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WGW Spa - End of an Era?
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dalekd...@gmail.com
Jun 16, 2018, 4:03:08 PM6/16/18
to
Hello All,
No idea, how many of you still use this group, go to WGW or are even interested in Goth anymore. Given that is a good 20 years since the "heyday" of this.
Given that this group was used for many years to exchange new, comments and reviews about WGW, it seems only appropriate to announce the following.
Some of you have probably heard that WGW, or what is the official event that made up the Spa, has lost the venue this year (possibly for good). So for the first time since it acquired the Spa in 1996, it is now without it. For many of you (or at least those still interested in the official event), its an end of an era.
In recent years, it appears that Scarborough Council outsourced the running of the Spa to Sheffield International Venues (SIV) (usual way for management to avoid any accountability). For what ever reason there has been a breakdown in communication between them and TopMum.
Official Statement can be found here - https://www.facebook.com/whitbygothweekend/
More can be read here - https://theblogginggoth.com/2018/06/15/pavilion-parts-ways-with-whitby-goth-weekend-promoter/
Personally, I am not surprised and I think this has been long time coming since the whole weekend has really fallen out of Goth hands. The town plays host to every Tom, Dick and harry in costume and there is a potential for this to be warped into some Halloween Disco. Thee has been no announcement what will be held at the Spa or even if it will even be open. The market and Football will run and I dare say there will be some Fringe events also.
San news though and I hope it can resume again.
No idea, how many of you still use this group, go to WGW or are even interested in Goth anymore. Given that is a good 20 years since the "heyday" of this.
Given that this group was used for many years to exchange new, comments and reviews about WGW, it seems only appropriate to announce the following.
Some of you have probably heard that WGW, or what is the official event that made up the Spa, has lost the venue this year (possibly for good). So for the first time since it acquired the Spa in 1996, it is now without it. For many of you (or at least those still interested in the official event), its an end of an era.
In recent years, it appears that Scarborough Council outsourced the running of the Spa to Sheffield International Venues (SIV) (usual way for management to avoid any accountability). For what ever reason there has been a breakdown in communication between them and TopMum.
Official Statement can be found here - https://www.facebook.com/whitbygothweekend/
More can be read here - https://theblogginggoth.com/2018/06/15/pavilion-parts-ways-with-whitby-goth-weekend-promoter/
Personally, I am not surprised and I think this has been long time coming since the whole weekend has really fallen out of Goth hands. The town plays host to every Tom, Dick and harry in costume and there is a potential for this to be warped into some Halloween Disco. Thee has been no announcement what will be held at the Spa or even if it will even be open. The market and Football will run and I dare say there will be some Fringe events also.
San news though and I hope it can resume again.
David Damerell
Jun 17, 2018, 8:26:29 AM6/17/18
to
Quoting <dalekd...@gmail.com>:
>without it. For many of you (or at least those still interested in the
>official event), its an end of an era.
I'm not sure yet if it is the end of an era or simply a change of
>without it. For many of you (or at least those still interested in the
>official event), its an end of an era.
promoter.
>In recent years, it appears that Scarborough Council outsourced the
>running of the Spa to Sheffield International Venues (SIV) (usual way
>for management to avoid any accountability). For what ever reason there
>has been a breakdown in communication between them and TopMum.
In April the bands were in the Spa theatre, not the main hall. This is a
much smaller room, with perhaps 1/3 or 1/2 the fire capacity. Clearly,
ticket sales are considerably down.
The Spa make money not only from the venue booking fee but from the bar.
Greatly reduced ticket sales mean a greatly reduced bar take. This makes
the event less viable from the Spa's point of view.
Tickets are on sale long before the lineup is known. People buy tickets
without knowing the lineup, something that strikes me as a dubious
proposition given the weakness of some of the recent lineups.
In April two of the bands, well, weren't bands, but a cabaret act of some
kind. This may have come as an unwelcome surprise to people who bought
tickets without knowing the lineup.
It seems likely this would make it harder for WGW to raise money in
advance for some hypothetical October event, given that people would
naturally be reluctant to buy tickets with no lineup. If the Spa is also
unhappy with the financial situation, that would make it still harder to
arrive at a deal.
Given the Spa's statement that there have been 'provocative comments on
social media that led SIV to be concerned about the "safety and well-being
of their staff"', it seems to me there has not so much been a breakdown in
communication as an excess thereof, but fundamentally the problem is that
WGW can't afford the venue.
>Personally, I am not surprised and I think this has been long time
>coming since the whole weekend has really fallen out of Goth hands. The
>town plays host to every Tom, Dick and harry in costume
Dick, and Harry want to parade around in costume; in my experience it is
easier to get accommodation than it was in the mid-00s, so it's not like
they're filling the town up and squeezing us out.
I think it has been a long time coming but it is entirely because the
lineups don't justify the ticket prices; hence the event can't sell
tickets, and so ultimately it can't afford to book the venue. This is
hardly the venue's fault.
>San news though and I hope it can resume again.
capably. WGW has a history of cockups like the late-00s fire capacity
issues but also in recent years has engaged in some incredibly petty and
divisive behaviour; running a spoiler 80s night against the long-running
80s night (and for rather unpleasant reasons) springs to mind.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is Second Chedday, June - a weekend.
Tomorrow will be Second Stilday, June - a weekend.
Skiamakhos
Jun 18, 2018, 4:29:54 AM6/18/18
to
On Sunday, 17 June 2018 13:26:29 UTC+1, David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting <dalekd...@gmail.com>:
> >without it. For many of you (or at least those still interested in the
> >official event), its an end of an era.
>
> I'm not sure yet if it is the end of an era or simply a change of
> promoter.
[snip!]
> Quoting <dalekd...@gmail.com>:
> >without it. For many of you (or at least those still interested in the
> >official event), its an end of an era.
>
> I'm not sure yet if it is the end of an era or simply a change of
> promoter.
> In April the bands were in the Spa theatre, not the main hall. This is a
> much smaller room, with perhaps 1/3 or 1/2 the fire capacity. Clearly,
> ticket sales are considerably down.
Aside from the SIV/Topmum drama, this is pretty worrying in itself. I haven't been to WGW in a few years, having had kids. I was thinking of maybe taking them this year or next but... I dunno... It sounds like it's a shadow of its former self
> much smaller room, with perhaps 1/3 or 1/2 the fire capacity. Clearly,
> ticket sales are considerably down.
Ben Fletcher
Jun 18, 2018, 1:30:55 PM6/18/18
to
Quoting <dalekd...@gmail.com>:
>without it. For many of you (or at least those still interested in the
>official event), its an end of an era.
>without it. For many of you (or at least those still interested in the
>official event), its an end of an era.
>I'm not sure yet if it is the end of an era or simply a change of
>promoter.
Well if it becomes a "Halloween Disco" for the masses with nothing but mainstream music, then it certainly will. Back in October 2015, on the Saturday a friend and I escaped the Met for an hour and went into the Res, full of students playing borderline rock music (Bon Jovi!)
>promoter.
>Sticking to the stuff that is reasonably public knowledge:
>In April the bands were in the Spa theatre, not the main hall. This is a
>much smaller room, with perhaps 1/3 or 1/2 the fire capacity. Clearly,
>ticket sales are considerably down.
Unlike the late 90's or early 2000's a Spa ticket is not a must have anymore. Several options if you don't have a Spa ticket, or at least it was a year or too when the Met/RAW held Goth clubs.
>much smaller room, with perhaps 1/3 or 1/2 the fire capacity. Clearly,
>ticket sales are considerably down.
>The Spa make money not only from the venue booking fee but from the bar.
>Greatly reduced ticket sales mean a greatly reduced bar take. This makes
>the event less viable from the Spa's point of view.
>Tickets are on sale long before the lineup is known. People buy tickets
>without knowing the lineup, something that strikes me as a dubious
>proposition given the weakness of some of the recent lineups.
>In April two of the bands, well, weren't bands, but a cabaret act of some
>kind. This may have come as an unwelcome surprise to people who bought
>tickets without knowing the lineup.
>It seems likely this would make it harder for WGW to raise money in
>advance for some hypothetical October event, given that people would
>naturally be reluctant to buy tickets with no lineup. If the Spa is also
>unhappy with the financial situation, that would make it still harder to
>arrive at a deal.
>Given the Spa's statement that there have been 'provocative comments on
>social media that led SIV to be concerned about the "safety and well-being
>of their staff"', it seems to me there has not so much been a breakdown in
>communication as an excess thereof, but fundamentally the problem is that
>WGW can't afford the venue.
>I really don't think it has anything to do with that. I don't care if Tom,
>Dick, and Harry want to parade around in costume; in my experience it is
>easier to get accommodation than it was in the mid-00s, so it's not like
>they're filling the town up and squeezing us out.
>I think it has been a long time coming but it is entirely because the
>lineups don't justify the ticket prices; hence the event can't sell
>tickets, and so ultimately it can't afford to book the venue. This is
>hardly the venue's fault.
>Frankly, I would rather see a change of promoter if it is then run more
>capably. WGW has a history of cockups like the late-00s fire capacity
>issues but also in recent years has engaged in some incredibly petty and
>divisive behaviour; running a spoiler 80s night against the long-running
>80s night (and for rather unpleasant reasons) springs to mind.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is Second Chedday, June - a weekend.
Tomorrow will be Second Stilday, June - a weekend.
Skiamakhos
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is Second Chedday, June - a weekend.
Tomorrow will be Second Stilday, June - a weekend.
Ben Fletcher
Jun 18, 2018, 1:47:01 PM6/18/18
to
>Aside from the SIV/Topmum drama, this is pretty worrying in itself. I haven't >been to WGW in a few years, having had kids. I was thinking of maybe taking them >this year or next but... I dunno... It sounds like it's a shadow of its former >self
I think it would depend on how long you were going and When you last went?
I think it started changing significantly from 2009 onwards. But then during out 5 year break, 2010-2014 it had changed. Just seems less actual Goths going and what long term regulars still go, many seem to stay in the pubs.
if you did not go, what would you do at home? For us, we sometimes go to the Goth club on or near Halloween or go out for a drive in the country, find a nice old town and explore and enjoy the Halloween decorations/cakes.
David Damerell
Jun 22, 2018, 9:53:27 AM6/22/18
to
Spa event, probably at that. I'll report back - if we're lucky the upshot
of all this will be to give the event a bit of a shot in the arm.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Clown shoes. I hope that doesn't bother you.
Today is Mania, Presuary.
Tomorrow will be Aponoia, Presuary.
David Damerell
Jun 22, 2018, 11:11:24 AM6/22/18
to
Quoting Ben Fletcher <bensfl...@gmail.com>:
>David Damerell:
to rejuvenate WGW; and the closest we've come to an event like WGW
recently was Bram Stoker, whose lineups were (much better than WGW and)
not remotely "mainstream music".
>Unlike the late 90's or early 2000's a Spa ticket is not a must have
>anymore. Several options if you don't have a Spa ticket, or at least it
>was a year or too when the Met/RAW held Goth clubs.
True, albeit my perception is that happened the other way around; people
started to organise alternative events because the Spa had become less
appealing.
>>Tickets are on sale long before the lineup is known. People buy tickets
>>without knowing the lineup, something that strikes me as a dubious
>>proposition given the weakness of some of the recent lineups.
>Force of habit as they have always done it?
There's a lot of force of habit but it can't last forever, especially if
some of the bands aren't even bands.
>The Spa was their HQ, without its going to be hard to run. It just
>sounds like it will be the fringe elements running the weekend and if
>they are not centred, the whole thing may just go to pot.
Frankly, that's my worry; that the rump of WGW will hang around running
stalls (which they're welcome to do) then picking dates other than those
set by some hypothetical new promoters, causing yet another schism.
>>I really don't think it has anything to do with that. I don't care if Tom,
>>Dick, and Harry want to parade around in costume; in my experience it is
>>easier to get accommodation than it was in the mid-00s, so it's not like
>>they're filling the town up and squeezing us out.
>so that means less Goths go to the event then?
I think there's just more accommodation. In the early years a lot of
places weren't open in the off season because WGW was the only event in
Whitby (in the off season). Now lots of oddball events happen in Whitby
and it's worth B&Bs staying open all year round, and there are more
cottages and the like in Whitby; there are more extra rooms than Toms,
Dicks, and Harrys.
Time was, I'd book a year in advance to be sure of getting anywhere. Now
sometimes I leave it until a month in advance out of sheer disorganisation,
and the worst that comes of that is I end up somewhere fifteen minutes
walk out of the town. We're not being squeezed out.
>I just don't like how
>busy they make the town. They put a show on for the tourists so more and
>more go. It would be nice to be able to walk around and not be crushed.
I agree with that but I can't really complain, when I go to Whitby and
walk around, that the streets are full of other people who are walking
around.
In recent years they've closed the swing bridge to motor traffic Saturday
and Sunday and that's improved matters quite a bit.
>I have heard there has been various drama over the years, around 2006
>the tickets oversold, too many printed or something.
It was October 2006, when the Damned played. It's not quite clear if it was
oversales, a change of fire capacity under WGW's feet, or that the tickets
were trivial to duplicate. I mean, they _were_ trivial to duplicate but
IDK to what degree anyone noticed that and was printing their own.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
And now, a seemingly inexplicable shot of a passing train.
>David Damerell:
>>Quoting <dalekd...@gmail.com>:
>>>without it. For many of you (or at least those still interested in the
>>>official event), its an end of an era.
>>I'm not sure yet if it is the end of an era or simply a change of
>>promoter.
>Well if it becomes a "Halloween Disco" for the masses with nothing but
>mainstream music, then it certainly will.
I really think that's very unlikely. There are plenty of goths who'd like
>>>without it. For many of you (or at least those still interested in the
>>>official event), its an end of an era.
>>I'm not sure yet if it is the end of an era or simply a change of
>>promoter.
>Well if it becomes a "Halloween Disco" for the masses with nothing but
>mainstream music, then it certainly will.
to rejuvenate WGW; and the closest we've come to an event like WGW
recently was Bram Stoker, whose lineups were (much better than WGW and)
not remotely "mainstream music".
>Unlike the late 90's or early 2000's a Spa ticket is not a must have
>anymore. Several options if you don't have a Spa ticket, or at least it
>was a year or too when the Met/RAW held Goth clubs.
started to organise alternative events because the Spa had become less
appealing.
>>Tickets are on sale long before the lineup is known. People buy tickets
>>without knowing the lineup, something that strikes me as a dubious
>>proposition given the weakness of some of the recent lineups.
>Force of habit as they have always done it?
some of the bands aren't even bands.
>The Spa was their HQ, without its going to be hard to run. It just
>sounds like it will be the fringe elements running the weekend and if
>they are not centred, the whole thing may just go to pot.
stalls (which they're welcome to do) then picking dates other than those
set by some hypothetical new promoters, causing yet another schism.
>>I really don't think it has anything to do with that. I don't care if Tom,
>>Dick, and Harry want to parade around in costume; in my experience it is
>>easier to get accommodation than it was in the mid-00s, so it's not like
>>they're filling the town up and squeezing us out.
>so that means less Goths go to the event then?
places weren't open in the off season because WGW was the only event in
Whitby (in the off season). Now lots of oddball events happen in Whitby
and it's worth B&Bs staying open all year round, and there are more
cottages and the like in Whitby; there are more extra rooms than Toms,
Dicks, and Harrys.
Time was, I'd book a year in advance to be sure of getting anywhere. Now
sometimes I leave it until a month in advance out of sheer disorganisation,
and the worst that comes of that is I end up somewhere fifteen minutes
walk out of the town. We're not being squeezed out.
>I just don't like how
>busy they make the town. They put a show on for the tourists so more and
>more go. It would be nice to be able to walk around and not be crushed.
walk around, that the streets are full of other people who are walking
around.
In recent years they've closed the swing bridge to motor traffic Saturday
and Sunday and that's improved matters quite a bit.
>I have heard there has been various drama over the years, around 2006
>the tickets oversold, too many printed or something.
oversales, a change of fire capacity under WGW's feet, or that the tickets
were trivial to duplicate. I mean, they _were_ trivial to duplicate but
IDK to what degree anyone noticed that and was printing their own.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
And now, a seemingly inexplicable shot of a passing train.
David Damerell
Jul 12, 2018, 12:14:52 PM7/12/18
to
Quoting David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>:
>I'm going to at least be in Whitby in October, and if there's a credible
>Spa event, probably at that.
Absinthe Promotions (who already run events during WGW) have a Spa lineup:
>I'm going to at least be in Whitby in October, and if there's a credible
>Spa event, probably at that.
Paradise Lost, The Eden House, The Society
Nephs, Salvation, Sometime the Wolf.
This is reasonably compelling. (In particular, the Nephs - who of course
WGW had picked a silly feud with - should be a big draw).
Inevitably WGW have announced a set of 2019 dates at odds with the Spa's
2019 dates, but it's not really clear to me what "WGW" now consists of -
stalls?
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
And now, a seemingly inexplicable shot of a passing train.
Today is Leicesterday, Presuary.
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
And now, a seemingly inexplicable shot of a passing train.
Tomorrow will be Brieday, Presuary.
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