Re: Dotting and slurring in ABC for "Shoe the donkey"
Peter Thomas
Bell <mic...@beaverbell.co.uk> writes
>I want to discuss in a text document the playing of "Shoe the donkey",
>the first bar of which goes like this :-
>
>L 1/4
>K: G
>
>G A B d
>
>But the G and A are a dotted pair. Would it be correct to write
>
>G>A B d ?
>
>But I also want to discuss the slurring of the G and A pair. Am I
>right that as written above, there is no indication of slurring? But
>should the A be slurred to the G or to the B? Can I write the two
>alternatives :-
>
>(G > A) B d, the G slurred to the A
>
>and
>
>G > (A B) d, the A slurred to the B?
>
>Michael Bell
>
>
>
>
>
>
Cross-posted to uk.music.notation
--
Peter Thomas
Mike Scott
> In message <758ef0af51....@michael.beaverbell.co.uk>, Michael
> Bell <mic...@beaverbell.co.uk> writes
>> I want to discuss in a text document the playing of "Shoe the donkey",
>> the first bar of which goes like this :-
>>
>> L 1/4
>> K: G
>>
>> G A B d
>>
>> But the G and A are a dotted pair. Would it be correct to write
>>
>> G>A B d ?
A straight dotted pair would be G3/2A/
What you've written will /print/ similarly, but play in a swung rhythm,
as if it meant G2/3A1/3
But your tune seems different from renderings on the net (eg
http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/SHO_SHU.htm )
>>
>> But I also want to discuss the slurring of the G and A pair. Am I
>> right that as written above, there is no indication of slurring? But
Correct.
>> should the A be slurred to the G or to the B? Can I write the two
>> alternatives :-
>>
>> (G > A) B d, the G slurred to the A
>>
>> and
>>
>> G > (A B) d, the A slurred to the B?
Those are correct abc renderings for your descriptions. I doubt whether
the second is what you want, but it depends on how the tune sounds (eg
for guitar, a slur indicates a hammer or a pull-off; for a clarinet it
indicates absence of tonguing).
BTW don't forget for tailed notes, beaming depends on whether or not
there are spaces between the notes.
L:1/8
ABCD A B C D
gives a beamed group of 4 quavers, then 4 separated quavers.
--
Mike Scott (unet2 <at> [deletethis] scottsonline.org.uk)
Harlow Essex England
Michael Bell
Mike Scott <usen...@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> wrote:
> Correct.
To put it into context, I play English concertina.
Michael Bell
--
Phil Taylor
<usen...@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> wrote:
> On 07/03/11 12:45, Peter Thomas wrote:
> > In message <758ef0af51....@michael.beaverbell.co.uk>, Michael
> > Bell <mic...@beaverbell.co.uk> writes
> >> I want to discuss in a text document the playing of "Shoe the donkey",
> >> the first bar of which goes like this :-
> >>
> >> L 1/4
> >> K: G
> >>
> >> G A B d
> >>
> >> But the G and A are a dotted pair. Would it be correct to write
> >>
> >> G>A B d ?
>
> A straight dotted pair would be G3/2A/
That is exactly what G>A means - it's just a shortcut needing fewer
keystrokes.
>
> What you've written will /print/ similarly, but play in a swung rhythm,
> as if it meant G2/3A1/3
In what program? Unless the player program is using a stress program
to modify playing (ABCMus and BarFly can do this) it should play
exactly what's written.
>
> But your tune seems different from renderings on the net (eg
> http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/SHO_SHU.htm )
>
> >>
> >> But I also want to discuss the slurring of the G and A pair. Am I
> >> right that as written above, there is no indication of slurring? But
>
> Correct.
>
> >> should the A be slurred to the G or to the B? Can I write the two
> >> alternatives :-
> >>
> >> (G > A) B d, the G slurred to the A
> >>
> >> and
> >>
> >> G > (A B) d, the A slurred to the B?
>
> Those are correct abc renderings for your descriptions. I doubt whether
> the second is what you want, but it depends on how the tune sounds (eg
> for guitar, a slur indicates a hammer or a pull-off; for a clarinet it
> indicates absence of tonguing).
It can do. The exact meaning of slur markings is a little ill-defined.
It can simply be a phrase marking, or more specifically an instruction
to play the notes legato (so each note sounds for it's musical
duration, with no gaps between them). Exactly how you do that depends
on the instrument, as in the above two examples.
Phil Taylor
Mike Scott
.....
>> A straight dotted pair would be G3/2A/
>
> That is exactly what G>A means - it's just a shortcut needing fewer
> keystrokes.
>>
>> What you've written will /print/ similarly, but play in a swung rhythm,
>> as if it meant G2/3A1/3
>
> In what program? Unless the player program is using a stress program
> to modify playing (ABCMus and BarFly can do this) it should play
> exactly what's written.
Now there's an interesting issue. I know for sure abc2midi does what
I've described (I've just tested it) which is why I wrote what I did.
However, I do see that Guido Gonzanto's excellent document describes
things in the way you do.
So I'll apologize to the OP, but with the caveat that things do look
inconsistent in this area.
Michael Bell
Mike Scott <usen...@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> wrote:
> Correct.
Forgive my ignorance, but groups like this are here to guide the
ignorant, but in what way do
1)a beamed group of 4 quavers
and
2)4 separated quavers.
sound different?
Yes, it is something I was afraid to ask!
Michael Bell
--
anahata
> Forgive my ignorance, but groups like this are here to guide the
> ignorant, but in what way do
>
> 1)a beamed group of 4 quavers
> and
> 2)4 separated quavers.
>
> sound different?
They don't sound different, but they look different when printed.
The message you were replying to mentioned that *slurring* might affect
the sound, but that's different from beaming.
The main distinction between beamed and unbeamed quavers is that vocal
music often doesn't use beaming, while instrumental music tends to beam
in groups per beat, though for example in a bar of 4/4 containing eight
quavers in a row it's a matter of taste whether you beam in two groups of
four or four groups of two.
I've heard that beaming is increasingly used in vocal music now. I
suppose it's a "house style" decision if you are a music publisher.
--
Anahata
ana...@treewind.co.uk --/-- http://www.treewind.co.uk
+44 (0)1638 720444
Mike Scott
I only mentioned it because the OP seemed inconsistent in his spacing,
and thought a warning might be in order.
As regards conventional use of beaming, yes, it certainly differs for
vocal pieces, where even the splitting of notes across beats differs
from instrumental conventions. No idea about concertinas though :-)
Philip Hazel
> The main distinction between beamed and unbeamed quavers is that vocal
> music often doesn't use beaming,
The tradition in vocal music is only to beam when the notes concerned
apply to the same sung syllable.
Philip
--
Philip Hazel
Michael Bell
Philip Hazel <ph...@hermes.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> Philip
That's certainly a help when you're singing it because if all the
notes are the same syllable, then they must be slurred.
A concertina is a sustaining instrument, and so staccato and legato
("slurring") are equally easy. It's a very flexible and underrated
instrument.
The main reason I asked this question is to ask how to notate slurring
in ABC, and I have found the answers. Thank you all. And I have found
out more too, as you often do in newsgroups.
ABC puts so much more down on a per square inch of paper, and is so
much handier for discussion in a text document.
Michael Bell
--
anahata
> The tradition in vocal music is only to beam when the notes concerned
> apply to the same sung syllable.
Thank you. That makes perfect sense at last.
(you can tell I'm not a singer...)