Can a hospital bed go upstairs?
ju...@davidbevan.co.uk
boundaries.
Basically my disabled nan has been living at home (a bungalow) and
receiving help from Bromley social services to lift her out of bed
using a hoist and take her to the toilet etc. We all want her to move
in with my father who owns a house in Maidstone, but Maidstone social
services are not being entirely helpful and the lastest hurdle is that
they say a hospital bed is not allowed upstairs - but they didnt give a
reason.
The bed does dismatle so we could get it up the stairs, but were
wondering if there was a weight restriction on the bedroom floor?
...ie with the special bed, plus hoist plus three adults would the
floor be in danger of giving way?
Its a modern house (4 years old) Does anyone know how strong the floors
have to be?
If houses are built with such a large safety margin that there is
absolutaly no danger with three adults and a special hospital bed then
at least we can know that social services are misleading us.
Any help grately appreciated.
Thanks
David Bevan
http://www.davidbevan.co.uk
d...@gglz.com
something like 1.5KN/m2 - i.e. 150Kg per square metre.
The3rd Earl Of Derby
> I suspect complete bollocks. Max imposed floor loading should be
> something like 1.5KN/m2 - i.e. 150Kg per square metre.
Are you sure? I have a friend who has a treadmill and a weightlifters bench
with the weights attached to the frame in the same room.
--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite
RicodJour
The weight is not an issue. I'm not sure of your particular code
requirements, but 30 or 40 pounds per square foot is a typical design
load. Hospital beds aren't particularly heavy.
I don't think social services is misleading you. They said the bed
wasn't allowed upstairs but didn't give a reason. If they gave you a
bogus reason, then they're misleading you. If they have regulations
that prohibit the bed being on the second floor for whatever reason,
and they're just telling you about the prohibition, that's not
misleading you.
You should ask to see the regulations that govern what type of bed is
allowed in what locations. Maybe they're misreading the regulation,
maybe they're simply wrong.
R
Martin Davies
> d...@gglz.com wrote:
>> I suspect complete bollocks. Max imposed floor loading should be
>> something like 1.5KN/m2 - i.e. 150Kg per square metre.
>
> Are you sure? I have a friend who has a treadmill and a weightlifters
> bench with the weights attached to the frame in the same room.
Just because floor loading should be a certain figure generally doesn't stop
people putting things on that floor.
Come to think of it, there are people heavier than that.
Martin <><
Steve Walker
> Wasnt sure what news group to post this question to as it crosses
> a few boundaries.
>
> Basically my disabled nan has been living at home (a bungalow) and
> receiving help from Bromley social services to lift her out of bed
> using a hoist and take her to the toilet etc. We all want her to
> move in with my father who owns a house in Maidstone, but
> Maidstone social services are not being entirely helpful and the
> lastest hurdle is that they say a hospital bed is not allowed
> upstairs - but they didnt give a reason.
>
> The bed does dismatle so we could get it up the stairs, but were
> wondering if there was a weight restriction on the bedroom floor?
More likely that they don't see any compelling necessity to carry all their
equipment up and down in the course of her treatment & care (and
occasionally carry her up & down too). There's a reasonable argument that
this wastes staff time, raises H&S issues, etc.
d...@gglz.com
accpetable defelection (something like 3mm) and based on continuous
longterm load - NOT the instantaneous load failure point.
John
As hospitals have wards above the ground floor, it can only be relavent
to a domestic property.
Many houses have suspended timber floors on the ground floor of exactly
the same design as the upper floor.
I suspect they are trying it on. Ask for the specific regulation and
then check it.
John
Roger Mills
d...@gglz.com <d...@gglz.com> wrote:
> I suspect complete bollocks. Max imposed floor loading should be
> something like 1.5KN/m2 - i.e. 150Kg per square metre.
I'm sure that the joists can support the distributed load. It's possible
that the point loadings are too high for a chipboard floor - so this may
need to be re-inforced.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!
John Cartmell
RicodJour <rico...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> You should ask to see the regulations that govern what type of bed is
> allowed in what locations. Maybe they're misreading the regulation,
> maybe they're simply wrong.
My mother couldn't be nursed at home because regulations wouldn't allow two
nurses to lift her without special lifting equipment. In the (expensive)
nursing home, that my father had to travel to twice daily in order to ensure
that she was fed properly, she was (easily) lifted by one nurse with no
equipment. There are words to describe those regulations but those words are
not fit for the ears of anyone except those responsible for making and
implementing the regulations. To be eaten - laced with arsenic.
--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing
Martin Davies
So a heavy person sat in an armchair watching TV every night wouldn't affect
it? :)
Martin <><
Martin Davies
> In article <1148851031.5...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> RicodJour <rico...@worldemail.com> wrote:
>> You should ask to see the regulations that govern what type of bed is
>> allowed in what locations. Maybe they're misreading the regulation,
>> maybe they're simply wrong.
>
> My mother couldn't be nursed at home because regulations wouldn't
> allow two nurses to lift her without special lifting equipment. In
> the (expensive) nursing home, that my father had to travel to twice
> daily in order to ensure that she was fed properly, she was (easily)
> lifted by one nurse with no equipment. There are words to describe
> those regulations but those words are not fit for the ears of anyone
> except those responsible for making and implementing the regulations.
> To be eaten - laced with arsenic.
I've worked as a nurse in a nursing home. Two people are pretty standard for
lifting anyone, where possible, at least in the homes I've ever been in.
Sometimes a hoist is used, makes things easier on the staff.
Avoids strain and injury to one person, gives often more stability to the
patient, and less likely to drop them. Oh, and don't need to be in the top
10 sstrongest people in the neighbourhood. Even the lightest adult to be
lifted is still a much heavier load for one person than many of us attempt
outside a gym.
And few of us attempt to lift a load of 50kg+ while standing.
The regulations aren't always good, but do try and prevent injury to the
nurses.
Martin <><
Golden State Poppy
place. Many are quite good. She would have companionship as well.
Ken S. Tucker
ju...@davidbevan.co.uk wrote:
> Wasnt sure what news group to post this question to as it crosses a few
> boundaries.
>
> Basically my disabled nan has been living at home (a bungalow) and
> receiving help from Bromley social services to lift her out of bed
> using a hoist and take her to the toilet etc. We all want her to move
> in with my father who owns a house in Maidstone, but Maidstone social
> services are not being entirely helpful and the lastest hurdle is that
> they say a hospital bed is not allowed upstairs - but they didnt give a
> reason.
>
> The bed does dismatle so we could get it up the stairs, but were
> wondering if there was a weight restriction on the bedroom floor?
I doubt that, I'd guess it's got more to do
with fire evacuation.
John Rumm
> d...@gglz.com wrote:
>
>>I suspect complete bollocks. Max imposed floor loading should be
>>something like 1.5KN/m2 - i.e. 150Kg per square metre.
>
>
> Are you sure? I have a friend who has a treadmill and a weightlifters bench
> with the weights attached to the frame in the same room.
It is rated for 150kg on *every* square meter. Hence by virtue of having
far less load most of the floor area, you can have lots more
concentrated over some of it and still be within the design loading limits.
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
John Rumm
The max deflection is actually given as a proportion of the joist
length. For joists up to 5 or 6m (can't remember which!) this is 0.003 *
Lenght. For joists longer than this it is a fixed limit of 14mm. Short
term loads can be up to 1.75 times the long term rating.
Phil Anthropist
This is only a guess, but maybe social services has conducted a manual
handling risk assessment and from that decided that carrying the bed parts
upstairs is too risky for their staff. I doubt that it is a floor weight
issue as some people have a water bed in an upstairs bedroom, and we all
know the weight of water. The metal beds supplied by social services don't
look any heavier than ordinary domestic double divan beds. If they will
deliver to the ground floor perhaps you can carry it upstairs.
Dave Plowman (News)
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> My mother couldn't be nursed at home because regulations wouldn't allow
> two nurses to lift her without special lifting equipment.
There are rightly so regulations about lifting. Do you know how many
medical staff end up with back complaints?
> In the (expensive) nursing home, that my father had to travel to twice
> daily in order to ensure that she was fed properly, she was (easily)
> lifted by one nurse with no equipment.
Well, if they can't be bothered to feed her properly do you really expect
they give a damn about the H&S of their staff?
> There are words to describe those regulations but those words are not
> fit for the ears of anyone except those responsible for making and
> implementing the regulations. To be eaten - laced with arsenic.
Lifting equipment is cheap compared to the health of a nurse. What other
equipment has this private nursing home skimped on?
--
*Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together? *
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
John Adams
> Maidstone social
>services are not being entirely helpful and the lastest hurdle is that
>they say a hospital bed is not allowed upstairs - but they didnt give a
>reason.
David,
I am sure there is no general rule about placement of Adjustable beds,
it is more likely that they have decided that the particular bedroom
is too small, or the doors are opening inward, or somesuch. Ask them.
They have the power, you are going to have to work with them.
I know it is galling, but you may well have to compromise on what you
would like, and what the Council deem to be safe in the specific house
your Nan will be moving to. And bear in mind that , however nitpicking
you may think there rules, they are designed to protect your Nan, your
Dad and their Care-Staff. The rules don't always work perfectly, but
hey, that's life, and they can be changed!
Be prepared, if necessary, for her to sleep downstairs, and to convert
the bedroom into a Living Room. I had the same problem with my wife
for almost a year, but in the end solutions were found.
Grimly Curmudgeon
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Dave Plowman (News)"
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> saying something like:
>> In the (expensive) nursing home, that my father had to travel to twice
>> daily in order to ensure that she was fed properly, she was (easily)
>> lifted by one nurse with no equipment.
>
>Well, if they can't be bothered to feed her properly do you really expect
>they give a damn about the H&S of their staff?
That's a big ding! on that. Many private nursing homes seek to utilise
staff to the nth degree and frequently don't have two available to lift
residents. It's all about the money, and how much the owner can trouser
every week.
--
Dave
Peter Parry
<dyna...@vianet.on.ca> wrote:
>I doubt that, I'd guess it's got more to do
>with fire evacuation.
That can usually be dealt with fairly easily (especially in a modern
house) by making the bedroom a 30 min protected area.
--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/
Don
> That's a big ding! on that. Many private nursing homes seek to utilise
> staff to the nth degree and frequently don't have two available to lift
> residents. It's all about the money, and how much the owner can trouser
> every week.
If the business doesn't have the resources to conduct itself properly then
the clientele should locate themselves elsewhere.
Untampered with, the freemarket is self adjusting.
Martin Davies
Though many nursing homes make a loss if not enough patients. Can be well
over half full simply to break even.
And if they can't retain enough staff, and have to get agency workers in,
even more expense.
Martin <><
Chris Bacon
> Many private nursing homes seek to utilise
> staff to the nth degree and frequently don't have two available to lift
> residents. It's all about the money, and how much the owner can trouser
> every week.
I'm afraid that I have formed the opinion that some owners of "private
nursing homes" should be got out into their gardens and boiled in their
own fat.
nightjar
<ju...@davidbevan.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1148849341....@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Wasnt sure what news group to post this question to as it crosses a few
> boundaries.
>
> Basically my disabled nan has been living at home (a bungalow) and
> receiving help from Bromley social services to lift her out of bed
> using a hoist and take her to the toilet etc. We all want her to move
> services are not being entirely helpful and the lastest hurdle is that
> they say a hospital bed is not allowed upstairs - but they didnt give a
> reason.
Then I suggest you ask them why. The chances are that it relates to a risk
assessement that deems it presents a risk to either patient or carers and,
if so, they are not likely to budge.
Colin Bignell
Mark Spice
<ju...@davidbevan.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1148849341....@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Wasnt sure what news group to post this question to as it crosses a few
> boundaries.
>
> Basically my disabled nan has been living at home (a bungalow) and
> receiving help from Bromley social services to lift her out of bed
> using a hoist and take her to the toilet etc. We all want her to move
> in with my father who owns a house in Maidstone, but Maidstone social
> services are not being entirely helpful and the lastest hurdle is that
> they say a hospital bed is not allowed upstairs - but they didnt give a
> reason.
>
> wondering if there was a weight restriction on the bedroom floor?
>
> ...ie with the special bed, plus hoist plus three adults would the
> floor be in danger of giving way?
>
> Its a modern house (4 years old) Does anyone know how strong the floors
> have to be?
>
> If houses are built with such a large safety margin that there is
> absolutaly no danger with three adults and a special hospital bed then
> at least we can know that social services are misleading us.
>
> Any help grately appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> David Bevan
> http://www.davidbevan.co.uk
>
disabled children with hospital beds upstairs. Admittedly we are looking at
having a downstairs room for him, but that is due to safety issues in caring
him upstairs - if your nan can manage the stairs safely (or alternatively a
stairlift) I see no reason for her not to have her hospital bed upstairs.
His OT has no problem with him being upstairs. SS are trying it on to avoid
paying for care IMO.
HTH
Dom
Inviato da X-Privat.Org - Registrazione gratuita http://www.x-privat.org/join.php
Grimly Curmudgeon
saying something like:
Well, hello Mrs T.
--
Dave
Grimly Curmudgeon
<mart...@hotmail.com> saying something like:
>> That's a big ding! on that. Many private nursing homes seek to utilise
>> staff to the nth degree and frequently don't have two available to
>> lift residents. It's all about the money, and how much the owner can
>> trouser every week.
>
>Though many nursing homes make a loss if not enough patients. Can be well
>over half full simply to break even.
My heart bleeds for them. Granted, rising costs do take a toll, but the
money they charge goes up also.
>And if they can't retain enough staff, and have to get agency workers in,
>even more expense.
Agency workers? Sheer bloody luxury. I've known a few geriatric care
staff who simply had to fill in and do the jobs of two or even three
because the owner was a greedy bastard.
One particular owner I know off ( a truly wonderful human being) was
running around in a brand new Porker, owned a heating company, was
technically bankrupt and weaselled his way out of paying alimony to his
ex-wife, never mind maintenance for his kids. His wife was turning the
place upside down looking for the real books so she could dob him in to
the taxman.
One Xmas, he trousered the residents' Xmas bonus. I ask you, what kind
of shithead does that?
He was an uncommonly greedy swine, I admit, but many others are not so
far short of him.
--
Dave
Grimly Curmudgeon
saying something like:
>I'm afraid that I have formed the opinion that some owners of "private
>nursing homes" should be got out into their gardens and boiled in their
>own fat.
Much better to use them for Biodiesel. Their worthless existence may
have had some use then.
--
Dave
Phil Bradshaw
> Wasnt sure what news group to post this question to as it crosses a few
> boundaries.
>
> Basically my disabled nan has been living at home (a bungalow) and
> receiving help from Bromley social services to lift her out of bed
> using a hoist and take her to the toilet etc. We all want her to move
> in with my father who owns a house in Maidstone, but Maidstone social
> services are not being entirely helpful and the lastest hurdle is that
> they say a hospital bed is not allowed upstairs - but they didnt give a
> reason.
>
> The bed does dismatle so we could get it up the stairs, but were
> wondering if there was a weight restriction on the bedroom floor?
>
> ...ie with the special bed, plus hoist plus three adults would the
> floor be in danger of giving way?
>
> Its a modern house (4 years old) Does anyone know how strong the floors
> have to be?
>
> If houses are built with such a large safety margin that there is
> absolutaly no danger with three adults and a special hospital bed then
> at least we can know that social services are misleading us.
>
> Any help grately appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> David Bevan
> http://www.davidbevan.co.uk
Some possible reasons:
http://www.firesafe.org.uk/html/premises/reshomes.htm
Fire Precautions (Workplace) Regulations 1997/99 do not apply to domestic
premises though.
Building Regulations (Approved Docs A and M for example) -
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1130478
Accessibility could be the greater issue.
Avoidable manual handling (employer's duty wherever care/nursing staff
work): http://www.hse.gov.uk/lau/lacs/56-1.htm
Ambulift (or similar) may not be manoeuvrable into or within 'normal'
bedrooms, bathrooms, toilets. Ditto wheelchair.
Best to ask SS for clarification in any event, let them point you to which
regulations do apply in your case.
Nothing is set in stone however; if you are determined enough
then 'independent living' is possible and can attract assistance for
suitable modifications/equipment/care.
HTH
Pat
it has to do with fire-evacuation.
1.) Many homes have basements. So, first floor bedroom are built on
floor systems exactly like the second floor -- and no one worries about
them crashing into the basement (at least too much). If someone is
worried about the flooring, put a small square of wood under the legs.
2.) It's not like you can't image situations that involve 3 people and
a bed. :-))) Okay, get those dirty thoughts out of your mind. I mean
something like your local minister visiting your sick aunt. ;-)
Take my two kids, let them get wound up and jumping around, and you
get aone heck of a lot more load then three adults will ever give you.
3.) At least in New York, there are similar situations. ALL
commercial day care centers have to have at grade entrances where you
can roll out cribs. -- no matter the fire rating.
4.) At least around here, nursing homes that are multi-floor have
steel frames and concrete floors for fire protection.
I doubt that it's a structural issue. I think it is a bureacrat citing
a regulation and not knowing why it is a regulation, so trying to be
helpful and filling in the blanks.
Good luck with it.
Guy King
from "Pat" <gro...@artisticphotography.us> contains these words:
> 1.) Many homes have basements.
Not in the UK they don't!
--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
Martin Davies
> The message <1148953452.8...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>
> from "Pat" <gro...@artisticphotography.us> contains these words:
>
>> 1.) Many homes have basements.
>
> Not in the UK they don't!
Basements, cellars, whatever you want to call them.
Many do. And many don't.
More common I've found in older houses than more modern ones, and not
exactly the best thing to have in areas with flood risks. But still plenty
of houses with them.
Martin <><
Bob Eager
wrote:
> The message <1148953452.8...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>
> from "Pat" <gro...@artisticphotography.us> contains these words:
>
> > 1.) Many homes have basements.
>
> Not in the UK they don't!
Not to mention his American mis-numbering of floors, which muddied
things still further..
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk
Tony Bryer
> I experienced a similar set up when a near neighbour we looked after
> was taken into care and killed. The deeply worrying bit about it was
> that Age Concern organised the home and were aware of what was
> happening:-(
Did they sell him/her an Age Concern funeral plan before it happened?
--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
John Cartmell
Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <4e2e4bf...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>,
> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > My mother couldn't be nursed at home because regulations wouldn't allow
> > two nurses to lift her without special lifting equipment.
> There are rightly so regulations about lifting. Do you know how many
> medical staff end up with back complaints?
You're missing a very critical piece of information that I thought you might
have guessed. Weight?
--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing
Guy King
from "Martin Davies" <mart...@hotmail.com> contains these words:
> More common I've found in older houses than more modern ones, and not
> exactly the best thing to have in areas with flood risks. But still plenty
> of houses with them.
Fewer than one in twenty, I'd guess. Perhaps someone out there has the stats.
Martin Davies
> In article <4e2e859...@davenoise.co.uk>,
> Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <4e2e4bf...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>,
>> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> My mother couldn't be nursed at home because regulations wouldn't
>>> allow two nurses to lift her without special lifting equipment.
>
>> There are rightly so regulations about lifting. Do you know how many
>> medical staff end up with back complaints?
>
> You're missing a very critical piece of information that I thought
> you might have guessed. Weight?
Humans are pretty heavy. And not all nursing staff are weightlifters in
their spare time.
Martin <><
Christian McArdle
> failure point. Calculating that point will give overall failure rate.
Nope. There is a maximum deflection and an instantaneous failure point.
Wooden joists are invariably sized by deflection (when they reach maximum
allowed deflection they could bend much, much more before they actually
snap), whilst metal joists will usually fail entirely before deflection is
apparent. Flitch beams can be optimised so that the two points are much
closer.
Christian.
Pat
They don't if they are on rock or swampy soil, but otherwise they do.
I think it has to do with the frost line. You have to excavate for
your footers anyway, so why not. Our frost goes pretty deep.
Oher parts of the country are different, though. I think basements are
rarer in Texas because of their soil, but I'm not 100% sure. But here,
up north, they are common.
But anyway, if you had a basement, would they stop you from putting a
bed on the first floor? If so, then no house with a basement could
have the bed like that.
Pat
floor (ground level), the second floor is the next one up, etc.
Occationally, you have the first floor renamed (ground floor), but
that's not too common. Mezzanines make for weird numbering.
However, the absolute worst place I have even seen is the University of
Buffalo's Amherst campus. They have a slew a buildings all connected
by an above-grade walkway so you can move between buildings without
putting on your coat and boots (Buffalo gets a lot of snow and is
pretty windy). The walkway is generally designated as the second floor
of the building, for consistancy. Unfortuneately, the campus is on a
small hill and they started on the top of it. So some buildings have
the ground level on the first floor, some have a "ground floor" below
the first floor, etc. It's pretty confusing.
Bob Eager
wrote:
> How do you number your floors? Here, the first floor is the first
> floor (ground level), the second floor is the next one up, etc.
> Occationally, you have the first floor renamed (ground floor), but
> that's not too common. Mezzanines make for weird numbering.
Ground floor is the ground floor. The first floor above that is the
first floor. The next is the second floor.
> However, the absolute worst place I have even seen is the University of
> Buffalo's Amherst campus. They have a slew a buildings all connected
> by an above-grade walkway so you can move between buildings without
> putting on your coat and boots (Buffalo gets a lot of snow and is
> pretty windy). The walkway is generally designated as the second floor
> of the building, for consistancy. Unfortuneately, the campus is on a
> small hill and they started on the top of it. So some buildings have
> the ground level on the first floor, some have a "ground floor" below
> the first floor, etc. It's pretty confusing.
We have two buildings like that where I work. Not only that, but all the
rooms are identified by compass point (N, NE, NW, etc.) and number. And
the buildings are asymmetric. But mirror images.
Christian McArdle
> of the building, for consistancy. Unfortuneately, the campus is on a
> small hill and they started on the top of it. So some buildings have
> the ground level on the first floor, some have a "ground floor" below
> the first floor, etc. It's pretty confusing.
A bit like my local hospital (Royal Berks). The main floor is labelled '2'
and is variously the ground floor, or one or two above it. Not helped by the
lifts sometimes having numbers for the floors and sometimes having letters
for no fathomable reason.
Christian.
Tim French
for numbering floors although the American method is more common.
"Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:176uZD2KcidF-p...@rikki.tavi.co.uk...
Tim French
the sub basement of the Health Sciences building to the third floor of the
University hospital by going up a 14 inch long ramp(or two steps).
Martin Davies
My local shopping centre has two ground floors, depending on which direct
you come from you use one then go up to the other, or down to the other.
Buildings on some sort of slope aren't uncommon.
Several buildings I've been in have been the same.
Martin <><
Pat
102, etc. The elevator used "G" for ground, next floor up was "2".
The stairways had "G", then 1, then 2. We made the contractor relabel
all of the stairway doors and the evevator buttons.
John Cartmell
I was talking about one who, at that time, wasn't. One nurse was sufficient;
two were more than adequate under all circumstances and all conditions of H&S;
home nursing was refused unless lifting equipment was made available.
Warm Worm
"Tim French"
> You want to talk about confusing? I'm in Canada where we see both systems
> for numbering floors although the American method is more common.
That's nothing. During my last mission, we enountered a space anomaly that
had my ship's decks and hallways constantly twisting shifting, where it
became impossible to get anywhere we wanted to go.
The bridge was engineering, engineering was sickbay, an attractive
crewmember's quarters turned into mine, and so on...
Martin Davies
> In article <OiWeg.234163$tc.1...@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
> Martin Davies <mart...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> John Cartmell wrote:
>>> In article <4e2e859...@davenoise.co.uk>,
>>> Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In article <4e2e4bf...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>,
>>>> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> My mother couldn't be nursed at home because regulations wouldn't
>>>>> allow two nurses to lift her without special lifting equipment.
>>>
>>>> There are rightly so regulations about lifting. Do you know how
>>>> many medical staff end up with back complaints?
>>>
>>> You're missing a very critical piece of information that I thought
>>> you might have guessed. Weight?
>
>> Humans are pretty heavy. And not all nursing staff are weightlifters
>> in their spare time.
>
> I was talking about one who, at that time, wasn't. One nurse was
> sufficient; two were more than adequate under all circumstances and
> all conditions of H&S; home nursing was refused unless lifting
> equipment was made available.
If one was sufficient then they could lift more safely than I ever could.
80pound weight? 100 pound weight? And not just lifting, lifting safely.
Lifting equipment can make things safer, more stable for the patient, and
less likely to cause problems for staff.
Could you personally handle shifting heavy weight on a regular basis,
without any problems for the patient or you? If so, congratulations.
For the rest of us mortals, H&S tries to make sure all sides are protected
against problems. Doesn't always work, but gives some good guidelines.
Martin <><
Guy King
from "Warm Worm" <m...@here.ca> contains these words:
> That's nothing. During my last mission, we enountered a space anomaly that
> had my ship's decks and hallways constantly twisting shifting, where it
> became impossible to get anywhere we wanted to go.
> The bridge was engineering, engineering was sickbay, an attractive
> crewmember's quarters turned into mine, and so on...
Find any pairs of size nine chukka boots?
John Rumm
> I was talking about one who, at that time, wasn't. One nurse was sufficient;
> two were more than adequate under all circumstances and all conditions of H&S;
> home nursing was refused unless lifting equipment was made available.
Anything more than 35kg is defined as a two man lift by H&S these days.
Can't be many adults that weigh less than that.
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Dave Plowman (News)
John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> Anything more than 35kg is defined as a two man lift by H&S these days.
> Can't be many adults that weigh less than that.
Especially since you can't assume the correct lifting position when
getting someone out of bed.
--
*The hardness of the butter is proportional to the softness of the bread *
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Phil Bradshaw
> In article <OiWeg.234163$tc.1...@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
> Martin Davies <mart...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> John Cartmell wrote:
>> > In article <4e2e859...@davenoise.co.uk>,
>> > Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> In article <4e2e4bf...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>,
>> >> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>> My mother couldn't be nursed at home because regulations wouldn't
>> >>> allow two nurses to lift her without special lifting equipment.
>> >
>> >> There are rightly so regulations about lifting. Do you know how many
>> >> medical staff end up with back complaints?
>> >
>> > You're missing a very critical piece of information that I thought
>> > you might have guessed. Weight?
>
>> Humans are pretty heavy. And not all nursing staff are weightlifters in
>> their spare time.
>
> I was talking about one who, at that time, wasn't. One nurse was
> sufficient; two were more than adequate under all circumstances and all
> conditions of H&S; home nursing was refused unless lifting equipment was
> made available.
>
MHOR say otherwise: avoidable manual handling.
Warm Worm
> The message <r%1fg.23$A8.2@clgrps12>
> from "Warm Worm" <m...@here.ca> contains these words:
>
>> That's nothing. During my last mission, we enountered a space anomaly that
>> had my ship's decks and hallways constantly twisting shifting, where it
>> became impossible to get anywhere we wanted to go.
>> The bridge was engineering, engineering was sickbay, an attractive
>> crewmember's quarters turned into mine, and so on...
>
> Find any pairs of size nine chukka boots?
>
For which species?
Phil Bradshaw
Does it matter when arse and elbow likely go with the anomaly too?
Bonnie Brien
I have NEVER heard of a weight restriction....and I live in a 6th floor
apt.
Bonnie
and I got a hospital bed too.
Dave Fawthrop
wrote:
You have a Bad Back or will have if you continue lifting heavy objects.
I was this week talking to a Nurse who still has a Bad Back from lifting
patients years ago
--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.
Dave Fawthrop
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
|In article <447cc82a$0$18247$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>,
| John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
|> Anything more than 35kg is defined as a two man lift by H&S these days.
|> Can't be many adults that weigh less than that.
|
|Especially since you can't assume the correct lifting position when
|getting someone out of bed.
Impossible would be a better desciption.
Martin Davies
Congratulations on not hearing about it. Doesn't prevent it existing though.
Martin <><
uk1
Steve Walker wrote:
> ju...@davidbevan.co.uk wrote:
> > Wasnt sure what news group to post this question to as it crosses
> > a few boundaries.
> >
> > Basically my disabled nan has been living at home (a bungalow) and
> > receiving help from Bromley social services to lift her out of bed
> > using a hoist and take her to the toilet etc. We all want her to
> > move in with my father who owns a house in Maidstone, but
> > Maidstone social services are not being entirely helpful and the
> > lastest hurdle is that they say a hospital bed is not allowed
> > upstairs - but they didnt give a reason.
> >
> > The bed does dismatle so we could get it up the stairs, but were
> > wondering if there was a weight restriction on the bedroom floor?
>
> More likely that they don't see any compelling necessity to carry all their
> equipment up and down in the course of her treatment & care (and
> occasionally carry her up & down too). There's a reasonable argument that
> this wastes staff time, raises H&S issues, etc.
uk1
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
> ju...@davidbevan.co.uk wrote:
> > Wasnt sure what news group to post this question to as it crosses a few
> > boundaries.
> >
> > Basically my disabled nan has been living at home (a bungalow) and
> > receiving help from Bromley social services to lift her out of bed
> > using a hoist and take her to the toilet etc. We all want her to move
> > in with my father who owns a house in Maidstone, but Maidstone social
> > services are not being entirely helpful and the lastest hurdle is that
> > they say a hospital bed is not allowed upstairs - but they didnt give a
> > reason.
** I have a fully loaded special hospital bed that was first downstairs
until I got my through the floor lift in... also the full works re
ceiling hoists etc.
This is now upstairs.
Social services (aka We Serve to make your life miserable... we relish
in the vunerable!!)
new rules that there must be at least 6ft around either side of the bed
and around furniture so the staff can work safeley in. My home is very
small, most rooms are from 12ft x 15ft upto 15ft x 24ft. I have been
informed either I get rid of all my furniture or I loose my care (24hrs
care) So I put all my furniture in to storeage, now I'm told my home is
too small, so they booked me in to Hospital awaiting a residential home
(lol) Charming (didn't happen of course) because the hospital & the
home didn't quite like me going to work & sometimes not returning
before 8pm then to go out again to run dogs & see horse at stables..
usually back by 10/11pm, then would have a nosey on computer to see
what business emails I could expect for morning @ office.
So the in the end I was abandoned @ home, no care, stayed in wheelchair
for 12wks in & out of hospital for sores (assistant dogs came too) Now
at home still no care from S/S though I am entitled & MP told them too
as well.
Sadly if you are very disabled they do not want you to live in the
comunity though their policies say they do! Me I'm just paraplegic
complegic 20% use of left arm otherwise okay.
I hope your Gran enjoys her bed up stairs.. I'm sure hers would not be
as heavy as mine & mines okay had it checked etc. Now she is living in
a house & not a bungalow..bedrooms are usually upstairs.. let her feel
normal. Good luck.
Sarah
> >
> > The bed does dismatle so we could get it up the stairs, but were
> > wondering if there was a weight restriction on the bedroom floor?
>
> I doubt that, I'd guess it's got more to do
> with fire evacuation.
uk1
>
> I hope your Gran enjoys her bed up stairs.. I'm sure hers would not be
> as heavy as mine & mines okay had it checked etc. Now she is living in
> a house & not a bungalow..bedrooms are usually upstairs.. let her feel
> normal. Good luck.
> Sarah
fire officer that I'm 100% disabled & in case of fire etc may be bed
ridden. Actually they are excellent whenever I have moved I have always
had the fire officer visit with the view to poss recommendations.. Free
advice to all whether disabled or not.
Nick
--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/can-a-hospital-bed-go-upstairs-252154-.htm
Unknown
> exit 2nd floor by alternative means (window, etc), leaving only the stairs as
> an exit route (with assistance). If stairwell is involved in fire ...
williamwright
Bill
Brian Gaff (Sofa)
Brian
--
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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