Welsh Assembly: The Nominations
David Boothroyd
the Conservative candidate in Pontypridd failed to get her nomination papers
in on time.
WELSH ASSEMBLY CANDIDATES
BOROUGHS
CARDIFF, CENTRAL
Mark Drakeford Lab
Julian Goss U Soc
Stephen Jones C
Jenny E. Randerson L Dem
Owen John Thomas PC
CARDIFF, NORTH
Susan (Sue) L. Essex Lab
Colin Mann PC
Alastair Meikle L Dem
Jonathan B. Morgan C
CARDIFF, SOUTH and PENARTH
Lorraine Barrett Lab
David Bartlett U Soc
Mary R. Davies C
Tom Davies Ind - Celtic Alliance
John Foreman Ind Lab
Jane Maw-Cornish L Dem
John Rowlands PC
CARDIFF, WEST
Myranna (Myr) Boult C
M. Eluned Bush PC
Dewi Garrow-Smith L Dem
H. Rhodri Morgan MP Lab
SWANSEA, EAST
John G. Ball PC
Peter M. Black L Dem
Valerie (Val) A. Feld Lab
William (Bill) Hughes C
SWANSEA, WEST
Andrew Davies Lab
David C. Evans Ind
John R. Harris P Rep
David (Dai) R. Lloyd PC
John Newbury L Dem
Alec Thraves U Soc
Paul H. Valerio C
COUNTIES
CLWYD, ALYN and DEESIDE
Jeffrey (Jeff) J. Clarke L Dem
John M. Cooksey Ind
Glyn Davies CPB
Neil A. Formstone C
Thomas (Tom) Middlehurst Lab
Ann Owen PC
CLWYD, CLWYD SOUTH
Derek W.L. Burnham L Dem
David R. Jones C
Maurice Jones U Soc
Karen Sinclair Lab
Hywel Williams PC
CLWYD, CLWYD WEST
Robina L. Feeley L Dem
Alun J. Pugh Lab
Roderick (Rod) Richards C
Eilian S. Williams PC
CLWYD, DELYN
Eleanor Burnham L Dem
Marged (Meg) A. Ellis PC
Alison M. Halford Lab
Karen E. Lumley C
CLWYD, VALE of CLWYD
Siôn Brynach PC
Gwynn A. Clague Ind - Dem. All. Wales
M. Ann Jones Lab
D. Phillip (Phil) Lloyd L Dem
David A.P. Pennant Ind
David I. Roberts Ind
A. Robert Salisbury C
CLWYD, WREXHAM
Felicity A.L. Elphick C
John Marek MP Lab
Janet Ryder PC
Carole G.T. O'Toole L Dem
DYFED, CARMARTHEN EAST and DINEFWR
Juliana M-J. Hughes L Dem
Christopher (Chris) W. Llewellyn Lab
Helen Stoddart C
H. Rhodri G. Thomas PC
DYFED, CARMARTHEN WEST and SOUTH PEMBROKESHIRE
William E.V.J. Davies Ind
David G. Edwards C
Graham T.R. Fry TFPW
Christine M. Gwyther Lab
D.J. Roy Llewellyn PC
Roger H. Williams L Dem
DYFED, CEREDIGION
Maria Battle Lab
David Bradney GP
D. Doiran Evans L Dem
Elin Jones PC
Henri Lloyd Davies C
DYFED, LLANELLI
Timothy (Tim) R. Dumper L Dem
L. Ann Garrard Lab/Co-op
J. Barrington (Barrie) Harding C
Helen Mary Jones PC
Anthony G. Popham Ind
DYFED, PRESELI PEMBROKESHIRE
Felix F.E. Aubel C
Conrad L. Bryant PC
Dr. Richard J. Edwards Lab
David G.B. Lloyd L Dem
Alwyn C. Luke Ind
MID GLAMORGAN, BRIDGEND
Alun H. Cairns C
Jeffrey (Jeff) Canning PC
Rob Humphreys L Dem
Allan Jones Ind
Carwyn Jones Lab
MID GLAMORGAN, CAERPHILLY
Rt Hon Ronald (Ron) Davies MP Lab
Michael J. German L Dem
Robert W. Gough PC
Timothy Richards U Soc
Mary Taylor C
MID GLAMORGAN, CYNON VALLEY
Christine Chapman Lab
Edmund R. Hayward C
Phillip (Phil) Richards PC
Alison Willmot L Dem
MID GLAMORGAN. MERTHYR TYDFIL and RHYMNEY
Alun G. Cox PC
Carol Hyde C
Mike Jenkins U Soc
Elwyn Jones L Dem
Huw Lewis Lab
Tony Rogers Ind
MID GLAMORGAN, OGMORE
Janice Gregory Lab
Ralph Hughes Ind
John D. Rogers PC
Christopher (Chris) Smart C
Sheila (Ramsay-)Waye L Dem
MID GLAMORGAN, PONTYPRIDD
Jane Davidson Lab
Roger Griffiths CPB
Bleddyn Hancock PC
Gianni Orsi L Dem
Paul Phillips Ind
MID GLAMORGAN, RHONDDA
Wayne A. David MEP Lab
Geraint Davies PC
Peter Harbins C
Glyndwr Summers Ind
Meurig Williams L Dem
SOUTH GLAMORGAN, VALE OF GLAMORGAN
Christopher (Chris) P. Franks PC
Jane E. Hutt Lab
Frank Little L Dem
David R.M. Melding C
WEST GLAMORGAN, ABERAVON
Captain Beany [Barry Kirk] Ind - New Mill. Bean
D. Keith Davies L Dem
Janet Davies PC
Mary E. Davies C
Brian J. Gibbons Lab
David H. Pudner U Soc
WEST GLAMORGAN, GOWER
Howard W. Evans L Dem
Edwina Hart Lab
Rev. Aled D. Jones C
Dyfan Rhys Jones PC
Richard D. Lewis Ind
Ioan M. Richard P Rep
WEST GLAMORGAN, NEATH
Jill F. Chambers C
David R. Davies L Dem
Nicholas Duncan U Soc
D. Trefor Jones PC
Gwenda Thomas Lab
GWENT, BLAENAU GWENT
Peter J. Law Lab/Co-op
S. Keith Rogers L Dem
David N. Thomas C
Philip (Phil) J.S. Williams PC
GWENT, ISLWYN
Caroline J. Bennett L Dem
Brian J. Hancock PC
Christopher (Chris) Stevens C
Shane Williams Lab
GWENT, MONMOUTH
Anthony R. Carrington Ind - Monmouthshire
David T.C. Davies C
Marc A. Hubbard PC
Christopher (Chris) P. Lines L Dem
Cherry R.P. Short Lab
GWENT, NEWPORT EAST
Alistair R. Cameron L Dem
John Griffiths Lab
Chris K. Holland PC
Mark A. Major C
GWENT, NEWPORT WEST
Rosemary Butler Lab
William Graham C
A. Robert (Bob) Vickery PC
Veronica K. Watkins L Dem
GWENT, TORFAEN
Michael B. Gough Ind Lab
Jean E. Gray L Dem
Lynne Neagle Lab
Ingrid A. Nutt Ind
Stephen P. Smith Ind Soc
Kathleen (Kay) P. Thomas C
Noel G. Turner PC
GWYNEDD, CAERNARFON
Tom Jones Lab
Bronwen Naish C
David P. Shankland L Dem
Rt Hon Dafydd W. Wigley MP PC
GWYNEDD, CONWY
Goronwy O. Edwards Ind
Christine M. Humphries L Dem
David I. Jones C
Gareth Jones PC
Cathryn (Cath) Sherrington Lab
GWYNEDD, MEIRIONNYDD NANT CONWY
Dafydd Elis-Thomas (Lord Elis-Thomas of Nant
Conwy) PC
Denise I. Jones Lab
Owen John Williams C
Graham Worley L Dem
GWYNEDD, YNYS MON
James H. Clarke L Dem
Ieuan Wyn Jones MP PC
Albert Owen Lab
Peter S. Rogers C
POWYS, BRECON and RADNORSHIRE
Prof. Nicholas (Nick) H. Bourne C
Ian Jones Lab
David T. Petersen PC
Michael W. Shaw Ind
V. Kirstyn (Kirsty) Williams L Dem
POWYS, MONTGOMERYSHIRE
Michael (Mick) J. Bates L Dem
E. Glyn Davies C
Christopher (Chris) S. Hewitt Lab
David H. Senior PC
REGIONAL LISTS
MID and WEST WALES
Conservative
1 Prof. Nicholas (Nick) H. Bourne
2 E. Glyn Davies
3 Owen John Williams
4 Felix F.E. Aubel
5 David G. Edwards
6 Helen Stoddart
7 Henri Lloyd Davies
8 J. Barrington (Barrie) G. Harding
9 John Morgan
10 Nigel D. Bowie
11 Kenneth A. Cross
Green Party
1 David Bradney
2 Sarah Scott-Cato
3 Susan M. Walker
4 Timothy Shaw
5 Timothy J. Foster
Independent
1 Suzanne (Suzy) J. Turner
Labour
1 Rt. Hon. Alun E. Michael MP
2 M. Delyth Evans
3 H. Vaughan ap D. Gething
4 Sioned Mair Richards
Liberal Democrat
1 Roger H. Williams
2 Juliana M-J. Hughes
3 R. Graham Brown
4 David G.B. Lloyd
5 D. Doiran Evans
6 Timothy R. Dumper
7 Nicholas (Nick) C. Burree
8 Richard H. Tyler
9 Louis H. Williams
10 David M.S. Gwynant
11 Huw Davies
12 Deanna J. Leboff
Natural Law Party
1 Richard P. Johnson
2 Peter N. Warburton
3 Dierdre Sleenan
4 John E. Edwards
5 Janet Ayliffe
6 Roger P. Edwards
7 Anne Marie Scott
Plaid Cymru
1 Helen Mary Jones
2 Cynog G. Dafis MP
3 Delyth Richards
4 David H. Senior
5 David T. Peterson
6 Simon Thomas
7 Elenor E. Bonner-Evans
8 Alun Lloyd Jones
Socialist Labour Party
1 Richard G.W.P. Booth
2 Miriam Bowen
3 Martha Page-Harries
4 George D. Tofarides
NORTH WALES
Communist Party of Britain
1 Glyn D. Thomas
2 Alfred Williams
3 Greg Foster
4 Kenneth W. Davies
Conservative
1 Roderick (Rod) Richards
2 Peter S. Rogers
3 David I. Jones
4 Karen E. Lumley
5 Neil A. Formstone
6 David R. Jones
7 Bronwen Naish
8 Felicity A.L. Elphick
9 Robert A. Salisbury
10 Janet E. Finch-Saunders
11 Jacqueline E. Jones
12 Merfyn Thomas
Green Party
1 James. E. Killoch
2 Christopher C. Busby
3 Robin F. Welch
4 Klaus A. Braun
5 Angela W. Loveridge
6 Alexandra Jane Plows
7 Kathryn Turner
8 Gwilyn Morris
9 Sarah J. Collick
Labour
1 Tom Jones
2 Margaret Pritchard
3 Eifion W. Williams
4 Nia Roberts
Liberal Democrat
1 Christine M. Humphreys
2 Eleanor Burnham
3 D. Philip (Phil) Lloyd
4 Robina L. Feeley
5 Jeffrey (Jeff) J. Clarke
6 Carole G.T. O'Toole
7 James H. Clarke
8 Derek W.L. Burnham
9 David P. Shankland
10 Thomas P. Rippeth
11 John T. Jones
12 Paul J. Brighton
Natural Law Party
1 David Hughes
2 Thomas Mullins
3 Jean Leadbetter
4 Gwyndaf Evans
5 Susan Parry
Plaid Cymru
1 Janet Ryder
2 Siôn Brynach
3 Fflur G. Roberts
4 Gwynfor Owen
5 Eilian S. Williams
6 Ann Owen
7 Hywel Williams
8 Paul J. Rowlinson
Rhyddlan Debt Protest Campaign
1 Colin L. Hughes
2 David K. Neal
United Socialists
1 Maurice Jones
2 Janet Williams
3 David Clarke
4 Lyn Owen
SOUTH WALES CENTRAL
Communist Party of Britain
1 Robert Griffiths
2 Dominic Macaskill
3 Owen Griffiths
4 Frances Rawlings
Conservative
1 Jonathan B. Morgan
2 David R.M. Melding
3 Stephen Jones
4 Susan Inglefield
5 Peter Hobbins
6 Edward R. Hayward
7 Mary R. Davies
8 Myranna (Myr) Boult
9 Dorothy Turner
10 Maureen Kelly-Owen
11 Philip Meyer
12 Clarissa Box
Green Party
1 Kevin Jakeway
2 John Matthews
3 Vivien Turner
4 Christopher J. Von Ruhland
Independent
1 Alun Mathias
Independent
1 Paul Phillips
Labour
1 H. Rhodri Morgan MP
2 Susan (Sue) L. Essex
3 Ken Hopkins
4 Wendy Morgan
Liberal Democrat
1 Jenny E. Randerson
2 Gianni Orsi
3 Jacqueline-Anne (Jacqui) Gasson
4 Alison L. Willott
5 Alastair Meikle
6 Meurig Williams
7 Jane Maw-Cornish
8 Frank Little
9 Rodney Berman
10 A. John Dixon
11 Nigel Howells
12 Jonathan Aylwin
Natural Law Party
1 Helen Evans
2 Brian Francis
3 Barbara Caves
4 Geoffrey Salt
Plaid Cymru
1 Pauline Jarman
2 Owen John Thomas
3 Eluned Bush
4 Bleddyn Hancock
5 Phil Richards
6 Chris Franks
7 Meic Stephens
8 Carole Willis
Socialist Labour Party
1 Liz Screen
2 Steve Bell
3 Cerian Gotthardt
4 Mary Crofton
United Socialists
1 Nimisha Triveti
2 David Bartlett
3 Rachel Eborall
4 Terry James
SOUTH WALES EAST
Conservative
1 David T.C. Davies
2 William Graham
3 Carole M. Hyde
4 Mary Taylor
5 Christopher (Chris) Stevens
6 Kathleen (Kay) P. Thomas
7 David N. Thomas
8 Mark A. Major
9 David T. Fouweather
10 Ian Oakley
11 Marrilyn J. Smart
12 Ralph Tuck
Green Party
1 Roger W. Coghill
2 Elaine Ross
3 Kevin Williams
4 Robert O.L. Clarke
Labour
1 Angela Ash
2 Brian E. Smith
3 Cherry R.P. Short
4 Miqdad Al-Nuaimi
5 Ian Thomas
6 Timothy Richards
Liberal Democrats
1 Michael (Mike) J. German
2 Veronica K. Watkins
3 Alistair R. Cameron
4 Jean E. Gray
5 Simon K. Rogers
6 Caroline J. Bennett
7 Alwyn V. Jones
8 Christopher P. Lines
9 Russell M. Deacon
10 Huw Price
11 Duncan Anstey
12 Melvyn W. Roffe
Natural Law Party
1 John Ashforth
2 Sian Trenberth
3 Peter Herman
4 Paul Lloyd
Plaid Cymru
1 Jocelyn A. Davies
2 Dr Philip (Phil) J.S. Williams
3 Gillian (Gill) M. Jones
4 Lindsay G. Whittle
5 Marc A. Hubbard
6 Philip (Phil) J. Bevan
7 Alun G. Cox
8 John Taylor
Socialist Labour Party
1 Darren C. Hickery
2 Susan L. Deare
3 Robert J. Morris
4 Peter Bowen
United Socialists
1 Richard Morse
SOUTH WALES WEST
Conservative
1 Alun H. Cairns
2 Christopher (Chris) B. Smart
3 Bill Hughes
4 Paul H. Valerio
5 Jill F. Chambers
6 Rev. Aled D. Jones
7 Mary E. Davies
8 Martyn Ford
9 Wayne Morris
10 David A. Unwin
11 Matthew C. Voisey
Green Party
1 Graham E. (Brig) Oubridge
2 Lee Turner
3 Janet Bronwyn Evans
4 Simon K. Phillips
Labour
1 Mair Francis
2 D. Hywel Francis
3 Robert (Bob) Smith
4 Moira Singh
Liberal Democrat
1 Peter M. Black
2 Robert (Rob) O. Humphreys
3 Howard W. Evans
4 D. Keith Davies
5 Sheila Waye
6 David R. Davies
7 Marilyn Harris
8 Ronald (Ron) L. McConville
9 Cheryl A. Green
10 Alison E. Jenner
11 Norah Page
12 Clayton L. Ritchie
Natural Law Party
1 Neil D. Phillips
2 Diana Leighton
3 Robert A. Johnstone
4 Andrea K. Jarman
People's Representative
1 John R. Harris
2 Ioan M. Richard
3 Peter G. Harris
4 David N. Trollope
5 Margaret L. Harris
6 Peter J. Northcott
Plaid Cymru
1 Janet Davies
2 Dr David (Dai) R. Lloyd
3 Sara E. Reid
4 Delme I. Bowen
5 Stephen Cornelius
6 Dr. John G. Ball
7 Ian R. Titherington
8 Yvonne M. Davies
United Socialists
1 Alec Thraves
2 Alan Thomson
3 Robert Williams
4 Neil MacPherson
TOTAL NUMBER OF CANDIDATES
Constituency Seats
Party Candidates
Lab 40
L Dem 40
PC 40
C 39
Ind 20
U Soc 8
CPB 2
Ind Lab 2
P Rep 2
GP 1
Ind Soc 1
TFPW 1
TOTAL 196
Regional Lists
Party Lists Candidates
L Dem 5 60
C 5 58
PC 5 40
GP 5 26
NLP 5 24
Lab 5 22
U Soc 4 13
S Lab P 3 12
CPB 2 8
P Rep 1 6
Ind 3 3
Ind - Rhyddlan Debt 1 2
TOTAL 44 274
Paul Hyett
this considered view. To keep the thread going, I replied -
>The nominations for the Welsh Assembly are out. The big surprise is that
>the Conservative candidate in Pontypridd failed to get her nomination papers
>in on time.
Oh no, they've thrown away their chance of winning it then! :)
Seriously though, I wonder how the disenfranchised Tory vote will split
(as if it'd make any difference)!
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham, England
Colin Rosenstiel
da...@election.demon.co.uk (David Boothroyd) wrote:
Correction:
> MID GLAMORGAN, CYNON VALLEY
> Alison Willmot L Dem
She is Alison Willott, same as:
> SOUTH WALES CENTRAL
> Liberal Democrat
> 4 Alison L. Willott.
Queries:
> WEST GLAMORGAN, ABERAVON
>
> Captain Beany [Barry Kirk] Ind - New Mill. Bean
Eh? What is his full name as given on his nomination?
> GWYNEDD, CAERNARFON
> Rt Hon Dafydd W. Wigley MP PC
When did he become a Privy Councillor?
--
Cllr. Colin Rosenstiel
Cambridge http://www.cix.co.uk/~rosenstiel/
Cambridge Liberal Democrats: http://www.gwydir.demon.co.uk/camlibdems/
Alun Pugh
Boothroyd <da...@election.demon.co.uk> writes
>The nominations for the Welsh Assembly are out. The big surprise is that
>the Conservative candidate in Pontypridd failed to get her nomination papers
>in on time.
Its a cunning plan to save 500 quid :-)
>CLWYD, CLWYD WEST
>
>Robina L. Feeley L Dem
>Alun J. Pugh Lab
>Roderick (Rod) Richards C
>Eilian S. Williams PC
And this one is a two horse race. Although every vote counts in the N
Wales list only me and Rod Richards have a realistic chance in Clwyd
West.
Plaid and Lib Dems need to consider who is the more acceptable
candidate.
Alun Pugh
www.welsh-assembly.demon.co.uk
David Boothroyd
rosen...@cix.co.uk wrote:
> In article <david-09049...@election.demon.co.uk>,
> da...@election.demon.co.uk (David Boothroyd) wrote:
>
> Correction:
>
> > MID GLAMORGAN, CYNON VALLEY
>
> > Alison Willmot L Dem
>
> She is Alison Willott, same as:
>
> > SOUTH WALES CENTRAL
>
> > Liberal Democrat
>
> > 4 Alison L. Willott.
Thanks. I wondered about this, as Alison Willott fought a south-west
London seat at the 1997 election, and when she appeared on the Lib Dem
list I wondered whether it was the same one. The 'Western Mail' (from
which I got this list) must have made a mistake.
> Queries:
>
> > WEST GLAMORGAN, ABERAVON
> >
> > Captain Beany [Barry Kirk] Ind - New Mill. Bean
>
> Eh? What is his full name as given on his nomination?
Captain Beany. Barry Kirk was his original name and the name under
which he fought the Neath byelection of 1991, but before the 1992 election
he changed his name to Captain Beany. He is a local charity fundraiser
who dresses all in orange and calls himself a 'human baked bean'.
> > GWYNEDD, CAERNARFON
>
> > Rt Hon Dafydd W. Wigley MP PC
>
> When did he become a Privy Councillor?
In 1997.
Colin Rosenstiel
da...@election.demon.co.uk (David Boothroyd) wrote:
> In article <memo.19990410...@rosenstiel.cix.co.uk>,
> rosen...@cix.co.uk wrote:
> > In article <david-09049...@election.demon.co.uk>,
> > da...@election.demon.co.uk (David Boothroyd) wrote:
> >
> > Correction:
> >
> > > MID GLAMORGAN, CYNON VALLEY
> >
> > > Alison Willmot L Dem
> >
> > She is Alison Willott, same as:
> >
> > > SOUTH WALES CENTRAL
> >
> > > Liberal Democrat
> >
> > > 4 Alison L. Willott.
>
> Thanks. I wondered about this, as Alison Willott fought a south-west
> London seat at the 1997 election, and when she appeared on the Lib Dem
> list I wondered whether it was the same one. The 'Western Mail' (from
> which I got this list) must have made a mistake.
She was candidate in Wimbledon (and a Merton council candidate and maybe
councillor, I forget) but moved to Wales a year or more ago. She is a
member of the Party's Federal Executive elected by the conference.
I.K. Ridley
Alun Pugh <al...@welsh-assembly.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <david-09049...@election.demon.co.uk>, David
>Boothroyd <da...@election.demon.co.uk> writes
>>The nominations for the Welsh Assembly are out. The big surprise is that
>>the Conservative candidate in Pontypridd failed to get her nomination papers
>>in on time.
>
>Its a cunning plan to save 500 quid :-)
Is there a desposit in the assembly elections and what is the min. voted needed
to save it?
WRT to your site:
1) Should it have an imprint?
2) "The UK election in May 98"????? Eeally, I expect better from Millbank.
3) There was no "Lib" candidate in Clwyd West in 1997. There was however a
Lib Dem.
4) Plaid and Lib Dems as "minority parties"? What is a "majority party"?
Certainly not Labour or the Tories as neither polled over 50% in 1997.
Ian Ridley
"Intelligence? Intelligence has nothing to do with politics", Ambassador Londo
Mollari, Babylon 5. Views expressed may not be those of Leicester University
or LU Lib Dems: http://www.le.ac.uk/CWIS/SU/SO/LDSOC/ldsoc.html (includes the
Leics and Rutland Election Archive). Babylon 5 "Crusade" Episode 1 air date
unknown.
Jason Thomas Williams
North Wales ?
In article <Kr$w0WAQe...@activist.demon.co.uk>,
Paul Hyett <pah...@activist.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Apr 1999, David Boothroyd <da...@election.demon.co.uk> stated
> this considered view. To keep the thread going, I replied -
> >The nominations for the Welsh Assembly are out. The big surprise is that
> >the Conservative candidate in Pontypridd failed to get her nomination papers
> >in on time.
>
> Oh no, they've thrown away their chance of winning it then! :)
>
> Seriously though, I wonder how the disenfranchised Tory vote will split
> (as if it'd make any difference)!
> --
> Paul Hyett, Cheltenham, England
>
***********************************************************************
Jason Thomas Williams
London 1999
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
David Boothroyd
<jasont...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>
> What chances do the third place candidates on the list stand? In Mid Wales and
> North Wales ?
Depends which list they are on. See
http://www.election.demon.co.uk/welsh97.html for how the list seats would
have been allocated on the basis of 1997 general election votes.
Lyn David Thomas
>
> In article <david-09049...@election.demon.co.uk>, David
> Boothroyd <da...@election.demon.co.uk> writes
> >the Conservative candidate in Pontypridd failed to get her nomination
> >papers in on time.
>
:-) it would be pleasing if this was true - but in reality even
now I think that they could scrape together 5% of the vote in
Pontypridd.
> >CLWYD, CLWYD WEST
> >
> >Robina L. Feeley L Dem
> >Alun J. Pugh Lab
> >Roderick (Rod) Richards C
> >Eilian S. Williams PC
>
> And this one is a two horse race. Although every vote counts in the N
> Wales list only me and Rod Richards have a realistic chance in Clwyd
> West.
I'll grant you that you two are the most likely front runners in this
race, but don't discount the opposition so lightly. Should we only
have contests between two parties in any one seat? A bit undemocratic
I think.
> Plaid and Lib Dems need to consider who is the more acceptable
> candidate.
Thier own I'd imagine.
--
__
*Lyn David Thomas* \/
Web pages start at
http://www.stuffing.demon.co.uk/lyn
David J Freeland
Paul Hyett wrote in message ...
>On Fri, 9 Apr 1999, David Boothroyd <da...@election.demon.co.uk> stated
>this considered view. To keep the thread going, I replied -
>>the Conservative candidate in Pontypridd failed to get her nomination
papers
>>in on time.
>
>
>Seriously though, I wonder how the disenfranchised Tory vote will split
>(as if it'd make any difference)!
>--
>Paul Hyett, Cheltenham, England
I am surprised at this revelation in Pontypridd as I have Susan Inglefield
listed as the candidate. That comes directly from David Boothby's election
site too! Below follows my analysis of the Pontypridd by-election of 1989
which I submitted as part of my Modern Studies dissertation. I do not for
one second expect that the result on May 6 will be identical but it does
perhaps give us a better sense of the constituency:
The Welsh Nationalists have been vying with the Conservatives for
recognition as the second party of Wales. Their claim was substantiated at
Pontypridd in February 1989 after a by-election caused by the death of the
sitting MP.
The opportunity for Plaid Cymru to win was growing even before the writ for
the by-election was moved. At the last round of elections to Taff-Ely
Borough Council, Plaid Cymru held 9 out of 37 wards in the constituency. The
early indications of an opinion poll in the South Wales Echo showed that for
the first time in Wales, local council and Westminster preferences would be
roughly the same. This immediately increased the Nationalists ratings
fivefold. The strong local base in the Pontypridd area was certainly a key
element of the Blaid’s surge.
It also seemed to newspaper readers in Wales that Plaid Cymru were putting
so much pressure on Mrs Thatcher’s Government that Wales was benefiting.
Indeed, a leaked Cabinet paper confirmed that the Llanwern steelworks was to
be located in Wales to see off the Nationalist threat . Key aspects in the
campaign centred on the delayed opening of the new district hospital in
Taff-Ely, the Poll Tax and the controversial construction of a new bypass.
On these issues, the Nationalists campaigned hard for the floating and
disillusioned voters and those who had voted for them at a local level.
At the declaration, Plaid Cymru achieved what they previously could only
have dreamed of in east Wales. Previously they had been identified as “a
cult refined to West Wales and the Welsh-speakers”. This result established
them as a threat to Labour in the Valleys as well. However, at the 1992
General Election, the party’s vote was down from 25% to 9% and then to 6.5%
in 1997. Whatever challenge was mounted in February 1989, it was soon
quashed and normal voting patterns were reinstated. It would seem from this
that Pontypridd wanted to send Mrs Thatcher and Mr Kinnock about South
Wales: it was not to be taken for granted and must be listened to. However,
when the fate of the nation was at stake, the constituency did not want
Labour to potentially lose power because of one seat.
--
Cheerie an-drasda
Have Faith & Make Mezzamorphis A History Maker!
12th April At HMV Stores Everywhere!
Alun Pugh
writes
>
>Is there a desposit in the assembly elections and what is the min. voted needed
>to save it?
500 quid - and i think its 5% to get it back.
>
>WRT to your site:
>
>1) Should it have an imprint?
it does now - hadn't linked it :-(
>2) "The UK election in May 98"????? Eeally, I expect better from Millbank.
whoops my mishtake - btw this is not a millbank venture
>3) There was no "Lib" candidate in Clwyd West in 1997. There was however a
> Lib Dem.
fair point - changed it.
>4) Plaid and Lib Dems as "minority parties"? What is a "majority party"?
> Certainly not Labour or the Tories as neither polled over 50% in 1997.
Hmmm - not as minority as (say) the nat laws but that doesnt disguise
the fact that clwyd west is indeed a two horse race. It's Rod or me. Lib
Dems and Plaid members may well vote tactically to stop Mr Richards very
own brand of right wing extremism in the constituency ballot.
--
Alun Pugh
Lyn David Thomas
Which is, off course, unlikely to be anything like the list vote for
awarding seats in the Assembly elections....
Jason Thomas Williams
Mid Wales. I would of thought Plaid would pick up two list seats in the North
(due to their position in Ynys Mon ,and Caernafon and the Libs in Mid wales
due to their position in Mid wales.
What does the panel think?:)
In article <446171...@stuffing.demon.co.uk>,
***********************************************************************
Amanda Baird
>It also seemed to newspaper readers in Wales that Plaid Cymru were putting
>so much pressure on Mrs Thatcher’s Government that Wales was benefiting.
>Indeed, a leaked Cabinet paper confirmed that the Llanwern steelworks was
to
>be located in Wales to see off the Nationalist threat .
Since Llanwern was built in the late 50s and had been running for quite some
time before the By-Election discussed here, I suspect that this should have
read 'Llanwern Steelworks was located in Wales to see off the Nationanlist
threat.'
Incidentally, I wonder what impact the closure of Ravenscraig, Llanwern's
sister plant, had on the SNP vote in Motherwell. I visited the site just
after its closure, and what must have been a rough area to begin with was
absolutely devastated. In fact, I think that Motherwell at this time was
worse than anything I've seen in the valleys.
David J Freeland
Amanda Baird wrote in message <7eslep$mmr$1...@barcode.tesco.net>...
>
>
>>It also seemed to newspaper readers in Wales that Plaid Cymru were putting
>>so much pressure on Mrs Thatcher’s Government that Wales was benefiting.
>>Indeed, a leaked Cabinet paper confirmed that the Llanwern steelworks was
>to
>>be located in Wales to see off the Nationalist threat .
>
>Since Llanwern was built in the late 50s and had been running for quite
some
>time before the By-Election discussed here, I suspect that this should have
>read 'Llanwern Steelworks was located in Wales to see off the Nationanlist
>threat.'
This is very probably the case, but this sentence was attributed to an
article from the South Wales Echo so either they got it wrong, or I
mis-read.
>
>Incidentally, I wonder what impact the closure of Ravenscraig, Llanwern's
>sister plant, had on the SNP vote in Motherwell. I visited the site just
>after its closure, and what must have been a rough area to begin with was
>absolutely devastated. In fact, I think that Motherwell at this time was
>worse than anything I've seen in the valleys.
>
Motherwell & Wishaw was a slight anomaly in 1997. There was a swing from the
SNP TO Labour of 0.1&. OK, hardly anything to shout about but the
redevelopment of the area has been slow to come and the pressure has not
been taken off this constituency that is about 3 miles up the road from me.
The current majority in M&W is 12791, meaning that the SNP require a swing
of 17.5% to take it. I expect the majority to decline probably on average
with the rest of the country but it will still be a Labour stronghold on May
7th unless the catastrophe in North Lanarkshire Council knocks the Labour
candidate, Jack McConnell, for six.
Incidentally, McConnell is a huge Blairite and formerly general-secretary of
Scottish Labour at the last election, and there was a massive fight between
him and a TU person, I forget the exact details but I'm now re-evaluating my
projection as I read this...a 10% swing to the SNP? That's a very uninformed
and rough forecast! Feel free to chip in!
--
Cheerie an-drasda
Make It An SNP Hat Trick On May 6th!
Jim Riley
Boothroyd) wrote:
>The nominations for the Welsh Assembly are out. The big surprise is that
>the Conservative candidate in Pontypridd failed to get her nomination papers
>in on time.
Are the following candidates for constituency and regional seats the
same person?
SWANSEA, EAST
William (Bill) Hughes C
SOUTH WALES WEST
Conservative
3 Bill Hughes
===
DYFED, LLANELLI
J. Barrington (Barrie) Harding C
MID and WEST WALES
Conservative
8 J. Barrington (Barrie) G. Harding
===
MID GLAMORGAN. MERTHYR TYDFIL and RHYMNEY
Carol Hyde C
SOUTH WALES EAST
3 Carole M. Hyde
===
CLWYD, VALE of CLWYD
A. Robert Salisbury C
NORTH WALES
Conservative
9 Robert A. Salisbury
===
MID GLAMORGAN, OGMORE
Christopher (Chris) Smart C
SOUTH WALES WEST
Conservative
2 Christopher (Chris) B. Smart
===
MID GLAMORGAN, BRIDGEND
Rob Humphreys L Dem
SOUTH WALES WEST
Liberal Democrat
2 Robert (Rob) O. Humphreys
===
GWYNEDD, CONWY
Christine M. Humphries L Dem
NORTH WALES
Liberal Democrat
1 Christine M. Humphreys
===
CLWYD, VALE of CLWYD
D. Phillip (Phil) Lloyd L Dem
NORTH WALES
Liberal Democrat
3 D. Philip (Phil) Lloyd
===
MID GLAMORGAN, OGMORE
Sheila (Ramsay-)Waye L Dem
SOUTH WALES WEST
Liberal Democrat
5 Sheila Waye
===
SWANSEA, EAST
John G. Ball PC
SOUTH WALES WEST
Plaid Cymru
6 Dr. John G. Ball
===
CARDIFF, WEST
M. Eluned Bush PC
SOUTH WALES CENTRAL
Plaid Cymru
3 Eluned Bush
===
SOUTH GLAMORGAN, VALE OF GLAMORGAN
Christopher (Chris) P. Franks PC
SOUTH WALES CENTRAL
Plaid Cymru
6 Chris Franks
===
SWANSEA, WEST
David (Dai) R. Lloyd PC
SOUTH WALES WEST
Plaid Cymru
2 Dr David (Dai) R. Lloyd
===
MID GLAMORGAN, CYNON VALLEY
Phillip (Phil) Richards PC
SOUTH WALES CENTRAL
Plaid Cymru
5 Phil Richards
===
Are the following candidates designated as such on the ballot?
If they are elected, are they counted as Labour electees for
purposes of allocating the regional seats?
If they aren't counted as Labour, then isn't this a violation
of the pledge not to run under shadow labels?
And if they are counted as Labour, but on the ballot as Labour/Co-op,
won't this confuse or deceive voters, especially those who might
otherwise split their two votes?
DYFED, LLANELLI
L. Ann Garrard Lab/Co-op
Jim Riley
<dav...@nwisnbpouarnmeo.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>I am surprised at this revelation in Pontypridd as I have Susan Inglefield
>listed as the candidate. That comes directly from David Boothby's election
>site too!
Though she is listed as the #4 candidate in South Wales Central.
Dyfrig Thomas
wrote:
>Are the following candidates for constituency and regional seats the
>same person?
>SWANSEA, EAST
>John G. Ball PC
>
>SOUTH WALES WEST
>Plaid Cymru
>6 Dr. John G. Ball
Yes
>CARDIFF, WEST
>M. Eluned Bush PC
>
>SOUTH WALES CENTRAL
>Plaid Cymru
>3 Eluned Bush
>===
Yes
>SOUTH GLAMORGAN, VALE OF GLAMORGAN
>Christopher (Chris) P. Franks PC
>
>SOUTH WALES CENTRAL
>Plaid Cymru
>6 Chris Franks
Yes
>SWANSEA, WEST
>David (Dai) R. Lloyd PC
>
>SOUTH WALES WEST
>Plaid Cymru
>2 Dr David (Dai) R. Lloyd
Yes
>MID GLAMORGAN, CYNON VALLEY
>Phillip (Phil) Richards PC
>
>SOUTH WALES CENTRAL
>Plaid Cymru
>5 Phil Richards
Yes
>Are the following candidates designated as such on the ballot?
>If they are elected, are they counted as Labour electees for
>purposes of allocating the regional seats?
>
>If they aren't counted as Labour, then isn't this a violation
>of the pledge not to run under shadow labels?
>
>And if they are counted as Labour, but on the ballot as Labour/Co-op,
>won't this confuse or deceive voters, especially those who might
>otherwise split their two votes?
>
>DYFED, LLANELLI
>L. Ann Garrard Lab/Co-op
>
>GWENT, BLAENAU GWENT
>Peter J. Law Lab/Co-op
I presume that they will use the Red Rose logo. Other than that I can
not comment.
Dyfrig Thomas
Siop y Werin - Siop Lyfrau a Cherddoriaeth
Welsh Books and Music Shop
www.preseli.com/siopywerin
David Boothroyd
> On Fri, 09 Apr 1999 23:10:41 +0000, da...@election.demon.co.uk (David
> Boothroyd) wrote:
>
> >the Conservative candidate in Pontypridd failed to get her nomination papers
> >in on time.
>
> same person?
[snip list]
On my website, the candidates list for regional list seats includes
a reference to the constituencies (if any) they are fighting.
The address is http://www.election.demon.co.uk/welshcand.html
> Are the following candidates designated as such on the ballot?
> If they are elected, are they counted as Labour electees for
> purposes of allocating the regional seats?
>
> And if they are counted as Labour, but on the ballot as Labour/Co-op,
> won't this confuse or deceive voters, especially those who might
> otherwise split their two votes?
As far as I know, Labour and Co-operative candidates appear as such
on the ballot paper. If elected they count as Labour members. The
Co-operative Party was separately registered (no. 2) on the list of
political parties but presumably the register takes account of the
agreement between the Labour Party and the Co-operative Party, and
registration was simply to prevent candidates falsely claiming to be
from the Co-operative movement.
Colin Rosenstiel
da...@election.demon.co.uk (David Boothroyd) wrote:
> > Are the following candidates designated as such on the ballot?
> > If they are elected, are they counted as Labour electees for
> > purposes of allocating the regional seats?
> >
> > And if they are counted as Labour, but on the ballot as Labour/Co-op,
> > won't this confuse or deceive voters, especially those who might
> > otherwise split their two votes?
>
> As far as I know, Labour and Co-operative candidates appear as such
> on the ballot paper. If elected they count as Labour members. The
> Co-operative Party was separately registered (no. 2) on the list of
> political parties but presumably the register takes account of the
> agreement between the Labour Party and the Co-operative Party, and
> registration was simply to prevent candidates falsely claiming to be
> from the Co-operative movement.
I understand from my ERO that a Labour and Co-Operative candidate requires
two party "coupons", from the Labour Party and from the Co-Operative Party
delegated nominating officers. They were worrying about dealing with
Lab/Co-Op candidates in Cambridge but none have been nominated this year.
I gather the local Co-Operative movement isn't in the best of health.
Matthew M. Huntbach
> I understand from my ERO that a Labour and Co-Operative candidate requires
> two party "coupons", from the Labour Party and from the Co-Operative Party
> delegated nominating officers. They were worrying about dealing with
> Lab/Co-Op candidates in Cambridge but none have been nominated this year.
> I gather the local Co-Operative movement isn't in the best of health.
Maybe it would be in better health if it considered asserting some
independence from the Labour Party.
Matthew Huntbach
David Boothroyd
No it certainly wouldn't.
Matthew M. Huntbach
Well, okay then, what is the point of the Co-Operative Party? At present it
appears to mean nothing except that the occasional Labour candidate is
officially "Labour and Co-operative". I have never seen anything in practice
which distinguishes candidates and elected representatives with that label
from Labour Party candidates without it. It therefore appears to be
completely meaningless.
Matthew Huntbach
Martin Powell
> Well, okay then, what is the point of the Co-Operative Party?
> At present it appears to mean nothing except that the occasional
> Labour candidate is officially "Labour and Co-operative". I have
> never seen anything in practice which distinguishes candidates
> and elected representatives with that label from Labour
> Party candidates without it. It therefore appears to be
> completely meaningless.
Co-Op" candidate, who had clearly not even looked at the Co-Op manifesto,
unlike the Liberal candidate (Iain Brodie-Browne), who had read it fully
and agreed with much of it. He had great fun at public meetings by
disagreeing with the Lab & Co-Op candidate by quoting approvingly bits of
it. I don't think I've ever seen a Labour candidate squirm so much in a
single meeting.
Martin Powell
Matthew M. Huntbach
Exactly. If there was any value to the Co-operative Party, it would have
stopped backing Labour and started backing the Liberals years ago.
Matthew Huntbach
David Stone
Article <7fk5tm$c8h$1...@beta.qmw.ac.uk>, m...@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew M. Huntbach) wrote:
> Well, okay then, what is the point of the Co-Operative Party?
Political wing of the co-operative movement, i.e., Labour.
> At present it appears to mean nothing except that the occasional
> Labour candidate is officially "Labour and Co-operative".
Who is a supporter of the co-operative movement.
IIRC, the term Matthew M. Huntbach means something more
than an LD sycophant. Something not true of all his
fellow liberal democrats [sic(k)].
> I have never seen anything in practice which distinguishes candidates and
> elected representatives with that label from Labour Party candidates
> without it. It therefore appears to be completely meaningless.
So how then should the co-operative movement represent itself, politically?
What would he be saying if the move to affiliate Co-op Party to SDP
worked? Does LD Fockus Team exist as an entity. Can I join LDFT without
joinning LD and support its affiliation to Labour as Matthew can join
Co-op Party and <g on> support its affiliation to LD? <g off>
Should Labour allow affiliates to have different policies and programmes?
IIRC, the existance within Labour of Militant, a group with their
own different policies and programme, was a primary excuse given
by Matthew's "fellow Liberals" (scuse while I puke) for rejecting
Labour in their favour.
How does the Co-op manage in Downham, Matthew? They wouldn't have
a popular supermarket there by any chance would they? Next time
you're up for election, Matthew, will you be campaigning for
Lewisham LBC to close Downham Co-op replacing it with M&S?
I sense sour grapes and Matthew's usual habit of protesting too much.
NNO subject
I was going to say we can't havva a go at you for the Liberal/SDP
alliance because, IIRC, you hated the SDP. Therefore, for the
LD leadership you will support Charles Kennedy who came to LDs
from, errr., ?
--
David Stone
Article <374e4493....@news.pipeline.com>, jim...@pipeline.com (Jim Riley) wrote:
> Are the following candidates designated as such on the ballot?
> DYFED, LLANELLI
> L. Ann Garrard Lab/Co-op
>
> GWENT, BLAENAU GWENT
> Peter J. Law Lab/Co-op
Yes.
> If they are elected, are they counted as Labour electees for
> purposes of allocating the regional seats?
Yes.
> If they aren't counted as Labour, then isn't this a violation
> of the pledge not to run under shadow labels?
Doesn't happen.
> And if they are counted as Labour, but on the ballot as Labour/Co-op,
> won't this confuse or deceive voters, especially those who might
> otherwise split their two votes?
As a Labour affiliate, Co-op Party cannot have its own policies etc
(ask millie tendy). Co-op shop movement is a co-operative; i.e.
socialist. Co-op shops were closed shops when that was lawful.
(Yes that's right Ian, they never opened. Well done).
Since Co-op Party supports Labour always, splitting one's vote
is difficult to fathom. Margaret Hodge was a Co-op councillor
when she led Islington Council. Co-op Party does exist as a
separate entity but the practical differences for the elector
are next to nil. Co-op Party directly "sponsors" some Labour
candidates and they are Labour & Co-op. Co-op Party indirectly
"sponsors" all Labour candidates by paying affiliation fees.
I could ask the same question about LD and LD Focus Team. As
usual, Labour is accused and found guilty when our record is
exemplorary. There is a difference between Labour and Labour
& Co-op. The difference between LD and LDFT? What about
Conservative and Conservative & Unionist? Do the latter
take the UUP whip as well?
With the odd exception, everyone else on the High Street supports
the Tories, esp BSM.
--
Matthew M. Huntbach
> As a Labour affiliate, Co-op Party cannot have its own policies etc
> (ask millie tendy).
Since the Co-operative Party cannot have its own policies and does not
put up candidates independently for election, it seems something of a
misnomer to call it a "Party". I think most people would suppose the word
"Party" refers to a body which makes its own policies and puts up its own
candidates for public elections.
> Co-op shop movement is a co-operative; i.e. socialist.
The principle of running things in a cooperative manner has had more
support from the Liberal Party, going right back to the days of Lloyd
George, than it ever has from the Labour Party. "Socialism" for the
Labour Party meant state control, not co-operatives.
> I could ask the same question about LD and LD Focus Team.
That's Focus _Team_, not Focus _Party_.
> As usual, Labour is accused and found guilty when our record is
> exemplorary.
I'm not making an accusation nor finding Labour guilty. I just find the
maintenance of the Co-Operative Party as supposedly a separate party rather
an odd thing to understand, and was curious about it. I didn't suggest
anywhere it was wrong to stand "Labour and Co-Operative" candidates. I do,
however, wonder if the principle of co-operativism has been best served by
the Co-Operative movement being a Labour Party affiliate. Maybe it would have
been better advanced by a politically independent body.
Matthew Huntbach
Matthew M. Huntbach
> Article <7fk5tm$c8h$1...@beta.qmw.ac.uk>, m...@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew M. Huntbach) wrote:
> > Well, okay then, what is the point of the Co-Operative Party?
> Political wing of the co-operative movement, i.e., Labour.
> > At present it appears to mean nothing except that the occasional
> > Labour candidate is officially "Labour and Co-operative".
> Who is a supporter of the co-operative movement
But other Labour Party affiliated bodies don't put their name alongside
"The Labour Party" when they sponsor Labour Party candidates in public
elections. Why is the Co-Operative Party unique in this matter, indeed,
why is it the only Labour affiliate that calls itself by the rather
misleading name of "Party"?
> > I have never seen anything in practice which distinguishes candidates and
> > elected representatives with that label from Labour Party candidates
> > without it. It therefore appears to be completely meaningless.
> So how then should the co-operative movement represent itself, politically?
How do Friends of the Earth repreent themselves politically? Or Amnesty
International? Or the Automobile Association? Or hundreds of other bodies.
> What would he be saying if the move to affiliate Co-op Party to SDP
> worked?
I would not have supported it. My point is that the Co-operative movement
would have been better off as an independent body acting as a pressure
ghroup when it wanted to act politically, and that it has failed to do what
it could have achieved because it has been a party political affiliate.
> Does LD Fockus Team exist as an entity. Can I join LDFT without
> joinning LD and support its affiliation to Labour as Matthew can join
> Co-op Party and <g on> support its affiliation to LD? <g off>
I like the idea of co-operativism, so maybe I should join the
Co-Operative Party to promote it. But wouldn't it be silly for me as
an active LibDem to join something which is a Labour Party affiliate?
> Should Labour allow affiliates to have different policies and programmes?
> IIRC, the existance within Labour of Militant, a group with their
> own different policies and programme, was a primary excuse given
> by Matthew's "fellow Liberals" (scuse while I puke) for rejecting
> Labour in their favour.
I disliked Militant because I found them a pretty horrible bunch of
extremely authoritarian people.
> How does the Co-op manage in Downham, Matthew? They wouldn't have
> a popular supermarket there by any chance would they? Next time
> you're up for election, Matthew, will you be campaigning for
> Lewisham LBC to close Downham Co-op replacing it with M&S?
Sorry, where in anything I wrote have I expressed opposition to the
Co-Operative's stores?
> I sense sour grapes and Matthew's usual habit of protesting too much.
You may sense "sour grapes", "cheap opportunism" and the usual Labour crap.
I was just making an innocent enquiry.
> NNO subject
> I was going to say we can't havva a go at you for the Liberal/SDP
> alliance because, IIRC, you hated the SDP. Therefore, for the
> LD leadership you will support Charles Kennedy who came to LDs
> from, errr., ?
Usual press crap. Somehow the press have got this idea that Kennedy is the
"anti links with Labour" candidate for the leadership. That just indicates
how lacking in knowledge of the Liberal Democrats the press is. Rather than
report what is actually happening in the Liberal Democrats, the press make
up their own stories about what they would like to be happening in the
Liberal Democrats and try to fit the facts round the stories. I'd like a
press which wrote its stories around the facts.
Matthew Huntbach
Matthew M. Huntbach
> In article <7g1807$no5$1...@beta.qmw.ac.uk>,
> m...@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew M. Huntbach) wrote:
> > I disliked Militant because I found them a pretty horrible bunch of
> > extremely authoritarian people.
> Crikey. You must loathe New Labour then.
Yup.
Matthew Huntbach
David Stone
> Exactly. If there was any value to the Co-operative Party, it would have
> stopped backing Labour and started backing the Liberals years ago.
Why don't you join and propose that then?
Because you know the Co-op Party does the right thing
and you resent their support going where it should be?
--
Ian Ridley
Stone) wrote:
> I was going to say we can't havva a go at you for the Liberal/SDP
> alliance because, IIRC, you hated the SDP. Therefore, for the
> LD leadership you will support Charles Kennedy who came to LDs
> from, errr., ?
I don't know about Matthew but Charles Kennedy is a fair way down my
preferences. Depending on if they throw their hats into the ring,I would
go for:
1st Preference: Phil Willis (Harrogate and Knaresborough)
2nd Preference: Malcolm Bruce (Gordon)
3rd Preference: Jackie Ballard (Taunton)
4th Preference: Simon Hughes (Southwark North and Bermondsey)
The latter two are not certain - I need to talk to more people about
Jackie Ballard, but from what I've seen she deserves my third preference.
And yes, I know Phil Willis is from the '97 intake but I've met him and
seen him speak several times and he's a bloody good prospect IMHO. As for
notoriety, well Paddy was unknown when he got elected to the leadership in
1988.
Ian Ridley
Paul Leake
> 1st Preference: Phil Willis (Harrogate and Knaresborough)
> 2nd Preference: Malcolm Bruce (Gordon)
> 3rd Preference: Jackie Ballard (Taunton)
> 4th Preference: Simon Hughes (Southwark North and Bermondsey)
Apart from the fact that Phil definitely won't stand and Malcolm probably
won't stand.
My votes would probably go:
1. Ballard
2. Hughes
3. Rendel
4. Foster
Anyone but Kennedy and Harvey
Peace and Freedom,
Paul Leake
Matthew M. Huntbach
> Apart from the fact that Phil definitely won't stand and Malcolm probably
> won't stand.
> My votes would probably go:
> 1. Ballard
> 2. Hughes
> 3. Rendel
> 4. Foster
> Anyone but Kennedy and Harvey
Unless anything dramatic happens between now and the vote, I'll be the same.
Matthew Huntbach
David Stone
> David Stone (d...@spuddy.mew.co.uk) wrote:
>
> > As a Labour affiliate, Co-op Party cannot have its own policies etc
> > (ask millie tendy).
>
> Since the Co-operative Party cannot have its own policies and does not
> put up candidates independently for election, it seems something of a
> misnomer to call it a "Party".
Co-operative Party can have opposing policies and can put up candidates
independently for election. It cannot have opposing policies and/or
stand against Labour while a Labour affiliate.
> I think most people would suppose the word "Party" refers to a body which
> makes its own policies and puts up its own candidates for public elections.
As does the Co-op Party. But they may not contradict Labour's policies
while Co-op Party is a Labour affiliate.
> > Co-op shop movement is a co-operative; i.e. socialist.
>
> The principle of running things in a cooperative manner has had more
> support from the Liberal Party, going right back to the days of Lloyd
> George, than it ever has from the Labour Party. "Socialism" for the
> Labour Party meant state control, not co-operatives.
UCS. (Upper Clyde Shipbuilders). That is utter rubbish Matthew.
The reason for nationalisation was to give the people control
over those industries. It wasn't 100% success, but it gave the
people more control than private ownership. ISTR a young man
complaining he could no longer, after BT's privatisation, complain
to the minister about public telephone kiosks in Etrick, Tweedlale,
Lauderdale, Selkirk, Roxbough and Peebles not working. What was his
name? David Iron? Copper? Steel?
> > I could ask the same question about LD and LD Focus Team.
>
> That's Focus _Team_, not Focus _Party_.
Is it different to Liberal Democrat?
> > As usual, Labour is accused and found guilty
> > when our record is exemplorary.
>
> I'm not making an accusation nor finding Labour guilty. I just find the
> maintenance of the Co-Operative Party as supposedly a separate party rather
> an odd thing to understand, and was curious about it. I didn't suggest
> anywhere it was wrong to stand "Labour and Co-Operative" candidates. I do,
> however, wonder if the principle of co-operativism has been best served by
> the Co-Operative movement being a Labour Party affiliate. Maybe it would have
> been better advanced by a politically independent body.
As it is. Are you independent if me? Does that mean you supported
the Rt. hon poisonous bitch, the Blue Rinse from Hell (Finchley)?
You can join Co-op Party and suggest whatever you like. That's assuming
you can find the Co-op in Downham. If you can't, ask one of Downham's
councillors. Perhaps Councillor Huntbach?
--
David Stone
> David Stone (d...@spuddy.mew.co.uk) wrote:
> > Who is a supporter of the co-operative movement
>
> Why is the Co-Operative Party unique in this matter, indeed,
> why is it the only Labour affiliate that calls itself by the rather
> misleading name of "Party"?
I that's because it's a political party.
> > So how then should the co-operative movement represent
> > itself, politically?
>
> How do Friends of the Earth repreent themselves politically?
Ever heard of the Green Party?
> Or Amnesty International?
Non political by constitution.
> Or the Automobile Association? Or hundreds of other bodies.
Buy it from the Tories, esp BSM.
> > What would he be saying if the move to affiliate Co-op Party to SDP
> > worked?
>
> I would not have supported it. My point is that the Co-operative movement
> would have been better off as an independent body acting as a pressure
> ghroup when it wanted to act politically, and that it has failed to do what
> it could have achieved because it has been a party political affiliate.
Not that "Labour & Co-op" is a misleading term?
Dear Matthew,
Thankyou for your advice on running a pluralistic political movement.
Don't call us!
> I like the idea of co-operativism, so maybe I should join the
> Co-Operative Party to promote it.
Maybe you should join Labour. ISTM you have far more in common
with us than LDs.
OTOH, if you like the idea of co-operativism, maybe you should
join the Co-Operative Party to promote it.
> But wouldn't it be silly for me as an active LibDem
> to join something which is a Labour Party affiliate?
Like a Trade Union? No LDs in TUs?
> I disliked Militant because I found them a pretty horrible bunch of
> extremely authoritarian people.
Yep. I couldn't have put it better myself, so I'll put it again.
Maybe you should join Labour. ISTM you have far more in common
with us than LDs. OTOH, if you like the idea of co-operativism,
maybe you should join the Co-Operative Party to promote it.
> > How does the Co-op manage in Downham, Matthew? They wouldn't have
> > a popular supermarket there by any chance would they? Next time
> > you're up for election, Matthew, will you be campaigning for
> > Lewisham LBC to close Downham Co-op replacing it with M&S?
>
> Sorry, where in anything I wrote have I expressed
> opposition to the Co-Operative's stores?
Let me get this straight: you dislike the Co-op Party but
adore its only substantial operation?
> > I was going to say we can't havva a go at you for the Liberal/SDP
> > alliance because, IIRC, you hated the SDP. Therefore, for the
> > LD leadership you will support Charles Kennedy who came to LDs
> > from, errr., ?
>
> Usual press crap. Somehow the press have got this idea that Kennedy is the
> "anti links with Labour" candidate for the leadership. That just indicates
> how lacking in knowledge of the Liberal Democrats the press is. Rather than
> report what is actually happening in the Liberal Democrats, the press make
> up their own stories about what they would like to be happening in the
> Liberal Democrats and try to fit the facts round the stories. I'd like a
> press which wrote its stories around the facts.
Who do you support for LD leader, Matthew? Kennedy is an intelligent
and inivative MP who commands respect from all worthwhile politicians.
Next time you respond, see if you can let some answers to my questions
get in the way of cheap mis-fired opportunism.
--
Matthew M. Huntbach
> In Article <7g175t$nj1$1...@beta.qmw.ac.uk>, m...@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew M. Huntbach) wrote:
> > David Stone (d...@spuddy.mew.co.uk) wrote:
> > > (ask millie tendy).
> > Since the Co-operative Party cannot have its own policies and does not
> > put up candidates independently for election, it seems something of a
> > misnomer to call it a "Party".
> Co-operative Party can have opposing policies and can put up candidates
> independently for election. It cannot have opposing policies and/or
> stand against Labour while a Labour affiliate.
Ah-hah, now you are clarifying things for me. That's all I wanted - a bit
of factual information. So, tell me if I am wrong, the Co-Operative Party
is in theory a separate political party which just chooses to affiliate
to the Labour Party, and could if it voted to do so abandon that affiliation?
> You can join Co-op Party and suggest whatever you like. That's assuming
> you can find the Co-op in Downham. If you can't, ask one of Downham's
> councillors. Perhaps Councillor Huntbach?
As the Co-Operative Party is a private organisation and not a branch of
the council, why should one ask a councillor for information about it?
Are you one of those who confuses "councillor" with "counsellor"?
Matthew Huntbach
Matthew M. Huntbach
> > I like the idea of co-operativism, so maybe I should join the
> > Co-Operative Party to promote it.
> Maybe you should join Labour. ISTM you have far more in common
> with us than LDs.
If you think that, it just indicates you do not know very much about the
Liberal Democrats. I find the Labour Party more unattractive than ever now
it has become "New Labour". It seems to contain all the old things I found
unattractive in Labour years ago, plus it has added quite a few new things
that Labour didn't used to have but I found them unattractive when they
were features of the Conservatives or the SDP.
> > But wouldn't it be silly for me as an active LibDem
> > to join something which is a Labour Party affiliate?
> Like a Trade Union? No LDs in TUs?
I am very pleased my trade union isn't affiliated to the Labour Party.
I find the idea of a trade union affiliating to a political party very
odd - offensive indeed to those in the relevant trade ho happen not to
be supporters of that party - and if I were in a trade with such a union
its Labour affiliation would cause me difficulties in getting involved with it.
> > > How does the Co-op manage in Downham, Matthew? They wouldn't have
> > > a popular supermarket there by any chance would they? Next time
> > > you're up for election, Matthew, will you be campaigning for
> > > Lewisham LBC to close Downham Co-op replacing it with M&S?
> > Sorry, where in anything I wrote have I expressed
> > opposition to the Co-Operative's stores?
> Let me get this straight: you dislike the Co-op Party but
> adore its only substantial operation?
I never said I disliked the Co-Op Party. I know nothing about the Co-Op
Party because it seems to do nothing. How can I dislike something I know
nothing about? I never said I adored the Co-Op stores either. I like the
idea of co-operativism as a principle however. I would like to see an
independent movement promoting it. I think more people would get interested
in it if there were such a movement.
> Who do you support for LD leader, Matthew? Kennedy is an intelligent
> and inivative MP who commands respect from all worthwhile politicians.
Sorry, but I've heard nothing from Kennedy which particularly impresses me
throughout the years he's been an MP. I wonder can anyone recall anything
particularly memorable or innovative that Kennedy has said? It's always
surprised me that this man, pleasant and a good constituency MP sure, but
rather a non-entity politically, has always been put forward in the press
as "the next LibDem leader". I can only suppose it's a remnant of the old
"SDP good, Liberal bad" thinking that was dominant in the press throughout
the Liberal/SDP alliance and early years of the Liberal Democrats.
Matthew Huntbach
Thom Baguley
> Sorry, but I've heard nothing from Kennedy which particularly impresses me
> throughout the years he's been an MP. I wonder can anyone recall anything
> particularly memorable or innovative that Kennedy has said? It's always
> surprised me that this man, pleasant and a good constituency MP sure, but
> rather a non-entity politically, has always been put forward in the press
> as "the next LibDem leader". I can only suppose it's a remnant of the old
> "SDP good, Liberal bad" thinking that was dominant in the press throughout
> the Liberal/SDP alliance and early years of the Liberal Democrats.
I think it is merely his high media profile. He is obviously relatively
popular with the media and has a good working relationship with them. It is
natural that they see him as a front runner (just as Blair, Heseltine, Clarke
etc. were always tipped as future leaders of their parties ... showing that
journalists aren't necessarily that good at predicting leadership contests).
Thom
Matthew M. Huntbach
> Matthew M. Huntbach wrote:
> > Sorry, but I've heard nothing from Kennedy which particularly impresses me
> > throughout the years he's been an MP. I wonder can anyone recall anything
> > particularly memorable or innovative that Kennedy has said? It's always
> > surprised me that this man, pleasant and a good constituency MP sure, but
> > rather a non-entity politically, has always been put forward in the press
> > as "the next LibDem leader". I can only suppose it's a remnant of the old
> > "SDP good, Liberal bad" thinking that was dominant in the press throughout
> > the Liberal/SDP alliance and early years of the Liberal Democrats.
> I think it is merely his high media profile. He is obviously relatively
> popular with the media and has a good working relationship with them.
Chicken-and-egg. Why is he popular with the media?
Matthew Huntbach
Jim Riley
wrote:
> Article <374e4493....@news.pipeline.com>, jim...@pipeline.com (Jim Riley) wrote:
>
> > Are the following candidates designated as such on the ballot?
>
> > DYFED, LLANELLI
> > L. Ann Garrard Lab/Co-op
> >
> > GWENT, BLAENAU GWENT
> > Peter J. Law Lab/Co-op
>
>Yes.
> > If they are elected, are they counted as Labour electees for
> > purposes of allocating the regional seats?
>
>Yes.
> > And if they are counted as Labour, but on the ballot as Labour/Co-op,
> > won't this confuse or deceive voters, especially those who might
> > otherwise split their two votes?
>
>As a Labour affiliate, Co-op Party cannot have its own policies etc
>(ask millie tendy). Co-op shop movement is a co-operative; i.e.
>socialist. Co-op shops were closed shops when that was lawful.
>(Yes that's right Ian, they never opened. Well done).
>
>Since Co-op Party supports Labour always, splitting one's vote
>is difficult to fathom.
Then the ballot is deceptive. Voters are not compelled to comply
with the dictates of any party, and are free to cast their
constituency vote for the candidate of one party, and cast
their regional vote for the slate of another party, no matter
how difficult that is for you to fathom.
> Margaret Hodge was a Co-op councillor
>when she led Islington Council. Co-op Party does exist as a
>separate entity but the practical differences for the elector
>are next to nil.
In this case, the practical difference for the elector is that
two different party designations will appear on the ballot paper
used in an electoral system where there is interaction between
the two votes.
This is unlike elections for Parliament, where candidates run
as individuals, and they are totally free to espouse whatever
policies they wish once elected.
>I could ask the same question about LD and LD Focus Team.
Are there any candidates running for the Welsh Assembly
running on the LD Focus Team slate? If not, then your question
would be meaningless.
>There is a difference between Labour and Labour & Co-op.
Then Labour has violated their pledge not to run as two
separate parties to take advantage of AMS.
>What about Conservative and Conservative & Unionist?
Aren't they registered as The Conservative and Unionist Party?
Are there constituency candidates in Wales running as C&U while
there is a list for the region labelled U?
>Do the latter take the UUP whip as well?
A decision to take the whip of any party is done irrespective
of the party label that one is elected under. Mr.Law, if elected,
would be quite free to take the UUP whip in the Welsh Assembly.
Thom Baguley
Youngest MP when elected? I think the reasons you put forward play a part in
his media profile, but the simplest explanation is that most journalists put
forward the name of the bloke the read most often (after all actually
researching it would require unnecessary work).
Thom
Paul Leake
> Dear Matthew,
>
> Thankyou for your advice on running a pluralistic political movement.
> Don't call us!
>
> > Co-Operative Party to promote it.
>
> Maybe you should join Labour. ISTM you have far more in common
> with us than LDs.
>
Or even join the LibDems! Liberal Democrats like co-operatives, and I'm
sure co-op members would have far more luck in the LibDems than as some
sort of 'ginger group' for the NuTories.
Paul Leake