Vegetarianism and B12 deficiency (was Re: Organic GE)
Rev. Timothy N Nurse
<rvi...@blakcat.nospam.co.uk> wrote:
| In article <The_Minister-ya0235...@bourbon.propertymall
| .com>, Rev. Timothy N Nurse <The_Minister@no_junk.xoommail.com> writes
|
| >| The difference is that the vast majority of veggies condemn the violent
| >| ones. The same, I suspect, can't be said of the BNP.
| >
| >Oh I'm sure they too pay lip-service to the public by condemning the
activities
| >of Combat-14, whilst adding qualifiers to their statements that they
| >'understand' why they carry out these acts and similar disingenuous
waffle. Not
| >really much different from the ALF acting as an apologist mouth-piece for
| >the latest attack on Muslim culture whilst stating that they 'understand'
| >why these attacks have been carried out.
| >
| > BNP -> ALF
|
| To an extent, I'd agree with you that the BNP and ALF are pretty much
| equal - although I find the ALF perhaps marginally less distasteful.
| However, you're comments above imply that you think veggies = ALF - this
| is patently not the case.
I would suggest that the vast majority, if not all, the members of the ALF
are veggies.
achildofmuvernature
>--
> CamARAB
> http://members.xoom.com/The_Minister/index.htm
the alf doesn't actually exist it means animal liberation frontline.
it is an adjective.
those who take direct action. it is not a club or political party.
the bnp are rascists who believe that the community would benefit from
pograms.
they are backed by the likes of the daily telegraph, right wing tory
idiots etc, divide and rule remember!
those freeing animals from torture really do not deserve to be
catogerised as rascists, or governemnt collaberators, unlike the bnp.
the bnp have to realise that playing the war games of the mainstream
system benefits no-one eccept the elite.
i'm trying to elucidate here, its not a game or sport, the bnp really
frighten people. they try and vampire people's energy.
the alf free sentient beings from extreme fear and torture.
they are the opposite basically!
i'm not interested in accusations of insanity saying all this, i'm
just breaking through the 'game' to reveal the reality. i know what
its like on the street, i know what its like to be vampired. i now
have a web connection and can fight back right into your comfortable
homes tory twats.
take it easy
jim
mike
.com>, Rev. Timothy N Nurse <The_Minister@no_junk.xoommail.com> writes
>
>are veggies.
>
Statistically, most child molesters and murderers are quite probably
meat eaters.
And your point is...?
Mike
--
http://www.urban75.com/ UK e-zine - over 3 million hits!
"the finest & best designed independent site in Britain" Dly Telegraph
"the most relevant, innovative site of the nineties" Internet Magazine
to e-mail me, it's : m i k e (*at*) u r b a n 7 5 (*dot*) c o m
Richard Vialls
.com>, Rev. Timothy N Nurse <The_Minister@no_junk.xoommail.com> writes
>| > BNP -> ALF
>|
>| To an extent, I'd agree with you that the BNP and ALF are pretty much
>| equal - although I find the ALF perhaps marginally less distasteful.
>| However, you're comments above imply that you think veggies = ALF - this
>| is patently not the case.
>
>I would suggest that the vast majority, if not all, the members of the ALF
>are veggies.
Maybe, but that doesn't mean that the vast majority of veggies are
members of the ALF, as you were implying.
Richard Vialls (please replace nospam with demon for email & WWW)
Black Cat Electronics - contract electronics design
Bodrwyn, Cerrigceinwen, Bodorgan, Phone: +44(0)1407 720717
Anglesey, LL62 5EF, UK. Email: rvi...@blakcat.nospam.co.uk
Web: http://www.blakcat.nospam.co.uk
Rev. Timothy N Nurse
<mike@urb-nospam-an75-nein!.demon.co.uk> wrote:
| In article <The_Minister-ya0235...@bourbon.propertymall
| .com>, Rev. Timothy N Nurse <The_Minister@no_junk.xoommail.com> writes
| >
| >I would suggest that the vast majority, if not all, the members of the ALF
| >are veggies.
| >
| Many of whom are vegans. So what?
|
| Statistically, most child molesters and murderers are quite probably
| meat eaters.
However, eating meat is not a key credential to child molesting, being a
veggie IS a key credential to being in ALF.
|
| And your point is...?
I'd have thought it obvious. One is a key credential, the other is a statistical
co-incidence.
Rev. Timothy N Nurse
|
| the alf doesn't actually exist it means animal liberation frontline.
| it is an adjective.
| those who take direct action. it is not a club or political party.
Oh really? So who was it who released all those mink, boasted of having
firebombed halal butchers in their publications? The Animal Liberation
Front are very real and their Scottish branch even have a web site.
|
| the bnp are rascists who believe that the community would benefit from
| pograms.
Nope ..that's 'benefit from having neigbour choice forced on them through
violent means'
..and they ALF are fascist who believe the community would benefit from
having lifestyle choices forced on them through violence.
Not much different, really..
| those freeing animals from torture really do not deserve to be
| catogerised as rascists, or governemnt collaberators, unlike the bnp.
They are fascists. They attack ethnic minorities because they don't like
their cultural practises.
Rev. Timothy N Nurse
<rvi...@blakcat.nospam.co.uk> wrote:
| In article <The_Minister-ya0235...@bourbon.propertymall
| .com>, Rev. Timothy N Nurse <The_Minister@no_junk.xoommail.com> writes
|
| >| > BNP -> ALF
| >|
| >| To an extent, I'd agree with you that the BNP and ALF are pretty much
| >| equal - although I find the ALF perhaps marginally less distasteful.
| >| However, you're comments above imply that you think veggies = ALF - this
| >| is patently not the case.
| >
| >I would suggest that the vast majority, if not all, the members of the ALF
| >are veggies.
|
| Maybe, but that doesn't mean that the vast majority of veggies are
| members of the ALF, as you were implying.
The suggestion being made is that vegetarianism leads towards violence.
What proportion of the meat eating UK is involved with the BNP? What
proprtion of the veggie UK is involved with the ALF?
I'd suggest that the latter proportion is the larger.
achildofmuvernature
>achildofmuvernature <mong...@gn.apc.org> wrote:
>> the alf doesn't actually exist it means animal liberation frontline.
>> it is an adjective.
>Horseshit. The ALF (Animal Liberation Front) is an active organisation
>in the UK. In recent years members have firebombed stores, beaten up
>scientists, attached bombs to vehicles and released mink into the
>environment. And this is a small sample of the stupidity that they
>represent.
In the name of clarity...
you ain't read wot i wrote geezaz.
it is autonomus individuals who take direct action to relieve animal
suffering. ie they are the 'frontline' of direct action. obviously i'm
not saying that such actions don't exist. what i am saying is that it
is not a linked organisation with heirarchies etc. unlike the BNP.
Actions are listed on the ALF website yes, but the alf website does
not 'control' actions.
i saw a picture of two people holding releasesd chickens on the animal
rights resourses website. the compassion in their eyes is so deep.
or do we believe the reverends and colonals spouting mainstream
nonsense?
jim
>--
Dead Mangled Pigeon
achildofmuvernature wrote in message <6vctqg$2vn$1...@news.gn.apc.org>...
[crunch]
>i saw a picture of two people holding releasesd chickens on the animal
>rights resourses website. the compassion in their eyes is so deep.
>
Pass the sick-bag, Alice.
JPC
The_Minister@no_junk.xoommail.com says...
>What proportion of the meat eating UK is involved with the BNP? What
>proprtion of the veggie UK is involved with the ALF?
>
>I'd suggest that the latter proportion is the larger.
What about the snails eating?
Rev. Timothy N Nurse
| fil...@firthcom.demon.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
|
| >achildofmuvernature <mong...@gn.apc.org> wrote:
|
| >> the alf doesn't actually exist it means animal liberation frontline.
| >> it is an adjective.
|
| >Horseshit. The ALF (Animal Liberation Front) is an active organisation
| >in the UK. In recent years members have firebombed stores, beaten up
| >scientists, attached bombs to vehicles and released mink into the
| >environment. And this is a small sample of the stupidity that they
| >represent.
|
| In the name of clarity...
| you ain't read wot i wrote geezaz.
Oh but he did, as did I.
| it is autonomus individuals who take direct action to relieve animal
| suffering. ie they are the 'frontline' of direct action.
Just like Combat18.
| obviously i'm
| not saying that such actions don't exist. what i am saying is that it
| is not a linked organisation with heirarchies etc. unlike the BNP.
Of course it is...unless your denying there's a link between the BNP and
its 'frontline' - as you put it - Combat18?
| Actions are listed on the ALF website yes, but the alf website does
| not 'control' actions.
So? It's no different from BNP/Combat 18 - its just a 'front' for its
members but tries to pretend it has no connection.
Rev. Timothy N Nurse
(JPC) wrote:
Meat-eating. Frogs legs too. And foie gras.
Or are you asking how many snails - veggies- are members of ALF?
Richard Vialls
.com>, Rev. Timothy N Nurse <The_Minister@no_junk.xoommail.com> writes
>| >I would suggest that the vast majority, if not all, the members of the ALF
>| >are veggies.
>|
>| Maybe, but that doesn't mean that the vast majority of veggies are
>| members of the ALF, as you were implying.
>
>The suggestion being made is that vegetarianism leads towards violence.
>What proportion of the meat eating UK is involved with the BNP? What
>proprtion of the veggie UK is involved with the ALF?
>
>I'd suggest that the latter proportion is the larger.
Whether this is the case or not, it goes precisely zilch towards proving
that a vegetarian diet leads to more violence than an ominvorous one.
If you want to make the case, you need to try looking at the percentage
of vegetarians involved in violent acts of one sort or another and
comparing that with the proportion of omnivores involved in violent acts
of one sort or another. I'd suggest that the latter proportion is
unlikely to be any smaller (and I'd predict probably larger).
achildofmuvernature
>[crunch]
>Pass the sick-bag, Alice.
really, ver very cool eyess. compassion is an amazing thing.
achildofmuvernature
well all i know is that from my personal experience,
being tortured is no fun for me at all, whether or not some mad
scientist thinks it beneficial.
i have felt extreme anger, not surprisingly towards these doctors and
scientists that proclaim some truth or other.
i channel that anger, say here and now, into trying to break through
to those who's life experiences give then no personnel experience of
torture, rascism, alienation etc etc.
again the reality is that people relieving animal suffering (done by
those who want to make money) on the frontline are probably doing
'gods work', accumulationg good karma, wheras, the bnp, combat 18 or
whatever are rascist drongos.
sorry if this isn't quite what you read in the mail, but then its good
sometimes to turn all your perceptions on their heads.
again read the bible reverend. upturn those tables in the temple!
jim
Rev. Timothy N Nurse
<rvi...@blakcat.nospam.co.uk> wrote:
| In article <The_Minister-ya0235...@bourbon.propertymall
| .com>, Rev. Timothy N Nurse <The_Minister@no_junk.xoommail.com> writes
|
| >| >I would suggest that the vast majority, if not all, the members of the ALF
| >| >are veggies.
| >|
| >| Maybe, but that doesn't mean that the vast majority of veggies are
| >| members of the ALF, as you were implying.
| >
| >The suggestion being made is that vegetarianism leads towards violence.
| >What proportion of the meat eating UK is involved with the BNP? What
| >proprtion of the veggie UK is involved with the ALF?
| >
| >I'd suggest that the latter proportion is the larger.
|
| Whether this is the case or not, it goes precisely zilch towards proving
| that a vegetarian diet leads to more violence than an ominvorous one.
It is certainly an indicator of who is more prepared to rally to a violent
and extremist cause, be it Combat 18 or ALF. COuld the diet have something
to do with those flocking to ALF? Does the diet have anything to do with
the few who align themselves with Combat 18?
|
| If you want to make the case, you need to try looking at the percentage
| of vegetarians involved in violent acts of one sort or another and
| comparing that with the proportion of omnivores involved in violent acts
| of one sort or another.
Far too complicated and vague in its definitions. You've already conceded
that Combat18 and ALF are similar so, there is already a commonality
which makes it simpler to compare organised violence between the two groups.
It would appear that vegetarians are more prepared to resort to terrorism
and mob violence than meat eaters. Now all we need to know is why.
Richard Vialls
.com>, Rev. Timothy N Nurse <The_Minister@no_junk.xoommail.com> writes
>| >| >I would suggest that the vast majority, if not all, the members of the ALF
>| >| >are veggies.
>| >|
>| >| Maybe, but that doesn't mean that the vast majority of veggies are
>| >| members of the ALF, as you were implying.
>| >
>| >The suggestion being made is that vegetarianism leads towards violence.
>| >What proportion of the meat eating UK is involved with the BNP? What
>| >proprtion of the veggie UK is involved with the ALF?
>| >
>| >I'd suggest that the latter proportion is the larger.
>|
>| Whether this is the case or not, it goes precisely zilch towards proving
>| that a vegetarian diet leads to more violence than an ominvorous one.
>
>It is certainly an indicator of who is more prepared to rally to a violent
>and extremist cause, be it Combat 18 or ALF. COuld the diet have something
>to do with those flocking to ALF? Does the diet have anything to do with
>the few who align themselves with Combat 18?
I suspect that you, like me, have absolutely no idea how many
vegetarians and omnivores support the ALF and BNP. As such, you are just
suggesting what you want to believe and expecting me to argue against
it. You have absolutely no case that vegetarians are more likely to be
supporters of the ALF than omnivores are to be supporters of the BNP.
Even if you did have such evidence, this would not be admissable as
evidence that vegetarians are more violent than omnivores. To support a
violent act because you believe it will make the world a better place is
entirely different from actually perpetrating that act. Or would you
class everyone who supports military action in places like Kosovo as
violent?
>| If you want to make the case, you need to try looking at the percentage
>| of vegetarians involved in violent acts of one sort or another and
>| comparing that with the proportion of omnivores involved in violent acts
>| of one sort or another.
>
>Far too complicated and vague in its definitions. You've already conceded
>that Combat18 and ALF are similar so, there is already a commonality
>which makes it simpler to compare organised violence between the two groups.
>It would appear that vegetarians are more prepared to resort to terrorism
>and mob violence than meat eaters.
You haven't provided a shred of evidence for this assertion yet.
> Now all we need to know is why.
What I want to know is why you are so keen to paint vegetarians (who
are, in my experience, more likely to be pacifists than omnivores) as
violent extremists. What is your motive for this? What have you really
got against vegetarians - or are you just deliberately trolling?
Rev. Timothy N Nurse
<rvi...@blakcat.nospam.co.uk> wrote:
| In article <The_Minister-ya0235...@bourbon.propertymall
| .com>, Rev. Timothy N Nurse <The_Minister@no_junk.xoommail.com> writes
|
| >| >| >I would suggest that the vast majority, if not all, the members of
the ALF
| >| >| >are veggies.
| >| >|
| >| >| Maybe, but that doesn't mean that the vast majority of veggies are
| >| >| members of the ALF, as you were implying.
| >| >
| >| >The suggestion being made is that vegetarianism leads towards violence.
| >| >What proportion of the meat eating UK is involved with the BNP? What
| >| >proprtion of the veggie UK is involved with the ALF?
| >| >
| >| >I'd suggest that the latter proportion is the larger.
| >|
| >| Whether this is the case or not, it goes precisely zilch towards proving
| >| that a vegetarian diet leads to more violence than an ominvorous one.
| >
| >It is certainly an indicator of who is more prepared to rally to a violent
| >and extremist cause, be it Combat 18 or ALF. COuld the diet have something
| >to do with those flocking to ALF? Does the diet have anything to do with
| >the few who align themselves with Combat 18?
|
| I suspect that you, like me, have absolutely no idea how many
| vegetarians and omnivores support the ALF and BNP.
Well, lets take an educated guess, shall we? Hardcore membership of Combat 18
is estimated at around the 100 mark. Membership of the ALF is around the 250
mark but the hardcore element is probably half that - lets be generous and
say 100. The number of vegetarians in the UK is widely disputed with claims
of between 4 to 10% of the population made. Let's be generous again and
say 10%. So, from 6 million veggies, we get 100 hardcore activists, whilst
from 56 million omnis, we also get 100 hardcore activists which means, in
effect, a veggie is 9 times more likely to be involved mob violence and
terrorism than an omni. There, that wasn't hard.
But, of course, there is one key difference between the two, diet has nothing
to do with those joining Combat 18.
| Even if you did have such evidence, this would not be admissable as
| evidence that vegetarians are more violent than omnivores.
Why not? Condoning and supporting those who do perpetrate the violence is just
as bad as carrying out the acts themselves. You appear to be arguing that
Hitler wasn't a monster because he got other people to do the killing for him,
thus was less culpable. Clearly this is false.
| >
| >Far too complicated and vague in its definitions. You've already conceded
| >that Combat18 and ALF are similar so, there is already a commonality
| >which makes it simpler to compare organised violence between the two groups.
| >It would appear that vegetarians are more prepared to resort to terrorism
| >and mob violence than meat eaters.
|
| You haven't provided a shred of evidence for this assertion yet.
I have indeed! You don't like it, but that is your problem, not mine.
achildofmuvernature
hypothetical nonsense
>But, of course, there is one key difference between the two, diet has nothing
>to do with those joining Combat 18.
>| Even if you did have such evidence, this would not be admissable as
>| evidence that vegetarians are more violent than omnivores.
>Why not? Condoning and supporting those who do perpetrate the violence is just
>as bad as carrying out the acts themselves.
yes yes bbc news, blar blar blar...what about what the government gets
up to? what about east timor, millions of dead people, just so babylon
can make money. condemm this please reverend.
You appear to be arguing that
>Hitler wasn't a monster because he got other people to do the killing for him,
>thus was less culpable. Clearly this is false.
quite 'reverend'. shall we start a debate about government sponsered
violence?
people who are into relieving the pain of sentient beings are hardly
going tobe into injuring/killing people, even if they are causing
extreme pain and suffering to thousands of animals. thats what
vivisectors do.
you get the occasional nutter, and police stitch up, and deluded
reverend for that matter. hello are you in there reverend nurse?
>| >
>| >Far too complicated and vague in its definitions. You've already conceded
>| >that Combat18 and ALF are similar so, there is already a commonality
>| >which makes it simpler to compare organised violence between the two groups.
>| >It would appear that vegetarians are more prepared to resort to terrorism
>| >and mob violence than meat eaters.
>|
>| You haven't provided a shred of evidence for this assertion yet.
>I have indeed! You don't like it, but that is your pr
babylon is falling
jim.
mike
.com>, Rev. Timothy N Nurse <The_Minister@no_junk.xoommail.com> writes
>
Fascinating stuff. So the tiny, *tiny* amount of fanatics who make up
the fringe direct action group that calls itself the ALF are probably
veggie. And you think that using this microscopic sample group you can
draw conclusions as to the leanings of all veggies - even those who
choose their diet for health reasons?
Very scientific.
But if you wish to pursue this dubious theme, perhaps you might like to
consider the number of meat eating racists and football hooligans?
I bet you wouldn't find many vegans or veggies amongst their ranks, so
that leaves your argument... where exactly?
mike
.com>, Rev. Timothy N Nurse <The_Minister@no_junk.xoommail.com> writes
>It is certainly an indicator of who is more prepared to rally to a violent
>and extremist cause, be it Combat 18 or ALF. COuld the diet have something
>to do with those flocking to ALF? Does the diet have anything to do with
>the few who align themselves with Combat 18?
You tell me. But as it's almost certain that more violent acts/murders
are committed by meat-eaters than vegetarians, your 'argument' is
woefully lacking.
>It would appear that vegetarians are more prepared to resort to terrorism
>and mob violence than meat eaters. Now all we need to know is why.
You really believe this?! Based on what data? How many murders have been
committed by vegetarians in the UK recently? How many Saturday night
punch ups involve veggies? Are the football hooligan 'firms' exclusive
staffed by Linda McCartney-munchin' veggies too? (Strange then that
veggie food is almost non-existent on the terraces - do they bring their
own veggie sarnies to the matches then?)
Strange how not so long ago, veggies were being portrayed as weedy and
anaemic, and now suddenly they're all wild hoodlums....
Do I detect the airing of tedious personal prejudices here?
mike
.com>, Rev. Timothy N Nurse <The_Minister@no_junk.xoommail.com> writes
>Well, lets take an educated guess, shall we? Hardcore membership of Combat 18
>is estimated at around the 100 mark.
Eh? What exactly are you basing your 'educated guesses' on? Last I
heard, there was supposed to 'hundreds' of Combat 18 members amongst the
Chelsea home crowd alone.
And do you *really* think that your average neo-Nazi racist is less
violent and less likely yo get involved in a punch up that an ALF
member?
Remarkable.
andy t
mong...@gn.apc.org (achildofmuvernature) wrote:
>the alf doesn't actually exist
bollocks.
it means animal liberation frontline.
>it is an adjective.
Go learn your grammar. it is certainly NOT an adjective. (It also means
Animla Liberation Front.
>those who take direct action. it is not a club or political party.
It is an organisation, with spokespersons etc.
>
>the bnp are rascists who believe that the community would benefit from
>pograms.
>
>they are backed by the likes of the daily telegraph, right wing tory
>idiots etc, divide and rule remember!
>
>those freeing animals from torture really do not deserve to be
>catogerised as rascists, or governemnt collaberators, unlike the bnp.
>the bnp have to realise that playing the war games of the mainstream
>system benefits no-one eccept the elite.
The ALF have to realise that bombings, beatings and terror tactics will
earn them the respect they deserve. none.
The thuggery displayed by the ALF is most certainly akin to that displayed
by the BNP. Brutish physical vilence against people (and their property)
with whom they disagree .
>
>i'm trying to elucidate here,
Halucinate, more likely...with some success to.
its not a game or sport, the bnp really
>frighten people.
So do the ALF with their balaclavas and terror tactics.
they try and vampire people's energy.
>the alf free sentient beings from extreme fear and torture.
and beat up scientists, vandalise property and commit criminal acts.
>
>they are the opposite basically!
Bollox. they are very similar in mindless, intolerance and attitude, not to
mention lack of realistic argument
>
>i'm not interested in accusations of insanity saying all this, i'm
>just breaking through the 'game' to reveal the reality. i know what
>its like on the street, i know what its like to be vampired. i now
>have a web connection and can fight back right into your comfortable
>homes tory twats.
Could this be a class thing?
Theo the dyslexic gnome
nospam-an75-nein!.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <The_Minister-ya0235...@bourbon.propertymall
>.com>, Rev. Timothy N Nurse <The_Minister@no_junk.xoommail.com> writes
>
>>and extremist cause, be it Combat 18 or ALF. COuld the diet have something
>>to do with those flocking to ALF? Does the diet have anything to do with
>>the few who align themselves with Combat 18?
Talking of Combat 18, wasn't Hitler a vegitarian?
--
Dyslexic gnome
Rev. Timothy N Nurse
| The_Minister@no_junk.xoommail.com (Rev. Timothy N Nurse) wrote:
|
| >| I suspect that you, like me, have absolutely no idea how many
| >| vegetarians and omnivores support the ALF and BNP.
|
| >Well, lets take an educated guess, shall we? Hardcore membership of Combat 18
| >is estimated at around the 100 mark. Membership of the ALF is around the 250
| >mark but the hardcore element is probably half that - lets be generous and
| >say 100. The number of vegetarians in the UK is widely disputed with claims
| >of between 4 to 10% of the population made. Let's be generous again and
| >say 10%. So, from 6 million veggies, we get 100 hardcore activists, whilst
| >from 56 million omnis, we also get 100 hardcore activists which means, in
| >effect, a veggie is 9 times more likely to be involved mob violence and
| >terrorism than an omni. There, that wasn't hard.
|
| hypothetical nonsense
Nope. Statistically accurate.
| >Why not? Condoning and supporting those who do perpetrate the violence
is just
| >as bad as carrying out the acts themselves.
|
| yes yes bbc news, blar blar blar..
What has the BBC news got to do with anything under discussion??
| up to? what about east timor, millions of dead people, just so babylon
| can make money. condemm this please reverend.
OK. I condemn the Indonesian leadership's condoning and supporting the action
of its troops in East Timor...not much different from ALF there
...and it's tens of thousands, not 'millions'.
|
| You appear to be arguing that
| >Hitler wasn't a monster because he got other people to do the killing
for him,
| >thus was less culpable. Clearly this is false.
|
|
| quite 'reverend'.
So you agree that Hitler was equally culpable, ergo ALF is equally culpable
for the attacks of Muslims and firebombings. Thank you, that was my point.
| shall we start a debate about government sponsered
| violence?
Is the government vegetarian? No? Oh well, no need then as it is
irrelevant to the matter in hand, although as a passing thought, one of the
most prominent vegetarian in the last government was Alan Clark. He too,
supported 'animal rights'. Alan Clark was also the man responsible for selling
Hawk fighters to the Indonesians - the same Hawk fighters which were used on
the East Timorese. Clark's response was that, if they weren't British subjects
he wasn't interested and would continues to sell Indonesia weapons. He was
also responsible for selling war materials to Saddam Hussein. ALan Clark is
a real compassionate man, he cares more for his dogs than foreigners.
| people who are into relieving the pain of sentient beings are hardly
| going tobe into injuring/killing people, even if they are causing
| extreme pain and suffering to thousands of animals. thats what
| vivisectors do.
This, of course, is exaggerated lies, popular amongst the lunatic element
of ALF and animal rights. Animal experiments has brought untold benifits
to not only humans, but also other animals for the treatment of a huge
number of life threatening diseases. ALF would deny children the
right to medical treatment derived from animal experiments. But then,
ALF don't care about children, their only interest is in self-promotion.
They'd rather see a child die that a lab rat endure an injection, to them
the mere lab rat is worth more than a childs life.
[Incoherent rambling deleted]
Rev. Timothy N Nurse
<mike@urb-nospam-an75-nein!.demon.co.uk> wrote:
| In article <The_Minister-ya0235...@bourbon.propertymall
| .com>, Rev. Timothy N Nurse <The_Minister@no_junk.xoommail.com> writes
|
| >Well, lets take an educated guess, shall we? Hardcore membership of Combat 18
| >is estimated at around the 100 mark.
|
| Eh? What exactly are you basing your 'educated guesses' on? Last I
| heard, there was supposed to 'hundreds' of Combat 18 members amongst the
| Chelsea home crowd alone.
Nah. I'm talking about the hardcore, not the hangers-on who like to bask
in reflected glory. Soccer fans are not in the same league as those who
have regular chats with the likes of the UVF.
Rev. Timothy N Nurse
<mike@urb-nospam-an75-nein!.demon.co.uk> wrote:
| But if you wish to pursue this dubious theme, perhaps you might like to
| consider the number of meat eating racists and football hooligans?
Yes, but there's no direct link between diet and racism, whereas diet will
play a big part in the decision to join the ALF.
| I bet you wouldn't find many vegans or veggies amongst their ranks, so
| that leaves your argument... where exactly?
Still intact.
Richard Vialls
.com>, Rev. Timothy N Nurse <The_Minister@no_junk.xoommail.com> writes
>| I suspect that you, like me, have absolutely no idea how many
>| vegetarians and omnivores support the ALF and BNP.
>
>Well, lets take an educated guess, shall we? Hardcore membership of Combat 18
>is estimated at around the 100 mark. Membership of the ALF is around the 250
>mark but the hardcore element is probably half that - lets be generous and
>say 100.
What convenient educated guesses. I presume you have absolutely no
evidence to back up these estimates?
>The number of vegetarians in the UK is widely disputed with claims
>of between 4 to 10% of the population made. Let's be generous again and
>say 10%. So, from 6 million veggies, we get 100 hardcore activists, whilst
>from 56 million omnis, we also get 100 hardcore activists which means, in
>effect, a veggie is 9 times more likely to be involved mob violence and
>terrorism than an omni. There, that wasn't hard.
All you've proved (and I wouldn't call even that a proof) is that
membership of the ALF is a higher proportion of veggies than membership
of Combat 18 is of omnivores. This says nothing about levels of violence
in the population. I'd guess you'd find it hard to find any other groups
of veggies who are violent. Whereas, I'd have no trouble finding
evidence of other violent groups amongst the population as a whole.
Come back when you have some evidence.
>| Even if you did have such evidence, this would not be admissable as
>| evidence that vegetarians are more violent than omnivores.
>
>Why not? Condoning and supporting those who do perpetrate the violence is just
>as bad as carrying out the acts themselves. You appear to be arguing that
>Hitler wasn't a monster because he got other people to do the killing for him,
>thus was less culpable. Clearly this is false.
No. I'm saying that there is a difference between condoning violence
because you believe (mistakenly or otherwise) that it is in the common
good and actually perpetrating violence. That makes Hitler evil because
of his complete disregard for human life, but does not make him a
violent man as such.
BTW, you still haven't answered my suggestion that, by your definitions,
everyone who supports a Nato air strike is violent.
Richard Vialls
gnome <holly...@thopkins.demon.co.uk> writes
>Talking of Combat 18, wasn't Hitler a vegitarian?
If one more person brings up Hitler - I'm going to SCREEAAAMMMMMMM!
Nick Iredale
.com>, Rev. Timothy N Nurse <The_Minister@no_junk.xoommail.com> writes