marshall vs100 combo good or bad
djlewis
im buying it used from some guy.
before i hand over the dosh what should i check, any tests i should run
through if so please tell me.
any help would be appreciated.
James Shackley
news:cec0p0$3n5$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
and failure due to dirt and poor solder joints.
Also check the amp doesn't make a 'popping' sound at higher volume - I
bought one and it did it, very annoying and certainly faulty...a friends did
the same too!
Cheers,
James
Stewart Ward
valve in the VS100 does not create the distortion as inferred. However it
*does* in the AVTs... Marshall must have taken notice of all the flack - at
last.
All Marshall ValveStates have a tendency to sound 'brash', so if you want
the warmer classic old school sounds, these will not be for you. The clean
tones are very limited and don't stay very clean with volume.
I would say it's better than the tranny Fender amps, which sound reasonable
clean, but their distortion is... well, chronic. Which is the opposite of
the VS100. Buy one of each and get an ABY switcher box!
If it's a good price, £150ish, then it's worth it. But if you're paying top
money I think you should take a look around, there are some amps a lot
better out there. Don't be dazzled by the 'M' badge though.
--
Stewart Ward
http://www.Award-Session.com
in...@Award-Session.com
Hear MultiTone-Pro in action -
http://www.award-session.com/multitone-pro.html
New SoloBooster pedal - http://www.award-session.com/solobooster.html
"djlewis" <da...@fender62.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cec0p0$3n5$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
Ian Watts
it was an easy fix so it wasn't problem. I use the speaker extention cab as
it allows for a better overall tone and I love the distorted channels. The
clean channel does get a bit gravelly with volume, but knock the volume down
a bit on your guitar and its fine. On the whole I'd recommend one, they're
pretty solid and people always compliment the sound at gigs. Give it a good
going over though, test all the channels, both reverb pots, check all the
pots for crackling, check the effects loop, whether you're gonna use it or
not. If the person selling it has nothing to hide they won't mind you giving
it a thorough test.
"Stewart Ward" <stewar...@award-session.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote in
message news:cecud1$igf$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
djlewis
door and my neighbors threatening my life, can i do it with headphones ? eh
doubtful but i had to ask
"djlewis" <da...@fender62.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cec0p0$3n5$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
Gary Wright
"Stewart Ward" <stewar...@award-session.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote in
message news:cecud1$igf$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
the
> valve in the VS100 does not create the distortion as inferred. However it
> *does* in the AVTs... Marshall must have taken notice of all the flack -
at
> last.
>
> All Marshall ValveStates have a tendency to sound 'brash', so if you want
> the warmer classic old school sounds, these will not be for you. The
clean
> tones are very limited and don't stay very clean with volume.
>
> I would say it's better than the tranny Fender amps, which sound
reasonable
> clean, but their distortion is... well, chronic. Which is the opposite of
> the VS100. Buy one of each and get an ABY switcher box!
>
> If it's a good price, £150ish, then it's worth it. But if you're paying
top
> money I think you should take a look around, there are some amps a lot
> better out there. Don't be dazzled by the 'M' badge though.
I had one of the 2x40 watt valvestates for a couple of years. I agree
completely with the above statements. I found it really harsh. I bought
mine in 1996 and I think at the time Marshall were still wanting to do the
'grunge' sound. I seem to recall Digitech effects units at the time had a
'grunge' amp on them. With product placement, the Seatle sound lasted
rather longer than the popularity of the music. Yes, I know Nirvana are
still popular today, but you know what I mean.
Unfortunately, what seemed to be perceived as the grunge sound by said
companies was something that (to my ears) sounded like a bag of spanners.
YMMV, as one mans bag of spanners is another mans ultimate guitar tone.
A friend on mine has one of the 50w AVT Marshalls and loves it. But he
would love anything bearing the Marshall name. I played through it briefly,
and I have to say that it was a vast improvement on my old one, but still
didn't make me want to rush out and buy one. The cleans out of it were
actually rather good, which is certainly not something I could have accused
my VS of.
Gary
J A Sims
Just an opinion here, I used to have the old valvestate vs100 combo,
and recently had the chance to pick up a slightly used AVT50 combo
(the more recent range) and with some careful dialing in of the
simple eq settings have achieved far more than the old vs100
could do, I think its quite a good amp. Yes on the GAIN channel
you have to tread carefully to avoid wasp in the old jam jar
malaise, but overall I like it, especially the clean channel.
Julian Le Second
ps I hear that the old vs100 improved loads with a decent ext
cabinet plugged in.
--
Junior Mctavish Allstars
~~~
Stewart Ward
news:cedgfo$vi0$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> I had one of the 2x40 watt valvestates for a couple of years. I agree
> completely with the above statements. I found it really harsh. I bought
> mine in 1996 and I think at the time Marshall were still wanting to do
the
> 'grunge' sound. I seem to recall Digitech effects units at the time had a
> 'grunge' amp on them. With product placement, the Seatle sound lasted
> rather longer than the popularity of the music. Yes, I know Nirvana are
> still popular today, but you know what I mean.
>
> Unfortunately, what seemed to be perceived as the grunge sound by said
> companies was something that (to my ears) sounded like a bag of spanners.
> YMMV, as one mans bag of spanners is another mans ultimate guitar tone.
Agreed... but I'm old, what do I know?
>
> A friend on mine has one of the 50w AVT Marshalls and loves it. But he
> would love anything bearing the Marshall name. I played through it
briefly,
> and I have to say that it was a vast improvement on my old one, but still
> didn't make me want to rush out and buy one. The cleans out of it were
> actually rather good, which is certainly not something I could have
accused
> my VS of.
Well, we have one in the workshop for repair and its not a cuddly toned
thing at all. I'm from a different generation, I know, but it's the kind of
sound (to me) that you grow out of very quickly once you've heard a few
classic amps more regularly. A friend of mine uses a Slash head and 4x12"
cab with his LP Standard... now that IS a nice sound! Non of that 'bee in a
buiscuit tin' stuff there at all. But if Marshall *really* wanted, they
*could* get that sound from the VS/AVTs... so why don't they?
From a technicians point of view, they are built in a way that makes them
seem 'tempoarilly' reliable - and the term 'just out of warranty' comes to
mind somehow. But hey, it's a throw away instant gratification society, I'm
clearly past my sell by date! ;-)
djlewis
to overdrive all the time
other than that nice ampnews:ced6bk$pp2$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
Daniel C
toned
> thing at all. I'm from a different generation, I know, but it's the
kind of
> sound (to me) that you grow out of very quickly once you've heard a
few
> classic amps more regularly. A friend of mine uses a Slash head and
4x12"
> cab with his LP Standard... now that IS a nice sound! Non of that
'bee in a
> buiscuit tin' stuff there at all. But if Marshall *really* wanted,
they
> *could* get that sound from the VS/AVTs... so why don't they?
I think they're catering to idiots like me. Whenever i go to a rehearsal
space and plug into a JCM 800/900/2000 I am SO disapointed with the
(clean) sounds I get.
If I go to a rehearsal space adn plug into a old VS or even a AVT I can
get sounds I like out of them.
The only thing I've EVER got out of a valve-powered marshall is
earsplitting treble, solid bass and zero mids. I can't get a good sound
out of a valve marshall half stack for the life of me. had mildly
better results with combos...
am I alone in this predicament?
Daniel.
Stewart Ward
news:6qAPc.251$jO6.2...@news-text.cableinet.net...
> I think they're catering to idiots like me. Whenever i go to a rehearsal
> space and plug into a JCM 800/900/2000 I am SO disapointed with the
> (clean) sounds I get.
Well, to be honest, if you want clean sounds why plug into a Marshall? Many
American players, who incidently as a nation spend four times the amount we
do on gear, use two guitar amps and an ABY box for just this purpose. Yeah
I know it aint convenient an' all that, but it works.
>
> If I go to a rehearsal space adn plug into a old VS or even a AVT I can
> get sounds I like out of them.
>
> The only thing I've EVER got out of a valve-powered marshall is
> earsplitting treble, solid bass and zero mids. I can't get a good sound
> out of a valve marshall half stack for the life of me. had mildly
> better results with combos...
There are a few tricks to getting a good sound out of these and it requires
a bit of work depending on you, your guitar and what you're playing music
wise. But yes, you will mostly have the treble turned right off I guess and
maybe the bass and mid full on... my chum does with his SLX and it sounds
truly great - for him and his LP STD. Maybe not for anyone else. But I
have to say, for us old farts, when at jams we give the VS and AVTs a wide
berth. So, it's one mans heaven is anothers poo?
What other makes have you tried?
Daniel C
'cos that's all that's there! It seems to be the standard thing in
rehearsal spaces round here (glasgow). You get a choice of a marshall
half stack, or... a marshall half stack. And having said Marshalls
aren't first choice for clean tone, every time I've seen John Fruscante
(sp?) play he gets some great clean sounds from them. I'll be humbled in
the fact that it's probably all in the fingers.
> Many
> American players, who incidently as a nation spend four times the
amount we
> do on gear, use two guitar amps and an ABY box for just this purpose.
Yeah
> I know it aint convenient an' all that, but it works.
I wouldn't say it was terribly unconventional! I'd be doing this if I
had the money.
> There are a few tricks to getting a good sound out of these and it
requires
> a bit of work depending on you, your guitar and what you're playing
music
> wise. But yes, you will mostly have the treble turned right off I
guess and
> maybe the bass and mid full on...
Aye! That's the one.
>my chum does with his SLX and it sounds
> truly great - for him and his LP STD. Maybe not for anyone else.
Works a tad better; but still usually sounds like a bag of bolts. I play
a strat, and had the chance to mess about with a friends LP & marshall
combo, and did get better sounds. *shrug* what can you do?
> But I
> have to say, for us old farts, when at jams we give the VS and AVTs a
wide
> berth. So, it's one mans heaven is anothers poo?
Couldn't agree more. One man's coffee, another mans tea.
> What other makes have you tried?
I get on VERY well with valve fenders, and the higher-up-the range solid
state stuff (although never used a cyber-whatsit). Roland Jazz was
alright - feel kinda bad saying that 'cos they are meant to be classics
or something. Played with an old Musicman combo once which was a solid
state pre amp and valve power amp and my god that thing was sweet! An
RP112 I think it was called. One of the nicest amps I ever got to play
through was a 3 channel trace elliot head. Can't remember what model it
was. Messed about with a few of the Laney TubeFusion amps, and get on
really well with them. Also I do like the Carlsbro GLX amps. I have one
myself and I think it sounds sweet (one man's coffee). However it blew
up on me at a gig. two caps, the power amp IC and two power amp fuses
blew with it running at half-tilt. Was very dissapointed when I took it
apart to repair it - filmsy pcb, power amp IC not heatsinked properly...
I like the sound but its NOT well put together at all. Never had the
chance to try a session! Sorry :(
Daniel C.
Tim
I've had a couple of Valvestates and whilst I think the sound could be
made acceptable, the build quality was very poor and yes, the pots go
and my mate's 2 x 65 watt stereo chorus jobbie only managed both amps
working simultaneously for 6 months before intermittent cut out on the
right hand side.
Furthermore, the amp started looking shagged way ahead of its time.
All in all, Valvestate equates to a bit 'bedroom' to me. Perhaps I
expect too much.
Cheers
Tim
Arty
time on it , you can get good tones . Humbuckers sound much better , reverb
is iffy . Power was plentyfull , clean sounds where ok .I ran mine for a
short while through a 4x12 , and the difference was immense.A friend
recently bought a new AVT 100 on my reccomendation , "i heard one in a shop
", and to my shock and horror when he gigged it live in his band , the tones
were very thin indeed, and he really struggles to get over his drummer .The
vs has more output to my ears .
"djlewis" <da...@fender62.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cec0p0$3n5$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
djlewis
versatile i think with inputs at back
i like the reverb myself.
"Arty" <a...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:ADG1d.431$s65...@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
Stewart Ward
some
> time on it , you can get good tones . Humbuckers sound much better ,
reverb
> is iffy . Power was plentyfull , clean sounds where ok .I ran mine for a
> short while through a 4x12 , and the difference was immense.A friend
> recently bought a new AVT 100 on my reccomendation , "i heard one in a
shop
> ", and to my shock and horror when he gigged it live in his band , the
tones
> were very thin indeed, and he really struggles to get over his drummer
.The
> vs has more output to my ears .
As I have said here many times, the AVT50, 100 and 150 all use a 15 pin DMos
'chip' output amplifier. They are simply not man enough for such a heavy
duty application like a guitar amp - IMO. Laney also use the same chips in
their amps.
Part of the problem is that the percieved cost of a 'regular gigging' amp is
now too low to expect to get anything very serious. Please learn to pay
more and save harder, as this is the only way to obtain an amp with a
respectable performance. Many budget guitars are now just 'hitech' spray
jobs over crap materials mostly. Made to *look* the part! It's going that
way with amps too.
Sorry for the frankness, but this AVT question comes up just tooooooo often.
It's time to look around and make other brands the new 'cool'.
--
Stewart Ward
http://www.Award-Session.com
in...@Award-Session.com
Tel. 01256 477 222 - Int. Tel. +44 1256 477 222
Hear MultiTone-Pro in action -
http://www.award-session.com/multitone-pro.html
New SoloBooster pedal - http://www.award-session.com/solobooster.html
Coming soon - Our quality ABY1 signal switcher allows you to switch a guitar
between two amps, or to both at once. Or, switch between two guitars into
one amp.
J A Sims
If Stewart's point is that these single chips blow then of course this is
a very valid point, but..... for the local player in a local band and
at the price and the manufacturers backup I for one can't really knock
the AVT50, especially the clean channel with the gain cranked up, to
my ears a huge improvement over the old vs100 combo which I used to
have. In a fair world of course there would be a Dumble awaiting us
all at ASDA on the tv/stereo shelf, but.......
So far I have cranked up and abused the AVT50 which I did get slightly
used at a knockdown price (the original owner going back to the Orient)
and just the other night at a charity jam session a local enthusiast
whose opinion is respected said that my Jap Tele sounded great through
the AVT50, and that was straight in with no effects.
All of this of course is just IMHO.
Cheers.
J Le Second
Stewart Ward
news:I42yG6.23...@bath.ac.uk...
>
> If Stewart's point is that these single chips blow then of course this is
> a very valid point,
It's not so much that they blow (I did not say that), they are said not to
be very loud or they go quiet after a while of solid playing. Hence the
poster's comments... "I heard one in a shop and to my shock and horror when
he gigged it live in his band, the tones were very thin indeed, and he
really struggles to get over his drummer".
> but..... for the local player in a local band and
> at the price and the manufacturers backup I for one can't really knock
> the AVT50, especially the clean channel with the gain cranked up, to
> my ears a huge improvement over the old vs100 combo which I used to
> have. In a fair world of course there would be a Dumble awaiting us
> all at ASDA on the tv/stereo shelf, but...
Errrr, to quote Dumble as an alternative to Marshall which is suitable to
fit the 'regular gigging' amp criteria might be regarded as a little
extreme? But, to be fair to Marshall, the AVT50 is not the one which gives
the most problems, if any, as far as I know. My point was that it used the
same chip, albeit, less strenuously at 50 watts. Marshall, in years past,
have made some extremely good 'regular gigging' amps... from all accounts
the may not now compared to amps for 'regular gigging' standards in years
past.
The most complaints have been regarding the AVT150. Bare in mind, the
comments are not from me, but from owners/users. So this is independant
feedback. I am just rounding up the info and combining it with what I have
seen. As a newspaper reporter would.
> So far I have cranked up and abused the AVT50 which I did get slightly
> used at a knockdown price (the original owner going back to the Orient)
> and just the other night at a charity jam session a local enthusiast
> whose opinion is respected said that my Jap Tele sounded great through
> the AVT50, and that was straight in with no effects.
Great, the amp seems to suit your taste and needs. That's all that matters
in this case. However, I'm sure that most would be pleased to learn of any
possible shortcomings about any product, *before* they bought it.
Newsgroups partly exist to serve this purpose. Certainly, if any of my
products suffered in a similar way, I would expect it to be all over this
NG, and others, within days. That's why I'm more carefull. Maybe Marshall
should be too, given the obvious power of the Internet?
Ian Watts
suits what I do and I would recommend one, but like all things, give it a
good going over before you buy. The ext cab makes it even better.
I've never used an AVT, so I can't comment.
"T N Nurse" <tnnurse...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tnnurseNOUCE99-DB9...@singer.cent.gla.ac.uk...
> In article <ci918p$uqp$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> I've heard this a number of times about Marshalls and these amps. Has
> anyone actually measured the wattage output of these things *properly*
> - I mean true RMS continuous run for 30 seconds, not some weird burst
> mode that takes a measurement before the filter caps run out of juice
> and the power supply collapses.
jimedvic
> Sorry for the frankness, but this AVT question comes up just tooooooo
> often.
> It's time to look around and make other brands the new 'cool'.
>
Other brands such as? I've been gigging a Marshall MG50fx for a few months
now and its been tremendous. I have other amps (Peavey, Carlsbro, Crate,
Vox) and use the Marshall in preference. More money doesnt always mean a
better sound.
Mike H
Chris Bolus
<stewar...@award-session.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>As I have said here many times, the AVT50, 100 and 150 all use a 15 pin DMos
>'chip' output amplifier. They are simply not man enough for such a heavy
>duty application like a guitar amp - IMO. Laney also use the same chips in
>their amps.
>
>Part of the problem is that the percieved cost of a 'regular gigging' amp is
>now too low to expect to get anything very serious. Please learn to pay
>more and save harder, as this is the only way to obtain an amp with a
>respectable performance. Many budget guitars are now just 'hitech' spray
>jobs over crap materials mostly. Made to *look* the part! It's going that
>way with amps too.
>
>Sorry for the frankness, but this AVT question comes up just tooooooo often.
>It's time to look around and make other brands the new 'cool'.
I found this out when I fixed a dry joint on a Valvestate 40 for one of
my daughter's bandmates this week. Sounds fine at the low volumes used
in the practice room, but the build quality is really poor IMO - no
wonder the socket went dry-joint; the only thing holding that end of the
pcb in place is the pcb-mounted socket and a couple of the pots being
fixed to the chassis.
And worst of all a puny transformer - much tinier than any of the ones
in any of my amps.
I suppose it's all part of the way of modern electronics, where a lot of
stuff is "disposable" - so cheap it costs less to replace than to
repair.
--
Regards, Chris (remove the arachnid to reply by e-mail)
Connection problems? Help is at hand on my tech page at
www.b0lus.com
****** Please email in plain text ******
djlewis
then
"Chris Bolus" <ch...@bolus.com> wrote in message
news:opogk0p9of4c8kk55...@4ax.com...
Stewart Ward
news:tnnurseNOUCE99-DB9...@singer.cent.gla.ac.uk...
> anyone actually measured the wattage output of these things *properly*
> - I mean true RMS continuous run for 30 seconds, not some weird burst
> mode that takes a measurement before the filter caps run out of juice
> and the power supply collapses.
I will. I have an AVT50 in the workshop at the moment. But I am aware that
some get a little upset or irritated, it seems, when I talk this way about
their favourite product in such a reveiling manner. However, I must stress
that I'm only being honest and I would like to see musicians getting a
better deal.
I am happy to publish what I find here, but only on the understanding that
no one get's grumpy with me because they perceive that Mr. Session is
slagging off Mr. Marshall - that is most certainly not what I want to do.
I'd like to see Marshall get back to their original standards. Is that
fair?
Stewart Ward
> does that mean a vs100 is basically the same as an avt50. quality build
wise
> then
No, the build concept is better and the VS100 uses a proper discreat power
stage... not a chip. The loudness of the VS100 will surpass the AVT50. But
it is a sonically different amp.
Soundwise, I'm not happy to make recommendations as I am not a big fan of
the Marshall sound. Maybe because I am not a big rock fan either (but I was
once).
djlewis
knobs black wido speaker etc
i bought the vs100 used for a ton in mint cond i couldnt resist the price.message news:cia06e$vl9$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
Stewart Ward
> "T N Nurse" <tnnurse...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:tnnurseNOUCE99-DB9...@singer.cent.gla.ac.uk...
> > I've heard this a number of times about Marshalls and these amps. Has
> > anyone actually measured the wattage output of these things *properly*
> > - I mean true RMS continuous run for 30 seconds, not some weird burst
> > mode that takes a measurement before the filter caps run out of juice
> > and the power supply collapses.
>
> I will. I have an AVT50 in the workshop at the moment. But I am aware
that
> some get a little upset or irritated, it seems, when I talk this way about
> their favourite product in such a reveiling manner. However, I must
stress
> that I'm only being honest and I would like to see musicians getting a
> better deal.
>
> I am happy to publish what I find here, but only on the understanding that
> no one get's grumpy with me because they perceive that Mr. Session is
> slagging off Mr. Marshall - that is most certainly not what I want to do.
> I'd like to see Marshall get back to their original standards. Is that
> fair?
OK, Here's the power measurements into a pure resistive 8 and 4 ohm load.
8 ohms - 39W rms and 4 ohms 55W rms.
Pretty good, as Marshall have in the past have been very opimistic about
their power ratings. Foe example, the old 8040 was quoted as 40W, but only
achieved 28W rms into the same 4 ohms resitive load. So, full marks for
power output, but...
The 4 ohm G12 50AVT Celestion made speaker only has a small magnet. Approx'
100mm diameter x 15mm thick. A typical 'classic' speaker is around 150 x
23mm. So, not very inspiring and this is where the amplifier is seriously
let down when being used in live with drummer encounters. Not easy to
upgarde either, as it is a 4 ohm speaker which is not a common impedance for
upgrades!
Shame, I always make my amps with 8 or 16 ohm speakers, as they are far
easier to obtain should it fail at any time. But in this case, they could
not get 50 watts out of the chip into an 8 ohms load, so hence their choice
of impedance. This is a strong case in favour of using a discreat output
stage rather than a cheap 'home cinema' output chip.
So there you have the truth, as I see it, and trying to be as fair as I can.
Stewart Ward
--
Stewart Ward
http://www.Award-Session.com
in...@Award-Session.com
Tel. 01256 477 222 - Int. Tel. +44 1256 477 222
Hear MultiTone-Pro in action -
http://www.award-session.com/multitone-pro.html
New SoloBooster pedal - http://www.award-session.com/solobooster.html
Coming soon - Our quality ABY1 signal switcher allows you to switch a guitar
between two amps, or to both at once. Or, switch between two guitars into
one amp.
"T N Nurse" <tnnurse...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tnnurseNOUCE99-2C2...@singer.cent.gla.ac.uk...
> In article <ci9vqc$lro$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> "Stewart Ward" <stewar...@award-session.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > "T N Nurse" <tnnurse...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:tnnurseNOUCE99-DB9...@singer.cent.gla.ac.uk...
> > > I've heard this a number of times about Marshalls and these amps. Has
> > > anyone actually measured the wattage output of these things *properly*
> > > - I mean true RMS continuous run for 30 seconds, not some weird burst
> > > mode that takes a measurement before the filter caps run out of juice
> > > and the power supply collapses.
> >
> > I will. I have an AVT50 in the workshop at the moment. But I am aware
that
> > some get a little upset or irritated, it seems, when I talk this way
about
> > their favourite product in such a reveiling manner. However, I must
stress
> > that I'm only being honest and I would like to see musicians getting a
> > better deal.
> >
> > I am happy to publish what I find here, but only on the understanding
that
> > no one get's grumpy with me because they perceive that Mr. Session is
> > slagging off Mr. Marshall - that is most certainly not what I want to
do.
> > I'd like to see Marshall get back to their original standards. Is that
> > fair?
>
> If these things are DMOS devices, run them for 30 minutes to get
> good and hot first, before making the measurement. It would be
> interesting to also repeat with a valve amp of the same rating.
> Just as a benchmark, I did a measurement of a Behringer GM110
> Vintager about 6 months back and posted here. I got 27 watts
> continuous RMS across the speaker load after a 30 minute warm
> up. My Laney LC30 clocked in at 32 watts under similar conditions.
> There was a substantial difference in volume between the two,
> although there shouldn't have been. I then plugged the Behringer
> into the Laney speaker and ab and the Laney into the Behringer cab.
> The Behringer was now as loud 'fat' sounding as the Laney had
> been, and the Laney as thin and wimpey sounding as the Behringer
> had been.
>
> Perhaps the real measure would be to put amps in an anachoic chamber
> and measure the dB@10meters on a decibel meter. Then there would be
> no argument over how loud an amp sounds.
Stewart Ward
>
> If these things are DMOS devices, run them for 30 minutes to get
> good and hot first, before making the measurement.
Sods law... the customer arrived to collect it just a minute after I put it
up on the bench to test it, so the power results are sadly with the amp
cold! He could not wait 30 minutes, naturally.
> It would be
> interesting to also repeat with a valve amp of the same rating.
> Just as a benchmark, I did a measurement of a Behringer GM110
> Vintager about 6 months back and posted here. I got 27 watts
> continuous RMS across the speaker load after a 30 minute warm
> up. My Laney LC30 clocked in at 32 watts under similar conditions.
> There was a substantial difference in volume between the two,
> although there shouldn't have been. I then plugged the Behringer
> into the Laney speaker and ab and the Laney into the Behringer cab.
> The Behringer was now as loud 'fat' sounding as the Laney had
> been, and the Laney as thin and wimpey sounding as the Behringer
> had been.
Sure, poor speaker efficiency again! OK you guys here's a lesson, check the
magnet size on the speakers before buying any amps! The speaker make is
*no* indication of loudness or efficiency. Big magnets = loud amps - unless
you just want it for home use of course, then it's not a real problem. But
the tone could still be improved though.
>
> Perhaps the real measure would be to put amps in an anachoic chamber
> and measure the dB@10meters on a decibel meter. Then there would be
> no argument over how loud an amp sounds.
Celestion would be a good place to do it, but I don't think they'll want to
help rock any boats!
icarusi
> I've heard this a number of times about Marshalls and these amps. Has
> anyone actually measured the wattage output of these things *properly*
> - I mean true RMS continuous run for 30 seconds, not some weird burst
> mode that takes a measurement before the filter caps run out of juice
> and the power supply collapses.
I don't think there are any independent 'measurers' of amp output powers, at
least none who currently publish the data. There are also speaker
efficiencies and voicings to contend with in combo amps so the power ratings
and perceived loudnesses would be better measured as actual audio output.
Icarusi
--
remove the 00 to reply
icarusi
> As I have said here many times, the AVT50, 100 and 150 all use a 15 pin
DMos
> 'chip' output amplifier. They are simply not man enough for such a heavy
> duty application like a guitar amp - IMO. Laney also use the same chips
in
> their amps.
They're too attractive a proposition to pass up on budget amps though.
Small, relatively cheap, and with much of the protection, limiting and soft
start circuitry included. If the designers of both the chips and the amps
they're used in get it right they should do the job, and there's no reason
why a firm with Marshall's volumes of production shouldn't be able to get
the right chips in the right amp designs. OTOH if they are deliberately
selling products knowingly that they won't deliver the stated power over a
reasonable 'gigging' period, then that should be made as public as the
built-in obsolescence excuse for shoddy goods sold years ago. Unfortunately
that thoroughness would only be likely for such as Which magazine, unless
one of the major amp makers broke ranks and published such eveidence as
knocking copy to a competitor.
BTW what would constitute reasonable gigging duty, if we were considering an
amp whose output may fall over time dependent on how hard it's being used?
Arty
lark , but ive been playing guitar for years , and have used quality guitars
, but i cannot fault my Korean i think Vintage sg copy , its superb.If i
were looking for a good valve amp now i would be snapping up the old Selmers
and sound city ampson Ebay which we all sneered at in the early seveties ,
i would have 2 , one for lead the other for rythemmessage news:ci9cm8$bi2$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
Stewart Ward
> it may be going the same way with guitars this spray over dodgy materials
> lark , but ive been playing guitar for years , and have used quality
guitars
> , but i cannot fault my Korean i think Vintage sg copy , its superb.
Of course some are OK, but a lot aren't (solid coloured Strat copies
mainly). You didn't know that when you bought it though, did you? Bit of a
lottery, if you don't know what to look for.
> If i were looking for a good valve amp now i would be snapping up the old
Selmers
> and sound city ampson Ebay which we all sneered at in the early seveties
,
> i would have 2 , one for lead the other for rythem
Damned if I would! I had a Selmer T&B50 in for service last year and the
mains transformer fried whilst it was on the bench. There's no chance of
getting a replacement! This was a common occurance in the 'good old days',
and I can't remember how many mains TXs I've changed on these little
bast**ds. So be warned!
The Selmer T&B50 is a Brit' copy (with EL34s) of the Fender Bassman (45W)
head. Best to buy a Bassman really... you can still get the transformers.
Sound City were quite unreliable!! Some had the stupid idea of an Effects
Loop which was placed between the input socket and the first valve! Might
as well just connect the effects between the guitar and input socket.
Do I hear something that includes 'rose coloured glasses' here somewhere?
Those old amps certainly don't have my affections. But then, I see this
stuff from a technicians point of view which is bound to be very different
to your perceptions.
Arty
a Selmer t / b 50 for a while , when i was a kid and we used to have it on
full whack , boy it sounded good at the time , i dont know what happend to
it , probably blew up ! , also i used a Sound city in a semi pro group , it
had coloured knobs on it , 120 watt i think , and that was loud , you had to
use a Tone bender with it tho , these babies just would not clip ! , but
probably one of the best amps i used was a 60 WATT Dan armstrong , it had
sliders, looked like a big graphic equaliser , now that was cool , but i
guess totally unreliable ........message news:cigqls$lkt$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
icarusi
> > There are also speaker
> > efficiencies and voicings to contend with in combo amps so the power
ratings
> > and perceived loudnesses would be better measured as actual audio
output.
>
> That's true, that's why I suggested measurement in an anachoic chamber
> with a dB meter. Of course that won't tell you if it sounds good or
> not, just if it's loud enough to cut the mustard in a live band
> situation.
That may push up the cost, depending on who and where the testing is done.
If it was a mag doing the testing, a large room should be sufficient, if the
selected mike position isn't too far from the speaker.