Midi to serial port?
Jonathan J Quick
serial port rather than a soundcard's midi connector?
Jonathan
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James Screaton
"Jonathan J Quick" <ne...@foxtrot.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9n5mie$55us6$2...@ID-76383.news.dfncis.de...
> Anyone know of any software that lets you use midi in/out with a standard
PC
> serial port rather than a soundcard's midi connector?
uses optical isolated connections, which isn't part of the standard serial
port.
midiman still have them on their lists (www.midiman.com) and they are fairly
easy to get hold of. I think the current range of usb products are generally
cheaper, however - assuming that you have usb capabilities.
Cheers
James
Jonathan J Quick
news:9n7ain$3p0$1...@hermes.shef.ac.uk...
>
> you can buy them, but it needs electronics as well as software, because
MIDI
> uses optical isolated connections, which isn't part of the standard serial
> port
fairly
> easy to get hold of. I think the current range of usb products are
generally
> cheaper, however - assuming that you have usb capabilities.
Thanks for the pointer... what's an optical isolated connection btw? I
thought midi was just RS-232 through a round plug...
James Screaton
"Jonathan J Quick" <ne...@foxtrot.co.uk>
>
> Thanks for the pointer... what's an optical isolated connection btw? I
> thought midi was just RS-232 through a round plug...
>
midi is serial data, as is RS232, but instead of relying on voltages, it
uses a current loop, and is optically isolated at each end. It's not
particularly complicated to convert from one to the other, but it's
certainly easier to buy a ready made product, unless you are particularly
handy with a soldering iron.
Incidently, the midi connections that plug into a sound blasters joystick
port also need to be optically isolated - which is why you can't just plug a
din lead into the 15way port.
Cheers
James
Rick Booth
> Incidently, the midi connections that plug into a sound blasters joystick
> port also need to be optically isolated - which is why you can't just plug a
> din lead into the 15way port.
Indeed. As R A Penfold mentions in his rather splendidly nerdy midi
books, not doing this can and not infrequently does let out the magic
smoke.
(Actually, electronics omit smoke when they're choosing a new electronic
pope. The trouble is, they invariably choose the wrong one and get
condemned to non-functionality for the crime of heresy.)
- rfb
--
ri...@rfbooth.com http://www.rfbooth.com/ My opinions are.
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean, if Pacman affected us as
kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching pills and
listening to repetitive music...
James Screaton
"Rick Booth" <richar...@umist.ac.uk> wrote in
>
> (Actually, electronics omit smoke when they're choosing a new electronic
> pope. The trouble is, they invariably choose the wrong one and get
> condemned to non-functionality for the crime of heresy.)
Valve Popes were always more reliable ...
Cheers
James
Steve Dix
But Transistor-based Popes consumed less and were more discrete.
IGMC
=====================================================
http://www.mp3.com/simpletons
http://www.snorty.net/
http://www.stevedix.de/
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/2706
Rev T. N. Nurse
<ne...@foxtrot.co.uk> wrote:
> Anyone know of any software that lets you use midi in/out with a standard PC
> serial port rather than a soundcard's midi connector?
There's actually stuff from Steinberger that lets you use the parallel
printer port instead of the soundcard. I've used it on a laptop and it works
well. Costs around £60p including the Printer-MIDI adaptor. The software
is a free download on Steinberger's web site.
It's called Steinberger PC MIDI 3. vers 2.01
--
Note new signature
James Screaton
"Steve Dix" <st...@stevedix.de> wrote
> >
> >Valve Popes were always more reliable ...
> >
>
> But Transistor-based Popes consumed less and were more discrete.
>
but the sound of a Valve Pope at high volume is far better - warmer, more
dynamic ...
I'll get my cassock
Cheers
James
Jonathan J Quick
message news:tnnurse-ya0235800...@130.209.34.15...
>
> There's actually stuff from Steinberger that lets you use the parallel
> printer port instead of the soundcard. I've used it on a laptop and it
works
> well. Costs around £60p including the Printer-MIDI adaptor. The software
> is a free download on Steinberger's web site.
> It's called Steinberger PC MIDI 3. vers 2.01
Thanks for the pointer - couldn't see anywhere to buy the adaptor though, is
it on the site?
Steve Dix
Sound quality of early transistor popes was poor due to the primitive
geraniums used in manufacture. Modern Popes use far more effective
silicone.
That said, current trends seem to favour valve popes manufactured in
former Eastern-Bloc countries. Despite reliability worries, the
present one has outlasted his predecessor by a long margin.
;->
James Screaton
is
> it on the site?
again, midiman do a parallel port midi interface too - places like digital
village (http://www.digitalvillage.co.uk/) do them for £50.
Just out of interest, isn't there one on your soundcard, or are you already
using that ?
Cheers
James
James Screaton
"Steve Dix" <st...@stevedix.de> wrote
> Sound quality of early transistor popes was poor due to the primitive
> geraniums used in manufacture. Modern Popes use far more effective
> silicone.
>
I hear that the Vatican is releasing a range of digitally modelled Popes,
you can even change the bullet proof parameters of the Popemobile.
A Pro version is to follow with higher spec cardinals and digital outputs.
Cheers
James
Rev T. N. Nurse
<ne...@foxtrot.co.uk> wrote:
> "Rev T. N. Nurse" <tnn...@DELETETOREMOVESPAMTRAP.crosswinds.net> wrote in
> message news:tnnurse-ya0235800...@130.209.34.15...
> >
> > There's actually stuff from Steinberger that lets you use the parallel
> > printer port instead of the soundcard. I've used it on a laptop and it
> works
> > well. Costs around £60p including the Printer-MIDI adaptor. The software
> > is a free download on Steinberger's web site.
> > It's called Steinberger PC MIDI 3. vers 2.01
>
> Thanks for the pointer - couldn't see anywhere to buy the adaptor though, is
> it on the site?
I bought the adaptor and software from a local music store. now owned
by Acadamy of Sound. It shouldn't be too hard to get hold of. Try a keyboard
specialist, they seem to be up on kit like this.
It's just a small plastic box, slightly larger than a cigarette pack and
comes with a short parallel printer port cable. It has one MIDI in and
3 MIDI out, is dark brown and just says "Steinberger' on the top. There's
nothing else to identify it.
--
Note new signature
Jonathan J Quick
>
> again, midiman do a parallel port midi interface too - places like digital
> village (http://www.digitalvillage.co.uk/) do them for £50.
>
> Just out of interest, isn't there one on your soundcard, or are you
already
> using that ?
It's a laptop with no midi port on the built-in soundcard. I generally don't
use midi, but I want to dump my VG-88 settings and see if I can find or
write some software to edit them on the PC...
Steve Dix
<j.scr...@sheffield.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>I hear that the Vatican is releasing a range of digitally modelled Popes,
>you can even change the bullet proof parameters of the Popemobile.
>A Pro version is to follow with higher spec cardinals and digital outputs.
>
I've also heard that they plan a special edition Retro-pope built to
1423 specs.
Just don't expect the Spanish Inquisition.
.clive.murray. (at work)
news:5tghptckl7plaa4v3...@4ax.com...
> >I hear that the Vatican is releasing a range of digitally modelled Popes,
> >you can even change the bullet proof parameters of the Popemobile.
> >A Pro version is to follow with higher spec cardinals and digital
outputs.
> I've also heard that they plan a special edition Retro-pope built to
> 1423 specs.
>
> Just don't expect the Spanish Inquisition.
are there any plans to release a small-scale hatless travel-pope? while a
full size pope is certainly preferable, they won't go in the overhead
luggage locker and I don't like trusting my popes to the baggage handlers.
I did once, and when I got it home and opened the cassock, the finish was
severely damaged, the neck was bent, and I could hardly even get a mass out
of it.
--c.
--
* cliveatclivemurraydotcom | [don't use my hotmail address]
* - music | http://www.clivemurray.com/
* - website | http://earthman.org/
* "let's take the boat out, wait until darkness comes" -- peter gabriel
James Screaton
"Steve Dix" <st...@stevedix.de> wrote
>
> I've also heard that they plan a special edition Retro-pope built to
> 1423 specs.
>
> Just don't expect the Spanish Inquisition.
>
> ;->
>
I'll get my comfy chair ...
Cheers
James
PS I like the spanish inquisition style smiley ;->
Steve Dix
Speaking of Popes, does anyone recall the name and author of the
science-fiction short story in which a computer was made Pope?
Or am I starting to blow smoke?
vinny burns
"Rev T. N. Nurse"
>It has one MIDI in and
> 3 MIDI out, is dark brown and just says "Steinberger' on the top. There's
> nothing else to identify it.
Surely it says Steinberg !! Or maybe it doesn't :-). If its made by the same
people who make Cubase it will be Steinberg.
All the best.
Vinny.
Rick Booth
> Speaking of Popes, does anyone recall the name and author of the
> science-fiction short story in which a computer was made Pope?
That does ring a bell... hmm. You probably mean Robert Silverberg's
"Good News from the Vatican", since that was very popular, very good, and
won a Nebula:
http://owmyhead.com/silverberg/shorts/sgoodnewsfromthevatican.html
(Hmm, haven't read that, or indeed, any Silverberg, for ages. That's one
for the list after "The Lightstone" (Zindell) and "Perdido Street
Station" (Mieville).)
But you might not... I'm sure there were other stories with this premise,
but I can't actually think of any.
> Or am I starting to blow smoke?
Only you know that. Who's smoke?
Coat, here coat...
- rfb
--
ri...@rfbooth.com http://www.rfbooth.com/ 100% recycled electrons.
1) Download the backing track 2) Widdle like f*&k over it
3) Record it 4) Rank its shitness on a scale of 1 to 10
-- the wisdom of John Rimmer, PhD, in ukmg.
James Screaton
"Rick Booth" <richar...@umist.ac.uk> wrote
> (Hmm, haven't read that, or indeed, any Silverberg, for ages. That's one
> for the list after "The Lightstone" (Zindell) and "Perdido Street
> Station" (Mieville).)
other books to buy that day. I find GAS gets in the way of BAS :(
Cheers
James
Rick Booth
Reviews have been mixed on rasfw, but I liked it (finished it last
night). I'm not sure where this series is going - there are lots and
lots of echoes of the Reqiuem for Homo Sapiens, both in things like place
names and in characterisation, and I'm hoping that they're going to be
justified by some piece of outrageous cleverness somewhere in book three
or four.
However, just because I liked it doesn't necessarily mean that much, as
I'm a big-time Zindell fanboy. (Which is not to say that there's any
excuse for a SF fan not having read Neverness, other than difficulty in
getting hold of it. One of the best five or so SF novels I've ever
read.) Still, as fantasy goes, it's as good as almost all of it, and
better than most; but sadly most fantasy is very bad. It's better than
recent Eddings, certainly, but that's not saying much nowadays.
I foolishly went back into Waterstones today, to pick up an old Cherryh
book I ordered a while back. They had a sale on. Oh well, another dozen
books can't hurt too much. This month I'm finding BAS more of a problem
than GAS, and even the CDAS is relatively under control. Hopefully.
- rfb
--
ri...@rfbooth.com http://www.rfbooth.com/ Danger: nuts may contain nuts.
The reason that every major university maintains a department of
mathematics is that it's cheaper than institutionalizing us all.
James Screaton
"Rick Booth" <richar...@umist.ac.uk> wrote
> However, just because I liked it doesn't necessarily mean that much, as
> I'm a big-time Zindell fanboy. (Which is not to say that there's any
> excuse for a SF fan not having read Neverness, other than difficulty in
> getting hold of it. One of the best five or so SF novels I've ever
> read.) Still, as fantasy goes, it's as good as almost all of it, and
> better than most; but sadly most fantasy is very bad. It's better than
> recent Eddings, certainly, but that's not saying much nowadays.
>
aforementioned Eddings :)
Is it similar, and worth investigating (I know you're going to say yes :))
> I foolishly went back into Waterstones today, to pick up an old Cherryh
> book I ordered a while back. They had a sale on. Oh well, another dozen
> books can't hurt too much. This month I'm finding BAS more of a problem
> than GAS, and even the CDAS is relatively under control. Hopefully.
>
I think we should perhaps just say we have AS :))
NP Kiss it Better - Rick Booth (thats a scary coincidence :)
NR The Mystic Rose - Stephen Lawhead
Cheers
James
Steve Dix
wrote:
>Steve Dix <st...@stevedix.de> wrote:
>> Speaking of Popes, does anyone recall the name and author of the
>> science-fiction short story in which a computer was made Pope?
>
>That does ring a bell... hmm. You probably mean Robert Silverberg's
>"Good News from the Vatican", since that was very popular, very good, and
>won a Nebula:
> http://owmyhead.com/silverberg/shorts/sgoodnewsfromthevatican.html
>
>(Hmm, haven't read that, or indeed, any Silverberg, for ages. That's one
>for the list after "The Lightstone" (Zindell) and "Perdido Street
>Station" (Mieville).)
I think it is the Silverberg one.
>But you might not... I'm sure there were other stories with this premise,
>but I can't actually think of any.
>
>> Or am I starting to blow smoke?
>
>Only you know that. Who's smoke?
>
Vatican smoke!
Rick Booth
> I've never read any Zindell, although it did look similar in style to the
> aforementioned Eddings :)
It's quest-based epic fantasy, and rather better written than even early
Eddings (don't mention that last abomination... the only thing worse than
the book is the fact that I still kind of liked it. Arrgh!).
If you like hard SF, and especially epic hard SF with a philosophical
edge, you _must_ read _Neverness_ at once. I'll gladly lend it to you,
once I get it back from the person it's currently on loan to. (There is
a strict duty to evangelise really good but poorly known books...)
The rest of his work is also very good, but arguably over-long, and
arguably spends too much time rehashing Plato and Nitzche [1], but
worthwhile for people who aren't offended by long books.
> Is it similar, and worth investigating (I know you're going to say yes :))
Yes. I'll lend it to you if you want, if you're in Manchester at some
point.
> NP Kiss it Better - Rick Booth (thats a scary coincidence :)
Itºs just scary that you're listening to it...
- rfb
[1] I know that's spelt wrong. Sorry.
--
ri...@rfbooth.com http://www.rfbooth.com/ May become hot when heated.
Well done that man! Being snarfed by Rick's sigmonster is known to be
one of the highest attainments to which man can aspire.
-- Julian May demonstrates the power of flattery, in ukmg.
James Screaton
"Rick Booth" <richar...@umist.ac.uk> wrote
>
> If you like hard SF, and especially epic hard SF with a philosophical
> edge, you _must_ read _Neverness_ at once. I'll gladly lend it to you,
> once I get it back from the person it's currently on loan to. (There is
> a strict duty to evangelise really good but poorly known books...)
>
> The rest of his work is also very good, but arguably over-long, and
> arguably spends too much time rehashing Plato and Nitzche [1], but
> worthwhile for people who aren't offended by long books.
The only problem I find with long books is that they don't fit on shelves
very well :)
>
> > Is it similar, and worth investigating (I know you're going to say yes
:))
>
> Yes. I'll lend it to you if you want, if you're in Manchester at some
> point.
>
If we have the UKMGPU Manchester.v3 as hoped, or at Wigan - thanks.
> > NP Kiss it Better - Rick Booth (thats a scary coincidence :)
>
> Itºs just scary that you're listening to it...
I *really* like it, well apart from the first bit of drums being a little
unsubtle :)
Cheers
James
Rick Booth
James Screaton <j.scr...@sheffield.ac.uk> wrote:
> The only problem I find with long books is that they don't fit on shelves
> very well :)
Then you'll probably like the SF Zindell. The only people I know who didn't
were either anti-long-book or (in one case) had just finished a course on
western philosophy and didn't want any more right now thankyouohsoverymuch.
Are you a C J Cherryh fan? _Morgaine_ is probably the best fantasy work
I've ever read. And _Cyteen_ *may* be the best novel I've ever read, for
that matter.
The response to the newer book has't been so positive, partly because of
people going "hmm, suspicious similarities to earlier work, Eddings
syndrome alert!" and mainly because people were expecting something
transcendentally brilliant, and have been given a pretty decent fantasy
novel. Hey ho.
>> > NP Kiss it Better - Rick Booth (thats a scary coincidence :)
>>
>> Itºs just scary that you're listening to it...
>
> I *really* like it, well apart from the first bit of drums being a little
> unsubtle :)
I must try and redo it with some better drum sounds, and also fix the
occasional crap rhythm guitar timing issues... and look into the whole
backing vocals/keyboards thing. Thanks, btw!
- rfb
--
ri...@rfbooth.com http://www.rfbooth.com/ Void where prohibited.
[pattern-based widdling] you've just summed up my style, except I haven't
discovered what my target note is yet !! When I get there, I'll let you
know, although it's probably A. -- James Screaton confesses in ukmg
Jose I. de las Heras
Exactly what I wanted for my laptop... I must check this out!
Jose
James Screaton
"Rick Booth" <richar...@umist.ac.uk> wrote
>
> Are you a C J Cherryh fan? _Morgaine_ is probably the best fantasy work
> I've ever read. And _Cyteen_ *may* be the best novel I've ever read, for
> that matter.
nope - thats another new one to me </add to BAS list>
> The response to the newer book has't been so positive, partly because of
> people going "hmm, suspicious similarities to earlier work, Eddings
> syndrome alert!" and mainly because people were expecting something
> transcendentally brilliant, and have been given a pretty decent fantasy
> novel. Hey ho.
>
I do like the Eddings stuff, but it certainly follows certain lines,
regardless of which book/series you are reading.
I haven't really explored the genre sufficiently, as I end up reading too
much technical stuff, and never having enough time to read the fun stuff. I
liked the earlier Raymond Feist stuff, but the later stuff is pretty boring
really
> >> > NP Kiss it Better - Rick Booth (thats a scary coincidence :)
> >>
> >> Itºs just scary that you're listening to it...
> >
> > I *really* like it, well apart from the first bit of drums being a
little
> > unsubtle :)
>
> I must try and redo it with some better drum sounds, and also fix the
> occasional crap rhythm guitar timing issues... and look into the whole
> backing vocals/keyboards thing. Thanks, btw!
>
I don't think it was so much the drum sounds, as the way it came in. Drum
sounds are just about the hardest things to get right I think - even with a
real drummer.
Cheers
James
Ian Spencer
>
> "Rick Booth" <richar...@umist.ac.uk> wrote
> >
> > Are you a C J Cherryh fan? _Morgaine_ is probably the best fantasy work
> > I've ever read. And _Cyteen_ *may* be the best novel I've ever read,
for
> > that matter.
>
> nope - thats another new one to me </add to BAS list>
>
> > The response to the newer book has't been so positive, partly because of
> > people going "hmm, suspicious similarities to earlier work, Eddings
> > syndrome alert!" and mainly because people were expecting something
> > transcendentally brilliant, and have been given a pretty decent fantasy
> > novel. Hey ho.
> >
> I do like the Eddings stuff, but it certainly follows certain lines,
> regardless of which book/series you are reading.
> I haven't really explored the genre sufficiently, as I end up reading too
> much technical stuff, and never having enough time to read the fun stuff.
I
> liked the earlier Raymond Feist stuff, but the later stuff is pretty
boring
> really
>
This year I have been reading mainly the Belgarion stuff. Eddings writing
style is best described as naive. My particular irritation with him was the
obviously American fascination with sarcasm. The word "sardonically" was
used about 6 million times in the first two books. Still, readable romps and
one of the few fantasy writers I have survived...
Presumably you have done Iain M Banks to death. Possibly one of the great
things is that he re-invented traditional sci-fi which seemed to have died a
death since the great writers. Love the Culture stuff.
Ian
Mike Whitaker
> things is that he re-invented traditional sci-fi which seemed to have died
> a death since the great writers. Love the Culture stuff.
Moving slightly back towards guitars - if you like Iain Banks (he drops the
M when he's going mainstream), you have to read "Espedair Street".
Brilliant.
If you want to mix your SF and rock, grab a copy of Gael Baudino's
"Gossamer Axe", if you can find one (http://www.addall.com/ to search for a
secondhand copy), or Emma Bull's "War For The Oaks".
--
Mike Whitaker: mi...@altrion.org
Guitar stash: http://www.altrion.org/guitars.html
UKMG Homepage: http://www.ukmg.org.uk/
James Screaton
"Ian Spencer" <JustForN...@tesco.net> wrote
>
> Presumably you have done Iain M Banks to death. Possibly one of the great
> things is that he re-invented traditional sci-fi which seemed to have died
a
> death since the great writers. Love the Culture stuff.
>
er nope :) Isn't he more Sci-Fi than fantasy ?
Cheers
James
Rick Booth
>>
>> Are you a C J Cherryh fan? _Morgaine_ is probably the best fantasy work
>> I've ever read. And _Cyteen_ *may* be the best novel I've ever read, for
>> that matter.
>
> nope - thats another new one to me </add to BAS list>
If you're a "fantasy not science fiction" guy (as I think you might be
from a post elsewhere in the thread", Cyteen may not be for you. It's
fairly hard sociopolitical SF, as is probably most of Cherryh's work.
The recommendation for Morgaine stands,and again I'm willing to lend.
> I do like the Eddings stuff, but it certainly follows certain lines,
> regardless of which book/series you are reading.
I didn't mind that so much, it's just that the recent stuff has been so
dreadfully twee anbd self-indulgent. His best work, to my taste, is his
non-genre novel, _The Losers_.
> I haven't really explored the genre sufficiently, as I end up reading too
> much technical stuff, and never having enough time to read the fun stuff. I
> liked the earlier Raymond Feist stuff, but the later stuff is pretty boring
> really
His early stuff was really really good, but I've also lost interest now.
The original Riftwar saga was as good as anything in the genre, and
_Faerie Tale_ (which I've probably misspelt, hey ho) is a truly great
horror fantasy.
> I don't think it was so much the drum sounds, as the way it came in.
woo, on topic! Scary... yeah, it is a little apocalyptic, isn't it <grin>?
> Drum sounds are just about the hardest things to get right I think -
> even with a real drummer.
Agreed.
- rfb
--
ri...@rfbooth.com http://www.rfbooth.com/ Made from non-edible parts.
I would describe it as Classical jazz cock rock gothic metal with a
smattering of melodic deathtechno and jungleacid or something.
-- Vinny Burns describing his style, in ukmg.
Rick Booth
> This year I have been reading mainly the Belgarion stuff. Eddings writing
> style is best described as naive.
Um, yeah. I have to admit that I adored that stuff when it was first
coming out, but I was young and dumb, and LA glam ruled the earth, and I
still thought Anne McCaffrey wrote science fiction. Or readably, for
that matter.
I still reread Eddings and McCaffrey when I'm unwell and in need of
something comfortable, and the earlier stuff is actually pretty good (at
least for Eddings).
> Still, readable romps and one of the few fantasy writers I have
> survived...
Well, if you've only read the Belgarion stuff there's another few to
survive yet. That was not advocacy <g>.
Robert Jordan seems to be getting a lot of fantantical adoration at the
moment, and I certainly found them worth buying. I mean, it's not going
to change your life, but it's at the better end of the genre.
> Presumably you have done Iain M Banks to death. Possibly one of the great
> things is that he re-invented traditional sci-fi which seemed to have died a
> death since the great writers. Love the Culture stuff.
I ought to like him, and every few years or so I have a go. No luck so
far, but it's been about five years since I last tried. I should try
again, I knnow I'm going to really like it once I'm in <g>, but it's not
like I'm short of books to read at the moment...
- rfb
--
ri...@rfbooth.com http://www.rfbooth.com/ Cape does not enable flight.
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he
is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe and not
make messes in the house. -- Lazarus Long, "Time Enough for Love"
Rick Booth
> Moving slightly back towards guitars - if you like Iain Banks (he drops the
> M when he's going mainstream), you have to read "Espedair Street".
> Brilliant.
Noted. I'll look up my local Banks fans and borrow that one.
> If you want to mix your SF and rock, grab a copy of Gael Baudino's
> "Gossamer Axe", if you can find one (http://www.addall.com/ to search for a
> secondhand copy), or Emma Bull's "War For The Oaks".
Also noted. I've been keeping an eye out for the Baudino since you
mentioned it in the context of your custom guitar, but it seems very much
unavailable right now. I have a list of things to look out for in
second-hand shops, and that's on it. (I'm avoiding online out-of-print
searches atm, since they tend to be expensive and as mentioned earlier,
it's not like I'm short of stuff to read...)
- rfb
--
ri...@rfbooth.com http://www.rfbooth.com/ Made from non-edible parts.
If you're a bass player in a rock band, you are by definition a moron.
-- Scott Thunes
Ian Spencer
Well, I can heartily recommend him in both his forms. Nominally Iain Banks
is literature and Iain M Banks is Sci-Fi but Iain Banks is quite often what
I might regard as Fantasy, i.e. other worldly. The Bridge is an example,
based nominally around someone who has a car crash and is in a coma and
there are 3 parallel stories - the reason for the crash, the dream world of
the coma (the Fantasy bit) and people treating him (at least I think that's
the plot).
Most of Iain M Banks is based on the Culture. The basic premise is that
through hyper-advanced technology the ability to provide any wants for
individuals can be provided. Generally, the science doesn't get in the way,
it is a given.
The main advantage is that if you get into him, you have a year or two's
reading ahead of you :)
Ian
steve_cobham
Couldn't he be both at the same time?
Farmer's Riverboat series always struck me as having elements of both.
I still read SF - I'm now starting to go back and re-read all the
classics I first started out on - Asimov, Dick, Zelazney, Anderson,
Sheckley, Harrison, Sturgeon, Leiber, etc, but fantasy just leaves me
cold these days.
I used to have tons of the stuff but now I just have Lord Of The Rings
and the Gormenghast trilogy.
(Not forgetting Bradbury's "Something Wicked This Way Comes" and King
and Straub's "The Talisman" - the only other fantasy novels I still
have - the latter of which, incidentally, has a sequel coming out
soon.)
Anything else just bores me to death these days and those two works
(LOTR and TGT) just seem to get rewritten to death by new writers IMO.
Even LOTR never gets a read these days........
I tried Pratchett, but couldn't get on with him and didn't find him as
amusing as I'd been told he was.
Even my great love - contemporary horror - currently seems to be
stagnant and Stephen King needs to install a few more personal QC
monitors.
These days I'm more into crime - Lehane, Shames, Leonard, Hiaasen,
Harstedt, Parker, Lansdale, etc - with a human face and maybe some
humour.
John Connolly is my current fave. Visceral stuff, great
characterisation and original plots with a sort of almost spooky
element at times.
All US writers as well - it's only Mark Timlin's Sharman books that
appeal out of UK crime writers, although I've become a Morse fan. The
books are so much better than the TV series.
As for Banks, I still don't think he's surpassed the Wasp Factory.
That was a seriously original novel, and, in its way, a work of
fantasy.
Lastly, let me recommend Willy Russell's "The Wrong Boy".
All I can say is wow.....
I was hooked from page one and almost read it in one sitting and it's
a 500 page book.
Funny - laugh-out-loud funny in places - and extremely poignant.
The strange method of catching flies and the camp nativity play are a
scream........and Raymond's Gran is one of the great literary
characters as far as I'm concerned.
Not the most believable plot you'll ever read, but thoroughly
engrossing.
Quite a few references to music, too, including Morrissey and the
Smiths in particular, Albert Lee and Zappa. Also mentions of Gretsches
and Rickenbackers.
Steve.
================================================
Guitar and bass tuition - all styles and levels.
http://users.powernet.co.uk/guitars/tuition.htm
E-mail: st...@XSPAMXguitarsXMAPSX.powernet.co.uk
(Please remove obvious spam deterrent)
Interested in Zappa? Guitar? Beer?
Save money by setting up your own guitar!
How about trading Zappa and Danny Gatton tapes?
http://users.powernet.co.uk/guitars/
Heb de Latz und schpill dini Gitare.
================================================
Mike Whitaker
> The recommendation for Morgaine stands,and again I'm willing to lend.
Seconded many many many times. Go and buy! Now! And if you can get a hold
of the two graphic novels based on Gate of Ivrel, again, buy!
Mike, who just reread the Morgaine books. Awesome.
Steve Dix
<JustForN...@tesco.net> wrote:
>Presumably you have done Iain M Banks to death. Possibly one of the great
>things is that he re-invented traditional sci-fi which seemed to have died a
>death since the great writers. Love the Culture stuff.
>
Traditional SF is alive and well thanks to Stephen Baxter. He does
have a tendency to go a bit Greg Bear and occasionally - very
occasionally - overexplain a rather tedious physics theory. But only
occasionally. I'd reccomend the excellent "Raft" as a place to start
with his Xeelee books. Avoid Flux - a bit disappointing, to be frank.
His alternative histories are good, with the best by far being
"Anti-Ice", where Victorian scientists mine an antimatter comet found
in the antarctic, with results which include a voyage to the dark side
of the moon. "Titan" is depressing. "Mars" is good too, being an
alternative history of the American space program using Apollo
remnants to engineer a flight to Mars, instead of backing the Reusable
Vehicle concept of the Shuttle.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say that I would take "Anti-Ice" to a
desert island with me. When I first came over here I could only bring
a few books, and I brought it as well as "Soul Music" by Terry
Pratchett, and "Lost In Music" by Giles Smith.
James Screaton
"Ian Spencer" <JustForN...@tesco.net> wrote
>
> Well, I can heartily recommend him in both his forms. Nominally Iain Banks
> is literature and Iain M Banks is Sci-Fi but Iain Banks is quite often
what
> I might regard as Fantasy, i.e. other worldly. The Bridge is an example,
> based nominally around someone who has a car crash and is in a coma and
> there are 3 parallel stories - the reason for the crash, the dream world
of
> the coma (the Fantasy bit) and people treating him (at least I think
that's
> the plot).
>
> Most of Iain M Banks is based on the Culture. The basic premise is that
> through hyper-advanced technology the ability to provide any wants for
> individuals can be provided. Generally, the science doesn't get in the
way,
> it is a given.
>
> The main advantage is that if you get into him, you have a year or two's
> reading ahead of you :)
>
er thanks </dubious do to increased BAS>
Cheers
James
steve_cobham
<JustForN...@tesco.net> wrote:
>Well, I can heartily recommend him in both his forms. Nominally Iain Banks
>is literature and Iain M Banks is Sci-Fi but Iain Banks is quite often what
>I might regard as Fantasy, i.e. other worldly. The Bridge is an example,
>based nominally around someone who has a car crash and is in a coma and
>there are 3 parallel stories - the reason for the crash, the dream world of
>the coma (the Fantasy bit) and people treating him (at least I think that's
>the plot).
That's a great book!
After quite a few reads I still haven't worked it all out yet either.
Interesting sex scene where a corset and the Bridge components get
mixed up in the main character's mind.
The first time I read that was just before I took a school party to
the famous Ironbridge on a school trip. When I got there I just
couldn't get the mental image of a corset out of my mind.......
Rick Booth
> Well, I can heartily recommend him in both his forms. Nominally Iain Banks
<nitpick>
What, and SF isn't literature? I think you mean "literary fiction".
</nitpick>
(The following rant is in no way directed at Ian.)
It's a great con-trick the lit-fic people have pulled... everything else
is "genre fiction", apart from their one genre. And obviously SF (say)
isn't proper writing... provided you point to all examples of SF that are
really good by litfic standards and say they aren't SF. (The canonical
example of this is _Flowers for Algernon_, of course.)
Waaaah!
And breathe. And relax. I must admit that the perception of SF, and
especially of fantasy, is not helped by the tendency of fans to buy and
recommend utter crap. while Sturgeon's Law (90% of everything is crap)
is undoubtedly true, in SF&F the crap tends to sell disconcertingly well.
Also, of course, non-fans think of SF in terms of TV programs (mostly not
good) and films (mostly appalling). I'm not convinced that SF-based
films are generally any worse than the run of Hollywood's output, but the
difference is that people think the books are like that as well.
And then well-meaning fans recommend that people start with the classics,
like Foundation. Nooooooo! You shouldn't read Asimov unless you're a
fan who wants to understand the historical roots of SF. The man couldn't
write his way out of a paper bag! (Yes, he's foundational (obPun) and
the field wouldn't be the same without him and I have lots of his books
and I won't be getting rid of them. Still, as literature, his early
books are appalling.)
Today's venting was brought to you by the number 3, the letter G, and the
really rather good lunch I just had. You're welcome!
ObGuitar: I haven't touched a guitar since Saturday. This is not
natural. I'm lying awake at night in my hotel room air-guitaring scale
patterns and worrying about my callouses [1]. Not good, really. And
Portuguese radio seems to have a big soft rock fetish going on. Toto,
Air Supply, Starship, Richard Marx, and lots of pink Floyd, strangely.
I am experiencing fear.
- rfb
[1] Yeah, alright, insert joke here.
--
ri...@rfbooth.com http://www.rfbooth.com/ Cape does not enable flight.
I tell them to turn to the study of mathematics, for it is only there
that they might escape the lusts of the flesh.
-- Thomas Mann, "The Magic Mountain"
Rick Booth
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:38:00 +0100, "James Screaton"
> <j.scr...@sheffield.ac.uk> wrote:
>>er nope :) Isn't he more Sci-Fi than fantasy ?
>
> Couldn't he be both at the same time?
The dividing line is very hard to draw, if indeed it makes any sense at
all. I mean, McCaffrey swore up and down that the Pern books were
science fiction...
> [snip] fantasy just leaves me cold these days.
So much of it is bad, sadly.
> I used to have tons of the stuff but now I just have Lord Of The Rings
> and the Gormenghast trilogy.
Gormenghast, truly brilliant. LotR - well, I have heretical opinions on
this one, so I'll settle for "influential" <grin>.
> I tried Pratchett, but couldn't get on with him and didn't find him as
> amusing as I'd been told he was.
Some people don't, and many of his fans are pretty rabidly into him. I
like him, myself, especially because he gets people who might not
otherwise read much to read. This is a Goodly Thing. There's a lot more
depth to his work than is obvious, too.
> Even my great love - contemporary horror - currently seems to be
> stagnant and Stephen King needs to install a few more personal QC
> monitors.
Yeah. I haven't even read the most recent couple of King books I bought.
You might like Dan Simmon's _Hyperion_ cantos, which is really somewhere
where fantasy, SF and horror all come together. Don't be put off by the
_very_ purple prologue, it gets much better quickly... and probably
deserved its Hugo.
And everyone who likes character-based SF-type stuff should go out now
and buy everything Lois McMaster Bujold has written. And read it,
obviously.
- rfb
--
ri...@rfbooth.com http://www.rfbooth.com/ Made from non-edible parts.
September 25th: Discovered lots of things about Dynamic HTML.
Notably that almost every site attempting to use it is crap.
-- Alan Cox's Diary
steve_cobham
wrote:
>Ian Spencer <JustForN...@tesco.net> wrote:
>> Well, I can heartily recommend him in both his forms. Nominally Iain Banks
>> is literature and Iain M Banks is Sci-Fi [snip]
>
><nitpick>
> What, and SF isn't literature? I think you mean "literary fiction".
></nitpick>
>
>(The following rant is in no way directed at Ian.)
<heavy snippage of good stuff>
>Today's venting was brought to you by the number 3, the letter G,
G3?
A Freudian slip perchance?
>and the
>really rather good lunch I just had. You're welcome!
And a very good rant it was.
Lots of sense there :-)
The literary establishment has a lot to answer for.
Who exactly reads the Booker Prize winners anyway?
Apart from the Booker Prize Committee that is..........
Even then I have my doubts, judging by some of the crap that's "made
the grade".
>ObGuitar: I haven't touched a guitar since Saturday. This is not
> natural. I'm lying awake at night in my hotel room air-guitaring scale
> patterns and worrying about my callouses [1]. Not good, really. And
> Portuguese radio seems to have a big soft rock fetish going on. Toto,
Yummy!
I looooove Toto!
Even the smoochy stuff!
> Air Supply, Starship, Richard Marx, and lots of pink Floyd, strangely.
> I am experiencing fear.
You wait until they put some REO Speedwagon, Grand Funk Railroad or
Styx on - then you have my permission to cack yourself silly.
>
>- rfb
>
>[1] Yeah, alright, insert joke here.
Nah - too obvious.
Anyway, I'm sure you already have one in hand ;-)
Steve Dix
wrote:
>> I tried Pratchett, but couldn't get on with him and didn't find him as
>> amusing as I'd been told he was.
>
>Some people don't, and many of his fans are pretty rabidly into him. I
>like him, myself, especially because he gets people who might not
>otherwise read much to read. This is a Goodly Thing. There's a lot more
>depth to his work than is obvious, too.
>
>
Case in point - read "Soul Music". I'm still finding things in there.
steve_cobham
wrote:
>Steve wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:38:00 +0100, "James Screaton"
>> <j.scr...@sheffield.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>er nope :) Isn't he more Sci-Fi than fantasy ?
>>
>> Couldn't he be both at the same time?
>
>The dividing line is very hard to draw, if indeed it makes any sense at
>all.
Quite.
> I mean, McCaffrey swore up and down that the Pern books were
>science fiction...
Well, in that they were based on another planet elsewhere in our
universe she could argue that they were with some justification.
The Dune novels - and apart from a certain grandeur in the first book,
IMO, what an overrated pile of tosh - have always struck me as more
fantasy than SF.
However, as you say, the separation of fantasy from SF sometimes seems
extremely false and laboured.
>
>> [snip] fantasy just leaves me cold these days.
>
>So much of it is bad, sadly.
Yup.
>
>> I used to have tons of the stuff but now I just have Lord Of The Rings
>> and the Gormenghast trilogy.
>
>Gormenghast, truly brilliant.
A definite "cut above".
> LotR - well, I have heretical opinions on
>this one, so I'll settle for "influential" <grin>.
Yup - and losing its appeal to me with every passing year.
>
>> I tried Pratchett, but couldn't get on with him and didn't find him as
>> amusing as I'd been told he was.
>
>Some people don't, and many of his fans are pretty rabidly into him. I
>like him, myself, especially because he gets people who might not
>otherwise read much to read. This is a Goodly Thing.
Indeed it is.
>There's a lot more
>depth to his work than is obvious, too.
OK - maybe I'll try again.
>
>> Even my great love - contemporary horror - currently seems to be
>> stagnant and Stephen King needs to install a few more personal QC
>> monitors.
>
>Yeah. I haven't even read the most recent couple of King books I bought.
I couldn't finish the last one - "Dreamcatcher".
A sad departure from the days when I'd have read a bus timetable if it
had been written by him - and it would have been a bloody good bus
timetable to boot!
>
>You might like Dan Simmon's _Hyperion_ cantos, which is really somewhere
>where fantasy, SF and horror all come together. Don't be put off by the
>_very_ purple prologue, it gets much better quickly... and probably
>deserved its Hugo.
I love Dan Simmons' SF and his horror titles ain't bad.
His "Carrion Comfort" is one of the all-time great vampire books, with
a few original twists, and his "Summer of Night", whilst being
somewhat of an SK "It" clone is just fantastically well-written.
In the field of horror, Richard Laymon just gets better and better as
he gets more tongue-in-cheek with every book.
And Dean Koontz gets worse and worse..........
>
>And everyone who likes character-based SF-type stuff should go out now
>and buy everything Lois McMaster Bujold has written. And read it,
>obviously.
I've read a couple, but I can't say that they stuck in my mind.
Rick Booth
> On 11 Sep 2001 15:20:17 +0100, Rick Booth <richar...@umist.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>>Today's venting was brought to you by the number 3, the letter G,
>
> G3?
>
> A Freudian slip perchance?
Um, yeah, totally. Well spotted!
>>and the
>>really rather good lunch I just had. You're welcome!
>
> And a very good rant it was.
why thank you!
> Who exactly reads the Booker Prize winners anyway?
I mean to, I really do. Sometimes they're great, sometimes... well, the
modern and postmodern novel is just not my favourite artform, I guess.
> Yummy!
>
> I looooove Toto!
>
> Even the smoochy stuff!
AOL, absolutely. Great songs, great musicianship, the greatest heavily
effected rock lead tone ever, and superb guitar playing. (Even if his
tuition video's crap). Any day that starts with Africa on the radio is
the better for it.
- rfb
--
ri...@rfbooth.com http://www.rfbooth.com/ Don't try this at home.
Your elbow should ideally be located halfway along your arm, and bend.
-- C. Damian Law gets technical, in ukmg
Rick Booth
>>Some people don't, and many of his fans are pretty rabidly into him. I
>>like him, myself, especially because he gets people who might not
>>otherwise read much to read. This is a Goodly Thing.
>
> Indeed it is.
There's been much discussion in rasfw recently about the latest Harry
Potter winning the 2201 best novel Hugo. The best comment in the thread
so far went something along the lines of "she's made a million teenagers
pick up and read a 700-page novel, and left them hungry for more. I
cannot imagine a greater contribution to western civilisation."
And I couldn't agree more.
>>There's a lot more
>>depth to his work than is obvious, too.
>
> OK - maybe I'll try again.
To my mind, _Good Omens_, with Neil Gaiman, is his best work. It is
truly stunning. For musicians, as Steve Dix has already
sort-of-mentioned, _Soul Music_ is worth reading, though it may draw a
little heavily on the Discworld background for non-fans to really get
into it. I dunno, I've read all but the very latest so I can't really
put myself in that position.
[King]
> A sad departure from the days when I'd have read a bus timetable if it
> had been written by him - and it would have been a bloody good bus
> timetable to boot!
Absolutely. _The Stand_ and _It_ remain among the best novels I know,
for their totally accurate portrayal of what it's like to be human.
>>And everyone who likes character-based SF-type stuff should go out now
>>and buy everything Lois McMaster Bujold has written. And read it,
>>obviously.
>
> I've read a couple, but I can't say that they stuck in my mind.
They certainly stuck in mine... oh well, one man's meat is another
man's... I dunno, porn?
- rfb
--
ri...@rfbooth.com http://www.rfbooth.com/ Made from non-edible parts.
If it looks like a troll, smells like a troll and quacks like a troll...
... kill it. It's a troll.
-- Mike Whitaker talking sense, in ukmg.
Paul Simpson
news:9nl6j1$48i$1...@maclin.ma.umist.ac.uk...
> <nitpick>
> What, and SF isn't literature? I think you mean "literary fiction".
> </nitpick>
It's writing. In a book. It has the capability of excellence. It's
literature.
. while Sturgeon's Law (90% of everything is crap)
> is undoubtedly true,
Yo, bro! Damn right. Never heard of that one before.
> And then well-meaning fans recommend that people start with the classics,
> like Foundation. Nooooooo! You shouldn't read Asimov unless you're a
> fan who wants to understand the historical roots of SF. The man couldn't
> write his way out of a paper bag! (Yes, he's foundational (obPun) and
> the field wouldn't be the same without him and I have lots of his books
> and I won't be getting rid of them. Still, as literature, his early
> books are appalling.)
Read bits and pieces of his as a teenager. Man was a genius, couldn't write
for toffee. Glad it's not just me that thought that.
> ObGuitar: I haven't touched a guitar since Saturday. This is not
> natural. I'm lying awake at night in my hotel room air-guitaring scale
> patterns and worrying about my callouses [1]. Not good, really.
This is *exactly* what caused me to get a Steinberger cricket bat when
started working for ICL. I know whereof you speak! There should be a name
for these symptoms...
And
> Portuguese radio seems to have a big soft rock fetish going on. Toto,
> Air Supply, Starship, Richard Marx,
<sluggy>
*bleck!*
</sluggy>
>and lots of pink Floyd,
Groovy!
>strangely.
> I am experiencing fear.
>
Not strange *at all*.
--
All the best,
Paul.
Paul Simpson
news:bnrrptg0br1uosjjf...@4ax.com...
> I tried Pratchett, but couldn't get on with him and didn't find him as
> amusing as I'd been told he was.
>
Try Robert Rankin, Britain's best cult author, instead. And I mean 'cult'
in the old-fashioned sense, not like the X-Files is supposed to be a 'cult'
when it's so mainstream it's on BBC 1. He's not going to make you think
deeply about the meaning of life, but I guarantee you've never read anything
quite like his novels. Running gags, Elvis Presley on an epic journey
through time and space (the 'Presliad'), naughty sex habits, nasty nuclear
leftovers, Christeen (Jesus's twin sister who got written out of the bible),
a time travelling Sprout called Barry, weird occult stuff and pints of Large
in the Flying Swan with Neville the permanent part-time bar man. I
introduced his books to Torpedo Dave, who is now also a fan. I've actually
met Robert and he's a top bloke (he bought this poor student a pint too!)
and definitely a genuine eccentric.
See http://www.lostcarpark.com/sproutlore/ for more.
Rick Booth
> Rick Booth <richar...@umist.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:9nl6j1$48i$1...@maclin.ma.umist.ac.uk...
>> <nitpick>
>> What, and SF isn't literature? I think you mean "literary fiction".
>> </nitpick>
>
> It's writing. In a book. It has the capability of excellence. It's
> literature.
Indeed. As I said, the category the OP was calling "literature" should
be referred to by some more specific term. Litfic will do for me.
> . while Sturgeon's Law (90% of everything is crap)
>> is undoubtedly true,
>
> Yo, bro! Damn right. Never heard of that one before.
It's really a very highly condensed version of the rational bit of my
earlier rant, though if course the casuality runs the other way. Dates
from an interview with SF moderately-great Theodore S. I'll include a
quote as well as a link, from a paraphrase by one there at the time:
: The general thrust of Ted's remarks was that science fiction was the only
: genre that was evaluated by its worst examples rather than its best.
: "When people talk about the mystery novel," Ted said, as I remember,
: "they mention The Maltese Falcon and The Big Sleep. When they talk about
: the western, they say there's The Way West and Shane. But when they talk
: about science fiction, they call it 'that Buck Rogers stuff,' and they
: say 'ninety percent of science fiction is crud.' Well, they're right.
: Ninety percent of science fiction is crud. But then ninety percent of
: everything is crud, and it's the ten percent that isn't crud that is
: important. and the ten percent of science fiction that isn't crud is as
: good as or better than anything being written anywhere."
From http://glinda.lrsm.upenn.edu/~weeks/misc/slaw.html .
Indeed, and I would say that the very best novels I have read have _all_
been SF, at least to a good approximation. We can stack up truly great
writers against any of the classic novelists, and ours are mostly not
dead yet either.
To pick a pet example, Dickens is certainly great, and he explores what
it means to be human and grow as a human brilliantly; but no better than
does Caroline Cherryh. (Işm serious. I may be wrong, but I mean it...)
Larry Niven once said (paraphrasing from memory) "give an English teacher
a short novel by Cherryh. If itşs short heşll keep his promise to read
it, and itşs good by his standards as well as yours."
Tragically, very few of the great works of SF, which has been in another
largely unheralded golden age since the early 80s, have achieved anything
like the reputation they deserve even among fans. While Işm chuntering
away, here's a few masterpieces:
_Cyteen_, C J Cherryh.
_Neverness_, David Zindell.
_A Fire Upon The Deep_, Vernor Vinge.
I have never read anything better than any of these. They are all quite
long.
Then thereşs stuff like _Cryptonomicon_and _Snow Crash_, brilliant if
flawed, by Neal Stephenson, who _has_ has the recognition he deserves.
And just for entertainment, _Mirror Dance_, Lois McMaster Bujold.
Probably not the best introduction to the Vorkosigan cycle, but you can
read it later knowing the context after youşre hooked.
And this thread has probably been more active than the whole of
uk.media.books.sf this week! uk.music.guitar.sf, anyone?
[Asimov]
> Read bits and pieces of his as a teenager. Man was a genius, couldn't write
> for toffee. Glad it's not just me that thought that.
It's a widely held opinion, I assure you. His _science_ writing, otoh,
is extremely lucid and mostly very good indeed.
>> ObGuitar: I haven't touched a guitar since Saturday. This is not
>> natural. I'm lying awake at night in my hotel room air-guitaring scale
>> patterns and worrying about my callouses [1]. Not good, really.
>
> This is *exactly* what caused me to get a Steinberger cricket bat when
> started working for ICL. I know whereof you speak!
And it was in preparation for this that I was going to get one, and I
would have if the GAS for the G-Major had not bitten me first.
- rfb
--
ri...@rfbooth.com http://www.rfbooth.com/ 100% recycled electrons.
What we need is a girl with very small fingers.
-- Prof. Alexandre Borovik
Mike Whitaker
> it means to be human and grow as a human brilliantly; but no better than
> does Caroline Cherryh.
Carolyn. (trust me, I've met her...)
> While Iºm chuntering
> away, here's a few masterpieces:
>
> _Cyteen_, C J Cherryh.
Also Downbelow Station, which I'd be rereading right now if it wasn't up in
the loft.
Steve Dix
wrote:
>Steve wrote:
>To my mind, _Good Omens_, with Neil Gaiman, is his best work. It is
>truly stunning. For musicians, as Steve Dix has already
>sort-of-mentioned, _Soul Music_ is worth reading, though it may draw a
>little heavily on the Discworld background for non-fans to really get
>into it.
I do actually have a story about meeting Terry Pratchett, around the
time of "Moving Pictures" in paperback and "Witches Abroad" in
hardback. He was at Andromeda, in the days when it was next to the
guitar shop where I got my first Rickenbacker in about 1992. As he
signed my copy I asked him why didn't he do a book about rock and roll
on the discworld. He said he'd think about it.
He's also worth looking at for his Non-discworld fiction. Have a look
at Strata, where a discworld is discovered in the normal universe.
Rick Booth
>> To pick a pet example, Dickens is certainly great, and he explores what
>> it means to be human and grow as a human brilliantly; but no better than
>> does Caroline Cherryh.
>
> Carolyn. (trust me, I've met her...)
Oops... I'd really like to meet her. Astounding writer.
>> While Işm chuntering
>> away, here's a few masterpieces:
>>
>> _Cyteen_, C J Cherryh.
>
> Also Downbelow Station, which I'd be rereading right now if it wasn't up in
> the loft.
I was limiting myself to one per author, and I think _cyteen_ is her best
(of the ones I've read, which is not _quite_ everything). But yes,
Downbelow Station is brilliant. In fact, I've never read anything of
hers that was worse than "very good *indeed*". Though I think she's done
some tie-ins, Superman or Star Trek or something, which are probably not
to be read. (Yes, I have prejudices too. But mine are _right_.)
- rfb
--
ri...@rfbooth.com http://www.rfbooth.com/ Made from non-edible parts.
When my main Inbox folder hits 2000 messages, I sit bolt upright for 16
hours and cause it to contain less than 200 messages.
-- Jamie Zawinski on time management
Rick Booth
[of Pratchett]
> at Strata, where a discworld is discovered in the normal universe.
I thought that owed just a leetle bit too much to Ringworld, myself. I
really really like another SF book he did, which is probably called _Dark
Side of the Sun_. I don't remember for sure.
- rfb
--
ri...@rfbooth.com http://www.rfbooth.com/ Void where prohibited.
[pattern-based widdling] you've just summed up my style, except I haven't
discovered what my target note is yet !! When I get there, I'll let you
know, although it's probably A. -- James Screaton confesses in ukmg
Paul Simpson
> Steve Dix <st...@stevedix.de> wrote:
> [of Pratchett]
> > He's also worth looking at for his Non-discworld fiction. Have a look
> > at Strata, where a discworld is discovered in the normal universe.
>
> I thought that owed just a leetle bit too much to Ringworld, myself. I
> really really like another SF book he did, which is probably called _Dark
> Side of the Sun_. I don't remember for sure.
Yep, that's the one. I read 'em both, and for me I'm afraid they fell into
the '90%' category of everything... 'Good Omens' was *superb*, though.
Rick Booth
Ooh, I wouldn't go that far. They just weren't in the 1% (or so) that is
really really good [1]. As you say, _Good Omens_ probably was.
Now, I can't really understand what you see in Rankin. I mean, he's
entertaining and all, but not especially so. Hey ho.
- rfb
[1] Which is not necessarily connected to "really really like". I mean,
I like a whopper with cheese, but it's not great food...
--
ri...@rfbooth.com http://www.rfbooth.com/ May become hot when heated.
When it comes to making people snap, wear black, and shoot high school
students, Eminem and Marilyn Manson are frickin' pansies compared to
Oasis. -- Doug Boucher, in a.m.m-k
Paul Simpson
> Ooh, I wouldn't go that far. They just weren't in the 1% (or so) that is
> really really good [1]. As you say, _Good Omens_ probably was.
>
Think I was probably disappointed at the time that they weren't more like
the Discworld novels... still didn't reckon much to the stories though.
Soz!
> Now, I can't really understand what you see in Rankin. I mean, he's
> entertaining and all, but not especially so. Hey ho.
<fanboy>
Different strokes - different folks. I think I also have a general
attraction to things that are unique, or at least not quite like anything
else. I might be wrong, but so far I haven't read anything else quite like
Rankin, and he has a definite style all of his own. Torpedo Daves favourite
bit in The Sprouts Of Wrath is when an alien race is invading Brentford, a
floating camel (long story) almost collides with one of the invading ships
and the captain yells "Those Bastards don't miss a trick!" - great stuff!
I'd like to think that if I ever wrote a novel it would read like one of Mr.
Rankins. Laugh out loud stuff, for me at least. I've been reading his
stuff for - ooh, what, eleven years now? - and he still keeps his ideas
fresh, and has never really written a bad novel (although The Garden of
Unearthly Delights was a bit iffy).
</fanboy>
Paul Simpson
news:9no0bb$8m6lr$1...@ID-70736.news.dfncis.de...
Sorry to go on...
Just found this on the Sproutlore Website in an interview with the Robert -
I *love* this man's attitude! (Close to my own in many respects).
MC: So do you read other peoples books while you are writing?
RR: I've said this a hundred times, I've not read a novel since nineteen
eighty one. When I put the first book in, they said they liked the book and
if we took out all the Flann O'Brien and all the Spike Milligan there might
be something left that was my book. So quite a lot went, and what was left
was my book, and I realised that to write a book you have to find your own
voice in writing, that its not somebody else's voice. It can't be like
somebody else, I mean what's the point. I've said this before, when I went
into writing I wanted to create a new genre of fiction that wasn't like
anybody else's. It was going to be called Far Fetched Fiction, I would have
my own book shelf in Smiths, with just my books in them and it would be
bliss. But it didn't quite work out like that, I ended up in a general
fiction section, and then they realised that I didn't write general fiction
and I ended up in science fiction, which I feel a bit of a fraud for being
there. Because people who write science fiction don't know what I write,
and. I've forgotten what I was going to say, what was I going to say?
MC: I have no idea.
RR: I was afraid to read another persons books because I knew I would lift a
paragraph here, an idea here, a character there, I just knew I would. So I
knew if I did get published as a writer, don't read other peoples books, don
't read other fiction. You're left with millions upon millions of other
books that aren't fiction, I've never stopped buying books, I just don't buy
fiction. It always tickles me when someone says "I know where you got that
idea. I've read that book," I just say "For Christ's sake, check the dates
on the cover." Because I have been gloriously ripped off.
Rick Booth
Indeed, as otherwise that would be friendlier than I wanna get. I mean,
I like you and stuff, and you can pass out on my floor again any time,
but there are limits.
> </fanboy>
About time too <g>. I've read (and quite enjoyed) perhaps three of
Rankins's, and they mainly reminded me of a more absurdist and less
mythology-rooted Tom Holt. Do you like his stuff?
- rfb
--
ri...@rfbooth.com http://www.rfbooth.com/ Add contents and stir.
Q: How hard can REALHAMSTER be buggered?
A: Very hard. REALHAMSTER can safely withstand over 200 lbs of thrust.
-- http://www.realhamster.com/faq.html
Paul Simpson
> Paul Simpson <p_r_s...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Different strokes - different folks.
>
> Indeed, as otherwise that would be friendlier than I wanna get. I mean,
> I like you and stuff, and you can pass out on my floor again any time,
> but there are limits.
>
LOL!
> > </fanboy>
>
> About time too <g>. I've read (and quite enjoyed) perhaps three of
> Rankins's, and they mainly reminded me of a more absurdist and less
> mythology-rooted Tom Holt. Do you like his stuff?
Never read him. Who he? Is it that chap who writes the
naughty-knobbing-upper-classes stuff? Or am I thinking about somebody else?
Steve Dix
wrote:
>About time too <g>. I've read (and quite enjoyed) perhaps three of
>Rankins's, and they mainly reminded me of a more absurdist and less
>mythology-rooted Tom Holt. Do you like his stuff?
>
I've just reread "Expecting Someone Taller" and am plowing through
"Overtime".
=========================================================
http://www.snorty.net/ - The Internet's favorite Mini.
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/2706 - Minis, music, guitars
http://www.stevedix.de/ - Freiberuflicher Web programmierer in Koeln
http://www.mp3.com/simpletons/ - My old group on mp3. Now with CD.
http://stage.vitaminic.co.uk/the_simpletons/ - My Old groups MP3s
Rick Booth
> Rick Booth <richar...@umist.ac.uk> wrote:
>> About time too <g>. I've read (and quite enjoyed) perhaps three of
>> Rankins's, and they mainly reminded me of a more absurdist and less
>> mythology-rooted Tom Holt. Do you like his stuff?
>
> Never read him. Who he? Is it that chap who writes the
> naughty-knobbing-upper-classes stuff? Or am I thinking about somebody else?
No, I think you're probably thinking of Tom Sharpe (Wilt, Porterhouse
Blue, The Throwback etc).
Tom Holt is a humourous-fantasy writer, tending to work mainly with myth
and legend-based themes (from Beowulf to Greek gods to Wagnerian mythos),
and is quite good. He's one of those writers where I'm not sure why I
don't like him more than I do (how's that for praising with faint damns
<g>?), but I liked him enough that I bought quite a few of his books.
Less funny and wise than Pratchett (unsurprisingly, really), and with a
somewhat bitter edge, I think. Still well worth reading, and you should
have no trouble finding stuff in a library; he sells reasonably well over
here.
I think I'd recommend _Expecting Someone Taller_ if you fancy something
Wagnerian, _Who's Afraid of Beowulf_ for something more English, _Here
Comes the Sun_ for satire on beaurocracy, and my own favourite,
_Grailblazers_.
- rfb
--
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I have hardly ever known a mathematician who was capable of reasoning.
-- Plato
Mike Whitaker
> Tom Holt is a humourous-fantasy writer, tending to work mainly with myth
> and legend-based themes (from Beowulf to Greek gods to Wagnerian mythos),
> and is quite good. He's one of those writers where I'm not sure why I
> don't like him more than I do (how's that for praising with faint damns
> <g>?), but I liked him enough that I bought quite a few of his books.
> Less funny and wise than Pratchett (unsurprisingly, really), and with a
> somewhat bitter edge, I think. Still well worth reading, and you should
> have no trouble finding stuff in a library; he sells reasonably well over
> here.
He also writes excellent parody songs: see if you can get a hold of his
'Bitter Lemmings' songbook.
Mike Feguson
Paul Simpson <p_r_s...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9no0bb$8m6lr$1...@ID-70736.news.dfncis.de...
>
> attraction to things that are unique, or at least not quite like anything
> else. I might be wrong, but so far I haven't read anything else quite
like
> Rankin, and he has a definite style all of his own. Torpedo Daves
favourite
> bit in The Sprouts Of Wrath is when an alien race is invading Brentford, a
> floating camel (long story) almost collides with one of the invading ships
> and the captain yells "Those Bastards don't miss a trick!" - great stuff!
> I'd like to think that if I ever wrote a novel it would read like one of
Mr.
> Rankins. Laugh out loud stuff, for me at least. I've been reading his
> stuff for - ooh, what, eleven years now? - and he still keeps his ideas
> fresh, and has never really written a bad novel (although The Garden of
> Unearthly Delights was a bit iffy).
>
> </fanboy>
>
> --
> All the best,
>
> Paul.
>
To tie the thread back to guitars.... From the pen of Mr Rankin...
"When it comes to guitars, it can be said that it's all a mater of taste.
But when it comes to taste itself, it's a matter of good taste or bad. And
this is not matter of personal preference. Some things simply are better
than others, and some people are capable of making the distinction. When it
comes to electric guitars, the Fender Stat is king. For sheer elegance,
beauty and playing perfection, the Strat has never known equal. When it
appeared upon the music scene in 1954 musicians marvelled at its ergonomics,
its sonic versatility, its tuning stability and its pure pure tone. The
sleek new body form, developed from original Telecaster, featured the
legendary double cutaway, or twin-horn shape. The advanced tremolo, allied
to three single-coil pickups, allowed the player greater playing potential.
The Strat was capable of doing something new. And something wonderful.
One could spend all night singing praise to the Strat or indeed to composing
paeans to its inventor, the mighty Leo Fender. That Mr Fender never
received the Nobel Peace Prize during his lifetime and seems unlikely to be
canonized by the church of Rome just goes to show how little justice there
is in this world.
.
On a Strat you play rock. On a Strat you play the twenty-minute solo. And
if you cannot play the twenty-minute solo you should not step onto the stage
with a Strat strapped round your neck. Leave the Start to Hendrix. Leave
the Strat to Stevie Ray Vaughan...."
From "Sex and Drugs and Sausage Rolls".
I'm still working on my 20 minute solo... I could be some time.
Mike Ferguson
Paul Simpson
news:9nvpf4$tct$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> To tie the thread back to guitars.... From the pen of Mr Rankin...
And amen to all that! (says this particular Strat fan) ;-)
And also from Mr Rankin...
"Now it must be stated fairly and squarely, that Minn's Music Mine was a
proper guitar shop. A guitar shop in the grand tradition. The genuine
article. If asked to describe itself to some young and impressionable
customer-to-be and finding itself with the wish and ability to do so, it
might well have said something like this. In a rich American accent no
doubt.
'Hi there. My name's Minn's Music Mine and I'm a guitar shop. Like me
to show you around? Don't be shy. Step right up.
'Ok. So this is my door. Note the steel cage bolted across it. And
the signs. See these signs? "Stolen guitar? No thanks!" and "Beware guard
dog! Got the balls to break in? You won't have 'em when you break out!"
See all those exclamation marks? I am a security-conscious establishment!
'Now. Let's step inside. Mind the step there. Ok. Allow me to draw
your attention to the carpet. Note the cunning arabesques woven into its
quality fabric. These are musical notes. A carpet not dissimilar to this
once featured on Six Five Special. You never heard of Six Five Special?
You weren't even born? No, I guess not. Never mind.
'And you can't see any musical notes anyway? They're there. Under all
the stains and the cigarette burns and stuff. They're there! I'm telling
you. Now see here, these, to your right. Amplifiers. And speakers. Lots
of speakers. The tall ones are WEM Vendettas. You've never heard of WEM
Vendettas? Yeah, well, they're quite old. They're on special offer. Have
been for some years.
'But these are new. See these? Japanese guitars. You get the whole
works for less than £100. Axe, strap, lead, plectrum, amp, speaker,
play-in-a-day hand-book. The whole works. Bottom of the range, these guys.
We sell plenty. They're crap as it happens.
'What? Your mate has one? He says it's "excellent"? Fair enough.
'Ok. Now, careful where you stand, or you might step in a saucerful of
cigarette butts. You'll see quite a lot of those in here. All the saucers
are, you will note, full. And lying all around and about and amongst them,
see these? Coffee mugs. And in them. Precisely one quarter of an inch of
congealed black gunk. No more, no less. That's the way we do business.
'Why? Why what? Why all the full ashtrays and the coffee mugs with
exactly one quarter of an inch of congealed black gunk? *Why*? You're
asking me *why*? Well, that's what you have in guitar shops. That's *why*.
It's a tradition, or an old charter. Or something.
'Look, forget about the ashtrays. Come and see these. Here. All over
this wall. Polaroid photos. Rock stars. Rock stars past and present.
Mostly past, I guess. But they've all ben in here. You can see my owner,
Mr Minns, in many of them too. There's one of him with Charlie Watts. He
bought a practise pad in here once. Watts. Charlie Watts. You never heard
of Charlie Watts?
'Never mind. Now. Guitars. Do *we* have guitars. The racks here.
These are your "Spanish beginners". Boxwood. Narrow necks, so kids can get
their little fingers around them. And the rack up on the wall. Your
£200-plus acoustics. Up out of the way where the bloody kids can't get
their fingers around them. And these right up here. Top of the world, Ma,
as we say, is an original Les Paul Sunburst. The pride of my owner's
collection. He'd never sell it, of course. Check out the patina. And the
frets. See these frets? Tasmanian porcupine quill. And the inlay on the
finger-boards. Mother-of-pearl. You can almost taste the sustain. A Les
Paul original. Les Paul. *Les Paul*? You're standing in a guitar shop and
you have the gall to ask who is Les Paul? For Chrisakes, fells, I can put
up with so much and then no more! You have a crack at my carpet! You snub
my saucers! You poo-poo my polaroids!
'But Les Paul! What the hell did you come in here for anyway?
'The *Who*? There's a polaroid over there of Mr Minns being beaten up
by Keith Moon. Not that Who. What who then?
'Oh. I see. The who with the blue eyes and the blond hair. The
*Gandhi's Hairdryer World Tour '93* T-shirt and the tight blue jeans. The
who sitting on the stool playing the Stratocaster.
That who. Ah yeah. that who.'
'That who' was practising her guitar licks. If you're going to work in a
guitar shop, you must know your licks. And your riffs, of course. Your
licks and your riffs. If you can't wield your axe and blast out a passable
'Stairway to Heaven' or 'Sunshine of your Love', then forget it. Take the
checkout job at Tesco's.
Anna's licks were greatly admired locally. As were her riffs."
- From "Raiders of the Lost Car Park".
--
All the best,
Paul.
www.psimpson.net - Coming soon!
Steve Dix
<p_r_s...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 'Ok. Now, careful where you stand, or you might step in a saucerful of
>cigarette butts. You'll see quite a lot of those in here. All the saucers
>are, you will note, full. And lying all around and about and amongst them,
>see these? Coffee mugs. And in them. Precisely one quarter of an inch of
>congealed black gunk. No more, no less. That's the way we do business.
> 'Why? Why what? Why all the full ashtrays and the coffee mugs with
>exactly one quarter of an inch of congealed black gunk? *Why*? You're
>asking me *why*? Well, that's what you have in guitar shops. That's *why*.
>It's a tradition, or an old charter. Or something.
That's not a guitar shop. That's a rehearsal room.
And he forgot the beer can filled with a quarter-full of rancid beer
and precisely one dogend, which is specially kept for the sort of
character who makes himself out to be mates with the band so he can
drink their booze whilst they're on stage.