8 Medical Lies and Why I Abandoned Medicine

[john]

http://www.healthliesexposed.com/articles/article_2005_08_19_3132.shtml

eALERTS - Sunday, August 21, 2005
Back To Stories <<<

8 Medical Lies and Why I Abandoned Medicine

Date: 8/19/05 Author: Shane Ellison, M.Sc.
Source: www.earlytorise.com

8 Medical Lies and Why I Abandoned Medicine, By Shane Ellison, M.Sc.,
Early
to Rise © 2005, www.earlytorise.com

By education and by trade, I was a drug chemist. My passion for science

motivated a successful career in drug design and synthesis - in both
academia and industry. As a scientist, I witnessed first-hand the
priorities of international pharmaceutical companies (Big Pharma),
which
ranked wealth first and health a distant second.

In the pharmaceutical industry, making money supercedes science.
Science no
longer prevails in medicine. Instead, modern medicine has been
democratized. Drug approval is a simple matter of 51% telling the other
49%
that a prescription drug is safe and necessary. The outcome: deadly
drugs
are approved for use among misinformed medical doctors and patients.
Herein
lies a story of deceit and a chemist's abandonment of modern
medicine.

My suspicion of modern medicine began while I was employed by Eli Lilly
to
design a new generation of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) drugs.
Such
drugs include tamoxifen and raloxifene. Initially, these drugs were
thought
to block estrogen receptors (excess estrogen can initiate cancer
growth)
and thereby halt cancer. As time progressed, though, it was learned
that
they were also capable of activating estrogen receptors. The end result
was
a biochemical environment favorable to cancer growth among users.[1]
The
Journal of the American Medical Association recognized this trend and
stated "our data add to the growing body of evidence that recent
long-term
use of HRT is associated with an increased risk of breast cancer and
that
such use may be related particularly to lobular tumors."

The risk of cancer associated with HRT drugs was obscured from doctors
by
drug companies. This can be seen by the fact that tamoxifen is the
gold-standard used by medical doctors to fight cancer among their
patients,
particularly breast cancer. This explains why medical doctors might not

notice its ability to cause cancer - the patient already has it.

At any rate, my task was made clear: Design HRT "knock-offs" that
are
effective without causing cancer.

My attempt to design safer alternatives was unsuccessful. And after one

year, the project was ended. However, access to HRT drugs like
tamoxifen
was not. They remained on the market.

The fuel driving the continued use of HRT drugs was disinformation via
Direct-To-Consumer (DTC) advertising. Since 1962, monitoring DTC
advertising has been the sole responsibility of the Food and Drug
Administration (FDA). But in a ghastly conflict of interests, the FDA
granted the duty of DTC advertising to the pharmaceutical companies in
1997. Officially, this was done as a means of "promoting health
awareness
to ensure health and safety." Unofficially, it was done to sell more
drugs.
DTC advertising dictated that all women over 50 should use HRT to
remain
healthy. Women scurried to their doctors to ask if "HRT was right for

them." My suspicion grew into conflict.

The disinformation campaign behind HRT drugs was not an isolated case.
I
learned that drug advertising and science are frequently in direct
opposition to each other. For example:

DTC advertising dictates that lowering cholesterol prevents heart
disease.
Science proves otherwise.

DTC advertising dictates that an aspirin a day will keep heart attack
away.
Science proves otherwise.

DTC advertising dictates that depression is a disease that must be
treated
with prescription drugs. Science proves otherwise.

DTC advertising dictates that ADHD is a disease and that our children
must
be treated with amphetamines. Science proves otherwise.

DTC advertising dictates that infants must be vaccinated to prevent
childhood illness. Science proves otherwise.

DTC advertising dictates that blood pressure must be controlled via a
lifetime of servitude to prescription drugs. Science proves otherwise.

DTC advertising dictates that chemotherapy is your first line of
defense
against deadly cancer. Science proves otherwise.

DTC advertising dictates that Type II diabetes must be treated with
daily
insulin use. Science proves otherwise.

By spreading the aforementioned health myths, DTC advertising forges a
belief among the general public which asserts that drugs - not
lifestyle
habits and nutrition - confer health and longevity. And although, in
reality, medicine is only necessary for sick people in times of
emergency,
DTC advertising has been wildly successful in convincing people that
being
healthy requires a lifetime of prescription drug use. While it's true
that
the advertising usually mentions the potential side effects of drugs,
doctors tend to discount them. They simply regurgitate the
pharmaceutical-company line that "the benefits of a drug outweigh the

risks." Don't believe it.

Western Medicine's plague of deception is deadlier than any virus,
illicit
drugs, and terrorism combined. Well-documented in scientific journals
and
reported by media outlets nationwide, FDA approved drugs are killing an

estimated 106,000 people every year.[2] That equates to one individual
dying every five minutes from "approved" drugs - 300 people dying
every
day. Which is twice as many deaths in a single year from "approved
drugs"
as the total number of U.S. deaths from the Vietnam War.[3] This does
not
count death by hospital medical error, which adds 98,000 deaths to the
atrocity.[4] If not killed, an estimated 2 million people are victims
of
drug-induced illnesses.[5] These may include drug-induced obesity,
cancer,
kidney disease, autism, depression and heart failure.

Hypnotized by DTC advertising, people are oblivious to the ill effects
of
prescription drug use. This is evidenced by their willingness to
swallow
whatever "the doctor ordered." They drug their children, hop the
borders to
smuggle inexpensive prescription drugs back into the U.S., beg their
congressman for discounts and pay a lifetime of insurance fees in order
to
snatch up these silent killers. The avalanche of DTC advertising has
smothered common sense.

For the general public and medical doctors to fully grasp the effect of

Modern Medicine's Deceit, they have to judge the situation by what a
drug
is actually accomplishing, rather than what the drug company ads and
pharmaceutically-compliant politicians insist. The health benefits of
prescription drugs are illusory. Step away from the hypnotic drug ads,
close the ghost-written medical journals, discard research studies
dominated by statistical contortionists and give yourself a
prescription-drug reality check: Very few prescription drugs have any
value
outside of emergency medicine and those that do can usually be replaced

with safer and less expensive natural medicine. This was a troublesome
lesson for me, as an aspiring drug chemist, to learn. Unfortunately, it
was
not the only one.

Humanitarianism among Big Pharma has been abandoned. The technical
skills
of chemists are not being used for humanitarian purposes. They are
being
used in a deadly game of profiteering. Those at risk are not the
misinformed, high-paid medical doctors but rather their patients.
Becoming
aware of this ripple effect of DTC advertising led to my abandonment of

modern medicine.

I had to face the cold, hard facts: Western Medicine has become a
billion
dollar empire not out of keen science, but rather deceit. The end
result
has been one nation under drugs. This subjugation has set a standard of

health in America that, by definition, is sick care disguised as health
care.

Forward thinking chemists recognize the deadly trend. But few have the
luxury of speaking out or resigning. The majority of chemists in the
U.S.
are foreigners. Their career secures them the right to live and work in
the
U.S. This demands allegiance to their employer, regardless of the end
result of their labors. Admittedly, that this is an intentional act of
Big
Pharma is speculative.

Individuals outside of the drug industry often question my conflict
with
Big Pharma. How can a single person denounce a philosophy adhered to by

millions of medical doctors? That is simple: I ignore the majority
thinking
that is steeped in disinformation. I stand firm in science. Truth in
science requires only one scientist to verify reproducible results in
the
face of pharmaceutical tyranny.

Science proves that habits, not drugs, create and eradicate disease.
The
current devastation of prescription drugs is a warning that healthy
lifestyle and nutrition habits must replace blind worship of
prescription
drugs in the pursuit of life-extension. As people obtain better health
intelligence and heed this warning, drug use will recede. A new model
of
health care based on common sense, not profiteering, will emerge.

About the Author

Shane Ellison is dedicated to stopping prescription drug hype in its
tracks. To this end, he has made it his mission to introduce healthy
lifestyle habits as well as safe and effective nutritional supplements
to
the public. With his keen ability to sift through scientific literature
and
weed out fact from fiction, Shane has empowered thousands to assert
their
health freedom by saying "no" to prescription drugs. Learn more at
www.healthmyths.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

[1] Sally, A. et al. Estrogen Plus Progestin and the Incidence of
Dementia
and Mild Cognitive Impairment in Postmenopausal Women. Journal of the
American Medical Association. 2003;289:2651-2662.
Chen CL, Weiss NS, Newcomb P, Barlow W, White E. Hormone replacement
therapy in relation to breast cancer. Journal of the American Medical
Association. 2002 Feb 13;287(6):734-41.
Spurgeon, D. Long Term use of HRT Doubles Cancer Risk. British Medical
Journal. 2003 Jul 5;327(7405):9

Yoneva T. Taniguchi K. Tsunenari T. Saito H. Kanbe Y, Morikaw K,
Yamada-Okabe H. Identification of a novel, orally bioavailable estrogen

receptor downregulator. Anticancer Drugs. 2005 Aug;16(7):751-6.

Labrie, F. et al. EM-652 (SCH 57068), a third generation SERM acting as

pure antiestrogen in the mammary gland and endometrium. The Journal of
Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology. 1999 Apr-Jun;69(1-6):51-84.

[2] Starfield, Barbara. Is US Health Really the Best in the World?
Journal
of the American Chemical Society, July 26, 2000-Vol 284, No.4.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7503122/

[3] There were an estimated 58,000 U.S casualties in the Vietnam War

[4] Moride Y, Haramburu F, Requejo AA, Begaud B. Under-reporting of
adverse
drug reactions in general practice. British Journal of Clinical
Pharmacology, 1997 43: 177-181.

[5] Tejal K. Gandhi. et al. Adverse Drug Events in Ambulatory Care. The
New
England Journal of Medicine. Volume 348:1556-1564. April 17, 2003.
Number 16.

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[Sommerfeldt]

Interesting read, but one sould always be critical of statements like
these - there are a lot of disgruntled individuals out there...
That being said, I too am a great believer in the natural medicine
department, using several natural products myself, to avoid having to
use the "manufactured" ones... That and my fear of anything
pill-shaped, of course... ;)

-S-
--------------
http://tni.com/105267

[Jeff]

Why anyone would think that drug companies are in business to help people is
beyond me. They are in business to make money. Like phone companies, car
companies, oil companies and defense contractors.

Jeff

[jdeer...@yahoo.com]

And that is perfectly as it should be.

Lots of lines are getting crossed, though. The field
is of vital interest to the public. Therefore the public,
in the form of the government, has put in place protocols
for protecting public interests.

When "making the money" crosses the lines and starts
playing interference with the public protection, it
shows that it's in dire need of a very rude awakening.

Companies aren't responsible for looking out for
the people. They are responsible for maximizing
their profits. But a company playing fast and
loose with evidence suppression, using public
relations money to derail future research, and
other such shenanigans, they have crossed the
line from "profit making" into "criminal activity".

Somehow, I also don't think it's right that companies
can lobby and use profits to get laws passed that protect
their interests at the expense of consumers. This is
a terrible direction, even though it is legal.

[Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com]

COMMENT:

It's the same thing. You can't fool most of the people all of the time
for long. If they don't think they've been helped, they will soon quit
giving you their money, and then you won't make any. Very few drug
companies are fly-by-night soon to go bankrupt companies like Enron.
They plan on being around for a long time, and giving people inactive
pills that kill them is not conducive to that. Even giving people
active pills that kill them *sometimes*, is bad for business (ask
Merck).

We are back to the old question of what people WANT versus
(supposedly) what they actually NEED. If you think "the people"
themselves are not to be trusted with this choice, then it is logical
to first attack the institution of democracy itself. Leave business in
general and pharm companies in particular, for later.

We've come to one of my major beefs with leftist social-democrats or
democratic socialists, which I cannot repeat enough times. These people
want socialist democracies to control business and medicine, on the
grounds that business and medicine (especially medicine run as
business) is too clever at fooling adults into wanting things that
aren't good for them, sort of like children's breakfast-food
advertising. But behold, the social-democrats' CURE for this malady is
to have it all controlled by elected policitians, who are chosen by the
people after political campaigns. :( Hmmmm.

See the problem? The social-democrats haven't quite got it figured out
yet. They're still trying to get business and private money out of
politics (apparently they want only government money in politics :)),
but have not gotten to the realization that if people aren't wise
enough to pick the best political candidate in the face of
overspending, they aren't likely and magically going to be wise enough
to do it in the face of perfectly balanced funding, either (not that
the Right really overspends the Left much anyway). And people who are
too dumb to spend their *money* wisely after any ad campaign, can't
really be trusted to elect their government wisely after any political
campaign. But with no campaigns you can't have any democracy. Any more
than you can have any real jury trials without a prosecution and a
defense. The bottom line is whether you trust people to wield power on
their own behalf or not. If you do, I see no reason to think that the
man or woman you trust to cast a ballot, cannot be trusted to spent his
or her own money.

SBH

[Brad_Chad]

I had a chronic fatigue problem for 40 years. I never realized that I
had a corn and dairy intolerance. Slick doctors will tell everybody
that food ALLERGIES are very rare. They don't tell people that food
SENSITIVITIES are very common. It all depends on how you define
"allergies" or "intolerances". Corn (High Fructose Corn Syrup, Corn
Starrch, distilled vinegar, MSG, corn oil) is in most processed foods.
Corn, wheat, dairy, and many other foods are used to make all types of
food additives.

You can eat something made from a food today and get a migraine 3 days
later. This is called a delayed reaction. Delayed food allergies can
trigger acne, eczema, asthma, hayfever, fatigue, migraines, sleep
disorders, ADD, depression, and many other problems. Everybody with
these health problems do not necessarily have food sensitivities
though. It varies from individual to individual. You can find out more
info by talking to a naturopathic doctor or an alternative doctor.

Take Care,

Brad_Chad

[john]

Moment of clarity jeff? And who runs medical doctors, yes, drug
companies. Go figure

[Jeff]

"john" <wha...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1124958181.1...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Moment of clarity jeff? And who runs medical doctors, yes, drug
> companies. Go figure

No, it is insurance companies, hospitals and patients who really run
doctors. I totally agree that drug companies shouldn't have as much
influence on docs, but they clearly don't run them.

Jeff

[tund...@hotmail.com]

john wrote:
> http://www.healthliesexposed.com/articles/article_2005_08_19_3132.shtml
>
>
> eALERTS - Sunday, August 21, 2005
> Back To Stories <<<
>
> 8 Medical Lies and Why I Abandoned Medicine
>
> Date: 8/19/05 Author: Shane Ellison, M.Sc.
> Source: www.earlytorise.com
>
> 8 Medical Lies and Why I Abandoned Medicine, By Shane Ellison, M.Sc.,
> Early
> to Rise © 2005, www.earlytorise.com
>
> By education and by trade, I was a drug chemist. My passion for science

Very interesting and no surprise to me. You should post it here:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.nutrition?gvc=2&hl=en

That is a better forum for exactly this discussion.

TC

[Sushi Fish]

The business of pharmacetical is to make money.
One of a maker of sugar substitute claimed the body can't distinguish
it from sugar since they have same "chemical compound" I don't know how
many people believed what they said, sugar is a natural nutrient,
substitute has no nutrient value and it doesn't even taste the same. It
is humorous to hear "same chemical compound". Put a cup of Pepsi and
diet Pepsi in the back yard, go ask the ants.

Most drugs are essential (antibiotic..), few are fad can even cause
harm. Most drugs has its side effect. Taking drug is like to douse the
whole skyscraper to put out fire in one office.

[dcho...@ev1.net]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well what is your point ?

[LadyLollipop]

<dcho...@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:1125383498.4...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Well what is your point ?

Whose point?

[jdeer...@yahoo.com]

Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com wrote:

> See the problem? The social-democrats haven't quite got it figured out
> yet. They're still trying to get business and private money out of
> politics (apparently they want only government money in politics :)),
> but have not gotten to the realization that if people aren't wise
> enough to pick the best political candidate in the face of
> overspending, they aren't likely and magically going to be wise enough
> to do it in the face of perfectly balanced funding, either (not that
> the Right really overspends the Left much anyway). And people who are
> too dumb to spend their *money* wisely after any ad campaign, can't
> really be trusted to elect their government wisely after any political
> campaign. But with no campaigns you can't have any democracy. Any more
> than you can have any real jury trials without a prosecution and a
> defense. The bottom line is whether you trust people to wield power on
> their own behalf or not. If you do, I see no reason to think that the
> man or woman you trust to cast a ballot, cannot be trusted to spent his
> or her own money.

I think you are misunderstanding some things.

There is such a thing as the rule of law. I may trust
you to spend your own money wisely, but if the storekeeper
is using a bad weighing scale and is cheating you, I won't
blame you for falling victim to it. In that case, I would
expect the legal system to fully be able to prosecute
the storekeeper.

A company's purpose is to make money for its investors.
The way to do that is to build the product it is supposed
to, or to provide the service it is supposed to. The way
to do that that is not by affecting the laws of the land.

A company is not a person. As such, it has no business
playing with democracy. It can't vote. Therefore it
shouldn't be allowed to play any politics. The only
corporations that should be allowed to interfere
with politics are those that were formed explicitly
for that purpose -- and therefore that represent some part
of the public.

Otherwise, companies, which represent more wealth
than individuals, will naturally subvert a democracy
for their own purposes.

The end result will be -- you will be told that you MUST
take vaccinations x, y and z (because you can't be trusted
to make those decisions yourself), that you MUST give up
your home if some corporation wants to develop the
land (because the corporation represents the greater
good), that you MUST take the medicine that's officially
prescribed (because you can't understand the complex issus)
and so on.

Everybody loses in that scenario, because even the corporate
chairman of company X needs to drink water (that he can
only get from company Y as that's the only 'officially trusted'
source anymore in 2100), and the chairman of company Y
must take the vaccinations that make money for company X
but are expensive placebos or worse. The only winners in
this future would be some obscure numbers on
various spreadsheets.

[Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com]

jdeer...@yahoo.com wrote:
> A company is not a person. As such, it has no business
> playing with democracy. It can't vote. Therefore it
> shouldn't be allowed to play any politics. The only
> corporations that should be allowed to interfere
> with politics are those that were formed explicitly
> for that purpose -- and therefore that represent some part
> of the public.
>
> Otherwise, companies, which represent more wealth
> than individuals, will naturally subvert a democracy
> for their own purposes.

COMMENT:

I can make the opposite observation that if you prevent corporations
from participating in politics, you merely allow them (and their
owners/shareholders) to be simply robbed by the voters, since they have
no numerical way of defending themselves. Democracy can be 3 wolves and
2 sheep voting on what to have for lunch. Corporations are sheered all
the time as it is. Some are actually killed. This causes the voters to
whine to the government because they can't find jobs.

The answer is not for everybody to become a federal employee. The feds
have no money of their own-- they take it from you, and from your
bosses (which means you don't get the payraise).

I can't teach you leftists about capitalism by talking about it. You
need to learn about it by doing it. Start your own business, and see in
how many ways the "voter" is sucking away at you, starting with your
state business encorporation fee, you state business license, all the
taxes from City Hall, and moving up through the highest levels of
government to your corporate income tax. Deal with the stupid
regulations. Worry about the stupid insurance. Wrestle with the legal
liability issues. See if you can meet a payroll. Savor the joys of the
Work Comp system, which you get to pay into.

Or at the very least, if you can't do any of that, invest in the stock
market. Get a good feel for the idea that capital is risk, and risk
means you sometimes lose. Then enjoy the capital gains tax even when
you do win....

SBH

[jdeer...@yahoo.com]

Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com wrote:
> jdeer...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > A company is not a person. As such, it has no business
> > playing with democracy. It can't vote. Therefore it
> > shouldn't be allowed to play any politics. The only
> > corporations that should be allowed to interfere
> > with politics are those that were formed explicitly
> > for that purpose -- and therefore that represent some part
> > of the public.
> >
> > Otherwise, companies, which represent more wealth
> > than individuals, will naturally subvert a democracy
> > for their own purposes.
>
>
>
> COMMENT:
>
> I can make the opposite observation that if you prevent corporations
> from participating in politics, you merely allow them (and their
> owners/shareholders) to be simply robbed by the voters, since they have
> no numerical way of defending themselves. Democracy can be 3 wolves and
> 2 sheep voting on what to have for lunch. Corporations are sheered all
> the time as it is. Some are actually killed. This causes the voters to
> whine to the government because they can't find jobs.

This observation has been made many times in different forms,
but I don't see people lining up to vote for larger and
larger welfare schemes! I don't think that's because
the corporations are protecting us from it. I think
that's because the basic argument "people are basically
selfish and unfair" isn't valid. True, people are selfish.
People are also altruistic. Moronic. Brilliant. Heroic.
Cowards. The people are lots of things, and simplistic
arguments like people are "3 wolves and 2 sheep voting
for lunch", have simply not turned out to be correct.

> The answer is not for everybody to become a federal employee. The feds

Of course not. What does that have to do with anything?

> I can't teach you leftists about capitalism by talking about it. You
> need to learn about it by doing it. Start your own business, and see in
> how many ways the "voter" is sucking away at you, starting with your
> state business encorporation fee, you state business license, all the

I don't know about you, personally I like the tax breaks
for businesses. Sometimes it seems fair, sometimes it seems
less than fair, sometimes it seems more than fair. Like lots
of things, it is a complicated issue.

But if the state business encorporation fee, the state business
license fee, and other such things are an actual monetary
concern in your business, may I point out

a) You need to think about how to increase your business
slightly beyond the toy story stage,

or

b) You need to read the book "innumeracy", which points out
how many people have no clue when it comes to relative
scales of numbers,

or

c) You need to realize that your money perspective is such
that you will never ever be happy about money. E.g. you
should not go to restaurants, because any enjoyment you
get out of the food and the setting will be totally
cancelled by the state tax (if any) of the food, or perhaps
the tip you had to leave for the "bloodsucking" waiter.
You should also realize that your sorry mental state
is, fortunately, not shared by most people.

But getting back to the topic, none of that has to do
with capitalism. In your capitalistic role, you need
to focus on your product/service and compete as best
as you can. In your citizen role, you need to focus
on your politics and voting. When you mix up the roles,
you are doing something that you very well
know you shouldn't be. It is not something anybody
rational and farthinking can be proud of. Only somebody
totally mentally sick from the "corporation as god"
sickness can think it is normal.

[Happy Dog]

<jdeer...@yahoo.com> wrote in

> Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> jdeer...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > A company is not a person. As such, it has no business
>> > playing with democracy. It can't vote. Therefore it
>> > shouldn't be allowed to play any politics. The only
>> > corporations that should be allowed to interfere
>> > with politics are those that were formed explicitly
>> > for that purpose -- and therefore that represent some part
>> > of the public.
>> >
>> > Otherwise, companies, which represent more wealth
>> > than individuals, will naturally subvert a democracy
>> > for their own purposes.
>>
>> COMMENT:
>>
>> I can make the opposite observation that if you prevent corporations
>> from participating in politics, you merely allow them (and their
>> owners/shareholders) to be simply robbed by the voters, since they have
>> no numerical way of defending themselves. Democracy can be 3 wolves and
>> 2 sheep voting on what to have for lunch. Corporations are sheered all
>> the time as it is. Some are actually killed. This causes the voters to
>> whine to the government because they can't find jobs.
>
> This observation has been made many times in different forms,
> but I don't see people lining up to vote for larger and
> larger welfare schemes!

I suspect you wouldn't even if you were waiting in that line. Do you have
experience owning and operating a small (1 - 10M/yr) business?

moo

[Jan]

Although I mostly believe the comments you have made I would value
references to the 'Science proves otherwise' statements.

I think I have read that statistically more people are seeking the help of
alternative medicine, it would be interesting to learn why. Certainly
through my experience, it is not hard to believe it could be due to a lack
of results and what appears (unbelievably) to be a lack of understanding of
some conditions. This might suggest that some people suffering from the
various complaints would agree with the 'Science proves otherwise.'

Jan

"john" <wha...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:1124817626.3...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

[Rich]

"Jan" <JanetMc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dgj7qe$bob$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...

> Although I mostly believe the comments you have made I would value
> references to the 'Science proves otherwise' statements.
>
> I think I have read that statistically more people are seeking the help of
> alternative medicine, it would be interesting to learn why. Certainly
> through my experience, it is not hard to believe it could be due to a lack
> of results and what appears (unbelievably) to be a lack of understanding
> of some conditions. This might suggest that some people suffering from the
> various complaints would agree with the 'Science proves otherwise.'
>
>
> Jan

Ms. McDonald--

This is the first post I have seen from you in this group. You should be
aware that there is another Jan here who posts more, and contributes less,
than anyone else. She has the paranoid belief that she is being persecuted
by a "*gang*" and wh's been known to stalk some of the people she identifies
as "*gang*" members. She calls any and all "liars", and is a proven racist
as well. To avoid being mistaken for her, or even being associated with her,
you may want to change your handle, even though Jan Drew calls herself "Lady
Lollipop" most of the time.

That said, let me state that I disagree with your comment. It's my
experience that many people, in a spirit of New Age rebellion against the
"establishment" do seek out "alternative" practitioners for their everyday
healthcare needs. And those practitioners serve them well for all the
self-limiting aches and pains and minor illnesses. But when they get really
ill, they invariably revert to fact-based medical care. Yes it does happen
the other way around, too, as you describe. But that scenario is commonest
with patients with somatization disorders, who are dissatisfied with their
doctor's refusal to assign a physiological cause to their discomforts, and
interpret the encounter as "lack of results and what appears to be a lack of
understanding". Persons with terminal conditions also often turn to
alternative medicine methods, but unless an alternative quack convinces them
otherwise, they usually stay with their doctor's plan of treatment as well.

Welcome to the group, Jan. Your input is most welcome.

--Rich

[Robert]

"Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:QjbXe.306$EA4...@tornado.socal.rr.com...

I agree with all of that. There is a place for alternative medicine. There
are too many people filling our ER with minor ailments that have
psychological components. These are prime candidates for alternative people
who claim to have a disease in which doctors are unable to diagnose and
conditions that are stealth to the medical doctors.
Some how even the homeless have figured out who provides health care needs
when they need them. I think we should send them to health food stores and
they should get everything they need for free and let the owners of the
store pay for it all.

[LadyLollipop]

"Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:QjbXe.306$EA4...@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>

> "Jan" <JanetMc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:dgj7qe$bob$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> Although I mostly believe the comments you have made I would value
>> references to the 'Science proves otherwise' statements.
>>
>> I think I have read that statistically more people are seeking the help
>> of alternative medicine, it would be interesting to learn why. Certainly
>> through my experience, it is not hard to believe it could be due to a
>> lack of results and what appears (unbelievably) to be a lack of
>> understanding of some conditions. This might suggest that some people
>> suffering from the various complaints would agree with the 'Science
>> proves otherwise.'
>>
>>
>> Jan
>
> Ms. McDonald--
>
> This is the first post I have seen from you in this group. You should be
> aware that there is another Jan here who posts more, and contributes less,
> than anyone else. She has the paranoid belief that she is being persecuted
> by a "*gang*" and wh's been known to stalk some of the people she
> identifies as "*gang*" members. She calls any and all "liars", and is a
> proven racist as well. To avoid being mistaken for her, or even being
> associated with her, you may want to change your handle, even though Jan
> Drew calls herself "Lady Lollipop" most of the time.

Ms. McDonald--

This is the first post I have seen from you in this group. You should be

aware there is a *gang* here who do not believe in alternative medicine.
Rich Shewmaker has declared this fact. He also has declared, he does not
care that certain members of his *gang* lie to me, this newsgroup, their
mother, or the pope. He lies and posts proven lying websites. He is a
harasser, as he has done above.A word of caution, be aware not to report
anything of a personal nature. This is most unfortunate, as this newsgroup
should be one to exchange information. However, because of this *gang*, you
will be personally attacked and the list goes on.

That said, wecome to this group, Jan

>
> That said, let me state that I disagree with your comment. It's my
> experience that many people, in a spirit of New Age rebellion against the
> "establishment" do seek out "alternative" practitioners for their everyday
> healthcare needs. And those practitioners serve them well for all the
> self-limiting aches and pains and minor illnesses. But when they get
> really ill, they invariably revert to fact-based medical care. Yes it does
> happen the other way around, too, as you describe. But that scenario is
> commonest with patients with somatization disorders, who are dissatisfied
> with their doctor's refusal to assign a physiological cause to their
> discomforts, and interpret the encounter as "lack of results and what
> appears to be a lack of understanding". Persons with terminal conditions
> also often turn to alternative medicine methods, but unless an alternative
> quack convinces them otherwise, they usually stay with their doctor's plan
> of treatment as well.
>
> Welcome to the group, Jan. Your input is most welcome.
>
> --Rich

What Rich has given is the famous P S Y C H O B A B B L E

Thanks, once again to Marvin for his posting.
The entity *somatization disorder* is psychobabble and is obtained from the
DSM-IV manual and is used by psychologists and psychiatrists.MD's have
borrowed
the entity for their own uses. It is a spurious diagnosis with no
laboratory
indicators.

that somatization disorder is a kind of junk category into which physicians
dump patients presenting with mind/behaviorialsymptoms and/or a history of
such
which the physician does not fancy or understand, especially if the patient
does not present with symptoms or symptoms which are not separate diagnoses
(also anon-scientific way of separating symptoms and causality) . I
mentiont
his because mercury and lead are both known to cause primarily "psychiatric"
symptoms, with a history of emotional instability, etc.in patients.

So a "scientist" is someone who makes "a priori" judgements about what
neurological symptoms a heavy metal poisoned patient can and cannot have. A
"scientist" demands laboratory indicators whenever his fraternity does so.
When the fraternity does not do so, the esteemed scientist Rx's Prozac like
*mad*. But if the patient's complaints appear in some kind of package
which
don't meet the prejudices of the male clinician/voodoo doctor, then it's
necessary to pull out theDSM-IV manual and wax on about scientific
discipline
and create from thin air a "somatization disorder".

It's just another way of saying that one can create a loose definition of a
nebulous condition and then stretch it to label anything which appears
bizarre,
so that rather than actually diagnose and solve problems you can dump the
ones
you don't like into the recycle bin andlet the DSM-IV manual thumpers profit
from the stash. That way everybody is happy. The male voodoo doctor gets
to
see himself as a scientist and the psych therapist gets another client.

I believe that SD is used by doctors who do not like the idea that
conditiions
which affect the brain cause certain mental states and behaviors which are
not
in keeping with their own requirements for how disease is supposed to
manifest
in the human body. I believe the medical profession has an alliance with
the
psych profession because they share a common belief system.

No, the starting point is to go back to college and unlearn the psychobabble
taught to physicians in med school. But that cannot be done--with all the
psychological investments involved in the career and selfhood and one's
supremecy of being--so instead one wages war on the Chronic Fatigue,
Fibromyalgia, and Multiple Chemical Sensitivitysyndromes, since these
syndromes
are diseases of both body and brain,in which affective disorders are
documented
in all three. But since the Freudian-psychobabble-educated physician
suffers
cognitivedissonance when presented with these, the syndromes must be
attacked.
Continuing education is not an option. Instead, reality must be shaped to
fit
the psychological needs of the profession, and the patients need to be
hazed.

So rather than counsel with a psychotherapist over issues of selfhood and
megalomania and deep insecurity which interfere with the process of
continuing
education--which is also the scientific process itself--it is necessary to
reformulate these disease syndromes so that they fit into the 20th-century
mind-body conceptual dualism taught to physicians, in which brain diseases
are
separate from diseases of thebody and mind states are separate from both.
This
needs to be done despite the fact that poisons such as lead and mercury have
been known for 100 years to poison the brain, body, and mind all at the same
time. So Science needs to be bent and manipulated to serve a profession
which
maintains a conceputal framework which is not rooted in Science, and those
teachings must be maintained for those sychologically inclined to
conservatism
and intellectual dominance,all properly wrapped in the impressive rhetoric
of
scientific and clinical objectivity.

A lot of your responses are flak garbage which you use to exhaust
pariticpants.
I made my position perfectly clear. Decades of psychobiological research,
including century-long scientfically acquired knowledge on the effect of
poisons such as heavy metals on the brain, show that mood and mental states
can
and do derive fromorganic origins. Meanwhile state-credentialed MD's are
writing books and articles about how biological psychiatry is
"pseudoscience",
a"myth", and a "fraud". On *this* subject the present generation is
corrupt,
and is not going to give up its intellectual commitment to the psychobabble
it
received in med school.

On the issue of MCS, ascribing "affective disorders" to "psychologicalf
actors"
is an opinion which is rammed through as Science. It is accompanied by
dismissive descriptions of mind states and behavior of the patients, with
all
kinds of unscientific judgements andassumptions as to 1) whether those mind
states and behavior arelegitimate (e.g. fear of chemicals, stress of chronic
illness), and 2)whether the mind states and behavior have an organic or
non-organic origin.

MCS *will* receive a fair hearing only when the medical profession gives up
its
intellecutal commitment to the teachings of psychology as the only
explanation
for how mind states and behavior alter with disease.

You asked me for evidence of "mind-body conceptual dualism" and I just gave
an
example from a psychobabbling physician in this thread. Your technique is
to
bait and throw out idiotic flak, so that now we can have a separate
existential
debate as to whether there really is adualistic mind-body conception in
modern
medicine.

Yes, physicians do recognize a connection between the two--they call it
somatization disorder. That is, your boyfriend broke up with you and you
are
self-pitiful due to your past child raising and have along history of
maladaptive behaviors and you have sunken into depression and can't
concentrate
and now your immunity has sunk and now you have an infection etc etc. They
may
*also* talk about a"psychological component" as being the result of chronic
stress from the illness.

But the medical profession is selective about when the connection operates
in
one direction vs. the other.

The fact is, there isn't an economy for the problem of chronic mercury and
lead
exposure causing maladaptive dysfunctional unhealthy minds and behaviors.
Not
because the science doesn't exist to support it. But because the economy
doesn't exist to produce the professional intellect to study, talk about,
and
treat it. The psychotherapists and psychologists would be in less demand.
There would be no drugs to patent. Hence the facts are dropped from
consciousness. That mercury and lead f**k up people's emotions and minds
(in
addition to a hundred other symptoms) is so dropped out of consciousness
that
MD's can write books that argue that Biological Psychiatry is a fraud.

As a result, one must conclude that MCS is not caused by poisons--which just
about everyone who has the illness and has clinical experience treating it
argues--but rather is a somatization disorder.

This is how economy and professional cultures distort reality and allow
ingrained assumptions and bias to manipulate and distort the process of
scientific inquiry.

No, many physicians recognize that they are often dealing with illnesses
that
involve both the mind & the body. It would seem as if you are attributing
their admission of this fact to some sort of denial instead. Incorrect. But
commonly the same conclusion that some patients erroneously arrive at if the
doc declines to attribute the illness to physical factors alone.

This thread is in the context of MCS. Within the context of this subject
physicians *do not* generally conceive or discuss depression*or* anxiety in
any
terms other than the psychologist's, regardless *how* the psychologist
constructs the relationship, it is the*psychologist's* constructiona and the
psychologist's ideology. The very own terminology employed by the author of
the medical textbook cited, who is at the pro-MCS end of the debate *within*
the mainstream, is that it is an illness with "psychological factors".

Since you mention arthritis in the context of this thread on MCS (which is a
disease its propopents argue is the result of*poisoning*), I will say that
poisons such as lead and mercury commonly causes brain symptoms *first*,
because these poisons are emically attracted to brain tissue. The first
stage
of these poisonings is commonly brain symptoms only. Patients may suffer
depression or anxiety for *years* before the symptoms originating in organs
*below neck* emerge in sufficient degree to cause the patient to seek care.
So
the depression in these cases does *not* follow arthritis and the depression
is
not something "psychological" *asdistinct* from the physical. The
depression
is not of the"psychological" domain. It is a physical symptom no less than
arthritis. It is not a "component" and it is not a "factor". It is
a*symptom*.

The problem is conceptualizing depression and anxiety as being in adifferent
category than "physical" symptoms. This division in thought is reflected by
your own use of language and the very manner in which you discuss depression
in
relation to other symptoms. Depression commonly bears no relation to the
other
symptoms except they both share a similar cause in some *poison* which has
attacked the brain together with other organs in the body.This
conceptualizing
is largely responsible for the opposition to these diseases by the medical
profession.>

Depression is not a *component* by "a priori" assumption. If doctors want
to
assume the nature of the pathology in a conceptual framework and language
*originated by psychologists*, then they should seek psychology as a career
and
*not* human physiology. If doctors want to educate us about how depression
affects human health--but *not* how mercury and lead affect affect brain and
emotional and mental health--then they should be psychologists and lecture
on
Ophrah Winfrey, but *not* manipulate the research and interpretation of MCS
research by projecting their own indoctrination onto reality.>

Depression needn't be a *component* and it needn't be a *factor *simply
because
psychologists (and physicians loyal to their ideology) insist that it be so.

I do not agree that I am arguing with myself and I do not agree we are
simply
talking about terminology. I have a good first-hand understanding of the
disease, I have a good understanding of non-mainstream discussions of the
disease, and I have good understanding of mainstream discussions of the
disease. Within the mainstream the depression/anxiety is presently
discussed
as being a"factor" or "component"--*not* a symptom. Ten years ago the
depression/anxiety was discussed as being *causative*. There has beena
gradual
shift in language as the disorder has been *grudgingly*accepted as being
somatic, but the acceptance has been gradual, in which the
depression/anxiety
has altered from being "primary" to being a "factor" or a "component". No
this
is not simply terminology but reflects changing conceptions of the disease
as
the medical society isslowly accepting that chemical intolerance exists, but
cannot shake lose its belief system for how depression and anxiety play a
role
in these diseases.

You say that much is not understood about the disease. Then I expect that
the
medical society which you defend *suspend* its assumptiosn about
depression/anxeity being primary *or* a "component" or "factor"in any
causative
way regarding chemical intolerance, and to cease using language which
communicates that very conception.

A neurologist who has decribed what actually happens in MCS is that the
brain
is abnormally stimulated by the chemical and an electrochemical reaction
occurs
in the brain in which the neurotoxicant glutamate is released and brain
cells
swell and the patients suffers debiliitating symptoms. He further states
that
this process is a process of ongoing injury to brain cells, a disease of
pre-existing brain cell injury with continuing brain cell injury
uponchemical
exposures. He reached these conclusions after studying changes in EEG
measurements in which patients were exposed tochemicals such as paint,
gasoline, perfume, lacquer, etc. He found wildly altering EEG measurements
upon chemical exposure and found evidence of dementia in the patient in
various
areas of the brain, with brain function deteriorating upon exposure. This
neurologist'sattempt 10 years ago to gather a scientific audience for his
findingsresearch was frustrated and obstructed while at the same time
descriptions by mainstream medical scientists and professionals of
"affective
disorders" being primary or a causitive "factor" or"component" are accepted
without question. I think that if one examines the *neurological*
observations
made and explanations advanced for what is happening in the brain upon
chemical
exposures, one would find the descriptions of "affective disorders" and
"somatization disorders" as being causitive "components"/"factors" to be
asinine in their utter vacuity with regard to the subject.

So I do not even agree with the primacy which is given to anxiety/depression
in
these diseases because examinations of the disease which actually have some
neurobiological depth find that anxeity/depression have little to do with
the
disease process. It is a sideshow produced by persons who know nothing of
the
disease and are prefectly content to send both the patients and neurological
investigations into their disease into the garbage chute. What has been
occuring has been a type of medical and sociological final solution to a
disease and its sufferers which appear to be bizarre to many uninformed.

But because the numbers of affected is so high, the culture and the society
is
forced to make some kind of adjustments in its willingness to admit the
reality
of the disease, but because it resists explanations outside of the
intellectual
box it has been taught, it still cannot accept chemical intolerance because
it
cannot fit the emical intolerance together with the affective disorders,
because it is not willing to alter its dogma regarding how affective
disorders
present themselves with other brain symptoms in body-brain diseases.

No I'm sorry but this is not simply about terminology.

Don't kid yourselves. If you think the debate is resolved by physicians who
like to throw around big terms like "somatization" as if they are experts on
the topic, don't kid yourselves. Go get your Shrink's license and do the
kind
psycho babbling and psycho labelling instead of passing yourselves off as
honest scientists. In that role, rather than as the frustrated shrinks you
presently are, you can get all the hard-ons you want writing profiles for
Abnormal Psychology journals.

By the way, I just recently spoke to a mother of an autistic child who said
her
child has "raging" chemical sensitivities. This I think will demand some
more
inventive, delusional, and self-elevating psychobabble from frustrated
psychologists in the physicians lounge. Autistic children make good meat for
physicians contemptuous of new diseases which stretch their education.

Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and Multiple Chemical Sensitivity
syndromes are beyond the medical education and intellect of the present
generation. The medical textbooks which properly deal with these diseases
medically and scientifically will be written by the next generation. The
present generation of sci/med professionals generally will protect its
intellectual turf until it retires, and hese patients will be scoffed at,
ridiculed, marginalized etc. until fresh yound minds, which will not find
these
diseases to be strange, will give these diseases the study and respect they
deserve

[Carey Gregory]

>Ms. McDonald--
>
>This is the first post I have seen from you in this group. You should be
>aware there is a *gang* here who do not believe in alternative medicine.

Here? Where is "here?" This thread is being cross-posted to 5 groups,
only one of which is "alternative."

[LadyLollipop]

"Carey Gregory" <tiredof...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:7jqsi1hd7fsga15ce...@4ax.com...

Then, that should answer your question.

[Carey Gregory]

"LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote:

lol.... You rather missed the point, didn't you?

[cathyb]

A point must be very blunt indeed for Lollipop not to miss it.

Cathy:)

[Robert]

"LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:cWsXe.138129$084.71717@attbi_s22...

Stop cross-posting. Sci.Med has nothing to do with misc.health.alternative

[David Wright]

In article <dgj7qe$bob$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,

Jan <JanetMc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Although I mostly believe the comments you have made I would value
>references to the 'Science proves otherwise' statements.

So would I. But you won't get them out of John, who knows as much
about science as a pig knows about pattycake.

Furthermore, I don't believe that, in fact, "science proves otherwise"
in many of those cases, and I seriously wonder about the credentials
of the original author.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

[Brad_Chad]

I had eczema, asthma, hayfever, and chronic diarrhea from hidden
food sensitivities for YEARS. I saw many conventional doctors who
couldn't do a thing. An alternative doctor did something about it. Many
of his patients used to have acne, psoriasis, and many other problems
that were VISIBLE. Their problems are gone. They also have more energy,
and less pain.

Many conventional doctors said years ago that chronic fatigue syndrome
did not exist. The Wall Street Journal reported recently that Chronic
Fatigue patients have been found to have certain genetic abnormalities.
It looks like certain doctors got egg in their face.

Brad_Chad

[LadyLollipop]

"Brad_Chad" <Brad_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1127288326.2...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Wait a minute, you agree with ALL of what he stated?
>

[Rich]

"Brad_Chad" <Brad_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1127288326.2...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
>> >

It's interesting that those are all diseases that have psychosomatic
components.

> I saw many conventional doctors who
> couldn't do a thing. An alternative doctor did something about it. Many
> of his patients used to have acne, psoriasis, and many other problems
> that were VISIBLE. Their problems are gone. They also have more energy,
> and less pain.

Is this "doctor" sharing his case histories with you? That would be illegal
and unethical. In any case, that would be anectdotal evidence at best, and
those "visible" disorders are the sort that often improve for no apparent
reason.

>
> Many conventional doctors said years ago that chronic fatigue syndrome
> did not exist. The Wall Street Journal reported recently that Chronic
> Fatigue patients have been found to have certain genetic abnormalities.

Ah, yes. That esteemed medical journal of Wall Street. Did WSJ say just who
found these "genetic abnormalities" and where they were reported?

> It looks like certain doctors got egg in their face.

Not yet.

The Fibromyalgia Multiple Chemical Sensitivity Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
Blues
By Rich Shewmaker

I've got my copper bracelet,
I've got magnets in my shoes.
I take some melatonin when,
I feel the need to snooze.
I read Prevention magazine,
To get the latest news,
But I've got the fibromyalgia multiple chemical sensitivity chronic fatigue
syndrome blues.

I've seen an iridologist,
A chiropractor, too.
Acupuncture twice-a-week,
I'm needled through and through.
I've been Reikied, rubbed, and healing touched,
And Rolfed until I'm bruised.
But I've still got the fibromyalgia multiple chemical sensitivity chronic
fatigue syndrome blues.

I gave up meat and milk and sweets,
I live on nuts and greens.
I buy all kinds of supplements,
From herbs to spirolines.
I've done a thorough colon cleanse,
(I'll spare you the reviews.)
But I've still got the fibromyalgia multiple chemical sensitivity chronic
fatigue syndrome blues.

I drink my urine every day,
I use Clark's "zapper", too.
I tie myself in yogic knots,
Do Tai Chi, and Kung Fu.
My psychic healer counsels me,
To heed my spirit muse.
But I've still got the fibromyalgia multiple chemical sensitivity chronic
fatigue syndrome blues.

< blues guitar break >

I've tried Naturopathy, Aromatherapy,
Ayurvedic and Qi Gong.
Reflexology, Homeopathy,
Teas from old Hong Kong.
I've read the books and heard the tapes,
And learned alternative views.
But I've still got the fibromyalgia multiple chemical sensitivity chronic
fatigue syndrome blues.

©Rich Shewmaker 2005

--

--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

[LadyLollipop]

"Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

news:Ql8Ye.6819$Cg....@tornado.socal.rr.com...

What a hoot!!!

eczema

http://www.skincarephysicians.com/eczemanet/treatment.html

If a food allergy is suspected, testing for allergic reactions to eggs,
milk, peanuts, soy, wheat, fish, and tree nuts (e.g., walnuts, cashews) are
usually performed as these foods are responsible for 85% of all food
allergies. A positive allergy test does not confirm the food allergy. A
suspected food allergy must be subjected to a "challenge." A challenge is
conducted by having the patient eat the suspected food and observing the
patient for a reaction. Even a challenge does not guarantee that the food is
the trigger because: 1) another trigger may be present and causing the
reaction or 2) the patient's reaction may be delayed. Consequently, allergy
testing has limited value. However, it is useful for eliminating foods that
cause immediate and severe reactions or welts.

asthma

http://www.cdc.gov/asthma/faqs.htm

Environmental Tobacco Smoke, Also Known As Secondhand Smoke
Parents, friends, and relatives of children with asthma should try to stop
smoking. Until they can successfully quit, they should smoke only outdoors,
not in the home or in the family car. They should not allow others to smoke
in the home, and should make sure the child's school is smoke-free.
Dust Mites
Mattress covers and pillow case covers provide a barrier between house dust
mites and the person with asthma. Down-filled pillows, quilts, or comforters
should not be used and stuffed animals and clutter should be removed from
bedrooms.
Outdoor Air Pollution
Pollution caused by industrial emissions and automobile exhaust can cause an
asthma episode. In large cities that have air pollution problems the number
of emergency department visits for asthma episodes goes up when the air
quality is very poor.
Cockroach Allergen
You may find cockroaches any place where food is eaten and crumbs are left
behind. Decreasing exposure to cockroaches in the home can help reduce
asthma attacks. Remove as many water and food sources as you can because
cockroaches need food and water to survive. Vacuum or sweep these areas at
least every 2-3 days. You can also use roach traps or gels to decrease the
number of cockroaches in your home.
Pets
Furry pets may trigger an attack. The simplest solution to this situation is
to find another home for the pet. However, some pet owners may be too
attached to their pets or unable to locate a safe new home for the animal.
Any animal causing an allergic reaction should not be allowed in the
bedroom. Pets should be kept outside as much as possible and bathed weekly.
People with asthma are not allergic to their pet's fur, so trimming the pet's
fur will not help your asthma. Frequent vacuuming will reduce the presence
of the allergen. If the room has a hard surface floor, it should be damp
mopped weekly.
Mold
When mold is inhaled, it can cause asthma attacks. Eliminating mold
throughout the home can help control asthma attacks. Keep humidity levels
between 35% and 50%. In hot, humid climates, this may require the use of air
conditioning and/or dehumidifiers. Fixing water leaks and cleaning up any
mold in the home can also help.
Other Triggers
Strenuous physical exercise; adverse weather conditions like freezing
temperatures, high humidity, and thunderstorms; and some foods and food
additives and drugs can trigger asthma episodes. Strong emotional states
also can lead to hyperventilation and an asthma episode. People with asthma
should learn if these things trigger their episodes and avoid them when
possible.

hayfever

http://www.medinfo.co.uk/conditions/hayfever.html

Causes
Different pollens are present at different times of year and thus the time
that you are affected depends on the pollen to which you are allergic. Other
factors which may aggravate the situation are the weather and the air
quality.

American Academy of Allergy, Asthma & Immunology Pollen & Mould Counts

chronic diarrhea

http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/935164966.html

NONE are psychosomatic

>
>> I saw many conventional doctors who
>> couldn't do a thing. An alternative doctor did something about it. Many
>> of his patients used to have acne, psoriasis, and many other problems
>> that were VISIBLE. Their problems are gone. They also have more energy,
>> and less pain.
>
> Is this "doctor" sharing his case histories with you? That would be
> illegal and unethical. In any case, that would be anectdotal evidence at
> best, and those "visible" disorders are the sort that often improve for no
> apparent reason.
>
>
>>
>> Many conventional doctors said years ago that chronic fatigue syndrome
>> did not exist. The Wall Street Journal reported recently that Chronic
>> Fatigue patients have been found to have certain genetic abnormalities.
>
> Ah, yes. That esteemed medical journal of Wall Street. Did WSJ say just
> who found these "genetic abnormalities" and where they were reported?
>
>
>> It looks like certain doctors got egg in their face.
>
>
>

> <snip Rich Shewmakers' sick making fun of serious illness>

Pathetic and despicable.
> --
>
>
> --Rich

[Wanderer]

Keep going on Shane! We are with you. We can not save all but at least
those who are alert can be made aware thro' this medium.

[Rich]

"LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote in message

news:6a9Ye.154291$084.2135@attbi_s22...

I never said that those diseases are primarily psychosomatic, just that they
all have psychosomatic components.

>
>
>>
>>> I saw many conventional doctors who
>>> couldn't do a thing. An alternative doctor did something about it. Many
>>> of his patients used to have acne, psoriasis, and many other problems
>>> that were VISIBLE. Their problems are gone. They also have more energy,
>>> and less pain.
>>
>> Is this "doctor" sharing his case histories with you? That would be
>> illegal and unethical. In any case, that would be anectdotal evidence at
>> best, and those "visible" disorders are the sort that often improve for
>> no apparent reason.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Many conventional doctors said years ago that chronic fatigue syndrome
>>> did not exist. The Wall Street Journal reported recently that Chronic
>>> Fatigue patients have been found to have certain genetic abnormalities.
>>
>> Ah, yes. That esteemed medical journal of Wall Street. Did WSJ say just
>> who found these "genetic abnormalities" and where they were reported?
>>
>>
>>> It looks like certain doctors got egg in their face.
>>
>>
>>
>> <snip Rich Shewmakers' sick making fun of serious illness>
>
> Pathetic and despicable.

Thus proving once again that you have no sense of humor and are incapable of
fun.

[LadyLollipop]

You have not the slightest idea of my sense of humor, in fact you couldn't
be more wrong.

Belittling serious illness is NOT funny.

"Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

news:EaiYe.6951$Cg....@tornado.socal.rr.com...

[Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com]

Rich wrote:

[From the audience]

They said the silver in our teeth
Was all some kind of ruse
To get the merc into our bodies
To make putty of our thews.
They said that we could do chelation
Till it ran from our wazoos---
And yet
We still would get,
We'd still have yet,
We'd never, ever, LOSE
That
Fibromyalgia multiple chemical sensitivity chronic fatigue syndrome
And possibly even Lipitor BLUES........

[montygram]

For the most part, doctors are like helpless children these days, and
the probably do more harm than good.

Fortunately, there is more than enough scientific evidence to date to
know what to do in ill health (and to maintain good health).

See http://www.efn.org/~raypeat/ for starters.

[Steven Bornfeld]

Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> They said the silver in our teeth
> Was all some kind of ruse
> To get the merc into our bodies
> To make putty of our thews.
> They said that we could do chelation
> Till it ran from our wazoos---
> And yet
> We still would get,
> We'd still have yet,
> We'd never, ever, LOSE
> That
> Fibromyalgia multiple chemical sensitivity chronic fatigue syndrome
> And possibly even Lipitor BLUES........

"thews"?

Steve

>

--
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Arial;}}
{\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove
"nospam" to reply\par
}

[Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com]

Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >
> > They said the silver in our teeth
> > Was all some kind of ruse
> > To get the merc into our bodies
> > To make putty of our thews.
> > They said that we could do chelation
> > Till it ran from our wazoos---
> > And yet
> > We still would get,
> > We'd still have yet,
> > We'd never, ever, LOSE
> > That
> > Fibromyalgia multiple chemical sensitivity chronic fatigue syndrome
> > And possibly even Lipitor BLUES........
>
> "thews"?
>
> Steve

A dentist with no dictionary
Is a thing you can't excuse
For what good an education
If just the trade is where it's used?
Then where would be the fun
In an all-orthodontist cruise--
And how the HECK would then we ever stop
This Thing that has us in its screws:
The amalgamated Gulf War fibromyalgia multiple chemical sensitivity
chronic fatigue syndrome and possibly fluoride and Lipitor-caused
BLUES........

SBH

[O'Hush]

"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <sbha...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:1127361217.3...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> > Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > >
> > > They said the silver in our teeth
> > > Was all some kind of ruse
> > > To get the merc into our bodies
> > > To make putty of our thews.
> > > They said that we could do chelation
> > > Till it ran from our wazoos---
> > > And yet
> > > We still would get,
> > > We'd still have yet,
> > > We'd never, ever, LOSE
> > > That
> > > Fibromyalgia multiple chemical sensitivity chronic fatigue syndrome
> > > And possibly even Lipitor BLUES........
> >
> > "thews"?
> >
> > Steve

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/thew
It was new to me too.

> A dentist with no dictionary
> Is a thing you can't excuse
> For what good an education
> If just the trade is where it's used?
> Then where would be the fun
> In an all-orthodontist cruise--
> And how the HECK would then we ever stop
> This Thing that has us in its screws:
> The amalgamated Gulf War fibromyalgia multiple chemical sensitivity
> chronic fatigue syndrome and possibly fluoride and Lipitor-caused
> BLUES........

Don't you have some dogs to experiment on? (Although a limerick would be
nice ;)

~~Patti

[LadyLollipop]

"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <sbha...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message

news:1127353985.8...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Rich wrote:

[From the audience]

Quite wrong.

*Organized medicine and dentistry called it silver, rather than *mercruy*

<snip rest from another atheist, MD who like to make fun of serious illness>

[LadyLollipop]

"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <sbha...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message

news:1127361217.3...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

FYI

This dentist is the ONLY one on the SMD who is a REAL GENTLEMAN and NOT A
JERK like the rest there.

YOU would do well to follow his example.

[Brad_Chad]

Rich wrote:
> "Brad_Chad" <Brad_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1127288326.2...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >

> > I had eczema, asthma, hayfever, and chronic diarrhea from hidden
> > food sensitivities for YEARS.
>
> It's interesting that those are all diseases that have psychosomatic
> components.

It is interesting that my "psychosomatic" illness would reappear
when I accidently ate foods with corn starch and forgot to read the
label. If somebody gave me bread made with corn starch, and I thought
it had wheat starch, my body would know. If somebody switched foods on
me, my body would know, even though you could not taste the difference.
Explain how my symptoms would appear and disappear when I didn't know
the food ingredients, Slick.

>
> > I saw many conventional doctors who
> > couldn't do a thing. An alternative doctor did something about it. Many
> > of his patients used to have acne, psoriasis, and many other problems
> > that were VISIBLE. Their problems are gone. They also have more energy,
> > and less pain.
>
> Is this "doctor" sharing his case histories with you? That would be illegal
> and unethical. In any case, that would be anectdotal evidence at best, and
> those "visible" disorders are the sort that often improve for no apparent
> reason.

It is illegal and unethical for me to talk with other patients
while I'm waiting at the doctor's office? Wow !!! It is funny that my
symptoms improved when I took corn out of my diet, and showed up when I
forgot to read food labels. When I felt pain in my joints, I would go
back and check the label for corn. It was always there. WOW.

>
>
> >
> > Many conventional doctors said years ago that chronic fatigue syndrome
> > did not exist. The Wall Street Journal reported recently that Chronic
> > Fatigue patients have been found to have certain genetic abnormalities.
>
> Ah, yes. That esteemed medical journal of Wall Street. Did WSJ say just who
> found these "genetic abnormalities" and where they were reported?

I don't remember all the details of the article. It was a few
months ago. You can archive it though.

>
>
> > It looks like certain doctors got egg in their face.
>
> Not yet.

They got egg in their face.
>
> Brad_Chad

[Brad_Chad]

When I was a kid I always got tired when I drank Coke soda. I would
feel stimulated when I drank coffee. Decades later, I found out about
hidden food sensitivities. I found out that I was sensitive to corn
(high fructose corn syrup). How could psychosomatic explain something
in my past before I heard about hidden food sensitivities. I drank a
Kosher for Passover Coke (cane sugar) a couple of years ago and I felt
stimulated. If I accidently mixed up the cane sugar Coke and the corn
syrup Coke, my body would know the difference (joint pain). Explain
that, Slick.

Brad_Chad

[Mark & Steven Bornfeld]

Rich.@. wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 02:37:29 GMT, Steven Bornfeld
> <dentaltw...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com wrote:
>>
>>>They said the silver in our teeth
>>>Was all some kind of ruse
>>>To get the merc into our bodies
>>>To make putty of our thews.
>>>They said that we could do chelation
>>>Till it ran from our wazoos---
>>>And yet
>>>We still would get,
>>>We'd still have yet,
>>>We'd never, ever, LOSE
>>>That
>>>Fibromyalgia multiple chemical sensitivity chronic fatigue syndrome
>>>And possibly even Lipitor BLUES........
>>
>>"thews"?
>
>

> Thews refers to well developed muscles.
>
> Aloha,
>
> Rich

Know the etymology?
Clearly, I haven't been to the gym in too long.

Steve
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> Best defense to logic is ignorance

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

[Mark & Steven Bornfeld]

Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com wrote:

Bravo!

Steve

[Mark & Steven Bornfeld]

LadyLollipop wrote:

Maybe I SHOULD get a new dictionary though. I thought it was some
gym-rat colloquialism.

[LadyLollipop]

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <bornfe...@dentaltwins.com> wrote in message
news:7EyYe.16433$Zg5.12147@trndny05...

I'll take you any day WITHOUT a dictionary, rather than the jerks who make
fun of serious illness, and I am disappointed in you for saying, Bravo.

*The amalgamated, Gulf War, fibromyalgia, multiple chemical sensitivity,
chronic fatigue syndrome*

Are ALL VERY painful serious conditions, NOT to be made fun of.

This ng, thinks LYING is A OK, they twist and turn what is said into racists
remarks.

Not that I think racist remarks are OK, but they put them up there, as if
they were the number one commandment.

But they think is is OK the make fun of those who SUFFER with these SERIOUS
REAL conditions.

[fresh~horses]

Hello Lady

Some thoughts on this;

Getting upset has to be marshalled. Small infringements sometimes have
to be let go in order to have the energy the larger, more useful
struggle.

Harris *is* talented and brilliant; and I think that's what another
poster responded to.

However so was Leni Reifenstahl.

Zee

[Rich]

"Brad_Chad" <Brad_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1127374097.7...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> Rich wrote:
>> "Brad_Chad" <Brad_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1127288326.2...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> > >
>> > I had eczema, asthma, hayfever, and chronic diarrhea from hidden
>> > food sensitivities for YEARS.
>>
>> It's interesting that those are all diseases that have psychosomatic
>> components.
>
> It is interesting that my "psychosomatic" illness would reappear
> when I accidently ate foods with corn starch and forgot to read the
> label. If somebody gave me bread made with corn starch, and I thought
> it had wheat starch, my body would know. If somebody switched foods on
> me, my body would know, even though you could not taste the difference.
> Explain how my symptoms would appear and disappear when I didn't know
> the food ingredients, Slick.

You only went looking for corn products when you had symptoms. It's quite
possible that you often consume corn products and do not have symptoms, and
are just not aware of it. Your anecdotes are not evidence of anything.

>>
>> > I saw many conventional doctors who
>> > couldn't do a thing. An alternative doctor did something about it. Many
>> > of his patients used to have acne, psoriasis, and many other problems
>> > that were VISIBLE. Their problems are gone. They also have more energy,
>> > and less pain.
>>
>> Is this "doctor" sharing his case histories with you? That would be
>> illegal
>> and unethical. In any case, that would be anectdotal evidence at best,
>> and
>> those "visible" disorders are the sort that often improve for no apparent
>> reason.
>
> It is illegal and unethical for me to talk with other patients
> while I'm waiting at the doctor's office? Wow !!! It is funny that my
> symptoms improved when I took corn out of my diet, and showed up when I
> forgot to read food labels. When I felt pain in my joints, I would go
> back and check the label for corn. It was always there. WOW.

See above.

>>
>>
>> >
>> > Many conventional doctors said years ago that chronic fatigue syndrome
>> > did not exist. The Wall Street Journal reported recently that Chronic
>> > Fatigue patients have been found to have certain genetic abnormalities.
>>
>> Ah, yes. That esteemed medical journal of Wall Street. Did WSJ say just
>> who
>> found these "genetic abnormalities" and where they were reported?
>
> I don't remember all the details of the article. It was a few
> months ago. You can archive it though.
>>
>>
>> > It looks like certain doctors got egg in their face.
>>
>> Not yet.
>
> They got egg in their face.

A news story is not sufficient to produce the "egg on the face" effect.
"Chronic fatigue" is a crock. As my own doctor once said, "If you're not
tired all the time, you're not working hard enough."

[Mark & Steven Bornfeld]

LadyLollipop wrote:

>
> I'll take you any day WITHOUT a dictionary, rather than the jerks who make
> fun of serious illness, and I am disappointed in you for saying, Bravo.
>
> *The amalgamated, Gulf War, fibromyalgia, multiple chemical sensitivity,
> chronic fatigue syndrome*
>
> Are ALL VERY painful serious conditions, NOT to be made fun of.
>
> This ng, thinks LYING is A OK, they twist and turn what is said into racists
> remarks.
>
> Not that I think racist remarks are OK, but they put them up there, as if
> they were the number one commandment.
>
> But they think is is OK the make fun of those who SUFFER with these SERIOUS
> REAL conditions.
>

While I thought it a clever bit of doggerel, I don't endorse making fun
of anyone, much less the ill.
I try to laugh WITH people, not at them.
In the interest of full disclosure, I should say that my daughter, for
whom I am a constant source of embarassment, would doubtless disagree
with my self-evaluation.

Best,
Steve

[Mark & Steven Bornfeld]

Rich wrote:
>
> A news story is not sufficient to produce the "egg on the face" effect.
> "Chronic fatigue" is a crock. As my own doctor once said, "If you're not
> tired all the time, you're not working hard enough."

That's pretty cold, Rich.

[LadyLollipop]

"fresh~horses" <fresh~hor...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:1127411101.4...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Has nothinf to do with any of the above.

>
> Harris *is* talented and brilliant; and I think that's what another
> poster responded to.

That is a matter of opinion

Harris was making fun of serious REAL SUFFERING, conditions.

IMHO, that is despicable.

[Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com]

Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:

> > FYI
> >
> > This dentist is the ONLY one on the SMD who is a REAL GENTLEMAN and NOT A
> > JERK like the rest there.
> >
> > YOU would do well to follow his example.
> >
> >
> >
> Maybe I SHOULD get a new dictionary though. I thought it was some
> gym-rat colloquialism.
>
> Steve

COMMENT:

It's actually becoming an anachronism, so you're forgiven. Edgar Rice
Burroughs fans wouldn't have missed it, though.

SBH

[Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com]

fresh~horses wrote:
> Harris *is* talented and brilliant; and I think that's what another
> poster responded to.
>
> However so was Leni Reifenstahl.
>
>
>
> Zee

And she liked scuba, too! But wasn't a vegetarian antivivisectionist,
like Hitler. Such a complicated world.

SBH

[Rich]

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <bornfe...@dentaltwins.com> wrote in message

news:DIDYe.11910$e_4.3806@trndny08...

> Rich wrote:
>>
>> A news story is not sufficient to produce the "egg on the face" effect.
>> "Chronic fatigue" is a crock. As my own doctor once said, "If you're not
>> tired all the time, you're not working hard enough."
>
> That's pretty cold, Rich.
>

Yes, it is, and as Lollipop points out, CFS is a "real" disease.
Unfortunately it is a somatization disorder that is best treated
psychiatrically, and only a tiny percentage of CFS patients are willing to
even consider that modality of treatment. So announcing to your doctor that
you have CFS is likely to make him feel frustrated up front.

[Mark & Steven Bornfeld]

Rich wrote:

> "Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <bornfe...@dentaltwins.com> wrote in message
> news:DIDYe.11910$e_4.3806@trndny08...
>
>>Rich wrote:
>>
>>>A news story is not sufficient to produce the "egg on the face" effect.
>>>"Chronic fatigue" is a crock. As my own doctor once said, "If you're not
>>>tired all the time, you're not working hard enough."
>>
>>That's pretty cold, Rich.
>>
>
>
> Yes, it is, and as Lollipop points out, CFS is a "real" disease.
> Unfortunately it is a somatization disorder that is best treated
> psychiatrically, and only a tiny percentage of CFS patients are willing to
> even consider that modality of treatment. So announcing to your doctor that
> you have CFS is likely to make him feel frustrated up front.

I'm more concerned about your doctor saying if you're not tired you're
not doing it right. Sounds like my old cycling coach.

[fresh~horses]

Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:

> LadyLollipop wrote:
>
> >
> > I'll take you any day WITHOUT a dictionary, rather than the jerks who make
> > fun of serious illness, and I am disappointed in you for saying, Bravo.
> >
> > *The amalgamated, Gulf War, fibromyalgia, multiple chemical sensitivity,
> > chronic fatigue syndrome*
> >
> > Are ALL VERY painful serious conditions, NOT to be made fun of.
> >
> > This ng, thinks LYING is A OK, they twist and turn what is said into racists
> > remarks.
> >
> > Not that I think racist remarks are OK, but they put them up there, as if
> > they were the number one commandment.
> >
> > But they think is is OK the make fun of those who SUFFER with these SERIOUS
> > REAL conditions.
> >
>
> While I thought it a clever bit of doggerel, I don't endorse making fun
> of anyone, much less the ill.
> I try to laugh WITH people, not at them.
> In the interest of full disclosure, I should say that my daughter, for
> whom I am a constant source of embarassment, would doubtless disagree
> with my self-evaluation.

<<lol>> Oh lord isn't it rough being a parent of a pre-teen to a ....
Scuze me when does this end? Just when mine got over being so
embarrassed (they're conservative would you believe it?) by my
advocacy, they started getting embarrassed by my ... social life...

[fresh~horses]

She did. And would have been a perfect fit for a dewar, having lived to
101.

[Rich]

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <bornfe...@dentaltwins.com> wrote in message

news:6LEYe.10866$i86.2581@trndny01...

Actually my doctor was joking.

[Robert]

"Brad_Chad" <Brad_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1127288326.2...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>

> Robert wrote:
> > "Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:QjbXe.306$EA4...@tornado.socal.rr.com...
> > >
> > > "Jan" <JanetMc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:dgj7qe$bob$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > > > Although I mostly believe the comments you have made I would value
> > > > references to the 'Science proves otherwise' statements.
> > > >
> > > > I think I have read that statistically more people are seeking the
help
> > of
> > > > alternative medicine, it would be interesting to learn why.
Certainly
> > > > through my experience, it is not hard to believe it could be due to
a
> > lack
> > > > of results and what appears (unbelievably) to be a lack of
understanding
> > > > of some conditions. This might suggest that some people suffering
from
> > the
> > > > various complaints would agree with the 'Science proves otherwise.'
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jan
> > >
> > > Ms. McDonald--
> > >
> > > This is the first post I have seen from you in this group. You should
be
> > > aware that there is another Jan here who posts more, and contributes
less,
> > > than anyone else. She has the paranoid belief that she is being
persecuted
> > > by a "*gang*" and wh's been known to stalk some of the people she
> > identifies
> > > as "*gang*" members. She calls any and all "liars", and is a proven
racist
> > > as well. To avoid being mistaken for her, or even being associated
with
> > her,
> > > you may want to change your handle, even though Jan Drew calls herself
> > "Lady
> > > Lollipop" most of the time.
> > >
> > > That said, let me state that I disagree with your comment. It's my
> > > experience that many people, in a spirit of New Age rebellion against
the
> > > "establishment" do seek out "alternative" practitioners for their
everyday
> > > healthcare needs. And those practitioners serve them well for all the
> > > self-limiting aches and pains and minor illnesses. But when they get
> > really
> > > ill, they invariably revert to fact-based medical care. Yes it does
happen
> > > the other way around, too, as you describe. But that scenario is
commonest
> > > with patients with somatization disorders, who are dissatisfied with
their
> > > doctor's refusal to assign a physiological cause to their discomforts,
and
> > > interpret the encounter as "lack of results and what appears to be a
lack
> > of
> > > understanding". Persons with terminal conditions also often turn to
> > > alternative medicine methods, but unless an alternative quack
convinces
> > them
> > > otherwise, they usually stay with their doctor's plan of treatment as
> > well.
> > >
> > > Welcome to the group, Jan. Your input is most welcome.
> > >
> > > --Rich
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I agree with all of that. There is a place for alternative medicine.
There
> > are too many people filling our ER with minor ailments that have
> > psychological components. These are prime candidates for alternative
people
> > who claim to have a disease in which doctors are unable to diagnose and
> > conditions that are stealth to the medical doctors.
> > Some how even the homeless have figured out who provides health care
needs
> > when they need them. I think we should send them to health food stores
and
> > they should get everything they need for free and let the owners of the
> > store pay for it all.

>
> I had eczema, asthma, hayfever, and chronic diarrhea from hidden

> food sensitivities for YEARS. I saw many conventional doctors who

> couldn't do a thing. An alternative doctor did something about it. Many
> of his patients used to have acne, psoriasis, and many other problems
> that were VISIBLE. Their problems are gone. They also have more energy,
> and less pain.

Have the health food stores give them free vitamins and minerals and have
the alternative doctors treat them for free.

>
> Many conventional doctors said years ago that chronic fatigue syndrome
> did not exist. The Wall Street Journal reported recently that Chronic
> Fatigue patients have been found to have certain genetic abnormalities.

> It looks like certain doctors got egg in their face.
>

> Brad_Chad
>

Alternative doctors don't care about genetic abnormalities that's not the
way they work. I am sure they were all cured of CFS based on their gut
instincts and not genetic abnormalities.
CFS is perfect for them and let them be flooded with patients.
This is the place where the alternatives can shine and they instead have egg
on your faces.
Now you are finding your way back to conventional medicine and screaming to
them that genetic abnormalities exist and please help me because
alternatives suck.
I hear you man.

[Rich]

"LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:6a9Ye.154291$084.2135@attbi_s22...
>
>>
>> <snip Rich Shewmakers' sick making fun of serious illness>
>
> Pathetic and despicable.

Once again, Lollipoop, you are demonstrating your reading comprehension
disorder. I am not making fun of illness. I'm making fun of the altie quacks
to claim to be able to treat those diseases. The theme of the song is that
after seeking help from all those sources, the bluesman still has the
fibromyalgia, multiple chemical sensitivity, chronic fatigue syndrome blues.
Those diseases are difficult to treat, even when approached properly as
psychiatric disorders. Alternative medicine is unable to help them at all.

[Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com]

LadyLollipop wrote:

>Harris was making fun of serious REAL SUFFERING, conditions.

COMMENT:
Actually Harris was only making fun of people who have real suffering
conditions AND are intent on making the world suffer along with them.
These are the people whose car won't start in the morning, or whose
paper doesn't arrive on the doorstep in perfect dry order, and who
therefore are determined that the world is going to be Living Hell for
all who come into contact with them, for the rest of the day.

Some of the type of people above, have medical conditions. Though it's
always rather difficult to tell how much they suffer from these
conditions, because of the sort of people they are (which in turn you
can tell by how they react to all the OTHER ordinary stressors in their
lives--- the same ones we all deal with). Some of these people also
believe they've been gang-probed by aliens and still carry the devices
from same, so again it's difficult to take some (not all) of them
literally.

On the other hand, we have the Renoirs of the world, so badly crippled
with arthritis they can't use the toilet by themselves, but still
painting to the end, with brushes tied to their wrists.

We have the Christopher Reeves's, paralyzed from C2 down, but never
saying word one about somebody needing to be blamed for screwing up the
complex world of horse riding safety.

We have Stephen Hawking, not able to move much, but still thinking
about quantum gravity and not jerking our chains about his divorce
issues, or what environmental chemicals might have got him into his
wheelchair.

And then we have the Others. Not Renoirs. Not Reeves's. Not Hawkings.
But bent on finding somebody to blame. Having decided in all paranoia
that the world is engaged in a vast conspiracy to screw up their lives.

Why do I make fun of such stuff? Because very often in my job I get to
see real courage and well-directed outrage, in action. And some of it
is from people who really are dying in horrible ways. And people in
wheelchairs whose entire skin really IS coming off. Not just obnoxious
people in wheelchairs who ACT like their skin is coming off, except it
looks just fine to me. Yet who, despite their longevity and lack of
detectable lesions are so angry at me, and the world, and themselves,
that I really have a very hard time giving a damn about their pain. We
all have pain.

It's a triage situation out there in the world. There are enough people
out there with problems that I KNOW are genuine. And who are getting
along, nevertheless, directed toward some reasonably positive goal.
These people contribute. I help them whenever they get to the point
that they're interested in helping themselves, and are able to think
about something besides witch-finding and simple hatred. And as for the
rest, well, I wish you-all would STFU, because you're annoying. And if
you can't, I wish you would go somewhere else. We're busy here.

SBH

[Mark & Steven Bornfeld]

fresh~horses wrote:

>
> <<lol>> Oh lord isn't it rough being a parent of a pre-teen to a ....
> Scuze me when does this end? Just when mine got over being so
> embarrassed (they're conservative would you believe it?) by my
> advocacy, they started getting embarrassed by my ... social life...

Just now dismissed a patient whose daughter is in grad school (daughter
had been a patient of mine since she was 5). I compared notes with this
woman about how we enjoyed embarassing our kids. Any singing I do in
public--she's just mortified--I love it. Sometimes I'll walk her to the
car to take her to school doing the old Monty Python Ministry of Funny
Walks thing. I want to make sure she has plenty to talk about in therapy.
I doubt she's going to go right wing on me though--not coming out of
THAT school.

Steve

[LadyLollipop]

"Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

news:kgDYe.392$fD3...@tornado.socal.rr.com...

>
> "Brad_Chad" <Brad_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1127374097.7...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Rich wrote:
>>> "Brad_Chad" <Brad_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1127288326.2...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>>> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >> > >
>>> > I had eczema, asthma, hayfever, and chronic diarrhea from hidden
>>> > food sensitivities for YEARS.
>>>
>>> It's interesting that those are all diseases that have psychosomatic
>>> components.
>>
>> It is interesting that my "psychosomatic" illness would reappear
>> when I accidently ate foods with corn starch and forgot to read the
>> label. If somebody gave me bread made with corn starch, and I thought
>> it had wheat starch, my body would know. If somebody switched foods on
>> me, my body would know, even though you could not taste the difference.
>> Explain how my symptoms would appear and disappear when I didn't know
>> the food ingredients, Slick.
>
> You only went looking for corn products when you had symptoms. It's quite
> possible that you often consume corn products and do not have symptoms,
> and are just not aware of it. Your anecdotes are not evidence of anything.

YOUR twisting of what he said is evidence of DISHONESTY.

>
>
>
>>>
>>> > I saw many conventional doctors who
>>> > couldn't do a thing. An alternative doctor did something about it.
>>> > Many
>>> > of his patients used to have acne, psoriasis, and many other problems
>>> > that were VISIBLE. Their problems are gone. They also have more
>>> > energy,
>>> > and less pain.
>>>
>>> Is this "doctor" sharing his case histories with you? That would be
>>> illegal
>>> and unethical. In any case, that would be anectdotal evidence at best,
>>> and
>>> those "visible" disorders are the sort that often improve for no
>>> apparent
>>> reason.
>>
>> It is illegal and unethical for me to talk with other patients
>> while I'm waiting at the doctor's office? Wow !!! It is funny that my
>> symptoms improved when I took corn out of my diet, and showed up when I
>> forgot to read food labels. When I felt pain in my joints, I would go
>> back and check the label for corn. It was always there. WOW.
>
> See above.

We did!

It is illegal and unethical for me to talk with other patients
>> while I'm waiting at the doctor's office? Wow !!! It is funny that my
>> symptoms improved when I took corn out of my diet, and showed up when I
>> forgot to read food labels. When I felt pain in my joints, I would go
>> back and check the label for corn. It was always there. WOW.

>
>>>
>>>
>>> >

>>> > Many conventional doctors said years ago that chronic fatigue syndrome
>>> > did not exist. The Wall Street Journal reported recently that Chronic
>>> > Fatigue patients have been found to have certain genetic
>>> > abnormalities.
>>>
>>> Ah, yes. That esteemed medical journal of Wall Street. Did WSJ say just
>>> who
>>> found these "genetic abnormalities" and where they were reported?
>>
>> I don't remember all the details of the article. It was a few
>> months ago. You can archive it though.
>>>
>>>
>>> > It looks like certain doctors got egg in their face.
>>>
>>> Not yet.
>>
>> They got egg in their face.
>
> A news story is not sufficient to produce the "egg on the face" effect.
> "Chronic fatigue" is a crock.

Chronic fatigue is VERY REAL, affecting close to one million people.

http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/news/newsreleases/1999/cfsrsch.htm

http://chronicfatigue.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.cfids.org

http://chronicfatigue.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.cfids.org

Chronic fatigue and immune dysfunction syndrome (CFIDS), also known as
chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME) and by other
names, is a complex and debilitating chronic illness that affects the brain
and multiple body systems. On this portion of our website you can find
detailed information about CFIDS, its symptoms, diagnosis, treatment,
important research findings and how it affects the lives of those who live
with it everyday.

Proving, Rich Shewmaker is a liar, and it is even more despicable that he is
a nurse.

HE is an example of WHY, people are turning to alternative medicine.

[LadyLollipop]

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <bornfe...@dentaltwins.com> wrote in message

news:LGDYe.11909$e_4.7162@trndny08...

> LadyLollipop wrote:
>
>>
>> I'll take you any day WITHOUT a dictionary, rather than the jerks who
>> make fun of serious illness, and I am disappointed in you for saying,
>> Bravo.
>>
>> *The amalgamated, Gulf War, fibromyalgia, multiple chemical sensitivity,
>> chronic fatigue syndrome*
>>
>> Are ALL VERY painful serious conditions, NOT to be made fun of.
>>
>> This ng, thinks LYING is A OK, they twist and turn what is said into
>> racists remarks.
>>
>> Not that I think racist remarks are OK, but they put them up there, as if
>> they were the number one commandment.
>>
>> But they think is is OK the make fun of those who SUFFER with these
>> SERIOUS REAL conditions.
>>
>
> While I thought it a clever bit of doggerel, I don't endorse making fun of
> anyone, much less the ill.
> I try to laugh WITH people, not at them.
> In the interest of full disclosure, I should say that my daughter, for
> whom I am a constant source of embarassment, would doubtless disagree with
> my self-evaluation.
>
> Best,
> Steve

Good for her!!!

YOU raised her right!

Best, right backatcha,

Jan

[LadyLollipop]

"fresh~horses" <fresh~hor...@despammed.com> wrote in message

news:1127422434.3...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

It gets worse, my daughter now says, she never gets her parents raised!

Plus, I have part timers.

[LadyLollipop]

"Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

news:4EEYe.398$fD3...@tornado.socal.rr.com...

>
> "Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <bornfe...@dentaltwins.com> wrote in message
> news:DIDYe.11910$e_4.3806@trndny08...
>> Rich wrote:
>>>
>>> A news story is not sufficient to produce the "egg on the face" effect.
>>> "Chronic fatigue" is a crock. As my own doctor once said, "If you're not
>>> tired all the time, you're not working hard enough."
>>
>> That's pretty cold, Rich.
>>
>
> Yes, it is, and as Lollipop points out, CFS is a "real" disease.
> Unfortunately it is a somatization disorder that is best treated
> psychiatrically, and only a tiny percentage of CFS patients are willing to
> even consider that modality of treatment. So announcing to your doctor
> that you have CFS is likely to make him feel frustrated up front.

That's a whopper of a lie, which I just proved in another post.

Medical Lies and Why one abands *organized medicine*

http://tinyurl.com/dztqw

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/05/12/ED48765.DTL

New Research Debunks Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Myth

You need to get updated, Rich.

The Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: A Comprehensive Approach to its Definition and
Study
Keiji Fukuda, M.D., M.P.H., Stephen E. Straus, M.D., Ian Hickie, M.D.,
F.R.A.N.Z.C.P., Michael C. Sharpe, M.R.C.P., M.R.C. Psych., James G.
Dobbins, Ph.D., Anthony L. Komaroff, M.D., F.A.C.P. and the International
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Study Group

From the Division of Viral and Rickettsial Diseases, National Center for
Infectious Diseases, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta,
Georgia; Laboratory of Clinical Investigation and Division of Microbiology
and Infectious Diseases, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious
Diseases, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland; School of
Psychiatry, Prince Henry Hospital, University of New South Wales, Sydney,
Australia; University of Oxford Department of Psychiatry, Warneford
Hospital, Oxford, United Kingdom; and Division of General Medicine, Brigham
and Women's Hospital, Harvard University, Boston, Massachusetts. Abstract.

The complexities of the chronic fatigue syndrome and the methodologic
problems associated with its study indicate the need for a comprehensive,
systematic, and integrated approach to the evaluation, classification, and
study of persons with this condition and other fatiguing illnesses. We
propose a conceptual framework and a set of guidelines that provide such an
approach. Our guidelines include recommendations for the clinical evaluation
of fatigued persons, a revised case definition of the chronic fatigue
syndrome, and a strategy for subgrouping fatigued persons in formal
investigations. We have developed a conceptual framework and a set of
research guidelines to use in studies of the chronic fatigue syndrome. The
guidelines cover the clinical and laboratory evaluation of persons with
unexplained fatigue; the identification of underlying conditions that may
explain the presence of chronic fatigue; revised criteria for defining cases
of the chronic fatigue syndrome; and a strategy for subdividing the chronic
fatigue syndrome and other unexplained cases of chronic fatigue into
subgroups.

The rest is @

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/cfs/about/definition/case_definition.htm
>
>
> --Rich

<snip proven lying websites>

[LadyLollipop]

"Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

news:VxFYe.403$fD3...@tornado.socal.rr.com...

>
> "LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
> news:6a9Ye.154291$084.2135@attbi_s22...
>>
>>>
>>> <snip Rich Shewmakers' sick making fun of serious illness>
>>
>> Pathetic and despicable.
>
> Once again, Lollipoop,

Once again, you are belittling and childish.

<snip usual insulting>

. I am not making fun of illness.

Indeed you were.

I'm making fun of the altie quacks to claim to be able to treat those
diseases.

You don't believe in alternative medicine, we all know that. You lies are
well known.

Such as:

Definition: Alternative medicine is the use of unproven methods to diagnose
and treat disease by persons who are unqualified to diagnose and treat
disease.

The theme of the song is that after seeking help from all those sources,
the bluesman still has the
> fibromyalgia, multiple chemical sensitivity, chronic fatigue syndrome
> blues. Those diseases are difficult to treat, even when approached
> properly as psychiatric disorders.

They are NOT psychiatric disorders.

fibromyalgia, multiple chemical sensitivity, chronic fatigue syndrome

Are ALL

VERY REAL PAINFUL SERIOUS CONDITIONS.

Your making fun of them, is D E S P I C A B LE!!!!!!!

Medical LIES, and YOU are an EXCELLENT example of WHY people are abanding
convention medicine.

> --
>
>
> --Rich

You also are a REPEATED LIAR

[LadyLollipop]

"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <sbha...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message

news:1127425607.3...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> LadyLollipop wrote:
>
>>Harris was making fun of serious REAL SUFFERING, conditions.
>
>
> COMMENT:
> Actually Harris was only making fun of people who have real suffering
> conditions

That is D E S P IC A B L E!!!!!

AND are intent on making the world suffer along with them.
> These are the people whose car won't start in the morning, or whose
> paper doesn't arrive on the doorstep in perfect dry order, and who
> therefore are determined that the world is going to be Living Hell for
> all who come into contact with them, for the rest of the day.

<snip stupidity, it all in their head blah, blah, blah,

Perhaps you need to live with one who has one of these REAL CONDITIONS, like
mercury poisoning, begging God to let them die.

You have NOT a clue, NOR any compassion, your *organized medicine* training
is showing, along with your disconnection from God.

YOU are the one who needs to go elsewhere, IMHO.

You are just one more excellent example, of medical LIES and WHY people are
abandoning medicine.

If a patient has a REAL DISEASE, that YOU deny, you will tell them
to,,,,,,,,,,,STFU

[cathyb]

LadyLollipop wrote:
> "Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:4EEYe.398$fD3...@tornado.socal.rr.com...
> >
> > "Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <bornfe...@dentaltwins.com> wrote in message
> > news:DIDYe.11910$e_4.3806@trndny08...
> >> Rich wrote:
> >>>
> >>> A news story is not sufficient to produce the "egg on the face" effect.
> >>> "Chronic fatigue" is a crock. As my own doctor once said, "If you're not
> >>> tired all the time, you're not working hard enough."
> >>
> >> That's pretty cold, Rich.
> >>
> >
> > Yes, it is, and as Lollipop points out, CFS is a "real" disease.
> > Unfortunately it is a somatization disorder that is best treated
> > psychiatrically, and only a tiny percentage of CFS patients are willing to
> > even consider that modality of treatment. So announcing to your doctor
> > that you have CFS is likely to make him feel frustrated up front.
>
> That's a whopper of a lie, which I just proved in another post.

Then why did she post "The Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: A Comprehensive
Approach to its Definition and Study", which basically says Rich is
right? Has she failed to read something she posted (again), or failed
to understand it?

>
> Medical Lies and Why one abands *organized medicine*
>
> http://tinyurl.com/dztqw
>
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/05/12/ED48765.DTL
>
> New Research Debunks Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Myth
>
> You need to get updated, Rich.

With something from 1994?

[Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com]

O'Hush wrote:
> "Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <sbha...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message

> news:1127361217.3...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> > > Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > They said the silver in our teeth
> > > > Was all some kind of ruse
> > > > To get the merc into our bodies
> > > > To make putty of our thews.
> > > > They said that we could do chelation
> > > > Till it ran from our wazoos---
> > > > And yet
> > > > We still would get,
> > > > We'd still have yet,
> > > > We'd never, ever, LOSE
> > > > That
> > > > Fibromyalgia multiple chemical sensitivity chronic fatigue syndrome
> > > > And possibly even Lipitor BLUES........
> > >
> > > "thews"?
> > >
> > > Steve
>

> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/thew
> It was new to me too.

>
> > A dentist with no dictionary
> > Is a thing you can't excuse
> > For what good an education
> > If just the trade is where it's used?
> > Then where would be the fun
> > In an all-orthodontist cruise--
> > And how the HECK would then we ever stop
> > This Thing that has us in its screws:
> > The amalgamated Gulf War fibromyalgia multiple chemical sensitivity
> > chronic fatigue syndrome and possibly fluoride and Lipitor-caused
> > BLUES........
>

> Don't you have some dogs to experiment on? (Although a limerick would be
> nice ;)
>
> ~~Patti

The bathroom of Patti O'Hush
Was a terrible stink and a mush
And she posted mad cables
That life came without labels
As to which stuff to keep or to flush

[Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com]

There should be some kind of Godwin's law for cryonics.

[R. Steve Walz]

Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>
> Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >

> > They said the silver in our teeth
> > Was all some kind of ruse
> > To get the merc into our bodies
> > To make putty of our thews.
> > They said that we could do chelation
> > Till it ran from our wazoos---
> > And yet
> > We still would get,
> > We'd still have yet,
> > We'd never, ever, LOSE
> > That
> > Fibromyalgia multiple chemical sensitivity chronic fatigue syndrome
> > And possibly even Lipitor BLUES........
>
> "thews"?
>
> Steve

---------------
Old word for "timbers", i.e., bones.
Steve

[Brad_Chad]

Rich wrote:
> "Brad_Chad" <Brad_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1127374097.7...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Rich wrote:
> >> "Brad_Chad" <Brad_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1127288326.2...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> > >
> >> > > >

> > It is interesting that my "psychosomatic" illness would reappear
> > when I accidently ate foods with corn starch and forgot to read the
> > label. If somebody gave me bread made with corn starch, and I thought
> > it had wheat starch, my body would know. If somebody switched foods on
> > me, my body would know, even though you could not taste the difference.
> > Explain how my symptoms would appear and disappear when I didn't know
> > the food ingredients, Slick.
>
> You only went looking for corn products when you had symptoms. It's quite
> possible that you often consume corn products and do not have symptoms, and
> are just not aware of it. Your anecdotes are not evidence of anything.

I tried to always check the ingredients in my food. Once in a blue
moon I would forget. I realized that I forgot when the pain occurred.
You really need to learn how to read better, Rich.

>
>
>
> >>
> >> > I saw many conventional doctors who
> >> > couldn't do a thing. An alternative doctor did something about it. Many
> >> > of his patients used to have acne, psoriasis, and many other problems
> >> > that were VISIBLE. Their problems are gone. They also have more energy,
> >> > and less pain.
> >>
> >> Is this "doctor" sharing his case histories with you? That would be
> >> illegal
> >> and unethical. In any case, that would be anectdotal evidence at best,
> >> and
> >> those "visible" disorders are the sort that often improve for no apparent
> >> reason.
> >
> > It is illegal and unethical for me to talk with other patients
> > while I'm waiting at the doctor's office? Wow !!! It is funny that my
> > symptoms improved when I took corn out of my diet, and showed up when I
> > forgot to read food labels. When I felt pain in my joints, I would go
> > back and check the label for corn. It was always there. WOW.
>
> See above.

There is one thing your mind can't comprehend Rich. Just because
something is anectdotal doesn't mean that it's not true. Some people
say that the lung cancer and smoking connection is anectdotal. I had
the "visible" disorders for years. Why didn't the placebo effect work
for me with conventional medicine?

>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Many conventional doctors said years ago that chronic fatigue syndrome
> >> > did not exist. The Wall Street Journal reported recently that Chronic
> >> > Fatigue patients have been found to have certain genetic abnormalities.
> >>
> >> Ah, yes. That esteemed medical journal of Wall Street. Did WSJ say just
> >> who
> >> found these "genetic abnormalities" and where they were reported?
> >
> > I don't remember all the details of the article. It was a few
> > months ago. You can archive it though.
> >>
> >>
> >> > It looks like certain doctors got egg in their face.
> >>
> >> Not yet.
> >
> > They got egg in their face.
>

> A news story is not sufficient to produce the "egg on the face" effect.
> "Chronic fatigue" is a crock. As my own doctor once said, "If you're not
> tired all the time, you're not working hard enough."

This is sufficient because if it didn't exist, Why does this group
have a certain genetic abnormality?

Brad_Chad
> --
>
>
> --

[Brad_Chad]

[cathyb]

If that's the case, they are utterly wrong, since there are endless
studies showing the connection between lung cancer and smoking.

This does not prove that where the evidence is only anecdotal, that it
is valid.

> I had
> the "visible" disorders for years. Why didn't the placebo effect work
> for me with conventional medicine?

You'd have to have words with your id about that.

Cathy

[Rich]

"LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote in message

news:vsJYe.157242$084.148293@attbi_s22...

>
> "Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:VxFYe.403$fD3...@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>>
>> "LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>> news:6a9Ye.154291$084.2135@attbi_s22...

>

> They are NOT psychiatric disorders.
>
> fibromyalgia, multiple chemical sensitivity, chronic fatigue syndrome
>
> Are ALL
>
> VERY REAL PAINFUL SERIOUS CONDITIONS.

I never said they aren't real.

>
> Your making fun of them, is D E S P I C A B LE!!!!!!!
>
> Medical LIES, and YOU are an EXCELLENT example of WHY people are abanding
> convention medicine.
>

"Abanding convention medicine?" As my blues song demonstrates, people with
somatic disorders abandon one alternative medicine modality after another as
they each fail to provide relief from their suffering. There is no
alternative medicine cure for the fibromyalgia, multiple chemical
sensitivity, chronic fatigue syndrome blues. That is no lie.

[Rich]

"LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote in message

news:vJJYe.157295$084.121878@attbi_s22...

>
> "Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <sbha...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:1127425607.3...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> LadyLollipop wrote:
>>
>>>Harris was making fun of serious REAL SUFFERING, conditions.
>>
>>
>> COMMENT:
>> Actually Harris was only making fun of people who have real suffering
>> conditions
>
> That is D E S P IC A B L E!!!!!
>
>
> AND are intent on making the world suffer along with them.
>> These are the people whose car won't start in the morning, or whose
>> paper doesn't arrive on the doorstep in perfect dry order, and who
>> therefore are determined that the world is going to be Living Hell for
>> all who come into contact with them, for the rest of the day.
>
> <snip stupidity, it all in their head blah, blah, blah,

He never said "all in their head." Pointing out that some people inflict
their whining about aches and pains on everyone around them, while others
bear their suffering and continue to be vital and productive is not
stupidity.

Of course mercury poisoning is a real condition. Who's ever said otherwise?

>
> You have NOT a clue, NOR any compassion, your *organized medicine*
> training is showing, along with your disconnection from God.

There is no organization that oversees the education of all doctors. There
are lots of organizations called medical schools, but the overall conspiracy
that you imagine and incessantly refer to simply does not exist.

>
> YOU are the one who needs to go elsewhere, IMHO.
>
> You are just one more excellent example, of medical LIES and WHY people
> are abandoning medicine.

What lie is Steve telling? That he takes care of patients who are a pain in
the ass? I suspect that's quite true.

[LadyLollipop]

They are NOT psychiatric disorders.

They are NOT somatic disorders

"Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

news:GPNYe.3$55...@tornado.socal.rr.com...

>
> "LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
> news:vsJYe.157242$084.148293@attbi_s22...
>>
>> "Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:VxFYe.403$fD3...@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>>>
>>> "LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>>> news:6a9Ye.154291$084.2135@attbi_s22...
>
>>
>> They are NOT psychiatric disorders.
>>
>> fibromyalgia, multiple chemical sensitivity, chronic fatigue syndrome
>>
>> Are ALL
>>
>> VERY REAL PAINFUL SERIOUS CONDITIONS.
>
> I never said they aren't real.

I KNOW what you said.

[Rich]

"LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote in message

news:TpIYe.396863$xm3.257011@attbi_s21...

>
> "Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:kgDYe.392$fD3...@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>>
>> "Brad_Chad" <Brad_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1127374097.7...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> Rich wrote:
>>>> "Brad_Chad" <Brad_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1127288326.2...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>>>> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > >
>>>> > I had eczema, asthma, hayfever, and chronic diarrhea from hidden
>>>> > food sensitivities for YEARS.
>>>>
>>>> It's interesting that those are all diseases that have psychosomatic
>>>> components.
>>>
>>> It is interesting that my "psychosomatic" illness would reappear
>>> when I accidently ate foods with corn starch and forgot to read the
>>> label. If somebody gave me bread made with corn starch, and I thought
>>> it had wheat starch, my body would know. If somebody switched foods on
>>> me, my body would know, even though you could not taste the difference.
>>> Explain how my symptoms would appear and disappear when I didn't know
>>> the food ingredients, Slick.
>>
>> You only went looking for corn products when you had symptoms. It's quite
>> possible that you often consume corn products and do not have symptoms,
>> and are just not aware of it. Your anecdotes are not evidence of
>> anything.
>
> YOUR twisting of what he said is evidence of DISHONESTY.

I'm neither "twisting" nor dishonest. I'm merely pointing out one of the
biggest problems of using self-report as evidence. I didn't invent this
notion; it's common knowledge. In fact it's the reason that science has such
strict rules for designing experiments. It's easy to fool ourselves.

It proves no such thing. I've never said that CFS is not a real disease. You
seem to equate "psychiatric" and "psychosomatic" with "fake" or "imaginary".
Nothing could be further from the truth.

It's despicable that I'm a nurse? In what way? Actually I'm a pretty good
one. If you end up in an emergency room, you want someone just like me
taking care of you.

>
> HE is an example of WHY, people are turning to alternative medicine.

I doubt that ANYBODY has ever "turned to alternative medicine" because of
treatment they got from me. You're full of it, Jan.

[Rich]

"Brad_Chad" <Brad_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1127457972.5...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

>
> Rich wrote:
>> "Brad_Chad" <Brad_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1127374097.7...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > Rich wrote:
>> >> "Brad_Chad" <Brad_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:1127288326.2...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > >
>> >> > > >
>> > It is interesting that my "psychosomatic" illness would reappear
>> > when I accidently ate foods with corn starch and forgot to read the
>> > label. If somebody gave me bread made with corn starch, and I thought
>> > it had wheat starch, my body would know. If somebody switched foods on
>> > me, my body would know, even though you could not taste the difference.
>> > Explain how my symptoms would appear and disappear when I didn't know
>> > the food ingredients, Slick.
>>
>> You only went looking for corn products when you had symptoms. It's quite
>> possible that you often consume corn products and do not have symptoms,
>> and
>> are just not aware of it. Your anecdotes are not evidence of anything.
>
> I tried to always check the ingredients in my food. Once in a blue
> moon I would forget. I realized that I forgot when the pain occurred.
> You really need to learn how to read better, Rich.

I'm not saying that it is impossible that corn is responsible for your
symptoms. But I doubt it. The only way to be sure would be medically
supervised BLIND challenges. Note that your symptoms are NOT indicative of
allergic response. Allergy is a histamine response to antigens, and those
responses include inflammation, discharge from, and swelling of mucous
membranes, skin reddening and macular rash, and (rarely) bronchospasm. Joint
pain and fatigue are not allergic in origin.

>> >>
>> >> > I saw many conventional doctors who
>> >> > couldn't do a thing. An alternative doctor did something about it.
>> >> > Many
>> >> > of his patients used to have acne, psoriasis, and many other
>> >> > problems
>> >> > that were VISIBLE. Their problems are gone. They also have more
>> >> > energy,
>> >> > and less pain.
>> >>
>> >> Is this "doctor" sharing his case histories with you? That would be
>> >> illegal
>> >> and unethical. In any case, that would be anectdotal evidence at best,
>> >> and
>> >> those "visible" disorders are the sort that often improve for no
>> >> apparent
>> >> reason.
>> >
>> > It is illegal and unethical for me to talk with other patients
>> > while I'm waiting at the doctor's office? Wow !!! It is funny that my
>> > symptoms improved when I took corn out of my diet, and showed up when I
>> > forgot to read food labels. When I felt pain in my joints, I would go
>> > back and check the label for corn. It was always there. WOW.
>>
>> See above.
>
> There is one thing your mind can't comprehend Rich. Just because
> something is anectdotal doesn't mean that it's not true. Some people
> say that the lung cancer and smoking connection is anectdotal.

Anecdotal evidence is evidence, but it is very weak, and is never sufficient
to produce definitive conclusions. The link between lung cancer and smoking
was strong STATISTICAL evidence, and even better evidence was produced by
research from the start.

> I had
> the "visible" disorders for years. Why didn't the placebo effect work
> for me with conventional medicine?

Perhaps because you didn't believe in it?

>> >> >
>> >> > Many conventional doctors said years ago that chronic fatigue
>> >> > syndrome
>> >> > did not exist. The Wall Street Journal reported recently that
>> >> > Chronic
>> >> > Fatigue patients have been found to have certain genetic
>> >> > abnormalities.
>> >>
>> >> Ah, yes. That esteemed medical journal of Wall Street. Did WSJ say
>> >> just
>> >> who
>> >> found these "genetic abnormalities" and where they were reported?
>> >
>> > I don't remember all the details of the article. It was a few
>> > months ago. You can archive it though.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > It looks like certain doctors got egg in their face.
>> >>
>> >> Not yet.
>> >
>> > They got egg in their face.
>>
>> A news story is not sufficient to produce the "egg on the face" effect.
>> "Chronic fatigue" is a crock. As my own doctor once said, "If you're not
>> tired all the time, you're not working hard enough."
>
> This is sufficient because if it didn't exist, Why does this group
> have a certain genetic abnormality?

I'm not convinced that the research exists. I can't find it.
--

--Rich

[Rich]

"LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote in message

news:o9OYe.158195$084.27582@attbi_s22...

> They are NOT psychiatric disorders.
>
> They are NOT somatic disorders

Denial of the psychological origin of somatic disorders is one of their
characteristic symptoms. It's typical of somatically hypervigilant patients
to bounce from doctor to doctor seeking one who will confirm their
insistence that their disease is physiological in origin. Often they resort
to "alternative" practitioners who are willing to buy into their fantasies,
but in the end cannot provide effective treatment, either.

[Brad_Chad]

Conventional medicine does a lot of harm by doing nothing. I have a
parasite throughout my body that is causing me a lot of problems. My
conventional doctors couldn't give me a decent explanation as to why
garlic seemed to help my condition. I have had this problem for at
least 2 years. My alternative doctor could explain why garlic worked.
My conventional doctors gave me medicine that made things worse. My
alternative doctors gave me medicine that made things better. This
happened numerous times. T

Conventional medicine knows a lot of things, but it is no comparison to
what they still don't know. Why do you think there is so much research?
Unfortunately, many people don't want to fund proper research on hidden
food sensitivities because they are afraid of the economic shock it
might cause the food and drug industries. I don't understand how so
many people can be so self-righteous when they talk about the "placebo"
effect considering how much science still doesn't know about a lot of
things. Conventional medicine must be pretty amoral to keep this
controversy from the public at large. Placebo or not, the symptoms are
gone in many cases and people feel better (plus it is safe). This is
why people go to alternative doctors. They do something for many people
while conventional doctors stand around and scratch their heads.

Brad_Chad

[Rich]

"Brad_Chad" <Brad_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1127463052.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

That is the classic lament of the Briquet's syndrome patient. It should be
quoted in the DSM IV.

[LadyLollipop]

"Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

news:GDOYe.11$556...@tornado.socal.rr.com...

>
> "LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
> news:o9OYe.158195$084.27582@attbi_s22...
>
>> They are NOT psychiatric disorders.
>>
>> They are NOT somatic disorders
>
> Denial of the psychological origin of somatic disorders is one of their
> characteristic symptoms.

Symptoms of what?

Among your list is fibromyalgia.

It is NEITHER psychiatric, nor a somatic disorder.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/invoke.cfm?id=DS00079

You hurt all over, and you frequently feel exhausted. Even after numerous
tests, your doctor can't seem to find anything specifically wrong with you.
If this sounds familiar, you may have fibromyalgia, a condition that affects
an estimated 3 million to 6 million people in the United States.
Approximately 80 percent to 90 percent of affected people are women.
Fibromyalgia is a chronic condition characterized by fatigue, widespread
pain in your muscles, ligaments and tendons, and multiple tender points -
places on your body where slight pressure causes pain. Previously, the
condition was known by other names such as fibrositis, chronic muscle pain
syndrome, psychogenic rheumatism and tension myalgias.

Although the intensity of your symptoms may vary, they'll probably never
disappear completely. It may be reassuring to know, however, that
fibromyalgia isn't progressive, crippling or life-threatening. Treatments
and self-care steps can improve symptoms and your general health.

Complementary and alternative medicine
Article sections:
Overview
Signs and symptoms
Causes
Risk factors
When to seek medical advice
Screening and diagnosis
Complications
Treatment
Self-care
Coping skills
Complementary and alternative medicine

Complementary and alternative therapies for pain and stress management
aren't new. Some, such as meditation and yoga, have been practiced for
thousands of years. But their use has become more popular in recent years,
especially with people who have chronic illnesses, such as fibromyalgia.

Several of these treatments do appear to safely relieve stress and
reduce pain, and some are gaining acceptance in mainstream medicine. But
many practices remain unproved because they haven't been adequately studied.

Some of the more common complementary and alternative treatments
promoted for pain management, and the current thinking about their
effectiveness and safety, include:

a.. Chiropractic care. This treatment is based on the philosophy
that restricted movement in the spine may lead to pain and reduced function.
Spinal adjustment (manipulation) is one form of therapy chiropractors use to
treat restricted spinal mobility. The goal is to restore spinal movement
and, as a result, improve function and decrease pain. Chiropractors
manipulate the spine from different positions using varying degrees of
force. Manipulation doesn't need to be forceful to be effective.
Chiropractors may also use massage and stretching to relax muscles that are
shortened or in spasm. Because manipulation has risks, always go to properly
trained and licensed practitioners.
b.. Massage therapy. This is one of the oldest methods of health
care still in practice. It involves use of different manipulative techniques
to move your body's muscles and soft tissues. The therapy aims to improve
circulation in the muscle, increasing the flow of nutrients and eliminating
waste products. Massage can reduce your heart rate, relax your muscles,
improve range of motion in your joints and increase production of your
body's natural painkillers. It often helps relieve stress and anxiety.
Although massage is almost always safe, avoid it if you have open sores,
acute inflammation or circulatory problems.
c.. Osteopathy. Doctors of osteopathy go through rigorous and
lengthy training in academic and clinical settings. They're licensed to
perform many of the same therapies and procedures as conventional doctors.
One area where osteopathy differs from conventional medicine - but is
similar to chiropractic medicine - is in the use of manipulation to address
joint and spinal problems.
d.. Acupressure and acupuncture. Both acupressure and acupuncture
stem from the Chinese belief that 14 invisible pathways, called meridians,
lie beneath your skin. In this belief, when the life force that runs through
these meridians is interrupted, you become ill. Practitioners restore the
flow of the energy by applying pressure with their fingers (acupressure) or
by inserting very fine needles (acupuncture) into the skin. Research on the
benefits of acupressure is inconclusive. But according to the National
Institutes of Health, acupuncture to help control pain associated with
fibromyalgia may be effective.
e..
http://www.niams.nih.gov/ne/highlights/spotlight/2004/fibro_sum.htm

Chronic Low Back Pain as a Model of Fibromyalgia

Neuroendocrine Alterations in Fibromyalgia and Irritable Bowel
Syndrome

Noradrenergic Dysfunction

Neurotrophins and an Animal Model of Fibromyalgia

Autonomic Stress-Reactivity in Fibromyalgia

Neurobiology of Chronic Muscle Pain

http://fmaware.org/fminfo/brochure.htm#diagnosis

Pain The pain of FM is profound, widespread and chronic. It knows no
boundaries, migrating to all parts of the body and varying in intensity. FM
pain has been described as deep muscular aching, throbbing, twitching,
stabbing and shooting pain that defines the very existence of the
Fibromyalgia patient. Neurological complaints such as numbness, tingling and
burning are often present and add to the discomfort of the patient. The
severity of the pain and stiffness is often worse in the morning.
Aggravating factors which affect pain include cold/humid weather,
non-restorative sleep, physical and mental fatigue, excessive physical
activity, physical inactivity, anxiety and stress.

Fatigue In today's world many people complain of fatigue; however, the
fatigue of FM is much more than being tired. It is an all-encompassing
exhaustion that interferes with even the simplest daily activities. It feels
like every drop of energy has been drained from the body, which at times can
leave the patient with a limited ability to function both mentally and
physically.

Sleep Problems Many Fibromyalgia patients have an associated sleep
disorder which prevents them from getting deep, restful, restorative sleep.
Medical researchers have documented specific and distinctive abnormalities
in the stage 4 deep sleep of FM patients. During sleep, individuals with FM
are constantly interrupted by bursts of awake-like brain activity, limiting
the amount of time they spend in deep sleep.

Other symptoms Additional symptoms may include: irritable bowel and
bladder, headaches and migraines, restless legs syndrome (periodic limb
movement disorder), impaired memory and concentration, skin sensitivities
and rashes, dry eyes and mouth, anxiety, depression, ringing in the ears,
dizziness, vision problems, raynaud's syndrome, neurological symptoms and
impaired coordination.

What causes FM?

While the underlying cause or causes of FM still remain a mystery, new
research findings continue to bring us closer to understanding the basic
mechanisms of Fibromyalgia. Most researchers agree that FM is a disorder of
central processing with neuroendocrine/neurotransmitter dysregulation. The
FM patient experiences pain amplification due to abnormal sensory processing
in the central nervous system. An increasing number of scientific studies
now show multiple physiological abnormalities in the FM patient, including:
increased levels of substance P in the spinal cord, low levels of blood flow
to the thalamus region of the brain, HPA axis hypofunction, low levels of
serotonin and tryptophan and abnormalities in cytokine function.

Recent studies show that genetic factors may predispose individuals to
a genetic susceptibility to FM. For some, the onset of FM is slow; however,
in a large percentage of patients the onset is triggered by an illness or
injury that causes trauma to the body. These events may act to incite an
undetected physiological problem already present.

Exciting new research has also begun in the areas of brain imaging and
neurosurgery. Continued work will look at the hypothesis that FM is caused
by an interpretative defect in the central nervous system that brings about
abnormal pain perception. Medical researchers have just begun to untangle
the truths about this life-altering disease.

It's typical of somatically hypervigilant patients
> to bounce from doctor to doctor seeking one who will confirm their
> insistence that their disease is physiological in origin. Often they
> resort
> to "alternative" practitioners who are willing to buy into their
> fantasies,
> but in the end cannot provide effective treatment, either.

See above, to see what a totally liar you are, and the totally lying
websites you post.

Medical lies and WHY people are abandoning medicine.
>
> --Rich
<snip REPEATED proven lies>

[Rich]

"LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote in message

news:SaPYe.158439$084.60992@attbi_s22...

>
> "Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:GDOYe.11$556...@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>>
>> "LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>> news:o9OYe.158195$084.27582@attbi_s22...
>>
>>> They are NOT psychiatric disorders.
>>>
>>> They are NOT somatic disorders
>>
>> Denial of the psychological origin of somatic disorders is one of their
>> characteristic symptoms.
>
> Symptoms of what?
>
> Among your list is fibromyalgia.
>
> It is NEITHER psychiatric, nor a somatic disorder.
>

< snip >

>
> Exciting new research has also begun in the areas of brain imaging
> and neurosurgery. Continued work will look at the hypothesis that FM is
> caused by an interpretative defect in the central nervous system that
> brings about abnormal pain perception. Medical researchers have just begun
> to untangle the truths about this life-altering disease.

This concluding paragraph supports my description of fibromyalgia as a
somatic disorder. Just what do you think an "interpretative defect" is, Jan?

>
> It's typical of somatically hypervigilant patients
>> to bounce from doctor to doctor seeking one who will confirm their
>> insistence that their disease is physiological in origin. Often they
>> resort
>> to "alternative" practitioners who are willing to buy into their
>> fantasies,
>> but in the end cannot provide effective treatment, either.
>
> See above, to see what a totally liar you are, and the totally lying
> websites you post.

What, pray tell, is a "totally liar"? Or a "totally lying" website? I like
to know what I'm being accused of.

>
> Medical lies and WHY people are abandoning medicine.

Don't hold your breath until medicine is abandoned.

[LadyLollipop]

"Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

news:YZNYe.7$55...@tornado.socal.rr.com...

>
> "LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
> news:vJJYe.157295$084.121878@attbi_s22...
>>
>> "Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <sbha...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:1127425607.3...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> LadyLollipop wrote:
>>>
>>>>Harris was making fun of serious REAL SUFFERING, conditions.
>>>
>>>
>>> COMMENT:
>>> Actually Harris was only making fun of people who have real suffering
>>> conditions
>>
>> That is D E S P IC A B L E!!!!!
>>
>>
>> AND are intent on making the world suffer along with them.
>>> These are the people whose car won't start in the morning, or whose
>>> paper doesn't arrive on the doorstep in perfect dry order, and who
>>> therefore are determined that the world is going to be Living Hell for
>>> all who come into contact with them, for the rest of the day.
>>
>> <snip stupidity, it all in their head blah, blah, blah,
>
> He never said "all in their head." Pointing out that some people inflict
> their whining about aches and pains on everyone around them, while others
> bear their suffering and continue to be vital and productive is not
> stupidity.

He calls REAL SUFFERING, whining, like you!

EVERY SINGLE PERSON HERE, AND THOSE ON THE DENTAL NG!!!!!

Deny mercury poisoning from AMALGAMS, and EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has been
on these newsgroups who indeed have had it, and EVEN this lady!!

http://www.toxicteeth.org/forms/mainLineToday.pdf

>
>
>>
>> You have NOT a clue, NOR any compassion, your *organized medicine*
>> training is showing, along with your disconnection from God.
>
> There is no organization that oversees the education of all doctors. There
> are lots of organizations called medical schools, but the overall
> conspiracy that you imagine and incessantly refer to simply does not
> exist.

*Organized medicine* rules what is taught in medical schools!

>
>
>>
>> YOU are the one who needs to go elsewhere, IMHO.
>>
>> You are just one more excellent example, of medical LIES and WHY people
>> are abandoning medicine.
>

<snip>

I am NOT posting to YOU, Rich Shewmaker.
>
>
> --
>
>
> --Rich

[LadyLollipop]

"Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

news:5iOYe.9$55...@tornado.socal.rr.com...

You are indeed, both!

He did NOT go looking for corn products when he had symptoms.

I'm merely pointing out one of the biggest problems of using self-report
as evidence.

You are DISHONESTLY twisting what he said,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,*deliberately*

I didn't invent this notion; it's common knowledge. In fact it's the
reason that science has such
> strict rules for designing experiments. It's easy to fool ourselves.

YOU are a liar, that is VERY clear.

It most certainly does, then you LIE AGAIN!

I've never said that CFS is not a real disease. You
> seem to equate "psychiatric" and "psychosomatic" with "fake" or
> "imaginary". Nothing could be further from the truth.

WOW.

It is a crock.

>
> It's despicable that I'm a nurse? In what way?

Answered above and in most all your posts.

Actually I'm a pretty good one.

That's a crock.

<snippage>

>
>>
>> HE is an example of WHY, people are turning to alternative medicine.
>
>

> --
>
>
> --Rich

[Rich]

"LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote in message

news:QsPYe.398257$xm3.330370@attbi_s21...

>
> "Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:YZNYe.7$55...@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>>
>> "LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>> news:vJJYe.157295$084.121878@attbi_s22...

>>>

>>> Perhaps you need to live with one who has one of these REAL CONDITIONS,
>>> like mercury poisoning, begging God to let them die.
>>
>> Of course mercury poisoning is a real condition. Who's ever said
>> otherwise?
>
> EVERY SINGLE PERSON HERE, AND THOSE ON THE DENTAL NG!!!!!

Not true. Nobody here would deny that mercury poisoning is a real condition.

>
> Deny mercury poisoning from AMALGAMS, and EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has been
> on these newsgroups who indeed have had it, and EVEN this lady!!

Mercury poisoning from silver amalgam dental restorations is a different
kettle of fish.

>
> http://www.toxicteeth.org/forms/mainLineToday.pdf

This sensational story in a local feature magazine is not evidence of
anything.

>>
>>
>>>
>>> You have NOT a clue, NOR any compassion, your *organized medicine*
>>> training is showing, along with your disconnection from God.
>>
>> There is no organization that oversees the education of all doctors.
>> There are lots of organizations called medical schools, but the overall
>> conspiracy that you imagine and incessantly refer to simply does not
>> exist.
>
> *Organized medicine* rules what is taught in medical schools!

You have NO evidence that such an organization exists nor that any
organization "rules" or even influences what is taught in medical schools.

>>
>>
>>>
>>> YOU are the one who needs to go elsewhere, IMHO.
>>>
>>> You are just one more excellent example, of medical LIES and WHY people
>>> are abandoning medicine.
>>
> <snip>
>
> I am NOT posting to YOU, Rich Shewmaker.

I don't care whom you are posting to, I'll answer you whenever I like, thank
you.

[Rich]

"LadyLollipop" <LadyLo...@insightbb.com> wrote in message

news:2HPYe.398308$xm3.97609@attbi_s21...
>

Since you have run out of cogent rejoinders, and are left with only accusing
me of lying, you have lost your points in this discussion and it is at an
end.

[Peter Bowditch]

"Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>What lie is Steve telling? That he takes care of patients who are a pain in
>the ass? I suspect that's quite true.

When I was in hospital with a panic attack which imitated the symptoms
of a heart attack (it was somatisation and all in my head, thank
goodness, but the pain in my chest and arm was real), I overheard
someone refer to me as "the chest pain in bed so-and-so". The next
time I was in hospital was to have a perianal abscess removed. I
assume that on that occasion medical staff referred to me as "the pain
in the arse".

By the way, having my wound examined by a cluster of nurses at the
change of shift cured me forever of being embarrassed by anything.

The surgeon was also the local mayor. I was introduced to him at a
Chamber of Commerce function by someone who didn't know that we knew
each other. I confused onlookers by saying that of course I knew Dr
B-C, and the last time we had spoken I had been lying down while being
wheeled along on a trolley and he had been asking me to sign a paper
which said that if I died it wasn't his fault.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

[cathyb]

Peter Bowditch wrote:
> "Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >What lie is Steve telling? That he takes care of patients who are a pain in
> >the ass? I suspect that's quite true.
>
> When I was in hospital with a panic attack which imitated the symptoms
> of a heart attack (it was somatisation and all in my head, thank
> goodness, but the pain in my chest and arm was real), I overheard
> someone refer to me as "the chest pain in bed so-and-so". The next
> time I was in hospital was to have a perianal abscess removed. I
> assume that on that occasion medical staff referred to me as "the pain
> in the arse".
>
> By the way, having my wound examined by a cluster of nurses at the
> change of shift cured me forever of being embarrassed by anything.

If the actual childbirth hadn't done the same for me, having an English
(Geordie) nurse pull the curtain around my bed after the birth of my
eldest and declare ringingly to the entire ward that "Eeh, lass, you've
got some lovely grapes there" would have.

She wasn't referring to the fruit.

Cathy

[Peter Bowditch]

"cathyb" <cathyb...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

>
>Peter Bowditch wrote:
>> "Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> >What lie is Steve telling? That he takes care of patients who are a pain in
>> >the ass? I suspect that's quite true.
>>
>> When I was in hospital with a panic attack which imitated the symptoms
>> of a heart attack (it was somatisation and all in my head, thank
>> goodness, but the pain in my chest and arm was real), I overheard
>> someone refer to me as "the chest pain in bed so-and-so". The next
>> time I was in hospital was to have a perianal abscess removed. I
>> assume that on that occasion medical staff referred to me as "the pain
>> in the arse".
>>
>> By the way, having my wound examined by a cluster of nurses at the
>> change of shift cured me forever of being embarrassed by anything.
>
>If the actual childbirth hadn't done the same for me, having an English
>(Geordie) nurse pull the curtain around my bed after the birth of my
>eldest and declare ringingly to the entire ward that "Eeh, lass, you've
>got some lovely grapes there" would have.
>
>She wasn't referring to the fruit.
>
>Cathy

When I came out of the anaesthetic a nurse asked my how I was. I said
that I felt OK, except the back of both thighs were aching really
badly. She said "That's from the stirrups. Now you how women feel
after giving birth". Sympathy. That's all I was asking for. When did
nurses stop giving it?

[Rich]

"cathyb" <cathyb...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:1127474352.4...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> Peter Bowditch wrote:
>> "Rich" <jos...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> >What lie is Steve telling? That he takes care of patients who are a pain
>> >in
>> >the ass? I suspect that's quite true.
>>
>> When I was in hospital with a panic attack which imitated the symptoms
>> of a heart attack (it was somatisation and all in my head, thank
>> goodness, but the pain in my chest and arm was real), I overheard
>> someone refer to me as "the chest pain in bed so-and-so". The next
>> time I was in hospital was to have a perianal abscess removed. I
>> assume that on that occasion medical staff referred to me as "the pain
>> in the arse".
>>
>> By the way, having my wound examined by a cluster of nurses at the
>> change of shift cured me forever of being embarrassed by anything.
>
> If the actual childbirth hadn't done the same for me, having an English
> (Geordie) nurse pull the curtain around my bed after the birth of my
> eldest and declare ringingly to the entire ward that "Eeh, lass, you've
> got some lovely grapes there" would have.
>
> She wasn't referring to the fruit.
>
> Cathy
>

Are yee feeling sorry fre yorsel?

;o) Rich

[Rich]

"Peter Bowditch" <myfir...@ratbags.com> wrote in message
news:fgr7j1hvhd4l2a3d4...@4ax.com...

Sympathy's all you wanted? My patients all want Demerol. I can give out
buckets of sympathy without a doctor's order.

;o) Rich

[cathyb]

No. But I was then!

And it's more like:

"a' yoo feel'n sorry f'y'sel?

F'kn gerroverit man."

Cathy

>
> ;o) Rich

[Robert]

"Brad_Chad" <Brad_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1127463052.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

> Conventional medicine does a lot of harm by doing nothing. I have a
> parasite throughout my body that is causing me a lot of problems.

Who diagnosed the parasite and what kind is it?

My
> conventional doctors couldn't give me a decent explanation as to why
> garlic seemed to help my condition. I have had this problem for at
> least 2 years. My alternative doctor could explain why garlic worked.
> My conventional doctors gave me medicine that made things worse. My
> alternative doctors gave me medicine that made things better. This
> happened numerous times.

So why do you continually go back to conventional doctors or could it be you
are still not confident on alternative doctors?

T
>
> Conventional medicine knows a lot of things, but it is no comparison to
> what they still don't know. Why do you think there is so much research?

Why do you think there is no research done by alternative health people and
they know everything?

> Unfortunately, many people don't want to fund proper research on hidden
> food sensitivities because they are afraid of the economic shock it
> might cause the food and drug industries. I don't understand how so
> many people can be so self-righteous when they talk about the "placebo"
> effect considering how much science still doesn't know about a lot of
> things. Conventional medicine must be pretty amoral to keep this
> controversy from the public at large. Placebo or not, the symptoms are
> gone in many cases and people feel better (plus it is safe).

People learn through experience and you seem to have good experiences with
alternative doctors with placebo effects so why are you so upset with
conventional doctors studying food allergies when the answer is to go to
alternative doctors?

If alternative doctors can cure everything then why do you care about
conventional doctors?

This is
> why people go to alternative doctors. They do something for many people
> while conventional doctors stand around and scratch their heads.
>
> Brad_Chad
>

Going to somebody is one thing and getting good results is another.
The reason why you are so upset is because not enough research is done by
conventional medicine in treating your condition and alternative remedies
suck. That's why you continue to go to conventional doctors all the time.