possible cure for ME
praxis
Researchers think they have found the cause of CFS/ME. They have found that
sufferers have a chemical imbalance in the brain affecting cell membranes
and that this may be at the root of the illness.
They say that phospholipid metabolism in the brain is abnormal. They suggest
that high concentration EPA Fatty Acid Fish Oil supplements, which help
maintain the correct levels of phospholipids, may help sufferers.
After five years of this debilitating illness I hope they're right. They
don't say what they consider high levels to be and there is no contact
address.
Serena Blanchflower
>
> I have just seen this on the ITV teletext service.
>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2236698.stm
--
Cheers, Serena
Where nothing is sure, everything is possible (Margaret Drabble)
Alan Teeder
"praxis" <fc23...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:103121617...@iris.uk.clara.net...
It is on the BBC and other radio news this morning. It does not seem to be
in the major papers - tomorrow perhaps.
See
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2236698.stm
Alan
Dave
> It is on the BBC and other radio news this morning. It does not seem to be
> in the major papers - tomorrow perhaps.
>
> See
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2236698.stm
I would be wary of this for a number of reasons. First of all, the study
was only done on 16 people, and also they didn't actually do any studies
on whether fish oil does help people with CFS (they just said it *might*).
Also, there has been speculation in the past about whether supplements of
these same essential fatty acids could help with bipolar disorder and
schizophrenia, but the evidence isn't exactly conclusive so far (some
studies show that it helps, others that it doesn't).
Although I doubt that fish oil will cure CFS, it is probably still a good
idea to have a regular intake of fish oil whether or not you have CFS, due
to the health benefits associated with it.
Dave
Janie Thomson
I really want this to be true, but I'm very sceptical. I notice in the BBC
article they were quoted as saying that it might alleviate some symptoms.
No one mentioned a cure. I suspect quite a few of us have already tried
fish oils. I can think of 2 or 3 offhand who have taken fish oil in
combination with Oil of Evening Primrose. I think we would have heard if
they experienced a significant improvement, never mind a cure. After all,
how often do I go on about Olive Leaf Extract? How often does Hayek go on
about anti-fungals? We all love to share the things that have worked for
us. OEP is also high in fatty acids, though of a different type to the fish
oil variety. I currently take 4 X 80mg of GLA in the form of OEP daily and,
while yes I am in a particularly good phase just now, that recovery started
before I resumed the OEP. Also, I had taken the same dose for extended
periods while I was still quite ill and would report a slight lifting of the
brainfog, but nothing significant.
If anything, I think they may have discovered clinical evidence of one of
the things that ME causes, rather than the cause of ME. I would love to be
wrong though.
--
Janie
http://www.janie-thomson.co.uk
ME: http://clik.to/MEpages
journal: http://catsmother.diaryland.com
magneticstrawberry
support an organic cause for the illness have known about this for a
long time. Those who support a psychiatric cause supressed it.
Although it may help sufferers, it certainly ain't a cure.
Call me cynical, but I do wonder why this old hat has been regenerated
at this time - perhaps 'they' are trying to draw attention away from
the fact that the MRC are just about to give wee willy Wessley £2.6
million for further psychiatric research - good time to bury bad news
etc.
Mags
"praxis" <fc23...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<103121617...@iris.uk.clara.net>...
Chris Hodgkins
Yeah, saw it in the morning and evening papes we have here as well.
They did mention a name of Doctor Basant Puri from Hammersmith Hospital
London as leading the research, but as might be expected no exact
contact details.
cheers
--
Chris
Chris Hodgkins
> "praxis" <fc23...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:103121617...@iris.uk.clara.net...
>
<SNIPPED>
>
> It is on the BBC and other radio news this morning. It does not seem to be
> in the major papers - tomorrow perhaps.
Saw it in this mornings Times (thursday), don't know about the tabloids
or other broadsheets though.
cheers
--
Chris
Alan Teeder
"Chris Hodgkins" <ch...@slave.plus.com> wrote in message
news:GiRd9.3648$571.322642@wards...
On the positive side, the report did start with:-
"Chronic fatigue syndrome affects an estimated 243,000 people of all ages in
the UK.
It causes a wide range of symptoms including muscle pain, memory loss, and
severe exhaustion which can last many years and leave victims bed-ridden. "
So it may help in making people more aware.
Alan
Hayek
praxis wrote:
They have found that
> sufferers have a chemical imbalance in the brain affecting cell membranes
> and that this may be at the root of the illness.
Probably just a symptom.
> They suggest
> that high concentration EPA Fatty Acid Fish Oil supplements,
This will kill some candida-fungus in your gut and make
you feel better a little. This is also the reason why
cod liver oil has a good reputation.
I cannot stress the candida link enough.
http://www.infosky.net/~alexmi/candida.htm
Hayek.
--
...The times have been,
That, when the brains were out,
the man would die. ...
--Macbeth
Hayek
Janie Thomson wrote:
> I suspect quite a few of us have already tried
> fish oils. I can think of 2 or 3 offhand who have taken fish oil in
> combination with Oil of Evening Primrose. I think we would have heard if
> they experienced a significant improvement, never mind a cure. After all,
> how often do I go on about Olive Leaf Extract? How often does Hayek go on
> about anti-fungals?
Olive leaf extract & Olive oil are anti fungals.
from http://www.infosky.net/~alexmi/candida.htm
"Olive Oil" "can prevent conversion of Candida
Albicans from yeast to fungus form."
In fact, so many health food mantra's are anti-fungal.
Sourdough bread for instance does not contain yeast,
because yeast causes fungus problems.
The sodium bicarbonate in "Alka Seltzer" is anti fungal.
I wondered why soluble vitamin tablets gave me such
fatigue relief and non soluble pills did not. I thought
the soluble ones were better absorbed. But later I
realized that it was the sodium bicarbonate that made
the tablets solve, that was actually giving me the relief.
I must have tried over 50 different anti-fungal
strategies. Most of them work for some time, or are hard
to continue, like swallowing a spoon of olive oil every
day.
The most difficult thing is avoiding all sugar.
Especially while the rest of the family is having
desserts or a piece of cake at tea time.
Tony Houghton
Hayek <hay...@nospam.xs4all.nl> wrote:
> The sodium bicarbonate in "Alka Seltzer" is anti fungal.
>
> I wondered why soluble vitamin tablets gave me such
> fatigue relief and non soluble pills did not. I thought
> the soluble ones were better absorbed. But later I
> realized that it was the sodium bicarbonate that made
> the tablets solve, that was actually giving me the relief.
Did you get almost instant relief, or did you have to take the tablets
for several days?
--
TH * http://www.realh.co.uk
Janie Thomson
"Hayek" <hay...@nospam.xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:3D79B41C...@nospam.xs4all.nl...
Actually, and I accept it's just my opinion, I think you stress it too much.
I totally accept that it has worked for you, but how do you account for the
fact that I had extensive anti-fungal treatment, and stayed clear of all
sugars (even hidden ones in foods normally considered healthy) for 18
months, with no improvement in my health? I did have a candida problem,
which was dealt with by that regime, but it was a symptom of my ME, not the
cause. It got rid of some annoying symptoms, but it had no effect
whatsoever on the amount of fatigue and pain, or brainfog. Whatever seemed
to work for me in the Olive Leaf Extract (it could be entirely coincidental
that my recovery dated from the same time) I doubt very much it was its
anti-fungal properties, since I had been clear of candida for many years by
then.
I think candida is worth eliminating - both literally, and as a cause for
ill health. It's always worth suggesting to someone with those kinds of
symptoms. But, I think you're giving the impression that what worked for
you will work for everyone with ME, and that doesn't fit with my own
experience and lots of other people I know.
Peter Parry
wrote:
>I have just seen this on the ITV teletext service. Apparently, London
>Researchers think they have found the cause of CFS/ME.
I noticed this, according to one report the original research is
apparently some years old and in any case it involved only a very
small group of 8 people.
The study results were published in Acta Psychiatrica Scandinavica, a
well known peer reviewed psychiatric journal of good reputation.
I must say that the popular press stories have the hallmark of a
"placed" story, the same words appear in a number of the reports.
These stories are more or less press releases and are usually
circulated to the media by special interest groups of one form or
another.
In this case it may possibly be linked with a forthcoming conference
http://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/po/010911.shtml mainly concerned with Dr BK
Puris interests in ADHD and Dyslexia or possibly it has been
circulated by the publication itself.
Dr Puri has had a particular interest in fish oil (specifically oils
high in Eicosapentaenoic Acid or EPA) as a potential treatment in a
number of areas for several years. These have included ADHD,
Dyslexia, Dyspraxia, Huntingtons disease and schizophrenia.
The results so far in each of these fields have not been altogether
positive, but a very good source of EPA is Cod Liver Oil and a bottle
of Cod LIver Oil BP is quite cheap so its not going to break the bank
to experiment nor are there likely to be drastic side effects.
As far as I can see from the small amount of data available it
appears 10ml or so a day is a suitable dose so those vastly
overpriced capsules in pretty boxes are not a good choice.
I'm afraid its 2/3 of a tablespoon of the nice cheap BP stuff
followed by odd gurgling sounds, thrashing of limbs and weak cries of
"passtheorangejuiceandvodkaforgawdssake" if anyone wants to try it.
--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/
Peter Parry
(magneticstrawberry) wrote:
>Sorry, but I can't get excited about this. Apparently, those who
>support an organic cause for the illness have known about this for a
>long time. Those who support a psychiatric cause supressed it.
The research results were published in Acta Psychiatrica
Scandinavica, "The aim of Acta Psychiatrica Scandinavica is to
publish articles in English of high scientific quality representing
clinical and experimental work in psychiatry. The scope is to act as
an international forum for the dissemination of information advancing
the science and practice of psychiatry..."
Dr Basant Puri, the primary author, is a specialist in neuroimaging
and consultant in psychiatry at Hammersmith Hospital. He has had an
interest in CFS/ME for some years and his work in the past has been
supported by AFME.
<http://physiology.cup.cam.ac.uk/Proceedings/Abstracts/525P/ICL/Files/S67.html>
Hayek
Tony Houghton wrote:
Instantly.
But at the point where the candida problem got really
bad, it did not help much. But I did not know then it
was candida related.
Tony Houghton
Hayek <hay...@nospam.xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Tony Houghton wrote:
>
>> In <3D79C0AA...@nospam.xs4all.nl>, Hayek
>> <hay...@nospam.xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>
>>> The sodium bicarbonate in "Alka Seltzer" is anti
>>> fungal.
>>>
>>> I wondered why soluble vitamin tablets gave me
>>> such fatigue relief and non soluble pills did
>>> not. I thought the soluble ones were better
>>> absorbed. But later I realized that it was the
>>> sodium bicarbonate that made the tablets solve,
>>> that was actually giving me the relief.
>
>> Did you get almost instant relief, or did you have
>> to take the tablets for several days?
>
> Instantly.
In that case, I really don't think it's killing your candida. It takes a
while to kill off, and you usually feel worse at first while it releases
more toxins as it dies.
martin.conroy
things may help. Of course I went an bought 300 1000mg capsules as H+B had
them at half price!
I have a colleague in australia who has cured himself after many years of
trial (10) using a combination of Ester C, Cal-Mag chelated, Good Multi,
Extra B Complex, Carnitine, Glutamine, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Tyrosine. He also
used Milk Thistle at the beginning. The chinese say the Liver is the main
organ of immunity and when that goes you're in trouble.... It probably isnt
a world cure either but Im on a similar program now to see. Useful artcles
related to CFS/Cellular Injury/ALA/Liver
http://www.surgerydoor.co.uk/news/detail.asp?id=1928
http://www.positivehealth.com/permit/Articles/Nutrition/cabot37.htm
http://www.majidali.com/Hypothesis.htm
Hayek
Janie Thomson wrote:
> "Hayek" <hay...@nospam.xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:3D79B41C...@nospam.xs4all.nl...
>
>
>> I cannot stress the candida link enough.
http://www.infosky.net/~alexmi/candida.htm
>>
>>
>
> Actually, and I accept it's just my opinion,
Which I value very much.
> I think you stress it too much. I totally accept that
it has worked for you, but how do you account for
> the fact that I had extensive anti-fungal treatment,
> and stayed clear of all sugars (even hidden ones
> in foods normally considered healthy) for 18
> months, with no improvement in my health?
Could you share what exactly you mean by extensive
anti-fungal treatment ? Meds, dosage, duration, & diet ?
I did have a candida problem,
> which was dealt with by that regime, but it was a symptom
> of my ME, not the cause. It got rid of some
> annoying symptoms, but it had no effect whatsoever on
> the amount of fatigue and pain, or brainfog. Whatever
> seemed to work for me in the Olive Leaf Extract
> (it could be entirely coincidental that my recovery
> dated from the same time) I doubt very much it was
> its anti-fungal properties, since I had been clear
> of candida for many years by then.
It is the chicken or the egg question.
What comes first: the endocrinal dysfunction causing
candida overgrowth or the other way around?
The same goes for mycoplasma infection, is it cause or
effect of candidiasis ?
I read so much on this subject on the internet and I do
not know anymore. The fact is that the effect of the
medication seems to be waning. Or is it me getting used
to feeling good and shifting my expectations ?
>
> I think candida is worth eliminating - both literally,
> and as a cause for ill health. It's always worth
> suggesting to someone with those kinds of symptoms.
> But, I think you're giving the impression that
> what worked for you will work for everyone with ME,
That is the impression I got so far, and it has been
working out for most off the people I explained the
candida story to. But there were failures, but not
related to medication or diet. Some people got a TWO DAY
supply of one antifungal, their doctor thinking that
ought to be enough. Some people tried it for a few weeks
and although the results were very good they abandoned
it. Some people refused the allopathic medication and
swore by "only natural" cures, like oils and herb teas.
There is also the mycoplasma story and the amoebal and
parasital infection. I followed them too and got relief.
But I found it nearly impossible to convey that to my
friends & relatives. Although estimates are that 80% of
the people carry parasitical helminths (worms) it is
very hard to convince them. They rather believe they do
not have them. Also when I explain that candida exist in
everybody's gut as some 20 % of the intestinal flora, I
have to use the word 'yeast' because 'fungus' sounds too
dirty, and scares them so much, they do not want to
listen anymore.
They refuse to believe they have this although it is
present in every person. Most of the doctors are no help
either. Even when it was proven that the person got
relief with dramatic energy improvements, when they
switch back to their own doctors with the story their
doctors talked it down and in some cases even convinced
them it was a freak occurence.
Another stange thing I noticed is that people lose the
knowledge very fast. They do an antifungal cure, feel
lots better, and six months later I hear them
complaining again about fatigue, and they forgot all
about it. When I remember them, only then they run back
to their doctors and get well again.
> and that doesn't fit with my own experience and lots of
> other people I know.
Did you try mycoplasma, amoebal or helminthic treatment ?
Serena Blanchflower
martin.conroy said...
> I agree that its unlikely to be a cure. But that in conjunction with other
> things may help. Of course I went an bought 300 1000mg capsules as H+B had
> them at half price!
>
>
Hi Martin,
I think a welcome to upscm is in order!
Yes, I agree with your take, that it probably isn't a magic cure,
but may well help. I've been taking cod liver oil for a while, but
I'm now thinking of upping the dose significantly.
If you haven't already found it we have our own website with a
Welcome page for new posters at
http://www.upscm.co.uk/content.php?id=welcome
Although this group is for people with CFS/ME and their carers,
other visitors with an interest in CFS/ME are very welcome. We do
however ask you to respect the aims of the group (defined in the
charter, at http://www.upscm.co.uk/content.php?id=charter ).
Please remember that most of the people who post here have CFS/ME
and therefore have very limited energy. To reduce the strain on the
group we have developed certain ground rules which we would ask you
to follow. These are documented in
http://www.upscm.co.uk/content.php?id=postingtips
There's a comprehensive Links page too, with links to all the main
CFS/ME sites.
--
Cheers, Serena
44, ill since '83 with 12 years remission before it came back in '96
icarusi
news:k6bknuoi52fovqkcl...@4ax.com...
> I'm afraid its 2/3 of a tablespoon of the nice cheap BP stuff
> followed by odd gurgling sounds, thrashing of limbs and weak
cries of
> "passtheorangejuiceandvodkaforgawdssake" if anyone wants to try
it.
My mum was a great believer in 'cod liver oil and malt', but we
soon changed to Haliborange when it became available. If I ever
take cod liver oil again, it won't be 'neat'!
Icarusi
--
remove the 00 to reply
Serena Blanchflower
wrote:
>
>My mum was a great believer in 'cod liver oil and malt', but we
>soon changed to Haliborange when it became available. If I ever
>take cod liver oil again, it won't be 'neat'!
Aargh! Don't remind me! I had much the same. Like you, I'm not
sure I could face it neat (although the malt extract was OK), but if
it would cure my ME, I'm sure I would give it a go. I would need to
be pretty convinced though...
Janie Thomson
> Janie Thomson wrote:
>> > I think you stress it too much. I totally accept that
> it has worked for you, but how do you account for
> > the fact that I had extensive anti-fungal treatment,
> > and stayed clear of all sugars (even hidden ones
> > in foods normally considered healthy) for 18
> > months, with no improvement in my health?
> Could you share what exactly you mean by extensive
> anti-fungal treatment ? Meds, dosage, duration, & diet ?
It was 9 years ago now, so I don't remember the exact details. I seem to
remember starting off with several weekly doses of the one-shot Nystatin
tablet, then about 6 months worth of Flagyl. We stopped that because my doc
was concerned about my liver. I had loads of probiotics (acidophilus
capsules and live yoghurt), and it's easier to tell you what I ate than what
I wasn't allowed to. I sprouted my own beans and lentils, dressed with
olive oil, and ate fresh chicken and fish. Porridge for breakfast was my
main source of carbohydrate. I drank filtered tap water, with an occasional
cup of black coffee or herbal tea. I gargled daily with a drop of Tea Tree
oil mixed in a tumbler of water, and had a daily bath with a few drops added
to the water.
As far as my doc was concerned we were getting the candida killed off (I had
required ludicrously high doses of antibiotics to save my life a few months
earlier, which had got my bacteria levels well out of whack) and neither of
us expected there to be any effects on the ME. I can honestly say there
were absolutely no effects on my fatigue levels. After the 18 months I
started eating normally again. That had no effect on my fatigue levels
either, but at least it made life slightly more interesting. I have only
had one recurrence of candida problems in the intervening years, which
followed an antibiotic. It was dealt with by the Canesten one-shot pill,
and again had no effects on my fatigue levels either before or after.
>
> > and that doesn't fit with my own experience and lots of
> > other people I know.
>
> Did you try mycoplasma, amoebal or helminthic treatment ?
No.
Hayek
Janie Thomson wrote:
>> Could you share what exactly you mean by extensive
anti-fungal
>> treatment ? Meds, dosage, duration, & diet ?
>>
>
> It was 9 years ago now, so I don't remember the exact
> details. I seem to remember starting off with
> several weekly doses of the one-shot Nystatin
> tablet, then about 6 months worth of Flagyl.
Flagyl is no antifungal, it is anti amoebal. And
Nystatin is too weak to make any difference, Nystatin is
more of a fungistatic than a fungicide.
> I had loads of probiotics (acidophilus capsules and live
> yoghurt), and it's easier to tell you what I ate
> than what I wasn't allowed to. I sprouted my own
> beans and lentils, dressed with olive oil, and ate
> fresh chicken and fish.
> Porridge
very bad.
> for breakfast was my main source of carbohydrate. I
drank
> filtered tap water, with an occasional cup of
> black coffee or herbal tea. I gargled daily with a
> drop of Tea Tree oil mixed in a tumbler of water,
> and had a daily bath with a few drops added to the
> water.
>
> As far as my doc was concerned we were getting the
candida
> killed off (I had required ludicrously high doses
> of antibiotics to save my life a few months
earlier,
> which had got my bacteria levels well out of whack)
> and neither of us expected there to be any effects
> on the ME. I can honestly say there were absolutely
> no effects on my fatigue levels. After the 18
> months I started eating normally again. That had no
> effect on my fatigue levels either, but at least
> it made life slightly more interesting. I have only
> had one recurrence of candida problems in the
> intervening years, which followed an antibiotic.
> It was dealt with by the Canesten one-shot pill,
> and again had no effects on my fatigue levels
> either before or after.
Nine years ago sporanox did not even exist, neither did
lamisil, don't know about diflucan.
As far as I can see you did not really have anti-fungal
treatment. I took Nystatin for, say 9 days, and then
added sporanox. After a week or so my mental fog lifted.
It was an amazing experience, because I had it since I
was ten years old and never knew anything else.
When I was on my ninth month of sporanox, and after
reading a story about a guy (attached!) who took lamisil
(in a spiked dose of 1000 mg a day/ =4 tablets were only
1 a day is allowed), I decided to try lamisil too. I
woke up like an oiled snake, every joint, muscle, my
whole body was like moving by itself, almost without any
effort.
Again this was an amazing experience, being 42 and
feeling 22 again, but maybe I was not worth much when I
was 22 :-), because of this monster :-( .
That first nine months I did not do any diet, just took
sporanox, but I started to worry, because when I did not
take it for one or two days, the fatigue would come
right back. So I started venturing to other antifungals
& diets. I am now in my 33 month of antifungal
treatment. In the candida faq it says you need one month
of treatment for every year you were ill, and you cannot
count the months you were 'naughty' because of sugar en
other dietary sins.
Two days ago I noticed on the bottle of "Ultradophilus"
as you can guess by the name a mixture of lactobacillus
acidophilus, bifidus & other benign gut flora, that you
can take double the dose for a 'health cure'. I tried it
and it seems to be working. Better vision, no fatigue,
even high energy nervousness, mental clarity. Been
working again on relativity, for my book about "Time".
I suggest you give Nystatin followed by sporanox a try,
and I sincerely wish you have the same results as I had.
Read the attached story.
Janie Thomson
>
>
> Janie Thomson wrote:
>
>
> >> Could you share what exactly you mean by extensive
> anti-fungal
> >> treatment ? Meds, dosage, duration, & diet ?
> >>
> >
> > It was 9 years ago now, so I don't remember the exact
> > details. I seem to remember starting off with
> > several weekly doses of the one-shot Nystatin
> > tablet, then about 6 months worth of Flagyl.
>
>
> Flagyl is no antifungal, it is anti amoebal. And
> Nystatin is too weak to make any difference, Nystatin is
> more of a fungistatic than a fungicide.
Odd that it cleared my Candida then. One small correction - it was Diflucan
and not Nystatin. I did have an oral suspension of Nystatin just after I
came out of hospital, but it was Diflucan I had regularly.
> I suggest you give Nystatin followed by sporanox a try,
> and I sincerely wish you have the same results as I had.
Why on earth would I do that? I don't have Candida overgrowth. I did have
for a period of years, now I don't. I was well clear of Candida for several
years without any effect on my fatigue levels.
I sincerely hope you are having regular liver checks.
> Read the attached story.
Attachments are not permitted on upscm, for future reference. Hayek, I've
heard it all before. If you look back in the archives of this group you
will see that the subject comes up every so often. As I said in my original
reply to you, Candida overgrowth is always worth eliminating. However, I
find the suggestion that all pwme are really suffering from Candida
overgrowth, and we just don't know it, as offensive as the CBT/GE lobby
telling us it's all in our heads. I'm glad it's worked for you, but the
fact it has suggests we're suffering from different conditions.
Serena Blanchflower
<ja...@janie-thomson.co.uk> wrote:
>I'm glad it's worked for you, but the
>fact it has suggests we're suffering from different conditions.
Yes, I agree and was planning to post along these lines. It seems
quite clear that CFS is a bucket diagnosis covering a number of
different conditions, including ME. I think it is quite likely that
severe Candida overgrowth is another of the conditions which can
result in a CFS diagnosis.
Hayek
Tony Houghton wrote:
> In that case, I really don't think it's killing your candida. It takes a
> while to kill off, and you usually feel worse at first while it releases
> more toxins as it dies.
That might apply for some anti-fungal substances.
Beer and other alcohol made me also feel better almost
instantly. That was a very nice side effect of my
anti-fungal therapy : I quit drinking without any effort
and immediately, I just lost intrest, because it did not
make me feel better anymore. All my 'cravings'
disappeared one by one.
I think sodium bicarbonate also destroys some of the
toxins released by candida. Oils do not seem to do this,
but look at the red faces people get when they eat fat
foods. And when they drink wine : I am convinced that
this red blushing face is a typical symptom of candida
die-off.
I saw a comic sketch about fat policemen constantly
eating, and these comedians are keen artists, they
notice real life : they gave all the actors this reddish
face, sure sign of candida.
Hayek
Janie Thomson wrote:
[...denial...]
Someone told me he was going to import Lactobacillus
Acidophilus (LA) from a former east-bloc country. I had
tried LA and it had little or no effect on me. In fact
it made me feel worse. He goes on and on about his LA,
that it is a more potent strain, that the commercially
available capsules are badly prepared, that little LA
survives the journey to the shop, let alone be the ones
that make it to your gut. That Yakult and Actimel,
available in the supermarkets here in Belgium, contain
little or none surviving flora. I somewhat agree because
I never felt any positive result from these.
But I can get LA from the health food store containing
billions of LA and from the pharmacist. No result, so I
decide, just like you did, this is not for me. I even
start to doubt his whole story, that you can cure
candidiasis with LA, or even make it improve the slightest.
He asks me to send a few e-mails where he mentioned the
potency. The unused bottle, full of capsules with LA,
sits in my fridge, unadmired. So I take it out and
compare it with the fax. Then I notice the bottle says
:"for a cure double the dosage" . That small print,
disguised inbetween lots of trivial information.
So I decide to do this cure. And now it helped big time.
Last 5 days no fatigue. Been sinning with bread, cake &
chocolate desserts, still no fatigue.
So I was sceptical for almost 3 years, not believing the
LA story, and now it turns out I was not taking enough.
But of course, it could be that it did not work because
candida was still too dominant and had to be reduced by
the other antifungals and my gut had to heal, before
recolonisation with LA could take place.
Or, through my stubborness, i took bags of
liver-dangerous anti-fungals while a large enough dose
of LA would have done the trick in a much more healthy way.
If I had taken your viewpoint "I heared and seen it all
before" I would have missed it completely.
I keep trying in all possible directions and although
sometimes things look desperate, in the end I get some
improvements.
Hayek.
--
...The times have been,
That, when the brains were out,
the woman would die. ...
--Macbeth
Janie Thomson
> Or, through my stubborness, i took bags of
> liver-dangerous anti-fungals while a large enough dose
> of LA would have done the trick in a much more healthy way.
And yet you were quite willing to recommend to me that I take those
liver-dangerous anti-fungals, when you have absolutely no evidence that I
suffer from Candida overgrowth. Do what you want with your own health,
Hayek, but please give me credit for having the intelligence to make my own
decisions about mine, based on my own experience. I fear you are the one in
denial if you continue to insist that everyone who has any illness that
includes an element of fatigue (I understand you have made similar posts on
an AIDS forum) is really Candida overgrowth, despite the volume of evidence
people have given you that the various things you have recommended have had
no effect on them.
> If I had taken your viewpoint "I heared and seen it all
> before" I would have missed it completely.
I take it you have also tried the jumping off a high building therapy, then?
100% of the people who tried it never complained of fatigue again. We all
have to use our own judgement. And I had heard the story before. My point
was that this was not new information to me, not that I never consider new
information.
NoTime
Janie Thomson wrote:
> And yet you were quite willing to recommend to me that
> I take those liver-dangerous anti-fungals, when
> you have absolutely no evidence that I suffer from
> Candida overgrowth.
Do what you want with your own health,
> Hayek, but please give me credit for having the
intelligence
> to make my own decisions about mine, based on my
> own experience.
All the things I got (relatively) well with were
recommended by stories of people I read about on the net.
> I fear you are the one in denial if you continue to
insist
> that everyone who has any illness that includes an
> element of fatigue (I understand you have made similar
> posts on an AIDS forum)
> is really Candida overgrowth, despite the volume of
evidence
> people have given you that the various things you
> have recommended have had no effect on them.
I first read about a possible link between cfs and
candida on the internet around 1997. My mother in law
suffered cfs since her youth (she was born in 1927), we
went to a farmacist (we had given up on doctors) and
asked what medication there was against fungus. We were
told : on large dose of diflucan. We got the difuclan
prescribed, and it made no difference to her cfs. So it
had no effect. 4 years later when I got such excellent
results with the other medication(1), she tried it too.
For her it took a few days to kick in, but then her
fatigue cleared too, big time. Same for some 45 other
people who were more or less fatigued.
(1) By accident, because I took it for a fungal
bronchitis, and I was amazed that my mental fog and
fatigue cleared, I did not even know I had fatigue or
mental fog because these symptoms were with me since I
was 10, so to me they were normal, before that I never
experienced adult health without fog or fatigue.
About aids & cfs :
After reading tons of documentation on Chronic fatigue,
candida and on aids, not intentionally, but each time
you look up treatments on candida you bump automatically
into persons with aids treatment.
- In a survey(1994) to Chronic Fatigue sufferers, when
asked by what name they would like their illness to be
referred to, one woman answered : CFIDS, meaning Chronic
Fatigue Immune Dysfunction Syndrome. What is the
difference between CFS and Aids then ? The one is
fatigue + immune dysfunction and the other is immune
dysfunction + fatigue ?
- I downloaded the novel by Charles Ortleb , "The
closing argument", I can send you the .pdf if you like,
and here is a striking excerpt :
"
I think that as a result of what you have heard here you
now realize that our government has had a policy of
lying to us during the supposedly different
epidemics of AIDS and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
"
The novel is not really fiction, it is dramatized
reality, he refers to the book by Hillary Johnson :
"Osler 's Web:Inside the Labyrinth of the Chronic
Fatigue Syndrome Epidemic", New York:Crown,1996
- It gets worse : continuum magazine states that the
Protease Inhibitors are actually very active against
candida, this is found in an in vitro test. Protease
Inhibitors were the "wonder drugs" that cleared peoples
fatigue, and made them stand up from their deathbeds,
and go back to work, the so called "lazarus" effect. On
average, they did not live longer because of the toxic
side effects of the drugs.
- From another article from continuum magazine :
"
The candida connection: Yeast growth can give rise to a
positive HIV test.
"..I.". 'One half of the molecular weight of ['HIV']
gpl2O is represented by oligomannosidic oligosaccharides....
Polyclonal antibodies to mannan from yeast also
recognise the carbohydrate structure of gpl2O of the
AIDS virus'; 12
2. 'The immunochemical determinants of the antigenic
factors of Candida albicans display a high identity with
the glycoprotein (gp) 120 of HIV-1: they contain (x(I ->
2)- and (x(I -> 3)-linked mannose terminal residues';13
3. Antibodies to the mannans of Candida albicans 'block
infection of H9 cells by HIV- 1' as well as the binding
of lectins to gp 120;13
4. Recognition of gp 12O by antibodies to a synthetic
peptide of the same antigen was 'partially abolished if
it was absorbed with the total polysaccharide fraction
of C.albicans' while the antigen recognition by
antibodies to 'gp 120 from human T-cell lymphotropic
virus type IIIB ... was totally blocked'. From these
data the authors concluded: 'These results indicate that
mannan residues of C.albicans can serve as antigens to
raise neutralising antibodies against HIV infection';13 ....
7. Not only mycobacteria (M. leprae, M. tuber-culosis,
M. avium-intracellulare) but also the walls of
all fungi (Candida albicans s, Cryptococcus neofor-mans,
Coccidioide,s iinmitis, Histoplasma capsulatum,
including Pneumocystis carinii), 16-18 contain
carbohy-drate (mannans).
One hundred percent of AIDS patients ( even those with
'no Candida clinically') have C.albicans antibodies,
leading researchers from St. Bartholomew's and St.
Stephen's Hospitals to state: 'It is possible that
Candida may act as a cofactor in the development of
overt AIDS in HIV-infected individuals'.19 It may also
be of interest to note that in gay men the only sexual
act which is a risk factor for seroconversion is passive
anal intercourse (exposure to semen)20 and that mannose
is present in both sperm and seminal plasma..." from HIV
antibodies: further questions and a plea for
clarification. E. Papadopulos-Eleopulos, V.F. Turner,
J.M. Papadimitriou, G. Stewart, D. Causer. Current
Medical Research and Opinion. Vol. 13, No.10, 1997.
pp627-634
"
Hayek.
--
...The times have been,
That, when the brains were out,
Serena Blanchflower
> What is the
> difference between CFS and Aids then ? The one is
> fatigue + immune dysfunction and the other is immune
> dysfunction + fatigue ?
Hi,
Welcome to upscm!
There are huge differences in the symptoms and progression of the
two illnesses. There are also a number of very significant
differences in the type of immune dysfunctions found in AIDS and ME.
Deborah Kelly
writes
>- In a survey(1994) to Chronic Fatigue sufferers, when
>asked by what name they would like their illness to be
>referred to, one woman answered : CFIDS, meaning Chronic
>Fatigue Immune Dysfunction Syndrome. What is the
>difference between CFS and Aids then ? The one is
>fatigue + immune dysfunction and the other is immune
>dysfunction + fatigue ?
There are massive differences between AIDS and CFS. The principle
similarities are that both diseases cause immune dysfunction and many
doctors have described CFS as symptomatically similar to the initial
stages of AIDS. Another similarity is that there is a lot of speculation
about possible treatment.
The principle differences are these:
1/ Transmission - many folks with CFS, particularly children, have never
been in a position that would risk an exchange of bodily fluids. That's
the only way you can contract HIV. Whatever causes CFS, you have to be
able to catch it by some other means.
2/ Prognosis - many people with CFS appear to make a 100% recovery.
Almost all statistics reveal that most people gain at least some
remission. This is not the case with AIDS. Now they can keep people
alive for a lot longer, but their is no recovery to be made.
3/ Origins - we know that AIDS is caused by the HIV virus - it's viral
and it's only existed in the human form for a relatively short period of
history. Evidence points towards CFS also being viral in origin, a
similar disease to polio and of having been around for centuries, but
this is not known for sure. That's why some folks are able to suggest a
fungal origin. It makes sense that both people with CFS and HIV and AIDS
would experience things like fungal infections because they are getting
all sorts of infections anyway, and it may well be possible that anti-
candida treatments have the added bonus of aiding them in some other
capacity. However, a virus is quite literally a different sort of
organism to a fungus.
The fact is that many of us have gone down the candida route in our
desperation for a recovery, taking powerful drugs, going on extremely
strict diets and they haven't done us any good. For some people, like
yourself, it has either picked them up or even instigated full
remission. However, there are many other foods, medicines, supplements,
behaviour and regime changes that have helped people similarly that it
seems unwise for us, as folks having to deal with the pain of this
disease every day for periods of years, to hang all our hopes and
efforts on this one, seemingly unlikely, explanation.
Hope that helps,
Deborah :-)
Hayek
Deborah Kelly wrote:
When I save a message and get it back later,
it sometimes give me the wrong e-mail adress.
Notime is Hayek of course.
> There are massive differences between AIDS and CFS. The principle
> similarities are that both diseases cause immune dysfunction and many
> doctors have described CFS as symptomatically similar to the initial
> stages of AIDS. Another similarity is that there is a lot of speculation
> about possible treatment.
>
> The principle differences are these:
>
> 1/ Transmission - many folks with CFS, particularly children, have never
> been in a position that would risk an exchange of bodily fluids. That's
> the only way you can contract HIV. Whatever causes CFS, you have to be
> able to catch it by some other means.
read :
http://www.virusmyth.net
> 2/ Prognosis - many people with CFS appear to make a 100% recovery.
> Almost all statistics reveal that most people gain at least some
> remission. This is not the case with AIDS.
> Now they can keep people
> alive for a lot longer, but their is no recovery to be made.
Some people w. hiv+ do not experience even the tiniest
problem. Only if they do not take the lethal medication.
> 3/ Origins - we know that AIDS is caused by the HIV virus
No, we don't.
http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/cjinterviewep.htm
http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/index/epapadopoulos.htm
> However, a virus is quite literally a different sort of
> organism to a fungus.
If you read my post, you see that candida can *trigger*
an hiv test by producing the same antibody. I never said
a virus was the same organism as a fungus.
So a person just suffering from candidiasis, can get a
hiv+ diagnosis.
> The fact is that many of us have gone down the candida route in our
> desperation for a recovery, taking powerful drugs, going on extremely
> strict diets and they haven't done us any good. For some people, like
> yourself, it has either picked them up or even instigated full
> remission.
From what I have seen it is worth trying.
But I also took a road against mycoplasma and amoebal
infections.
Janie Thomson
"NoTime" <not...@xs4all.be> wrote in message
news:3D82E3F9...@xs4all.be...
>
>
> Janie Thomson wrote:
>
>
> > And yet you were quite willing to recommend to me that
> > I take those liver-dangerous anti-fungals, when
> > you have absolutely no evidence that I suffer from
> > Candida overgrowth.
>
> Do what you want with your own health,
> > Hayek, but please give me credit for having the
> intelligence
> > to make my own decisions about mine, based on my
> > own experience.
>
>
> All the things I got (relatively) well with were
> recommended by stories of people I read about on the net.
Me too, but that doesn't mean that everything I read on the net is true.
Deborah Kelly
<hay...@nospam.xs4all.nl> writes
>read :
>http://www.virusmyth.net
Unfortunately, this is highly controversial and although we never know
what the future holds, i.e what turns out to be the truth of a matter,
this speaks in the current climate of a politically motivated conspiracy
theory. The political motivation being the denial of responsibility when
the country Mbeki is running is very literally dying of a disease he
would seem to prefer to debate about than act upon. This may not be the
case - the HIV : AIDS link may be a conspiracy of an entirely different
nature, but without medical qualification, I'd be inclined to trust
popular scientific opinion on this one.
<snip> back to about candida and CFS:
> From what I have seen it is worth trying.
I think what is key here is that anything is worth a go so long as it
doesn't risk making a person's situation worse. This is not purely a
clinical concern, i.e that a person doesn't become more sick, but
without more evidence, none of us need to go mortgaging our homes or
even raising our hopes beyond reasonable optimism about these things.
Strict limiting diets are fairly miserable to be on. It's a lot of
trouble, often too much trouble, especially for those of us who are
unable to cook or shop for ourselves. It's also not good for us to cut
out a lot of foods which are usually easy contributors to our
nutritional health, e.g fruit, bread and cereals. Powerful drugs are
miserable things to take, especially for PWME who tend to be sensitive
to side-effects. Naturally, if these things lead to full recovery, we
would all do what we could. However, the way things currently stand, I
think it is probably only worth trying for those of us who can afford to
risk the disappointment.
Deborah :-)
Hayek
Deborah Kelly wrote:
> Unfortunately, this is highly controversial
You should judge for yourself.
> this speaks in the current climate of a politically
motivated
> conspiracy theory.
No conspiracy, just sloppiness, very familiar to us
CFSME sufferers.
> The political motivation being the denial of
responsibility
> when the country Mbeki is running is very
> literally dying of a disease he would seem to prefer
> to debate about than act upon.
There are no more deaths now than before aids. It is not
just a few mad scientist contesting the existence of a
virus. There is a non-materialising epidemic in the
west, and there are epidemics in countries where there
are no dependable statistics. The reason fore Mbeki's
dissidence is that they get death figures from the World
Health organisation that largely exceed the real
numbers. South Africa keeps reasonably good statistics
and that is in essence what the clash is all about.
The best article on South Africa appeared in Rolling
Stone Magazine one year ago.
AIDS IN AFRICA
In Search of the Truth
By Rian Malan
Rolling Stone 22 Nov. 2001
http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/rmafrica.htm
two excerpts:
"
It therefore seemed to me that checking the number of
registered deaths in South Africa was the surest way of
assessing the statistics from Geneva, so I dug out the
figures. Geneva's computer models suggested that AIDS
deaths here had tripled in three years, surging from
80,000-odd in 1996 to 250,000 in 1999. But no such rise
was discernable in total registered deaths, which went
from 294,703 to 343,535 within roughly the same period.
The discrepancy was so large that I wrote to make
absolutely sure I had understood these numbers
correctly. Both parties confirmed that I had, and at
that exact moment, my story was in trouble. Geneva's
figures reflected catastrophe. Pretoria's figures did not.
"
&
"
In 1948, Uganda's British rulers attempted a rough
census in the Masaka area and concluded that the annual
death rate was "a minimum of twenty-five to thirty per
thousand." A second census, in 1959, put the figure at
twenty-one deaths per thousand. By 1991, it had fallen
to sixteen per thousand. Enter Daan Mulder with his
blood tests, massive funding and armies of field
workers. He counted every death over two years, and then
five, and here is his conclusion: The crude annual death
rate in Masaka, in the midst of a horrifying AIDS
plague, was 14.6 per thousand - the lowest ever measured.
"
> I'd be inclined to trust popular scientific opinion on
> this one.
I will refer you again to our experiences with CFS & ME.
chris
<pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> writes
>
> I'm afraid its 2/3 of a tablespoon of the nice cheap BP stuff
>followed by odd gurgling sounds, thrashing of limbs and weak cries of
>"passtheorangejuiceandvodkaforgawdssake" if anyone wants to try it.
>
Erk! - flashback to my childhood and the daily administering of a
spoonfull of cod liver oil and malt extract. Bleah!
--
chris
"Women have very little idea of how much men hate them"
Germaine Greer
Deco
> spoonfull of cod liver oil and malt extract. Bleah!
You big jessie. Drinking Cod Liver Oil is nothing compared what I had
to endure. I dreamt of Cod Liver Oil it was so bad. What a luxury.
I tell you what's traumatic. Flashbacks? You don't know the meaning of
the word.
I had to swallow five tablespoons of 'Milk Of Magnesia' followed by
half a glass of 'Castor Oil'. It was horrific. I'm still in therapy :)
Deco
chris
<de...@ny.com> writes
You must have been VERY bad. That definitely comes under the heading of
cruel and unnatural punishment.