminal activities. The security
services
are there for a reason, they shouldn't be taking on police work just because
it
is inconvienient for politicians when the police fuck things up.