Alan Truelove: Further comments to BMC

[Current User]

From Alan Truelove--
sorry to clutter this newsgrp further, but the cowardly scum at the
Official British Mensa LSoft List (Mike Foster) insist on
communicating where their messages can neither be seen nor responded
to - a lawyer's dream
- - - - - -
Truelove v. Mensa International Ltd. et al; US District Court,
Maryland (Southern Division) PJM 97-3463
Plaintiff Exhibit P______

Note: The following is a true and complete copy of a Post to the
Official British Mensa Lsoft List referred to in The Amended Complaint
this case, with comments inserted in square brackets.
= = = = =
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 21:00:30 +0000 From: Mike Foster
<mi...@FMA-UK.DEMON.CO.UK> Subject: AT and unoff-mensa-uk-l
I'm sorry this post is so long but I have tried not to leave anything
unanswered. Frankly, I have had enough of the hassle caused by this
matter and can't be bothered with prolonging it through silence or the
lack of bothering to reply. Copies of this posting have been sent to:
the _Unofficial_ Mensa UK mailing List, the "moderators" of that list
& uk.org.mensa. May I begin by apologising for not replying in this
vein earlier but I have been extremely busy recently and, quite
frankly, this has not been a top priority (real life and keeping the
list running being more important to me). It would appear that Alan
Truelove's expulsion from the _Unofficial_ Mensa UK Mailing list
(UMUL) have caused quite a stir!! I'll attempt to answer as many of
the points raised as possible - but forgive me if I miss one or two
(I'm sure someone will point it out) <g> OK - here goes... With
regards to AT being removed from the list - here are my reasons. The
other mods may have other reasons for agreeing with this action and
upholding it but these are the reasons that the command was issued.
1 - He said we should make Prof. Brand a list member as it would save
him cutting and pasting messages to him. - This suggested to me that
he was breaching confidentiality of the list.

[Fact: The "suggestion" imputed by Mike Foster is totally false.
I said in a posting to the LSoft List:
"Subject:
Edinboro' Univ.-further world comment
To: UNOFF-ME...@home.ease.lsoft.com,
cbr...@cycad.com
From Alan Truelove--(British M). Wed Sept. 24th. I enjoyed the
thoughtful response from the gentleman at Liverpool Univ. (?) and have
cut and pasted as follows--however a suggestion-(a) wouldn't it be a
nice idea to confer on Prof. Chris Brand hon. membership of this list
??
I see he responds to the Mensa UK ListServer religiously in various
e-mails, & this would saveMY cut and paste time".

The first cut and paste above refers to my preparation of my Lsoft
List posting from material set forth by Prof. Brand in his WebPage.
The comment on prof. Bran "responding" means that he responded to
specific questions that had been raised in the list - namely, had his
book the "g factor" acgually been published? And did it received
favorable reviews? This questions were asked directly, without any
reference to any Mensa List or specific source or person. In other
words, goiing to the horse's mouth.]

.2 - I had reason to believe his email address was be shared (I now
see I was correct)
[Fact: Another totally irrelevant and malicious imputation.
The e-mail address, which is supplied by an e-mail/Internet provider,
is controlled solely by me, using a password known solely to me. All
material sent by the Lsoft List is sent to a mailbox, which can only
be accessed by me (since it is maintained on that Internet provider,
with password]. After removing material from that mailbox, I
immediately erase it or store it in a password-protected area with a
password known only to me. Any use of the provider (for example,
sending e-mails to anyone) is controlled 100% by me, and I am
personally log-on to the provider, and physically supervise the entire
session. I state that there has been no breach of confidentiality
whatsoever.
The above facts would be known to anyone having the slightest
acquaintance with e-mail. ]

3 - He was setting up a newsgroup (albeit private - I believe [?]) on
his ISPs server which would mirror UMUL - I did not feel confident
that he would not allow Brand and others access to this.
(Fact: The word 僧irror' was never used by me, this and the other
imputations are solely in Mike Foster's mind. I have referred
frequently over the last 12 months to myself (and/or others) setting
up a totally separate Newsgroup using the latest technology, which
would be password protected to the members of the group, and would use
the latest, standard Newsgroup technology. Many web-sites provide
this. The technology is vastly superior to the antiquated 銑ist'
technology. There has never been the slightest suggestion of
transferring material - other than, of course, at the author's
suggestion in rare cases].]

4 - In making our decisions we should consider the views of the list
as a whole - he was basically blackballed.
[Fact: This outrageous statement is totally at odds with Mensa's rules
since it was founded in 1946, and constitutes in itself an act
inimical by Foster. There is not, and never has been, any provision
for 礎lack-balling' anyone, from any member service or meeting.
Persons can be removed or banned from Mensa meetings under common law
violations, but presumably there is no suggestion of that here; and in
such cases the person would have a right of appeal.. Discipline can
only be imposed after a hearing which has specific procedure and rules
(albeit inadequate and unlawful) set forth in each National Mensa's
by-laws. Foster's fantasy agenda is a violation of the long-held rule
that "Mensa has no opinion".

5 - As mods we have absolute power - I used it. I still think I did
the right thing. The main reasons for his removal are the first 4, I
have included 5 as it is clearly stated in the constitution and I am
sure that someone will make an issue of a cover-up if I do not state
that fact 8-) I will be happy to produce the posting from AT which
refers to reasons 1 & 3 upon his permission to do so. His posts are
also covered by list confidentiality and I will not publish them
without his permission. The reason for this rule is that the list is a
private group of people who pay for it's running voluntarily and of
whom a few volunteer to help keep it running - the list is run like a
private party at a place owned by a third party (a pub??) namely
LSoft, and organised by these people who we currently call
"moderators". In a pub meet if the organisers decided that a
particular person was not welcome - they would ask them to leave and
would not admit them in future, they would be *very unlikely* to
impose the same conditions upon themseleves as the "moderators" of
UMUL do before taking this action. The role of the moderators is (in
an ideal world) - just to answer technical questions and solve any
technical problems the list may have and to do adim tasks like keeping
the files up to date and such like. Unfortunately there are
occasisions when it also falls into the "moderators" remit to solve
list disputes and to act in cases such as that of AT. The "mods" do
not see any posts before they appear on the list and have no powers to
remove them after they have appeared. In light of the confusion which
the name "moderators" appears to cause there is currently a
disscussion regarding changing the name of the "moderators" to
something else although a suitable alternative has not yet been
decided upon. 8-) The reason for the confiedntiality rule is to ensure
that members of the list can say things on list which they would not
wish to oppenly say in public (discussions of a personal nature) but
which they can say among a closed group of friends - an atmosphere
which, thankfully, is prevalent on the list. What the confiodentiality
rule says (AFAIUI) is that (unless stated otherwise in the post by
it's author) copies of the message are primarily designed for
recipients of UMUL but may also be sent to Mensa members if those
forwarding them are confident that the posts will remain within
British Mensa - It lies on the forwarder to be confident in the end
location of the posts and to take responsibility for it. I will only
make a brief comment with regards to the case of the other list member
(who I will not name [but will refer to as "X"] as I'm sure she has
had enough of the limelight already - and I'm sure you all know who
she is 8-) The mods considered the circumstances and acted according
to them, we also payed attention top the feelings of the list in
general (as we are meant to) - IMO X sent copies of relevant postings
only to an officer of the law as she truely belived that the posts
were illegal and therefore acted "in good faith" - [Truelove] [on the
other hand] did not copy posts for these "moral" reasons and there
were also other reasons for his expulsion (see above). The 2 cases
were entirely different and were treated as such. Finally - with
regards to the use of the name "Mensa" in the title of UMUL - we go
out of our way to make it obvious that the list is _unofficial_ by
including this in the title and by stating very clearly in the welcome
message that this is the case. I believe this is why we are able to
use the name - we can in no way be accused of purporting to be
official and make a big and unavoidable statement that we are not so.
Mike Foster Once again sorry for the length. -- Mike Foster email:
mi...@fma-uk.demon.co.uk (not lists.mike as this is for auto-lists
only) http://www.fma-uk.demon.co.uk/mike
------------------------------

[Note: With respect to the above apologia, I note that it differs
sharply from the original assertion, namely that of the
unsubstantiated claim that I had threated to post material elsewhere.
I seems it took five weeks for Mike Foster to come up with some other
"reasons", ludicrous as they may be.
- - - - - - - - - - -
Certificate:
The above material is a true and complete copy of a Post, including
heading, which appeared on the Lsoft list referred to in this case on
the date shown, with the exception of added comments in square
brackets, and substitution for one or two Newsgroup abbreviations.

Alan J. Truelove
Plaintiff pro se. November 7, 1997.

[JohnPaines]

Alan Truelove replies to Mike Foster:

>>4 - In making our decisions we should consider the views of
>>the list as a whole - he was basically blackballed.
>
>[Fact: This outrageous statement is totally at odds with
>Mensa's rules since it was founded in 1946, and constitutes in
> itself an act>inimical by Foster. There is not, and never has
>been, any provision
>for 礎lack-balling' anyone, from any member service or meeting.
>Persons can be removed or banned from Mensa meetings
>under common law
>violations, but presumably there is no suggestion of that here;

>and in such cases the person would have a right of appeal. >Discipline can

only be imposed after a hearing which has
>specific procedure and rules
>(albeit inadequate and unlawful) set forth in each National
>Mensa's by-laws. Foster's fantasy agenda is a violation of the >long-held rule
that "Mensa has no opinion".

Article 5(d) - "A member's proprietorial rights in his dwelling
house or home overrides any other member's invitation
(appearing in any publication of the Society) to visit it."

Sounds like the list members didn't want you in their house,
Alan. Why not go home quietly, instead of standing out in
the street shouting abuse?

John Paines

[Current User]

Alan Truelove writes:
John Paines attempts fraudulently to compare the Mensa Official LSoft
List to someone hosting a Mensa party in his/her house.
Bullshit.
The Official Mensa LSoft List is a membership service which uses the
Mensa name, and is advertised and promoted in official mensa
literature. It looks like a duck, walks like a duck; it is a duck.
Mensa has no opinion. Those of us who pioneered Mensa some 40 years
ago have had considerable experience with Johnnies-come-lately who
want to enforce their own political or social ideas on some subset of
Mensa. These people generally dry up and blow away after a short
time. However, if you sincerely want to set up Mensa Newsgroups and
Lists devoted to a particular philosophy,, it's simple. Propose an
amendment to the international Constitution & get it passed. In your
case, something like: Any group may set up a List, with the following
rules: Thou shall not utter a discouraging word about any
non-Caucasian section of the population. In particular any mention of
the following scientists or their standard texts is a nono: Sir Cyril
Burt (our founder), Art Jensen, Bill Shockley, Herrnstein/Murray,
Chris Brand, Eysenck, Dick Lynn and Phillipe Rushton. The same goes
for crime statistics, and economic studies on immigrants such as the
recent study by the Rand Corp., that well known hotbed of racism
(guess where yrs truly worked). Good luck, John!

[JohnPaines]

Alan Truelove writes:
>John Paines attempts fraudulently to compare the Mensa
>Official LSoft List to someone hosting a Mensa party in
>his/her house.
>Bullshit.

No I don't. I have never heard of the "Mensa Official LSoft
List" - what is it, please?

John Paines

[Current User]

Alan Truelove replies to:

johnp...@aol.com (JohnPaines) wrote:
>No I don't. I have never heard of the "Mensa Official LSoft
>List" - what is it, please?
>John Paines

Oh, that's an L-Soft List run by British Mensa, with Mensa in the
title, and copiously advertised on the official British M web-site
**and** in the British M Magazine (for Oct. AND Nov.) -- that
incidentally, and admittedly, imposes Political Correctness on its
members. (Mensa has no opinion? Did I read that soemwhere?)
That's what the Mensa Official LSoft List is.
(That giant sucking sound you hear is your annual dues going down the
drain to pay off for frivolous legal defense; just like the equiv. of
$250,000 American dues went down the drain in 1982, to save the face
of admitted stock-swindler and current IGC officer Gabe Werba. )

[Bernard Hatt]

Current User (qua...@crosslink.net) (Alan Truelove) wrote:
>
> Alan Truelove replies to:
> johnp...@aol.com (JohnPaines) wrote:
> >No I don't. I have never heard of the "Mensa Official LSoft
> >List" - what is it, please?
> >John Paines

> Oh, that's an L-Soft List run by British Mensa, with Mensa in the
> title, and copiously advertised on the official British M web-site
> **and** in the British M Magazine (for Oct. AND Nov.) -- that
> incidentally, and admittedly, imposes Political Correctness on its
> members. (Mensa has no opinion? Did I read that soemwhere?)
> That's what the Mensa Official LSoft List is.

Of course that's all peanuts compared with what's happening
on the 'Unofficial-Alan-Truelove' mailing list, but the first you'll
hear of it is when you are on the receiving end of a $1m lawsuit.

You must be responsible for it, as it has your name in the title,
regardless of the fact that you neither fund nor administer the list.

Putting a statement (advertising!) on your web site saying you
have no connection with the list could only provide further
evidence of your responsibility.

Bernard Hatt

[Current User]

From Alan Truelove--
putting a statement on the Official British LSoft List that it isn't
official is technically called "weaselling", an attempt to evade
responsibility.
Obey Mensa's own 52-year old rules (or go off and form your own PC
Club).
Mensa's repsonse to the Complaint is due December 4th.

[Rob Pearson]

In article <346982f6...@news.crosslink.net>, Current User ( alias
Alan Truelove) wrote:
> John Paines attempts fraudulently to compare the Mensa Official LSoft

> List to someone hosting a Mensa party in his/her house.
> Bullshit.

> The Official Mensa LSoft List is a membership service which uses the
> Mensa name, and is advertised and promoted in official mensa
> literature.

Ok, so if I decide to host a Mensa meeting - lets call it a 'Mensa Ale
Tasting Evening', in my own home, this would be naturally advertised
and promoted in the *official* British Mensa magazine, and using the
Mensa name.

So by your own reasoning I am *not* within my rights to prevent you
from entering my own house ?

P.S.
Based on past performance, any odds Mr. T does not respond to this ?

Rob

[Current User]

Alan Truelove, I'm responding, so shove it up your ****.
It has been tradition in Mnesa (and I got back one hell of a long time
before you, & I've held many more parties, in my house), that one can
exclude someone from one's house if they (i) Become drunk and/or vomit
(b) Grope female guests under their skirts, as one distinguished Wash
D.C. M started to do in his dotage (he through it was funny). (c)
Smoke pot or use illegal drugs (d) etc etc. Of course no one is going
to challenge this.
If you proffer an announcement in the local rag or website,
and then exclude people because you don't like them (or operate a
phony reservation scheme), then your privilege to announce will be
removed.
In the Official L-Soft List case, I was solely and explicitly
excluded because I violated PC guidelines (which have never been
communicated). If I wanted to join a Loony political club, I will do
so, thank you. Don't lie about Mensas's supposed "no opinion" in the
brochure and press releases. I won't let you get away with it.
Advertising Council anyone ??