Moving email from Gradwell to TSOhost

[Richard Tibbetts]

Can I just check I understand the process correctly, as I've not done
this before? If I do the following, there should be no lost email, and
minimal interruption of service for users?

1. De register domain from Gradwell (I need to contact them for .uk, but
can do this via an Authorisation Key for .net)

2. Register the domain with TSOhost, set up mailboxes, etc

3. Tell users to set up new TSOhost mailbox details, but keep old
Gradwell ones for now (but not use for outgoing mail)

4. Email will over a period (hours?) slow down and stop going to
Gradwell and switch to TSOhost, but Gradwell email will still be
readable by users (for how long? Until hosting account closed??). User
should copy any important mail to the TSOhost folders.

5. Repeat for other domains.

6. Once happy, close Gradwell account.

[Martin Liddle]

On 17/03/2017 10:59, Richard Tibbetts wrote:
> Can I just check I understand the process correctly, as I've not done
> this before? If I do the following, there should be no lost email, and
> minimal interruption of service for users?
>
> 1. De register domain from Gradwell (I need to contact them for .uk, but
> can do this via an Authorisation Key for .net)
>

Good luck with that bit. I gave up waiting for Gradwell after a couple
of weeks and went via Nominet at a cost of £10 plus VAT.

> 2. Register the domain with TSOhost, set up mailboxes, etc
>

I would set up the account with TSOHost as the first step. You can
transfer the DNS to TSOHost at the appropriate time but other setup work
can be done before DNS transfer.

> 3. Tell users to set up new TSOhost mailbox details, but keep old
> Gradwell ones for now (but not use for outgoing mail)
>

Yup.

> 4. Email will over a period (hours?) slow down and stop going to
> Gradwell and switch to TSOhost, but Gradwell email will still be
> readable by users (for how long? Until hosting account closed??). User
> should copy any important mail to the TSOhost folders.
>

The how long is difficult to quantify. I did the DNS switch late at
night. Email started to arrive via TSOHost within about three hours but
it took 24 hours before all the genuine email was going to TSOHost; spam
emails continued to arrive at Gradwell for several more days. Once the
switch had happened I was accessing the Gradwell email via webmail.

> 5. Repeat for other domains.
>

Yes.

> 6. Once happy, close Gradwell account.
>

Yes although I am still waiting for the promised refund from Gradwell.

Happy to help if you have any other questions.

--
Martin Liddle, Tynemouth Computer Services
Staveley, Chesterfield, Derbyshire UK

[Bob Evans]

In article <oagh7g$m0o$1...@dont-email.me>, Martin Liddle
<new...@tynecomp.co.uk> wrote

>On 17/03/2017 10:59, Richard Tibbetts wrote:
>> 4. Email will over a period (hours?) slow down and stop going to
>> Gradwell and switch to TSOhost,

>The how long is difficult to quantify.

The trick to this is all in the preparation.

IIRC the default TTL for MX records in Gradwell-hosted domains was
typically 86400 seconds - 24 hours). If, a couple of days before the
planned change-over, you reduce the TTL values at the Gradwell end to
e.g. 3600, then it should take the rest of the Internet no more than a
couple of hours to catch up once the switch is effected.

--
Bob Evans

[Chris S]

On Fri, 17 Mar 2017 11:30:37 +0000, Martin Liddle
<new...@tynecomp.co.uk> wrote:

>On 17/03/2017 10:59, Richard Tibbetts wrote:
>> Can I just check I understand the process correctly, as I've not done
>> this before? If I do the following, there should be no lost email, and
>> minimal interruption of service for users?
>>
>> 1. De register domain from Gradwell (I need to contact them for .uk, but
>> can do this via an Authorisation Key for .net)
>>
>Good luck with that bit. I gave up waiting for Gradwell after a couple
>of weeks and went via Nominet at a cost of £10 plus VAT.

NB. The £10 charge (£12 inc VAT) is per transaction not per domain i.e
you can transfer more than one domain in one transactiion. Open an
account first:

https://secure.nominet.org.uk/auth/login.html

and add your Nominet domains. You can then transfer Registrars either
individually or in batches to reduce costs at an appropriate time of
your choosing as Martin suggests below.

In fact transferring registars should be the last task for each
domain. You can (or could when I moved late last year) alter the zone
file for each domain (in one of the new panels for Gradwell Legacy
Hosting). AFAIR I did it in a 'sudden death' cutover, i.e. I changed
the nameserver fields from Gradwell to Tsohost addresses, because I
had problems changing other fields (MX etc) in a staggered cutover (eg
email first, then web site etc) although I later read in a post
someone had been able to update those fields.

Doing as above means that your Tsohost domain effectively becomes
fully functional while your domain(s) is/are still with Gradwell as
the registrar. Via the Tsohost account panels you can inform them in
advance you are transferring domains to them (final task before
transferring registrars) and then when you action a nominet
transaction, the transfer (of registrars) is almost instantaneous.

It is probably sensible to inform Gradwell that you have changed
registrars to complete the migration task. In my case I had asked
Gradwell to 'release' the domains (which in the past they have done
within hours of the request) but on the last occasion they failed to
respond, which is when I discovered I could do it myself for a small
charge.

[Richard Tibbetts]

On 17/03/2017 11:30, Martin Liddle wrote:
> On 17/03/2017 10:59, Richard Tibbetts wrote:

[...]

>
>> 2. Register the domain with TSOhost, set up mailboxes, etc
>>
> I would set up the account with TSOHost as the first step. You can
> transfer the DNS to TSOHost at the appropriate time but other setup work
> can be done before DNS transfer.

Thanks, that makes sense, if I can do that.

But how do I get the domain to show on the TSOhost web control panel for
me to set up the email details there? If I try and transfer it in as it
is I get an error

"Error: Availablity type mismatch - please contact support. Please quote
this error code: transfer”

(not surprising, as it's still registered to Gradwell).

[Martin Liddle]

Are you going to use the cloud hosting or CPanel at TSOHost?

[Richard Tibbetts]

On 19/03/2017 15:13, Martin Liddle wrote:
> On 19/03/2017 12:46, Richard Tibbetts wrote:
>> On 17/03/2017 11:30, Martin Liddle wrote:
>>
>> But how do I get the domain to show on the TSOhost web control panel for
>> me to set up the email details there? If I try and transfer it in as it
>> is I get an error
>>
>> "Error: Availablity type mismatch - please contact support. Please quote
>> this error code: transfer”
>>
>> (not surprising, as it's still registered to Gradwell).
>>
> Are you going to use the cloud hosting or CPanel at TSOHost?
>

I've got a cloud hosting account.

[Martin Liddle]

Have you watched the migration video at
https://www.tsohost.com/knowledge-base/search?q=migrations

The first set is to login into the Cloud control panel at
https://control.gridhost.co.uk/members/ (this is distinct from your
TSOHost.com account) and hit the add new web site button. After a short
delay you should then be able to start setting up email accounts.

[Richard Tibbetts]

On 19/03/2017 17:37, Martin Liddle wrote:
> On 19/03/2017 16:23, Richard Tibbetts wrote:
>> On 19/03/2017 15:13, Martin Liddle wrote:
>>> On 19/03/2017 12:46, Richard Tibbetts wrote:
>>>> On 17/03/2017 11:30, Martin Liddle wrote:

[...]

>>
> Have you watched the migration video at
> https://www.tsohost.com/knowledge-base/search?q=migrations
>
> The first set is to login into the Cloud control panel at
> https://control.gridhost.co.uk/members/ (this is distinct from your
> TSOHost.com account) and hit the add new web site button. After a short
> delay you should then be able to start setting up email accounts.
>

No, I'd not seen that. Thanks for the info.

[Richard Tibbetts]

That doesn't actually help, as a pre-requisite of accessing the email
creation stuff is having moved the domain across. I was hoping for a way
to create the mailboxes *before* porting the domain over, to avoid a
pause in service to users.

[Molly Mockford]

At 10:54:20 on Mon, 20 Mar 2017, Richard Tibbetts
<ric...@primepeace.ltd.uk> wrote in <oaocct$17tj$1...@gioia.aioe.org>:

Have you raised a ticket with Support, asking for help in getting things
started? I have found them extremely helpful, and definitely
knowledgeable (although they can suffer from the same problem as most
helpdesks in that they will start under the assumption that the problem
is as simple as possible, before being willing to move things up a notch
when one explains that it isn't that simple at all, and that if it were
one wouldn't have needed to open a ticket!) If you are accustomed to
the week-and-a-half or more it can take Gradwell to respond to a ticket
these days, you will be pleasantly surprised with TsoHost's response
times which are amazingly speedy.
--
Molly Mockford
Nature loves variety. Unfortunately, society hates it. (Milton Diamond Ph.D.)
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)

[Martin Liddle]

On 20/03/2017 10:54, Richard Tibbetts wrote:
>> https://www.tsohost.com/knowledge-base/search?q=migrations
>>
>> The first set is to login into the Cloud control panel at
>> https://control.gridhost.co.uk/members/ (this is distinct from your
>> TSOHost.com account) and hit the add new web site button. After a short
>> delay you should then be able to start setting up email accounts.
>>
>
> That doesn't actually help, as a pre-requisite of accessing the email
> creation stuff is having moved the domain across. I was hoping for a way
> to create the mailboxes *before* porting the domain over, to avoid a
> pause in service to users.

So what happened when you hit the "New web site" button?

[Chris S]

I suspect you may be confusing making intermediate changes to the DNS
zone files on Gradwell with transferring registrars. I have moved over
half a dozen domains from Gradwell to Tsohost; both pre and post
Gradwell's 'migration' to their cloud legacy hosting management
panels. I don't these days have any other users to worry about but I
am still my own user (multiple domains and two mail clients).

1. You don't have to make any DNS changes at Gradwell in advance of
setting up web and mail hosting configurations on Tsohost.

2. Before the control panel changes at Gradwell (from Developer
account panels to the cloud legacy hosting panels) moves took place in
the following staggered fashion:

2.1 Create a new 'temporary' zone file for the domain being moved:

2.2 Change MX record to point to Tsohost mail servers. AFAIR users are
still able to access their Gradwell mail boxes at this point, all
that's changed is that incoming mail will be sent (progressively as MX
field change propagates) to Tsohost's gridhost servers. In addition
the new Tsohost mailboxes can also accessed as they are gridhost and
not bespoke domain addressed.

2.3 When 2.2 complete change A records so web site is delivered from
Tsohost.

2.4 When 2.3 complete change NS records to point to Tsohost
nameservers.

3. At this point subject to zone file changes propagation, all dns
requests will be directed to Tsohost.

4. Finally, transfer registrar's by whatever process suits you best.
Before the control panel changes I used to make the Tsohost account
panel change notifying Tsohost of the incoming transfer, change the
Tag in the Gradwell panels and raise a ticket to Gradwell to 'release
the domain'. More recently, partly because I couldn't locate where to
change the Tag on the new Gradwell panels and partly because Gradwell
were ignoring tickets raised for them to do it, I did it myself by
opening an account with Nominet.

5. Another difference since Gradwell implemented the new Cloud legacy
hosting panels is that I went straight to 2.4 as I had problems
changing the other records (MX, A etc) in the new Gradwell panels.
This may have been down to a mental block on my part, i.e. maybe I
gave up to soon.

Chris S

[Richard Tibbetts]

On 20/03/2017 12:41, Molly Mockford wrote:
> At 10:54:20 on Mon, 20 Mar 2017, Richard Tibbetts
> <ric...@primepeace.ltd.uk> wrote in <oaocct$17tj$1...@gioia.aioe.org>:

[...]

>
> Have you raised a ticket with Support, asking for help in getting things
> started? I have found them extremely helpful, and definitely
> knowledgeable (although they can suffer from the same problem as most
> helpdesks in that they will start under the assumption that the problem
> is as simple as possible, before being willing to move things up a notch
> when one explains that it isn't that simple at all, and that if it were
> one wouldn't have needed to open a ticket!) If you are accustomed to
> the week-and-a-half or more it can take Gradwell to respond to a ticket
> these days, you will be pleasantly surprised with TsoHost's response
> times which are amazingly speedy.

Yes, did so yesterday, and they have indeed been helpful. Hopefully I'm
on the way to getting this sorted now - thanks to the several replies
here for getting me to understand what I needed to ask!

[Richard Tibbetts]

On 17/03/2017 10:59, Richard Tibbetts wrote:

Thanks for all the help, I'm nearly there with this, but I have come
across something curious. Perhaps someone can advise.

I've now transferred several email accounts to TSOhost, and they seem to
be working fine. Several more still to go. However, after cancelling
the first of these on my Gradwell account, it still shows through whois
as having the DNS set to Gradwell (the registrar etc points correctly to
TSOhost). I have an MX record on Gradwell pointing to TSOhost, so I
guess that is how it is working. But if I change the DNS at Gradwell to
external, the email stops (presumably because whois points to Gradwell
for the DNS).

Any ideas? Do I take this up with Gradwell or TSOhost??

[Chris S]

This is probably not going to be helpful as I am not familiar with
your set-up or your migration plan.

AFAIR, when I migrated sites from Gradwell I kept it fairly simple eg
I did not migrate individual email accounts as separate phases if you
like, just all email for a particular domain. So I would change the MX
record for domain 1 and check all was OK. Next I would change the A
record for the web component. Finally, I would change the NS records
from Demon to Tsohost. The absolute final stage for domain 1 would be
changing the registrar.

This would be repeated on a domain by domain basis.

My migration 'plan' was spread over a year or more; primarily due to
lethargy on my part. I did have at the back of my mind keeping one
domain at Gradwell but that was binned when Gradwell initiated the
'Cloud Legacy' debacle.

So my migration plan just involved making changes to DNS records i.e.
not clear what effect changing the DNS at Gradwell to external has.

Chris S

[David Gibson]

On 10/05/2017 16:32, Richard Tibbetts wrote:

> I've now transferred several email accounts to TSOhost, and they seem to
> be working fine. Several more still to go. However, after cancelling
> the first of these on my Gradwell account, it still shows through whois
> as having the DNS set to Gradwell (the registrar etc points correctly to
> TSOhost). I have an MX record on Gradwell pointing to TSOhost, so I
> guess that is how it is working. But if I change the DNS at Gradwell to
> external, the email stops (presumably because whois points to Gradwell
> for the DNS).
>
> Any ideas? Do I take this up with Gradwell or TSOhost??

TSOhost - if you cannot sort it out yourself on your TSOhost control panel.

I think youre saying...

* your domain is showing as registered via TSOhost

* At TSOhost, you (or they?) have configured your nameservers to point
to Gradwell

* At Gradwell, you have an MX record pointing back to TSOhost

> But if I change the DNS at Gradwell to
> external, the email stops (presumably because whois points to
> Gradwell for the DNS).

Yes. The Internet thinks your nameserver is at Gradwell, but Gradwell is
saying "Its not here, Ive been told its external". I think that's what's
going on, anyway.

So...what you need to do is to point your nameservers to TSOhost and set
up your MX record there.

Ive not used TSOhost, but I presume you can go into some sort of control
panel there and say "I want to use your nameservers" or "host my DNS
internally" or whatever. Then, once you have done that, you need to set
up your DNS, at TSOhost, to say where you want your A and MX records to
point to (presumably to TSO, so there might be a setting for "use simple
DNS" or "use default settings" ... or ?

Clearly, if youre moving away from Gradwell, you want nothing to be left
pointing to Gradwell.

FWIW - I make a point of *NOT* using the same ISP for hosting my
nameservers and my websites. My domains are registered at 123-reg and I
use 123-reg's nameservers, but I use their "advanced DNS settings" to
point off their site, to my hosted web sites and email servers, which
are (currently) at Memset.

Separating the DNS hosting from the web hosting *can* lead to problems,
depending on how versatile your web ISP is. But it means youre not left
with all your eggs in one basket.



--
David Gibson

[Chris S]

On Thu, 11 May 2017 14:00:03 +0100, David Gibson <david@[127.0.0.1]>
wrote:

>Ive not used TSOhost, but I presume you can go into some sort of control
>panel there and say "I want to use your nameservers" or "host my DNS
>internally" or whatever. Then, once you have done that, you need to set
>up your DNS, at TSOhost, to say where you want your A and MX records to
>point to (presumably to TSO, so there might be a setting for "use simple
>DNS" or "use default settings" ... or ?

If it's their cloud hosting package you just add a new website via
their cloud dashboard. You are then given the web and email IP's to
use. It's a shared platform so assuming you have configured everything
you need to (i.e. replicated at Tsohost your Gradwell site for that
domain, mailboxes etc), it will just sit their waiting. You then
control migration by modifying Gradwell DNS for the required domain in
what ever order you prefer.

Finally when you are ready to make the registrar transfer you start
the process via your Tsohost client area 'dashboard' where there is a
panel for transferring in domains.

Chris S

[Richard Tibbetts]

On 11/05/2017 14:00, David Gibson wrote:
> On 10/05/2017 16:32, Richard Tibbetts wrote:

[...]

> Ive not used TSOhost, but I presume you can go into some sort of control
> panel there and say "I want to use your nameservers" or "host my DNS
> internally" or whatever. Then, once you have done that, you need to set
> up your DNS, at TSOhost, to say where you want your A and MX records to
> point to (presumably to TSO, so there might be a setting for "use simple
> DNS" or "use default settings" ... or ?

Yes, I think that was it. I (being a complete novice with these things)
hadn't set up the DNS records at tsohost, just the MX records. Having
set up the internal DNS at tsohost, and set gradwell to external (and
deleted the existing DNS & MX records there) it now seems to be working
as I wanted, and whois looks right too.

Thanks!