accidentals, ties and repeated notes

[Mike Scott]

Opinions seem to differ here, I wondered what the 'team' thought.

The situation is a note (X) at the end of a measure has an accidental.
That note is tied to the first note (Y) in the next measure; later in
that second measure the same note is repeated (note Z).

The particular music I have has /no/ accidentals at all printed in the
second measure. However, it's quite clear from listening that the
original accidental is intended to apply from where it appears right
through the second measure. Interestingly, that's how my wife
instinctively played it ('fraid I don't play :-( )

abc2midi honours the accidental for X and Y, then drops it for note Z.

Advice on the web is sketchy and not altogether consistent.

What are peoples' thoughts please on the correct notation? Is my printed
music 'wrong', or is abc2midi at fault? Or is there perhaps no
consistent standard?



--
Mike Scott (unet2 <at> [deletethis] scottsonline.org.uk)
Harlow Essex England

[Richard Robinson]

I'd think, the last. There is no single definitive set of rules, and anyway
no police force to make people stick to them.

There could be clues from context, of course; is it a transcription of
something someone played, or is the notation the primary authority, and if
so, how pedantic is the writer known to be, and so on ? the local culture.

(If it was known-to-be-pedantic ABC, the difference between a slur and a tie
would give you the first one ... but, what are the chances ?)

I think I'd almost certainly assume the note continued across the barline
would have its pitch unchanged, unless there were very strong reasons to
think otherwise. The Z case, I don't think I'd want to generalise, apart
from "see what it sounds like, and what other such music might do". (If I
was coding it into software, I'd want to use a variable whose value the user
would have to decide for themself ...)

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://www.qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

[Philip Hazel]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2011, Richard Robinson wrote:

> I think I'd almost certainly assume the note continued across the barline
> would have its pitch unchanged, unless there were very strong reasons to
> think otherwise. The Z case, I don't think I'd want to generalise, apart
> from "see what it sounds like, and what other such music might do".

I consulted Garner Read's "Music Notation". In the section on
traditional practices for accidentals, he makes it clear that the
accidental does apply to Y but not to Z. However, he goes on thus "But
because the player's eye -- seeing another note on the same line or
space -- might mislead him into repeating the accidental, it is wise to
put in any desired natural sign, in parentheses, as a gentle reminder."

Kurt Stone's "Music Notation in the Twentieth Century" has an example
that explicitly points out that an accidental is needed before Z if its
pitch is to be altered.

If I was typesetting this, I would probably put in either a reminder
accidental or natural sign, if I knew which was intended by the
composer.

Philip

--
Philip Hazel

[Richard Robinson]

Philip Hazel said:
>
> If I was typesetting this, I would probably put in either a reminder
> accidental or natural sign, if I knew which was intended by the
> composer.

Yes. (and, failing that, wish that the composer had)

[Phil Taylor]

In article <alpine.LNX.2.00.1...@quercite.quercite.com>,

I agree with that. It's something which has been discussed at various
times in the abcusers list, and the consensus there is that the
accidental is carried over the bar line to second note, but not onto
the third note.

Phil Taylor

[Mike Scott]

OK, thanks all; I get the drift.

I had a rummage through a few bits of printed music. The situation
doesn't seem all that common - but the only example I did find was a
piece by Coleridge-Taylor (a Humoresque, iirc) which had such a tied
note with accidental - and then the note Z had a cancelling natural sign
(sans 'reminder' brackets): it suggests whoever set it thought the
accidental /did/ carry on.

But it looks as though abc2midi is correct and the printed music I've
been transcribing is wrong. More care needed here in future :-)


Thanks again.