(Tokai) Les Paul - Jimmy Page Wiring
Bigus
with the pickups & wiring :-)
The pups on the guitar are apparently Tokai PAF 57's which do sound pretty
nice. However, I note that on the higher range Jap Love Rock's, like the the
LS200 & LS320 they use Seymour Duncan's (reference point being
http://www.tokairegistry.com/tokai-info/tokai-gibson-models.html). It
doesn't say which model of Seymour's though.
So, I'm thinking maybe I could fit some Seymour Duncans, or indeed the
previously suggested Burstbuckers. The latter are rather expensive but then
I imagine the Seymour's probably are too. Anyway, cost issues aside there is
something else I'm thinking of. I found this wiring diagram on a forum
somewhere, the (alleged) Jimmy Page wiring:
http://www.creationfactor.net/misc/page-wiring.jpg
Looks interesting and would expand the versatility of the sound. Has anyone
tried it, or similar on a (Tokai) Love Rock? Is it any good?
Thanks
Bigus
Dave Benj
<snip Seymour Duncans, or
<snip> Burstbuckers
<snip> expensive
Kent Armstrong do some good pickups for less money. I've got a pair of
JBs on a Flying V.
There are a number of people round here who will sing the praises of
ToneRider pickups.
I've got a pair of their alnico PAFs but I'm still in the process of
fitting them to a semi-acoustic so I can't comment - yet
<snip> Jimmy Page wiring:
IIRC It's a coil split on each pickup plus a series/parallel switch
and an in/out of phase switch.
It potentially offers a lot of different sonic possibilities, whether
they are useful to you or not, only you can decide :-)
There are any number of kits on e-Bay with the bits and pieces to re-
wire a Les Paul in this manner.
It's not too pricey and fairly straightforward to do.
NickM
"Bigus" <a_pe...@anyolddomain.fake> wrote in message
news:5LvOl.61445$HZ1....@newsfe15.iad...
So you got one then :-) Are you pleased with it?
I have Seymour Duncan pickups in mine - a Pearly Gates pair (neck and
bridge). The original pickups sounded nice and very close to the Gibson Les
Paul Custom pickups to my ear, but the SD's do have a tone and depth of
their own. They're just wired straight though
Frank A Muller
> <snip> Jimmy Page wiring:
>
> IIRC It's a coil split on each pickup plus a series/parallel switch
> and an in/out of phase switch.
Apart from the phase switch, that's reminiscent of the 1982 Ibanez Artist I own
which has a three-way toggle for each PU HB/SC/PC.
> It potentially offers a lot of different sonic possibilities, whether
> they are useful to you or not, only you can decide :-)
It can be useful to flick from SC for rhythm work to HB for soloing.
Frank A Muller
Bigus
"NickM" <ni...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:P8mdnY24VuLdm5bX...@giganews.com...
> So you got one then :-)
Yes, this :-)
http://www.creationfactor.net/misc/tokai-ls80.jpg
It's a 2006 Jap LS80 for not much more cash than it would have cost to buy a
Korean/Chinese one in a shop.
> Are you pleased with it?
Yes, the pickups (Tokai PAF 57's) give a nice sound with more sustain than
my SG and a fatter warmer sound. I'd rather have had one without the pick
guard fitted but can't have everything when you're on a budget! Suppose I
could take it off and screw the screws back into the holes - might look
slightly odd but probably wouldn't notice it after a while.
> I have Seymour Duncan pickups in mine - a Pearly Gates pair (neck and
> bridge). The original pickups sounded nice and very close to the Gibson
> Les Paul Custom pickups to my ear, but the SD's do have a tone and depth
> of their own. They're just wired straight though
The Pearly Gates are one of the SD models that I was thinking of, although
they are about as much as burstbuckers. I think the half cream, half black
ones would look cool.
Bigus
Bigus
"Dave Benj" <dave.be...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:bcea450c-a5be-4b4f...@e23g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
> On 13 May, 09:43, "Bigus" <a_per...@anyolddomain.fake> wrote:
>
> <snip Seymour Duncans, or
> <snip> Burstbuckers
> <snip> expensive
>
> Kent Armstrong do some good pickups for less money. I've got a pair of
> JBs on a Flying V.
> There are a number of people round here who will sing the praises of
> ToneRider pickups.
> I've got a pair of their alnico PAFs but I'm still in the process of
> fitting them to a semi-acoustic so I can't comment - yet
Think I've got a pair of Kent Armstrong's lying around somewhere. Not sure
they'd be better than the existing Tokai 57's though. Been looking around at
different pickups and reviews, it's quite difficult thing to choose. You
wont know what they are really going to sound like till you fit them to the
guitar and then I guess alot of it is personal taste.
> <snip> Jimmy Page wiring:
>
> IIRC It's a coil split on each pickup plus a series/parallel switch
> and an in/out of phase switch.
> It potentially offers a lot of different sonic possibilities, whether
> they are useful to you or not, only you can decide :-)
>
> There are any number of kits on e-Bay with the bits and pieces to re-
> wire a Les Paul in this manner.
> It's not too pricey and fairly straightforward to do.
Ahh yes found them, cool. Probably wouldn't need a new selector switch or
jack socket, so might be able to source the components cheaper individually.
Bigus
Dave Benj
It's not too pricey and fairly straightforward to do.
>
> Ahh yes found them, cool. Probably wouldn't need a new selector switch or
> jack socket, so might be able to source the components cheaper individually.
Kari
Hi,
About humbucker wiring, Seymour Duncan has this:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/triple-shot/triple_shot_swi/
It'll give you easy switching for each pickup. It's not particularly
cheap though.
-- Kari
Bigus
"Kari" <kvieri...@xxxxyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1242307499.863653@vanews01...
Interesting, not seen those. �45 each.. ouch. I think I'll stick with some
push-pulls :-)
nickm
"Bigus" <a_pe...@anyolddomain.fake> wrote in message
Woo hoo :-) Shiny, shiny.
Nice looking guitar. It looks very similar to mine in terms of colour and
finish inc the pick guard. I have the SD's in there though. I can't
remember what model mine is - there are differences between them - but it's
difficult to ID one of these. I know mine's Japanese, an LS and a 2003
model from the serial # but there's nowhere visible with the model number
stamped - however there may be something under the covers at the back of the
guitar - or I have my receipt somewhere :-) Not really relevant unless I
want to sell it- which I don't
Yes, the Zebra style pickups would look good.
You could take the pick-guard off anyway and sensitiveley fill the holes
with someting similar in colour as shine without spoiling the guitar and you
could always put the pick guard back on.
Bigus
"nickm" <ni...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:4a0c3444$0$2549$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
> Woo hoo :-) Shiny, shiny.
>
> Nice looking guitar. It looks very similar to mine in terms of colour and
> finish inc the pick guard. I have the SD's in there though. I can't
> remember what model mine is - there are differences between them - but
> it's difficult to ID one of these. I know mine's Japanese, an LS and a
> 2003 model from the serial # but there's nowhere visible with the model
> number stamped - however there may be something under the covers at the
> back of the guitar - or I have my receipt somewhere :-) Not really
> relevant unless I want to sell it- which I don't
This page has some info on IDing a Love Rock:
http://www.musicradar.com/forum/showthread.php?p=394786
> Yes, the Zebra style pickups would look good.
Will see about that :-). Decided on a couple of Seymours after much reading
of reviews on harmony central & elsewhere: an SH4 JB for the bridge and an
SH2 Jazz for the neck.
Cheapest I could find was: www.crazytrainmusic.co.uk. The pair for �119 incl
delivery.
> You could take the pick-guard off anyway and sensitiveley fill the holes
> with someting similar in colour as shine without spoiling the guitar and
> you could always put the pick guard back on.
I'm thinking of airfix paint on the screws ;-)
Bigus
Bigus
Thanks. They do the push pull pots cheaper than the other places I was
looking, so bits on order :-)
nickm
> This page has some info on IDing a Love Rock:
>
> http://www.musicradar.com/forum/showthread.php?p=394786
>
>> Yes, the Zebra style pickups would look good.
>
> Will see about that :-). Decided on a couple of Seymours after much
> reading of reviews on harmony central & elsewhere: an SH4 JB for the
> bridge and an SH2 Jazz for the neck.
>
> Cheapest I could find was: www.crazytrainmusic.co.uk. The pair for �119
> incl delivery.
>
>> You could take the pick-guard off anyway and sensitiveley fill the holes
>> with someting similar in colour as shine without spoiling the guitar and
>> you could always put the pick guard back on.
>
> I'm thinking of airfix paint on the screws ;-)
Thanks for the link - confirms my suspicion that there are probably some ID
marks inside the pickup cavities or somewhere under one of the covers.
Mine has a one piece back, solid maple top, one piece neck and headstock,
Made in Japan 2003 serial number, dimple in the headstock, 2 screw truss rod
cover, feels very much like the real thing from Gibson in terms of weight,
not sure of the type of finish to be honest except it's a very similar
cherry sunburst to yours - looks and feels like nitro-cellulose but these
days it could easily be something else. I'll lift the pickups over the
weekend and see what, if anything it tells me. Not really a problem as it's
a really nice guitar, but now I've set on the task of finding out what model
it is, I won't rest until I know :-)
I don't think the screw holes will be that big and it would be more a case
of colouring any bare wood with a suitable tiny dab of the right color car
paint inside the screw hole, letting it dry thoroughly and then filling the
remainder with a tiny drop of Loctite's best so that it leaves a very slight
(and I mean VERY slight dome when it's gone off fully), and then you could
try flatting it down, but superglue does sometimes end up setting a bit
harder than the surrounding finish and you can easily rub through, so
personally I'd get it as close as possible and leave it alone otherwise it
could end up being a mess. It's only a cosmetic thing and anyone a few feet
away won't see the screw holes anyway if they are disguised a bit. Or you
could take it to a pro and get the screw holes filled properly so you won't
be able to tell. You can make things a lot worse by tryin to fill holes
without taking extreme care and sufficient time. You could also change the
pickup rings and the pick guard for black ones or custom finished ones. A
halfway house might be to get a clear pickguard made :-)
Regards
Nick
Bigus
>
>
>> This page has some info on IDing a Love Rock:
>>
>> http://www.musicradar.com/forum/showthread.php?p=394786
>>
>>> Yes, the Zebra style pickups would look good.
>>
>> Will see about that :-). Decided on a couple of Seymours after much
>> reading of reviews on harmony central & elsewhere: an SH4 JB for the
>> bridge and an SH2 Jazz for the neck.
>>
>> Cheapest I could find was: www.crazytrainmusic.co.uk. The pair for �119
>> incl delivery.
>>
>>> You could take the pick-guard off anyway and sensitiveley fill the holes
>>> with someting similar in colour as shine without spoiling the guitar and
>>> you could always put the pick guard back on.
>>
>> I'm thinking of airfix paint on the screws ;-)
>
> Thanks for the link - confirms my suspicion that there are probably some
> ID marks inside the pickup cavities or somewhere under one of the covers.
>
> Mine has a one piece back, solid maple top, one piece neck and headstock,
> Made in Japan 2003 serial number, dimple in the headstock, 2 screw truss
> rod cover, feels very much like the real thing from Gibson in terms of
> weight, not sure of the type of finish to be honest except it's a very
> similar cherry sunburst to yours - looks and feels like nitro-cellulose
> but these days it could easily be something else. I'll lift the pickups
> over the weekend and see what, if anything it tells me. Not really a
> problem as it's a really nice guitar, but now I've set on the task of
> finding out what model it is, I won't rest until I know :-)
The fact you mention it's a solid maple top makes it sound like an LS150 or
above. See table at bottom of the page here:
http://www.tokairegistry.com:80/tokai-info/tokai-gibson-models.html
> I don't think the screw holes will be that big and it would be more a case
> of colouring any bare wood with a suitable tiny dab of the right color car
> paint inside the screw hole, letting it dry thoroughly and then filling
> the remainder with a tiny drop of Loctite's best so that it leaves a very
> slight (and I mean VERY slight dome when it's gone off fully), and then
> you could try flatting it down, but superglue does sometimes end up
> setting a bit harder than the surrounding finish and you can easily rub
> through, so personally I'd get it as close as possible and leave it alone
> otherwise it could end up being a mess. It's only a cosmetic thing and
> anyone a few feet away won't see the screw holes anyway if they are
> disguised a bit. Or you could take it to a pro and get the screw holes
> filled properly so you won't be able to tell. You can make things a lot
> worse by tryin to fill holes without taking extreme care and sufficient
> time. You could also change the pickup rings and the pick guard for black
> ones or custom finished ones. A halfway house might be to get a clear
> pickguard made :-)
Hmm, not sure about that ;-) Thanks for the hole-filling/finishing tips.
It's only really the one near the neck that'd be remotely noticable and I
think the Zebra SD's will likely draw the eyes away from it! :-)
Bigus
Dave Benj
"Bigus" <a_pe...@anyolddomain.fake> wrote in message
>
> "Dave Benj" <dave.be...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
> news:829a0681-cf5e-4377...@q14g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
>
> Thanks. They do the push pull pots cheaper than the other places I was
> looking, so bits on order :-)
They are quick too. I've used them several times lately.
Order on Monday, for example, receive on Wednesday.
If you grub about on their pickups page, there's a useful PDF booklet of
guitar and bass wiring diagrams for download...
nickm
There's a number of ways you can fill holes, and the superglue thing is
sometimes used to repair a chip or two. I don't profess it to be a 'pro'
repair, but it usually works well enough.
Yeah I saw that link yesterday, but I wasn't totally certain that it is a
LS150 or above. I wouldn't like to say until I have a bit more evidence.
I'll look in the p/u cavities for tell-tale markings to try and be a bit
more accurate tomorrow or over the weekend
thomas.m...@gmail.com
PAFs.
Gibson really figured out the problem when they realized that they
needed uneven numbers of loops to recreate the original pickups.
Short of buying PAFs, which would be silly for a Tokai, get the
Burstbuckers. They are extraodinary. They are the reason that Les
Paul Standards suddenly got so much better again.
nickm
<thomas.m...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:228ec0be-5e8c-4b9c...@h23g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
The quality of the Tokai I have is as good functionally and in appearance
and finish as the Gibson Les Paul Custom I have - and that is good - very
good, so I'm not so sure it would be that silly for someone who really
wanted a Gibson with a genuine original PAF Gibson sound and had their heart
set on it to buy the genuine Gibson PAF pickup. I wouldn't personally go
down that route, because I'm more than happy with the SD pickups I have put
in my Tokai. The oiginal Tokai pickups are pretty good anyway. depends on
the user, their perception, taste and ultimately being comfortable with what
their guitar sounds like.
It's all about personal taste at the end of the day and what amp and FX
chain you will be using will of course have a fairly dramatic effect on what
you hear, with possibly a lot of the guitar's original character being lost
in certain circumstances :-)
I hear you on the Burstbuckers though, and would agree that they do sound
very close to the PAF, and if I were replacing the original Tokai pickups
today, I would certainly seriously consider them for fitting - alongside the
Seymour Duncan range, Bare Knuckles and others of that ilk.
Chris Bolus
wrote:
>
>Cheapest I could find was: www.crazytrainmusic.co.uk. The pair for �119 incl
>delivery.
>
Interesting. Crazytrain is on my way home and they supplied my Gretsch,
but like many others they've shut the shop these days and only do
lessons from there.
--
Chris Bolus (change o to zero to reply by email)
A guitar is for life, not just for Christmas!
nickm
>>
>>> This page has some info on IDing a Love Rock:
>>>
>>> http://www.musicradar.com/forum/showthread.php?p=394786
>>>
>>>> Yes, the Zebra style pickups would look good.
>>
>> Thanks for the link - confirms my suspicion that there are probably some
>> ID marks inside the pickup cavities or somewhere under one of the covers.
>>
>> Mine has a one piece back, solid maple top, one piece neck and headstock,
>> Made in Japan 2003 serial number, dimple in the headstock, 2 screw truss
>> rod cover, feels very much like the real thing from Gibson in terms of
>> weight, not sure of the type of finish to be honest except it's a very
>> similar cherry sunburst to yours - looks and feels like nitro-cellulose
>> but these days it could easily be something else. I'll lift the pickups
>> over the weekend and see what, if anything it tells me. Not really a
>> problem as it's a really nice guitar, but now I've set on the task of
>> finding out what model it is, I won't rest until I know :-)
>
> The fact you mention it's a solid maple top makes it sound like an LS150
> or above. See table at bottom of the page here:
> http://www.tokairegistry.com:80/tokai-info/tokai-gibson-models.html
>
OK looking around the Net for images and having lifted the pickups for a
look underneath for markings, I think I've narrowed my Love Rock down to
being an LS80 or LS80F. So it is the same guitar as you have :-). The
pickups gave it away really as the higher end models tend to have no covers
on the pickups. The price I paid was very good at the time but is in the
right ball park for an LS80F purchased in 2005 - the guy I got it from
always used to cut me a good deal, and this was no exception, and probably
better than normal as his shop was going to be bulldozed in a few weeks
There are markings in lacquer covered pencil under the neck and bridge
pickups which are: '34' under the neck pickup, and; 'B11 - 3 CS' under the
bridge pickup. I haven't found a reference for these.
Chrome covered Tokai PAF 57 pickups (dug out the originals for a look)
Cherry Sunburst on two piece flamed maple top
Solid mahogany one piece back
Solid mahogany one piece neck
Rosewood fingerboard
18 degree headstock angle
Dimple on headstock
Green capacitors
2 screw truss rod cover
Made in Japan
Manufactured 2003 from first two digits of the serial number
I took the pickguard off briefly too to look at the screw hole near the
neck. It is quite a noticeable hole and so would probably be better being
plugged before colouring and applying a bit of clear lacquer
Bigus
> OK looking around the Net for images and having lifted the pickups for a
> look underneath for markings, I think I've narrowed my Love Rock down to
> being an LS80 or LS80F. So it is the same guitar as you have :-). The
> pickups gave it away really as the higher end models tend to have no
> covers on the pickups. The price I paid was very good at the time but is
> in the right ball park for an LS80F purchased in 2005 - the guy I got it
> from always used to cut me a good deal, and this was no exception, and
> probably better than normal as his shop was going to be bulldozed in a few
> weeks
>
> There are markings in lacquer covered pencil under the neck and bridge
> pickups which are: '34' under the neck pickup, and; 'B11 - 3 CS' under the
> bridge pickup. I haven't found a reference for these.
That's a bit cryptic. Goodness knows why Tokai didn't just stamp the model
number somewhere. I haven't got the new pickups yet but when I have
(hopefully Monday/Tuesday) I'll see what cryptic numbers I've got!
> Chrome covered Tokai PAF 57 pickups (dug out the originals for a look)
> Cherry Sunburst on two piece flamed maple top
> Solid mahogany one piece back
> Solid mahogany one piece neck
> Rosewood fingerboard
> 18 degree headstock angle
> Dimple on headstock
> Green capacitors
> 2 screw truss rod cover
> Made in Japan
Mine matches those specs except, my maple top is not flamed (unfortunately)
and the back is two piece mahogany. I would concur yours is probably the 80F
rather than 80 as F probably stands for flamed, based on the observation
that quilted maple topped models seem to have Q after the number. You got a
one piece back though - that only seems to be a feature of premium models in
the current range - you must have got lucky there :-)
> I took the pickguard off briefly too to look at the screw hole near the
> neck. It is quite a noticeable hole and so would probably be better being
> plugged before colouring and applying a bit of clear lacquer
Yes it does look like rather a big hole. I know someone who's really good at
woodwork, so I might entrust the task to him if he's up for it.
Bigus
nickm
"Bigus" <a_pe...@anyolddomain.fake> wrote in message
There's something in the Japanese price in Yen that denoting the model
number. Somewhere on one of the sites I looked at - think it was the one
you highlighted - there is evidence that some models started life as an
LS100 and then bceame an LS120 or something like that because the value of
the Yen changed. Also on the page I was looking at it says the LS80 has a
one piece back Mine was made in 2003 and yours was made in 2006, so there
might be a reason there why yours has a 2 piece back. As you say, who knows
why Tokai don't just stamp the model number on to the guitar headstock with
the serial number and be done with it. I think they used to put a sticky
label on in the 'old' days or sometimes it was stamped in the wood on the
fingerboard just behind the 22nd fret. Yes mine probably is the 80F - but
who really knows :-) You'd think there might be an online database that you
could check - at least for those guitars produced in the computer age. The
Tokai method of classifying models does seem to be unnecessarily complicated
though :-) Here's the page I got a lot of the info from - although who's to
say how accurate it is I don't know....
http://www.tokairegistry.com/tokai-info/tokai-gibson-models.html
Whether or not having a one piece back is down to getting lucky or not, I
think I was quite lucky with the price I paid anyway. The guy I bought it
and lots of other stuff from over the years between 1980 and 2005, knew me
pretty well, made enough out of me over the years without being greedy as I
was a regular, and he often did me some very good deals on new and
secondhand stuff - often without me having to ask what the 'real' price to
me would be. There is quite a markup on some of ths stuff - no quibbles
there though, as that's what being in business is about. I had a good deal
on the Tokai whatever, as the guy was closing down - so future overheads
didn't need to be covered like they normally would.
The markings inside the pickup cavities probably mean something like 34th in
a run stored in Bin 11 3rd row back and signed off by someone with the
initials CS. That probably does have meaning to someone somewhere, but
unless there is a database somewhere it's not a lot of help to me :-) I
think it's like the Times crossword where people just put random letters in
the boxes to appear intelligent to othes who are doubtless doing exactly the
same.
Bigus
>
> Whether or not having a one piece back is down to getting lucky or not, I
> think I was quite lucky with the price I paid anyway. The guy I bought it
> and lots of other stuff from over the years between 1980 and 2005, knew me
> pretty well, made enough out of me over the years without being greedy as
> I was a regular, and he often did me some very good deals on new and
> secondhand stuff - often without me having to ask what the 'real' price to
> me would be. There is quite a markup on some of ths stuff - no quibbles
> there though, as that's what being in business is about. I had a good
> deal on the Tokai whatever, as the guy was closing down - so future
> overheads didn't need to be covered like they normally would.
>
> The markings inside the pickup cavities probably mean something like 34th
> in a run stored in Bin 11 3rd row back and signed off by someone with the
> initials CS. That probably does have meaning to someone somewhere, but
> unless there is a database somewhere it's not a lot of help to me :-) I
> think it's like the Times crossword where people just put random letters
> in the boxes to appear intelligent to othes who are doubtless doing
> exactly the same.
I've had a look inside the pickup cavities but there are no markings at all.
The pickups are actually Gotoh - or at least one of them has Gotoh writen on
it, so not sure if they are actually PAF 57s - are PAF 57s made by Gotoh?
My wiring hasn't quite worked right so I've got to double check everything!
This happened last time I tried some fancy wiring in a guitar. I'm using the
Seymour Duncan Jimmy Page wiring
(http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=jp_style).
It works in normal humbucking mode and does sound sweet :-)
Bigus