Chris Wareham - Jailed for 18 months
plant
In late 1999, there was a thread on this Newsgroup concerning the 'alleged'
assault by two members of Killing Miranda (Chris and Rikky) on myself. At
the time, I think Phildo spoke for most when he said:
'Until the police have sorted out who is to blame and the truth has come out
I suggest we all stop speculating as to what happened and wait.'
Well, it finally has...
At the end of September of last year, the trial of Chris Wareham took place.
Despite him and his 'star witness' lying through their teeth, and clutching
at every available straw, he was found guilty of 'Assault Occasioning Actual
Bodily Harm'.
His defence was so weak it would have been laughable if it wasn't so
serious. All his defence seemed capable of was contradicting me. No
evidence, no sign of their equipment with 'plant knows' scrawled on it as
someone claimed. Nothing.
Because, quite simply, it doesn't exist.
Which leads us to:
On January 18th Chris Wareham was sentenced to 18 months imprisonment.
The following was posted a few days after the incident in '99:
>>>'I don't condone what Chris tried to do - it could have easily been
Plant's face that was fucked up even if Chris maybe paniked and hit out
without thinking - but on the other hand, I don't condone what Plant did,
and it seems he started the physical fight, so he was totally out of order
as well, and I wouldn't be too shocked if the police charge both of them.'
<<<
One thing I would like to make perfectly clear, is that I did not initiate
any contact or violence in any way shape or form. The 'physical fight' did
not actually take place as Wareham received no physical attack whatsoever
from me. I did not retaliate.
I was pushed up against the DJ booth by Chris and Rikky (who got off very
lightly in this, as personally I would have charged him with being an
accessory - but that's the decision of the Police), I was restrained by both
of them and Chris smashed a pint glass into my face. The only words spoken
to me were:
'Are you Plant?', 'Your mate threatened my girlfriend' and 'Do you know what
this glass could do to your face?'. Quite what he meant by the 'girlfriend'
comment eludes me to this day although the others seem quite clear.
Premeditated? Damn right.
I received three wounds - one through my eyebrow, one on the bridge of my
nose and one just below my eye to the side, forming a triangle around my
left eye. One centimetre in any direction and I could have been blind or
dead.
At no point was there any question of the police charging me with anything,
despite Wareham's claims of 'self defence'.
I would like to offer my thanks and appreciation to all those who never
doubted my honesty, my integrity, my non-aggressive attitude and my
non-violent behaviour, and to those who spoke out in my defence at a time
when I was (I assume) legally unable to do so.
I can think only think of one occasion during this whole episode where
someone on the 'other side' said something true...
'that last laugh still tastes sweet'
Believe me, it does.
Plant
I may be a gobby shite, but I'm not a gobshite.
Saiira
helenpatricia.griffiths
<helenpatricia.griffiths@ntlworld."spam"_is_a_four_letter_word.com> wrote in
message news:d3Od6.10993$cD2.3...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> Anyone who wants to read what everyone had to say after this regrettable
> incident at Damage ][ can search through the Usenet archives at
www.deja.com
> like I did.
*grins* So you weren't even around then eh?! You didn't have to listen to it
the first time...
> Whether you side with Plant or Chris it makes no difference. The law has
> decided what should happen and, whether you think that the law is right or
> wrong, no amount of posting and flame warring will change the judge's
> decision.
We are not asked to side between Plant and Chris, all that was posted was
the outcome of the trial - which I'm sure several people here were waiting
for, myself included.
As for posting and flame warring and changing the judges mind, also unlikely
to happen as a) trial is finiahed b) Chris is probably unable to contribute
c) It's not really an issue to war about anymore as as you say below, it's
finished.
> It's finished. Let's just leave it. Please.
Indeed, but I'm glad it was posted, albeit not in an entirely inoffensive
way....
Saiira
spider_mastermind
unlikely
> to happen as a) trial is finiahed b) Chris is probably unable to
contribute
> c) It's not really an issue to war about anymore as as you say below, it's
> finished.
I read through the flame wars that happened *last* time, hence my worrying.
Sorry if anyone took offence to my request.
--
[spider_mastermind]
[I have come to the conclusion that 'PC' stands for 'Pile of Crap']
<commune, uk.p.g, a.c.v, a.v to spider_m...@ntlworld.com>
<camgoth, other e-mail to hpg...@mercury.anglia.ac.uk>
Nick/Yaruar
> > Whether you side with Plant or Chris it makes no difference. The law has
> > decided what should happen and, whether you think that the law is right or
> > wrong, no amount of posting and flame warring will change the judge's
> > decision.
>
> We are not asked to side between Plant and Chris, all that was posted was
> the outcome of the trial - which I'm sure several people here were waiting
> for, myself included.
Indeed, pretty muchj all the sensible people were shouting 'shut the fuck
up' and agreeing to let the law deal with it whether they were friends of
chris, plant or just neutral.
I think plant was in fact quite restrained given the fact the law has
upheld his version of events.
> As for posting and flame warring and changing the judges mind, also unlikely
> to happen as a) trial is finiahed b) Chris is probably unable to contribute
> c) It's not really an issue to war about anymore as as you say below, it's
> finished.
Yup. Full stop.
> > It's finished. Let's just leave it. Please.
>
> Indeed, but I'm glad it was posted, albeit not in an entirely inoffensive
> way....
Well there is that.
Hopefully everyone involved can now get on with their lives and deal with
the consequences in their own ways.
Nick/Yaruar
Filthy Rikky
We're also responsiable for the building of the millenium dome, the
whitechapel murders and the bubonic plague.
I have no wish to discuss this any further and regret that Plant seems
determined to keep this "war" alive. Not only on a personal level but
in a public forum.
To be honest I've hardly given the matter a second thought since Chris
left the band (actually for missing a vital recording session) as I've
chosen to get on with my career as a musician.
Escalating events will certainly not achieve this.
I have my opinion of what happened and I stand by it. I cannot express
remorse as I cannot accept that any wrong doing happened from what I
saw. It's a shame that the alternative version of events seems to be
the one swallowed wholesale but I cannot refute the evidence of my own
eyes.
However, this is one of those things that I see firmly as belonging to
the realms of our private lives (collectively) and again trying to use
this against KM is cheap but expected. All along we refrained from
getting involved in threads about the incident at damage because we saw
it as an incident revolving solely around two individuals evident hate
of each other....
Plant refers to "the last laugh being sweetest". Well. Life goes on a
long time and is full of surprises and one of those is that despite the
efforts of him and his friends since our very inception to bury us we
remain the best goth band (IMHO) to have come out of Britain in the
90's and we have worked tirelessly at home and abroad to further
ourselves and the scene we are part of.
We believe in our music and I for one and proud to be in a band with
guys I regard as intelligent, compassionate and talented in the
extreme. What does not kill us can only make us stronger.
Oh yeah.
Thanks for the free publicity.
Filthy Rikky
Killing Miranda
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
simon topp
>
> However, this is one of those things that I see firmly as belonging to
> the realms of our private lives (collectively) and again trying to use
> this against KM is cheap but expected. All along we refrained from
> getting involved in threads about the incident at damage because we saw
> it as an incident revolving solely around two individuals evident hate
> of each other....
>
This has nothing to do with me except I did read most of the original
posts. Plant (who I have never knowingly met) mentioned that he was attacked
by two members of a goth band, Killing Miranda, in a goth club. That is the
sole reason why any of this incident had any place being discussed on here
at all. Mentioning once that the band they were members of was Killing
Miranda was relevent and does not constitute an attack on the band itself.
The End
Simon
mrs.swan
>I have no wish to discuss this any further and regret that Plant seems
>determined to keep this "war" alive. Not only on a personal level but
>in a public forum.
Then why are you posting on here AT ALL?
> we
>remain the best goth band (IMHO) to have come out of Britain in the
>90's and we have worked tirelessly at home and abroad to further
>ourselves and the scene we are part of.
I think you're having a laugh..........
>Oh yeah.
>
>Thanks for the free publicity.
You need all that you can get :)
Miss B
spider_mastermind
filled with flames. If you must row, do it in private e-mail and waste each
other's bandwidth instead of wasting the bandwidth of everyone on this
newsgroup.
--
[spider_mastermind] [Setting up killfiles just in case]
Matthew North
we
> remain the best goth band (IMHO) to have come out of Britain in the
>
Ummmm, Nothing like blowing your own trumpet, Inkubus, ALF & The Dream
disciples, probably played more Live gigs than anyone else in the 90s,
and as for best band, as far as im concerned It cant be anyone else
other than Rosetta Stone, who progressed the scene and kept it alive
for the latter part of the 90s.
Matt
--
All Living Fear
http://www.alllivingfear.co.uk
http://www.matthewnorth.com
Blakes 7 tech Forum http://disc.server.com/Indices/132482.html
mrs.swan
wrote:
>Rikky wrote:-
>
>we
>> remain the best goth band (IMHO) to have come out of Britain in the
>>
>
>Ummmm, Nothing like blowing your own trumpet, Inkubus, ALF & The Dream
>disciples, probably played more Live gigs than anyone else in the 90s,
>and as for best band, as far as im concerned It cant be anyone else
>other than Rosetta Stone, who progressed the scene and kept it alive
>for the latter part of the 90s.
>
>Matt
I totally agree with you there - but I don't think a bands talent is
determined by the number of gigs they've played.
Lesley x
Goblin
| >
|
| Ummmm, Nothing like blowing your own trumpet, Inkubus, ALF & The Dream
| disciples, probably played more Live gigs than anyone else in the 90s,
| and as for best band, as far as im concerned It cant be anyone else
| other than Rosetta Stone, who progressed the scene and kept it alive
| for the latter part of the 90s.
Well, blowing their own trumpet and pushing the band has given them fairly
high profile gigs over the last year in terms of European festivals. It's
all a matter of opinion really. I like KM a lot and their stuff is a lot of
fun. Rosetta were always a bit whingey (though with some just cause) for me
and I feel a lot of stuff is a bit similar. DD are good but don't give
themselves enough push to stand out a lot. Suspiria and Faithful Dawn did a
good bit for the scene in bringing some home grown bleepyness and overly
gothy overtones.
Regardless, the behaviour of members of the band, past or present, has
little bearing on the music produced, so my opinion is to let judicial
matters be sorted in the appropriate channels, as they have been, and get on
with being nice happy families again. Personal differences are of little
interest to those who do not have personal interests.
Goblin
--
remove DONOTREMOVE to reply
------------------------------------------------------
It's all fun and games until a 200' robot dinosaur turns up and trashes
Neo-Tokyo.... Again.
digiboy | marcus
"Goblin" <sgi...@DONOTREMOVEcomputing.dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
> Personal differences are of little
> interest to those who do not have personal interests.
Exactly. Just make the damn music... ;)
--
[ marcus ] [ http://www.cybergoth.cjb.net ]
[ ---- http://www.ninjakitten.net/digiboy ]
polarise
Matthew North <all...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> Rikky wrote:-
>
> we
> > remain the best goth band (IMHO) to have come out of Britain in the
> >
>
> Ummmm, Nothing like blowing your own trumpet, Inkubus, ALF & The Dream
> disciples, probably played more Live gigs than anyone else in the 90s,
> and as for best band, as far as im concerned It cant be anyone else
> other than Rosetta Stone, who progressed the scene and kept it alive
> for the latter part of the 90s.
Yes and for the nineties Children On Stun, The Horatii ,Manuskript,
Suspiria are all contenders too...... mind you to be fair the old IMHO
was used....
Ian C.
plant
I hadn't planned to post here again.
As people pointed out, I was actually quite restrained compared to what I
could have said.
However...
Rikky's response disgusts me. I had hoped that he may have had the courage
and integrity to actually admit he was wrong. I find myself wondering how he
actually lives with himself day to day, knowing full well that his actions
have, in part, sent someone who was supposed to be his friend to prison
while he's walked away with his 'nose clean'. He says he's hardly given the
matter a second thought since Wareham left the band... some friend! Always
there to offer his support in times of need!
He says it's a shame about the 'alternative version of events' being
believed. Would that be the version that was seen by sober witnesses, put
forward in court to a jury of twelve independent people and found to be
true? Or would it be the version of Rikky and Wareham, two completely pissed
people, who were so drunk they were still shouting abuse at me in front of
the Police as I walked out of the club to the ambulance. I would like to
point out as well that to the best of my knowledge they didn't even give
their statements on the night, so they had a chance to go away and magic up
something from fantasyland and get their stories straight (which I don't
actually think they did).
This was not an incident between two individuals, it was between three. As I
have said before, both Rikky and Wareham pushed me against the wall, and
Rikky was restraining me when Wareham did the glassing. He was just as
involved.
I don't actually know the correct legal terminology, but I was quite
surprised that Rikky wasn't charged himself, with something along the lines
of 'accessory to assault', 'incitement to commit assault' or 'conspiracy to
commit assault'. They couldn't have just spontaneously decided to attack me
at exactly the same moment, so it must have been talked about beforehand.
Rikky is the one with the chip on his shoulder so perhaps he wound Wareham
up, let him go and then stood back and watched him take the fall?
I've never really had an argument with Wareham. The extent of my contact
with him, was posting about him hitting his girlfriend (which he admitted to
and which was re-posted on the 'KM in Liverpool don't believe the lies
thread' at the request of his girlfriend), and also being present when he
was thrown out of Whitby for the second time, due to him being barred. My
dealings have always been with Rikky, he's the only member of Killing
Miranda I have had any contact with, and that has always been on UPG - a
public forum. As for Dave, Dave and Belle, I know nothing about them other
than that Belle is pretty much universally well spoken of, and liked by
everyone who meets him.
To call this an attack on Killing Miranda is ridiculous, I was merely
posting News to a Newsgroup. It was never going to, but I'm sure Rikky
wouldn't try to insult anyone's intelligence by claiming he would have kept
a 'dignified silence' if the verdict had gone the other way?
I have been effectively legally gagged for the past year and a half, and
while Rikky says he refrained from posting on the 'Incident at Damage'
thread, he has been extremely vocal spouting off all kinds of crap on others
(KM in Liverpool, etc.), so of course I'm going to post about this. Who
wouldn't? I've just had a legal victory, and they've just been proven to be
liars.
I personally believe that Wareham would have got off with a much lighter
sentence if he had told the truth from the start. If he had just said that
he was drunk, did it, was sorry and that it was out of character - which of
course actual violence is, as he has no previous record (violent threats
however are another matter as we have all witnessed on this NG), then I
believe that he would more than likely not be in prison now. It was the
arrogance of both Rikky and Wareham and their inability to believe they
could be wrong, that led them to the situation that they - or more
accurately, just Wareham - is in now.
'That last laugh still tastes sweet' by the way, is actually a direct quote
from one of Rikky's more smug and self-righteous posts. I thought it apt.
I'm glad that Rikky really does believe in his music as that could take him
far, but ultimately it will be his attitude that destroys it.
No doubt most responses to this post will be along the lines of 'You've had
your say, leave it at that', but as I said earlier Rikky has disgusted me.
Partly for what he helped do to me, but also for how he treats his 'friends'
in the aftermath.
plant
Morph
>To call this an attack on Killing Miranda is ridiculous, I was merely
>posting News to a Newsgroup. It was never going to, but I'm sure Rikky
>wouldn't try to insult anyone's intelligence by claiming he would have kept
>a 'dignified silence' if the verdict had gone the other way?
[snip]
>No doubt most responses to this post will be along the lines of 'You've had
>your say, leave it at that',
That's my view, certainly. Not because I agree or disagree with you,
but because this really isn't the place for it, as Helen pointed out a
couple of days ago. This thread is now well into "don't feed the
troll(s)" territory.
You've told us your side, Rikky responded and said his piece. And I
imagine everyone reading this has already formed their opinions, based
on what was said then - and how the people involved said it. The facts
haven't changed in the last 48 hours, have they? The court case is
over. We all know the result.
Any further discussion on the topic veers dangerously close to
'(re)trial by media' - and, personally, I don't think Usenet is any
better suited to this than, say, the tabloids.
It's not achieving anything, it's not telling us anything that most of
us don't already know from the previous threads - or telling us
anything that most of us *want* to know- and, as in any heated usenet
argument, the facts tend to become increasingly irrelevant after a few
days of flaming.
So, yes, I'd suggest you (both) leave it at that. Having written this
piece (in the hope it'll make people think twice before posting), I
certainly intend to.
End rant. Killfile subject.
-Morph
[No follow-ups, please]
--
"Remember, remember, the Fifth of November, the gunpowder treason
and plot. I know of no reason why the Fifth of November should ever
be forgot. And next time, we should use napalm instead of gunpowder
and not get caught" - Warren Ellis
All the Clay in the World
spider_mastermind
<spider_mastermind@ntlworld."spam"_is_a_four_letter_word.com> wrote in
message news:0Bbe6.323$Ee3....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> No no no no no no no no no. Stop this now before the whole newsgroup gets
> filled with flames. If you must row, do it in private e-mail and waste
each
> other's bandwidth instead of wasting the bandwidth of everyone on this
> newsgroup.
Killfiles, bay-bee.....
Filter people, filter subject lines.....filter coffee.....hmmmmm!
----Clay
BlackBored
>
> Rikky wrote:-
>
> we
> > remain the best goth band (IMHO) to have come out of Britain in the
> >
KM are a goth band ???? *gape*
Theres some piccies of their "colourful" (I'm still getting over those
trousers) performance at the Whitby Thesmophoria festival at:
http://www.ninemuses.demon.co.uk/wds (the photos page, obviously)
Guy
--
Alexander
>KM are a goth band ???? *gape*
>
>Theres some piccies of their "colourful" (I'm still getting over those
>trousers) performance at the Whitby Thesmophoria festival at:
Yeah, next thing you know bands like Goteki will be claiming to be goth!
Or not.
--
~Alexander /-/ http://www.alexander.cx/ /-/ ICQ: 6165829
"Computer games and Movies don't affect kids, I mean if PacMan or Tron affected us as kids, we'd all run around in a darkened room munching pills, listening to repetitive music and holding glow sticks." Alex - Alt.Cyberpunk
/mel/
> >Ummmm, Nothing like blowing your own trumpet, Inkubus, ALF & The Dream
> >disciples, probably played more Live gigs than anyone else in the 90s,
> >and as for best band, as far as im concerned It cant be anyone else
> >other than Rosetta Stone, who progressed the scene and kept it alive
> >for the latter part of the 90s.
> >
> >Matt
>
> I totally agree with you there - but I don't think a bands talent is
> determined by the number of gigs they've played.
>
> Lesley x
I agree.
To which I'd add - a bands talent is inversely proportional to the number
of cover versions that they've done.
/Mel/
NP:
All the Clay in the World
/mel/ <mel@cix...co...uk> wrote in message
news:memo.20010202...@mel.compulink.co.uk...
Excepting, of course, Johnny Cash, This Mortal Coil, The Hope Blister,
Siouxsie and the Banshees, Nick Cave, Diamanda Galas.....
----Clay