Is Slimelight Really a Goth Club?
Chris Damage
since I subcribed, and I've got to say (IMHO) I think that it's a lot too
easy to forget, on a goth newsgroup, that Slimelight's a pretty unique
place. I mean yeah, goth's on the flyers and plenty of goths go there but
it's not really your average goth club. So what if people from upstairs
danced to the girls set? They've paid they're money too. There seems to be
an assumption that it's a Goth club that's somehow being subverted or
watered down by techno/industrial, but unless I'm mistaken there's been a
slimelight longer than there's been a goth floor and the industrial side of
it is certainly no less valid.
The fact is that I love slimelight and I love goth music but the two aren't
necessarily connected for me. If downstairs just went classic/trad goth I'd
be really dissappointed and i think there are a lot of people (not
necessarily on UPG) who'd agree. I probably wouldn't recommend Slimes to a
goth friend, I'd tell them to go to Tenebrae, and I'd wear a frilly shirt
and go with them and have a great night, but what a lot of people don't seem
to realise is that the blend of music played at slimes is far more rare than
the music that tends to be played at goth nights up and down the country.
Obscure german darkwave (not actually my thing Btw) seems far more in
fitting with the image of the club than, say, All About Eve. We do need
good goth nights but I think that if you go to Slimelight you're looking in
the wrong place. The London scene is incredibly rich and varied, and if it
wasen't for Goth I never would have got into it to start with, but Goth,
however important, is just a part of it. :-)
Chris Damage
Alexander
>I probably wouldn't recommend Slimes to a
>goth friend, I'd tell them to go to Tenebrae, and I'd wear a frilly shirt
>and go with them and have a great night, but what a lot of people don't seem
>to realise is that the blend of music played at slimes is far more rare than
>the music that tends to be played at goth nights up and down the country.
I think it's rather ironic that the people who are complaining about not
enough Goth are the ones you'll never find at Tenebrae, at least not
regularly or even semi-regularly. They should put their money where their
mouths are and support more trad clubs rather than flock into Slimelight
every week just so they can bitch about the music. If you don't like the
place, then vote with your feet and don't go there. I believe it's the
same people that all go to the Ballroom and bitch about the techno
there... :P
But it's all academic now, it looks like Tenebrae is going to be
infrequent at best. We're lacking London goths at Malice Underground too
these day. It appears goths can only drum up the energy when they have
something to whinge about. It seems that to run a successful goth club you
have to play music that no-one will dance to and everyone will complain
about.
--
~Alexander : Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit
DJing at Malice Underground, Club Tenebrae & Heresy (Electrowerkz)
URL: http://www.alexander.darkwave.org.uk/ ICQ: 6165829
Steve Slimelight
> We do need
> good goth nights but I think that if you go to Slimelight you're looking in
> the wrong place. The London scene is incredibly rich and varied, and if it
> wasen't for Goth I never would have got into it to start with, but Goth,
> however important, is just a part of it. :-)
I don't completly agree, because we're now back to the "what is goth" thread,
because it depends on your idea of what goth is. I can imagine what you think it
is, and I'd guess that in mainland Europe it'd be called "Brit-goth" which was
popular there when it was popular here, but the scene there has moved on, and
grown (hence Festivals with 20,000 people with all sorts of goth / darkwave /
industrial / obscure / brit-goth type bands) but here it seems some people like
to go on and on about old bands and new bands that sound like old bands (which
is essentially what Brit-goth means), YET which bands are the most popular in
the goth scene? Mesh, Apoptygma Berzerk, and Project Pitchfork, none of which
I'd call Brit-goth...
Steve.
--
"In the middle of the night, you don't know what I'm thinking, but the stars
still sparkle and shine.
Seems like all of the time, our boat was slowly sinking, and you didn't even
seem to mind
Now all I want to do is sleep..."
SLIMELIGHT URL: http://www.slimelight.com
Revolution By Night are sponsored by inflatable penguins ltd.
Chris Damage
Alexander wrote in message <37cc3c09...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>I think it's rather ironic that the people who are complaining about not
>enough Goth are the ones you'll never find at Tenebrae, at least not
>regularly or even semi-regularly. They should put their money where their
>mouths are and support more trad clubs rather than flock into Slimelight
>every week just so they can bitch about the music.
I agree, I could never understand why more people never went to Tenebrae,
although it always seemed pretty full when I used to go regularly (about a
year and a half ago). As from a Goth point of view the
atmosphere/music/people were pretty much perfect...on the other hand over £5
for a G&T is a bit harsh. Having just moved back to London I was looking
forward to going again but I guess it just wasn't meant to be *sigh*
Chris Damage
Steve Slimelight wrote in message <37CC3E8A...@slimelight.com>...
>Chris Damage wrote:
>
>>The London scene is incredibly rich and varied, and if it
>> wasen't for Goth I never would have got into it to start with, but Goth,
>> however important, is just a part of it. :-)
>
>I don't completly agree, because we're now back to the "what is goth"
thread,
>because it depends on your idea of what goth is.
Fair comment, I do tend to have a bit of a Knee jerk reaction if I think
anyone is being critical of the more electro end of things :-)
>I can imagine what you think it
>is, and I'd guess that in mainland Europe it'd be called "Brit-goth"
Not necessarily, there are alot of bands around who are unquestionably goth
and still don't conform to that stereotype, like SBM or Faithful Dawn.
Ironically though they don't seem to get played much at Slimelight.
Chris Damage
Dave (Exile)
news:37cc3c09...@news.demon.co.uk...
> But it's all academic now, it looks like Tenebrae is going to be
> infrequent at best. We're lacking London goths at Malice Underground too
> these day[s].
Bugger - as soon as I move to London, the club that's likely to be best for
me personally stops running... what exactly is the situation with Tenebrae?
> It appears goths can only drum up the energy when they have
> something to whinge about. It seems that to run a successful goth club you
> have to play music that no-one will dance to and everyone will complain
> about.
Maybe I'm just lucky with the Exile clientele, but usually lots of people
dance and I get hardly any complaints - although there was the blue
jeans-clad woman who accused me of playing "no goth all night" (and my sets
contain *a lot* of traditional goth - check out
www.drischmi.dircon.co.uk/exile), got into full-on strop mode, and almost
had to be escorted from the stage because I wouldn't play "She Sells
Sanctuary" for her! But I digress.
Back to the subject, I suppose Malice Underground is likely to be more of a
problem for people as it's on a weeknight, which would explain the low
proportion of Londoners - many people have jobs to get up for, whereas
people who are on holiday, just passing through, students etc. don't usually
have the same problem.
If Tenebrae is becoming really infrequent, or likely to disappear
altogether, does anyone have plans to sort out another regular London goth
night on a Friday? I'd be more than happy to get involved in this, although
I realise London isn't the easiest place to start things up.
-------
Dave
(Next Exile: Friday 3rd September)
Whisky Dave
Chris Damage <Ch...@drunkengoth.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:936146496.7096.1...@news.demon.co.uk...
>
> Alexander wrote in message <37cc3c09...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>
> >I think it's rather ironic that the people who are complaining about not
> >enough Goth are the ones you'll never find at Tenebrae, at least not
> >regularly or even semi-regularly. They should put their money where
their
> >mouths are and support more trad clubs rather than flock into Slimelight
> >every week just so they can bitch about the music.
>
>
> I agree, I could never understand why more people never went to Tenebrae,
How about because it's small and rather expensive drink wise.
Karl
> I agree, I could never understand
> why more people never went to Tenebrae,
Let's see. The dancefloor is tiny, The Bar prices are more than overpriced,
the Door Price is high for the length of time you are going to be in there,
the seating in too little, the lighting is bad, it is nearly as dirty as
slimes....
Karl
guy ruth hammond
> > I agree, I could never understand why more people never went to Tenebrae,
>
> How about because it's small and rather expensive drink wise.
and it's full of goths!
Some folk say that France would be a great country if it wasn't
for the people, and goth would be a great scene if it wasn't for
the music.
--
guy ruth hammond <g...@agency.com> | "Wade in with our workboots,
Oracle DBA/BCfH, AGENCY.COM: London | try to finish the job"
http://www.agency.com/ | -- Dar Williams
Mat
> Some folk say that France would be a great country if it wasn't
> for the people, and goth would be a great scene if it wasn't for
> the music.
You keep on making these remarks about goth music… and how much you
love your Techno. As many people would think, without goth music there
would be no goths… makes me wonder why the hell you hang around here
for.
Mat
*********************************
http://members.xoom.com/MathewDC/
*********************************
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
silentmemory
>I think it's rather ironic that the people who are
>complaining about not enough Goth are the ones you'll
>never find at Tenebrae, at least not regularly
Bzzt, wrong.
>If you don't like the place, then vote with your feet and
>don't go there. I believe it's the same people that all go
>to the Ballroom and bitch about the techno there... :P
Wrong again. If you don't like an aspect of a place you
enjoy, do something to make it better, or at least try.
Whether the girls stay or leave Slimelight, I'll still go
and enjoy myself. The Ballroom is a different matter - I go
for the rock room :o)
>We're lacking London goths at Malice Underground too these
>day. It appears goths can only drum up the energy when
>they have something to whinge about.
Strike three, you're out. London goths don't flock to
Malice because it's midweek and we've all got jobs. In
addition the beer at Gossips is crap and overpriced and
getting home after the club closes is a nightmare if you
don't want to fork out for a taxi.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Alexander
>Bugger - as soon as I move to London, the club that's likely to be best for
>me personally stops running... what exactly is the situation with Tenebrae?
Normally, Gossips caters for four clubs on the Fridays of the month.
Tenebrae had the slot on the 3rd Friday of every month. this was taken
over by a reggae night leaving Tenebrae out in the cold. Essentially,
Tenebrae will (probably) run on the 5th friday of the month (when
there is one) or when another night doesn't run (as was the case last
Friday).
The problem being is that advertising them is going to be a bastard as
we don't have the regular slot, so to find out when the next one will
be you'll really have to keep your ears to the ground rather than just
assuming it's on the 3rd Friday. The last one only came about less
than two weeks before it actually happened; the DJs for the night were
not confirmed until 30 mins before the doors opened...
>If Tenebrae is becoming really infrequent, or likely to disappear
>altogether, does anyone have plans to sort out another regular London goth
>night on a Friday? I'd be more than happy to get involved in this, although
>I realise London isn't the easiest place to start things up.
Well, personally speaking, the HQ club approached me to Goth up their
'Jet, black and bleached' night on a Friday every now and then, but
I'm still waiting for them to get back to me. Apart from that, we have
the upcoming 'Heresy' @ electrowrkz which has now had it's name
changed to 'Disassembly' starting october 1st.
However, you'll generally find that no-one in their right mind is
likely to start up a goth club after the summer period. It's odd, but
the winter months are when most goths go into hiding (barring
christmas and easter)...
--
~Alexander : Exigo a me non ut optimis par sim, sed ut malis melior
Blackbird
>
> guy wrote:
>
> > Some folk say that France would be a great country if it wasn't
> > for the people, and goth would be a great scene if it wasn't for
> > the music.
>
> You keep on making these remarks about goth music… and how much you
> love your Techno. As many people would think, without goth music there
> would be no goths… makes me wonder why the hell you hang around here
> for.
>
> Mat
>
Hang on, Hang on, much as it pains me.. I have to support Guy's comments
to some extent. I personally don;t think you can really say there *is*
any such thing as Goth music at the core of the scene any more.. there
is a mish-mash of badly concieved and excecuted
rock-metal-industrial-techno.. and the *very* odd half decent band here
and there. Goth music itself has no real identity wich means the other
cultural aspects tend to dominate..
I certainly wouldn;t support the view that *Goth music* is somehow
holding the scene together.. becasue it doesn;t exist. Ultimately it's
*Goths* that perpetuate the scene.
--
Guy (yes, another one)
Dammerung website.. with added purple and some MP3's at:
Alexander
wrote:
>> I agree, I could never understand
>> why more people never went to Tenebrae,
>
>Let's see. The dancefloor is tiny, The Bar prices are more than overpriced,
>the Door Price is high for the length of time you are going to be in there,
>the seating in too little, the lighting is bad, it is nearly as dirty as
>slimes....
You would prefer staying at home then I take it?
I agree, It's far from perfect but we're trying to do the best with
what we've got. If Tenebrae was packed out every week then the
management would probably look into getting a bigger and better venue
to cope with demand, but all they see is that there is no demand.
If you can justify a bigger and better venue, then you'll get one.
It's like asking your boss to buy you a better company car than the
one you've got when you don't even use the one you've got as it is,
don't be suprised when you don't get something better and the one
you've got is allocated to somebody else.
guy ruth hammond
> You keep on making these remarks about goth music… and how much you
> love your Techno. As many people would think, without goth music there
> would be no goths… makes me wonder why the hell you hang around here
> for.
There would be goths, and they wouldn't have to listen to "bela
lugosi's dead" every week.
Steve Slimelight
> I agree, I could never understand why more people never went to Tenebrae,
> year and a half ago). As from a Goth point of view the
> atmosphere/music/people were pretty much perfect...
The same "girls from Slimelight" some people are complaining about also
DJ here at each event and play pretty much the same type of sets as they
do at Slimelight.
This whole thread is an intense bore. Wasn't it only a few weeks back
when we went round exactly the same old "discussion" but from a slightly
different angle?
Steve.
--
"In the middle of the night, you don't know what I'm thinking, but the
stars still sparkle and shine
Karl
>> Let's see. The dancefloor is tiny, The
>> Bar prices are more than overpriced,
>> the Door Price is high for the length of time
>> you are going to be in there, the seating in too
>> little, the lighting is bad, it is nearly as dirty as
>> slimes....
>You would prefer staying at home then I take it?
No I would prefer going somewhere else. Which I do.
Karl
Mat
> Hang on, Hang on, much as it pains me.. I have to support Guy's
comments
> to some extent. I personally don;t think you can really say there *is*
> any such thing as Goth music at the core of the scene any more
True… (Except for a few exemptions) but there was good goth music and
even Guy is against/ hates that. [B] Just look at his reply to my
posting? His comment was at a key goth song by the godfathers of goth.
>.. there is a mish-mash of badly concieved and excecuted
> rock-metal-industrial-techno.. and the *very* odd half decent band
here
> and there. Goth music itself has no real identity wich means the other
> cultural aspects tend to dominate.. =
I agree with you on this… I haven’t got a clue what’s happening in the
music (goth or any other) scene at the mo’. Everything seams to be so
frow away. With all these dodgy Techno Compellations on sale it looks
like techno albums from one…erm… artist is ni-on impossible to come
across[B].
> I certainly wouldn;t support the view that *Goth music* is somehow
> holding the scene together.. becasue it doesn;t exist. Ultimately it's
> *Goths* that perpetuate the scene.
The scene is small and rather unhealthy… but things could get better…
hopefully.
Mat
[A]. I know there are some out there but all the adverts on TV are for
some crap Ibiza compellation or “This is Techno 45”.
[B]. Hopefully things will change when all them cool old bands release
their new stuff.
--
Clay Young
>
> The problem being is that advertising them is going to be a bastard as
> we don't have the regular slot, so to find out when the next one will
> be you'll really have to keep your ears to the ground rather than just
> assuming it's on the 3rd Friday.
Mailing lists, real ones, can work wonders....
----Clay
Alexander
>>> the Door Price is high for the length of time
>>> you are going to be in there, the seating in too
>>> little, the lighting is bad, it is nearly as dirty as
>>> slimes....
>>You would prefer staying at home then I take it?
>
>No I would prefer going somewhere else. Which I do.
Fair enough, but on a Friday in London 'there is nowhere else'.
Unless you count the Ballroom :)
Or you could go to the Fox/Devvy I suppose.
Ben Wilson
writes
>Chris Damage wrote:
>
>> I agree, I could never understand
>> why more people never went to Tenebrae,
>
>
>Let's see. The dancefloor is tiny,
Agreed
>The Bar prices are more than overpriced,
Nope - they're just overpriced ):oP
Well, spirits are anyway
>the Door Price is high for the length of time you are going to be in there,
Compared to what for fucks sake. It's DAMN cheap compared to most
central London clubs
>the seating in too little,
It's got one of the highest seats-punters ratios I've seen in a west-end
club. The more you have sitting, the less room there is
>the lighting is bad,
What d'ya want? Bela Lughosi (techno remix) with full laser light show -
fireworks maybe? Like the wonderful light shows at Slimes, Ballroom etc.
> it is nearly as dirty as
>slimes....
Well, it's clean enough before ppl turn up - guess who's making all the
mess. They can't exactly rush out and clean it DURING the night can
they?
>
Is it any wonder that there aren't many goth clubs?
>Karl
>
>
--
Ben 'Morgoth' Wilson
DJing @ Malice, Wag, Tenebrae,
WGW '99, Demonia '99
and now *** Glam Slam '99 ***
E-mail: dj...@armoury1.demon.co.uk
Ben Wilson
<dris...@dircon.co.uk> writes
>> But it's all academic now, it looks like Tenebrae is going to be
>> these day[s].
>
>Bugger - as soon as I move to London, the club that's likely to be best for
>me personally stops running... what exactly is the situation with Tenebrae?
It's closed.
For no other reason than lack of interest.
There's some ideas being discussed for a future resurection, but TBH we
can't afford to keep throwing money away. Friday's costs are VERY high.
I haven't got paid for Tenebrae AT ALL this year - not a penny. We ran
it at a loss for as long as we could, but if ppl can't be aresed to
come, there nothing we can do. Everyone slags off the Ballroom no end,
but would still rather go there and slag it off. I think it's the goth-
sheep mentallity.
--
Ben 'Morgoth' Wilson
DJing @ Malice, Wag, Tenebrae (rip),
Alexander
>> I agree, I could never understand why more people never went to Tenebrae,
>> although it always seemed pretty full when I used to go regularly (about a
>> year and a half ago). As from a Goth point of view the
>> atmosphere/music/people were pretty much perfect...
>
>The same "girls from Slimelight" some people are complaining about also
>DJ here at each event and play pretty much the same type of sets as they
>do at Slimelight.
This is true, but Batman liked 'em :)
They haven't done one recently, in fact they haven't done one in a
while, albeit it some of those were because they were off to Europe
every now and then. I can't really say I think it's any great loss
IMHO. Probably too little too late though.
>This whole thread is an intense bore. Wasn't it only a few weeks back
>when we went round exactly the same old "discussion" but from a slightly
>different angle?
Yup. AG has "Is X goth?" we have the neverending "Why is Slimelight
crap?" threads ;)
Alexander
wrote:
Tenebrae has been advertised here, Tarts and sometimes sluts almost
every time it's happened. albei I only make sure it gets done when I'm
DJing (i.e. enough of a reason). I even stood outside the fox last
Friday for an hour flyering.
However, the percentage of net.goths at any goth club/event (barring
net.goth events) isn't all that much. At most, I'd say 20%, if that.
Oh....
Real ones.... (he says backtracking)
Well, it's an idea I suppose. Although I'd say the priority would be
to flyer the clubs properly, before we start a mailing list (more
effort, more cost, potentially less gain).
Dave (Exile)
> >altogether, does anyone have plans to sort out another regular London
goth
> >night on a Friday? I'd be more than happy to get involved in this,
although
> >I realise London isn't the easiest place to start things up.
>
> Well, personally speaking, the HQ club approached me to Goth up their
> 'Jet, black and bleached' night on a Friday every now and then, but
> I'm still waiting for them to get back to me. Apart from that, we have
> the upcoming 'Heresy' @ electrowrkz which has now had it's name
> changed to 'Disassembly' starting october 1st.
...which, of course, clashes with Exile. Time for some trips down the A3,
then... got any future dates to hand, Mr Scathe?
Archaea
> Not necessarily, there are alot of bands around who are unquestionably goth
> and still don't conform to that stereotype, like SBM or Faithful Dawn.
> Ironically though they don't seem to get played much at Slimelight.
Which is exactly what I meant a few threads back when I was moaning
about the music. I don't want Sisters, I can dance to that at the
Calling any time, but things like SBM, Killing Miranda, and, yes,
Pitchfork (a britgoth who will actually dance to it! ooo!) And Evil's
Toy, and Beborn Beton, and loads of other stuff.
Archaea XX
---
as heathen as a sack of stoats
archaeus (at) darkwave (dot) org (dot) uk
hatty
Kieran wrote in message ...
>Mat wrote:
>>
>>You keep on making these remarks about goth music? and how much you
>>love your Techno. As many people would think, without goth music there
>>for.
>
>Old times sake, perhaps?
>
>Besides, as he's just pointed out, the music is not the only part of
the
>scene worth liking.
Which must also apply to me - I don`t like very much of the "new" goth
that I hear these days and I am bored of "old" goth although I respect
its place in my life. I certainly don`t dress like a goth. I am out and
proud about my love of techno, trance and yup, Ibiza.
Does this mean I am banned from goth events? That I should shut down
hattys Hostel for Lost Goths? That I should withdraw my support from
most of the gothic events in Bham. And its not because blokey prefers
the goth scene that I continue to "hang around" - he came later.
Why do I keep "hanging around"? I like the people. I like the mind set.
I like reminiscing. I don`t want the goth scene to die and go away. And
yes, some of it is about old times sake. But it isn`t about the music
for me anymore - the occaisional tune (Chaos Engine, Apoty Bzk until I
had heard it too much, odd thing coming out of rentboys room) I like.
hatty
hatty
Mat wrote in message <7qjiu6$ool$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>[A]. I know there are some out there but all the adverts on TV are for
>some crap Ibiza compellation or “This is Techno 45”.
I am sure you will agree that you won`t find good "goth" advertised on
TV - its not really the place to look for good music. 99% of the Ibiza
compilations are complete pants (TranceNation is not too bad IMO) and
watching Ibiza Uncovered isn`t going to give anyone pointers to
anything worth giving a go.
Unlike goth, taking a risk at a dance club can be an expensive and
lonely mistake. On the goth scene it does not really matter if I hate
the music because I can chat to people. In a dance club it can be very
boring if your not into it. Everyones dancing and your left talking to
Mr Dribble of Muntersville.
One of the Reactivate compilation CDs might give you some idea of the
proper (IMO) trance scene. I would reccomend Nick Warren Budapest CD as
a good pointer towards non-commercial trance. If you want something a
bit harder and bangier, try Extreme Clubbing 2, a Torture Garden
compilation. It was being open to new music that created the goth scene
in the first place - oh how my friends laughed when I brought my shiny
new March Violets/Gene Loves Jezebel/Sisters stuff home.
But over on alt.trance. and uk.people.rave they have constant "volatile
debates" about whats trance/techno/house/psy-trance/d&b/acid.
I have only been to slimelight once but really enjoyed the techno floor
(oops, am I allowed to call it that?).
Mchatty
just back from holidees in Scotland hence rambling posts
Doktor Joy
did say:
>This whole thread is an intense bore. Wasn't it only a few weeks back
>when we went round exactly the same old "discussion" but from a slightly
>different angle?
UPG?
Repeat itself ad nauseum?
Surely you jest ;o)
Dok
(who might start posting again if a NEW thread turns up - a remark that I'm
sure will attract lots of 'why don't YOU start one then' comments)
--
Listen! Get This! Nobody with a GOOD car needs to be justified!
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http://www.crypt.demon.co.uk -= Justification: 72.48% =-
jannie
guy ruth hammond wrote:
> Some folk say that France would be a great country if it wasn't
> for the people,
may be they meant "big"???
> and goth would be a great scene if it wasn't for
> the music.
may be they meant "big" if people were a tad more open-minded??
cheers, gianf
jannie
> > why more people never went to Tenebrae,
>
> the Door Price is high for the length of time you are going to be in there,
> slimes...
don't forget the virtually non-existent selection of drinks at the bar (not
counting that your average watered-beer even runs out in the middle of the
battle...). Plus, music, never changes... Just good for a 'one-off' as a
tourist, nothing more...
cheers, gianf
jannie
I agree, It's far from perfect but we're trying to do the best with
> what we've got. If Tenebrae was packed out every week then the
> management would probably look into getting a bigger and better venue
> to cope with demand, but all they see is that there is no demand.
>
> If you can justify a bigger and better venue, then you'll get one.
hey, that's true. How about a monthly, 'quality', event then?
cheers, gianf
Karl
>> The Bar prices are more than overpriced,
> Nope - they're just overpriced ):oP
Okay compared to what I'm used to they are vastly
overpriced but then again I'm a stingy git like that ;)
No wonder I refuse do drink a GAY.
>> the Door Price is high for the length of
>> time you are going to be in there,
> Compared to what for fucks sake. It's DAMN
> cheap compared to most central London clubs
Okay fair enough for most central London clubs.
I give you that one. I was comparing it to Nationwide.
>> the seating in too little,
> It's got one of the highest seats-punters
> ratios I've seen in a west-end club. The
> more you have sitting, the less room there is
*blink blink* Well okay then. All I remember is thinking
"There's no where to blody sit and the damnplace only opened
ten minutes ago. Argh!"
>> the lighting is bad,
> What d'ya want? Bela Lughosi (techno remix)
> with full laser light show -
Yeah all right then. But if you could do it to Vengence
then that would be better. ;)
> fireworks maybe?
Yay! Can we Uncle Ben can we ;)
Karl
guy ruth hammond
> True… (Except for a few exemptions) but there was good goth music and
> even Guy is against/ hates that. [B] Just look at his reply to my
> posting? His comment was at a key goth song by the godfathers of goth.
Bauhaus had a couple of tunes, but that wasn't one of them. It's
boring to listen to and boring to dance to. Frankly, when there
are bands like Dreadful Shadows and Secret Discovery around, Bauhaus
are simply an embarrassment to the whole goth scene.
Alexander
>(who might start posting again if a NEW thread turns up - a remark that I'm
>sure will attract lots of 'why don't YOU start one then' comments)
Why don't you start one then? ;P
Steve Slimelight
> Which is exactly what I meant a few threads back when I was moaning
> about the music. I don't want Sisters, I can dance to that at the
> Calling any time, but things like SBM, Killing Miranda, and, yes,
> Pitchfork (a britgoth who will actually dance to it! ooo!) And Evil's
> Toy, and Beborn Beton, and loads of other stuff.
But other people do want the Sisters and the fact that we only play a
couple of their songs a week these days (as opposed to the 7 you used to
get some years back) is surely proof that we're trying plus I know that
Dave plays Killing Miranda (shock!), we all play PP, and the girls play
Evil's Toy and Beborn Beton (as do I once in a while).
There needs to be a mix of new and old, but I think new / recent stuff
should be a higher percentage than old stuff, but it's bloody hard to do
anything at Slimelight because whatever you do or play, at least someone
decides to moan about it.
There's so much semi-unkown old stuff that if I try to play it, everyone
walks out of the room, and the same with some of the newer bands that
get mentioned here. You dance to it, and I'll play it. Simple as that...
Anyway, I'm sure I've posted this in essence about 75,000 times before!
:-)
Alexander
For the reasons I've previously stated numbskull, hardly anyone will
get off their arses to turn up :P
Mat
>Bauhaus had a couple of tunes, but that wasn't one of them. It's
> boring to listen to and boring to dance to. Frankly, when there
> are bands like Dreadful Shadows and Secret Discovery around, Bauhaus
> are simply an embarrassment to the whole goth scene.
Thanks for your wonderful insight into what makes a goth band a good
band. Pity your opinions about Bauhause are not in keeping with most
goths idea about what makes good music. Hence you going on all the time
about how much you love Techno and how much you hate goth. Makes you a
bit of a troll me thinks… bugger that’s already been discussed on this
group.
Mat
************************************************
Can anyone who has visited this site give me
some feedback on if you have had trouble viewing
it? Cheers.
http://members.xoom.com/MathewDC/
************************************************
Mat
> I am sure you will agree that you won`t find good "goth" advertised on
> TV - its not really the place to look for good music.
Goes without saying. Goth hasn’t got the numbers for any large company
to try and make a profit from it.
> One of the Reactivate compilation CDs might give you some idea of the
> proper (IMO) trance scene. I would reccomend Nick Warren Budapest CD
as
> a good pointer towards non-commercial trance. If you want something a
> bit harder and bangier, try Extreme Clubbing 2, a Torture Garden
> compilation. It was being open to new music that created the goth
scene
> in the first place –
Nope… I would rather garrotte myself with rusty cheese-wire. I have
heard so much Trance, D&B, Hardhouse, Gabba (or anything ells that they
have made up) that I know what Techno sounds like and it sucks. Out of
tones of songs being made, only a handful I can handle listening too.
After popping my head into the new Purple Turtle some Sundays ago I had
the bad timing to appear when the DJs were being changed. To my delight
(sarc) I had come in just in time to get the git who played non stop
Techno… until I couldn’t handle anymore and so I left. The place for me
is now scared for life. The DJ makes Rex look good. :P
Also watching the Cybergoths starting to twitch and go into some
nervous dance kind of thing, made me wonder if there would be a Techno
scene without Speed at hand. I just can’t handle music that from one
track to another does not change beat. Now that is really boring to
listen too.
>But over on alt.trance. and uk.people.rave they have constant "volatile
> debates" about whats trance/techno/house/psy-trance/d&b/acid.
One good thing about this place is that the majority have decided not
to bother arguing what makes goth, goth and why Industrial is actually
Techno or metal as it all comes down to the individuals perception of
said music.
Mat
*********************************
http://members.xoom.com/MathewDC/
Blackbird
>
> > I certainly wouldn;t support the view that *Goth music* is somehow
> > holding the scene together.. becasue it doesn;t exist. Ultimately it's
> > *Goths* that perpetuate the scene.
>
> The scene is small and rather unhealthy… but things could get better…
> hopefully.
>
Thats Us!!
Small, rather unhealthy and could get better...
--
Guy
Dammerung website.. with added purple and some MP3's at:
Whisky Dave
Ben Wilson <B...@armoury1.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Y0TrWCAY...@armoury1.demon.co.uk...
<sniped stuff about gossips>
> Is it any wonder that there aren't many goth clubs?
>
So as some have stated how great the Goth scene is in Europe (Germany I
think was quoted)
couls someone inform me (and others) of the differencies between a
German/European club
and a UK one ,then maybe (with laws/legal status allowed for) how we can
emulate these
very well attended venues.
Only those that *have* been in 'foreign' Goth clubs need coment & compare.
>
Steve Slimelight
> > Is it any wonder that there aren't many goth clubs?
> >
>
> So as some have stated how great the Goth scene is in Europe (Germany I
> think was quoted)
> couls someone inform me (and others) of the differencies between a
> German/European club
> and a UK one ,then maybe (with laws/legal status allowed for) how we can
> emulate these
> very well attended venues.
>
> Only those that *have* been in 'foreign' Goth clubs need coment & compare.
It doesn't quite work like that.
The differences between the scenes have already been discussed.
It's not something that can be "fixed" over-night.
Whisky Dave
Alexander <alex...@twisted.org.uk> wrote in message
news:37da5e11...@mog.disintegration.org...
> On Wed, 01 Sep 1999 15:15:30 +0100, Clay Young <C.C....@lse.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >> The problem being is that advertising them is going to be a bastard as
> >
>
> Tenebrae has been advertised here, Tarts and sometimes sluts almost
> every time it's happened.
Excuse me but not all Goths that go to clubs are on the net.
Of the 4 or 5 people I know who regulary go to Tenebrae ask me if it's on
or not.
and I told them about the last T. they didn't know it was on (or weren't
sure.)
A few fliers down the slime's a good place and doesn't cost anything.
Maybe a special Tenebrae snail mailing list should be created.
I know the postage can get a bit expensive when you send out 200 or so.
> DJing (i.e. enough of a reason). I even stood outside the fox last
> Friday for an hour flyering.
A good idea,.
>
> However, the percentage of net.goths at any goth club/event (barring
> net.goth events) isn't all that much. At most, I'd say 20%, if that.
So your left with snail mail or telephone.
Could you (or someone) right a scripted that dials up a list of numbers
and using a form of reverse answer phone send people audio info down the
line about
the club.
A good elec eng project for a student but I guess you'll need it working
within 10 years so maybe not ;-)
Whisky Dave
Steve Slimelight <st...@slimelight.com> wrote in message
news:37CD3599...@slimelight.com...
>
> This whole thread is an intense bore. Wasn't it only a few weeks back
> when we went round exactly the same old "discussion" but from a slightly
> different angle?
There's nothing wrong with doing the same thing from a slightly different
angle is there? ;-)
Whisky Dave
Ben Wilson <B...@armoury1.demon.co.uk> wrote in message >
>Everyone slags off the Ballroom no end,
> but would still rather go there and slag it off. I think it's the goth-
> sheep mentallity.
Are you trying to imply that we have some black sheep in the family. ;-)
Whisky Dave
>
> Anyway, I'm sure I've posted this in essence about 75,000 times before!
> :-)
>
Just like playing the same old records isn't it ;-)
guy ruth hammond
> Thanks for your wonderful insight into what makes a goth band a good
> band. Pity your opinions about Bauhause are not in keeping with most
> goths idea about what makes good music.
clearly, the majority of goths *don't* like "good music" as you
put it, otherwise why would there be so many posts on the subject?
Ridley McIntyre
>Everyone slags off the Ballroom no end,
>but would still rather go there and slag it off. I think it's the goth-
>sheep mentallity.
I used to go to the Ballroom because I only lived around the corner, and it was
the perfect place to get hammered and dance to absolutely everything,
regardless of whether it was any good or not. In recollection, I think I'm one
of the sick bastards who actually ENJOYED the Ballroom...
-r.
Ridley McIntyre - Senior Editor, Maverick Dominion Group - ri...@aol.com
to reply: remove "batpants" - www.angelfire.com/md/maverickdominion
GIGO: Garbage In, Gorgeousness Out.
Doktor Joy
say:
>On Wed, 01 Sep 1999 14:44:24 GMT, Doktor Joy wrote:
>
>>(who might start posting again if a NEW thread turns up - a remark that I'm
>>sure will attract lots of 'why don't YOU start one then' comments)
>
>Why don't you start one then? ;P
I was hoping that by the time someone posted that question, I'd have thought
of a smug answer.
Damn.
Dok
Whisky Dave
> Whisky Dave wrote:
>
> > > Is it any wonder that there aren't many goth clubs?
> > >
> >
> > So as some have stated how great the Goth scene is in Europe (Germany I
> > think was quoted)
>
> The differences between the scenes have already been discussed.
> It's not something that can be "fixed" over-night.
So although it can't be changed the expectation is that Goths in the UK
should somehow be more likethose in Germany (as far as gig and club going
goes).
mmmmm.
Steve Slimelight
> > The differences between the scenes have already been discussed.
> > It's not something that can be "fixed" over-night.
>
> So although it can't be changed the expectation is that Goths in the UK
> should somehow be more likethose in Germany (as far as gig and club going
> goes).
>
> mmmmm.
No, I said it's not something that can be fixed over-night (the state of
the UK scene), I never said it CAN'T be changed - it's changed over the
years itself as it is! As has already been mentioned in other threads,
in Germany there is money behind the scene, big festivals etc, and
Leipzig for example was full of Germans as well as Americans, Italians,
Greeks, Scandanavians, French, Belgian, Austrian, Swiss, Spanish,
British, Irish etc etc etc.
silentmemory
>No, I said it's not something that can be fixed over-night
>(the state of the UK scene), I never said it CAN'T be
>changed - it's changed over the years itself as it is! As
>has already been mentioned in other threads, in Germany
>there is money behind the scene, big festivals etc, and
>Leipzig for example was full of Germans as well as
>Americans, Italians, Greeks, Scandanavians, French,
>Belgian, Austrian, Swiss, Spanish, British, Irish etc etc
If I might propose a theory:
Germany is far more accessible to mainland Europeans than
the tiny UK, which AFAIK still requires passports and such
to get in and out.
Being central and accessible, Germany might then be
considered a good place for major goth bands to play, and
the associated international music press coverage that
major bands get will alert the fans who will come from far
and wide to see a band which isn't playing their country.
More people means more money, which means bands can charge
more, which means other countries can't afford to host
them, which means they only play Germany.
More goth bands playing Germany means more money to be made
by the German goth press, which means more magazines,
coverage, and ultimately a larger fan base in that country.
That makes it an ideal place for goth bands to play...
On another note, and at the risk of offending millions of
people by making a sweeping generalisation, Germany isn't
exactly renown for its musical creativity. We, and the
Americans have a stranglehold on the World's (pop) music
market, so maybe the German youth are welcoming goth
because it's something they can actually do well and which
has an international market. It's also part of our quirky
UK nature to knock and shun things when they get popular.
No doubt someone will be along in a minute to tell me I'm
talking out of my arse, but I don't see how we, as a very
musically diverse island nation, will increase our scene
size simply by playing exactly what they do in Europe.
Slimelight isn't full of Europeans cos it plays European
goth, its full of tourists.
Anyway, I don't care if the scene doesn't grow, exclusivity
is part of its appeal.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Ben Wilson
<silentmemo...@darksite.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>On another note, and at the risk of offending millions of
>people by making a sweeping generalisation, Germany isn't
>exactly renown for its musical creativity.
But , then again, Daivd Hasslehoff is MASSIVE in Germany too, so....
I sometimes wonder why susch a lot of this *new* and *innovative* big on
the european scene stuff like Mesh, Wolfshieim, and even some Apop
sounds soooooooo like Vince Clarke's stuff ):o/
New goth=old eurobeat?
--
Ben 'Morgoth' Wilson
DJing @ Malice, Wag, Tenebrae,
WGW '99, Demonia '99
and now *** Glam Slam '99 ***
E-mail: dj...@armoury1.demon.co.uk
lilevilmandikinz
> Kieran wrote in message ...
> >Mat wrote:
> >>
> >>You keep on making these remarks about goth music? and how much you
> >>love your Techno. As many people would think, without goth music there
> >>would be no goths? makes me wonder why the hell you hang around here
>
> Does this mean I am banned from goth events? That I should shut down
> hattys Hostel for Lost Goths? That I should withdraw my support from
> most of the gothic events in Bham. And its not because blokey prefers
> the goth scene that I continue to "hang around" - he came later.
noooooooo!
i'd have no where to crash in b'ham then ;)
and i would't see abe and hatty!
;(
*wail* *moan*
*fall over in gothic folly fashion*[1]
*grin*
(hi lynne!)
mandy
not really here at all....
[1]whatever style that might be...[2]
[2]hand. staple.forehead is my personal favourite...
--
********************************************************************
"Damn! Hell makes a yummy bagel!"
Hatchet
<dok...@pennangalan.co.uk> said:
>>Why don't you start one then? ;P
>I was hoping that by the time someone posted that question, I'd have thought
>of a smug answer.
I already have a collection of smug answers prepared for just such an
occasion. I'm sure we can come to a mutually beneficial arrangement for
the use of one or more of them...
Hatchet >:)
--
**************************************************************************
*"The graveyard pallor was mandatory, and Gothick hair was by definition *
*black. Bobby knew that the few who couldn't warp their bodies to fit the*
*subcultural template were best avoided; a short Gothick was trouble, a *
*fat Gothick homicidal." Count Zero - William Gibson *
**************************************************************************
mr.mime
jannie <g.sc...@ic.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:37CDAC9D...@ic.ac.uk...
> > > I agree, I could never understand
> > > why more people never went to Tenebrae,
> >
overpriced,
> > the Door Price is high for the length of time you are going to be in
there,
> > slimes...
what.. £3 with a flyer is overpriced for 1-:30pm-3:30am... i don't think so
somehow?
bad lighting.. it's a goth club!!!!
i think you should try hte purple turtle in camden.. nice and clean, loads
of lights... plays no goth at all (so everyone can complain).
> don't forget the virtually non-existent selection of drinks at the bar
(not
> counting that your average watered-beer even runs out in the middle of the
> battle...).
beer on tap was pretty lame.. beer, cider in bottles and alcopops were
pretty varied though.
> Plus, music, never changes... Just good for a 'one-off' as a
> tourist, nothing more...
i think you'll find that the music changed to whatever people were dancing
to... there were guest dj's for quite a while, and i know for a fact that
ben will play music to suit the crowd....
mr.mime
mr.mime
>
> I sometimes wonder why susch a lot of this *new* and *innovative* big on
> the european scene stuff like Mesh, Wolfshieim, and even some Apop
> sounds soooooooo like Vince Clarke's stuff ):o/
>
> New goth=old eurobeat?
got it in one :)
but pauls comments about germany being part of mainland europe is totally
what me and others have been saying over the past few days... to
quote(roughly) 'if whitby was held on some distanant island of the north
coast of scotland i bet fuck all people would turn up' which basically
sumerisses why the festivals in england are soo much smaller than the ones
in germany, because there aren't enough people and therefore isn't enough
money.
mr.mie
mr.mime
> > :-)
> >
>
> Just like playing the same old records isn't it ;-)
couldn't you post it in german... at least that would be a step forward >:)
*ducks*
dan
Michael Johnson
>Germany is far more accessible to mainland Europeans than
>the tiny UK, which AFAIK still requires passports and such
>to get in and out.
Accessible, yes. But I don't think it's the paperwork that's the
problem. It's more to do with the fact that, on mainland Europe, you
can just get in a car/train/bus....and *go*. If you live in, say,
Holland, and there's a gig you'd like to see in Germany....what the
hell. It's only down the road. You don't need to fart about with ferry
tickets, sailing times, whatever. Your car's outside. Start it up and
drive. It's *that* simple.
>Being central and accessible, Germany might then be
>considered a good place for major goth bands to play, and
>the associated international music press coverage that
>major bands get will alert the fans who will come from far
>and wide to see a band which isn't playing their country.
Well.......I don't think it's necessarily true to say that bands tend
to play Germany *only* and ignore the other countries of mainland
Europe. In fact, I'd say the reverse is the case: most Euro-scene
bands make a point of touring all over the Continent, partly because
the scene is pretty strong (compared to the UK) *everywhere*, and
partly because the ease-of-travel thing which benefits the fans, also
benefits the bands....
I have here the tour dates for Project Pitchfork's 'Chakra Red' tour
of 1997. I'm just using this as an example because I have the dates
handy (in the CD insert!) The majority of the tour was indeed within
Germany. But there were other dates in Holland, France, Belgium,
Switzerland, Austria, and the Czech Republic. I'd say that spread of
dates/countries is fairly typical of most Euro-bands' touring
strategy. What was somewhat un-typical on this tour is that the band
also played London....with some Nemesis bloke, as I recall.....
>More people means more money, which means bands can charge
>more, which means other countries can't afford to host
>them, which means they only play Germany.
I don't think it's true to say that bands *only* play Germany, and the
Pitchies' dates bear this out. I dare say more recent examples of
Euro-wide tours could be found if anyone would care to look at a few
band-websites. Clan of Xymox, for example, were all over Europe in the
weeks running up to their recent London gig. Easy stuff for them. Just
load up the Transit and go. So, they did exactly that.....
Germany might be a top place for goff-stuff, but it's not the *only*
area where bands can do well. Compared to the UK, many other countries
of Europe also count as good 'uns.....
>On another note, and at the risk of offending millions of
>people by making a sweeping generalisation, Germany isn't
>exactly renown for its musical creativity. We, and the
>Americans have a stranglehold on the World's (pop) music
>market, so maybe the German youth are welcoming goth
>because it's something they can actually do well and which
>has an international market.
I think there are all sorts of socio-economic-cultural reasons why
goth is big in Germany and less-big elsewhere. I mean, in Germany
they *don't* have the NME!
>No doubt someone will be along in a minute to tell me I'm
>talking out of my arse, but I don't see how we, as a very
>musically diverse island nation, will increase our scene
>size simply by playing exactly what they do in Europe.
Well, that's probably true. The UK's socio-economic-cultural, er,
thing, is so different that it would take a pretty radical shift in
all sorts of areas to boost-up the UK goffscene to anything like the
level it's reached in Germany.
But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't at least try to *connect*.....
And who knows where that connection might lead....?
>Anyway, I don't care if the scene doesn't grow, exclusivity
>is part of its appeal.
But abject poverty, continual money-loss, and the constant frustration
that so much of what we try to do here in the UK scene is never quite
as good as it *should* be............is a BASTARD.
--
Uncle Nemesis > Michael Johnson > un...@globalnet.co.uk
Nemesis Promotions: Covenant. Some Euro-scene band, apparently...
http://www.nemesis.to
Michael Johnson
>Clay Young <C.C....@lse.ac.uk>
>wrote:
>>Mailing lists, real ones, can work wonders....
>Well, it's an idea I suppose. Although I'd say the priority would be
>to flyer the clubs properly, before we start a mailing list (more
>effort, more cost, potentially less gain).
There's always the mighty Nemesis Mailing list..... currently creeping
up to 3,000....
I'm always willing to bung extra flyers in my envelopes for any clubs,
etc, free, gratis and for nothing. The only slight glitch is that the
mail-outs are irregular - they happen at odd times when there are two
or three gigs in the works - but it's there if anyone wants it.
The *biggest* problem is, rather absurdly, getting sufficient flyers
off people to cover the whole list. When I mention the quantity
required, there's usually a short, stunned, silence, followed by a
comment such as, 'Er, well, I could probably let you have a couple of
hundred.....'
The thing is, flyers work on a 'throw enough mud at the wall and hope
some of it sticks' basis. So, for max effect, you really *have* to
think in terms of thousands, rather than hundreds. It's unscientific,
but there's *power* in them little bits of paper!
--
Uncle Nemesis > Michael Johnson > un...@globalnet.co.uk
Nemesis Promotions: Covenant....and....
http://www.nemesis.to
Gothpat
<silent...@darksite.freeserve.co.uk> had this to say:
>Alexander wrote:
>>I think it's rather ironic that the people who are
>>complaining about not enough Goth are the ones you'll
>>never find at Tenebrae, at least not regularly
>
>Bzzt, wrong.
I always like Tenebrae.
But, getting a job with long hours and having to work a portion of
Saturdays (and staying aware and awake) seemed to keep me from a few
Tenebraes...and it got worse instead of better (working some weekends
both days).
>
>>If you don't like the place, then vote with your feet and
>>don't go there. I believe it's the same people that all go
>>to the Ballroom and bitch about the techno there... :P
>
I don't go to the Ballroom if I can help it.
I've had an OK time most times, but find the atmosphere is sometimes
not to my liking.
It has more to do with stuff other than the music played.
>>We're lacking London goths at Malice Underground too these
>>day. It appears goths can only drum up the energy when
>>they have something to whinge about.
>
>Strike three, you're out. London goths don't flock to
>Malice because it's midweek and we've all got jobs.
This is the main reason me and a lot of people I know don't go.
I get up at 6:30 am-the thought of functioning on 3-4 hours of sleep
doesn't appeal to me.
>getting home after the club closes is a nightmare if you
>don't want to fork out for a taxi.
>
It's over 10UKp for us to get home...actually closer to 12.
Add admission, drinks, etc, and this is costly-especially if done on a
regular basis.
Maybe Bratcave needs to rear its head again...
GothPat
Steve Slimelight
mr.mime wrote:
so please explain how in 1990 The Mission played to 10,000 at Wembley Arena,
The Nephilim did 2 nights at Brixton Academy to 6,000 people, Siouxsie sold
out the Royal Albert Hall for 2 days. Ghost Dance, Red Lorry Yellow Lorry,
Rose Of Avalanche, Balaam and The Angel, The Bolshoi could all sell out The
Astoria? Oh and all of them reached the top of the indie charts, and some of
them had top 20 hits in the "proper" charts?
Germany, and other areas of mainland Europe *still* have this, *but* with
modern bands.
And please explain how the "biggest" goth band in the 1990s "Rosetta Stone"
never even sold out The Marquee?
It's a case of the scene died a death here, but there it didn't, and THAT'S
what we're talking about...
Steve.
--
"In the middle of the night, you don't know what I'm thinking, but the stars
still sparkle and shine.
Mel
> >Germany is far more accessible to mainland Europeans than
> >the tiny UK, which AFAIK still requires passports and such
> >to get in and out.
>
> Accessible, yes. But I don't think it's the paperwork that's the
> problem. It's more to do with the fact that, on mainland Europe, you
> can just get in a car/train/bus....and *go*. If you live in, say,
> Holland, and there's a gig you'd like to see in Germany....what the
> hell. It's only down the road. You don't need to fart about with ferry
> tickets, sailing times, whatever. Your car's outside. Start it up and
> drive. It's *that* simple.
And I'll say it again - it's the attitude inherent in an island race.
Xenophobia and a siege mentality.
<big snip>
/Mel/
NP: THE PASSAGE - BRD USA DDR JFK
Pete Scathe
> Apart from that, we have
>> the upcoming 'Heresy' @ electrowrkz which has now had it's name
>> changed to 'Disassembly' starting october 1st.
>
>...which, of course, clashes with Exile. Time for some trips down the A3,
>then... got any future dates to hand, Mr Scathe?
>
I'm not sure yet- the next Resurgence is the 12th, but after that it's
all a bit hazy. I'll definitely have the October date sorted soon, as I
need to have it by next week.
So, anyone know of anything which clashes with October 3rd?
That's the current most likely date...
--
Pete Scathe (Next Resurgence: 12th September)
club info & daft haircuts: http://www.scathe.demon.co.uk/
Whisky Dave
Mel <mel@cix...co...uk> wrote in message
news:memo.1999090...@mel.compulink.co.uk...
So it's nothing to do with finances and ease of travel?.
I've know a few Germans that used to visit me their main complaint
was the time it took to reach London. They prefered the slimelight to *any*
german club they had attended. (they lived in dissuldolph(sp)).
They always used to say they could cross most of Europe by the time they
crossed the channel and then to London.
They (as a whole) were far better off finacialy than Goths in the UK.
How many UK Goths could afford to go to Europe every month,
how many could run a white BMW sports car (and claim it's Goth).
They used to think nothing of traveling miles to a club, the limiting
factor
in there jounts was TIME. They thought nothing of traveling 50 miles to a
club
taking themn about 30-45 mins at max.
I took them to the ballroom once and told them to leave the car behind.
Leavinbg at 2:30am getting two night buses home we arrived at around 4:30am
They understood why I'd given up going every week, and they admitted they
would not
spend 2 hours getting to or from a club like that.
Kevin O' Gorman
>
> And I'll say it again - it's the attitude inherent in an island race.
> Xenophobia and a siege mentality.
So that's why all our tourist brochures describe us as "island of
a thousand welcomes". Thanks Mel.
K.
-
--
Kevin O' Gorman: bloody tourist.
Whisky Dave
>
> And please explain how the "biggest" goth band in the 1990s "Rosetta
Stone"
> never even sold out The Marquee?
>
> It's a case of the scene died a death here, but there it didn't, and
THAT'S
> what we're talking about...
The scene is over 15 years old here!
It's a bit like askiing why bands covering Rock 'n' roll don't do well.
The scene has moved on in the UK it's changed.
To sit and mope in the corner to be Gothic seems to be of little interst
to the majority of UK teenagers they seem to have moved on to perkier
things such as
'tecno' flourescent and sparkley bits.
It seems Germany is still in the late 80s early 90s musically.
Another thing as I have pointed out before is that a Germans can come to
London and claim dole money almost immidiatly.
A UK Goth going to Germany has to wait 1-2 years I believe.
I think we all know why London is so full of Europeans studing because they
can easily
get grants to study here.
(I even know a portuguse that gets more money in London from the dole, they
they can claim in portigal)
aN English friend of mine is living in Spain, he can't claim dole, he's
working 12 hours/day
teaching and can just afford a flat, he's been doing this for over a year
but he's
still not eledgble to claim 'dole money. I have a quite a few spanish
friends.
They can not only claim dole but housing benifit too, of which they save
and can
afford to go back to Spain about 3-4 times a year.
Steve Slimelight
> How did "Rosetta Stone" do in Europe then?.
Not amazingly well. They only ever played there a few times, I believe
they did 2 gigs in France, and one festival in Germany. Obviously, they
did have fans there, but why their management never pushed them in the
mainland, I'll never quite understand.
> > It's a case of the scene died a death here, but there it didn't, and
> THAT'S
> > what we're talking about...
> The scene is over 15 years old here!
as it is there... your point?
> It's a bit like askiing why bands covering Rock 'n' roll don't do well.
don't agree.
Would you say that about metal?
A scene that has changed, still exists, and hasn't been decimated...
> The scene has moved on in the UK it's changed.
as it has there, but there is has survived and mutated, and not got
smaller, whereas here it has mutated and everyone bitches about it!
> To sit and mope in the corner to be Gothic seems to be of little interst
> to the majority of UK teenagers they seem to have moved on to perkier
> things such as
> 'tecno' flourescent and sparkley bits.
this also exists there.
> It seems Germany is still in the late 80s early 90s musically.
rubbish. absolute rubbish.
Their charts are full of much of the same crap we have here (both
mainstream and indie), but they also *still* have a strong dark
alternative scene, but it's not the *same* as it was there 15 years ago
either , how could it be?
> Another thing as I have pointed out before is that a Germans can come to
> London and claim dole money almost immidiatly.
> A UK Goth going to Germany has to wait 1-2 years I believe.
> I think we all know why London is so full of Europeans studing because they
> can easily
> get grants to study here.
Surely, this is another discussion entirely!???
Steve.
--
"In the middle of the night, you don't know what I'm thinking, but the
stars still sparkle and shine
mel
> > > Accessible, yes. But I don't think it's the paperwork that's the
> > > problem. It's more to do with the fact that, on mainland Europe,
> > > you
> > > can just get in a car/train/bus....and *go*. If you live in, say,
> > > Holland, and there's a gig you'd like to see in Germany....what
> > > the
> > > hell. It's only down the road. You don't need to fart about with
> > > ferry
> > > tickets, sailing times, whatever. Your car's outside. Start it up
> > > and
> > > drive. It's *that* simple.
> >
> > And I'll say it again - it's the attitude inherent in an island
> > race.
> > Xenophobia and a siege mentality.
>
> So it's nothing to do with finances and ease of travel?.
That too, but to a lesser extent I think. It doesn't actually cost a
great deal to get to mainland europe these days. I'm sure that -bat or
Marge will be along in a minute to give the definitive costs.
--
/Mel/ (at work)
mel
> > And I'll say it again - it's the attitude inherent in an island
> > race.
> > Xenophobia and a siege mentality.
>
> So that's why all our tourist brochures describe us as "island of
> a thousand welcomes". Thanks Mel.
Do they? Then they're bigger liars than estate agents, IMHO. Hang on
though, you're talking about Ireland, yes? I was talking about mainland
UK, in which case I guess I should modify my earlier statement. In fact,
thinking about it, I should rewrite it completely, and in doing so lose
the plot entirely. Bugger.
NURSE!
--
/Mel/ (at work)
hatty
lilevilmandikinz wrote in message
<1999090218...@10-245.thmax-5.dial.ftech.co.uk>...
>hatty <ha...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Does this mean I am banned from goth events? That I should shut down
>> hattys Hostel for Lost Goths? That I should withdraw my support from
>> most of the gothic events in Bham. And its not because blokey prefers
>> the goth scene that I continue to "hang around" - he came later.
>noooooooo!
>i'd have no where to crash in b'ham then ;)
:-) And I would lose all opportunity to subliminally change the future
of goth with my subtle playing of all things te*chn* if I closed the
hostel down.
>and i would't see abe and hatty!
>;(
Its Abes birthday soon and her party is being planned - you will of
course be invited.
So, are you coming up to Bham, centre of the gothic universe, in the
near future?
hatty
Alexander
>> The scene has moved on in the UK it's changed.
>
>as it has there, but there is has survived and mutated, and not got
>smaller, whereas here it has mutated and everyone bitches about it!
When a scene changes, it becomes something different, albeit similar,
but you can't expect people to like the new scene.
It's like expecting Iron Maiden fans to like Korn, and vice versa.
Some will like both, some will like Korn and not Maiden, and some will
like Maiden and not Korn.
The same with the goth scene, some like the old stuff and the new
stuff, some don't like the old stuff and some don't like the new
stuff.
--
~Alexander : Exigo a me non ut optimis par sim, sed ut malis melior
DJing at Malice Underground, Club Tenebrae & Heresy (Electrowerkz)
URL: http://www.alexander.darkwave.org.uk/ ICQ: 6165829
Kevin O' Gorman
[snippety]
> I was talking about mainland
> UK, in which case I guess I should modify my earlier statement. In fact,
> thinking about it, I should rewrite it completely, and in doing so lose
> the plot entirely. Bugger.
"Fog in Channel - Continent cut off."
> NURSE!
Saucy!
--
Kevin O' Gorman: a right bastard.
Whisky Dave
mel <mel@cix...co...uk> wrote in message
news:memo.19990903...@mel.cix.co.uk...
> d.wil...@elec.qmw.ac.uk (Whisky Dave) wrote:
>
> >
> > So it's nothing to do with finances and ease of travel?.
>
> That too, but to a lesser extent I think. It doesn't actually cost a
> great deal to get to mainland europe these days. I'm sure that -bat or
> Marge will be along in a minute to give the definitive costs.
That's an idea lets have a costing of how much it'll cost
to get to various Euro events.
Liepzig(sp)
Reading (as an example of UK)
For info how far is liepzig (Miles KM)
Then compare the cost of traveling that distance in the UK with that in
German.
Then comparing traveling costs
Then drinking eating out costs.
Whisky Dave
> Whisky Dave wrote:
>
> > How did "Rosetta Stone" do in Europe then?.
>
> Not amazingly well. They only ever played there a few times, I believe
> they did 2 gigs in France, and one festival in Germany. Obviously, they
> did have fans there, but why their management never pushed them in the
> mainland, I'll never quite understand.
Maybe they weren't really good enough to make it in the Goth scene then.
'Our' 'And also the trees ' did far better in Europe than in the UK.
>
> > The scene is over 15 years old here!
> as it is there... your point?
That Goth happend here before it took root in Germany.
> > It's a bit like askiing why bands covering Rock 'n' roll don't do well.
> don't agree.
> Would you say that about metal?
> A scene that has changed,
How has it changed?
To, thrash metal, Black metal
>still exists, and hasn't been decimated...
>
> > The scene has moved on in the UK it's changed.
>
> as it has there, but there is has survived and mutated, and not got
> smaller, whereas here it has mutated and everyone bitches about it!
bitching because it has changed or because people have been forced to
change in to it?.
> > It seems Germany is still in the late 80s early 90s musically.
>
> rubbish. absolute rubbish.
> Their charts are full of much of the same crap we have here (both
> mainstream and indie), but they also *still* have a strong dark
> alternative scene, but it's not the *same* as it was there 15 years ago
> either , how could it be?
Then how about the social culture of Germany (mainly the large cities)
I was on the bus to slimes of the apporx 25 on the bus I was the only white
person.
I.e all others were of indian/asian/west indian/nigerian origin.
What do you think the prefered music genre is there.
Would you see that in Germany?.
IIRC None Germans aren't even allowed to own property in German unless they
gain
a form of citizenship[1]
Walthamstow the schools ar 80-90% non white.
This does, and will influence the types of music the kids are listen to.
London and other major cities in the UK are very multi-cultural
far more than say Germany and other Euro cities.
The music following in the UK is more likely to be standard pop
followed by what is usually describe as 'black music'
Why do you thing that Tentaba is pushed out on Fridays?
> > Another thing as I have pointed out before is that a Germans can come
to
> > London and claim dole money almost immidiatly.
> > A UK Goth going to Germany has to wait 1-2 years I believe.
> > I think we all know why London is so full of Europeans studing because
they
> > can easily
> > get grants to study here.
>
> Surely, this is another discussion entirely!???
It's about opportunities in other countries.(or the lack of them)
If a 'European' wants to come to London they only have to be able support
themselves for up to a month. If your British and you want to do the same
you have to be able to support yourself for a number of years before you
have the right to free money.
This makes it more difficult for the young to travel throught Europe.
It's all about the ease of traveling around a particular area and the cost.
Also the languages can be a problem.
We aren't taught foreign languages here the same way they are taught in
Europe.
[1] Having been told you have to work or live there for 5 years before
applying.
Steve Slimelight
Whisky Dave wrote:
<snip>
I'm really not quite sure what you're trying to say to be honest.
Germany is full of Turks, Greeks, and all sorts.
France has a big arabic population.
Holland has a hot pot mixture too.
I don't know too much about the make up of each European country's
population, but I personally think to try and pin it down to "colour" is
naive at best.
I'm giving up on this thread.
felidae
surprise when a corpse jumped out of the shower and proclaimed:
>> > So it's nothing to do with finances and ease of travel?.
>>
>> That too, but to a lesser extent I think. It doesn't actually cost a
>> great deal to get to mainland europe these days.
>
89 pounds return (train) to Cologne. 80 by plane to Amsterdam. Cheaper by
carload via Tunnel. That the Channel is a deterrent is complete bollox IMO.
The reasons I've had from some Brits for not going over ranges from lack of
planning/ budgeting, not used to traveling abroad, misconception that it is
too far, and general laziness. This year, however, has shown a vast
improvement in numbers of people going over and next year will hopefully
see a steady increase.
>That's an idea lets have a costing of how much it'll cost
>to get to various Euro events.
>
Not much more (even less) than I had previously spent on Whitby. Travel
time is also quite the same. London- Whitby for me was always about 7 hours
from my home to final destination. I can't afford to just jump up and head
for an event. I budget myself. I used to for Whitby (off my list now due to
having much more fun at continental events). I am now budgeting for 2000. I
may not end up going to Zillo or whatever next year, however I do plan for
it now. Or rather I'm planning on attending 2-3 Continental events next
year. I also look at it as a holiday, after all I do have to use my holiday
time to go there.
Right, where's me Abacus........
Calculating this on the average expenses I have had (travel, accomodations,
tickets, food/drink):
My past Whitby expenses equalled a maximum of 210 quid total over 4 days.
Dining and drink quickly adds up there.
Expenses : 210
My own fun factor rating: 7 out of 10 (averaged over various Whitby's)
Leipzig Festival:
http://www.wave-gotik-treffen.de
Tickets 30 Quid, Flights about 140 Quid return (LHR-Frankfurt-Leipzig). Can
be done cheaper via Amsterdam I think, Camping free or hotel about 80 quid
(4 nights). Travel time, 7 hours total including +1 hour difference.
Distance from London ( a lot fucking further than Whitby). Add to that food
and booze expenses which were quite low. The first night we spent from
23:00 till 03:00 in a cool looking pub. Had a variety of large brews, were
allowed to mix up our own drinks by the bar, were given a free round of
Peach schnaps, and rolled out of the place having only spent a max of 7
pounds each. Leipzig offered me 4 days and nights of non-stop partying and
entertainment. Travel throughout the city is FREE on public transport for
festival goers. Eating out was cheap and the booze prices in town rock
bottom and there was an incredibly cool (no pun) chill out area in the
Medieval Market at the Moritzbastei.
So if you include Hotel you could budget for maybe 300 quid, much less if
you camp out. I spotted at least 25 UK peops there (plus another 8 I don't
personally know) and we all had an absolutely wild fun time despite the
organisational chaos that accompanied the festival. And with 20,000
visitors it was quite easy to meet new friends and have even more
(linguistic) fun.
Expenses : under 280 pounds
My own fun factor rating: 9 out of 10
Zillo Festival:
http://www.netcity.de/zillo/
Flights 120 to Hanover, 10 pounds for train return Hanover - Hildesheim,
Festival Tix about 30. Travel time maybe 7 hours including +1 hour
difference due to additional train travel. Camping included with ticket. 3
days of entertainment (2 official festival days). Good selection of food,
good on-site beer prices and great stalls. Cons are that it is getting too
large (daily count of 12,000 in 97, 30,000 in 98). This year apparently was
not as mental and the line-up had less non-goth/industrial compared to last
year. Didn't go myself this year as Zillo offered 2 bands I wanted to see,
and Eurorock, the weekend before, 12. No contest.
Expenses : under 180 pounds
My own fun factor rating: 8 out of 10
Eurorock Neerpelt:
http://users.skynet.be/eurorock/index.html
Eurostar to Brussel, cheap weekend ticket to Neerpelt, total travel cost
return 75 quid for me, but more like 89 quid for the average traveler.
Festival tix 31 quid for 3 days. Camping 10 quid total. Total cost 116 quid
plus some food/ booze expenses. Travel time 6 hours including +1 hour
difference. It's easy to get to, cheap and this year had a bluddy great
line-up. Eurorock 99 was damn well worth it for me.
Expenses : under 100 pounds
My own fun factor rating: 7 out of 10 (could have been 9, but they lost
points on severe lack of vegetarian food)
Hallowmas Toronto:
http://www.stainedproductions.com/hallowmas/latest.html
My dearest and furthest venture. Tickets 30 for several days of fun.
Flights will prolly cost 230 per person . Hotel for 5 nights another 120
maybe. I'm going because it sounds like good fun, the organisers are bluddy
great people. I know Toronto quite well, so it's still like a holiday as I
don't have to think hard about where to get things or how to get there.
Hey, there's a fecking Ocean as a deterrent and it's not stopping me.
Expenses and fun rating: To be evalued when I get there.
>Then compare the cost of traveling that distance in the UK with that in
>Germany.
>
Cheap by car. I went up to Hamburg from Cologne by car with some friends
and my share was 20 DM (6.90 pounds). I went back by train on a sunday
morning Intercity ticket which was 69 DM. A normal one-way fare Hamburg to
Cologne would have cost me 130 DM at other times.
My friend who drove thinks nothing of driving the 400 KM up to Hamburg for
a weekend. I had planned to go to Dresden for the Orkus festival, but could
not afford the 250 DM train fare (83 quid).
Then there's ease of travelling. Train prices in Germany *are* getting as
disgusting as UK prices. I used to think nothing of simply catching a train
somewhere in Germany a few years ago. This year was a shock. However, at
least trains are nowhere as chaotic as here. At least I know exactly what
trains to take and when and how it goes and not worry. The DB webserver
will even tell me what track at which Station to go to. Try that on a UK
rail info system. IME it is much easier to plan if I wanna go to some event
within Germany. The shite rail system here nearly discourages me from doing
that. The only convenience I can see here in the southeast is trains to
Brighton or the Oxford Bus. I also can't find enough people in the UK to
carpool to events. This is something quite often organised amongst German
net.goths.
>Then drinking eating out costs.
>
In Germany a fraction of that in the UK (ok, London). My meals in Cologne
were mostly the same in DM as I would pay in pounds. So basically one-third
to one-half of what I would pay in London. And yes, this is a comparison
based on my UK wages, but also calculated on my friends wages in Germany
who earns the same amount.
I think going over to the festivals is no greater expense or effort as
going to a UK event. All it takes is a bit of willpower and some saving up.
It's damn well worth it.
felidae
Gothpat
wanted to be God) had this to say:
> the choice of food
>is unparalled. compared to new orleans where there was very little
>choice (!!!)
I have to disagree about New Orleans.
There are lots of great places to eat in the French Quarter-many of
them focusing on fresh seafood.
The factors I found that were trouble for C5 were that it was a
holiday weekend, and lots of places were shut, especially on Easter
Sunday-and the fact that John dislikes most shellfish and fish.
The sushi place was ace, though, and thanks goes to Marge for finding
it and organising a lunch there!
GothPat
Jodi
>>> That too, but to a lesser extent I think. It doesn't actually cost a
>>> great deal to get to mainland europe these days.
>>
>89 pounds return (train) to Cologne. 80 by plane to Amsterdam. Cheaper by
>carload via Tunnel. That the Channel is a deterrent is complete bollox IMO.
>The reasons I've had from some Brits for not going over ranges from lack of
>planning/ budgeting, not used to traveling abroad, misconception that it is
>too far, and general laziness. This year, however, has shown a vast
>improvement in numbers of people going over and next year will hopefully
>see a steady increase.
Myself and a few other people are going to try to make it to a
continental festival next year, but the problem is cost/time going from
Britain outside London/the south east. I live in Bristol. Bristol
"international" airport[1] a) doesn't offer flights to anywhere
interesting on the Continent, just top business and tacky holiday
destinations, and b) even if they did, you'll never get a cheap flight.
Ferry may be cheap from Dover-Calais, but I was trying to get to the
west of France this year[2], and discovered that ferry from Portsmouth
or Poole to anywhere costs _at least_ 200 squid, even between a full car
load of people that's not cheap. Driving to Dover and then back across
France would have added at least a day to our journey (though going to
Germany and points east it wouldn't).
Jodi
[1] I laughed sooo hard the first time I saw that sign
[2] So, I have a friend who owns a cottage with vinyard etc.
--
as a matter of fact, I do own the dance floor
Jodi
[hallowmass in toronto]
>just saw this as well. im planning on going too, if i can muster up
>the work in october to pay for it.
I'm so pathetic I have yet to make a festival in Toronto even though I
have numerous free places to stay and get fed.
>toronto last year for C4 was a blast. mightve been a bit on the steamy
>side being mid august but it should be cooler now.
Any time after mid September should be fine. I once arrived back at the
beginning of September for uni. expecting it to be cool and walked out
of the airport into 29-degree plus humidity heat. (The fact that my
friends turned up to pick me up wearing shorts should have been a
tip-off).
> the choice of food is unparalled.
Did you by any chance experience the Ethiopian restaurant? That's one
of my favourites.
> compared to new orleans where there was very little
>choice (!!!) i really enjoyed toronto. terribly cosmopolitan,
>realtively inexpensive, compact enough to get around and with good
>public transport.
It is, isn't it!
I'm going through one of my missing Toronto and wanting to move back
there phases.
> drinks laws are very odd though,
One of the great Toronto downers, and leftovers from the days when
Toronto was populated mostly by very uptight white anglo-saxon
protestants!
> and alcohol is not cheap.
It's not terribly expensive, especially beer, if you buy it at a liquor
store rather than a bar, but of course said shops are far apart and
probably nowhere near your hotel. Also, the fact that you have to buy
beer in one shop and other sorts of alcohol in another makes life even
more difficult and annoying. An you can't buy beers singly, a six-pack
is the smallest unit you can get.
I don't really even drink much[1], but Ontario liquor laws can still
make me rant lots...
Jodi
Jodi
>felidae wrote:
>
>>I also can't find enough people in the UK to
>>carpool to events.
>
>just wait til i pass my test. i am goign to go carpool mad! :)
>
I know what felidae means though. Whenever we're planning a road trip,
we offer lifts to all and sundry and half the time no one takes us up on
it. And that's only as far afield as places like London or Birmingham.
Phildo
Whisky Dave <d.wil...@elec.qmw.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:7qlln1$2am$1...@beta.qmw.ac.uk...
> Could you (or someone) right a scripted that dials up a list of numbers
> and using a form of reverse answer phone send people audio info down the
> line about
> the club.
>
Already available. They use it for telemarketing over here.
I had one call me last week extolling the wonderful benefits bringing Chr*st
into my life would bring me. Damn yanks just won't let up. If you thought
the JWs were bad try being over here with the TV evangelism, constant
harassment from scientologists and the rest, live worship channels on the TV
and all the rest of the crap. Time to put my "I shoot every 10th Jehovahs
witness - do you feel lucky punk?" sign on my new apartment door.
Sorry, I'm ranting. Still, the most cost effective way of marketing Tenebrae
would be to send out a mailing list putting maybe 10 flyers in each letter
and asking the people to pass them out round their friends.The only problem
is compiling the list in the first place although maybe it would be worth
doing anyway so that everyone could use it (Uncle New, Slimes, anyone else
with an event to promote).
--
Phildo
ICQ 15290022
Remove my pants to reply
Whisky Dave
The Girl who wanted to be God <god...@twisted.org.uk> wrote in message
news:37d43416...@news.demon.co.uk...
> felidae wrote:
>
>
> i found this at last years festival.
> belgium has got to be the worst place for vegetarians, vegans dont
> stand a chance really, unless 3 days of chip buttys will suffice you.
I thought they fried all their chips in horse fat.
Whisky Dave
>
>
> Whisky Dave wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> I'm really not quite sure what you're trying to say to be honest.
>
> Germany is full of Turks, Greeks, and all sorts.
> France has a big arabic population.
> Holland has a hot pot mixture too.
But none of those 'groups' are very musicaly inclind as regrads venues or
sales
of CD, records whatever.
Take a look at 'our' chart records and the 'range' of music that is played.
No compare that to other countries.
> I don't know too much about the make up of each European country's
> population, but I personally think to try and pin it down to "colour" is
> naive at best.
Not just colour, but the way the music is put acroos by the media.
The fashion, look at what a stron hols the GAP, Addidas, Nike, has over our
'youth' and compare that to the rest of europe.
'Our' music scene is much closer to America than to europe.
Steve Slimelight
--
Darksun
Phildo wrote in message ...
>
>Whisky Dave <d.wil...@elec.qmw.ac.uk> wrote in message
>news:7qlln1$2am$1...@beta.qmw.ac.uk...
>> Could you (or someone) right a scripted that dials up a list of numbers
>> and using a form of reverse answer phone send people audio info down the
>> line about
>> the club.
>>
>Already available. They use it for telemarketing over here.
>
I guess it's used more in the US due to free local calls (arrgh not fair,
imagine what my net usage could be).
It would hardly cost anything to phone up all numbers in an area code and
try all sell whatever you are selling to them.
- Darksun
Whisky Dave
Nathalie <n.ma...@qmw.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:slrn7t9frk.3v...@gadolinium.qmw.ac.uk...
> On Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:06:30 +0100, Whisky Dave wrote:
> >Steve Slimelight <st...@slimelight.com> wrote in message
> >> France has a big arabic population.
> >> Holland has a hot pot mixture too.
> >But none of those 'groups' are very musicaly inclind as regrads venues
or
> >sales
> >of CD, records whatever.
> >Take a look at 'our' chart records and the 'range' of music that is
played.
>
> population in France is extremely music inclined and has an extremely big
> influence on the music scene.
So when was the last Arabic music festival in France?.
and a when was the lasy Goth one.
There is a massive indian film market in the UK but when was one last on
mainstream TV.
> And I won't start on how much it has shaped French everyday speech.
It's not that different.
> Caribbean music is also a big part of the French music scene and does
> influence fashion a bit.
This is eactly what I was saying that if the youth of the country are
diverted musicly
in to another direction then there's going to be less Goth.
Goth sort of came about (via punk) because of the crap disco scene that
mostly came from America.
Without that crap scene to rebel against we'd still be listening to Status
Quo.
lorralie
felidae@katze*friedtofu*.demon.co.uk (felidae) wrote:
>Hallowmas Toronto:
>http://www.stainedproductions.com/hallowmas/latest.html
>My dearest and furthest venture. Tickets 30 for several days of fun.
Erm, just to clarify that £30 will cover the meet & greet luncheon, *3*
nights of clubbing and bands including what sounds like a fab Halloween
Costume Ball, _and_ the Hallowmas Sunday brunch. The pre & post-event
parties on Thurdsay and Monday nights have free admission and the ticket
for all 3 club nights costs Cdn$30/£12. How's that for good value?!
>Flights will prolly cost 230 per person.
Am still working on this one, but at the moment the best we've found is
approx. £259+tax on BA through Trailfinders. Air Canada is around the 280+
mark. Still holding out for something a bit cheaper though, because there
_will_ be special offers!
>Hotel for 5 nights another 120
Here he's talking about per person since it's Cdn99/£40 per night at Days
Inn, the official hotel. Hey, ya gotta be where it's happening & prolly
couldn't get anything much cheaper anyway! *_~
>I'm going because it sounds like good fun, the organisers are bluddy
>great people.
Yup, we met Sheryl & Greg last year and they're supa-sweet!
>Expenses and fun rating: To be evaluated when I get there.
C4 was a success, so there's no reason why this venture won't be too! The
fun rating should be as high as da bloody sky and most of the expenses for
you will be covered above. It's not so simple for *me* though since there's
John Fluevog, Fashion Crimes, Shoppers Drug Mart & MAC (makeupwhore
central), etc. #^_^#
C'mon Marge, you _have_ to go! Any others??!!?
Spreadin' the Hallowmas gospel,
-lorralie
Jodi
>>Flights will prolly cost 230 per person.
>
>Am still working on this one, but at the moment the best we've found is
>approx. £259+tax on BA through Trailfinders. Air Canada is around the 280+
>mark. Still holding out for something a bit cheaper though, because there
>_will_ be special offers!
Try Canadian Affair (can't remember the exact URL) for super cheap
flights to Canada, especially for last-minute bookings.
>C4 was a success, so there's no reason why this venture won't be too! The
>fun rating should be as high as da bloody sky and most of the expenses for
>you will be covered above. It's not so simple for *me* though since there's
>John Fluevog, Fashion Crimes, Shoppers Drug Mart & MAC (makeupwhore
>central), etc. #^_^#
Fashion Crimes? Help, I'm homesick now.
Not that I could ever afford to buy anything there.
>C'mon Marge, you _have_ to go! Any others??!!?
It's tempting, if I could find a cheap enough flight.
Peter Constantine
>Goth sort of came about (via punk) because of the crap disco scene that
>mostly came from America.
I always considered punk (hence goth) to be more a reaction to bombastic
dinosaur rock bands (Yes, Floyd, Genesis, Zeppelin etc.) who were mostly of
British origin. The punk rock audience was filched from prog rock stadium
gigs not from Saturday Night Fever style discotheques.
x
[You may now post a long list of classic punk anthems on anti-disco
themes to prove me wrong!]
Jodi
>Whisky Dave wrote:
>
>>Goth sort of came about (via punk) because of the crap disco scene that
>>mostly came from America.
>
>I always considered punk (hence goth) to be more a reaction to bombastic
>dinosaur rock bands (Yes, Floyd, Genesis, Zeppelin etc.) who were mostly of
>British origin. The punk rock audience was filched from prog rock stadium
>gigs not from Saturday Night Fever style discotheques.
my understanding is that the above is true, but there were punk or
proto-punk bands in the US first - like the Ramones and New York Dolls
etc.
>[You may now post a long list of classic punk anthems on anti-disco
> themes to prove me wrong!]
I have vague memories of a song whose chorus went "You'll dance to
anything" Anybody know what that was?
I can't think of any at the mo, but I'm sure there are some. But disco
was an easy target.
Peter Constantine
>...there were punk or proto-punk bands in the US first - like the Ramones and >New York Dolls etc.
Quite true... but were these US proto-punk bands kicking out against 70s
disco or a counter to 70s AOR? Personally I think The Ramones and the Dolls
were really just following in the footsteps of earlier bands like The
Stooges and MC5 whose mission seems to have been to replace some of that
hippy 'love + peace' crap with something a little more dangerous...
x
Mel
> >>Goth sort of came about (via punk) because of the crap disco scene
> that
> >>mostly came from America.
> >
> >I always considered punk (hence goth) to be more a reaction to
> bombastic
> >dinosaur rock bands (Yes, Floyd, Genesis, Zeppelin etc.) who were
> mostly of
> >British origin. The punk rock audience was filched from prog rock
> stadium
> >gigs not from Saturday Night Fever style discotheques.
>
> my understanding is that the above is true, but there were punk or
> proto-punk bands in the US first - like the Ramones and New York Dolls
> etc.
Yup. The Americans invented it, we showed 'em what it really meant. Bit of
a change really.
> >[You may now post a long list of classic punk anthems on anti-disco
> > themes to prove me wrong!]
>
> I have vague memories of a song whose chorus went "You'll dance to
> anything" Anybody know what that was?
Um, nope.
> I can't think of any at the mo, but I'm sure there are some. But disco
> was an easy target.
I can think of none. The closest I can come is "Two Pints Of Lager And A
Packet Of Crisps Please!"... and I can't recall who did it or what it was
really called... though I wish I had it. =:-(
/Mel/
NP: MINISTRY - HIZBOLLAH
HiRez
> I can think of none. The closest I can come is "Two Pints Of Lager And A
> Packet Of Crisps Please!"... and I can't recall who did it or what it was
> really called... though I wish I had it. =:-(
Splodgenessabounds. A 7" on Splodge records. (Or was it Deram?)
A side: Simon Templar.
B side: Michael Booth's talking bum + Two pints of lager...
I really should work out how to crack+train some of the 7" collection
for, er, posterity.
NP: Noisy buggers upstairs. Sounds like two elephants riding a motor
scooter round and round, while a seal bangs a kipper on the table.
Mel
> >...there were punk or proto-punk bands in the US first - like the
> Ramones and >New York Dolls etc.
>
> Quite true... but were these US proto-punk bands kicking out against 70s
> disco or a counter to 70s AOR? Personally I think The Ramones and the
> Dolls
> were really just following in the footsteps of earlier bands like The
> Stooges and MC5 whose mission seems to have been to replace some of that
> hippy 'love + peace' crap with something a little more dangerous...
What year were the Stooges? I ask because I used to have an Iggy Pop & The
Stooges album that I filched off my sister many years ago. I can only
remember two things about it - it was bloody good, and it had lots of
yodelling.
/Mel/
NP: THE PASSAGE - DRUGFACE
Graham Clark
> What year were the Stooges?
The first album was released in 1969 (and featured "1969"). The second
album was a year later and had a song called . . .
They'd broken up (for a second and final time) by '74.
> I ask because I used to have an Iggy Pop & The
> Stooges album that I filched off my sister many years ago. I can only
> remember two things about it - it was bloody good, and it had lots of
> yodelling.
Yodelling? I don't remember that at all. I'll have to unearth some and
listen to it. Actually, a guy at the Calling last night wanted Search And
Destroy, but I only had No Fun. Life is hard.
G.
--
12345678902234567890323456789042345678905234567890623456789072345678908234567890
mel
> > What year were the Stooges?
>
> The first album was released in 1969 (and featured "1969"). The
> second
> album was a year later and had a song called . . .
>
> They'd broken up (for a second and final time) by '74.
/That/ long ago?! Though I didn't get my paws on the album until the
late 70's.
> > I ask because I used to have an Iggy Pop & The
> > Stooges album that I filched off my sister many years ago. I can
> > only remember two things about it - it was bloody good, and it had
> > lots of yodelling.
>
> Yodelling? I don't remember that at all. I'll have to unearth
some
> and
> listen to it. Actually, a guy at the Calling last night wanted Search
> And Destroy, but I only had No Fun. Life is hard.
I might recognise the album name, though probably not. But yes,
definitely yodelling.
--
/Mel/ (at work)
mel
> > I can think of none. The closest I can come is "Two Pints Of Lager
> > And A
> > Packet Of Crisps Please!"... and I can't recall who did it or what
> > it was
> > really called... though I wish I had it. =:-(
>
> Splodgenessabounds. A 7" on Splodge records. (Or was it Deram?)
Ah yes, the unpronounceable.
> A side: Simon Templar.
> B side: Michael Booth's talking bum + Two pints of lager...
ROTFL.
> I really should work out how to crack+train some of the 7" collection
> for, er, posterity.
Eh?
> NP: Noisy buggers upstairs. Sounds like two elephants riding a motor
> scooter round and round, while a seal bangs a kipper on the table.
Perhaps it is?
--
/Mel/ (at work)
Whisky Dave
> On Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:11:29 +0100, Whisky Dave wrote:
> >So when was the last Arabic music festival in France?.
> >and a when was the lasy Goth one.
>
genres.
> I have just done a very quick search and stumbled on a lot of punk ones.
When we say festival what sort of size are we talking about...
somethiung the size of Reading or just a few people getting together
in a village.
A friend has just done a punk 'festival' called 'dig it' n France.
http://www.nephthys.demon.co.uk/chester/
>
> >There is a massive indian film market in the UK but when was one last on
> >mainstream TV.
>
> There are some regularly on BBC2 and C4 (more it seems that French
movies).
Well they've got to pad out the good stuff haven't they else they'll just
have Taggart repeats.
But there are approx 500 indian movies made every year how many American
ones 100 or so
but what's the ration of American films to Indian ones on the TV?.
> >This is eactly what I was saying that if the youth of the country are
> >diverted musicly
> >in to another direction then there's going to be less Goth.
>
> I really do not see why. There was a huge explosion of alternative music
> early 80s in France, some was rap in nature, some was punk, and others...
That
> happened in conjunction with the explosion of pirate radios.
A friend that works in a record shop said they display what they think they
will sell.
Radio stations play what they are told to by advertisers and record
companies.
(except John Peel)
> One of France's
> biggest festivals, The Transmusicales de Rennes, is celebrating its 20th
> birthday this year; they have put the programmes of the past 19 years
> Sigue Sigue Sputnik played in 85 as well as plenty of bands of other
horizons.
Sigue Sigue Sputnik played QMW circa 1988, I was there but have little
memory of
it despite seeing a friend of mine ticket touting at the door and realising
that
other touts were selling them cheaper down at mile end station.
> >Goth sort of came about (via punk) because of the crap disco scene that
> >mostly came from America.
> >Without that crap scene to rebel against we'd still be listening to
Status
> >Quo.
>
> Maybe. In France we rebelled mostly against crap popular music (Julio
Iglesias
> anyone?),
I remmeber how dare you remind me/us. ;-)
> Anyway... contrary to some popular belief, the goth scene is thriving in
> France, there are often more clubs and gigs in Paris than there are in
London.
Is this trad. Goth or the new Techno Goth with the bleep bleeps :-)
> (the quote below is from one of those 80s French bands.
> La vie est dure et puis on meurt - Personne n'en sort vivant
d'ailleurs...
> *** Marc Seberg
***
So what does it say in a 'proper' language then? ;-)
>